Is The Bike Industry Ripping Us Off? | GCN Show Ep. 565

[@gcn]

Do you agree with Gerard Vroomen? 🚲

[@KevinLopez-ht9br]

He avoided answering and misdirected almost blaming consumers.

[@spanishmarc]

He just wants to sell new bikes.

[@TheNewSchmoo]

The bike compaines tried to charge the most the market will bear and were wrong.

[@GeekonaBike]

I haven't bought a New bike for a decade, & I for sure won't buy a gravel/cross bike if I can't run cantis. PS my funniest bike right now is a 1970s road frame set up as a fixed gear gravel bike

[@Tethysmeer]

Open gravel frame for 3k 😅 a cfr696 costs 800 exkl. shipping and is extremely reliable.

[@CrashyMcSquirrel]

Next episode, invite a Yamaha R6 engineer and whatever bicycle engineer you want, and have the bicycle engineer explain to the motorcycle engineer why his best bicycle cost as much as an R6 which also has plenty of expensive metals, engineering, testing, racing support, on and on. I did something similar once and we were worried we'd have to get the motorcycle engineer some supplemental oxygen from the laughter.

[@dylan-5287]

That's not how capitalism works. They can charge what people are willing to pay. Rich people want a high end bike. They don't want an R6, especially with how shitty drivers are these days lol.

[@moopt7339]

EXACTLY! (looking at new XSR 900 at the moment:-)

[@paulhugo1623]

And…motorcycle model volumes vs bicycles. The bicycle industry is huge

[@chrisridesbicycles]

The high end bicycle is the same the world elite rides, the road motorcycle is not the same as a race motorcycle. It‘s not the same.

[@danielakerman8241]

@@chrisridesbicyclesthat’s incorrect on many levels. #1 your premium road bike is often NOT the same as what the pro Peloton is riding (even though it’s supposed to be). #2 The Yamaha R6 is substantially the same as the race bike of the appropriate category. Different tires maybe, but otherwise very similar. #3 the whole issue of being same as the race variant is irrelevant. The question being posed in the example above is one of cost of production vs price of sale. There is NO WAY ON EARTH bike manufacturers and parts suppliers can justify their prices based on cost of production, which Vroomen dishonestly spends a lot of time trying to say here.

[@jeffreystoutenborough2283]

I was hit by a car running a stop sign in 2021. To replace my 2018 Trek Emonda SL6 (original cost $3000) with equivalent weight and componentry cost $8000. I ended up having to live with my damaged bike, and am still fixing things 2 years later. BUT it is very difficult to find replacement parts (mechanical Ultegra, direct mount rim brakes, aluminum rims) because even though the prices have gone way up the bike industry has seemingly shut off the tap, forcing people to buy their [heavier and more expensive disc brakes] new marketing stuff. The LBS even told me I have no right to expect parts for a 5 year old bike. That's wrong on multiple levels.

[@gcn]

We hope you recovered from the hit! It can certainly be tricky to get like for like parts at the same price now. Have you had the bike checked over for damage? You don't want to risk more injury by riding on a damaged bike. LBS can find it hard to hold stock for older components. Perhaps try searching for a shop that focuses around everyday bike, they may hold better stock of a variety of components.

[@Emtbtoday]

Same as electric vehicles there disposable junk! Not to last longer than 5 years! Have your seen the video of the guy with the new 120k ev porche just now? He's trying to share awareness for the evs he's been offered 26k for a 120k 3 year old porche and the dealership told him they don't want it back so a 3rd party buy any car offered 26k for it! Shocking but bikes today are the same hench why they make them all carbon now to make sure they don't last!

[@matthew7419]

This is what makes me really angry. We might as well be buying iPhones at this point.

[@bigdarbs19]

I come from a production engineering background, there is no way £12,000 for a mainstream mass prodcution brand like Specialized can be justified. I agree with Gerard too.

[@nekekaminger]

It's called free market. If enough people are willing to pay that price, then it's justified.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Most big brands have had bikes over $10k for 15yrs. You're getting a lot more for your money these days too. $5k used to get you a WIRED SRM and $2200 got you very narrow Zipps that you had to baby down descents and do touch up truing fairly regularly if you were a timid descender or a heavy rider. Now $6000 bikes come with power meters and Zipps cheapest carbon wheel is $1400 and significantly better than their $2200 wheel of old. *Gotta keep in mind that mainstream bike brands are selling bikes to dealers that need to pay employees. Bikes were really inflating in price slower than they should have been which is why employee pay was so abysmal until the pandemic bike boom.

[@NoahStephens]

If people are willing to pay that price, then the price is justified. Just because YOU can’t afford something doesn’t mean it’s too expensive.

[@adambrickley1119]

​@@veganpottertheveganIts a while ago now i think 2006, i bought an emtry level Bianchi for £620. The shop gad the same Bianchis ysed in the tour fir 3k! To my eye back then they looked identical! All Bianchi blue.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@-alex-3724 they're selling tons of bikes over $5k when it was more like a $3k typical sale 10yrs ago. Cervelo is an anomaly because they've never had an $800 bike, even when they sold their aluminum Soloist. Trek still has a $999.99 road bike, Giant has a bike under $900. It's really not so bad. People just don't look at those bikes because they see so much carbon around and want carbon

[@mikekelly1771]

Got my 2012 Roubaix brand new for $3.5k. Same spec bike now is $8k. That's not inflation, that's greed.

[@martinsteele3259]

I bought a 2010 Giant TCR Advance w CF Tubular and a second set of aluminum clincher wheels and extra CF handlebars for $2400 Cdn. Freakin beautiful bike! I know of a person that has a newer Cervelo high end bike. $8000, my bike is prob equal other than the disc brakes and electronic shifting. There are great deals out there if you do not need the latest tech.

[@BbB-vr9uh]

I’m sure the new bike is better than the older one in various ways, that’s also 12 years of inflation coming in. But still - yeah that’s a huge difference.

[@phildunn1983]

I worked in aerospace advanced composite manufacturer for around 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they're making around 60 to 80% profit margin on those frames. Especially given the poor manufacturing standards and quality control that plagues the industry. In other words, they're taking the piss out of us.

[@Bultish]

well some of us must be buying, so as usual the we are taking the piss out of ourselves

[@xtremegopher]

I ride a $450 Chinese frame. I believe that big brands (which are also manufactured in Asia) have costs of twice that, but I struggle to Believe anything beyond that isn't just taking the piss.

[@e_mtb]

@@xtremegopher Do you mean they pay twice as much? Because if they produce their frames in asia and buy hundreds or thousands of them, they will pay much less, than you need to pay for a single frame kit. Of course they will pay for their own development in addition, but despite they want to make us believe, that they invent every bike from the scratch each year, there is nearly no difference to the previous year model most of the times, apart from changing a third-party component like a derailleur or other brakes ☺

[@xtremegopher]

@@e_mtb they have additional costs for warranties, QC, certifications etc that my frame avoided. I'm just putting 200% as the max cost I would find reasonable, I'd easily believe that you're right and their costs are even lower

[@cmathews1]

Margin after what costs and, crucially, before what costs? Gross margin to only get it produced? So excluding all the shipping to get it into markets? + Excluding all the costs of getting it to the retail network? + Excluding the costs that the retail network incur (rent, wages etc etc)? + Excluding all the head office costs (rent, wages, design, marketing)? + ?

