Coil Vs Air - Which Is Best? | Blind Trail Testing MTB Suspension

[@AdventureAwaits4u]

We always hear coil versus air on the rear shock but nothing about coil versus air on the front fork. Would love to see a video on this. 🤞🏼

[@kyleslater5245]

The cost of coil on the front is mostly much higher since coil is much less common. Also. It’s on frames that are progressive that you can run coil suspension without instant bottom out. That said… I much prefer the feel of coil in the back. Forks have got a lot better. I’m still tempted to try an aftermarket coil on the front but the forks I have now do not annoy me/feel much worse the the old coil boxxers I love. I don’t even miss the old z1’s.

[@Joe-pb3lx]

@@kyleslater5245 ......with motocross coil springs are prefered for outdoors but supercross most like an air fork......i would say mountain biking is more supercross like going down hills hence the air fork use?

[@dirtyoffroader2093]

​@@Joe-pb3lxnah MTB is more like moto x/ enduro where coil suspension still rules. KTM/WP fit air forks to their off road bikes to keep weight and cost down, the Aer48 forks they produced were probably the worst suspension ever made. All WP factory riders use spring inserts. KYB are still using springs.. as are many other manufacturers. Some supercross use them to save weight, but alot of riders have coils inserted regardless of what the fork sticker says. 😉👍

[@Joe-pb3lx]

@@dirtyoffroader2093 ......yes your statements are right, a few years ago.....today spring forks are coming back to Ktm enduro bikes and only the mx bikes use air.....Tomac and Webb ride with air forks on their yamahas......but they are special

[@silys5253]

Absolutely

[@BlueberryFarm900]

This would have been much better if there was a summary of each shock (what was great, what was good, what didn't work) before the reveal. Also, the comparison testing needed to include a climb; we would all be using moto suspensions if we only went downhill.

[@tonyb9735]

Also, I wondered if rider weight would play a significant impact. I can't help thinking that Rae Morrison is probably quite a lot lighter than your average (mostly male) recreational MTB rider.

[@barrakingbeatz7794]

I ride both and coil definitely feels different and more consistent! I’m a coil guy now

[@JB50713]

Switched my Norco FS to coil midway through summer. Night and day difference with small bump compliance, which is what I was looking for as most of the trails around here are pretty tame as far as any big hits.

[@jonfritter295]

Love this video, very informative and a very nice special touch to have input from a current pro racer. I have a Nukeproof Mega 29er and have been playing around with the idea of putting on a coil shock.

[@chudei]

I have a friend that owns a bike and workshop. He deals with a lot of riders. Main difference is that in long rides coil will perform better. If you don't do long descents air shock is more than enough.

And what about small bump sensitivity? Is it possible to set up air shock to have the same sensitivity as coil shock?

[@markblumow7524]

Just what I wanted to see, thanks so much! Personal I running coil on my big endure for bikeparks ect. Air on the small enduro for more pop and more feeling for the trails.

[@denniskp4802]

Hi, i also switches from Air to coil on my tyee 6 with 29" For me, with 100kg , the Air Schock felt harsh on long descents. Bevore i drove an super Delux ultimate. Now it is an vivid coild ultimate. Now i feel more the Underground as before.

[@Edwordless]

Rode an air shock for years, so with my latest e-bike decided to go with a completely different feel: mixed wheel, large frame, and coil shock, up from a 27.5 medium analog. Wouldn’t say one is necessarily better overall, just different. I love being able to choose from the stable depending on the riding I want to do that day. Coil on the big bike feels super planted, and there is almost no maintenance or adjustment needed. Not as flickable, but way more planted for big descents and jumps.

[@joemansky29275]

I also did a lot of comparison test rides on a 2019 Nukeproof Mega 290 XL al - I will always prefer the coil shock, even on my other completely custom bike with linear back end. The ABSENCE of at least two continuously moving high pressure quad ring seals makes the coil shock feel like there's a lot less tire pressure in the rear. Need more progressivity? Tune your internal high-speed compression more progressively via the right shims in the right place, meaning maybe also adjust the order and dimensions of the shim stack. Need more "pop"? Tune your high-speed rebound differently via taking away shims or changing from a linear rebound shim stack to a progressive one. A coil shock can ALWAYS be tuned to behave like an air shock: "playful" and "poppy." Less friction, less maintenance, and more consistency on long descents on a hot summer day always win for me.

[@motocash]

Motorcycles figured this out decades ago. A properly tuned coil is hard to beat. The only honorable mention I would give is to a Fox 38 fork. I always convert my forks to coil, but I have to say that fork was pretty darn good with the air spring.

