THE LIZARD - Marvel's Broken Character

[@GodzillaMendoza]

Godzilla "not a lizard channel" Mendoza haha funny good job you're so creative

[@Sword_Man_YT]

GodzillaMendoza FUNNY HAHAHA *LAUGH*

[@Snoc75]

BIG CHUNGUS XDDDD

[@lord_bobanewname4069]

Not a marvel channel

[@nicklaslekblom8167]

GodzillaMendoza sPIdER mAN CHaNnEl!

[@nicklaslekblom8167]

GodzillaMendoza also remember that one time Conners ate his Wife and son?

[@smallfungus2675]

How to fix lizard syndrome, give lizard another personality that’s has grey scales, acts like a mob enforcer, and calls himself, “Joe Repair it.”

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

No no give him a new form with black and red scales that he only turns inti when the lizard is sad for silly reasons and he calls himself “drazil”

[@MauZangetsu]

Thanks, I hate it

[@ctrlz7582]

@Nomis Kira That has kinda happened already, minus the Infinity Gauntlet part

[@MakiPcr]

And it's such an original idea that hasn't been done before! He should move to Las Vegas too!

[@adronikos7822]

Or Joe Raptor it haha. I’ll go now.

[@takezokimura2571]

Meanwhile: Eddie Brock went from Villain, to Lethal Protector, to a murderer that hunts symbiotes,and then he went through long and hard journey to become a hero, to the point of being accepted by the Avengers.

[@libertyprime619]

Now that's character development

[@W_Abi]

And now he’s a god

[@ethansmith6507]

@@W_Abi damn I was gonna say that

[@fenrirsrage4609]

Ngl still feel really bad for Hybrid, his host's a good guy a black paraplegic who uses the symbiotes to walk again and be a good anti-hero yet gets murdered out of nowhere and has stayed dead for a while.

[@Couch_Banana]

@@fenrirsrage4609 I'll never forgive Eddie for killing him.

[@Sword_Man_YT]

Getting married, getting their secret identity exposed, *and dying*

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

BECAUSE 60 YEARS IS VERY LONG

[@timmartian9973]

And then resurrection

[@NiohArcadia]

I get that spiderman is supposed to stay in the status quote but that time they got married should've stuck for a while, at least until the universe gets rebooted It would make characters like that more different than some of the other widows and what not, and like I said maybe until the universe reboots. Why is Reed Richards and Sue storm the only couple that stays married consistantly and can have interesting storys?

[@plushiesdx]

@@NiohArcadia The problem with waiting until the Marvel comics universe is rebooted is that it has never actually rebooted. also spider-man was married to Mary Jane from 1987-2007, that's 20 years, which actually is a long time

[@UkuleleVillain]

That's just life tho

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

The more advances in science we make, the more hilariously inept Curt Connors gets. "We should shoot lizard DNA into people!" "Okay. But we just managed to make this fully functional robot arm. Plus, let's see how far stem cells or cloning body parts. Artificial limb grafts, and I heard they found a way to make amputated body parts more compatible with the host-" "BUT LIZARD DNA, THOUGH!"

[@D3wd20p]

If you locked every marvel character in the 1970s, I think it's be better; or at least interesting. The more we adapt characters to keep with the times, the more we run the risk of diluting who they are.

[@UkuleleVillain]

Don't even get me started on The Iguana and Kangaroo(Yes, they were official Spider-Man villains)

[@Ake-TL]

Ivan Ivanovitch Ivonovsky at least Iguana was in Amazing SM game

[@immersivecomics1603]

Just Some Guy with a Mustache Why do we watch all of the exact same videos👀

[@daraghokane4236]

Na healing like a reptile would be better then those. A lizard can heal part of its brain back

[@comicking428]

I like the current direction Spencer's taken where Lizard's more of an anti-hero that will occasionally help Peter should the situation need it and his students are aware of his status as the Lizard. I'd say make him and his family a bit more like Man-Bat and his family were before the new 52 screwed them over, just a couple of monsters living their life, helping out the heroes while still keeping up with the scientific community. Doesn't sound completely original, but Man-Bat ripped off A LOT of elements from the Lizard, so I'd say it's fair.

[@willgillies5670]

WELL SAID SIR, WELL SAID! ((APPLAUSE))

[@echo2121]

Have you read Tynion's Justice League Dark? Man-Bat is a mainstay character, and he's operating as a hero again.

[@tyreonbooker5304]

The gene-splicing worked it just had a bad side effect. If he were allowed to continue his research he could basically cure amputation. and that could also spread into other forms of healing. he could fix Dr. strange's nerve damage, grow Bucky a new arm, fix Clint's deafness, etc.

[@Error0101]

@@tyreonbooker5304 Clint is deaf?

[@tyreonbooker5304]

@@Error0101 yeah Clint has ruptured ear drums. Hes still got partial hearing and can lip read but thats why he hasnt really been around outside of major events

[@brianmartinez1412]

Mr. Freeze: My wife. The Lizard: My arm.

[@ryanm.8720]

*Bionic Commando (2009)'s Spencer:* My arm wife.

[@ferzamo7795]

Fred Fish: My legs!!!

[@chriswentz5197]

At that point just use a mechanical arm,Spider-man can contact Tony to do a mechanical arm

[@TupocalypseShakur]

@@chriswentz5197 they should give him one like Gamora's prosthetics, the ones that look like organic limbs and make you forget Gamora only has one arm and no legs

[@dedrik1461]

Two-face: my face Rhino: my suit

[@LegendOfTheBat]

Maybe make a story where Kurt is gonna permanently lose himself to the Lizard, does something good to save people before his mind completely goes, and then the Avengers bring him to the Savage Land, where he can live out the rest of his life free, away from people trying to get to him.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Stegron won’t will either be happy about the company or bitter about the rival!

[@IsiahTomas]

I'm just thinking about how the Spider-Man books for the last while(appx since the late 90's) have had trouble with developing their villains, save for a few. I like the Lizard as a villain enough, but since around MacFarlane's run in the mid 90's, something veered off. For me, most writers, or at least perhaps those whose dealings with the editors didn't work as well, don't develop or keep to the story arc on some of these villains. In the 80's, Tombstone, Hanmerhead and Kraven were pretty interesting because they had an interesting and involved story with Spider-Man and his cast. These days, it just seems like most of the villains don't matter except for the event tie-in books and you can only take that trip so far. Save for the Inheritors, there's just no reason to give hype.

