God’s Not Dead 2: What is Faith, Anyway?

[@mcsabreu4297]

The movie also has a very ill understanding of law. Technically, the crime Sabrina is being accused of is proselytizing in a public school, which she did not commit. The problem is that her defence strategy is to prove that Jesus was a historical figure, which does not work because, if proselytizing in a public school is a crime, it will still be a crime regardless of whether or not you can prove Jesus existed. If the heavens were to literally open up and Jesus descend onto court to prove his existence as not only a historical figure, but also as a divine entity, it would not help her case, as his existence is not what is on trial. Her best defence would be to try to convince the jury that what she said was merely the answer to a question, rather than an attempt to convert her students to Christianity.

[@piscesgrl0]

@@g7924 From my understanding (as a former teacher and social worker in several schools, in several states), I was allowed to talk about God, religions, the Bible, etc, as long as I presented it as relevant to the class and didn't try to elevate one religion over another. So, when we read the Epic of Gilgamesh in my English class, no one batted an eye when we compared it to the story of the flood in the Bible, which we used as a contemporary story and not as historical truth. Likewise, no one batted an eye when we read stuff from the Great Revival period in American history or sections of Dante's Inferno. And absolutely no one had a problem when we read MLK's Letter from a Birmingham Jail and discussed his influences. However, if I had told my students that Gilgamesh was going to hell for ripping off the Bible, or that the only way to have civil rights was to pray to Baptist Jesus in church each week, or that [insert religion] was wrong and [insert other religion] was right, then I would've potentially gotten in trouble. IMO, we do students a disservice by leaving religion out of schools - as long as it's being discussed in a historical/cultural context. So many people and movements throughout history have been influenced by religion, but a lot of people don't realize it since many teachers don't bring it up because they don't want the hassle of having to defend themselves. Same with prayer in school. Students can pray all they want, either individually or in student-formed prayer groups; schools just aren't supposed to lead the prayers or require students to participate.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

But that would literally not match the intent of these movies... celebrate their persecution complex by inventing convoluted ways in which they will "with the help of god" triumph over the persecutors...

[@TheTrueLeafless]

@@g7924 Because it goes against religious neutrality. When a teacher, someone in a position of power over their students, pushes their religion on them in a mandatory environment funded by the state, the state funds this too, which goes against this. The state is to be seperate in its actions from any religious institution.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

It reminds me of the funniest part of the Talmud, the Oven of Akhnai, whereby Rabbi Eliezer argues with other rabbis over whether a type of oven can be ritually impure. Rabbi Eliezer is losing, so he calls on a series of increasingly-dramatic miracles to prove his case, culminating in the divine voice telling the rabbis that Eliezer is right - at which point he still loses because he's outvoted three to two and the law is still majority vote. The best part is when one of the miracles causes the walls of the building they're in to collapse, at which point another rabbi tells the walls off for interrupting a legal debate and they hold still.

[@Omega0850]

The movie has a very ill understanding of truth... which is not suprising, considering what kind of people made it, and what kind of people its made for.

[@charlotte1924]

The persecution fetish here is baffling. A few years ago in the UK, if a teacher was in a gay relationship they were not allowed to even mention their partner in a way that would reveal their gender. While teachers in a straight relationship where free to talk about their partners as much as they like. It was only a few years ago that this law was lifted.

[@MWhaleK]

It's part of their identity and helps justify much of what they do. It helps keep them cultish, insular and rationalizes their attacks on everyone else as simply fighting back.

[@bob_bobsen]

Amusingly Florida’s don’t say gay bill does just this

[@Rawnblade13]

And that's the UK, imagine how bad it is in the US. It's way worse here. Thise whole movie would never happen.

[@adambomb1553]

My first grade teacher let her fiance sit in class with us. He was a nice guy but it felt really uncomfortable. God forbid a teacher wear a rainbow pin, though.

[@Evelyn_Okay]

Imagine the hypocritical outrage Evangelicals would have if the Church of Satan made an exact shot-for-shot remake of these movies about a Satanist overcoming religious persecution.

[@Blitz_Storm]

Then again I wouldn’t find Satanism as a probable cause

[@Whofan06]

It would be more realistic too. Literally any other religion than Christianity it would be more believable somebody somehow ended up on trial, though admittedly still a stretch. Like the social persecution, yeah sure but it's just so plain in the constitution that you can't actually put someone on trial for their religion in the US that it's a goofy ass plot line. A Witch being accused of selling illegal drugs and poisoning kids makes a little more sense. There's always a negative stereotypical association to criminalize cause criminalizing faith makes no sense.

[@XGriff847X]

I'd.....LOVE to see a movie like this based in Satanism.

[@guillermoelnino]

i think that would be super funny. but mega cringe as well.

[@guillermoelnino]

@@Whofan06 you have been tought all your told to hate christianity and anybody who is a christian. of course that would be you're perspective.

[@magnesiummike]

This movie has a very strange view of public schools. Even if no student had asked, it is entirely legitimate for a history teacher to give an example of a Bible verse that is consistent with the political philosophy of MLK Jr., a Christian. It is not uncommon to discuss the Bible in a high school British Literature class, because so many authors allude to it. At no point does the teacher actually preach to the students (which would be inappropriate), so the premise of the movie is absurd.

[@spandansaha168]

The entirety of western civilization is and has been influenced by The Bible for the past say 2000 years. Take up any field of study(except science to some extent), you are to bound to come across the reference of The Bible in some form or another. Philosophy, history, politics, hell even architecture. Oh, also, as an Indian who had to study Gandhian political praxis in middle school, Gandhi had been quite vocal about him being influenced by The Bible.

[@DneilB007]

@@spandansaha168 Even with the history of science, it would not be out of the question to discuss how specific Christian ideas influenced (and led, occasionally) scientific research. For instance, the Christian idea of being able to understand God through studying His creation was a fundamental part of the development of the scientific method in the west.

[@spandansaha168]

@@DneilB007 True. God had been at the center of all scientific and rational enquiry as well. For it is always presumed that the ultimate metaphysical being is God and science is just an apparatus made by us to understand metaphysics.

[@alarcon99]

I do wish school districts would take the same approach to CRT

[@martinrenard5578]

That approach being?

[@stephenschiffman5940]

Atheists, people of other faiths, and even moderate Christians: "Can we please just be allowed to exist peacefully alongside you?" Evangelicals: "WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME?"

[@DJSpacePug]

Actually though

[@williammccallum4760]

I haven't seen this movie, but as someone who is as of recently, attempting to cultivate faith, and try to live a moral life, this is the stuff I'm trying to avoid. People seem to have gotten so wrapped up in who's right about one thing, or who's right about another thing, that they forget what Jesus was all about. peaceful coexistence, faith and love, and trying your best to be the best person you can. Not hate; not arguing.