[@bertkreft9689]

I love this format of blind tests 👍 maybe you could take a light bike and put some little weights on the rim and then swap them for dummies to see what difference you notice. The same thing works with rubber compound, innertubes vs sealingliquids. What does the driver notice and what can be ignored? The difference between an air spring element and a steel spring element is obviously so small that it is damn difficult even for a professional to notice the difference. Nevertheless, it is of course about weight and durability but the performance itself is very, very similar.

[@hamjes]

Hello from Finland guys!!

[@DandyHippo]

Hello!!

[@LawrenceMacMacster]

Hello from Mont-Tremblant dude.

[@ΠαναγιώτηςΑριφάκος]

Hello fom Greece dude!

[@ΠαναγιώτηςΑριφάκος]

*from

[@apfolklore]

Hello from Kuopio!!!!

[@thomasjamescalub5564]

It would be nice if you do tests both for fork and rear shock. For example setup your bike with a coil fork and a coil shock, then air fork and air shock. Nice videos as always. Keep it up GMBN 😊

[@Seppster58]

I run air shocks and find they are perfect for my ride style. Mainly XC and some Trail riding, I find it is best for me. Thanks for the comparison of the two. More educated now on this topic. Thanks Rich!!

[@growlith6969]

I agree, I like everything about air on the trail, but when I do DH I looooove coil. Pretty hard to have impact stacking with a coil.

[@JasonFoxLCB]

My current bike came with a coil. And while I can't tell you if I like it better than its equivalent air version, I can say that I have zero complaints with how it rides and love the fact that I'm not always faffing about with air pressure and other settings. And being an eMTB, I care not about the weight penalty.

[@JeffMTBinVA]

Thanks Rich. I wish this had a little more feedback of what you liked/didn't and which run you liked best. #GMBN I like the informative and tips but I would love to see more "We're here just riding" videos. It doesn't have to be some where exotic, local is fine. The, just having fun and shredding videos are awesome.

[@eXaviar]

I have just finished building up my very first full sus and a steel one 😎 and since I already have a coil fork, I went straight to a coil shock, because I love the sensitivity of a coil. I tried some air forks from friends and also had an air fork before,, but since the coil fork, there is no turning back for me at least 😍 #steelisreal in fork, shock and frame 🤩

[@gmbn]

That's going to be one heavy bike! But indestructible 🤘

[@eXaviar]

@gmbn yes! That was one of my goals. It even has a Linkglide drive train. Though it still climbs better than my Ragley Bigwig Hardtail

[@emtb-explorer]

This is one thought that went through my head in recent weeks, Should I get my regular shock serviced or go for a coil shock? Mainly ride a combination of Tech and Flow Trails at trail parks and weather permitting big bike days out over hills, some great advice thanks for sharing Rich and GMBN! 😁🤙

[@tobiass6092]

i switched from air to coil on my tyee. feels like night an day. a lot more small bump sensitivity. i dont care about the weight. my xl tyee with a zeb weights 17,5 anyways 😂

[@richardkovanda7578]

once decided for coil, there's no turning back! My custom Mega with RC2T and Zeb is 16,5kg

[@dannovikov2977]

​@@richardkovanda7578my hardtail is 18kg 😂

[@richardkovanda7578]

@@dannovikov2977 solid steel I guess :)

[@worldstallestmidget]

I have a e bike. And use the coil mostly for climbing or wet conditions for grip and more agresaive trails. Use my air shock for mello trails and if I’m going to be jumping or hoping most of day

[@DutchM4ng0]

So the question you were trying to answer is which one is better. With the setup of a single blind experiment I thought it would be seeing which feels better, but it ended up being "Can I guess which I'm riding" which defeated the point of the blind experiment...

[@federicolore8476]

In reality, in the enduro world championships they use spring shock absorbers much more often, while in DH they use air shock absorbers more and more often.

[@paradox963]

I think a lot was left out about the tune-ability of modern coil shocks, from adjustable hydraulic bottom out control to progressive coil springs, they can be tuned much more than in the past. I also think XC people are doing themselves a disservice by not even thinking about a coil shock, I have gone between an air shock and a coil on my 115mm travel bike and the traction difference is night and day and a weight penalty I am happy to take for such and increase in grip.