[@joules531]

I remember, as a kid, lusting after the Campagnolo parts in the bike shop window. I was able to buy each component over time, knowing that it would fit my bike. And then, in time, I was able to order a custom frame and know that all the parts on my old bike would fit the new frame. Which meant that I ended up with a bike that was almost identical to those ridden by the top pros. In fact, I just had one good bike. And by varying those components, which were all interchangeable, I was able to race on the road, in time trials, hillclimbs, criteriums, and even on the track! In fact, I once won a hilly TT (using a 100 inch fixed wheel), beating a top local pro in the process, because the difference in weight and aerodynamic advantage, between his team issue road bike, and my old bike that I had cobbled together from whatever parts I had at the time, was small enough for me to actually have a chance of winning. Something that surely wouldn't happen now. How many teenagers could do that in 2023? You'd probably need a specific bike for all those activities, proper racing shoes, and race clothing, and might have to regularly buy new bikes in order to maintain competitiveness in a sport where there have been so many advances in technology. Bikes have become so expensive that competitors participating in grass roots cycle sport, at least here in the UK, are rarely aged under 40. Which is shocking when you think about it. The greed of the bike industry, fulfilled through both planned obsolescence and aggressive marketing, has turned what was once an affordable sport into one that is now so expensive that, at least at grass roots level, is much diminished, and perhaps unlikely to recover. And if you are thinking of racing? Well, let's put it this way... If we accept that there's every chance that you're going to be beaten by a less physically capable rider, who has enough money to buy a faster bike than yours, there isn't much point in racing any more, is there? I mean, if the result of a race is skewed in favour of those riders with significantly better bikes, and those bikes are only available to those riders with deep pockets, what's the point of that race in the first place? Indeed, if you do want to upgrade these days, you typically need to replace the entire bike. And if there's a specific part you need, that is no longer available? That's right - you need to buy yet another bike! Ridiculous, not just from the cost perspective but also from an environmental one too! So what's left? Lots of riding around, gravel, and bike packing, plus sportives (if you don't mind sometimes paying a fairly hefty wedge to take part). And this is the important bit: None of those activities need carbon frames, carbon wheels, or even disc brakes when you think about it. So, if you're aged between 16 and 40, want to get involved with cycling, and keen to have enough cash left over to pay for your ever rising rent, or indeed your pretty rubbish "money purchase" pension, the sensible thing is to avoid the hype, and just get yourself a decent used steel framed bike, with quality components, that might well last you a lifetime of happy cycling at very minimal cost. So just forget about actual racing, because (at least here in the UK, for normal people) it's dead. Just get a decent bike from the 80s or 90s, and go gravel riding, bike packing, or indeed save your sportive money by just organising your own group ride through social media, and enjoy the satisfaction of not being ripped of by the increasingly greedy bike industry. Your wallet will thank you.

[@laszlozoltan5021]

I could never see the point in racing to beat anyone else- I only race myself; no excuses there

[@joules531]

@@laszlozoltan5021 It's an interesting viewpoint I guess. But for me, and I suspect almost everyone involved in racing, we want to compare our performances with others. That's what competion is all about Certainly in road races, criteriums, and on the track, by aim was always to win, not just ride round. It's possibly different in time trials, where there are riders of mixed abilities, but I can't see how someone can just sign up for a time trial and just aim to compare their own performance against previous ones, simply because courses, and conditions are so variable. The only real comparison, surely, is to see how your own time compares to others. If you really want to compare your own performance with previous ones, your would have to use the same course, and pick days where the weather conditions, air pressure, temperature, and indeed traffic volumes, were exactly the same. If you genuinely want to measure your own specific performance then you'd be better off using an indoor bike set-up.

[@jean-paullanglois5452]

Moderns bikes are not fasters than thoses of 15 years ago, just way less expensive, put the good rider on it!!!!

[@CatManDoSocial]

I did the inflation calculator against my old bikes and the newer "equivalent" level of bikes and the difference was staggering. Far beyond what inflation would compensate for. I really appreciate you all touching on this because it really is a problem.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

I've owned quite a large number of +$10k bikes(either as a sponsored athlete or as a bike salesperson). Every one of those bikes before 2012 is a heap of junk compared to a $5k bike today. *Think about an early $5k WIRED SRM vs $300 crank arm power meters and very narrow, melting brake track pair of zipps for $2200 and quite good carbon wheels for +$1000 today. I'd also rather have modern Shimano 105 than 10sp Dura Ace for more money

[@peterwillson1355]

​@@veganpotterthevegan" Every one of those bikes is a heap of junk....." what utter bs you are talking, as usual .😂😂

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@Greatuesu-sg1br ok? How?😅 I've owned and passed on many bikes. But here's what I have left -Seven Axiom SG with couplers -Rim brake Cervelo P5(attached to the custom paint) and I'm likely buying Cervelo's next TT bike that's replacing the disc brake P5 that's getting long in the tooth -Canyon Grizl -4th Gen Domane with 12sp converted Red groupo -Chinese carbon cheapo 650+ hardtail with a Lauf Fork -Fuji Rakaan - First gen carbon Cervelo Soloist *If your one bike is better than all my bikes, great for you🤡

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@peterwillson1355 ok Petey🥳

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@Greatuesu-sg1br the Seven has rim brakes...sorta. I sold them because that bike is on my Wahoo and will never see pavement again. I also have a sizeable wheel collection I'm too ashamed of to list with a collection of nice hubs in a box waiting to get sold when I stop being lazy as they perpetually lose value because they're rim brake road hubs or 135mm mtb hubs with quick releases.

[@mortenjespersen7594]

Now, I truly love GCN, and I gobble up just about everything you put out there. That being said, it is true that you cover budget bikes, but all your cycling adventures are always on top of the line products. Maybe you should convince the sponsors to cross continents or climb mountains on good lower tier bikes. I believe that this could actually nudge the future in the right direction 😊❤

[@trovelemmanuel5627]

Thank you. I have gotten a bit detached from the GCN show because I don't think they speak to the average Joe riding all these super bikes. They talk about budget bikes but that's all it is, talk. It's why companies will keep selling bikes this price.

[@ellerybice3787]

Nudge this 💩!

[@Raven__70]

A £1500 Ultegra road bike in 2015 is now a 105 road bike & costs north of £3000 in 2023, I don't think there's much innovation to justify the price jump. The consumer is being ripped off in spades.

[@scottswahayone432]

I agee a road bike is a road bike is a road bike tech does not make it go faster however a MTB on the other hand has much more scope for refinement, in my humble opinion.

[@TheIndianaGeoff]

I agree. The tech has not changed so much. Gears, same. Disc brakes, decades old tech. Electronic group sets are new but that is a couple electronic stepper motors and some sort of connectivity, nothing new in the electronic control world. Frames? A tweak here or there but nothing new there. There is no reason manufacturer efficiency improvements shouldn't hold the prices steady or a little below inflation. Biking is a vanity sport for people with time and disposable income, that's what drives prices.

[@curtvaughan2836]

@@scottswahayone432 MTB has remarkably improved over the last few decades, especially with the advent of disc brakes, and refined suspension technology. Mountain bikes have really benefited from technological improvements, much more than road bikes - where innovation consists primarily of carbon fiber frames wedded with electronic shifting (which explains the resulting high prices of road bikes).

[@LaSombraa]

I almost bought a Pinarello bicycle for $12,000… then I realized, I could buy a freaking 2023 Ducati for that much money… bruh.

[@williamkeys5701]

There weren't many £1500 Ultegra bikes outside of maybe a Boardman in 2015. How do I know? I was in the market for a new bike and settled on an over £2000 Ultegra level bike. Which with the exchange rate was well north of $3000. In 2022, I purchased another Ultegra level bike and it was over $5000! That's around a 60% increase in pride in seven years. The move to electronic shifting and hydraulic disc brakes can account for some of that price jump but not all in my opinion.

[@bengarside79]

I remember when GCN was the disrupter.. now it’s part of the industry and is part of the hype and gravy train. I keep popping back every now and again to see if it’s still the same because I used to really love the content but Cade media and others kick its arse now!

[@trovelemmanuel5627]

Same here bro. I'm now listening to the show after about 3years. They got sucked into it now😢

[@gedheaton1415]

this 100%

[@hugomundo4826]

You don't need cutting edge technology to enjoy cycling to the max.

[@MacThreinfhir]

🎯

[@gcn]

Say it louder for those at the back 🙌

[@bugginout_net]

Been riding for 40 years and haven't had a "new" bike since I was a kid 😂

[@imjonathan6745]

@@bugginout_net are you still using that penny farthing bike? what do you mean 40 years...

