Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) Starter Kit #1 (SK 1) Unboxing / Multi-Man Publishing (MMP) | Wargame

[@matiaq]

Great suggestions. Zil! I was hesitant about investing in the starter kit but you’ve changed my mind

[@ZillaBlitz]

Thanks, Mat! I'd be curious to hear how you like it when you get going on it. I'm enjoying it enough that I've been considering shifting to the Beyond Valor module, but I definitely want to play a broad range of games, so I'm not sure I'll ever try to build the whole collection. :)

[@coryhoggatt7691]

“Investing.” They’re some of the cheapest games around.

[@ThymeKeeper]

I was really excited to see this. I have some experience with ASL, but mostly with SK1. It is really pretty easy to learn. There are some rules about support weapons I find confusing, but mostly it revolves around movement, line of sight, and defensive fire. You have to have the mindset that offensive fire is something you do rarely and that the game is about putting yourself in a position to limit the opponents maneuvering so they have to expose themselves to defensive fire. I used to have quite a few of the full ASL modules, but I wasn't using them so I sold off everything other that Beyond Valor, the rules, and the starter kits. At this point I doubt I will ever play full ASL. The SKs are a pretty full experience and I just don't have it in me to learn ASL with all of the other games I am trying to learn. It really is a lifestyle game. Between the different SKs, expansions, and some stuff available free online, unless you really want to commit hard to it, you should be good for a long time and a lot of gaming.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Thanks for the thoughts, Marc! That's the one thing I didn't realize, that the SK rules are quite different from the ASL rules, and that there really is a universe of SK stuff to play if you decide to not go full tilt into full ASL. I'm curious to see how I like the SK. I'll probably try to read the rules next week. With so many other games to play, I am a bit hesitant to go full into ASL, as I think it's somewhat of a "play everything else or play ASL" sort of choice. But we'll see!

[@madddog6790]

@@ZillaBlitz Don't know how far into the ASLSK you are now, but if you think you want to take the plunge into full ASL, Beyond Valor is actually in print now :). I played quite a bit of ASL back in the day, then kinda moved on to some of the newer squad level games. I bought the starter kits a while back, but it didn't take long for me to want to go back to the full version. The mains reasons: Concealment, Heat of Battle, Bypass Movement, and Fire Lanes add so much more to the equation for not *that* much more overhead. The starter kits are a great deal though (IF they're in print, I don't know when the last time all 3 of them were available at the same time) to stick your toe in the waters. You could have a lot of fun with them and never move on to the full game, so I think in that regard, MMP has done what they set out to do.

[@SoloBattles]

This was a really fascinating trip down memory lane. I was in high school when Squad Leader first came out in 77(or 78?). I lived and breathed it for about 3 years or so. Then I moved on to other games. Never took the time to get into AH's ASL. I bought the rules and read them, but wasn't playing anymore. It's an interesting observation, that although squad level tactical combat is very complex and theoretically the most "realistic," it is probably the least realistic, as a simulation. All that aside, I always had a lot of fun playing the game!

[@ZillaBlitz]

Now that sounds like an interesting conversation, on the realism aspect of it. I've gotten a bit sidetracked in this journey, but I have subsequently picked up Beyond Valor and am hoping to dig in over the winter. :)

[@SoloBattles]

@@ZillaBlitz Simply looking at it from a command perspective, in a general sense, Pub Battles really makes you feel like an army commander. For all its detail, ASL doesn't teach you anything about fighting at the tactical level in WWII. You have no idea how to organize a company or regiment. The battle plays out more like a choreographed bar fight, than actual combat. It is a fun game, but it is a very qualified "simulation."

[@ZillaBlitz]

I confess I haven't played enough of ASL to have much of an opinion on it yet, I'll be curious to see how I feel after I get some more scenarios in. And I'm looking forward to a Pub Battle! :)

[@timothysmith6549]

Nice intro to ASLSK Zilla. I played Squad Leader back in the day and got into ASLSK and then full ASL with Beyond Valor and For King and Country. I had fun with it but ultimately the rules overhead just became too much. People call ASL a lifestyle game and for me it was, there was no way I could play other games as if I spent more than a few weeks away from it, the rules started to fog and I'd spend more time reading rules than playing. It's an epic system and rightly highly regarded, and like I said I had fun with it but i play a lot of other wargames and because of that, I'm one of those for who it just became too much. It was a game I really did end up spending more time flicking through the rulebook than moving counters around the map. After having it recommended to me I gave Old School Tactical a go and it was like an epiphany - the same WOW feeling I got when I first discovered Squad Leader in a fantastically elegant rule system. For me it delivers the SL/ASLSK/ASL experience with 10% of the rules density. If you can I'd highly recommend giving it a go Zilla. I've played a lot of WWII squad level systems but OST is the one which I finally went "this is the one."