[@Vilendank]

agreed, quite a few companies doing air/coil combos for the best of both, but this is GMBN, the beigest of nothingburger content

[@fredEVOIX]

if you cannot lock almost fully the shock it's not for XC at all I went from analog float fact dps 3-pos to emtb float x and the pedal pumping is pretty bad at correct sag, the 2-pos lever doesn't change much it's nothing like a lockable shock so unless a coil can be almost fully locked it's not for XC, that's my pov after 12'000ft of ascent in 3 days with a float x ebike after 3y of 3-pos lockable analog xc

[@richarddecredico6098]

@@fredEVOIXgatekeeping nonsense

[@EstebanNavarro-oc6pp]

I ran both on two different enduro/trail bikes and swapped them a few times when I first custom-built them. Both work very well; however, the main thing I found is that the bike configuration/frame design makes the difference noticeable. Coils or air do not make a difference in one of the bikes, but in the other bike, the coil performs better than the air shock, no matter how I set up the shock. If I had to choose, for enduro use/bike, I would probably go with the coil, especially in long runs/descents where the linearity of the coil is an asset.

[@adrian_veidt]

Coil for less demanding maintenance and plush. Thank lord for progressive coil springs

[@piersbickerton-jones6231]

Absolutely depends on frame kinematics, yes some can run both but that’s a compromise. If you want to run a coil get a frame that was specifically designed for them. The caveat to this is talk to a suspension tuning specialist as they will have experience with bikes that are sold with air (for the reasons mentioned in the video) but work better with a coil. Also, that new cane creek thing might just make everything I just said a whole lot of hot air! 😂

[@eXaviar]

You can even get progressive coils nowadays

[@Ferrari255GTO]

​@@eXaviar they've existed for a good while now, but IMO if you want progressive then using coil is kinda silly since it's what you try to avoid from air shocks in the first place though.

[@eXaviar]

@@Ferrari255GTO Well, I use coil for the small bump sensitivity and longer service intervals that air can not provide at the level. If the coil is progressive, yeah, I take it

[@Ferrari255GTO]

@@eXaviar i get that, but i don't think it would make sense for most users to do that just for two small advantages. Don't get me wrong i'm full coil all day, but at that point if your bike has an air one i don't think the cost makes up for the advantages, i have ridden air suspension that felt absolutely amazing, even better than some older coils. To be fair though i haven't ridden any coil suspension that was as well prepped as that giant glory was...

[@eXaviar]

@@Ferrari255GTO don't worry. Each to their likings 🤙🏾

[@keithwestwood4640]

The frame shroud looked good Richard.

[@Richard_Payne_GMBN]

Thanks dude, I can’t take much of the credit that’s down to the Mrs and her sowing machine 😅

[@cassobiker]

i have 5 shocks, 4 air shock and one coil. i like bos kirk and ohlins air shocks. bos kirk feels almost like coil and ohlins can handle gnarly tracks easily. also i have 2 rockshox monarch+ and these shocks are nice for xc and trails, but not for real enduro. and my coil vivid, it is heavy and finding correct spring was a pain, but... this twintube shock is amaizing but unfortunetly really underrated.

[@mscustomlures]

Upgraded my Whyte E160 from air to coil shock but fitted a progressive spring, tracks perfectly on the techy downhill stuff i like to ride

[@Epiphonech]

Bigger altitude differences made my air shock feel different. Also in freezing conditions some air shocks will leak air down to a certain pressure. Coil stiffens in colder temperatures, especially when it's below -10C.

[@ralphcrosby4051]

Coil like the quote set ,sit ,ride

[@diligentDawg99]

Thanks for the great video. I recently tried a coil shock at a DH park. Honestly, I think I like my airshock better.

[@growlith6969]

Can be tough, initially my DH wasn't very good, but went up on spring weight and it blew me away. That's the downer, buying different coils and trying out what works.

[@666psicko]

Coil shocks do take some time and money if to set perfectly for you if you don't buy the correct spring the first time.

[@maxtorque2277]

Lets be quite clear, for the typical average mountain biker what actually matters more than coil vs air is simply having either correctly setup for their bike, weight and riding style, and here air ihas the massive benefit of zero cost tuning, vs buying and trying a load of metal springs! Most MTBs i see have such poorely setup suspension than often, no suspension would actually probably be better....... ;-)

[@richardkovanda7578]

That trail looks fun! You were in Alicante? Nice, 2hrs drive from there is Lunar wake park, you better try that too!