[@bugginout-net]

I've had plenty of bikes in 40 years but never bought a new one out of the box. Why would I when people buy bikes, never use them and sell them for a fraction of sticker.

[@Jon0sterman]

I've been looking for around 4 months now, started with a £1500 budget, when I started looking at bikes for £3000 - £3300 I came to the conclusion it might be better to stick with my 13 year old mountain bike.

[@meibing4912]

Had my old Roubaix for 15 years. So ride on! Got a new high end Yoeleo R12 build this year (made myself) for $4.5K w/the new Ultegra Di2 12 and a great 60mm set of carbon wheels plus some very high end components (spec mirror power saddle, integrated carbon bars, Wahoo clip etc.). Super nice bike - a serious upgrade. For $300 per year its absolutely worth it IMHO. YMMV.

[@Mavisto2]

Cycling became trendy and just about everyone in the cycling world saw a bunch of suckers. Not just bikes but clothes, shoes, tyres, I can’t think of anything that wasn’t exploited. They don’t charge what it costs plus some profit, they charge the highest price they can get away with.

[@jevgeniardassov]

Agreed on clothes and kits, prices are outrages for a good cycling kit. 300-400 for a MAAP jersey or a bib, no way there is that mich material nor development…

[@glyndonwakeman7420]

aka 'the new golf'

[@michealofloinn2539]

A lot of people with plenty of money got into cycling as a pastime and for fitness, plus the Bike to Work scheme incfated the money spent on bikes.

[@petebrookes8089]

yes - and we keep letting them

[@DMurdock]

You are absolutely right. I see people wearing expensive lycra for their 15 minute commutes. It's crazy!

[@FrankSchulenburg]

Big kudos for acknowledging that you're also part of the problem. Watching a KZbin show is a lot about trusting the presenters and what they tell you. I feel incredibly well informed when watching Global Cycling Network. A couple months ago, I signed up for GCN+ and now I'm thinking "What took me so long?" - Anyway, I very much appreciate your work and all the bits and pieces of information I'm learning when watching this channel. Keep being awesome and all the best from Northern California!

[@josephtodd1173]

Everything in cycling is too expensive😢

[@gazzas28]

I agree. But I also think that we consumers need to take some blame for allowing it to happen by paying the silly prices

[@87solarsky]

​@@gazzas28 Well, that's simply too generalising: There are affluent people who don't mind paying loads for the best stuff, and then everyone else who just scratch their head over not being able to get the price-value they used to get years ago.

[@jimsonjohnson3761]

Start order sensah or Ltwoo group sets and other Chinese direct stuff and you save a lot of money and not worried about actually riding your bike.

[@gazzas28]

@@87solarsky and with that greedy bike company's have forgotten the roots of cycling. A mode of transport for the working man. Well not forgotten but got very comfortable with affluent people allowing themselves to be ripped off and in the process pricing the working man out of the hobby/sport. Especially company's like Shimano who charge nearly a grand for 12 speed 105 then have the cheek to claim it's a group set for the people!! I won't eat for a month but I'll have an extra cog...

[@Relevant_Irrelevance]

wait for the comments telling you that youre just too poor

[@bknery]

Yeah. I have some friends that were exited to start cycling but were scared away when they started to count how much they would have to spend on a bike, then helmet, cycling shoe, pedal, clothing, etc. The barrier of entry has always been high, but lately it is getting higher.

[@nickc4716]

1. Hydro disk breaks can be found on very budget end MTBs so it’s difficult to see this as an innovation we have to pay for. There seems to be a road bike premium applied. 2. I do wonder if schemes like the uk cycle to work scheme, have emboldened manufacturers in their pricing as they know consumers will often factor this tax discount into their budget.

[@williamkeys5701]

UK market isn't driving prices worldwide. They're way up in the US as well. What once could be had for around $3000 now costs $5000. Electronic shifting and electronic disk brakes make up a lot of the increase but I doubt all of it.

[@nickc4716]

@@williamkeys5701 yeah, I see that. I just have no sense of how prolific similar schemes are globally. Perhaps just my cynicism that assumes if the government offer a tax break the corps will take a slice somehow, before the consumer see the benefit.

[@russty81ify]

And I thought the MTB market was bad....jeez

[@gcn]

That's true, although hydro discs have been around for a long time within the MTB world but are a relatively new thing to road bikes. STI shifters have more moving parts and are in a much more compact system than a flat bar brake, this does cost more to produce. Would you like to see a return to rime brakes in a bid to keep costs low?

[@devincorboy8638]

It's Absolutely epic saying "I guess we are part of the problem." It's great to see you guys contemplating different perspectives on the subject. Keep up the great work! It's appreciated and necessary. Thanks...

[@PRH123]

Yes it was a good admission. If they put a pound in the tip jar for each time they use the words "carbon superbike" in an episode, there would be a lot in there... It's a rare day when they review anything mid or low level, and when they do it's usually a comparison to a carbon superbike, where of course it's found wanting....

[@randalbladel2817]

I will continue to ride my very old bikes and keep them running by myself as long as I can find the parts. Thankfully the old components are quite durable. I simply can’t justify spending the huge prices for bikes that likely won’t last and in any case will be “obsolete” in a few years. I am especially annoyed by the proprietary parts specific to the manufactures that will probably be unavailable in five years or less.

[@peteracain]

This is what happened to me. 6 year old BMC SLR01. Couldn't buy replacement seat clamp. Propriety components are the mechanism these companies force bike upgrades. I went a standard component titanium road bike since with the knowledge that these components will be around until I stop cycling. Couldn't be happier

[@moopt7339]

well said

[@gcn]

Great to hear that you are keeping your old bikes going! It's a great thing to do! How old are your bikes?

[@paulhugo1623]

Brands and industry intentionally change standards… engineered obsolescence

[@fk8002]

Long live my cad 8

[@luiacuhe]

As a "bike nerd" I love to see new teach and how the industry is pushing to improve, love to learn about the mechanics and the engineering on developing those new products, but also understand that some of those are intent to use in high competitive level and perhaps not intent for the average Joe like myself. I think understanding your level and how in reality the mechanics and bikes work, you start to distinguish between market hype and really innovation. As a home bike mechanic a lot of people ask me about bike parts and is there when you realize the vast majority of people don't understand or take the time to investigate and learn about bike parts, they just want the latest and if possible more expensive parts "just because" but finally don't understand if it will improve your ride quality or your performance at all. A good balance between practical and looks according to your budget, a middle ground, that is different for each individual. So with all that I don't blame the industry they have to make a profit overall, I blame the consumer who doesn't take the time to educate himself and learn if the product suit their needs and just goes by what they see. As Gerard points that is why there are luxury cars because there will be always somebody that will buy it, and if not, they don't sell them anymore.

[@frankdelarosa9527]

The industry absolutely pushed to make rim brake 'obsolete". Now, they're saying "that's" what's causing the increased prices. Laughable. Give me a break.

[@dominicbritt]

If you look at bike sales over the last 4 years, you'll see that what he's saying is correct.

[@frankdelarosa9527]

@@dominicbritt All I'm saying is the industry pushed for disc brakes to be the defacto standard. It WANTED to kill off rim brakes. So, bike companies began to offer less and less rim brake options. I don't believe that was a natural/organic transition. And of course, once they started sending pro teams disc brake bikes, people are then going to want to ride what the pros ride. But, the notion that disc brakes are the root of these jacked up prices? lol.

[@jonass1355]

@@dominicbrittHe might be correct, but that’s a result of their own choices, ref the OP´s point. The existing costumer base for mech+rim is well stocked up on parts for a long time ahead and the remaining market potential from new customers, is completely cannbalized by the industry so actively pushing disc and electronics. They have painted themselves into a corner, quite simply, and its now at the point where it has to get messy before it can improve. But it will never improve if the industry isn’t willing to learn from their own experiences, like this 3T-guy. If you can point at the problem, but refuse to do something about it, then you have no one else to blaim…

[@bugginout_net]

Yet you could buy an aluminium, mans mountain bike from GT under £500 in 2009 with hydraulic discs fitted out the box...

