Going Over Tyrion III, A Game of Thrones

[@HAL-cp4mt]

Forgoten? This is the chapter where Tyrion stands on the table and pokes Alliser Thorne with a fork!

[@KaritKtana]

* Alliser

[@HAL-cp4mt]

Edited, thanks​@@KaritKtana

[@idod1345]

criminal that they didn’t include that in the show

[@kyleholmes8230]

Preston: this chapter is redundant. Also Preston: this part isn't necessarily necessary. 45:00

[@KaritKtana]

Jon's request that Tyrion help Bran -> Tyrion designing Bran a special saddle -> Bran riding out -> Capturing Osha -> Bran & Rickon's survival

[@darkoilic8553]

Was Jon who asked for help or Tyrion did it himself?

[@maradjade1848]

This is actually my favorite Tyrion chapter In the whole series. I'm not kidding. It sets up alot of stuff we will unfortunately never see the payout of.

[@jbailey5061]

I'm surprised you didn't talk about how utterly insane it was that Ser Alliser challenged a noble guest, the Queens brother at that, to a duel. George can be a bit inconsistent with what is and isn't taboo.

[@lastEvergreen]

In the context it’s obviously not a real challenge just a ploy to try to humiliate or scare Tyrion. As shown later in the book the idea of fighting a dwarf would be embarrassing and be seen as dishonorable when Tyrion has his first trial by combat.

[@manband20]

"Hey, Lannister." Ser Alliser spat on the roasted mutton the Lord Commander was trying to cut through. "I didn't hear no bell."

[@SvenskTiger-q2s]

(brother of the queen CONSORT, important to notice that - tyrion is not from the royal family) Anyway, at first it felt more like an insult towards Tyrion and not a threat/challenge. When Allister does the threat it just felt that he kinda lost his temper (hotheaded people do this all the time in real life fully-KNOWING the consequences). It does not feel insane, just bold. btw, I actually don't think it is crime if a knight insults a lord that its not your liege (the liege I am quite sure, considering the Robb Stark-Umber dinner episode). IF Ser Gregor did that to Ned Stark, would that be a crime? If he did towards Tywin I am quite sure it would be. (I just mean "crime" as to be judge on a trial, ofc it is always dangerous to insult the warden of the north). One other thing, the brothers of the NW are supposed to be kinda unteachable right? I mean, if u murder the Kings Brother there's no way you can escape justice (Mormont himself would sentence him in that matter). Knowing that Allister is no coward at all , would that be really a utterly insane thing to do on his perspective?

[@tamerofhorses2200]

George is highly inconsistent with the "groundedness" of his worldbuilding.

[@astrinymris9953]

Pausing at 13:50 to note that Benjen Stark is a grown-ass man whereas Jon Snow is a 15-year-old hasn't even taken his vows yet, and thus at a higher risk of defecting. Mind you, it wouldn't technically be defecting since he hasn't taken his vows yet, but Jeor Mormont has probably noticed Jon's brains and martial skills, and given the usual quality of recruits the Night Watch receives, is probably reluctant to put him in a situation where it would be so tempting for him to bail out. That's how I interpreted Mormont's statement, anyway.

[@joshhoffman5233]

I think they’re laughing bc it is funny to them. Remember how people laugh at dwarf follies. Tyrion is kinda embracing that. So seeing ser alliser get hassled/drawn into what resembles a stage comedy, by a dwarf, probably is quite funny

[@Temperancefp]

Exactly! Mormont suspect it but he knows he needs proof! That’s why he makes the big expedition! Like today, people say ‘oh that’s not proof of climate change’

[@ormurin6441]

Yeah they don't get many Netflix specials on the wall they'll take any humour they can.

[@drakengarfinkel3133]

Jeor: I have three men for every mile of wall. Tyrion: 🤓

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

19:50 Nah I just took it as he meant he raised the Night's watch higher. making it stronger.