[@ferhat4425]

and then in a new comic he gets a cure that turns him back into his original state (half dr. connor half lizard) and nothing changes

[@troywalkertheprogressivean8433]

and breed lots of man lizards

[@huyvuminh1048]

that the same arc rhino, black cat had. Retire, reform and bam some writer out of villain and bring them back while also butchered the characters

[@coolgreenbug7551]

Everyone loves a good quotable villain line: No, I am your father You should have gone for the head You wanna know how I got these scars No, I'm a lizard man

[@knuckt.k.9456]

Poor. Peter. Parker. No mother, no FATHER. No UNCLE. All alone.

[@coolgreenbug7551]

@@knuckt.k.9456 I only remember this line because of the HISHE bit

[@TheguyfromJurassicpark3]

"So, say you were to draw something in chalk and erase it...... *D O* *Y O U* *K N O W* *W H E R E* *I T* *G O E S ?* "

[@92ndmeenyweeny]

at least the lizard is something of a scientist himself

[@elijahx4977]

@@92ndmeenyweeny Lol true

[@moviehermit5631]

I wonder if we could get a story where Curt is addicted to being the Lizard. Being that he relapses and chooses to loose himself to the Lizard because he's never been more powerful. It isn't to take revenge on anyone or because he was forced to, he's just addicted to the drug that is the lizard

[@dudemetslagroom8065]

I feel like that is exactly the story Harry Osborn went through with the goblin? Although i might be mistaken...I do think this could work tough.

[@Extremezotako]

Cool

[@MelodiesUnheard]

spider man and black suit? what's the difference

[@RedDeadDevilTrigger]

That would actually be great

[@Jilluminum]

Yes I agree that the addiction angle is the best because it ties into the whole chemistry aspect of his character. Here's my take: Connors realizes that he's overused the lizard formula and it no longer works on him and he creates a new improved formula that will be less succeptible to diminishing returns, but since he can't become the lizard anymore he can't steal the raw ingredients he needs. He pairs up with a villain with money like a Fisk or an Osborn and gives them the formula in exchange for a good supply and a share of the cash. The formula then ends up hitting the street as a party drug and starts causing problems and spider man has to deal with entire roving lizard gangs now. Kurt intitially has a great time with all this until he finds out someone he cares about is lizarding (the wife? if she's normal at the time?). Seeing his own behavior from the outside he has a crisis of identity and decides to help people cope with their lizard drug use and idk something something needle exchanges something something medicinal use, this shit writes itself

[@coltonlaub2790]

This perfectly explains what I felt when I read Venom comics. One moment the symbiote is fueled by Eddie's love then years later it's actually his cancer then boom actually he never had cancer and the symbiote (along with every other symbiote) is actually an agent of the cosmos because Bendis said so despite it being specifically stated that they're a malevolent species. I hate comics but I can't stop reading them.

[@SuperSwimTeam7]

In the circumstances of Cates Venom, and Ewing's Immortal Hulk, the changes are built ontop of the pre-existing continuity in a way that builds and connects previous conflicting plot points, rather than ignoring them or changing them in a way that conflicts with the story. Alternatively, consider stories like Batman RIP, where Grant Morrison intentionally wrote several back doors to fake out bringing Batman back, and connect Final Crisis to his over arching Bat Epic. Some of the back doors in that story are still being used as plot threads in books like Dark Knight Metal, and Death Metal, today. I think those are two ways to go about changing characters, build ontop of and connect the pre existing threads, or build a back door out of it, for future writers to take advantage of

[@Bolbi145]

Three cheers for Grant Morrison

[@thomasraines1396]

@@Bolbi145 hip hip hooray!

[@thomasraines1396]

Most writers don’t care that much and are content to retread old ground.

[@mightyraccoon7155]

Hi Swim

[@geardog24]

Let Billy become an angsty teenage lizard, and have him want to be Spider-Man's sidekick.

[@frankieseward8667]

I perfer optimistic and unwavering. But i agree, it's time Billy got a chance to shine

[@PurposelessRabbitholes]

Yoooo, that Ramos-illustrated moment between Spidey and Gobby in the sewer is one of my all-time favorites (mentioned around 4:51). The way it starts with them bloodied, nearly on the brink of death, just sitting silently in pain... and then out of nowhere Norman just tells a story about he originally planned for his super-villain name to be “Mister Coffee.” Loved that story. And the ending, "5 bucks and a pizza"... goddamn. I gotta go read that again haha

[@samwatson-tayler2805]

One of my favourite youtubers commenting on another of my favourite youtubers' videos? Nice.

[@elijahhowe9901]

what was the name of that issue? sounds interesting.

[@plantingcactus2852]

Chief, I'm gonna need a name

[@PurposelessRabbitholes]

Peter Parker: Spider-Man Vol III. Return of the Goblin

[@Pxstran]

@@PurposelessRabbitholes I like you

[@spider-nerd]

6:33 ironically enough this fits the comparison of Jekyll and Hyde more because in the original book, Hyde wasn't a split personality. The only change was physical being used by Jekyll to act out "base urges" as referred to by the doctor

[@Double-R-Nothing]

Honestly, I feel the only thing to do for this character is to give him a redemption arc that ends with a heroic sacrifice. Permanent heroic sacrifice, so none of that clone bullshit they pulled with Kraven.

[@ginogatash4030]

if you make a good story that turns a character a fan favorite dies, it's a 100% guaranteed to come back to life later, it happened with Kraven it'll happen again.

[@stevenlaguna1497]

Can't. they'll do that with everyone forever. Hell, Dan Slott gave Otto a redemption arc, killed him, and then immediately brought him back as a clone and restarted his redemption arc. Even the writers who do the redemption arcs are quick to undo them

[@maxithalo7796]

no one is ever permanently dead in comics

[@ginogatash4030]

@@maxithalo7796 what about ghost-like characters?

[@willgillies5670]

Clone Kraven,.....yeah only way I would sort that would have the real Kravens soul inhabit the body, ala Oliver Queen in Quiver.

[@MistahFox]

"What is it? A lizard? Or a man?" "I'm a LIZARD MAN!" Yeah thats just his character

[@manyerrors3719]

Mood

[@Templar5]

Why did i read the comment the very second that scene showed up

[@AvengerVincent]

It's the same way with Mr.Freeze and arguably Two Face. Mr. Freeze is a great villain, but there's only one story you can tell with him and while nothing can ever taint his DCAU appearances, in comics he's either just a background character or we're repeating the same old plot thread for infinity. And anytime they do "and now Nora is a villain after being revived" it just feels like a cheap sales gimmick and nothing else. Most Batman villains barely get a story to themselves now and it feels like anytime DC gives Freeze a story, they do the same old thing over and over and over and over. And don't get me started on "a skilled surgeon has repaired Harvey Dent's face". For all the times Two Face gets his face fixed and then maimed two issues latter, it should just be a big pink slab of skin or half of a skull by now.