[@swazi5]

Rim brakes suck

[@matteo.ceriotti]

I was positively surprised that you recognised GCN could be part of the problem of expensive bikes. I think what you could start doing, is using cheap bikes for all your videos on how to cycle. I recall Ollie made a video on how to cycle-commute using a top-end bike. Even you, Simon, made a video recently on doctors prescribing cycling in your Pinarello Dogma, and said "probably they won't prescribe you this bike..."

[@Gamebreaker08]

GCN doesn't care, they got theirs.

[@dylan-5287]

No one wants to see that. Victoria's secret tried the same thing, they went back. People want to see the high end stuff that they don't plan on buying anyway.

[@Semeyaza]

@@dylan-5287 I can live with both. Sure, show us the latest and greatest, but also show us nice rides with "normal" bikes, affordable kits, and stress out how to make your ride live longer with proper BASIC care. Not with "let's just put 5K pounds wheels to upgrade the 4K pounds wheel we used fro barely a year".

[@aaronhill7599]

Bought a fancy new carbon bike, electronic shifting, all the bells and whistles, but I very intentionally saved money by opting for rim brakes. They work fine. But I get grief about them from other cyclists. “What if you’re riding in the pouring rain down a mountain at night?” Too often we buy tech that regular amateur riders like myself will never need. We pay for a Lotus so we can go on comfy Sunday drives.

[@gcn]

You make a great point! We're not all pros and we don't all need the best tech in the world. If rim brakes work for you then that's great! Don't let other riders bully you into buying anything you don't want 🙌 We can't remember the last time we rode down a mountain in the dark and rain either 😉

[@alienaudaxer9827]

I've ridden a 1000m alpine descent at night in the rain with rim brakes and survived to tell the tale.

[@brotherfranciz]

How ironic talking about what you need but opting for electronic shifting... 😂 I rode through rain multiple times over the past two weeks and really appreciate the disc brakes on my bike, which happens to also have electronic shifting, which from my personal experience makes NO difference versus my mechanical shifting bike with disc brakes.

[@2wheelsrbest327]

@@alienaudaxer9827 Ok I will admit it I am an old boy and I too have ridden some of the big climbs on rim brake bikes. But as for coming down I have worked so hard getting to the top I just roll back down enjoying the view.

[@sharonlynn-weese5293]

I just bought a 'new to me' road bike with rim brakes. Weighs 14 pounds. Lets see the same frame with disc brakes. I have cycled with rim brakes for over 35 years prior to disc brakes. Never had an issue with stopping or been afraid I couldn't stop. Yes I have a couple bikes with disc also but they sure aren't as light!

[@MrAppoline]

Four years ago I bought a new Pinnacle Arkose D2 for under £1K. Excellent hydraulic Tiagra disc brakes, 2x10 Tiagra chainset, mudguard eyelets and room for 45c+ tyres and 650B wheels. Got me off road and so much fun. Got a second set of decent alloy wheels and easy to switch between on and off-road. Just checked and the latest version is still available for

[@WarHammerWH]

Two important points that I do agree with: 1. It really becomes a problem when good quality affordable bikes become prohibitively expensive and 2. If there are people willing to spend 5 figures for a bike, then the manufacturers are going to continue making them. If the demand is there the offer will be there and the price will be set according to it.

[@Shadowboost]

Agreed. But don't start complaining when people stop buying and you're about to go out of business

Eventually, the Chinese industry will come to the rescue of amateur cycling.

[@fabianbinder3681]

These are capitalist companies, too. They are not charities.

[@dylan-5287]

​@@Shadowboostpeople won't stop buying the high end bikes, that's where the money is. They may stop caring about producing low and mid grade stuff though when many can't afford it anymore.

[@gcn]

Having good bikes at and entry price is a vital part of making cycling accessible, we hope that this level of bike doesn't disappear. Do you think that If prices reduced we would loose those people that are wanting to send big money?

[@rohansully584]

I don't want electric shifting, I don't need disk brakes. Just give me good quality, lightweight (I'm happy with Aluminium!), and don't stuff me around.

[@rangersmith4652]

When a second-tier road bike costs as much as a Tiger Sport 660, and a basic road bike costs a monthly mortgage payment, the bike industry is well on its way to collapsing under its self-inflicted weight. If people are unwilling to buy rim brake bikes, as Mr. Vroomen states, it's mostly because the industry, including its social media cronies, are telling them they must have disk brakes. It's similar for carbon fiber, motorized shifting, tubeless tires, etc. The demand for such new bike tech is not inherent demand; it's induced demand.

[@fredjohnstone7027]

I thought your discussion about the bike industry was excellent. Fortunately, I have the wherewithal to purchase a high-end bike. My 25-year-old steel lugged Pinerello still works great but was showing its age. My 1-year-old Moots road bike with Campi components and carbon fiber wheels is a dream to ride. I opted for disc brakes, which I love, although I have not had to work on them yet. I stuck with mechanical rather than electronic shifters because of their reliability. That having been said, I recently took a friend around to a variety of bike shops and ended up getting a screaming deal on a road bike that was $1200. My main concern for him was fit. I would say that remains a concern for entry-level bike byers because many stores are having to dedicate to one brand and finding the right geometry can be difficult, especially for people who are unfamiliar with the importance of bike fit.

[@lucasdario3928]

Decathlon seems to be the only company that still cares about making sports affordable. And I'm not saying that they're "the good guys", but famous bike brands are almost unaffordable, even more if you are not from a developed country with a stable and powerful currency...

[@gcn]

Decathlon is a great example of a company bringing cycling to the masses at an affordable price. Do you worry it's the middle ground that is getting lost?

[@lucasdario3928]

Probably, there are some entry level gear, but after that is just expensive. Gerard says that you don't need to buy a Rolls Royce, but the problem is that there are just Rolls Royce-like brands in cycling, the message of making cycling accessible is getting each year more and more far from the truth... I bought an entry level bike from Decathlon, the Triban RC100 in 2021, and barely could upgrade it, definitely a little frustrating...

[@mikebollom1784]

I’m relatively new to biking and give GCN many Kudos for their excellent programming which has and continues to keep me motivated to keep riding. Some have commented that GCN focuses and promotes to much on new tech, in which I completely disagree. These listeners for some reason are not paying too much attention to the content being presented. Overall, I believe that the content on GCN is very well balanced covering a broad spectrum of cycling information for all levels of cyclists. Keep up the excellent programming GCN.

[@tomholdsworth6055]

If GCN thinks that top bikes are too expensive, you can choose to cover more affordable options and stop being part of the hype.

[@larrylem3582]

Yeah, GCN only rides expensive bikes...except when they're making fun of the lowest of the low-end bikes.

[@williamko4751]

What about the so called mid range bicycle costs $5,000

[@elliottso6949]

to be fair they are like top cycling presenters, what do expect them to ride 105 mechanical ? my $2500 kinesis 4s regularly overtakes people om dura ace and top tier aero bikes, but its all the same for what you can afford, good point like there are porsches vs toyotas, does the same thing but no one is forcing you to buy are Porsche@@larrylem3582

[@Frostbiker]

GCN needs to pay the bills and no affordable bike manufacturer has the marketing budget to pay GCN to showcase their products. Other more modest channels cover such brands.

[@Qlicky]

Spot on. All they ride are bikes that most people will never be able to afford. And then they have the audacity to even speak about rip offs.

[@naf2579]

SRAM is the biggest offender in the industry. Pretty much eliminated all of their high end mechanical groups. There can't be demand if it's not even available. We didn't "choose" xdr, wireless shifting, and disc brakes they made that choice for us.