[@ZillaBlitz]

Very nice summary and thoughts, Timothy. I've very much heard that ASL is a lifestyle game, and that's one reason I've been hesitant. I do want to learn the system, though, and play some. I definitely don't want it to be the only thing I play, so I'm not sure how that will work out. I'm starting in on Lock 'N Load Tactical at the moment, and have heard good things about Old School Tactical too. Definitely something to consider for the future! :) Thanks for all the thoughts, very helpful!

[@timothysmith6549]

@@ZillaBlitz LNL is great Zilla, very good system and lots of fun too but for me OST just hit all the buttons that I wanted in a WWII tactical squad level game and for me, was just so much better. It plays beautifully solo too because of the impulse system without the need for dedicated solitaire rules. And graphically it's one of the best looking tactical games. I think that you'll really enjoy LNL but watching your videos and the kinds of rules systems and complexity you like I reckon you'd love OST.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Thanks much! Definitely added to the list of things to check out. :)

[@vinsal072]

Nice review. I remember playing the original squad leader. It was a great game, bought the next two expansions, Cross of Iron and Crescendo of Doom, then stopped - because the rules got to be too much.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Haha! I have Cross of Iron and Crescendo of Doom unpunched in my box of games from when I was playing 20-25 years ago. For me it was marriage/kids that ended the progression, but same idea. :)

[@sonoftherabbitpeople4737]

I went on to GI: Anvil of Victory and the rules got very cumbersome by then. So when ASL came out, I jumped right in and found that the rules, voluminous as they are, actually simplified and standardized things very well I found. A lot of the rules you don't need all the time also, like desert or jungle rules, special Japanese rules, etc.

[@rodento3220]

Yeah I sent many hours with that binder and inserts reading and play testing to make sure I understood...

[@jimdasselvasbrasil5488]

Simply a luxury, Zilla! I just got started in this fantastic world of board games, and I started this challenge for ASL, poor me! I'm dying to see your narrative of this wonderful game!

[@ZillaBlitz]

Nice! Welcome aboard! ASL is a bold place to start, for sure! Best of luck! I have started playing the first scenario from this one, and things are making more sense now. The rules are less of a challenge than I imagined, but I imagine I'm making some mistakes still, too. :)

[@davet010]

I had a look at that - then my brain reminded me that I already have 1 full time job and don't need another one. It also seems quite difficult to get hold of over here in the UK, even on Ebay. I'd be interested to see it on the channel though.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Hahaha! Yes, I'm wondering about that too. I'm interested to see how much it takes to get comfortable with the ruleset in SK#1. I'm in no hurry, but do want to make sure I've got time to learn/play a variety of games, not solely one system. :)

[@thelastmotel]

It really isn't hard to find in the UK, you just have to go off the beaten track, and look for specialist stores.

[@wayneclingman2328]

I recall the old Squad Leader from A.H. back in the day

[@ZillaBlitz]

Yes, that's the one I've played, a long ways back in time. :) I think I had about 5-10 hours in. I remember trying to figure out sewer movement in Stalingrad.

[@ThymeKeeper]

I still have some of that :). The old school games still have a lot of appeal for me.

[@BobK58]

Avalon Hill is one reason I am such a geek today. If I could only pick one wargame ASL would be it.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Ha! And yes, ASL would be a great pick for the "you get one wargame on a desert island" question. So much gaming and variety in the system.

[@rodento3220]

Oh wow, I played ASL back in the 90s... and it was a beast! keep in mind there are expansions, if you want armor, artillery, and other stuff you need more so you are looking at over $100....

[@ZillaBlitz]

I figure if I can learn this game, I can learn any game on the planet! :)

[@rodento3220]

@@ZillaBlitz If you really want game to overload your mind with find a copy of the old SPI game Air War. Oh my god. lol

[@ZillaBlitz]

Wait. There is something harder than ASL? :)

[@I_Don_t_want_a_handle]

No one has ever learned this game in its entirety, not even the developers! 😀

[@adalic3131]

I ordered this. We will see. Thanks for the review

[@ZillaBlitz]

I hope you enjoy it. It's quite the system! :)

[@whovian223]

I look forward to the eventual video! I already mentioned on Twitter my sad ASL experience. But I played all the way up to CoD when I was in college. I had all four (even GI: Anvil of Victory) but my opponent graduated before we could get there. We were playing each scenario in order.