[@Bolbi145]

The Arkham games do a good job with Mr. Freeze and the Telltale series shows you more of Harvey’s development

[@fenrirsrage4609]

I think a lot of Batman's Rogues Gallery has a pretty bad case of Lizard Syndrome and then some. Bane went from the one who broke the Bat both physically and maybe mentally. But now that's just treated as some kind of joke or mythology gag. Mr. Freeze flip flops between a villain or a tragic anti-villain (then again the really old incarnation of Mr. Freeze wasn't as great as what we all know now) Two Face has some potential to be interesting here and there but it sucks he's also relegated to be some sort of disposable villain (I think a few media has made him interestin again though like Batman Brave and the Bold and the new interactive Batman Movie, there's like one moment that is really neat.)

[@juliiju0484]

Thats why Kite man is the Best Batman villian 😎

[@stephenstrange6446]

I read a really interesting batman one-off abt Mr Freeze where it's revealed that Nora wasn't actually his wife and is just a random woman he found and projected all of this onto. I think it was in the new 52

[@lukasluna7475]

@@stephenstrange6446 Yeah, that was at the beginning of the new 52. It felt super forced (Freeze just shows up in a completely unrelated story arc for one issue) and needlessly edgy.

[@ThePonderer]

The cyclical, stagnant nature of comic character development is a problem that’s plagued Peter himself a long time, and I think is the root of a lot of divisive choices made in other media about the character.

[@Broomer52]

Warhammer 40k does this really well because the setting necessitates that theirs no permanent alliances because “in the grim dark future theirs only war” but has a progressing story that’s been fairly consistent because they use the age old adage “the more things change the more they stay the same” they’ll be universe shaking events and things will progress, characters will die but ultimately everything remains the same. They even gave themselves an out if theirs ever a plot hole or a need for a retcon by saying that with an empire as big and corrupt as the Terran Empire record keeping is inherently flawed. Sometimes our records are outright lies and sometimes they were inaccurate. Which superhero comics it’s a bit harder but the easiest step would to lay a ground rule to not rock the boat too hard that they can’t take it back without throwing people off.

[@troyoboyo17]

I wonder if maybe the solution that would satisfy everyone is to have two lizards. One Curt Connors who is the redeemable Jekyll-Hyde archetype and grows and changes and and all that, and then another character becomes the lizard and is the evil villain one that has full control. That way fans of Curt are satisfied that he isn't stuck in a loop, and then also Marvel is able to tell classic Lizard stories with him as a competent villain to get sales. It might be a little muddy to introduce though

[@Substitute_Zero]

honestly, i would be down with this. So many other villains' titles are given to new characters but the Lizard has really only ever been Connors (with middling results, as outlined in the video here)

[@fightingmedialounge519]

That only last for so long.

[@Wright805]

Marvel actually tried that with the Iguana.

[@justbny9278]

As if they would just change Curt for a less known and stablish villain with the same Powers Kraven literally died and got new characters with his skills and they still revived him later on

[@mixwidman5458]

@@Wright805 Who?

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

I feel lile this is an inherent flaw in decade long comic runs. You can't have character permanently grow and change because it breaks the status quo, and that means a character will never perpetually reamin the even after decades of existing and overcoming numerous conflicts that they should learn from. It also feels very nihilistic. Nothing they do will ever matter in the long run and they will never truly become better people. Any progress can be reverted and nothing will ever be permenant. And when nothing is permanent, nothing really matters. The end result is me not caring about big, earth-shattering events because I know they will never stick and that completely ruins investment. I mean come on, no one actually believes it when writer has a hero die, we all know he or she is just going to come back in a year or two as a clone or inter-dimensional copy or resurrected via magic.

[@vinhbao9738]

comics could still make stories in alternate universe. Its only in the main canon comics that story progression for characters don't happen much,

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@vinhbao9738 honestly I prefer the comics alternate universe stories alot of the time like spider-man lifestory for example

[@windwind3170]

I just want a more fleshed out version of "Spider-Man: Life Story" where time actually progresses and characters stay dead. A short spin-off run where Pete has to live with the decisions he made.

[@isinganddootherthings4616]

Yes please

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

In alternate universe

[@windwind3170]

@@youtubersworldwide3713 Well, obviously yes. But only if it stays close to canon without too many and radical changes(I.E changing someone's gender, race or making another character be someone else, like making Flash be Green Goblin for no reason).

[@igorsirius9178]

The only run I know where mostly characters stayed dead and Peter has to live with his decisions is the first Ultimate Spider-Man run

[@tayojones9460]

Except Norman came back after he died. Again and again. Also Ultimate Peter died and came back again so really not too different from 616

[@super.sportz.editz17]

1:37 is the funniest thing “is it a lizard or a man” “I’m a lizard man”

[@dylantaylor603]

0:12 I feel like this applies to your reputation as a “Spider-Man” channel. Anyway can’t wait for the next Spider-Man vid, ciao!

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

True

[@resortisland8977]

Johnny thiccest waifu

[@comixproviderftw_02]

The Palpatine twist and Norman Osborn reveal in The Clone Saga is the most apt comparison I’ve ever heard.

[@lepusheart7857]

"What's the best work around for this 'lizard syndrome'?" Not sure if the best, or if it'd stick long-term, but if what matters is keeping things 'fresh', I'd pull a Venom and make him some sort of hero, or anti-hero. Something like trying to rectify his public image like the Hulk so that his family is allowed to live in normalcy despite their scaly skin problem. Keeping the whole Shed thing where he's stuck as the Lizard but with a slowly-recovering mind, as to not just become another Hulk trope with "Oh no, I'm transforming!" at the end of every issue or so, for cliffhanger bait. If Marvel needs a gimmick-y "initial arc", have him work with Reed Richards in attempts to fix his situation but end up going nowhere, something about his DNA permanently damaged with the Lizard DNA. (SO IT CAN BE RETCONNED IN TWO YEARS WITH A SIMPLE "REED WAS WRONG") And really just keep him around in New York, have some crossovers with Spidey if he even gets a solo-run. It'd be useless trying to put him in another city.