[@christoingram]

I love that there’s no love lost for bike manufacturers, they have burnt the goodwill of the consumer. Hearing Vroomen try to justify the prices due to needless ’innovation’ just sounds like the wolf explaining why it’s great that it’s been let into the sheep paddock.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

What innovation is useless? They're making marginal gains that have diminishing returns per dollar. That's true for nearly all goods. Also, the tech trickledown is much faster than most industries.

[@gazzas28]

@@veganpotterthevegan he didn't say innovation is useless, he said needless...

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@gazzas28 most everything we have is "needless". We don't "need" electricity as the bulk of humanity made do without it. It's still a mindless comment though

[@gazzas28]

@@veganpotterthevegan needless in the sense that all that money and r&d goes into innovation for gains with a very small margin of improvement for the end user that it's not worth paying for. Nothing wrong with mechanical but we have electrical shifting. Nothing wrong with tubes but we have sealant? What does those two innovations do the previous two don't that make cycling so much more advanced?

[@moopt7339]

@@gazzas28 they would say those 2 innovations give you 7 seconds over 40km TT with 52km/h average speed. 😘

[@michaelscott6316]

Don't really need a video of that question as the answer is a definite yes .anything to do with cycling whether it's a £200 castelli top made to fit a small child or a 5.5k specialized with entry level crap kit

[@beatenbytheclown]

The car Homer designed was call The Homer, not the 12 yards long, two lanes wide, 65 ton Canyonero

[@anthonyaltieri5652]

In fairness to Si, it DOES resemble the Canyonero in being huge and bulky, and potentially not the most maneuverable thing on the road. But it also resembles the Homer in being way over-engineered and... ugly. It's just missing the "rack and peanut" steering. But yes... two videos where he named the wrong fictitious car. ;-)

[@thomashill5042]

I hope someone got fired for that blunder.

[@Shr3dward]

THANK YOU! How could Si make such a rookie error?

[@gcn]

Too much riding not enough Simpsons we think 👀

[@thomashill5042]

@@gcn kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIKrY6WjhppgrM0si=iK0HBlSxRXKC9Yy-

[@pauldamdam8670]

25 years ago a top level racing bike was in the $5000 area. Now $15,000 for something almost the same with a few change worth $1000-2000 at most.

[@davependragon1]

When I tell people that my bike cost £3000, the vast majority are stunned into disbelief, No one that I know, that are not cyclists would not pay more than £250.00 for a bike, and even then they think it's too much, and they are right, why should a bike cost more than a car? A car has many thousands of intricate moving parts, a bike has less than 100.

[@stevemawer848]

Your £3000 bike is the equivalent of an £80,000 car. How many people would buy a car that expensive? If they're paying £250 for a bike, they probably wouldn't pay more than £3000 for their car. If you can afford it and want it, buy it, if you can't, don't. I don't have a mega-expensive watch, and some of them cost far more than my car.

[@peterwillson1355]

No, £250 is way too low for a bike. Let's not go from one extreme to the other.

[@curtvaughan2836]

@@peterwillson1355 As is 3000 for a new car ...

[@peterwillson1355]

@@curtvaughan2836 I never said 3000 for a new car was realistic.

[@peterwillson1355]

@bonbon3647 Exactly...I mean, my bikes each have 104 ball bearings, not including the pedals...

[@nicholasp3158]

The question I would have liked Vroomen to answer is this : How is it that Chinese manufacturers can sell a frameset for a fraction of the price of the main brands ? ( Elves, Winspace etc ) Of course the quality may not be the same, but I believe these companies are proving the point that the main brands are taking the piss ! The same goes for carbon wheels. STOP RIPPING US OFF !

[@danielv6954]

Just watching the GCN show, all good, everything goes by smoothly, prices are what they are, Si's lack of ironing is something I can always support, something about lightning, then Dan drops a bomb "we don't need botox using this lightning", without batting an eye. I mean, where do you get them from, I LOLed hard (publicly, in a hotel lobby, watching GCN using a headset - I can only imagine what people were thinking). Great show guys!

[@chriscole4149]

Loved the interview! Vroomen should be on more often. Yes, if the demand for expensive bikes has caused the industry to abandon cheaper bikes, then we are reaping what we sow.

[@beatenbytheclown]

Would love to see the financials of the manufacturers. Whilst their prices are crazy if selling bikes was such a profitable business surely there’d be publicly traded big iconic brands just like cars. As the only person in my family into cycling I can tell you people that don’t follow the sport can’t name a single bike or component maker. Though anecdotally every time I stop at the cafe in Richmond park in London it never ceases to amaze me that there’s a plethora of the latest and greatest on display.

[@peterwillson1355]

You said it: "On display". I cycle round the park, I don't go there to pose. I usually go after dark to avoid the crowds , too.

[@dylan-5287]

Most of the big bikes brands are owned by gigantic conglomerates like accell or Vista. Pretty slow growth lol. This isn't a fast growing industry in comparison despite how pissed people are about prices. The reality is inflation is absolutely messed up right now and it's getting worse.

[@alexandercanneyt8484]

the problem with the bike industry is that it actually that everything is evolving extremely rapidly. If you look at what top tech 3/4 years ago looks to nowadays premium high end, it's drastically being marked as old fashioned. there is still nothing wrong with a simple mechanical cable that works under any circumstance. the whole market advertises this as speed for sale but it is just you putting your money in their advertising. i can assure the dreambike of today will have another successor lurking around the corner in only a few months time. tip: bikes are tools not purses

[@cstewart3671]

There will always be people that buy expensive bikes….. because they can! Same with cars! There’s a posing value attached! I’m excluded from that category as I’m still enjoying riding my 8 year old Synapse 😊

[@Shadowboost]

I don't have any bike less than 8 years old, and I still prefer them to 95% of what's available today

[@gcn]

That's true! Top prices aren't going anywhere, we just want to avoid losing the middle ground. Sounds like a great bike, you must have some big memories from that bike? 👀

[@herculesrockefeller8969]

The GCN dream team of Si and Dan has returned! I bet a lot of people would like to buy mechanical groupsets and rim brakes, but the industry has removed those options, thereby forcing you into buying the more expensive electronic and discs. They also have introduced proprietary things like cockpits, seatposts, internal cable routing, etc. All more expensive. The bike industry has been ripping people off for several years, now they seek sympathy. Good luck with that, you deserve what you are getting, bike industry.

[@odiewan67]

Honestly, I think there are a lot of factors leading bike being so expensive. At the risk of dating myself, upon graduating from university and landing my first good paying job (~circa 1999), I purchased a custom steel frame ($1500) and a top end Shimano gruppo and some nice wheels for a total of ~$3000. It was a very nice race bike. I can't get a Dura Ace bike that is as fancy, relatively speaking, for less than 3x that much. Factors like inflation, marketing conjuring demand for high end frames and components, a certain amount of greed are pushing the industry that way. But I think we should also keep in mind we just went through not just an epidemic, but a PANDEMIC that killed 7 million people (WWII caused about ~53 million for comparison) and fundamentally changed the world. It caused global economic pandemonium. Does everyone remember the world wide supply chain disruptions? The world is still reeling from the pandemic and I imagine it will for some time to come. I totally agree w/ everyone's worry about the accessibility to cycling and not just racing. Cycling is essential for so many cultures to survive and thrive, and I think we should all work towards lowering the entry level to cycling.

[@gcn]

Some great points here! Thanks for commenting, the industry has certainly been hit hard by the pandemic in both a positive and negative way. Bike brands are struggling and this may be forcing them to push the prices to maximise there profits (as a mean of surviving). Do you see the prices coming down as the global economy starts to settle?

[@odiewan67]

@@gcnI certainly hope so. But unrestrained greed seems to be in fashion in the US. Seems that none of the predictions of economists have come to pass, so I think any speculation on my part (engineer, cyclist) is worthless. The world is still changing. I do think some of hype about the fanciest new tech, like tubeless, carbon everything, electronic shifting and to a lesser extent, disk brakes is becoming apparent. I was going to try tubeless, but it's way to fiddly to bother with. I think disk brakes need more development to make it more reliable (ie: reduce squealing). Cars used to have issues w/ good braking w/o squealing/howling. I'm sure the bike industry will sort that out. And all that development costs money, sooooo...

