Going Over JonCon II

I sit down and go through Jon II (JonCon II) pointing out some easter eggs and talk about how things came together.
I mess up about an hour in and say that "beneath the gold, the bitter steel" as a cry isn't in the books. It is - Arianne mentions it in the Queenmaker chapter
Jon II:
docdro.id/PAEIj4Z
The Winds of Winter:
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[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

I mess up about an hour in and say that "beneath the gold, the bitter steel" as a cry isn't in the books. It is - Arianne mentions it in the Queenmaker chapter

[@MissSara42]

His foe is ahorse. I see what you did there, silly. Someone has been watching Glidus.

[@marcneef795]

But, where do horse go?

[@soraminamichishiro538]

@@marcneef795 Of a cliff, sadly.

[@marcneef795]

@@soraminamichishiro538 😪

[@hollin220]

Hahaha

[@Tennis932000]

@@marcneef795 wherever horse go😤

[@frankcommatobe8009]

If you never let an announced plan go accordingly, it becomes subversive to let it happen

[@hermithefrog629]

Always thought about this. How do you even subvert expectations this far down the rabbit hole? If you just have a plan be announced, go off flawlessly, and show it being pulled off, would that just be a montage? Would it even be considered a subversion, going so far around as to just be played straight again? Brb, need more blwo

[@halocemagnum8351]

Definitely my favorite line from the chapter was, "These boys are different, they *need* wine." All the buildup right before actually seeing the elephants decimate their opponents in combat was so good. "You still don't understand. It's *only* hammer." Plus the stuff with Aegon holding blackfyre. I can't wait for Aegon's march on King's landing, assuming he lives that long.

[@filipferencak2717]

He will. Aegon is going to take King's Landing, it is known.

[@lamnaa]

A really fun chapter. Love getting to see war elephants do their thing, they don't get used in fantasy enough. As my niche interest it's something I'm worried George is going to get wrong, in the West we have this idea that war elephants only win by surprise in the first battle, and after that the people fighting them figure out "One Weird Trick" that totally defeats them (stepping aside, flaming pigs, etc), proving them to be a expensive boondoggle. Forgetting that in India and South East Asia they used war elephants for something like 2000 years, and they only stopped being used in the Mediterranean because hostile Persian empires stopped their export, and North African populations died out. Elephants are like tanks, very effective when used properly in combined arms, but also easy to assume they are invincible and to get egg on your face when they are not. A fun use for them going forward would be in sieges. They might struggle with some of the more fantastical big castles of Westeros, but against smaller ones they could be very useful. Especially ramming down gates. There is a reason all the old gates in India have iron spikes at elephant head level. Also to note, elephants cope with cool temperatures fairly well, simply by being so big, though their ears might get frostbitten. Best practices in zoos recommend they be allowed free access to outdoors down to -5 to -10C (23 to 14F) so you don't have to have winter kill them immediately.

[@trippinzombiez]

Would be cool to see them used to pull gates open like the Giants did at the Wall

[@terrinils3165]

Spent five years on an aircraft carrier and there are a lot of sirens and alarms that go off. You will always wince at those sounds, no matter how many times you hear them.

[@Mj_Jetson]

still can't get over how awesome this chapter was... poor joncon. the tragedy of his story had always gripped me: just as the reader comes to grips with the whole "it doesn't matter who gets the ugly chair - just don't do war you guys" concept, enter this guy whose given more than a decade of his life, his reputation and now his health, sanity, ethics and eventually probably his life to put his candidate on the ugly chair. the one-handed Hand...

[@fyviane]

the next jon chapter could start with "jon was sitting the iron thone"

[@gokbay3057]

lmao. Ok, maybe not the next one but a JonCon chapter definitly should start that way.

[@bobbehwitchie]

Truthfully, Preston, on multiple listens, this chapter really holds up. I thought I may have been just hyped to get new material, but I've listened 3x now, and it hits the same as the first listen. This project is really keeping me interested. The writing and editing are perfect. Thank you for ALL, EVERYONE, for your hard work. ❤

[@MC-el2us]

Bernard Cornwall writes interesting and decent battle sequences, GRRM has praised him in the past, check him out if you need inspo

[@angelicaa3597]

Preston, personally I love the onomatopoeia! It's very in line with George's style and I think that audio effects would feel out of place since everything else is narrated. Do what works best for you :) Thank you for delivering these incredible chapters

[@marioincandenza7957]

My jaw dropped when Blackfyre was revealed. Love this!!!! Great job everyone!