[@Phoenix158Archive]

This is kinda like what they did in the 90s cartoon I like it

[@onigames7309]

Sounds good.

[@nicklaslekblom8167]

Lepusheart like Bruce Banner and The Hulk in infinty War but alot more sad

[@daegan_ftw]

They could always send him back to Florida and have him protect the wetlands.

[@lepusheart7857]

@@daegan_ftw That could totally be one of his big arcs, nice!

[@oceanbacon2960]

I’ve always thought it would be interesting to approach the Lizard as a disease for Curt and not necessarily a second personality (although it is a different consciousness), which would explain why he wants to turn everyone else into lizards. Approaching his character this way would tie in to something I’ve also been toying with in my mind for a while: pairing him with the Anti Venom symbiote. It’s a radical enough change that would shake up the status quo but be cool enough to stick around. Have a story where Curt is desperate for a cure to his Lizard ailment and seeks out the ultimate remedy, except now he’s stuck with a new entity that occasionally hijacks his mind. Still it opens up a new set of doors for him, since now he can reason and actually argue with his other half. Idk it’s just an idea I’d like to flesh out one day.

[@backup-qg6nb]

Pretty cool character. I always had the impression that the Lizard was the reptilian equal to Spider-Man, possessing a lot of potential in power.

[@Stofferex]

Peter has stated that Lizard is one of the few villains that if he does hold back like he does to the most of them, he would be dead. That’s saying how dangerous Lizard truly is

[@backup-qg6nb]

@@Stofferex Makes sense, given his healing factor and savage nature.

[@Stofferex]

@@backup-qg6nb and equal if not greater strength and speed as well

[@galactic85]

Honestly, I think the only way around "lizard syndrome" is to kind of abandon a larger marvel continuity altogether. Just give a writer/artist a character and let them tell a story from beginning to end. Then once they are done with their story, someone else takes the same character and instead of continuing what came before, just does something completely different. Every writer/artist team gets to make their own version of spider-man, superman, batman, etc. Maybe one writer wants to tell a story about Peter and Mary Jane while they are still being married, and another writer wants to just do high-school Spider-man stories. Have them both writer two different books and make it clear they are set in their own distinct universes. That's basically what we do with characters like Sherlock Holmes. Every few years, someone new comes along and reinvents the character in a movie, and then someone else makes a new Sherlock Holmes TV show or novel that is completely unrelated. I think this is part of the reason superheroes are flourishing in movies right now. Everyone gets to have their favorite version of spider-man and every few years a new one will come along with its own unique take. Of course, this comes with its own set of problems. Part of the appeal of mainstream superhero comics is the idea that you are getting a continuing story and you run the risk of making people feel overwhelmed if there are 10 different spider-man books being simultaneously published with 10 different versions of Peter Parker. Still, some of the most popular comics from the last 10 years are titles that haven't had to deal with decades of prior continuity or are just out right reboots. Both G. Willow Wilson's "Ms. Marvel" and the Ultimate Spider-man series by Bendis are good examples.

[@srstriker6420]

galactic85 what’s next the Osborn syndrome?

[@JayJohnson304]

galactic85 have you heard of copyright?

[@cincila6981]

What they did with Moon Knight?

[@tayojones9460]

Problem with films is that creators are required to take elements from films and inject them into comics. Like Samuel Jackson fury replacing the original. All to attract film fans who do not even read the comics.

[@andrewdau1299]

@@tayojones9460 I thought that was because of some weird contract thing were the Ultimate universe version of Nick Fury was based on Samuel Jackson but the caveat to that is if they make a movie with Nick Fury it's based on that version with Sam in the role.

[@Noname-ut1ye]

I'd do what Jason Aaron did during his Hulk run with the Lizard. Make the Lizard the rational hero and Curt Connors the evil mad scientist. It'd be a fresh enough idea for the character.

[@tayojones9460]

No that would be repeating what he did with Hulk.

[@Noname-ut1ye]

@@tayojones9460 So? A scientist who wears purple pants and turns into a monster has been done too but here we are.

[@oldmanlogan9616]

That is a good idea.

[@BmptheMvp]

Hopefully in the second Spider-Man game we get Lizard. And the trophy for beating him should be called "A Reptile Dis-function"

[@kingbash6466]

It really does put things into prospective when characters like Sandman, Electro, and even Shocker has gotten more development over the years than the Lizard.

[@wallacecrowmanproject9235]

The lizards son in his 20s.. That could be an interesting story actually, I can see him being like hunting down his dad or something. He just wants to finish this horrible thing in his life. Hell you can use the clone aspect by making him aging quickly and he has to keep himself from becoming more and more of a lizard like his father.

[@juanpedraw4245]

I'd say if a character ever gets to a "lizard syndrome" situation, just kill them honorably and give the mantle to someone else, if need be. Because it seems that the main problem with the Lizard is that he's always Curt Connors. Nothing new happens with Curt, and so, it's a slow news day for the Lizard. If you give the brand of Lizard to someone else, you take the old thing, and make something new out of it. That's why we have She-Hulk, Jane Foster Thor, Falcon Captain America, Scott Lang Ant Man, and countless Spider people.

[@remyrichardson8614]

Imagine if his son decided he wanted to make prosthesis redundant, so he decided to take a peek at his old man’s research and his dad is like “don’t do it I learned my lesson” but he doesn’t listen so he cuts off an appendage and experiments on himself and winds up like his dad?

[@coolgreenbug7551]

@@remyrichardson8614 Or after being stuck in lizard plots and chemicals for so long he's stuck as The Lizard and tries to just go on with his life. You could look into why so many super powered people have to resort to crime because no one wants to hire a 7 foot tall lizard monster

[@Broomer52]

I’ll be honest most of those examples aren’t very good. A lot of replacements are Tokenism and when they’re not it’s a version of them from an alternate universe so it barely counts.

[@landonhagan450]

"Clone resurrection" is one of the worst tropes in all of fiction. Not only does it destroy the consequences of death, but it doesn't even actually bring the character back because the idea is philosophical nonsense. Let's be clear: CLONES ARE NEW PEOPLE, DISTINCT FROM THE ORIGINAL. EVEN IF YOU GIVE THEM THE ORIGINAL'S MEMORIES, THEY ARE STILL NOT THE PERSON WHO EXPERIENCED THEM. THE ORIGINALS ARE STILL DEAD AND GONE FOREVER. This is non-negotiable. There are two ways to think about it: either humans have intrinsic souls or they don't. If we don't and the essence of being is in the body, then the fact that the clone has their own body proves it. If we do have souls, then they are almost certainly not shared between copies, because there's not only nothing to indicate that would be the case, but mountains of evidence to the outright contrary. The only way a clone is a legitimate replacement for a person is if you go out of your way to establish that clones share some kind of fundamental essence that makes them an extension of the original. However this is still a bad idea because it kills the tension. There is literally nothing but drawbacks to using this cliche.