[@OthelloCyber]

This is movie is wholly absurd. Spent my entire life in church & never felt persecuted over my religion. Then again, I'm black, I was born a persecuted minority.

[@yuvalgabay1023]

The cring r/religion, r/ atheist fan vs minding his own business enjoyer

[@DJSpacePug]

As a Christian myself, I find it petty when US Christians are afraid of being persecuted when there are already so many huge problems around the world.

[@mereth13]

This needs a crossover with Legal Eagle to get the "bad court" and "bad rhetoric" critiques it so rightly deserves.

[@matthewjohnson3656]

I think he did that (or some other lawyer). The telling thing is that after this movie came out the actual ACLU made a statement saying that the position represented of them in the film in the movie is false and that they would absolutely stand by the teacher in pointing out religious motivations in historical figures.

[@NovusIgnis]

@@matthewjohnson3656 the ACLU can claim that, but the fact is that religious people have been put on trial multiple times because of this same exact reason. The intro to every end credits scene of these movies shows the cases that led to the inspiration behind making them. To claim that Christians aren't being taken to court for sharing their beliefs is ridiculous. I don't know if Muslims or other religions are taken to court as much as Christians are, but it happens frequently enough to have dozens of cases represented by just one organization. And it's always basdd on this false notion of separation of church and state.

[@matthewjohnson3656]

@@NovusIgnis Teachers shouldn't be sharing their beliefs with students. Schools are secular and teachers are government run facilities where the government cannot endorse any one religion. Teachers must abide by this. If a teacher repeatedly proselytes in school, they are likely to be fired, as they should since their position says they cannot do that while acting as a teacher. If they want to do it in their free time, thats fine. However thats not what this movie depicted. They created a scenario where a teacher is talking about religious influences on historical figures. As long as the teacher does endorse or demonize that religion, this is totally fine. But the movie puts this hypothetical teacher on trial for this. If you would like to say I'm wrong, please find me an instance where the ACLU has gone after a teacher who specifically spoke about religious influence in this manner. And don't just cite the cases in the credits of the film without looking up the details. Teachers handing out bibles to students is not the same thing as what happened in this strawman of a movie. Things like that are what happened in most of these court cases.

[@NovusIgnis]

@@matthewjohnson3656 Funny how it's always these beliefs that get attacked. A teacher wears a cross or has a Bible and it's an issue, but if someone wears a hijab that's perfectly fine. Teachers shouldn't share their beliefs? Then why do we constantly see it being acceptable for teachers to share their political beliefs with students, but it's not okay with teachers to share their Christian beliefs? No, the problem comes into play when people don't bother to understand what this country is actually about. Our rights are protected period. From the government, and from others. Government entities are allowed to practice their religion just as other people are. The idea of separation of church and state is bullshit. This isn't supported by the establishment clause or the free exercise clause. Separation of church and state is as much a constitutional right as abortion is, which is to say it isn't one. They're both the result of judicial abuse of power. When this country was founded, we held mass in government buildings. We elected our officials based on their beliefs. We didn't shun government agents for what they believed in. That didn't start happening until the judiciary system overstepped their bounds and started creating laws and policy changes according to their desires. That isn't their job. The intent of the first ammendment or the founding fathers was never to keep religion out of government, but to keep government out of religion.

[@matthewjohnson3656]

​@@NovusIgnis I have never heard of a teacher being banned from wearing a cross. You seem to have a persecution complex about this. Teachers generally shouldn't share political beliefs. Even if they do, politics has a basis in reality. A teacher can tell her students how the new healthcare bill affects teachers. Politics has to be discussed in government class. its not ok for ANY teacher to share ANY religious belief. Its not ok for a muslim to preach about Allah or a wiccan to talk about spirit communion or a mormon to pass out their books. Across the board, no one gets to do it and so no one's parents have to complain about teachers trying to convert their kids. Do you want your kids being preached at by a jehovah's witness? Kids already have enough subjects to study in school. they don't need teachers preaching to them. The establishment clause is there to say that the government as a whole or in its parts cannot favor one religion over another. A teacher is a representative of the government and is bound by this. If you don't want separation of church to be a thing (which it is and was written about by multiple founding fathers), answer this: Are you ok with mormons trying to convert your kids during precious school time? What about muslims starting class by reading a chapter from the quran?

[@Pandaemoni]

Michael: I was raised Catholic. Evangelicals: So, not Christian then.

[@AlexFenrirGochad]

Lol, I remember the pride that our church had whenever we "converted" a Catholic to Evangelicalism (though, we were technically Missionary Church, it's basically the same thing)

[@paisan8766]

Evangelicals are literally heretics

[@justjaxie]

@@veler6049 Damn those Christians why can't they be more Christian like my version of Christianity.

[@potapotapotapotapotapota]

The difference between Christians and Catholics is that the Catholics have a LOT of rituals and traditions and organisational systems. The biggest difference is that Catholics believe that the Pope is God on earth, whereas Christians believe that this is a heresy. There a lot of differences between the two and if you say there aren't then you know nothing.

[@curtisowen3233]

@@potapotapotapotapotapotano! the followers of Muhammed are the only "true" Christians! Evangelicals aren't christian at all, they just call themselves that because they claim to believe in Jesus. But many speak in tongues and love making money, so definitely not Christians. Gullible nitwits

[@MelodicQuest]

I think it was John Mulaney that said, "Nothing makes you hate Catholicism more than being raised Catholic"

[@paisan8766]

Being Catholic makes me hate Evangelicals and realize how, relative to conservative Evangelicalism, it’s just fine lol

[@davidharrison2666]

As someone who was raised catholic, it's true. I am now a satanist, and I'm feeling happier than I was when I was catholic.

[@jongon0848]

Maybe I wasn't raised Catholic enough then since I don't hate being Catholic but I do find a lot of flaws and issues with the church.

[@KenLord]

So if the split in the calendar from BC to AD is proof that Jesus exists ... then the gods Tyr, Oden, Thor, Freya, and Saturn all exist because that's where the names of the days of the week from Tuesday to Saturday come from. And the gods Janus, Mars, Maia, and Juno too, who gave us the names of some months.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Aphrodite/Venus is behind the name of April (a minor nickname of hers, but still a name used to worship the goddess of love), btw and Julius Caesar and Augustus Julius Caesar Octavianus were said to have been deified (Apotheosis), so it's seven months in total that carry names associated with greco-roman deities :) And February is a religious rite of cleansing. Not directly a god, but deeply rooted in the roman form of pagan worship.