[@manband20]

One thing that surprises me about Planetos warfare is how there really isn't a "textbook" on how wars are fought that is readily cited by major military commanders. Like we don't have a Sun Tzu or von Clausewitz writing the big text on Westeros/Essos styles of warfare that is cited by every major military mind in the world hundreds/thousands of years after the fact. Hell, we don't even have books written by the biggest commanders of the time. Someone like Aegon I or Tywin or Maegor discussing their strategies and their tactics in reference to Caesar's Commentaries or Maurice's Strategikon. I know George can't think of everything, but in a world where maesters and other learned men travel across the globe to visit great wonders, you'd think some military-minded individual would be the trailblazer in chronicling all the various tactics used by the 100+ nations and kingdoms to make a definitive textbook on how to fight a war and different methods of fighting. It'd be pretty interesting to have someone actually plan out such a book by the end of the story, regardless of if humanity defeats the Others or not.

[@chrisrubin6445]

"The Conquest of Dorne" by King Daeron I, the young dragon. It is referenced by Jon Snow and Arianne, and maybe others too.

[@manband20]

@@chrisrubin6445 I thought I remembered there being something, but I couldn't remember what. Still though, that was only one guy and he died shortly after. I want some massive epic that is used as the basis for warfare for everyone like how Art of War is still to this day.

[@gokbay3057]

Other than "the Conquest of Dorne" I think there was a mention of a book about Ghischari Lockstep Legions but I might be thinking of something mentioned in a fanfic.

[@barbaraludwiczak4728]

@@chrisrubin6445 Tyrion has in mind long passages of this book as well, when he meets Oberyn Martell. Daeron writes about the three types of Dornishmen - this passage is the clear parody/alusion to Caesar's Galia is omnis divisa in partes tres! Even though Doran Martell kind of dismisses the strategical value of Daeron's work as Targaryen propaganda. He says that Daeron made Dornish forces too strong in his writings and warns Arianne that she as a princess should know better.

[@alanpennie8013]

It's quite droll that in The Wars of The Roses the main military authority was a nun called Christine de Pisan. It would have been good if GRRM had found a way of referencing her.

[@hollin220]

Onomatopoeia is 100% accurate to George’s writing style. Every time I read the italicized Crow speak I cant help but read it in a Crow’s voice/ tone. CORN!CORN! I dont mind it when you do the chapter reading, that said the elephant call was fucking hilarious. My gf was in another room and she peaked in after the elephant call and was like, wtf is that noise lol. I was dying laughing and said, an elephant of course, you cant tell? lol

[@feral7523]

Would be cool if those Mountain clans under Tyrion that went into the Kingswood had joined Jon/Golden company to be used as a shock troop force.

[@shinjinobrave]

"Everything is going according to keikaku" Jon Connington

[@musculusiv4172]

Absolutely epic chapter! But I still don't see an answer to how Joncon could confidently predict that whoever was the Tyrell commander would allow Red Ronnet to ride ahead with the horse alone. His whole plan is based on that assumption! It could have easily been Tarly in command and then they would have been fucked

[@jonttopia]

I thought the enraged elephants were referencing Wun Wun, getting "giants" angry by cutting them and getting them drunk to cause chaos. Interesting that's it's actually how elephants were used, great coincident I suppose.

[@trippinzombiez]

Yoooo Preston did it again

[@J59592]

I think sound effects would really take me out of the story. Roy Dotrice reads the onomotopoeia the same way and it works fine.

[@howmany6824]

agreed

[@MrPhbahia]

love these "going over" vids, keep them up! it's good to see into the process, makes it more transparent and envolves the whole community.

[@Longshanks1690]

Ecamn Live Recording on 2023 04 04 at 23 00 31 is my favourite Preston Jacobs video.

[@alinaCatwatcher]

Your so funny!

[@migarsormrapophis2755]

@@alinaCatwatcher yore so funny

[@kyleholmes8230]

​@@migarsormrapophis2755 you're sew funny!

[@neko-chan6145]

Thank you to you and your contributors and editors for continuing the story, and doing it with acknowledgment to George’s style. Thanks

[@profoundpronoun4712]

Great job so far my friend. Great job ❤ kudos to the whole team!

[@Brassblitz]

This is one of my favorite chapters. Not just is the fan fiction, but one of my favorite in all of ASOIAF. I listened to it twice before I heard it was on of the most laborious and difficult chapters to write, and frankly, thank you! It is fantastic. It's so cinematic, so action packed, so full of backstory, I just fucking love it! I'd say it's gripping begining to end... maybe that's somewhat insensitive to major happenings in the plot... but seriously it is superb.