[@mitch_smith]

Mitch Docker was an absolute Champ chasing El Diablos break away. Thoroughly enjoy his ability to rope everyone he passes along the way into the video. His first name isn't half bad either!

[@DCassidy42]

The silly thing is people associate more money with more performance. I'm happy to pass someone who is lacking in fitness on their dura ace di2 aero bike on my 14 year old rim brake bike that I built myself with scavenged parts.

[@martyjbrown]

But they're also happy on their bike. So, all good.

[@gcn]

Great point! You can ride upgrades too... you don't need to jump to the newest tech 👀

[@mrjones9494]

Thank you for listening to the comments from last week and taking and insightful and balanced view into the bike industry, very enjoyable and interesting discussion

[@woodywoodverchecker]

The car Homer Simpson designed in episode 7F16 (Season 2 Ep. 15) is not the Canyonero. That one was introduced seven years later in episode 5F10 (Season 9 Ep. 15).

[@geoturcotte]

Yes that one was just called the Homer.

[@dianavotaw8027]

I love watching the show. Usually while I’m doing press-ups (push-ups actually) I say you are helping the bike industry getting more people involved and interested. The content is just plain fun and entertaining

[@Omeiden]

Kudos to Si for asking some real questions!

[@cath0dez]

totally, this could've been another ad, but I was surprised he was asking question that really put the interviewee on the spot. kudos

[@Omeiden]

exactly what i expected also@@cath0dez

[@gcn]

Si doesn't shy away from the big questions 🙌

[@obidavekenobe]

❤️The cost. First you have to buy a bike, then you buy a helmet, then fancy garb, clippless pedals, bike computer, bike specific tools (including but not limited to headset and bottom bracket bearing press and derailer alignment tools), over-“SI”zed sun glasses, power meter, light weight version of everything you bought before, AERO everything…. Another bike … and the N+1 rule constantly haunts you throughout your fitness endeavors. But don’t worry, you’ll always have GCN to encourage your every purchase along the way👍 Even if your partner disagrees.❤️

[@Liryc19]

You can get a full brand new force groupset for around 1.5k, wheels and tires, add 2k , even if my math is very approximative and I'm missing a lot of things, here's no way the 3T frame costs 5.5k to end up selling for 9k total... What am I missing ? Edit cause I missed something in my comment. The price of frame kits is completely ridiculous, most times. You could buy a complete bike on the frame you want for less than just the frame, on some brands website... You then can't even do the bike build yourself to save on costs

[@stevemawer848]

Regarding saving costs by DIY; you can't expect to build a car bu buying the parts from the dealer and buidling it yourself for anything like as cheaply as you can buy the built car, so why should bikes be different? The price of a frame has to include the R&D costs, not just the labour and materials in making the thing, which is where economies of scale apply - expensive frames are expensive because they're low volume items.

[@thekeytoairpower]

​@stevemawer848 I built a TCR with di2 disks and zipp wheels in 2019 for less than what a similar factory bike cost... not even counting money saved by not doing the changes I would have to mod the factory bike to taste (tan sidewalls, aeor bars, specialized saddle), so yeah it can be done. It is even easier to beat factory prices post COVID. The car analogy is not particularly accurate. It is more like building a PC or an AR 15... order the parts you want and put it together. The only thing you need is the correct tools and the know how. Or you can take parts to the lbs and they will do it for you. In Colorado Springs that job was quoted at $150.

[@jw3028]

It’s a bicycle with pedals. The only reason why they go for that much is people trying to keep up with the Jones’s.

[@Mrpdan67]

Thank you GCN team for the opening clip with Jay. You said you would and you did ❤. My 15 year old keeps telling me “it’s sick”. Which I’m told is a good thing. Jay was a complete legend. Thanks again and see you there next year.

[@gcn]

Jay is a legend 🙌 You're 15 year old is correct, the GCN Show is sick! 🤙 We would love to get your guys on a future intro! Thanks for coming to say hi to Jay and the team, what did you make of Rouleur Live?

[@Mrpdan67]

"would love to get you guys on a future intro" 😁stop it, you can't start throwing hope out there like that. I thought the show was fantastic this year, more space, great stands and the panel discussions were excellent. One of the highlights (if not the main highlight) was the chat with the 3 winners of Paris Roubaix. It was standing room only and goes to show that womens racing is hugely popular. I also then pestered Alison Jackson for a photo and chat. Another superstar. 👍 @@gcn

[@henrygoleau]

Thanks GCN for doing this follow-up on bike prices. Comparing the bike industry to the auto industry (Rolls-Royce analogy) makes sense from a general perspective of supply vs demand/luxury goods vs what you can afford and cheaper options. I'd contend that bikes, for those of us who use them as an athletic vehicle (including racing), become more than just a bike. When you're a (committed) cyclist, the bike (warning: big cliché coming...) becomes an extension of your body. That makes the bike an irrational object where, if you perceive it to be inferior to what your competition rides, or what the pros in the peloton ride, you feel like you're robbing yourself of some element of performance. Granted, marketing helps ("15% stiffer, 20% lighter than last year's model!"). Even though when I used to race (amateur road from the late 90's to the mid-2000's) and rode the best gear equivalent to TdF equipment, I still was no better than a couple of guys in my category who were riding down tube shifter steel bikes. Bottom line is there is an irrational element to bikes that I don't think happens with cars and other "commodities" because of that personal relationship with the object. I think that's where a lot of the customer frustration might be coming from with the outrageous prices. That and the fact that an "entry level" bike is $ 5,000.

[@christocan4710]

I‘d say yes. The problem though is independent reporting. For example the new Canyon Aeroad I ordered has so many quality control issues that it is almost ridiculous for any price. In addition there is very little customer service. Long waiting and absolutely no technical expertise. Sadly also GCN has it’s part in all this. Wish they would try to be more independent in the future.

[@AlanLyne]

They've never reviewed a bike. They admit it is a showcase and sponsored. Unlike other media outlets

[@davidcraig2532]

GCN have very few of their own opinions they are allowed to air. Their brand sponsors pay their bills, so the have them over a barrel

[@gcn]

We only work with brands that we like and use products that we would recommend to family and friends. We don't ever get paid to say things we wouldn't want to say so there's no barrels involved. Cheers, Si

[@CatManDoSocial]

I had a similar experience with a Canyon (and their support, good grief, it was horrible) and will never buy from them again.

[@davidcraig2532]

@@gcn would you bite the hand that feeds when it is justified though? For surely that has consequences as a paid sponsor. I think most people realise, if an income stream is from a particular place, and you rip on them justifiably, they aren't gonna keep that income stream going. Basic business economics. You're sponsored because their expense in the sponsor is expected to give them greater returns through PR, which doesn't happen with negative feedback. Nothing against GCN. But anyone out there with brand sponsorship, as a consumer, you know that there is now a high level of bias, as it is no longer fully rounded, unrestricted and independent reporting.

[@thedronescene7474]

I am willing to pay 10K or more for a handmade bike in the USA or Europe, but I won't pay the same amount for a bike manufactured in China. Trek used to offer a USA-made Madone, but it was discontinued and relocated to China or Taiwan, resulting in increased costs instead of a decrease. This seems like greed to me. Also, inflation is nothing more than a tax on the middle class.

[@alansmith2593]

I prefer the videos about riding bikes; they cement how much fun riding bikes is and they inspire me to get out and ride. Also, I am a bit easily persuaded to buy shiny new bike bits so i try to avoid those hot tech videos as deep down, i know i don't need new stuff. As long as its safe and working. I like to try and live buy the mantra, the best bike is the one i have right now. I appreciate you may receive part of your funding through hot tech videos but where ever you can; please keep the just riding bikes videos coming. Great show woop

[@stephenlukyn2138]

Wow , what a “me” statement

[@gcn]

We'll never stop making videos about the love of riding a bike. That's what drives us all at GCN ❤ We wanted t highlight the issue and help shed some light on the situation. Where would you like us to send the team next? We're itching to get back in the saddle!