[@idenpoelchau1656]

@@Ugly_German_Truths but since we accept that Julius Caesar and Augustus existed, we must also except that the others existed. One cant be real while the other isn't - obivously! (I am bing ironic btw)

[@AGenericFool]

​@@idenpoelchau1656 Almost as if one existence is well documented, he let statues be built of himself where he conquered and even his own Journal is still around and readable (Caesars Meditatios), while the other is only written about by others, centuries later, in often very dubious circumstances, like a tale of him raising the dead, almost reminiscent of the greek play format. Curious, maybe it's all metaphorical. I'm 14, this is #deep, thanks for coming to my Ted talk and with that I wish you a good one dear reader.

[@NovusIgnis]

Completely missing the part where there were also multiple manuscripts citing the existence of Jesus Christ, including the gospels.

[@KenLord]

@@NovusIgnis completely missing the part where all those references to Jesus existing are really just references to their being people who called themselves Christians or references to people the writers couldn't have known, claiming they knew Jesus or that jesus' brother existed? Pliny the Younger, who died in AD 113, writer of the earliest surviving third party documents that refer to Christianity, wrote of how it isn't possible to know if Jesus actually existed, based on the records available during his time. Gospels... That's cute. Are you even aware of the contradictions between the same stories told in those 4 books? They couldn't even copy the one book cleanly when it evolved into the 4 books.

[@tetsubo57]

When I saw the trailer for the first of these movies the first thought I had was, "How weak is a person's faith that they think *another* person can define *their* faith?" Just laughable.

[@Dachusblot]

When I saw the trailer, I laughed because I could only think, "No teacher would ever actually be brought to trial for saying what Sabrina said in that class." I know, I'm an English teacher. Referencing the Bible now and then is pretty much inevitable if you're talking about classic literature, and nobody's ever tattled on me or brought me to trial. The Christian persecution complex is wild.

[@tetsubo57]

@@Dachusblot I agree. Teachers are prohibited from indoctrination, not reference.

[@tetsubo57]

@@RandomGuy-jo8ky That social conservatives aren't happy unless they manufacture a persecution complex? They wear martyrdom like Gucci.

[@internalizedhappyness9774]

@@tetsubo57 when you believe in nothing martyrdom becomes the best use for your cause.

[@Relgar47]

Not only is the lawyer the Devil, but the teacher was also a teenage witch! I must have missed the episode where she was exorcised and converted to christianity

[@usernameaz602]

Clarissa explained it all in an episode of Are You Afraid of the Dark Money.

[@SinHurr]

Toss a coin to your exorcist~

[@Rawnblade13]

What's also ironic is Ray Wise was in a Star Trek episode that talked about the problems of trying to appease an unknowable deity.

[@az5428]

Ray wise also played a man who was possessed by a malicious evil spirit in twin peaks

[@royms2000]

Witches get killed, not converted (Ex. 22:18).

[@ReissTube]

“For a movie about faith, it does a really poor job of understanding it.” As a progressive Methodist pastor, I couldn’t have said it better. This poor understanding of faith has been rampant in the States for a LONG time. Case and point: the Stokes Monkey Trial isn’t resolved yet and it just makes my job harder…

[@xponen]

​@DrumWild the cult & weird version of Christianity is probably (in my opinion) being caused by liberal religious freedom. There's even religion based on sci-fi fiction (Scientism) implying that the freedom is way too much and goes overboard. Anyways, we can't fix the cult problem because everyone will thinks their religion will be squashed if freedom is cut, so it can't be fixed sadly.

[@zqxzqxzqx1]

*Case in point *Scopes trial (was resolved. Scopes was found guilty, although it was later overturned on a technicality--that the jury should have decided the fine, rather than the judge.)

[@jtgd]

Thats just evangelism. Full of peoples injections and loose interpretations

[@Jarod-vg9wq]

Love your comment and helps show many Christians don’t leak this film because it or others like it , are the total opposite of what Jesus stood for.

[@KHEENGS]

You can’t be both progressive(woke) and be a Christian.

[@DneilB007]

The makers of this movie aren’t doing Nietzsche a dirty. They are unwittingly proving that the actual point he was making is, in fact, correct.

[@dande3139]

They are misunderstanding the source... much like with everything else in the bible.

[@LaCabraAsada]

Do they even know who Nietzsche standed for? It feels like they just read the line "god is dead" and didn't bother to understand what it means

[@BlakLite15]

@@LaCabraAsada Much like how they memorized a bunch of disconnected Bible passages without bothering to understand the stories they were attached to.

[@adambomb1553]

I heard someone once say that if we were back in Biblical times, a majority of the people today who claim to be followers would be the ones calling for his crucifixion.

[@joelcarter2535]

​@BlakLite15 and you did?

[@無教会内村]

You've literally hit on something my pastor-in-training friend is constantly having his gears ground by: the utter and complete historical ignorance of American evangelical Christianity of their own faith. Heck, as a Christian, I find this video treats Christianity in a more dignified light and is a better presentation of it than the film itself.

[@valritz1489]

The real thorn at the root of that ignorance is a belief that **requiring understanding** of the religion before professing it gets in the way of saving people's souls. Which flows out of the totally skewed cost-benefit analysis that goes into evangelism. To these people (at least the sincere ones), if they aren't converting people, those people are going to experience eternal torment for the rest of time. Therefore, any questionable bullshit they pull to get people out of that is justified. Plus, the "once saved always saved" fire-and-forget mentality gives no incentive to actually learn once you're in it. Doesn't matter if the evangelist or evangelized actually understand anything about this god. Doesn't matter if they're straight-up wrong. All that matters is the head count. Which is why when a pastor gets up and claims gay folks can't be saved we wind up with horrific conversion "therapy" stories--all that matters is hell.

[@diquandaniel7953]

“Just when I thought I said all I had to say, my chick on the side said she’s got one on the way. These are my confessions.” - St. Augustine

[@artypyrec4186]

Good quote but I enjoy his other quote "I should listen to everyone but my self, because myself, told myself, that I'm the mf man and I don't need no help".

[@zenleeparadise]

@@artypyrec4186 this made me lol

[@joncn005]

How about this? "I'm the man of God, and uou all are just b****es of the devil."

[@arvinbuenaagua5161]

@@artypyrec4186 is this from Soliloquys

[@5h3nn0ng]

Poor Adeodatus (No really, St. Augustine of Hippo had a kid)

[@ryanlevi90]

As a Christian and a Pastor, please know: most of us hate these movies too.

[@OriginalMasterChafa]

Really?

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

Yes, really.

[@silverstarlightproductions1292]

Yeah, as a Christian, I wholeheartedly agree that most Christian media is not only poorly made, but also extremely self-righteous and almost propagandist.