[@Aezeus]

I love the trumpets

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

That subtle Glimbus reference at the start, I see you Preston.

[@frankcommatobe8009]

The battle cry is sick. It would be so good if they filmed it. Michael Fassbender as Jon Con @RedTeamReview, yk that’d be a sick casting 52:56

[@Mj_Jetson]

yikes the horses in asoiaf are large. 😂 Here I thought it was crazy when whole tourneys were ahorse. Now whole armies?!? What happens when several people are adragon??? Dany's puny hatchlings won't stand a chance!

[@beneficent2557]

Destriers?

[@AncientOrange]

It would be funny to title Ghost's pov chapter "Ghost, of Winterfell"

[@Jord73]

I like the chapters a lot, Preston and writing team! If English was my first language I would definitely try to make a contribution. And thank you for doing these explanations and giving us a ‘glimpse from the editing room’. Very interesting! I hope you and your team maintain your enthusiasm and boost each other to great heights!

[@pave7119]

Omg thank you for doing all this work, would never see twow otherwise

[@archon8519]

Another great chapter but I think "brume" is being used very often. I'm getting nuncle vibes.

[@bram_412]

The brume brumed over the battlefield brumily, like butter where a few onions and turnips are swimming.

[@archon8519]

@@bram_412 fat pink brume

[@ramvasuthevan]

Nah, I loved the trumpet and elephant onomatopoeia!

[@WhoIsCalli]

Enjoyed this very much so. Love the ‘going through’ vids too. Please keep it up

[@ChairZomg]

you're awesome preston, thank you for all your great work

[@profoundpronoun4712]

Great work guys!!!

[@dmdeign7116]

Awesome chapter, love your Jonnington chapters

[@Bluemilk92]

This one was so exciting!

[@KingOfWinter]

I was someone who couldn’t really make out where everyone was so I very much appreciate the picture. As a history major who has been in the military and has studied military strategy for fun. I would say the men would’ve found a fixed position on the west side with the line extending up not outward. With either scouts or the officers hidden watching the enemy ready to give the signal for the top of the line to come down all the way across the point kind of like a falling trap door catching the Tyrell calvary inbetween. That would lower the chance of being seen by the enemy since you would only have a couple of people in the possible line of sight instead of half your infantry. As well as allow your men to start marching sooner giving them something to occupy their minds instead of fear which everyone feels before a battle even experienced hardened men almost especially them because they actually know what’s about to happen. Younger men with no experience are usually the ones more eager to fight usually because they still have a romantic/poetic view of war instead of seeing it as the slaughter it is. It would also give your line a little more momentum when crashing into the enemy horses.

[@Ravenicus]

imagine the hypothetical reader who thinks this is still a jon (snow) chapter by the end

[@nickycha8428]

You do a great service to the Fandom with your sample chapters. Please continue it. Do you wonder if George will take some ideas from you?

[@damnedwhale]

If he ever finds this, he likely will try to smite the whole project

[@johkupohkuxd1697]

He certainly won't, it might actually drive him into another stage of revision like what the show did.

[@gokbay3057]

George doesn't like fanfics unfortunately.

[@damnedwhale]

@@johkupohkuxd1697 Show’s his, homie. This ain’t. He’s still just a dude.

[@beneficent2557]

@@johkupohkuxd1697 You do not understand the rapaciousness of IP lawyers.

[@arvaakuka8568]

That stuff about the Swiss pike square almost makes me think this is what George is planning himself. You have a force of mostly infantry facing a huge cavalry attack in a world where cavalry dominates. And in real history you have this innovation that turns infantry into the dominant force again. There's this feeling in the story that we are slowly entering late medieval period and new innovations are bound to happen. It just fits too perfectly.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

Hate to be the 'well actually' guy but the pike did not displace heavy cavalry untill after the adition of gunpowder units to the formaiton. Knights could, and did, frontly charge pikes and win with minimal casualties. It happened fairly often infact. Even Swiss pikes were frontally ridden down by french heavy cavalry in the French-Italian wars. Even battles famous for the pikes winning were usually close run affairs. Take for example Kortrijk/Courtrai the french knights actually broke through the first pike wall (despite charging across a swollen stream and up a muddy hill) and its only the timely arrival of the flemish reserves to the point of pressure that won them the day. And that's just direct confrontation. The cavalry could (and often did) just avoid direct fighting and beat the pikes through manuavre. This is why pikes were never dominate in eastern Europe or the Middle East.

[@arvaakuka8568]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 This is all very interesting, thanks for the comment. I guess for the relevancy of my comment it really depends on how well George himself knows the history.