[@gmbn]

The trails were in the Forest of Dean in the UK, but Rich was in Alicante for the conclusion 🤙

[@silys5253]

There are now two or three manufacturers who offer progressive coil springs. Not only so. There is also a progressive, adjustable coil spring. Coil springs weigh more but cause no heat and no heat build up as with air dampers. Coils also have no stiction which is a huge problem if you have to run high pressures on air dampers - e.g. because you and your setup are heavy.

[@mscustomlures]

I have both a cane creek valt in 550-670lb as that's the heaviest they do and an MRP 600+ 20% progressive spring. I switch between the two

[@Ry_Rides]

I was running coil on my old bike, my new bike came with the new vivid air which I’ve really enjoyed using. However, I’ve got a coil to try out on my new frame now

[@vrwgq3q]

There will always be some form of sticktion and progressivity that an air shock will have vs. That of a coil regardless regardless of diameter and damper.

[@LawrenceMacMacster]

Progressive coil on a linear suspension design. That's the ultimate damper test.

[@Cg-fh5re]

My 2022 Rallon is waiting to get the JadeX coil and z1 coil soon. I am rather Allmountain rider without racing but I hope for smoothing a little the rather harsh Rallon. Also better +300g on the bike and 300g less for the shock pump in the backpack ;).

[@PlaySA]

I would like to see this question addressed again, but with a race involved. Preferably with at least five riders, perhaps of varying skill levels. See which setup allows them to get down the mountain fastest!

[@jokermtb]

Unless you have one of those variable springrate coil adjusters, you're always going to be making compromises with spring rate. Coils feel nicer off the bat, because there's barely any seal stiction, while air springs always have to overcome that static seal friction. That said, air-springs are far more convenient as you can adjust the pressure as seasonal air temperatures change (more air in the winter, less air in the summer and everything inbetween) and you don't have to buy extra springs or adjusters to alter spring rates. Lastly, in the late 70's early 80's, in the motocross world Air Forks and Shocks attempted a takeover in the suspension world. They were quite good for the first few minutes, but during a moto, the heat buildup would constantly alter the spring rate (later additions of cooling fins and remote reservoirs did little to negate the heat buildup), and after a few seasons, everyone was back to coil suspension - there were a few attempts to bring back air suspension for moto and enduro bikes, but the same problems persisted. Sure, mountain bikes do not heat up their suspension nearly as much as motorcycles can, but as Morrison mentioned, she ran coils due to the heat issues on long enduro stages - it's a factor indeed, but nowhere near what dirt bikers encountered. For most of us, we'll never heat up the suspension so much that we'll feel the spring rates change, so the air-shocks will continue to be the favorite for most consumers.

[@BarrettMeeker867]

Can't you just order the coil shock for your weight and be done with it? That's how motocross suspension tends to be done.

[@Taylor5084]

Doddy once did a video on air vs coil on a reactor. He ended the video saying he would like to have tried the air front and coil rear so I would have loved to hear what his final thought on this, selfishly because I own one of them bike so was interested to know.

[@TeeSCee]

I just switched from a RS ultimate Coil to Vivid air ultimate DH, hoping to make my enduro bike a bit lighter and easier to peddle in trails. Also, I heard the vivid air has a very coil like feel at start and the good ramp up toward the end. Would be a nice comparison of coil vs vivid air or fox x2

[@petereverett2354]

I think alot of people who rave about coil are upgrading from an airshock thats well due a service and going to a fresh coil. So your getting a massive increase in plushness that you could have probably got 80% of by servicing the airshock. Their definitely more supple but its definitely not night and day.

[@harv83]

"tech" trail... Cute 😂

[@fredEVOIX]

I wish I had smooth trails like these nope I've got scifi stone "blades" protruding everywhere from the ground like on an alien planet not breaking my wheels or pedals is my no1 priority >< after a while I gave up and plowed through a grass field instead hoping for no hidden holes because the "trail" was 99% tech 1%flow

[@marekpalan9998]

Hey, would like to ask, if you could tell us the times of your runs? It would be really interesting to see the differences there.

[@growlith6969]

I have a very new bike with air front and back, then I have an older DH with coil fork/shock, and I have to tell you, I dont want to ride air doing park and I dont want to ride coil riding trail.

[@GrigoryRechistov]

Yo where my elastomer rear shocks at? Looking at you, Magura.

[@damientime6604]

this should be on gmbn tech.

[@scottbroyles2114]

I personally like coil because I’m a bigger guy, 6’3” 270, to keep my big ars up on an air shock it takes a little of pressure, which is easier to blow out on big hit.. ask me how I know… the spring makes it easier on the shock, at worst I can still ride back if I smoke the internals… for me, it’s just being pragmatic

[@jamesstammers6696]

Proof is in the marketing, even manufacturers rate how good an air shock is against it it's as good as a coil. Let's be realistic, air shocks are good at saving manufacturers from specing lots of different coil weights or spare springs on new bikes. Nothing against air shocks, but you won't find one on my bikes.