[@ZillaBlitz]

I'm into the first turn in a learning scenario now, getting a bit bogged down in sorting through rules, which is to be expected at first. Lots of Defensive fire options! ~ It sounds like you had a great time playing before? Even from the barest scratching of the surface that I've done so far, it really seems like a remarkable system. I'm looking forward to getting some liftoff once I get through the initial learning bump here. :)

[@whovian223]

@@ZillaBlitz oh yeah, the original system was great. After college, I had no opponent so even though I bought the ASL rulebook and the first three modules, they never got played. *sniff*

[@ZillaBlitz]

With those complex games, that really can become a thing, can't it? I'm hopeful now that we seem to be reaching the end of the pandemic to connect up with the local wargaming club, and that more people will be coming out to play.

[@coyi51]

Looks a good game and at a reasonable price, this side of the pond however might prove expensive. The only version I have found here is Deluxe Advanced Squad Leader at £90. Excellent review.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Interesting that they're hard to get where you are! I ordered mine direct from MMP, but I imagine international shipping is expensive still.

[@thecustardprophet8434]

I'm pretty sure OLP had one of these games on her channel. It was complex, but I enjoyed the playthrough.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Yes, she's done a couple of playthroughs with this, you're correct. She's used the full ASL rules, not the Starter Kit rules, which are simpler. She's ADVANCED. :)

[@HissyCat]

Such a good unboxing and description of the Starter Kit. So much I can learn from you, Sir. =)

[@ZillaBlitz]

Thank you, Hissy Cat! It was fun to do, and we can all learn so much from each other! I love the concept and execution of the series you are doing with learning the ASL SK system. Must watch for anyone learning the system: tinyurl.com/y7wxsvum

[@chuckterrell6086]

Thanks for a great video. I just ordered this.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Happy to help! I'd be curious to hear how you like it when you get it to the table. :)

[@MyParedrus]

Very nice overview of a game I was fearful of :) And thanks for sharing Hissy Cat's series!

[@ZillaBlitz]

Thanks Panos! And yes, Hissy Cat's series is really interesting as he makes his way through the system. Highly recommended! :)

[@Qarlo99]

I'm glad I found your channel. I started with Avalon Hill games in 1965, and I bought just about everything from them, and then SPI, through about 1980. By then, I had been in the Army for over six years, and during the constant redeployments all my treasures were lost (stolen) during a move. I never did get the ASL series, although I drooled about it, but real life prevented it. Now I'm an old fogey, and I'm trying to get back into it, and ASL is one of my points of focus--I was a Squad Leader fanatic while I was still wargaming. I went to the MMP site, but it seems that the Rulebook is no longer available, except in other formats. Since I'm a techno-moron, I'd prefer the buy everything all printed and bound for me, but if that is no longer an option, what do you suggest for getting it all. I do have Starter Pack 1 on the way, though. Thanks

[@ZillaBlitz]

Awesome! I wonder how long the ASL rules will stay out of print on the MMP site. I would think they would get them available quickly, but I suppose it could take a while? Might be worth emailing them about it? I've been told that the best route for non-paper versions is the PDF version from Wargame Vault: www.wargamevault.com/product/344879/Electronic-Advanced-Squad-Leader-Rulebook You have access to future updates, which is always helpful.

[@Qarlo99]

@@ZillaBlitz Thanks!

[@Deltium5683]

Thanks

[@ZillaBlitz]

My pleasure, Richard, thanks for stopping in. :)

[@stevek517]

It's a starter kit for those who have a background in hex and counter games, rather than for h&c beginners. The rule book is very little more than a poorly indexed book of densely formatted rules. If MMP want to attract new players, they need to break the system down into accessible chunks (Atlantic Chase, Jaws of the Lion) rather than continue to rely on the good will of existing players to teach via vassal.

[@ZillaBlitz]

A fully developed learning arc for ASL would be a fascinating project, for sure. I can definitely see your point, though. I loved the teaching that Jaws of the Lion provided. To be fair, I think almost every wargame could benefit from a model like that. I'm looking forward to exploring Skies Above Britain for that very reason. I've heard the teaching system is excellent.