[@Betito1171]

I find that hard to believe because they keep making them That moneys coming from somewhere lol

[@silverstarlightproductions1292]

@@Betito1171 A good budget does not a good movie make. And just because a film makes money at the box office doesn't mean that it was actually good. Look at most of the Disney remakes. Hollow shells of their preceeding counterparts, yet they make millions at the box office simply because of nostalgia. Likewise the only reason these God's Not Dead films are making any money is because they're telling a certain group of people exactly what they want to hear so they can feel good about themselves. Despite these filmmakers claims that they want to use filmmaking to teach non believers about faith, all they end up doing is preaching to the proverbial choir.

[@connorruckert8283]

Watching these videos is like therapy for me, we watched these awful movies in my youth group when I was younger and I got in huge trouble for pointing out all the flaws and toxic messages in them.

[@NothingYouHaventReadBefore]

Hah, wish I'd had half of your guts. Good on ya!

[@joelcarter2535]

Toxic? 🤨

[@grapeshot]

I love their take on the angry atheist. As if a person couldn't come to atheism just by doing their research and seeing things just are not adding up.

[@garrettvandenberg2031]

Egh, in my experience I don't know many/any atheists who don't have some kind of a fucked up past with religion. Being agnostic seems intellectually honest and fair, but the sort of resentment I see in self-proclaimed "atheists" generally seems to be a more axiomatic position than one strictly based on "evidence". And fair enough-- it may be the case that religion is a serious problem that we need to outgrow--that's a fair position to have intuitively, but I think the jury is still out when it comes to the "evidence". It's kind of hard to disprove a metaphysical construct, mythology and meta-narrative don't seem to play nice when it comes to trying to hard "research" analysis..

[@grapeshot]

@@garrettvandenberg2031 I'm an atheist but I came to my atheism on a very long path. And I wasn't so much angry when I finally left religion it was that my eyes were finally completely and totally open. And in the end it wasn't hard for me I realized I had no reason to believe in an invisible sky wizard and plenty of reasons not too. And I've seen plenty of arrogance and obnoxious among religious types. And I've had plenty get very angry at me because I won't except the whole we don't know how it works therefore God attitude.

[@jackbauer123321]

Isn't atheism the default or null state? Any religion takes an extra step and is not the default or null state. You don't "come to atheism", you just stop believing in what ever you believed in.

[@methos1999]

@@garrettvandenberg2031 Perhaps you just haven't talked religion with enough people. I suspect there's a lot of people like myself who react to religion and faith with an enthusiastic "meh". My entire life I've been unaffiliated - I used to go to a youth group at the local Methodist church when I was a kid but it was all pretty much secular activities. I personally see nothing to convince me to believe in god, and I tend to think it's best to view people and organizations by their actions, not their beliefs. So basically I'd say if pressed I'd identify as atheist, but I don't have enough invested in the conversation to be angry about it. It's almost like asking me about sports - I am not and have never been a rugby fan... not because I have a fucked up history but because I have NO history.

[@grapeshot]

@@jackbauer123321 no atheist simply means a non belief in any god or gods. It's as simple as that. And yes I did come to atheism because I've stopped believing in a god.

[@thevoidlookspretty7079]

You know what this made me realize? That the Christmas episode from “Ant Farm” had a better philosophical understanding of faith than these movies.

[@brewdaly1873]

I mean, shit, Daredevil and Serenity had a better philosophical understanding of faith than these movies.

[@SherpaQueen420]

I used to usher at a movie theater when the first of this steaming shitpile of movies was released and I gotta say: The demographic that paid to see this movie was easily the most messy of any, and I cleaned up after Frozen.

[@arthurshahzad7786]

5:19 that line is being taken out of context. Jesus is basically saying that when Christianity spreads through the disciples and others, it will be like a sword that divides even families. Which can be seen every time someone converts to another religion and their whole community, including their family often times, disowns them

[@joelcarter2535]

They don't understand

[@bigmike4133]

What I can't believe is that they made more than one of these movies. They remind me so much of the horribly written plays put on by my local church growing up. It was always a convoluted story with weird unintelligible arguments and religious warnings shoehorned in.

[@ToxicatedLum]

Looks like religious directors like money like the 'evil' people too

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

The first one made an INSANE amount of money (64.7 million return on a 2 million dollar budget), so obviously they would make more. 2 was 24.5 mn on 5 mn 3 was 7.4 mn on an unpublished budget 4 did as of yet not publish neither costs nor revenue. Usually you'd put a rough estimate of 1/3 of the box office intake making it to the studio/producers after taxes and the shares of distributors and cinemas themselves and with advertisement the price for the studio tends to be twice the officially stated budget, which in this case is probably an unnecessary high estimate as a lot of the publicity came from free reporting in christian press and talk radio... So a 5 million dollar movie budget under normal circumstances would mean at least 8-10 million actually spent to promote the product including all costs for making it and a 25 million box office haul means about 8-9 million come back to the ones making the movie. The GnD values are probably slightly lower ont he production/promotion side and slightly higher on the revenue side, but still, that is close to not make profits at all... suggesting that Movies 2 to 4 were all still supported by the 20-25 million the studio got in revenue from the first part. (lessened by the 2.5 million or so cost to bring it into theaters, which is STILL a great ratio for any movie) By now it has become a recognizable brand that pulls viewers to get its message out, so pumping a bit of the money into making more of these movies works probably better than making 12 or 15 more 2 million dollar movies and hoping for another surprise success like GnD (1).

[@zqxzqxzqx1]

I work in a Louisiana library, where these movies are popular (sadly...)

[@jevinday]

lol when I was in high school back in the mid 2000s, learning about religious figures like jesus and buddha was part of the curriculum in social studies. we didnt spend all that long learning about but it yeah...a teacher would never get in hot water for talking about something related to religion for 2 minutes haha

[@jevinday]

@@RandomGuy-jo8ky yes it is very random. i just looked it up, Chris brown has been nominated for 12 grammys since 2011, but there are people who get canceled for using the word "gay" on Twitter like 10 years ago. it's hypocritical as fuck.

[@gu4xinim]

Neither would they today, this movie is a fiction not a documentary.

[@DuchessChau]

Right. For me It was apart of world history. And all faiths as they pertained to social movements were covered.

[@OMR6468]

They are still covered this movie is just Christians complaining about not being fairly treated while they trample on everyone else's

[@maxherman3884]

as someone training to be a teacher, the only way you can get in trouble for talking about religion in school is if you recommend that your students practice or seek it out in some way. Teachers are NOT allowed to recommend religious counseling to their students in public schools (separation of church and state and all that). It's not so much persecution as saying that you shouldn't advantage one philosophy or belief system over another, our schools are meant to be impartial.