[@alansmith2593]

Thanks team I think my most searched item would be GCN epic ride :) How bout a trip to Cornwall. You could come and have a bash at four mile hill Kom. I think one of your mates Opi features pretty hi up on the leaderboard of that awesome climb. There’s an amazing vegetarian place called Potegar near by too

[@alansmith2593]

I just had a light bulb 💡 how about you cycle a route that encompasses all the best climbs between GCN mega base and lands end? Cheddar, Porlock tol road, Hey Tor, four mile hill. It would be epic. You could catch train back from Penzance too.

[@alexandresilva8233]

What amazes me is that top end versions of road bikes are more expensive than some mtb’s that have front and rear suspension (which should add some 2k eur on top end models) and everything else is more or less similar in cost. Another amazing thing is that if we buy at retail price (not even discounted from online shops) all the components of an SL8 Tarmac or Emonda Slr it’s still cheaper than buying the complete bike, when just a few years if you wanted to build your bike vs complete from shop you’d pay a lot more. And this doesn’t happen on mid to low range, where complete bikes are (as they should) cheaper than a la carte builds. They’re definitely taking advantage of doctors and lawyers 😂

[@RYTHMICRIOT]

I made my my first major bike purchase in 2018. My budget was $3500. I thought that was enough for a top spec bike. Boy was I wrong.

[@stevemawer848]

But your budget was certainly enough for a "more than good enough" bike.

[@gcn]

Nice work on your first major bike purchase, $3500 still gets you a great bike! We hope it's fired you up for many adventures!

[@mnbv5555cxz]

Really good discussion with Vroomen. More interviews on the GCN show! Love the content

I believe the price hikes of the last years are mostly due to the gentrification of cycling and of amateur sport in general. Just have a look at the 20-year trend of the registration fees for the marathons and other foot races.

[@Ginger_Biker-eo2lr]

The bike industry is no different than any other capitalist industry. They rely on great advertising (GCN) to easily persuade consumers (suckers) to keep buying new, shiny things. They tell us the new, shiny things are better, faster, and sexier. You then see yourself pedaling down the road better, faster, and sexier, so you justify the exorbitant price and buy the overpriced shiny thing. Then your overpriced cranks explode or your shifters don't take a charge, or your carbon frame "gravel" bike cracks. We are repeatedly told that we NEED disc brakes, electronic shifting, carbon frames, etc. in order to be a happy bicyclist. (Thanks GCN) You know what worked quite amazing, even on gravel, were steel framed bicycles with rim brakes, friction shifters, and 27" wheels. Why does society feel the need to throw out what works just fine and replace it with ever more expensive rubbish that at the end of the day doesn't make anyone anymore happier? On top of that we are not even given a choice anymore! Its electronic shifters and disc brakes whether you like it or not! Its a big punch in the gut! The corporations are the only ones happier as they roll in more dough and laugh at the suckers all the way to the bank. Then they deliver some more free bikes to the hosts of GCN as a kickback for peddling their goods on their network. It's not progress, it's greed.

[@cruachan1191]

As a relative cycling newbie and very much at the budget end of things, for me the appeal of the tech videos is aspirational, like watching a car show where they drive Lambos and Astons that I'll never own. I could probably afford a Canyon Grail, and very much want one after Si's recent vid on it, but could not justify it at my level of ability.

[@gcn]

Don't let your ability level stop you upgrading the bike. A good bike can give so much more confidence and drive to ride. 🙌

[@cruachan1191]

@@gcn Don't worry, plenty of scope to upgrade from the sub 1K bike I currently ride before I get to a Canyon!

[@stevehardy4694]

Listening to this week's GCN Show, and especially Gerard Vroomen's interview, got me thinking. I was wondering when hydraulic disk brakes came out on mountain bikes and what effect it had on bike prices. Best I could determine was that they became popular in the late 1990s. Best I can recall, prices didn't do a dramatic jump with the inclusion of these brakes over mechanical ones of various forms. So I find it 'interesting' that Mr. Vroomen attributes a significant portion of the price increase to the introduction of disk brakes to road bikes. Sadly, I'm more in the gouging group. A few years ago I was interested in the Cervelo Caledonia 5. There was a one year jump, for essentially the same bike of nearly $2,000. Seemed awfully hard to justify.

[@bugboy152000]

#GCN #GCNTech I think some bikes are too expensive but then again, R&D and manufacturing techniques have also become more expensive. I also think your channels do a fantastic job of often comparing marginal gains to price tag. I think you sufficiently advise consumers that it’s mostly down to weight savings or marginal gains and that mid level equipment (group set of the people 🤜🤛) performs just as well for the every day rider. I greatly appreciate your professional opinions and feel that you’re doing a fantastic job.

[@CognitionCenter5147]

The factor that was not addressed in this video is used bikes. If a consumer has $2k to spend on a bike they're not going to buy new. It makes no sense to do so when they can hop onto any of the various available marketplaces and find a 5 year old bike originally priced $8k that is well within their $2k budget. The technology has actually not advanced far enough to make the new bike price worth it for the budget minded out there. Functionally there really isn't that much of a difference between a bike produced 5 years ago and one produced today, at least not as far as the average recreational rider is concerned. That's why new budget bikes just don't sell!

[@imbalolpro]

I watch plenty of videos of cars, computers and other high-end stuff, that don't mean I will buy it or feel bad if I can't. It's interesting to watch and entertainment. It's more fun watching you ride an insane super bike than an average city bike. Having that said, those budget challanges to get the most bang for the buck are also super entertaining as that requires wit, knowledge and innovation compared to just having the biggest wallet. ❤

[@gcn]

We always try and do a spread of both high end and entry level content. Great to hear that you are enjoying the video - Can you think of any ideas that would make for fun budget content?

[@imbalolpro]

@@gcn appreciate it! Maybe "How to convert an old road bike to a gravel bike for under 500/1000". Maybe a challange "who can get/build the cheapest bike and then do an epic ride." - like the presenters out free to scavenge Facebook, markets etc. They need to have proof of what they paid, no finding dura-ace in a box in the gcn shed. Build the bikes and make em as nice as possible say that the budget is = to the cost of the eurobike. Then they see who did it best smartest etc. The ride should be a 150km minimum so it's really tested.

[@Kevin_Aus]

He is correct that the biggest impact of the price rises has been on bikes around the $1-$1.5k range. I don't think that the industry will change. If anything this "industry crisis" will just lead to more consolodation amoung brands/manufacturers and less competition which leaves consumers even worse off. Brands have figured out that people spending more than $1k on a bike and not buying it purely for the practicality but also as a fashion statement. Therefore, just like with a fashion brand they can charge thousands based purely on the brand name alone. The big brands 15-20k bikes are purely advertising/marketing to get people to look at that brand and then buy something in the 2-5k range.

[@Mas421]

Yes, and it s called the „anchoring effect“ . Setting an „anchor“ with an 15.000€-Bike, so your brain thinks 6000€ is a super deal. It s marketing-psychology.

[@herminio001]

I remember pre COVID19 entry level bikes were $500 to $800, now you can only find them at $1300 and up. I understand that there was a supply shortage back then and now inflation but the prices still isn't justified how high they are.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

A fair bit of the increased prices is on the components and the fact that Shimano has let the entry level road groupsets rot for a long time. On the MTB side, Deore (which sits below 105 level) is still 12 speed and functional identical to XTR as the Dura Ace equivalent. You can get a set of disc brakes including levers for 115 Euros and a rear mech for 40 Euros.

[@dougstump2520]

Simon's question hits the nail on the head - are we getting sold equipment we never asked for in order to jack up the profit. The same thing is happening with new cars - I didn't ask or want adaptive cruise control or lane assist - but I have to pay for it anyway. Most of us do not need electronic shifters or hydraulic disk brakes, but try buying a bike without this stuff on a bike frame you want. Gerard is justifying unreasonable pricing structures. I appreciate the straightforward questions.