[@valensinclair6750]

ASLSK can easily be picked up by any wargamer without "the good will of existing players" (which there's nothing wrong with). Yes, the rulebook could have been written and organized better, but I the SK1 rulebook is only 11 pages. That's absolutely spartan compared to almost any hex-and-counter game. I think the entire SK ruleset is 33 pages, and you've learned 80% of the core ASL rules. The majority of full ASL rules are optional/situational.

[@coryhoggatt7691]

Chapter J of the ASL rulebook is a guided tutorial. There are also LOTS of vids online that can teach you to play.

[@Stumptonian1]

For some reason I thought ASL had larger scale maps. This looks a lot like the original Squad Leader. Used to play the original in the early 80s but was turned off when their promise of a new binder-related rule set turned out to be this very-expensive-at-the-time restart. I would be interested to see how it differs from the original.

[@ZillaBlitz]

I'm not even sure how the Starter Kit differs from the full ASL now, to be honest. I played the original Squad Leader a couple of times but that was 30 years ago, so I don't really remember much. I do hope to bring this game to the channel, it's quite a bit of fun, and I'm tempted to continue with the series, when they become available again. :)

[@orbitalair2103]

ASL adds a lot of detail to the original SL. It organized and fixed all the issues of the orig SL gammettes and addons. The electronic RUlebook really does fix the problems with updating rules, as MMP says we will get free updates, and WargameVault keeps your records and will tell you when updates are available. Just need MMP to hold up their end of the deal. I got the SL+gamettes and then ASL+all modules since 1980. I still like playing the original SL by itself. Its a really good system.

[@DragonsAteOurName]

This is another one of those games that makes my head kind of tired just by looking at the rule-book. And I find that funny because I read roleplaying rulebooks all the time, where you have like 200 pages of just rules and I do that and enjoy it. But something about how these are set up just make me go 'nah'. I feel like that's a real shame sometimes.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Maybe there were cost decisions, but I tend to agree that making rules more visually appealing can help engagement. Large blocks of text tend to be less inviting, for sure.

[@JoeKundlak]

I wonder why the system did not evolve with the changing times... yes, it's hard to teach old horses new tricks (and invalidate shelves of product), but ASL(SK) feels very cumbersome and deprecated. One just has to look at the heap of new wargames with many interesting game mechanisms being introduced constantly, that elegantly handle even complex in-game simulations...

[@ZillaBlitz]

Boy, I feel like this would be (or is) a fascinating topic among dedicated ASL players? I mean, I could see some people being totally in favor of the idea and others being, like, "Blasphemy!" I'd be very curious what dedicated ASL players would say.

[@Frank08046]

What's with unmounted maps?

[@ZillaBlitz]

I think all ASL maps are unmounted, maybe? Not sure, but I know it's done to keep costs down. :)

[@Frank08046]

@@ZillaBlitz Thanks. That's what I've been told by other companies. But Avalon Hill did it. Worthington does it now and the cost are within reason. I'd rather pay more than deal with maps that will need to be replaced.

[@ZillaBlitz]

@@Frank08046 Makes sense to me. For me, it kind of depends on the game's depth and replayability. For something like ASL, mounted would be nice because a map is likely to get lots of use. For other games that are less likely to get played as heavily, I'm fine with paper-ish maps. I generally add plexiglass to the paper maps to preserve them when playing.

[@Frank08046]

@@ZillaBlitz Oh good idea. I actually was able to purchase Squad Leader from Avalon Hill unpunched off of eBay. Had it as a kid. But plexiglass makes a lot of sense.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Yeah, I went to Home Depot and got a couple of different sizes of plexiglass, and they work great. The thinner stuff (which is better for wargames) is quite cheap. The thicker stuff is too expensive and actually not very good for wargaming.

[@coryhoggatt7691]

“Starter Kit” is not really a good description. It’s ASL simplified enough to be a little more playable. It doesn’t move you seamlessly to full ASL, to do that you have to unlearn some starter kit rules and learn new rules for full ASL. Questions people ask online for one or the other constantly elicit responses that include “can’t remember if that’s for starter kit or full ASL.” If you want to enjoy a simpler version of ASL, or are getting back in after a long absence, enjoy the starter kits. If you want ALL that ASL has to offer, just dive into full ASL. With the resources available online it won’t take long to learn to play.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Good points, for sure, thanks for sharing your knowledge. :)

[@johnnyamerica130]

I love these games! Have you ever played twilight 2000?