[@a.j.hernandez3537]

@11:56 I'm a "law expert" (trial lawyer). Witnesses do often turn to the jury to speak directly to them. At trial, we often will ask our witnesses, especially experts, to speak directly to the jury. It's a trial tactic that is used in courtrooms everyday.

[@leocordeiro81]

She went from “Clarissa explain it all” to “Karen know it all”

[@bluesoman]

Sad to see the teenage witch's fall from grace. I had no idea the path she went down.

[@MichaelTurner856]

She was my childhood crush to 😭

[@Eliu5564]

This video reminds of when, in first grade, the teacher would make us pray before lunch… in a NY public school lol

[@jaclo3112]

I'm guessing she only cast her magical spells over the food in the name of her Christian gods. Would be interesting to know her reaction if those spells were done in the name of the islamic god.

[@joelcarter2535]

​@jaclo3112 well there's only only God and that is Yahweh and we do give thanks in his name before we eat because we are thankful for our daily bread and who has supplied it for us. 😊

[@Kyeuss]

The commitment to the Clarissa Explains it All joke really warmed my heart

[@Ananieles]

I love this channel so much, it makes me feel like my philosophy degree didn't go to waste lol

[@sinnsage]

they make me feel like i didn’t need to go to college for that, i can just watch wisecrack 😜

[@philrobichaud3063]

the way the music swells when the "witness" is explaining how Jesus really existed tells me all I need to know about this movie...

[@jtgd]

“Can you prove Jesus exists” “Yes” “Therefore all his miracles and supernatural actions are real!” I don’t think many will deny the existence of Jesus. However it’s incredibly debatable if he was just a normal human or not. His philosophy doesn’t mean he’s actually the son of god, otherwise Alexander the Great, Caesar, Augustus, Nero and others are gods due to claims of miracles and resurrection from them

[@joelcarter2535]

Uh well Christ is the son of God by proving that he rose from the dead as prophecied many times in the book of Isaiah and many other scriptures long before God became and took on human flesh.

[@darkmyro]

I've seen a lot of Christians have this persecution complex. I think a lot of it comes from Republican rhetoric complaining about there isn't prayer in schools and etc. But I think a lot of that ignores things like no one is gonna stop anyone from praying themselves and for the devout there are still churches to help pick up any slack they feel they're not getting in public schools.

[@simel1984]

Michael: "No American government agent is going to show up at your house and make you look down the barrel of a gun because of your religious beliefs." American Muslims: yes they will.

[@sebastianfeuerstein9306]

Yeah but I think he was talking about white conservative christians. Of course, nonwhite nonchristian religious ppl do get persecuted. He acknowledged that at 17:44

[@simel1984]

@@sebastianfeuerstein9306 I have no doubt about it and he does acknowledge it. But at this specific sentence he phrased it as if it addresses all religions and not only white Christians.

[@sebastianfeuerstein9306]

@@simel1984 yeah

[@scottkidder9046]

I am Naive to this topic, but this sounds misleading to me. I know we’ve been made hyper aware of Islamophobia and that’s fine, but at least domestically, it seems a bit unlikely that the government is rounding up Muslims or holding them at gunpoint because they’re Muslim. Do you have any evidence of this?

[@sebastianfeuerstein9306]

@@scottkidder9046 Islamophobia is still bad even if Muslims aren't being held at gunpoint

[@SleepyMatt-zzz]

I've grown up Authiest (It wasn't enforced, my family just didn't talk about religion), I spent half my life trying to understand Christianity after my step dad had his weird born again moment, I've researched other religions extensively, and this stuff still sounds like insanity to me. It just seems like one giant cope for existing.

[@stefanmilicevic5322]

It is, so is everything around you and every other idea. That's life for you.

[@internalizedhappyness9774]

@@stefanmilicevic5322 how do rocks cope with existence?

[@daydelus]

@@internalizedhappyness9774 pretty well actually

[@internalizedhappyness9774]

@@daydelus hi can I be a rock, also note I would like very much like to be a rock now.

[@stiimuli]

Autheist? Is that like a person who doesn't believe in Austria?

[@rubenzavala2084]

Into the Spiderverse has a better example of faith than any of these movies.

[@jlrinc1420]

Actually for both Ghandi and King violence was crucial to achieving their ends. Both believed that unless you were seen getting your head cracked by police and soldiers you would be incapable of moving the moral needle of those in the position to make changes happen.

[@jamesrapier]

Chidi - "It's more accurately a leap into faith". I'd love to see you react to The Good Place if you haven't done so yet

[@jqyhlmnp]

“Have a little faith Arthur” And look where that shit led you

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

Red Dead II is a masterpiece. I’m thinking of starting the game again for the fourth time, probably tonight.

[@MrDalisclock]

Now I've got Red Dead Depression again

[@jqyhlmnp]

@@Nameless-pt6oj I like the part where going slightly off course fails the mission

[@JoePrice77]

“Faith” from what I’ve seen of White American Evangelical Christians,” pretty much just means “My Tribe.”

[@Where_is_Waldo]

"2 god 2 not dead" That's the only reason I'm glad they made a sequel. I wish they'd only made one sequel though, "god's not dead, dead god drift" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[@Harveygod]

God's NOT Dead: Ded 4 Life

[@user-fp4dr1ne7z]

The sword you mention from the Bible at 5:30 is a hyperbole, used to represent a thing to divide, not a literal sword that is meant for war or violence.

[@Billybob-en1mk]

Oh my God. When you said part 3 will be next holiday season, I remembered I watched your first gods not dead episode when I got covid. Thanks for the memories buddy

[@withalittlehelpfrom3]

In public high school, I wrote an essay comparing Uncle Tom with Job from the Bible, and I was never sued for writing it. So... yeah, this movie has no roots in reality!

[@hcolli]

Producer for God's not Dead 5 here, how do you feel about working with apes? We're going after Darwin this time.

[@jacquihesher5424]

😂 😂 😂

[@Harveygod]

But you already killed Kevin Sorbo in the first movie.

[@lauans010203]

this evangelical complex is called "Cristofobia" here in Brazil. "Christphobia"... in a country of 220 mi people with 200 mi christians...........

[@kaneaquino8295]

Next: A Priest Reacts To A Philosopher Reacts To God's Not Dead 2

[@JasonLaveKnotts]

It is easy to look like a genius when you have an hour and a half to parade around an army of strawmen to knock down.

[@tetsubo57]

What kills me is that social conservatives don't grasp that the separation of church and state is not only what is best for the state but what is also best for the church. But if social conservatives could use logic, they wouldn't be social conservatives.

[@DeconvertedMan]

ooo gotem!

[@joaovilaca1436]

What the religious leaders do grasp is that they if they mix religion with the state they can exert more control over their sheeple.