[@direpants9768]

You get a big like for that little "Ahorse". It just cracks me up every time :'D

[@umwha]

Great job

[@Gui101do]

Awesome chapter.

[@Mj_Jetson]

so the battle of steel was a fun little arc for JonCon and Arianne!!! some epic character development for both of them! although why did joncon feel the need to send Arianne into Storm's End. Like, I understand that its not the end of the world for JonCon if she's taken captive by Stannis, but what advantage does she offer by sending her to Storm's End, versus keeping her at griffin's roost? like, Arianne witnesses that Aegon isn't strong enough to take Storm's End through normal "honorable" means, and that he's so dishonorable that he's willing to kill people during a parlay. shouldn't he expect the dornish not to ever willingly support him after that?

[@hudsonlewer7486]

I think she is the ticket into storms end why would they just let a random ship parlay with them in the keep if she wasn’t there there would be no discussion about terms to begin with and Dennis would have no ability to get to the rookery at least that’s what I think

[@Mj_Jetson]

@@hudsonlewer7486 yeah i think that's a reasonable explanation. i just hope this gets addressed explicitly in the fanfic!

[@robw4803]

Her presence made Farring very very tired. He had to go to his bedroom and, ya know, rub his....eyes.

[@aedrorwindrunner4172]

The onomatopoeia is great, dont shy away from it! One of the best and most chilling moments of all time are the ones in the Storm prologue

[@ModernSynthesist]

I'm definitely here for the Jon trolling! Fantastic!

[@tjosiahhaynes]

I thought your onomatopoeias were as good as Roy Dotrice's! That did not take me out of it at all lol

[@wisdommanari6701]

Gets b4 the title was changed lmao 😊

[@richardkorsak4436]

thanks!

[@naponroy]

Beneath the waiting, this bitter Robin!

[@JoniukasVader]

Back are we and

[@WhoIsCalli]

Awesome

[@migarsormrapophis2755]

"Ecamm Live Recording on 2023 04 04 at 23 00 31"

[@invasorgabe714]

I have a question about the Tormund thing. You were averse to use a character because it clashed with what you established in another chapter. Obviously in this case it worked great, but say something similar happens later, would you be totally oposed to slightly changing a completed previous chapter? Cause I know it could be kind of a pain or get out of control, but I think it wouldn't be that bad if it was a little thing here and there.

[@marcneef795]

Theory: The Tyrell army is secretly a horse.

[@frank_6298]

There’s another layer to the flying horses that seems unintentional. Olenna Mace Tyrell’s father, Luthor, rode his horse off a cliff. And now Ronnet has rode Mace’s cavalry off a cliff. That’s gotta sting for poor Mace.

[@jamiemccollin438]

How do you choose which chapter to do next? Do you have a general roadmap, or do you know the full chapter structure that you're working from, or is it just what you want to work on next?

[@jdwest34]

Thanks

[@vanadium163]

Regarding 36:15 - We too love a Cressen reference!!

[@SHARKVADERS]

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

[@kyleholmes8230]

You make this same comment on every video and it's almost always the first comment. Please never stop doing that. And why have I never seen you at the live streams? You should come hang out with all the other nerds.

[@maylo3697]

Weren't the trees near Storm's End cut down by Stannis (In Catelyn Chapters ACOK)?

[@Nosraceroom]

How do you and the editors decide when to use different names for Jon? I noticed very frequent switching between Griff, Jon, Lord Jon, Jon Connington, etc?

[@manmanman2000]

20:44 I did like your trumpets 😊

[@ser_ryon_vine6392]

Love the little Jon Snow stuff y’all been doing…That said, I get the idea of not having Jon Snow as a POV character anymore since he’s tech dead, but, I just don’t see GRRM taking one of his three main characters and making him non POV after his resurrection.

[@Jordan-zl4pn]

Why not? He did it with Cat

[@AlexSwePR]

It could be done if it's just like one chapter at the end

[@ser_ryon_vine6392]

@@Jordan-zl4pn Jon is way more important to the series than cat.

[@Jordan-zl4pn]

@@ser_ryon_vine6392 says who? We’re only like 2/3 into the story. Ned was important too and look what happened there

[@alanpennie8013]

Cuz and nuncle are cod Shakespearean. I don't know if anyone else remembers ER Eddison, who wrote entire fantasy novels in cod Shakespearean.

[@silverstorm3729]

Can the plum and peach metaphors be considered food descriptions? 🤔 You guys have even sneaked in George's love for food into a battle chapter! Great chapter, as always!