[@apeman6059]

EXACTLY 💯

[@landonhagan450]

Atomic Reaper I’m glad some people agree with me here. I’ve been mad about this for years. Especially after watching Dr Who. That show is absolutely saturated with this trope to the point that it (and a couple other issues) killed the series for me.

[@MugdhaMahdiShams]

@@landonhagan450 wait what? When did this much clone BS happen in Doctor Who?

[@DichterDenkerChaoten]

Doctor Strange confirmed, that the clones had the original souls ... somehow.

[@dougwalker8068]

There should be some sort of rehabilitation program for characters that have been transformed into monsters. You could make a team of super freaks trying to take their monstrous forms and use them in a productive and helpful way. The team can consist of Hulk, Lizard, Beast, Thing, and others in a similar situation.

[@frankieseward8667]

The core 4 definitely have potential. Hell you can make them old college buds to help.

[@ryanhutchinson4467]

I still like the lizard. I love every Spider-Man villain, even some of the obscure ones like Molten Man, Hydro Man, or Doppelgänger. Great video, Xavier!

[@srstriker6420]

Ryan Hutchinson also the hobgoblin

[@richborn6700]

Hobgoblin is far from Obscure

[@oldmanlogan9616]

The Spot is great too

[@ryanhutchinson4467]

@V DLPR Definitely. Spot is great!

[@goblintributemaker2539]

Alistair Smythe is a great obscure Spider-Man villain

[@TheWyman55_]

Deadpool forgetting his daughter still makes me mad. Actually all new deadpool comics makes me mad

[@BugsyFoga]

"POOR PETER PARKER" - The Lizard

[@Chugargonfan]

Yesssss

[@2diefor]

Peter Parker Picked A Peck A Pickled Peppers

[@antwan1357]

Batman if you count how many sidekicks he grew to adulthood should be having a walking cane like batman beyond. But in the modern era.

[@Kriss_ch.]

This is sorta while I gravitate towards the animated adaptations. They usually don't end well, which would be ideal, but at least the DCAU didn't run for 60 years. If you got four seasons or whatever do to a contained adaptation, it's very reasonable to be able to have plenty of adventures with the characters first - and then let whatever ending fits them best just stick as the series comes to an end. Kraven could have his last hunt, Connors could just be cured and Norman Osborn could do the old Frieza pizza manouver. This is part of why Spectacular's cancellation still hurts.

[@TidalVex]

I've been saying for years that the Lizard should just be a straight up good guy by now. They've done literally every story arc with him as a villain, so like Venom they should just make him a hero. The current Nick Spencer run is a good starting point, and it's not like he needs to become an Avenger or anything. Just set him up with one of the big GOOD corporations like SHIELD, Stark Industries, or working at the Baxter Building, that way Spidey can still swing by and check on Connors.

[@trent7258]

Having the lizard go to the future foundation could actually be really cool

[@frankieseward8667]

Hell his son Billy becoming a mutant to avoid dying from a disease is good development to make him good

[@The4thSnake]

I like the idea of a new Ultimate Universe where the story takes place in real-time and changes are permanent. Lets us see new takes that take risks while leaving the core universe classic for people who prefer it.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Give us a DC one while we're at it

[@aloppai4581]

the ultimate universe used to be the way to work around the lizard syndrome because you're allowed to do things with characters you could never do in the main universe but unfortunately they didn't use that to their advantage very well. the only good i i can think of out of it was the maker.

[@johnivanoplimo5172]

"Hey! Wall-crawling is my shtick! If you spin webs, I'll sue." --Spectacular Spider-Man Bring this show back, Disney!

[@uknownada]

It's criminal that it's the ONLY Spider-Man cartoon, besides the original, that isn't on Disney+. And it's the only good one!

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

@@uknownada BC , the rights of SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN belongs to SONY.

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

@@gunghogi8365 yes Because it's Sony propy

[@fduranthesee]

Ultimate was pretty good, too.

[@MrSafior]

@@fduranthesee No.

[@zabbas9371]

This fear of change of progression is exactly why ive been put off of comics recently. Whenever we get something good with Spidey, it gets undone a few years later.

[@frankieseward8667]

Tv shows are better because we don't have to worry about continuity

[@colinakersakers44]

Thanks for basically summing up my issues with comics as a whole. They don’t care much about good stories, as much as trying to keep their dying business model alive

[@frankieseward8667]

This is why animation will mever die. It's a medium that can go on for centuries.

[@RatManSteetS]

I was always hoping that we'd get to keep Superior Spider-Man after he returned with that clone body. Even if they wanted to get Doc Ock back for the Spidey books, they just established that Doc can clone himself, so we could just have both of them. But instead, they half-ass a reason for him to willingly become evil again and then just ignore that Superior happened until they need him for some sort of major spider-event.

[@The_Pie_apocalypse]

I just realized something Rise of skywalker is the clone saga of star wars

[@englishgiraffe2124]

I remember reading Marvel Knights Spider-Man #7 when I was 4 and the 8:00 panel really changed me. It was the first time I think I saw blood and death, a visceral death, and the dead woman being grabbed like that by Lizard really struck a chord with me. Like, weirdly a feeling of distraught and sorrow. The first time I saw civilians, a woman savagely beaten and killed like that. Kinda still sticks with me and leaves me feeling haunted tbh.

[@redstreak9430]

I remember there was one Spidey game that made Lizard more of a Beast/Professor Hulk character where he had the smarts of Conners but the strength of his Lizard form (it might have been Friend or Foe but don’t quote me on that). I actually liked that and it was a refreshing break for his character arc (and it almost sounds like it was deviated from the Spectacular arc that you mentioned here). Heck, I’d argue that making him more like Beast makes more sense for Conners than Banner considering Conners actually has help to become a better person and control his animal instincts vs Banner whose gimmick is being hunted by good and bad guys to exploit his Gamma powers which keeps him on the run and less time for a successful compromise between the Hulk and Banner. You could also argue that Planet Hulk was the prototype for Professor Hulk considering that during that Story, Hulk became more that just pure adulterated anger which is probably why MCU Hulk did Planet Hulk Abridged first before shoehorning Professor Hulk into Endgame. All I’m saying is why not try something like that but have him as a Spidey Ally/Antihero instead of a part of his Rogue’s Gallery who can’t make up his mind?

