God Makes Nothing That He Does Not Love - Stephen R.L. Clark

Stephen R.L. Clark responds to three questions:
- Should Christians give more thought to the well-being of animals?
- Do you believe animals have souls, or something similar, that will exist into eternity?
- Should vegetarianism ideally be the norm for humans?
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[@bluegreenOD]

Books I’ve found very helpful on this topic include ‘Is God a Vegetarian’ and ‘The Jewish Vegan’. As always, St Francis lead the way. God is literally every thing.

[@colingallagher1648]

Clarks work are wonderful

[@epektasis_shunyata]

Best living Philosopher

[@porchlights2268]

This was encouraging because I decided just yesterday that I will choose the whole foods plant based way of life! I have always leaned in this direction because I had serious digestive issues for most of my adult life. I can eat meat....but my system feels so much more at peace if I don't. I was, for a few months, encouraged to eat keto/ paleo and gave it a good try. However, it caused much grief! This gentleman's kind words have encouraged me today. Thank you😊

[@Chancey388]

Yes my love it is the natural way

[@trevorsimpson3452]

Thank you. Very sane. I can't believe God wastes or destroys anything he loves either and so believe all animals will be present in Heaven, all of them are innocent.

[@IosefDzhugashvili]

Thank you so much for creating this.

[@andyzar1177]

Beautiful! I want to respect our cousins by not eating them, can’t believe we do that, I want to become a vegetarian, it will be hard but necessary, I think we will never be a peaceful world until that is achieved.

[@markdaniels1730]

"For You love all things that are and loathe nothing that You have made; for You would not fashion what You hate. How could a thing remain, unless You willed it; or be preserved, had it not been called forth by You? But you spare all things, because they are Yours, O Ruler and Lover of souls, for Your Imperishable Spirit is in all things." - Wisdom 11:24-26

[@henrieecen2938]

Very much the convictions of Francis of Assisi. Consciousness the mind of God is in everything with the apex in us with the awareness of self as I am.

[@williamoarlock8634]

So-called 'Francis of Assisi' (Giovanni Francesco Bernadone) was into flagellation and flagellating women so he wasn't the sweet 'medieval hippy' modern Christian cults and sects make him out to be.

[@justchilling704]

He’s wrong on the topic.

[@JD-HatCreekCattleCo]

You are exactly correct 🙏🙏🙏❤️

[@benc6537]

All animals have 'personality', even an ant can be observed to make choices and the humble goldfish take care of one another. As for humans...we take some saving.

[@garychartier8365]

People interested in books on this topic could not do better, I think than to read Stephen's own book, The Moral Status of Animals.

[@Roman-Pregolin]

Plants have consciousness and feelings too. There's racism, speciesism and taxonomic kingdomism.

[@stevenking6129]

So what exactly do you eat?

[@Roman-Pregolin]

@@stevenking6129 people

[@christianuniversalist]

I’m a pescetarian like Jesus.

[@buddyfisherofmen3821]

The Bible clearly says that after God created and made everything on each day, He says…It was Good…!

[@williamoarlock8634]

Until 'He' has a change of heart.

[@kennethfurr7397]

Any thoughts out there about the Legion story where Jesus let demons enter a herd of pigs (around 2000 of them!!!) and they ALL drown? This does not seem very "God is love" like to me, and something I have been struggling with quite a bit. I mean, what did the pigs do to deserve this, or do you think the point has something to do with the fact large numbers of Roman soldiers were called "legion" in Jesus' day and this didn't literally happen? I mean, it seems to me if Jesus is love, would he not also love these sentient beings, human or not? Also, it is an incredibly violent story. It is not like the pigs were a bunch of rocks sitting there. They were, all 2000ish of them(!), sentient beings. From the story in Mark 5... 11 A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

[@No2AI]

Humanity aside the animal kingdom lives in fear …. ! Tell me where is the love …. ?

[@sevasuzuki5589]

Is there a way to watch without background music? It's really distracting.