[@azzazelo]

@@joaovilaca1436 exactly, it's about power influence and cash. Has nothing to do with their bullshit Jesus or even their religion in general. That's why it's a problem

[@guillermoelnino]

you would have no problem with mosque and state. because muslims hate america too.

[@azzazelo]

@@guillermoelnino places like Alabama and Mississippi are a lot like Iran in many ways yes. Yet. They claim themselves patriots

[@TQDRUMMER07]

These God’s Not Dead videos are my favorite! Can’t wait for 3 and 4!

[@JCasR3]

4!? FOUR!? How many of these movies are there???

[@joelcarter2535]

3 and 4 are actually very good

[@michaelbuell7032]

Thank you for bringing up the guy from Reaper…not enough people know about Reaper and every time I bring him up in this or as a priest in Psych I just get a blank stare.

[@robertszynal4745]

He was a baddie in Robocop too

[@internalizedhappyness9774]

You mean that one episode where that one roommate drugs the other one and she accidentally falls off a building and dies and then they think it’s the priest that Gus knows who does it because Sean is uncertain but he finds the pills which leads him to believe that The priest drug the girl to make exorcisms of things so that way you would still be relevant but then find out it was the original roommate who did it and he Frees Gus’s old pastor from almost being convicted of murder that he didn’t commit because Sean figures out that the original killer roommate that killed the other girl faked an exorcism while they were in the room to throw them off and the father well just didn’t really notice the difference because you know religion. Psych that’s a show!

[@ThatGuysAlright]

Sabrina the teenage witch was my first sexual feelings; but now I’m the one feeling thoroughly violated, philosophically

[@abdiabdi3225]

maybe that will be a new kink

[@jwillsher80]

Wow, Sabrina / Clarissa totally pulled off the bitter and angry evangelical with a persecution complex. I don’t need to even watch it to see that. This movie has got to be a clear example of political pornography.

[@JBAIMARK3]

I cant even sit through something like that ironically, it just makes me cringe that there exists so many people that fundamentally just don't get the arguments being put against religion, let along it's place in a classroom, they literally have to invent a story where they can play hero and avoid any controversial issue caused by rigid adherence to the rules laid out in their mythos. "Hey Miss, even if you hold those teachings to be of a benefit to you, why should we accept it as true over any other texts we/you also presume to be fictitious? What is the minimum bar you would need to adopt a new faith tomorrow? Are you only retaining a religion rather than seeking truth? If you could cross over into a universe without god, would you be able tell the difference? If god tells me to hurt people, should I?"... none of this, just mustache twirling sociopaths with a bee in their bonnet.

[@WarpScanner]

As the video explains, they don't even understand the best arguments *for* religious faith. Like, I think the highly regarded theologians this video cites still base their ideology in dumb and absurd philosophical foundations but they're miles and miles better than "God's Not Dead" 's jibberish.

[@Cybermat47]

Holy shit, it’s Frank Pierre, creator of seen it, saw it art and the owner the Pierre Resort and Casino - the only casino built on Native American land that is *not* owned by a Native American (and he’s proud of that fact)!

[@MC-yt1uv]

The AD/BC argument is funny to me when our days are named after Norse gods and are months after Roman gods.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

the only dumber argument I've ever heard is that people only say 'god damnit' or 'jesus christ' as expletives because they subconsciously believe those things are real.

[@joelcarter2535]

​@@Keira_Blackstonewell then why don't people take the name of Buddha in vain or Mohammed and his god allah for that matter? 🤔

[@doomgod314]

We need more philosophical dives into these movies.

[@danyosuna7276]

For people who claim to know a lot about jesus they do not know a lot about laws, or acting...

[@camelopardalis84]

Why would knowing a lot abou Jesus come with knowledge about laws or acting?

[@flowingafterglow629]

As an instructor in a pubic institution, if that topic came up like that, "So like Jesus, then?" my response would be to couch it as "Jesus in the bible says...." At that point, it's referencing a literary character and not saying anything regarding religious beliefs. I could just as easily say, "In Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Hermione says...."

[@kylemiller6560]

Love how they can't decifer between being laughed at and being persecuted

[@Curttehmurt]

thank you for making that Reaper connection whenever I see Ray Wise I'm always like "look it's the Devil from Reaper" and no one knows what I'm talking about. He's undoubtedly one of the best actors to play the Devil next to Mark Pellegrino and Tom Ellis imho

[@hhhieronymusbotch]

Hey I really enjoy this series, but just need to fact-check a couple of points: 1. On the point of Jesus saying "I did not come to bring peace but a sword", this is often misinterpreted in a similar way to Nietzsche's "God is dead" statement. Matthew Chapter 10, where it comes from, is a passage where Jesus talks to his disciples about the betrayal, violence, arrests and persecution THEY will face; in particular in that specific part he is talking about how even their friends and family will turn on them. At no point in the passage does he encourage THEM to use violence but instead he tells them to "take up their cross". In fact near the beginning of it he says “I am sending you out like SHEEP among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes & AS INNOCENT AS DOVES". This is in addition to the numerous other statements Christ makes about returning violence with grace kindness and forgiveness (eg "turn the other cheek"). The early church itself fully rejected the use of violence and it wasn't until hundreds of years later and much roman imperial influence that church leaders began to endorse the use of violence. 2. On the point of Gandhi not being influenced directly by Christ; the opposite is true, as Gandhi sited 'The Sermon on the Mount' as a direct inspiration for his political strategies. Otherwise, great video guys. These films are a freaking abomination and I appreciate you dissecting their BS with precision. Blessings!

[@aSUGAaddiction]

Thank you for making that distinction of that verse.

[@aryaver]

Yeah, I think it's okay for him to cherry pick some verses. That's all anyone does, anyway

[@rvch883]

I thought he was going to mention that time when Jesus flipped tables and whipped the merchants out of the Temple

[@hhhieronymusbotch]

@@aryaver I think context is important no matter who we quote. If it's important to not misquote Nietzsche, it's important to not misquote Matthew.

[@hhhieronymusbotch]

@@rvch883 Ha fair. Though one moment of upending furniture and waving rope at some coiny bois, doesn't count as an endorsement of systematic socio-political violence 🤣

[@bibianaguadalupeislasherre9880]

A third movie was made in 2018 called "God's Not Dead 3: A Light in the Dark" and they also made a fourth movie titled "God's Not Dead 4: We the People" released in 2021.