[@gatorkid3653]

To answer your question. Yes it was Friend and Foe. Also if you remember the 90’s spiderman show, they did something similar during the few final episodes of the show. Curt Connors was on another planet with a bunch of heroes but was turned into the lizard, then unconscious after fighting a worm creature. They brought him into the base and somehow reconfigured his brain to have his human side again. The idea of Curt being a good guy and still being the Lizard is something I genuinely love

[@dr.sabertooth3025]

I've always had this idea for how to update the lizards character, let me know what you all think of it. Kurt Conners turns himself into the lizard in an attempt to grow his arm back, just like the typical story of him goes. However the major change I would do is that he can't just turn back into a human but will randomly change into lizard, so basically removing the whole thing that makes him like some sort of evil version of the hulk. But secondly I would have him be less of a pure evil monster who enjoys killing people, and have him be like a scared confused creature, but still have his intelligence but it doesn't come out as much because of his animalistic side fighting with his human side. And with this constant battle between the animalistic tendencies to hunt and the human empathy to not want to hurt people he spends his days hiding in the sewers. Now the part that makes him a villain is Firstly, while he does have more empathy and purposely hides himself away, when people do stumble across him, his fight or flight kicks in and typically the fight wins out and he ends up killing whoever crosses his path, this adds to the reasons why he never comes out to get help. However one of the other major changes is that when it comes to specifically why he would fight spiderman, I imagine with this new personality for him, he could easily be manipulated by other villains who basically would force him to come out and fight spiderman and invent stuff for them in exchange for the possibly of them helping him find a cure. However they would almost never actaully do this but because of how badly he wants to be human again he would just keep doing their bidding. So basically he's less of generic evil scientist and more of a tragic villain who is only does bad things due to bad surcumstances.

[@slackerofhell]

His character is already tragic to begin with, and you wanna torture the man even MORE!? I'd read the hell out of that. My thoughts about it were when he regains his human form he remembers everything he did as the Lizard which leads to a psychological breakdown where he decides he'd rather be an animal and forget his human side rather than live with himself and all the horrible things he's done in human form.

[@magikplissken3158]

As for Lizard it’s the same thing with Mr. Freeze in the comics, yea giving him a tragic backstory was good but then it doesn’t lead much anywhere. Except for the animated series which evolved him over time, into being a tragic villain, to being someone heartless because his wife and body was gone into being someone who just wants to live a normal life but cant

[@FlashStudios1934]

Anyone else notice that the lizard and man bat are the same character. Scientist with physical ailment that studies an animal to mimic its abilities to fix themselves but ends up being transformed into that animal

[@IsaiahMorton-qy6pq]

you are my number 1 fav youtuber you deserve way more subs you put so much time and effort in your videos you are the number one comic youtube channel you make me laugh and smile when i watch your videos even in my darkest hour god bless you and your team.

[@Cooki66]

I think the literaly best way to fix this kind of situation is genuinely to ignore the situation around fans getting mad over status quo changes. Create a definitive, unchanging iteration of the character as a base, and then have them be that same iteration across all future stories, changing and growing with each encounter. To stop treating comic characters, or just characters in general, as static, unmoving things that can never change or develop, lest fans get mad. I've stopped reading traditional, serialized comics because they never actually say anything, or tell any kind of story, at least not any with any kind of purpouse or genuity to it, because at the end of that story, in the very next issue, it all goes back to zero. The protagonist is back to their usual antics, the antagonist is back to their usual selves, and nothing that just happened mattered, or ever will matter. The Lizard Situation is just an embodiment of this issue, a genuine avatar of the state of comics as a whole. And so, I think the best way to fix that situation, is to stop vying into that situation in general.

[@NabeelFarrukh]

8:10 Look at little lizard junior, gonna cry?

[@thenichollsworth]

I wish Shocker kept the upgraded suit he briefly had, he really felt like a threat finally.

[@alexdan4ev375]

the "lizard sindrome" has actually a very simple solution.Sticking to the gun and just running with it. Kind of like transformers,every story can be summed up as the same but different enough to stand on its own,or ultimate spiderman as another example. Ultimately giving it time is all that matters even if its for worse or the best.

[@d3hybrid713]

The only way to write him best is to eventually combine the two personalities because having him be hulk is just sometimes annoying just combine the two and write in different directions anti hero, hero, villain, or sympathetic villian.

[@Aristocles22]

The best way to fix the "lizard syndrome" is to make a meaningful change in a story arc which is so big, long, and carefully thought-out that it becomes a definitive part of the character and everyone who was fans of that character acknowledges and respects it. And it does so in a way which respects the character, the fans, and stays true to what the character is about.

[@augustrempelewert4377]

Okay, cool, but how?

[@paragonjones13]

Which is?

[@Aristocles22]

@@paragonjones13 Make the character face down the problems he's been running from, force him to make a difficult choice between right and wrong, have serious, lasting consequences for his actions, and don't just reset everything a year or less later. Also, don't resort to cheap gimmicks like clones, instant resurrection, giving them mysterious children they never knew about somehow, or making the character really a Skrull or a Doombot.

[@paragonjones13]

@@Aristocles22 wow! Thank you for responding :) Do you have a story outline in mind? It's OK if not, I was only wondering how you'd picture it playing out

[@mayday2237]

I think the MCU actually offers a solution to the lizard syndrome, having multiple major extended ongoing continuities, one with speciic circumstances that limit it's ability to have a status quo, allows for more ability to take risks and have them stick without worrying about alienating fans as much.

[@shadowmousegaming6813]

2:22 i died that you used the nostalgia critic thumbnail 💀💀💀

[@warmcnugget7843]

This is why I appreciated when DC did their New 52 reset. Marvel desperately needs to do something similar, establish a new canon timeline that allows Writers to reestablish the new status quo, fixing issues of the past while keeping what actually worked. All the Cloning/Magic bullshit in Marvel Spidey Comics convolute everything unnecessarily. Yes, Peter might revert back to a teenager but we can watch him grow again. Plus we can get reimagining of stuff like Kraven’s Last Hunt which I think Marvel would benefit from.