[@LoveUnrelenting]

Sorry, I didn't make a version without music. But the next video coming out with him doesn't have any background music.

[@sevasuzuki5589]

@LoveUnrelenting wonderful. Your content is super and we know many of the people personally that you share and so want to support this... it's just hard to listen well with the background music...Maybe because I'm a musician?... Would watch more if there was a way to mute that and just follow the talking or if the music was just at the start/ end. Keep on carrying forward. 🙌

[@LoveUnrelenting]

@@sevasuzuki5589 makes sense! I often use the music to hide the way the audio changes when I make cuts in the interviews. I know that is not a priority for many people, but perhaps you will be happy to know that a good number of upcoming videos will not have music 😅

[@williamoarlock8634]

"Dominion over the animals" is a 'biblical notion'.

[@karinyaboriskova441]

Dominion should not be understood as domination but as being a loving caretaker...as God has dominion over man (ultimately)

[@williamoarlock8634]

@@karinyaboriskova441 'God' isn't really there outside theist heads and storybooks.

[@TheEternalClown]

​@@williamoarlock8634'Really' is an expression of uncertainty.

[@williamoarlock8634]

@@TheEternalClown 'Christ' is an idol of hypocrisy and tautology.

[@williamoarlock8634]

@@TheEternalClown 'God' is a word of idiocy.

[@byzantinedeacon]

He is wrong on one major point.We are not stewards of creation. We are priests. The creation depends upon our mediation. Animals need that meditation. Isaiah 11 shows us the destiny of the animal kingdom. Animals will be with us in paradise.

[@KevinGeneFeldman]

Why would God create animals who are conscious and experiential like we are, but their purpose is to be ripped apart in agony by other animals?

[@epektasis_shunyata]

The world is currently fallen, as in, not how God ultimately wants it to be.

[@KevinGeneFeldman]

@@epektasis_shunyata How can that be the case? One of this channels core arguments is that Gods will is always done, if he wills all to be saved, then all will be saved. For this to be true, Gods will must be able to fail, such as, he does not will that we would sin or reject him or commit unspeakable atrocities, but we do. If his will always succeeds then everything that has ever happened was not only his will but he made it happen and we had no choice in the matter.

[@epektasis_shunyata]

@@KevinGeneFeldman As to exactly how that can be the case, I haven't the faintest idea, but it's the most obvious thing to my immediate senses and is part and parcel of every culture that's ever existed on the planet, as far as I know. Every deeply respected mythos, folktale, etc. has something about this world being fallen from a more distant, better, purer world or place. There are a variety of inklings and intuitions about why exactly it is that way, but until the end when we shall see him as he is, no definitive, exhaustive explanation has been nor probably will be given. What you are describing here is occasionalism and is not only a minority position in most christian traditions but is also considered a heresy in many of them. Most uphold the idea that creatures have their own wills and can (at least until enlightened or sanctified) act in opposition to His will. So the claim isn't that God's will is done in every single instance at all moments in time in this fallen cosmos. It's that God's ultimate intention will be finally carried out in the end. Unfortunately, the only way to properly judge that claim is to have gotten to that end, which none of us has. So you can feel free to reject it, but not judge it as inadequate, at least not reasonably.

[@KevinGeneFeldman]

@@epektasis_shunyata That upends the argument that all are saved because God will not fail to complete his will, but then you have the question, why would God EVER EVER EVER make a person knowing full well what would happen to them or what they would do when the result is so unthinkable? It's tolerable if all are saved eventually, but all being saved eventually is predicated under the presumption that Gods will cannot fail. But then there is annihilationism, but again, did God create people with full knowledge that they would only be used for some temporary purpose and then punished and obliterated? We have free will but if God knows the outcome then he essentially chooses our path because the simulation of all our lives could be anything given it plays out a different way under different circumstances. Theres a scenario where all people believe in Christ and do so with free will, why didn't God choose that option rather than this one where most do not and we suffer countless horrors beyond imagining? Then there is eternal conscious torment and that one is the most terrifying especially for what it makes of God.