[@wyomingptt]

Ikr. It seems so freaking obvious lol but he just runs with it.

[@fleshbhones]

The line about Aemon rarely being called "kind" is quite strange. Aemon is one of the most compassionate characters in the story.

[@candide6005]

I had the same thought... It clearly is just a structural thing (parallelism) for the compliments they share.

[@gokbay3057]

It is a direct parallel to Tyrion's "I have seldom been called giant" thing. But I agree that Aemon's statement makes little change based on what we know of him.

[@j-rey-]

I think it was just a joke.

[@OrionJA]

Aemon is compassionate, but he also seems like someone who can be relief on to say what he thinks. When Tyrion calls him "kind" what he means is that Aemon is flattering him. Aemon is not a flatterer and would not commonly be accused of flattery. In this sense, he is indeed rarely called "kind."

[@highlandoutsider]

I think Brans saddle was the reason he felt compelled to go to the top of the wall (by BR) getting Bran riding again would increase his chances of getting him to the cave or maybe facilitating the meeting with Osha

[@longjones]

To Night Watch's knowledge about Whitewalkers and doing nothing about it, it's a standard operating procedure of humans. We have known about climate crisis for decades and do nothing. Even though we know that at some stage, it will be an unstoppable process.

[@j-rey-]

For real. And what the h*ll are they even supposed to do about it? 😆 They pretty much do all they can. Jeor pleads with the Queen's brother for more men, sends Alliser south with the wight hand to show to the King in an effort for the 7 kingdoms to take the threat seriously, and leads the Great Ranging north to see what is going on. Once Jon returns to the Wall in book 3, they fight off the Wildling attack, Jon is named Lord Commander, and then Jon spends all of book 5 preparing for winter and a likely Others invasion. That's more than humans are doing about climate change. Everyone in positions of power only cares about money. Since the Night's Watch has no money nor power, they can actually take their jobs somewhat seriously.

[@lastEvergreen]

That or they know more than they let on and the big speech to Tyrion was just more theater for his benefit to get money and men out of him. The Watch clearly historically and recently has some sort of relationship with the Others. So they’re not afraid of them as the people who don’t know anything about them are and know they’re not some apocalyptic super villains. Just altered humans who need genes from other sources for diversity.

[@leomesser415]

5:14 nah that stuff is genuinely funny! Bloodraven even found it funny Preston

[@astrinymris9953]

Re: 25-year-old Tyrion having seen 8 or 9 winters, despite the current nine year summer - I think we have to chalk that up to GRRM's inconsistent interest in applying math to his fantasy universe. He cares to have Tyrion correct Mormont about how many men he has relative to the length of the Wall, but doesn't stop to think that "eight winters" in 16 years means one winter every two years. This could be a case of an unreliable narrator, if it weren't for Tyrion's pedantic reply to Mormont about his arithmetic. Mind you, this discrepancy may partly be due to the fact that Martin hadn't yet decided exactly how old he wanted to have Tyrion be when he wrote GoT, other than "older than 24, but younger than Cersei and Jaime". But even making Tyrion 30 years old doesn't help much, because that gives you at best one winter every 2.625 years. Given how important winters are in ASOIAF, you'd think GRRM would have taken a few seconds to come up with a reasonable answer.

[@KaritKtana]

It took me a long time to realize it's actually Ser *Alliser* - there's no T in his name!

[@GodKingReiss]

Every time someone calls Alliser “Allister”, Winds is delayed by one day.

[@patrickdematosribeiro1845]

His cruelty is not the only thing making Ser Alliser a bad master of arms. What's worse he doesn't teach them anything. He just let's them fight shouts at the winner: "You were bad." and at the looser: "You were even worse." If he shouted at the winner: "You were bad, in this situation you could have done this to win more quickly" and at the looser: "You were even worse, you should have done this" he would still be cruel, but his lessons might be useful.