[@tonyg3091]

Well now that you brought that up, yeah, they are.

[@brankododig1585]

The component prices for a start are absolutely ridiculous. Especially electronics are being charged an absolute premium for yet we are talking about basic consumer electronics. With the whole business model where everyone is building hefty margins and marketing budgets at every step of the way, the industry deserves a crisis. Disc brakes are expensive? If bicycle engineers were building a motorcycle I suppose it would cost 120.000€

[@DavidvanderWant]

How about a gcn video researching and listing all of the known and acknowledged defects in bikes released over the last 10 years. My mid range disc brake carbon bike has ultegra cranks that the bike shop said "looks ok" and also had to jave its bb have tts bearings replaced with bigger ones before being sent off to be repaired under a warranty program response to a problem baked into this.particular model. Would be interesting to compare the price tags, marketting hype with the actual experience of owning the bike and dealing with the problems the clearly shocking qc issues leave us with.

[@sveng5319]

As an Automotive Engineer I can only say the bike companies need to learn a lot about design to cost.

[@SidAuteur]

Of course they’re ripping us off. And GCN is complicit. Stop normalizing it and ride some regular bikes once in awhile. Bring back John repairing mainstream bikes.

[@chrisbritten286]

Specialized charge £1000 for a Claris equipped Allen when a few years ago it was £540, entry level bikes are to expensive. This is the reason the cycle industry is in trouble, pure greed

[@fishmaster1960]

For reference if you look at what Royal Enfield are doing in the motorbike industry and the value for money their products offer then it's difficult to justify some of these bicycle price's even taking into consideration the economies of scale Royal Enfield have.

[@gcn]

What would you rather have though? A bike or motor bike?

[@fishmaster1960]

@@gcn I enjoy both, but it would be nice to have a bike made with a similar mindset to pricing.

[@cn07jsai]

Did you see the recent vid @FortNine did on motorbike Vs bike prices? Great piece from an amazing channel.

[@foloeel]

​@@gcnBoth!

[@longo167]

The used bike market is better than it's been in my life. You can get great deals on 1-2 year old bikes that someone else paid a lot for and barely rode. If you want a nice and affordable bike, you can get it- used.

[@lamf4846]

Yes, it is. And GCN loves promoting these super expensive bikes.

[@Frostbiker]

I'm sure they would be happy to promote cheap bikes, but nobody is putting up the cash for them to do so. All that production value comes from people who want to be paid for their services.

[@ellerybice3787]

When nice bicycles cost nice money, the rider/ purchaser has purchased not only a fine riding experience, they have also purchased prestige. 🚴🏼🚴🏼🚴🏼

[@Hugh-G-Dildeaux]

#captioncompetition the recipe for success: Train hard

[@67daltonknox]

You can get a decent motorcycle for $14,000. There is nothing to justify these bicycle prices, just charging what the market will bear.

[@clintonslayton4512]

Litespeed is still buidling frames for rim brakes, and if I had to buy a new ride, I would be going to Chattanooga to talk to them. I call BS on the non-marketability of rim brake bikes, it would bring prices back down.

[@AgentSmith16]

Agree. Last year I bought a Time Alpe d'Huez in rim brakes, and I love it. Zero complaints, just pick it up and ride it, and it descends on rails. I have felt zero need for disc brakes and I live at the foot of the Alps.

[@roykeyes2367]

I think the GCN people should start riding / reviewing the entry level or middle of the road bikes which the majority of people can afford

[@mbal4052]

I have an aluminium framed Giant TCR with 105, rim brakes and fitted with lightweight wheels. It cost me £1350 in total and as an average cyclist it’s more that I’ll ever need 😎

[@draconianTL]

Good price for a TCR - great bike

[@32dmg]

Purchase price is only the beginning of the problem. The cost to maintain integrated cables (and hydraulic brakes among other things) arguably well exceeds the marginal benefits for most consumers. Combined, these two reasons push many into the secondary market - which is fine for gearheads but problematic for non-mechanics and folks who are new to cycling. A bad secondary market experience will push many potential enthusiasts out of cycling all together. A bummer for those of us who would love to share our passion and grow our community.

[@oeylille]

Homer did not design the Canyonero, he designed the Homer.

[@mettacitta2000]

Personally it comes down to this: the balance between buying the bike you want vs the bike that you actually need. As such I have a high end mechanical rim brake bike thats light as a feather, nimble and easy to maintain and repair. I'm super happy with it and feel no need to upgrade to something more modern. I'm not Pogacar so I'm not going to pay to try imitate him, I just like being on a bike...anything else is a bonus

[@2ForceCycles]

GCN literally drives this whole thing lol

[@gcn]

We are very lucky to have some amazing sponsors on the channel. This allows us to create content like this and draw attention to the issues in the industry. We would love to do more content around entry level kit and bikes, can you think of any videos that you would like to see from us?

[@cn07jsai]

​@@gcnI mentioned it elsewhere but it would be great to see a range of bikes used in your normal videos, not just in the cheap bike Vs superbike content. Show us you can have just as much fun on a cheap as an expensive one without needing to compare the two (or even really mentioning it).

[@mariovr8416]

Bike showdown. Aluminium frame, disc brakes, 32mm GP5000 and Sora groupset vs entry level carbon electronic 105.

[@quiet451]

Please continue addressing this topic. It's an important discussion for cycling's future.

[@johnpaulstez]

When I bought my brand, new 2017, KTM 300 it was about 10 grand. This was for a completely redesigned 230lb dirt bike, engineered, assembled, and shipped from Austria. KTM is a near boutique brand, and even back then 10 grand was nowhere near the most expensive bicycle out there.

[@williamko4751]

You are part of the problem. A brand new Kawasaki Ninja costs $9,000 . It comes with an engine and all the mechanical and electronic components.

[@johnpaulstez]

@@williamko4751if you had no acl in your right knee to kick a 2 stroke you’d have gone for the push button start too, bubba👍

[@stevejenks9735]

I only ever had one issue with mechanical gears when the cable broke. Simply pulled it through and rode home on a single gear. Electronic are ridiculously expensive and are not only unreliable but can run out of battery (don't think my cables ever ran out of battery he he). Also mechanical are so easily and cheaply fixed at home with minimal equipment. PS great to meet you Simon in the cafe at Ross on Wye a few years back.

[@curtvaughan2836]

If I walked into a bike shop looking for a road bike, and saw one with a high end mechanical group set and what used to be considered a high quality set of rim brakes, I'd gladly purchase such a bike over the hydraulic disk brake / electronic shifting variety priced thousands of dollars higher. Since the bike shops have decided not to sell such bicycles, I would resort to finding such bikes online, or perhaps a custom builder offering. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that rim brakes and mechanical shifting are history - they're history because they're no longer offered as good options.

[@moopt7339]

on point!

[@tomblackwell4924]

I got into cycling because I couldn't afford car insurance, so I sold my cheap car and bought a cheap bike to commute to work. My $300 racing bike, $1200 winter commuter bike and $700 summer commuter bike have gotten upgrades over time, but I just can't relate to a world view that normalizes $7000 as a starting point. Very little, if any content you produce addresses cycling as a way of saving money on commuting to work, and keeping fit for health, and not to win some race. My heroes are the ones who survive, even though the world becomes more and more unfair to the working poor.

[@geoffreyhoney122]

Don't forget to mention, when considering the Zwift Academy, older womon contestants need not apply, no matter how superior their ability, given last year's experience!

[@peterwatts343]

Bikes for life, not just for Christmas. This translates to bikes don't wear out, with maintenance they will last for ever so when the market becomes saturated and money is short. we wont be buying new bikes. The bike industry are now clutches at straws by re-inventing Touring/Mountain bikes and calling them Gravel Bikes. Whats next?