[@taylordarion3477]

Will be getting my first ever coil shock this week! Unfortunately i can’t ride it because winter but your words are giving me hope that it’ll revive my bike

[@marklouieadame]

True and wonder why dirtbike and racebike still goes for coil shocks. It is the rebound and lsc and hsc actually makes the difference

[@BlackFlag94]

Marketing doesn't indicate truth.. marketing targets people's assumptions as they are targeting these exact people to part them with their money. People don't want truth, people want buzzwords and feeling a sense of belonging to a group of like-minded people. "Like a coil shock" allows people on air shocks to feel like they are just like the coil shock guys too

[@tonyk0756]

Tuning a coil shock means changing the spring. My Kenevo has an Olins TTX and you have a choice of 16 different springs with approximately 10 kg of rider weight difference between them. They cost over 100€ each. I,m a bit on the heavy side so with the spring it came with the pedals were hitting things. And the shop will not trade them as they have a box full of the standard ones already. Also not so easy to change yourself, depending on mechanical skills and the tools you have.

[@b.w.1704]

Changing the coil requires to undo and redo two bolts on 99% of all modern bikes. A skilled monkey might be able to do it.

[@Ferrari255GTO]

I'm sorry dude, but if you think changing a coil is challenging... Maybe you should stick with a hardtail... Shock maintenance is a whole other story though.

[@tonyk0756]

@@Ferrari255GTO Oh I have a Cannondale Caffeine hardtail with a Lefty DLR 2 on the front. Doing a damper service on a lefty is real fun.

[@Ferrari255GTO]

@@tonyk0756 oh i know what you mean, i have a Boxxer world cup and any kind of maintenance involves full disassembly of the fork because of the damper cartidges being for fast and slow settings. It's the original 2009 fork from my Demo 8 so i'll eventually swap to a newer lower end fork for convenience, the thing is that the video is talking about shocks not forks though, forks are a whole other thing by themselves, the in-between maintenance is (most of the time) far simpler on a shock since there's none at all, but once the shock does need a full rebuild it can be a nightmare, the DHX2 Factory Series i have is wayy too much for me RN, i'll have to send it to a shop.

[@tonyk0756]

@@Ferrari255GTO The point I was trying to make, is the coil needs a new spring at 100€ + and some disassembly to fit the thing. Not just a few pumps of air to tune. You buy the bike like I did with a standard spring and you are going to have to change it if you are not the standard weight. And the bike shop will not have any springs in stock.

[@francisdee9955]

coil all the way🤘🏻

[@gmbn]

What coil are you using?

[@francisdee9955]

@ ext storia 😋

[@JanGoh-jb5ge]

"The pros" = A single pro. Not that her opinion isn't valuable and meaningful, but that's not data, it's an anecdote.

[@paule4204]

Also the pro is light, which suits air more

[@DaftNorthernLad]

@@JanGoh-jb5ge true, but the explanation of the “feel” will be more relatable for the majority as it’s hard to translate objective data into more subjective descriptions.

[@JanGoh-jb5ge]

@@DaftNorthernLad In that case, I would've preferred at least one pro that had the OPPOSITE opinion and went back the other way. It's not that I don't appreciate her opinion, but it's overselling it quite a bit to say it's information from "the pros" plural, and only get one opinion from one discipline.

[@DaftNorthernLad]

@ so not an issue with Rae per se rather than GMBN’s claim of “pros” which does indeed suggest more than one. Choice of shock does depend on multiple factors and an unequivocal answer either way is at best unhelpful. I wouldn’t want to see a new rider being misled into making an unsuitable choice.

[@scstinger5]

Coil shock and fork! Air is just too much maintenance and too finicky. I will gladly take the weight penalty for running coil, it feels better and you don’t have to mess with it as much

[@Northcraft87]

Love the NWOBHM tunes on this video - bon shreddage. Your ex German co-host @maxaufdeutsch has recently released a video that also discussed shock swaps and claimed that depending on the bike and the kinematics intended by the engineers the specific tune and type of a shock can have a tremendous effect on the riding experience. A more fancy shock or coil model may have a negative effect even though it might be the better shock on paper. Would you say that the majority of the bikes can be used with air or coil as long as it fits in? I have only ridden air so far.