[@gatorkid3653]

Me who’s a loves The Lizard: *pulls up seat* go on Also maybe it’s just me, but when the 90’s Spiderman brought Curt Connors to that one planet with some other Marvel heroes it got me excited. Not only was he in his lizard form, BUT he was able to have Curt’s intelligence. Sorta like Professor Hulk. Brain of a scientist and strength of a lizard

[@frankieseward8667]

This. A great moment that i wish was used more. If Red Hulk can have a hero arc, why not Lizard.

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

Lizard should've been like sin eater or big man, a sort of one shot villain. Or make him a sort of animal-human hybrid expert like a sci fi etrigan/jason blood who helps peter handle villains like vermin or iguana or stegron or thousand, give curt a rivalry with stegron who believes in the movie lizards believes that cross species are superior while curt believes that cross species that are dangerous should be cured.

[@7OnAtuesday]

13:13 that's my comic shop!

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

4:37 "Keep feeding the audience your hate, so they don't abandon you and so you can continue to make a living" Very relatable for some KZbinrs.

[@Stofferex]

Wow, I’ve been on a binge lately for your videos and now this drops, which includes one of my favorite Spidey villains! Noice!

[@ryanmills4222]

This is exactly why I hate long form non conclusive stories like this, there's never any payoff or resolution, just endless pandering to the status quo with no soul. Each new rerun getting more tired than the next.

[@nedleeds449]

I think removing a main universe continuity would fix the lizard syndrome issue. In that way, writers can create whatever story they want with whatever characters they can use and make new stories without being limited by the status quo. I mean, having differing continuities would possibly alienate and confuse many people but I wouldn’t know how to fix that.

[@Grey8270]

Maybe Curt Connors could gain control of the Lizard and use his power for good acting as an ally for Spider Man

[@KJulian21]

Give Curt Connors a metal arm. Steal a spare arm from Bucky, Nebula, Thor, Cable, or Misty Knight. The poor scientist just wants his arm back.

[@justbny9278]

Just wanted* After becoming a lizard and running the risk of randomly becoming a lizard again he just wants to go back to normal permanently

[@fynnthefox9078]

In my own Spider-Man project about Peter and Mary Jane's son, I actually had the Lizard cured and happy with his family, only being able to become the Lizard at will and remain fully conscious in it. Kind of like Smart Hulk. So he becomes an ally of Peter's both intellectually and physically. He even has a daughter who's half-lizard and is on her way to being a student at Professor Xavier's school!

[@Stofferex]

Isn’t that what basically happened to him at the end of the 90’s show cause Reed Richards cures him?

[@dedrik1461]

That's awesome man honestly 🔥

[@ThePugDawg3]

That actually sounds dope

[@nintendohandheld9556]

And much like Hulk, he's a purple pants wearing doctor.

[@ThatGenericPyro]

If you wear purple pants in Marvel: You're destined to turn into a green monster, apparently

[@chrisossu2070]

@@ThatGenericPyro Because color theory.

[@Xehanort10]

@@ThatGenericPyro The lesson is "Don't be a scientist wearing purple pants in the Marvel universe."

[@Dakero]

I'm really glad you made this video because I felt like I was one of the only people who read all these stories, remembered them, and has just given up on this character as a villain as a result of the inconsistency.

[@Strongmount]

The reason Spider-Man isn’t allowed to have a kid in the main continuity is because he has nothing to prove thematically by being a parent - we all know Spidey would be an awesome dad👍

[@fightingmedialounge519]

It depends.

[@justbny9278]

It would still shake up his familial dynamics at least

[@AjayKumar-mj4qt]

You really think he can provide for a family while being Spiderman and be a good dad

[@PanzerMold]

I see a kindred spirit and fellow comic historian. This is an awesome video and channel! Keep up the great work!!

[@shempmalone9736]

I see lizard as Marvel’s version of Mr. Freeze, both have good intentions, but go through extensive means to achieve that

[@somesaiyanguy41]

Give him the old kraven treatment. Kill him and age his son, who's still a lizard and just takes over as the lizard but now his evil side is just a misplaced hatred of Spider-Man

[@jamesdotson797]

In response to the "lizard syndrome", I would suggest that perhaps his differences in appearance could be based upon stages in evolution, but each stage corresponds to various emotions and/or mixed emotions. Otherwise I'm not sure what could be done story wise. I wish I could offer more of a solution, but all I can say is that this was an excellent video that really identified and discussed a unique and somewhat frustrating occurance that seems to keep popping up in comics. Excellent work!

[@TheAvgCrusader]

Since Curt Connors was revealed in the post credit scene of Spider-Man Miles Morales I'm hoping something actually changes for him... It's shown that he's helping Norman with his son, Harry. With something *genetic* I'm hoping since it seems Harry has the Venom Symbiote in this universe... Maybe there's a horrible accident and due to him doing some genetic research he turns into the Lizard and blames Norman and it's something similar to Martin Li but maybe Spider-Man actually gets to Curt unlike Li and Curt helps Peter save Harry...

[@johnloti1460]

The way to work around “lizard syndrome” is by keeping the core beliefs of said character and also take some risk for growth. Like giving a character some new problems. It can help a big issue with comics (repetitiveness) for example, Nick Spencer should give spider-man a child. The only god damn time that peter has children is in fucking alternate universes like house of m. Give him a child, and it won’t upset fans and it will add a new sense of growth for the character. Also great job at ahcc.

[@srstriker6420]

Mostly Harmless Peter Parker the immortal teenager and what’s next the Osborn syndrome?

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

@@srstriker6420 Comics are weird

[@Himmyjewett]

So he's a drug addict just replace meth with lizard symbiote

[@LordLucario12]

Isn't Mayday Parker one of the most beloved Spider Man characters of all time? That alone makes me think that you're right and fans would be open to Peter having a kid.

[@andrewdau1299]

@@LordLucario12 They are open to it. That's why Renew your vows was so popular.