[@seanodeli7031]

Never saw this but lord gods not dead was all the talk when I was still a church goer then I saw it rolled my eyes at it As for public school and religion I had several teachers mention or use the Bible in both public school and college Ghandi was inspired to non-violence by Thoreau Civil Disobedience Gotta give you credit for the Reaper shout out nobody remembers that show

[@SKippySounds]

I actually can't wait for you to dive into the third one. It's probably the only film in the franchise that actually tries to be genuine and have something to say

[@jmclen7]

I’ve been talking about the Evangelical persecution complex for most of my life without realizing it was recognized as a thing. God’s Dead Not! is basically said complex in movie form. I say that. No way would I actually watch that nonsense. Also, Soren Kierkegaard is a man after my own heart. That dude sees things the way I do. In my personal view, faith is what we believe about the things we don’t know. Not what we’d like to believe, choose to believe or pretend to know. I think faith by that definition is vital to the success of the human race and I apologize for the rant. Those movies just trigger me I guess. 😆

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

That persecution complex is definitely real and born from the desire to finally see the world end like promised in so much of the new testament with an emphasize on Revelation. They read that in the last days faith will be persecuted, so they could admit that they still enjoy a position of privilege that only is in danger if they overreach and try to hurt other people's faith with theirs by imposing laws or other stipulations on them (like owning a hospital and forbidding even necessary medical measures based on faith arguments) OR they can come up with a fictitious war on their faith and its free execution and make movies like this to "prove it"... including a triumphant victory at the end converting the scoffers and persecutors to their point of view and everybody praying smilingly into the sunset. Anybody needing help to find the side they went with?

[@jmclen7]

@@Ugly_German_Truths Exactly. They both need to believe they’re the oppressed (to fulfill what they believe is Biblical prophecy) and crave the kind of power that would make them the oppressor. It’s a dangerous delusion. I grew up around it but never bought into it. Jesus was executed by the state. He didn’t play golf with Pilate.

[@sydssolanumsamsys]

speak english cracka

[@davidmireles9774]

Dude I’m binging your channel! I wish your KZbin video reviewing the first God is Not Dead movie came out closer to the time when I had watched the film and had religious discussions around it with friends. 😂 your spot on according to my ways of seeing this, and the humor jabs and graphics. I’m subscribing. Lol 🤜🏼🤛🏽

[@Zevelyon]

“I did not come to bring peace, but a sword” is the sword of his word… hence the turning man against his father etc… he’s bringing teachings that will contradict the establishment of his society…

[@Khemist82]

Luke 22:36 "Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." He meant an actual sword not a metaphor.

[@Zevelyon]

@@Khemist82 this in a totally different context. Near the end of the narrative when Jesus is describing the persecution his followers will face after his death. This is an affirmation of self defense and does nothing to support your conclusion that Jesus meant a literal sword in the verses I originally addressed. In fact, a short time later Peter draws his sword and cuts the ear off of the lieutenant to the Jerusalem priest who is there to arrest Jesus. Jesus immediately rebukes him and heals the man’s ear.

[@marshallgriffin57]

@@Khemist82 Those are two different situations with completely different context. The only similarity is the mentioning of a sword.

[@Jominer08]

at 5:17 it’s not literal it means he came to battle unbelief, and as you read on you see this

[@phillipjohn4800]

Evangelical persecution complex is what it's called! I experienced this all the time in Catholic school. They made it sound like it was being attacked because that one supreme court Judge was being criticized and catholics were persecuted a 1500 years ago in rome 🙄🙄🙄

[@carolinahernandez627]

But the Catholics and Christians were persecuted before

[@eugeb3946]

The Catholic Church spent 1500 years persecuting...

[@Joaquin546]

@@eugeb3946 XD More like 2000!

[@nosinsnolights9319]

@@carolinahernandez627 yeah, for like 50-100 years and then later they decided to prosecute the rest of ideologies for a thousand years. And despite the atrocities they committed, they're making these pitiful movies so some of the dumbest believers out there (hopefully not too many) can fall into the prosecution complex.

[@carolinahernandez627]

@@nosinsnolights9319 oh I didn't know they killed thousands of Buddhists monks and Hindus. Dude they persecuted each other. Just stfu already because they were persecuted in the past and they continue to be persecuted in smaller countries. Btw Muslims and Hinus persecuted Buddhists.

[@nicoleallen266]

I teach humanities courses at the college level, and as a Christian, I really want to integrate your points from this video in my class next semester. The anti-intellectualism in Christianity is baffling considering the rich history of Christian thinkers throughout the past centuries, many of which are mentioned in this video. The pseudo-intellectualism that has taken its place puts so much emphasis on American conservative values. I teach at a Christian university and I am actively trying to get students to interrogate the rampant white evangelical persecution complex. *As a note, persecution of Christians has, of course, existed in the past (thinking about the Roman Empire) and actively in other countries. However, that does not necessitate or justify the American brand of panic at the perceived loss of Christian values/freedoms in this country currently. Thanks for the great content!!

[@brookejon3695]

This movie series is such a bombardment of cringey strawmen.

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

I disagree, but I agree that it’s not a very good movie.

[@MeaninglessName1234]

Agreed, but so is this analysis.

[@brookejon3695]

@@MeaninglessName1234 It's not a strawman if the argument being repeated and attributed to an entity is the same argument that was made by that entity

[@brookejon3695]

@@Nameless-pt6oj Have you seen any of these movies? The atheists/antitheists in the movies are textbook examples of strawmen. None of them have reasonable, rational, or real arguments against religion. They're all just mad at god and rebelling against "Him." How much more straw could you even stuff in?

[@CharlotteSWeb-oh7ou]

@@MeaninglessName1234 So you don't know what a strawman is, either.

[@andrewwerner5992]

I literally turned off this movie because I was so frustrated that not one person pointed out she didn't do what everyone is claiming she did. They were really close in the "dinner date with the lawyer" scene, but she doubles down as if she actually was trying to tell her students what to believe, not just quoting a thing that exists.

[@jamesdosdall8391]

As a Christian, these movies make me sad. These movies make everyone think we're all imbeciles.

[@davidmireles9774]

I love how you animated the graphics along making the points made. Very visually easy to understand the points. 🙏🏼

[@Sgublaka94]

Happy holidays and may Dog bless us all ❤️

[@Kevin-cy2dr]

Thank you Jesus

[@joelcarter2535]

2nd peter 3:3 "come in the last days scoffing and following their own evil desires."

[@GrassesOn97]

“Jesus H. Christ, they’re back” - God

[@Prosomeday43]

I would love to see a philosophy of yakuza like a dragon or a philosopher reacts to it. Some of the surface level philosophies aren’t to deep but the more you listen to players dialogue and their philosophies/cultures it really starts to gain a lot of depth

[@companymen42]

Everyone: *minding their own business* Evangelical conservative southern white Christians: “STOP PERSECUTING ME!”