[@gmbn]

No max is spot on! Leverage curve of the suspension layout is super important, some more linear bikes just don't play well with coil as they need the progressivity of the air shock to ramp up the resistance towards the end of the travel for them

[@briangarner]

The second he sits on the bike he knows what shock it is.........but i like the tests :)

[@mejne]

Why is it that trails look great everywhere but where I live?

[@Ferrari255GTO]

Same 😂

[@jonagamez707]

i’m not sure if you are allowed to do this, please can you send me the full clip which starts at 10:50 on the blue berm since i am in it and would love to be able to have a chance to be able to see the full version? I fully understand if you can’t but it would be so appreciated.

[@apfolklore]

Coil for me. Used both. But no expert here. Coil is just a better feel for me given my weight and height 6ft 185lbs.

[@Pepper1770]

I prefer spring coils but I will admit it’s a dangerous piece to have near your balls and legs if it flies out from damage

[@DandyHippo]

Wow never thought of that

[@eXaviar]

Sorry but sounds very irrational. Then you must be afraid of an exploding air shock, too. There is round about 200 psi in there. 25 psi in a tire is already very loud. Imagine 200 psi between your legs 🤯

[@Pepper1770]

@@eXaviar nah mate I just thought of a what if scenario if you saw some of the shit I’ve done on MTB’s you’d think I’m a psychopath not only on them but dirt bikes and sur rons too police chases are the worst

[@Pepper1770]

@@eXaviar imagine a car tire exploding as you add way too much PSI to it with the rim inside you’d be a bag of bones and shot into the air see these things your meant to be wary of idiots who aren’t end up on a live leak vid and in a closed casket

[@bongobob7079]

@@Pepper1770 "police chases are the worst" Don't be a imbecile then

[@wanderer2246]

Alicante have trails like that? Where ?

[@Lizard7AR]

Alicante -> Mondraker Bikes -> Biketrails 🤣🤣🤣

[@gmbn]

These trails are in the Forest of Dean, sorry for any confusion! 👍

[@jf8534]

Coil on my fuel ex 8 gen 6.

[@carlosegas7134]

Felicidades por buestro trabajo es un canal muy importante en el mundo del Mountabike me gustaría que puedan subtitular su contenido al Español al igual que lo hace El Canal Español ESMTB que subtitula al Inglés mis dos canales favoritos"

[@HandsomeDanNZ]

I’ve gone from a coil to an air shock recently and I actually prefer the playful and poppy nature of the air shock rather than the planted monster truck feel of the coil. Still think coils look better though.

[@gmbn]

Nice! Glad you've found what works for you!

[@darrinkulyk9560]

Coils Work Better and Offer Better Traction .... Both my bikes are Fully Coiled . Gave up on air after 6 months .

[@notme-kc3pq]

As a total numpty how can i find out if the frame kinematics are progressive or linear ? Would the manufacturer know for example ?

[@666psicko]

The manufacturer will know. Also you can probably find out by searching online.

[@COZzZMO79]

I have always bought bikes already with the coil shock.

[@iTzBenoeg]

Nobody talking about the downside of small bump sensitivity with coil? In general way more bouncy on uphill than an air shock, of course depending on the bike. Besides the extra weight the main reason why I‘m going with the air shock.

[@crankshoptv]

Coil with lockout for the fire roads

[@galenkehler]

That's a skill issue 😂 Joking a little but I used to love the sensitivity of coil on the uphill for the traction benefit but it totally depends on the suspension design. And no matter what you have to pedal it properly

[@jdmbeaner182]

@@iTzBenoeg depends on the frame and running proper springrate. I've had better pedaling platforms on my ext storia, vorsprung tellum than I did on a float x.

[@666psicko]

That sounds like a setup issue depending on the bike of course. Small bump compliance is a pro for coil shocks. Not a downside.

[@SwordFighterPKN]

As a heavier rider coil is the way to go. As soon as you sit on the bike you will know if you have a coil or air shock.

[@stevenkilleen8149]

Rockshox vivid ultimate as a bigger rider works best so far for me

[@noddy8064]

What was the times

[@DanK-ny9fh]

#askgmbntech, I want to upgrade from my canyon strive al7 from 2017 i think, would the meta sx v5 (the race sparkly blue) or an aluminium spindrift be better as an enduro bike? i mostly ride freeride in it's classical form where i get lost in the forest and have fun getting out. and which shock would be better for these applications air or coil?

[@Max-wm9ee]

So, which was faster?