[@kaine7672]

I think when the ultimate universe was a thing, it was sort of a workaround for lizard syndrome, because if you didn't like how a character or event was in one universe you could just read stories from another

[@Wattzon17]

Holy sh*t. .... 9:12 I didn't think they could make the lizard look cool

[@germanscience7246]

I think an intersting way to change up lizards story would be that connors story would be have him turn into the lizard but he just...doesn't change personality wise from the transformation and after failing to turn back decides to just live this way. Like, he walks into peter's class to teach biology still fully transformed but wearing a lab coat, tie, specialized shoes, and maybe even a hat. And he just goes about trying to live his life while everyone around him is in utter astonishment that connors is now just this 8 foot tall sentient raptor thing and that he doesn't really seem to care that much. You could them develop this idea further by having question whether he has a responsibiltiy to use his abiliites to help protect others like spiderman or if he is allowed to follow his own path in life regardless of what he has become. You could then end that development by having him use his new form to protect his students and co-workers when they are in danger but not have him be a full time hero because he wants to live his life with his family and he genuinely believes that he can do more good as a scientist then he could ever do as a proper hero. This then just gives him lots of new possible interactions with the rest of the cast. Maybe he and peter collaborate frequently on new inventions, JJJ absolutely hates him because he thinks a giant 8 foot lizard being a teacher is an accident waiting to happen, maybe kraven comes to hunt this "great monster" he's heard about only to find out connors cares more about his job then entertaining kravens delusions and they only fight when he threatens to hurt his students. There is a lot of poteintal here I think

[@frankieseward8667]

Yeah. Having him be more of a hero definitely helps

[@pn2294]

The problem I feel is that Marvel considers the Lizard aspect to be the most important part of his character which is incredibly limiting.

[@frankieseward8667]

Yeah the Lizard is basically two people. Thry need to consider Dr Connors to expand upon the chatacter

[@Overanalyse_This]

I really enjoyed the way you brought the concept of characters being stuck in an unending cycle by repeatedly going through the same few points. Again. And again. And again.

[@super.hero.landing]

I've always had two interesting ways to fix the Lizard. I don't know if any iteration or anyone has ever done it so bare with me. *Lizard The Anti-Hero:* He should have story arcs that make him have no choice but to reform into The Lizard for the greater good. Make him be in debt to someone, or have another villain like Kingpin or Green Goblin, or another major villain threaten his family, like kidnapping them, not being able to have help from the police or Spider-Man. He'd only turn into his lizard form just to protect his family but at the cost of losing his sanity in the process. Or turn into the Lizard to be put up against another Spider-Man villain. He'd basically be the anti-hero, only feeling like he'd be able to help or get something done when necessary, turning him into the Lizard. It'd be a good reason why he'd turn into a villain briefly causing Spider-Man to step in because of him losing his grip as trying to stay as both Curt and the monster. *Drug-Addict/Giant-Lizard(?):* Or make him a drug addict. He'd be able to keep his arm with maybe a small dosage of lizard DNA. Make it so when it wears off the pain becomes unbearable for him, causing him to inject more and more to alleviate it, but becomes addictive where it slowly turns him into The Lizard. It could even get to the point where it's kinda like Ultimate Green Goblin, where the larger and larger doses that he takes, the increase in size and aggression. He'd be the GIANT lizard sort of like in Spider-Man 3 (video game), I'm not sure if he ever turned into a giant lizard before. Y'all can correct me if I'm wrong on that one. One of these two could cause him to be kind of like a fugitive, or criminal on the run. It'd actually be some cool character development for him. The anti-hero version would have be conflicted that if turning into The Lizard would only be a viable option if he's pushed to it, but knowing that he'd lose himself eventually where he won't turn back. Or in the Drug-Addict version, it'd cause him to lose relationships with his family, friends, destroy his career. But maybe it's cliche, maybe it's not that good enough. I don't know. That's how I'd like to see the Lizard in at least one of these adaptations.

[@IGN_OFFClAL]

Honestly? I think that the twist was great in a sense... but needed one simple change. not that kurt was ALWAYS able to control it... but that he learned to RECENTLY. that would have been a shakup that lead to more stories without spitting on the past ones. it's no less a twist if he has been faking being a monster for 20 issues or 1000, so why screw over continuity? don't change characters... evolve them. make subtle shakeups you can explore to their fullest extent and move on without changing the past. it's not absolutely a terrible thing to keep characters mostly the same with bit's and pieces added, subtracted, and changed, but the question you need to ask is "why is it important to do this?" I agree. I think the reason we are fatigued isn't that characters change too little, but that the big shakeups are just shock value we have no investment in.

[@abhaykrishna5985]

Hey you didn't complete the spiderman retrospective you still have to review Spiderman 2.. On PC dun dun daaaaahh. Oh the horror Best of luck with it

[@DARTH_COMiX]

i think they should take the spectecular route: make him the lisard ONCE than that's it. here's why: as you said he isn't so relevent. so the die hards would love it because it makes sense for curt's character, the casuals wouldn't really care, and marvel still makes money. no issues at all.

[@samtheweebo]

It's a creative issue, if you have a character that's known and liked forces will always push for them to remain in that known and liked state. You can develop them into something else, but eventually you run into a wall. I think a lot of Japanese comics do the right thing by ending after a time. If there is an actual end point then writers can make a thought out and purposeful arc. Without an end point characters meander through different times, values, and technologies. Events pile up to the point where no one can fully keep track of everything that has happened and it isn't really a story anymore it's just noise. Sometimes a large story arc that lasts for a year can like help to refresh the concept and give people an entry point and an exit point, but really characters should kind of end at some point.

[@xxsh4d0whjwjw34]

Mr. Mendoza, I found out that you are a marvel channel, nothing else, totally marvel, not just spider-man

[@tman3479]

Simple, focus a new story on Connor’s kid and his perspective. Use his perspective as a criticism of Kurt’s inconsistency has essentially ruined his perception of fatherhood, heroes, and scientists in general. Make it like that great Daredevil story about Leapfrog’s kid.

[@sclair2854]

"Even Batman had one of these" sept Damian's popularity has given him a permanant spot in batlore, he even survived a death. I'd hardly compare him especially in his current state to a "Three to four arc" kid

[@kabob0077]

13:51 You joke but someday there probably WILL be enough to fill a Pantheon.

[@SJ_RANKS]

I thought lizard was pretty entertaining in the spectacular Spider-Man cartoon having his wife and son be his lab partners I think is pretty interesting sure he turns into a raging mindless monster where his family worries about him but I like that his family (or his wife if you want to be technical) makes the antidote to cure him it changes the story up a little bit and I kinda like in the 2 seasons that connors doesn’t turn back into the lizard. I mean granted they were probably gonna turn him into the lizard in season 3 if he came back from Florida but I think spectacular Spider-Man did a pretty good job handling the lizard

[@ZooberWezeeKenzan]

Imagine if Connors used Axolotl DNA instead of reptile. A giant axolotl man attacking the city.

[@anonymousgoblin792]

I honestly love the Lizard. He's one of my favorite comic book characters ever created and deserves way more attention.