[@epektasis_shunyata]

These are good questions you're asking and I'm with you on annihilationism and ECT, but I don't see how it upends universalism. God did make the world where all good have freely chosen to do his will and in which sin never entered in, but the simple fact is we didn't which makes it all the more tragic. God can't have made it irrespective of what we want in the beginning, but the end is the same. All end up the same, just some take a little longer to get up the mountain. In my view. I don't see a contradiction.

[@suelloyd4384]

Animals arent cousins of humans.

[@epektasis_shunyata]

Did you ask him about Jesus eating meat for passover and eating fish? Thats the biggest objection people bring to me, if the Lord didnt do it, it isnt sinful. I'm still vegan BTW

[@justchilling704]

Eating meat is not sinful, any person who claims that is horribly misguided, God designed the human body to consume meat, and told Adam and Eve they could eat meat, and the fruits in the garden. This reiterated several times in the Bible, meat is associated with prosperity, blessing, and other positive connotations. If Adam and Eve (humanity prior to fall) and Jesus (God, man and only perfect human ever) ate meat it’s indeed not sinful. Veganism is a very hypocritical and false scientifically and ethically. For example, plants are living organism too, they don’t want their babies eaten either.

[@justchilling704]

Isaiah envisioned that in the eschaton we will feast on the finest of meats. Edit: And that objection is 100% solid no way around it Jesus ate meat, and in a broader sense meat and fruit, are always associated with blessing, prosperity etc. further more Adam and Eve were given dominion over both animals and plant life prior to the fall, this include the consumption of animals. Permission to eat the fruit in the garden came after permission for them to eat meat.

[@LoveUnrelenting]

That is a common objection, but I didn't bring it up. There were lots of questions to get through!

[@epektasis_shunyata]

@@LoveUnrelenting Aww shucks I would've loved to hear his response to that one. Do you have any ideas? Either way great video! Is there more forthcoming from Stephen RL Clark?

[@LoveUnrelenting]

@@epektasis_shunyata I'm not sure what he'd say really. You could try emailing him, though, I don't think he'd mind. (The worst that could happen is what happens to me quite often with DBH--no response). There will be a video with Clark talking about Chesterton out next month.

[@justchilling704]

Christianity does not teach veganism, in fact it’s quite the opposite. We are to treat animals with care, and aren’t to abuse them however God has made it clear we can and even should eat them. Humans are non-obligate carnivores. Edit: If you’re a vegan and Christian, do yourself a favor and don’t read your bias into the scriptures, understand that it’s a matter of your personal conscience, and not to push it onto other believers. I’d also encourage vegans to study more nutritional science as humans are not designed to be vegans, so when people decide to be vegan proper supplementation is a must for keeping up ideal health as much as possible.

[@desperateswabianhousewife8317]

Both shallow and childish. You strike me in need of learning how to learn.

[@justchilling704]

@@desperateswabianhousewife8317 Your reply is deeply ironic. There is humor in that many times accusations reflect the accuser and not the target of them.

[@borderlands6606]

@@desperateswabianhousewife8317 If man is another animal, he will behave in animal ways. If he is not an animal, what is it that elevates him above the animal kingdom, and how did that attribute get there?

[@Mrm1985100]

Veganism is the biblical ideal.

[@Mrm1985100]

The need for supplementation doesn't disprove veganism, it shows that people are not living in their natural environment. Omnivores take loads of supplements and medicines.

[@galaxyn3214]

If humans truly are superior to animals, then that heightens, not lessens, our responsibility to their wellbeing. In an age of sophisticated agriculture, there is no excuse to not be a vegetarian. 🥬

[@jcismyall]

If Jesus, being God , ate meat then there’s no reason to be dogmatic for ‘veganism’.

[@Mrm1985100]

@@jcismyall Doesn't mean it's right to do it today.