[@jessehill3780]

This test can’t really be valid as they are not the same damper. If you’re really going to do this test then you need to use something like the x2 and float x2, kitsuma air and kitsuma coil, or float x and dhx. I recently went through this myself and in the end I found the float x2 was best fit for my bike. Seems I don’t like coils as much until I have a mid 30% progression rate in the suspension design. Below that and I need to run a firmer spring and a lot more HSC damping which leads to a more damped feel. It’s beneficial in some places like chunky bike parks and big berms (I found it good in whistler) but for most places the air is better and actually more sensitive because I don’t need to run as high an initial spring rate. The idea that a coil will always be more sensitive because of less seals gets thrown out the window when you take into account you need a firmer spring rate if the frame isn’t progressive enough IMO.

[@garrynewton6213]

I'll stick with my BOS Stoy with titanium spring 🙂

[@trailblazerking4906]

👍 if your a heavyer muscled 17 Stone rider a "Coil shock" will be better 🤗👍 im surprised you never talk about weight of rider..!!!

[@joserosa2131]

I believe that a proper test should be With fox X2….not this one.

[@ToaoMeka]

Just use the Cane Creek Tigon best of both worlds for the most part

[@HappyTeaRex1]

I think this is decision shoulbe be heavily influenced by the geometry of the bike. The chracteristics of the bike change how air/coil shox feel so I would not say coil is always better...

[@KiwiInGermanyMTB]

Easy winner: What's cooler?

[@gmbn]

What is cooler? 🤔

[@paulallen3031]

Coil all the way ,like night and day

[@Lizard7AR]

Coil 😎 140TM 😎

[@COZzZMO79]

However, it is not correct to say progressive and linear, it would be better to say curved progression and linear progression.

[@Ferrari255GTO]

It should be exponential and linear, not "curved" but progressive makes sense since as the travel progresses the resistance increases exponentially, it very much works. Besides, even if it's technically wrong the current terminology won't change unless it causes issues, wich it doesn't

[@danielszanto2955]

@@Ferrari255GTO There are no suspensions with exponentially increasing resistance, except the linear ones. Linear is exponential, while reciprocal is not. Please don't try to bend math so heavily, it is your most reliable servant.

[@LtHustensaft]

dont you hear the difference between air and coil? i think after 2min you gonna know what damper it is

[@ronaldtartaglia4459]

It's just for companies to sell more products

[@nilsverbeeck732]

Riding noices are better than cheap rock music

[@jasontyler2211]

So this was really only a video about if you could tell the difference and not which is king. You never answered the question in the title.

[@jaysealenduro5618]

No.1 it really depends on the frame kinematics and leverage. Most average mtbikers on the commention section prefers coil. But most elite/Pro level to world champ level Enduro mtb racers prefer Air shocks. You can even see some Freeride rampage champion used Air shock. No.3 we cant really compare a regular air shock to a High end coil shock, a super expensive coil shock might be better than a Basic air shock but not technically better than a High end air shocks e.g. 2023-2025 Rs Super deluxe ultimate.

[@bongobob7079]

Tell me you are a fanboy of airshocks without telling me you are a fanboy of airshocks. Let me guess you use a airshock and are unhappy people in chat are not all agreeing with you. "Most average mtbikers" "some Freeride" have a word with yourself.

[@jaysealenduro5618]

Its obvious you are a coil shock fan who is assuming that im an air shock fan cause we have different preferences. But it is a fact that most coil shock fans knows nothing about suspension and frame kinematics 101 just like how ignorant those who said "thats why i will not use carbon frame" everytime they see a broken carbon frame😂. You can have your own opinions but facts are facts my original comment if you read it in context its a factual statement that REFUTES everything that you said. Lastly, you and those people who prefer coil, my friend no one is stopping you to use coil anyone can have their own personal opinion and preferences but for me I prefer to follow the Real scientific facts not by an Ignorant biased opinion a big difference between you and me. The most Dumb thing that you said is that im unhappy cause of some people's preferences not agreeing with me??😂 ridiculous and hilarious what a dumb and false guess/accusation. Period

[@bongobob7079]

@@jaysealenduro5618 I use both air and coil as I have different bikes for multiple disciplines. You are just your average ps vs xbox or intel vs amd type of idiot that spouts utter nonsense to try and justify their fanboy views. You sir are a full blown 🤡

[@bongobob7079]