[@vanadium163]

Snape's crush died far too young and he bullied her son relentlessly. JonCon's crush died far too young and he raised his son as his own, even referring to him as "our son". JonCon is the GOAT!

[@TheKrostiman]

Napoleon’s huge infranty squares were an amazing evolution later after pike squares

[@Kaknamenuss]

I really thought the 'siege engines aren't used in pitched battles' was a reference to the battle of fire, especially with the 'Plum'.

[@yakirchernin6015]

I LOVED the omanapia

[@berkowk]

This battle felt like reversed Pelenor field where elephants crushed rohhirim

[@99rei99]

I was about to say I’m first comment/view, but PJ himself beat me to it! Lol

[@pj9615]

Preston, are there transcripts of the fanfic posted anywhere? I’m not great at following the story in audio form only.

[@Ben___]

There are links in each chapter's video descriptions that contains a document to the full text

[@shinjinobrave]

there's a LOTR reference at the end that you didn't even mention "scattered, broken, leaderless." in stead of "scattered, divided, leaderless."

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

9:05 poorly trained pikes actualy seldom did well. Sure they don't have the same level of training as knights but 2 weeks of training was not enough. Even flemish pikemen who were relatively lowly trained compaired to others were still training regularly long before they were deployed. Not 2 short weeks before battle. Also it wasn't really a revolution with pikes. Its pike and shot that caused the 'infantry revolution'. Pikes on their own were too vulnerable, heavy cavalry remained dominant long after pikes alone were on the battlefield.

[@RumbleRed]

Not sure how intentional this is, but JonCon at the end sure seems like a dead man smiling sadly. He's not at the prow of a ship, but he can taste salt, and I'll bet there are broken ships in that bay. His lips aren't grey either, but one of his hands might be.

[@espalier]

I definitely enjoyed the alliteration and onomatopoeia.

[@tobylarone6451]

Scottish schiltrons are another interesting example of pike formations

[@paulcato3434]

To be fair, very few elephants are circumcised.

[@731freeman]

The trumpets are insufferable… and you can’t stop now. It’s your signature, never stop.

[@DaveFreeborn]

As far as Jon's mental deterioration goes, I'm no neurosurgeon but if I understand the brain it seems like it starts turning to stone from the back towards the medulla oblengota causing mindless violence and anger to the stem causing death. This means Jon will get extremely dumb before he gets wreckless

[@Papciopolak]

Quaith's mask is from Qohor? Curious...

[@user-ee6ee3rd6f]

I think the last person who had blackfyre was Daemon III and he was killed by Dunk. Either he or Haegon

[@marijntaal1531]

The Long Lances?

[@renoutlaw8371]

1:38 lol

[@trippinzombiez]

I would pay for art of Aegon atop Baleriphant

[@wicNKWD37]

Great chapter, loved the trumpets. But I am curious as to where you read that swiss pikemen weren't well trained. Holding a long pike and being able to quickly maneuver around requires a lot of training.

[@richardides2035]

Thay should bring Wyverns too.

[@theletterm5425]

Jon being kind of ambivalent about wether Dorne supports them or not could perhaps be tied to a disdain against the Martells specifically out of jealousy of Elia Martell for marrying Rhaegar. If he's already going crazy, thinking Aegon to be his and Rhaegar's son, why not include the element of jealousy of the woman who "stole his silver prince"?

[@jherm123]

The onomatopoeia is great idk why people are complaining

[@chuckstein4455]

Wouldn’t the third be a crown of some Targaryen king? Edit: Balerion’s saddle is in any case a sick idea, GRRM would love to come up with that hahah

[@p.j.panebianco5403]

The question, when will Faegon be revealed? Oh, and will there be Clegane bowl? I know it’s not likely but it would be cool. Anyway do what ever you want with your fanfic, it is and will be awesome.

[@LiverpoolfanINchina]

Who got who pregnant? rhaegar or jon con?

[@lomiification]

If the whole opposing army is a horse, it should be pretty easy, as long as barristan's army isnt also a horse At least barristan could ride his army to fight agaisnt the unridden horse of his enemy

[@alnahian1796]

With all this jon subverting of expectations soon we will get a real jon chapter but we won't see it coming

[@nyceric95]

Yo

[@JacobTemplar]

Wait his foes are horses?

[@jasongarshfield5609]

You should write a novel of your own. You put more thought into things like word choice than a lot of professional writers do probably. Would be interesting to see what your imagination could do starting from scratch. Don’t stop with the fanfic, though!

[@jonttopia]

He has written a book, I believe it's in the final stages of editing or maybe even that's done and he's just working on publishing it.