[@ZillaBlitz]

Hi Johnny - No, I don't think I've ever even heard of that one, is it fun?

[@johnnyamerica130]

@@ZillaBlitz Quite a fun tac mil board game yes! It's set in a bit of an alternate cold war reality, here is a decent video review of the game if you're interested. They actually just released a new edition last year as well, first one since the 80s. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3qsapKmbp15b7M

[@ZillaBlitz]

Oh, cool! I'll take a look. When I looked on Board Game Geek I only found the old version, which looked a bit dated. A new version would be more appealing yes. :)

[@ZillaBlitz]

That looks like an amazing set. Really fun for table-top group play, and you need a game master to play?

[@thelastmotel]

@@johnnyamerica130 Twilight 2K is an RPG, not a board game... so, you do need a GM.

[@sonoftherabbitpeople4737]

I'm not new to ASL by a long shot, but it has been many years since I gave it a go. Bought the starter kits to make sure I have a good understanding of the basics before I give it another go. There are a lot of acronyms in ASL, but as they are very much recurring all the time, you will get used to the jargon fairly quickly. Also, you will probably need more dice to play the full version, at least 4 of 4 different colors. Some times you will be stacking units 3 high, with support weapons and leaders. When something happens that requires checking the status of more than one unit (from enemy fire for example), if you roll for each item individually it might get a little time consuming. Roll them at once and get on with it works best.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Yes, I joke about the acronyms but you're right, they come up so often that I'm sure they speed things up overall. And that's a great tip about the dice. I've got some reserves I can bring in. Thanks!

[@thelastmotel]

Hmmm, let me see ... 25 quid for SK#1 or 120 quid for Beyond Valor PLUS either 60 bucks (£49) for the PDF of the electronic rule book, or £48 for the POD physical copy of the rule book. So, £25 to start to learn ASL, or almost £170 to start to learn ASL. Decisions, decisions :P

[@ZillaBlitz]

Yep, that sounds about right to me. I've enjoyed the starter kit, but I think if I'm going to go further with the series I'd be inclined to switch to the full version. I feel like ultimately if you're going to really play the series, it's worth the extra bit of complexity to have access to everything. But this starter kit is a great way to get a taste to see if you like it.

[@thelastmotel]

@@ZillaBlitz I started with wargames and board games and RPGs in 1980, and when ASL came out, a lot of wargamers I knew got deep into it. For almost 40 years, I've heard how amazing it is, but have never tried it, because the people who got deep into it were all mental lol. Also, they'veve never adapted the look of it. Plus, I do play a lot of games solo these days, and Chapter S hasn't been reprinted in many years, and MultiMan have no intentions of reprinting it. It was $90 (£74) Though, to use, Chapter S did require both Beyond Valor and Yanks. Yanks is slightly more expensive than Beyond Valor, so you're looking at Yanks+Beyond Valor+RuleBook+a 2nd hand copy of 2ed Chapter S = well over £340 ($420) That said, I'd love to finally get around to playing it. It's a quandary.

[@ZillaBlitz]

Is Chapter S the solo ruleset for ASL? And it isn't in the digital rulebook? I think I'm fine with the ASL solo experience, outside of wondering how to handle hidden placement, etc. But I suspect that can be worked around. I'm very much on the fence as well, but I imagine at some point I'll pick up Beyond Valor and the digital rulebook, if only to have experienced the full game some and be able to play against others. I want to explore some of the other tactical WW2 games before moving on it though. :)

[@thelastmotel]

@@ZillaBlitz Chapter S comes with some pieces (markers and tokens, I think) as well as solo rules. Have you tried Warfighter? I quite enjoy that.

[@TheToekutter]

How do you enjoy playing ASL Starter Kit? How often do you play, and how far have you gotten? rhetorical question, I know the answer

[@ZillaBlitz]

I played the first scenario then decided that I wanted to shift into the full ASL game instead. Not that this isn't good, but the full ASL mode seemed to be where most people play, and it doesn't feel that much harder than the starter kit rules, especially for just basic scenarios. So I have Beyond Valor, but then I got sidetracked into Lock 'N Load's tactical combat system and then Assault Games' tactical system, so Beyond Valor sits on my Shelf of Opportunity. :)

[@nickhtk6285]

Arguably the greatest war game ever made.

[@ZillaBlitz]

It's certainly got a massive following! :)