​@@jaysealenduro5618 "most coil shock fans knows nothing about suspension" Tell that to pro downhill bikers and free riders. "Its obvious you are a coil shock fan" is it obvious? I have multiple bikes that I use on different types of rides. One is a 160mm air and my other is a 200mm coil. You say "not by an Ignorant biased opinion" and "Most AVERAGE mtbikers on the commention section prefers coil" You come here insult the community and shout about bias when clearly your whole post is bias and a sad attempt to belittle anyone who does not use air 100% of the time. You talk about facts but show none but your own opinion. Depending on the sport depends on what the majority will use on their bike. Both coil and air have their place but a fanboy, yes fanboy like yourself will never admit that. "a big difference between you and me" indeed, I say both types of shock have a place yet you are quick to call anyone who says they prefer coil shock a "average" rider or say "it is a fact that most coil shock fans knows nothing about suspension and frame kinematics 101" basically saying anyone who rides with a coil shock is dumb and stupid. "ridiculous and hilarious what a dumb and false guess/accusation" calling me a fanboy because I call you out for trying to make fun of this community for preferring one shock over another is hilarious and dumb and also a false guess. You are no better than those ps vs xbox or amd vs intel types. I find you disgusting.

[@ish474]

A coil would be great for me the three days a year I get to ride rough bike parks and kind of useless all the other times

[@crankshoptv]

Air shocks are easier. Easier is better. I have a coil.

[@gmbn]

By your logic it seems like you've made the wrong choice 😬

[@Jurawood]

coil shock absorbers are much simpler!!!

[@crankshoptv]

@@Jurawood Mechanically yes, just not to the average user. Dialling in an air shock is very easy for the average user to get right. You don't have to decide on a spring rate and buy a spring for a start.

[@crankshoptv]

@@gmbn I didn't, but the average rider might. It's a LOT easier to get the ride feel you want from an air shock.

[@EdFormer]

As an engineer and mountain biker, it blows my mind how terribly the relationship between a spring and a damper in a mass spring damper, i.e. a suspension system, is nearly always explained in videos like this. It's really basic maths.

[@justsayin3600]

Coil or Air? Not all Air Shocks are created equal. Not all Coil Shocks are created equal. Give me the best reviewed, highest rated Air, and give me the best reviewed, and highest rated Coil, and it will depend on what trails you ride, and what bike you ride. For pedaling trails Air is good especially because of weight. For hard, fast, big impacts Coil is King! Whether Air or Coil if you don't have it set up right, either will feel like 💩 If you have an awesome shock but you don't have a suspension fork to match/ballance the shock the bike will not the best it can be.

[@fredEVOIX]

otter mtb tech has comparisons of all shocks and forks and well the 2 winners are ohlins coils but they are also very expensive heh

[@plainuser48596]

This videos seems to be rushed and incompleted. You didn't talk about how each of them felt (good and bad points), how it climbed, if the negatives of each mattered or were they just barely noticable

[@mikestivers8302]

you failed to raise the correct question, we are no longer interested in asking this vs. that... so i will raise this correct question and then provide you with a correct answer, since i am a gentleman. at what rear suspension travel should a bike be sporting a shiny coil shock? 150mm travel. that's it. any bike at 150 mil or more travel gets a coil. glad i could end this silly discussion for all. byeeee!

[@bikemad]

Rich yr not an average joe!

[@Richard_Payne_GMBN]

Ah thanks man 🙌👊

[@treymann23]

Hands Down EXT

[@darrinkulyk9560]

I Run a TTX With TI Spring On My CF Demo8 Its Amazing And Bombproof 😎

[@JJMWW-MTB]

nice video btw first

[@gmbn]

Thank you!

[@_burd]

Maybe this is a pessimistic take, but If you were a manufacturer that could create a 'trend' in your customer-base to buy and rebuy a product every season by changing fundamental components by arbitrary amounts, wouldn't you? There are few profits to be made in engineering a product that lasts, just in products that 'innovate' as frequently as possible to start a new re-buy cycle for customers. The last two decades have seen mountain biking brands shift from honest industrial design companies to 'tech' sector businesses. Where many frequent iterations beats good, long lasting design. Soon you won't even get a new product for spending your money, you will have to pay monthly to continue getting telemetry from your electronic components piped to your strava account for no reason xD All maintained by paying 'content agencies' on youtube to push the 'top 3 products you should consider' every few months, it's just disingenuous. Where that ends up sending the industry as a whole will likely make it implode once all the kids riding scooters grow older and aren't interested in bicycles because they never were. They became more and more expensive that we stopped being able to get everyone out riding, only those that could afford to.

[@DRenddj]

Buy me an mtb😢