[@RealLukeWilson]

Look, all I know is that I used to go to state schoolboard meetings in Kentucky and we always prayed before lunch. I straight up pointed out that it violated the separation of church and state, and made me uncomfortable. I was told that I didn't have to pray if I didn't choose to, but I shouldn't drag everyone else down to my level. I got nasty looks from everyone before lunchtime for the next several meetings. (For the record, I'm not religious, but my mom is, and as a teacher she also found it wrong to pray in a government meeting.)

[@jaclo3112]

and if you dare go about your business and talk while they cast their magical spells to their gods, they will screech at you to be silent and still until they are finished.

[@benwasserman8223]

Whatever faith is, I hardly think the God’s Not Dead franchise is a good place to learn about it. This stuff is cringe evangelist propaganda in its worst form.

[@OneOfTheLostOnes]

we appreciate your sacrifice.

[@teh201d]

14:13 had me laughing my ass off. "Devout atheist"

[@joelcarter2535]

Do you know who James Warner wallace is and that of Lee strobel?

[@lauraberg6272]

This type of rhetoric when I was growing up made me so confused when I went to college and realized the professors brought up faith and religious themes a lot in our class work (English first, then humanities, ect). I kept thinking my English professor was going to get in trouble, but lo and behold never did. He was a former Jesuit and brought up faith themes a lot in the works we studied. No one gets in trouble for mentioning faith or Jesus in American colleges. At least not the ones I went to. PS: the were community colleges but still not Christian colleges.

[@clockworkcthulhu8195]

It make me so happy there is two more of these. and I find the argument for Jesus existing hilarious I mean it's easy to prove you can buy his CDs he goes under the name GG Allin. perhaps some will say it's a different guy with the same name and I will say the relevancy of the rock star and the historical person existing is the same just because one time in history that was a guy name Jesus do not prove anything in the Bible except for the was a guy name Jesus. There is also a religious writer in the 2nd century BCE a lot of Jesús' and people nickname Jesus^^

[@sammosaurusrex]

I remember when my College’s creationist club screened the first one on our campus like it was yesterday

[@corngreaterthanwheat]

Gotta love the scene of a white dude mansplaining MLK to a Black woman. Something tells me this isn't winning the Oscar for diversity behind the camera 😂😂😂

[@christophervelez1561]

I can’t wait for the next philosopher reacts.

[@NattyWheat]

I feel like we need LegalEagle on this one

[@JimmyBoots1986]

5:50 It was a nice of the televangelists to lend their house for this scene.

[@Dan-ud8hz]

The whole franchise is proving Nietzsche right.

[@talideon]

Yup! It's all very much stomping on historical Yeshua's face while screaming "you're real and God because you put money in my pocket, right? RIGHT?!"

[@teobsantos100]

Hey Michael, great video! Pleeeeeease make more "A Philosopher Reacts to..." videos! I feel like the channel is more and more lacking philosophy-related videos, and this are actually my favorite ones.

[@ndrecampos]

Trying to convince people of the existence of God using a secular thing like a movie, clever indeed

[@ChrisLincoln]

Ray Wise was AMAZING as the devil in Reaper. He's charming and fun and absolutely evil.

[@Rockmanxpr]

Michael is our Jesus, watching this hellish crap so we don't have to :)

[@sisyphusvasilias3943]

Watching GND is like enjoying watching a snotty toddler cry when they're appropriately reprimanded.

[@juanmanuelpenaloza9264]

My theory: If God is real, then he left for milk and cigarettes two thousand years ago.

[@artypyrec4186]

Well let me introduce you to the good and evil God religion. Everything in old testament was the evil God, flooding, killing of offspring ect. Everything in New testament is the good God, forgiving, loving, blah blah blah

[@moisessalazar4432]

At 11:04 is funny that Kant is cited here. Kant was categorically wrong in that quote and others like euclidean geometry was the only valid space(didn't included time!) model. San Augustine clearly prove that faith is not the mere denial of knowledge.

[@colemiller9629]

Legitimate question. I used to be christian, now I'm agnostic, but I have a lot of atheist friends. No one I have ever met questions the existence of a person named Jesus who died on a cross. I have never met anyone in my life that thought that because it doesn't matter. How would proving that he existed make any difference? I haven't seen the movie so maybe I am misinterpreting what they are saying, but to me proving Christianity is true because Jesus existed is like trying to prove Christianity true because the bible exists.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

There's more tangible evidence for the historicy of John Smith than Jesus and yet most of Christians are not Mormons 😱 Idk man. Being raised in a mostly Christian culture and surrounded by lazy apologetics makes people assume strange things. They rarely critically examine their beliefs since you know, they have the Truth. Confirmation bias (thing we all suffer from) doesn't help

[@BalikTrollbane]

I respect your opinions but let me just say this. Correct me if I'm wrong but agnostic is where you dont know if there is a God, right? From an atheist point of view the world is built on chance and all we do and feel is the result of chemicals...kinda like a soda can (some people fizz more than others)...if that is the case then there is zero meaning to anything we say, do, or feel. Your love is not actually love and your hate isnt hate. Morality wouldnt exist...yet you feel these things. Theism is about how life came into being from a devine purpose. If I had to choose between life being utterly meaningless (atheism) and life/humanity having purpose (theism) given by God, I would choose the latter. But that's just my opinion.

[@shannonantonchak149]

I will only say this. I was helping in my daughter's classroom one day in her 2nd grade year and one of the kids asked me "Why doesn't (my daughter) believe in Sants Clause?" I replied, "Because we believe Christmas is Jesus's Birthday and so that's his day". I was later pulled into the principal's office and told I was not allowed to say that. I was never allowed back to help with her class. I was completely and utterly stunned! Especially since this was after this movie came out and I was sure it was exaggerated.

[@SupremeVerdict]

I hate when people say "How would evangelical Christians react if we taught *insert Satanism or some other religion* in schools?" I'm telling you, you don't want to open that box. 1. Keep the crazy out of school and only teach facts. 2. They will claim to be teaching other religions equally, but won't. And even when discussing other religions, it will be through a Christian lens or how they have it wrong or how the others are cute, but Jesus was the real deal.

[@VictorPerez-vu1fo]

I like the way you think. It's true, most of the time we teach or explain through our own biased position and religion is no different. To think that other religions are taught with similar time/weight is folly. But also to think that they will keep to strictly facts in a social setting set to form the "citizen" of tomorrow is also innocent to say the least. Everything will exert their own biased pressure over others. We've come out of that system as who we are because of the same fact and the fact is that feelings do hold sway and plenty of it.

[@SupremeVerdict]

@@VictorPerez-vu1fo they would LOVE the chance to "teach" Christianity. And then they would pre- I mean teach that their version of Christianity is the true Christianity and they wouldn't keep it historical.