[@basoon87]

I always took everyone laughing at Tyrion's jokes as being a bit of sucking up, but mostly them just kind of hating Ser Alliser Thorne. I always got the impression that his title is what got him where he is, rather than any particular ability, and most of the rest of the officers recognize that he doesn't usually turn out the best recruits. But he's highborn, so it would be uncouth to promote an abler man over him. We get a bit of this class tension in the prologue as well, with Waymar Royce demanding to lead a ranging despite inexperience.

[@reaver1414]

It may not be fake laughter. For one the men have been drinking, second they work in a cold and miserable place and looking for anything to take their minds off of it, and last Tyrion is a dwarf and everything is funnier coming from a dwarf.

[@aaronholland4107]

If the wall is being topped with gravel constantly that would be why the wall is growing. Less patrolling the top with less men means less gravel being melted into the wall.

[@waterman121]

The broken catapult strikes me as a symbol of the decrepitude of the Night's Watch as a fighting force. Broken down, half embedded in ice, like a discarded toy. Not taken seriously, no use, not in any shape to put up a proper defense. It bolsters Mormont's plea for aid. 37:10 Also, I'm going to push back on Preston's evaluation of this chapter as "filler". Sure, only two or three plot elements are advanced, but this is a perfect chapter to evaluate in light of other chapters so far. For example, the first time reader will be wrestling with the knowledge that Ned and Cat believe Tyrion to be the one who hired the Catspaw. While also seeing that Tyrion treats Jon and this hodgepodge of criminals with decency (mostly). Additionally, we are getting to know this location now in a Tolkein-ish way, and the "mood" of this chapter is reflective, observational, like looking out into the void at the end of the world. The wolves beginning to howl always gives me chills. I love this chapter's devotion to description, because it is the *music* of the story, not just the tangled plot that makes ASOIAF an enjoyable read. Edit: added rant about GRRM's descriptive writing being good, actually

[@reaver1414]

I pictured Royce saying "wait till my father hears about this!" Like Draco Malfoy.

[@chuckstein4455]

GRRM never gets into it, but I’m pretty sure that noble families with sons at the Wall send yearly contributions in coin and food and drink and clothing, right? Just like in our world with powerful families contributing to universities and schools their children attend

[@picklejarmonsterfanboy9367]

Does George have a bad sense of humor? Tyrion is rarely that funny, but Stannis is hillarious, yet the characters refer to one as witty and the other as humorless.

[@jj947]

It might just be overexposure. We’ve all probably heard every jape of Tyrion’s a hundred times.

[@picklejarmonsterfanboy9367]

@jj947 Probably. I read the books after watching the show, so I was annoyed by Tyrion from the start.

[@santsi7306]

Stannis is actually hilarious lol now that you mention it I have lold at him vs tyrion

[@gavincopley7070]

I think the not letting jon visit home thing is more because he is so new, it be like tempting him to desert the watch. Id assume benjen didnt get these priveleages till he rose in the ranks a bit

[@Blckrngr]

I think that "....each commander raised the wall higher than he found it " could possibly mean that they increased the number of recruits (initially, of course)

[@inkarnator7717]

I think what George is going for here is the Night's Watch trying to warn everyone but nobody listening to them. Which in my opinion is a bit weak. Jeor Mormont is a reputable man and probably has more than amicable relations with the Starks, one of the greatest houses in the realm. Jeor does not need the Lannisters right now. His no.1 priority should be trying to get his message to Eddard, preferrably in person.

[@j-rey-]

Good point. I'm surprised I never thought of that. H*ll, the First Ranger, someone who would know first hand how dangerous things could get, is Ned's brother. Ned should probably be pretty convinced that something serious is happening beyond the Wall.

[@someoneelse5923]

21:00 he’s clearly speaking metaphorically

[@viridianveritas]

I like the ambiguity. I agree he's probably talking about the status and capability of the watch not the physical wall, but maybe there are still mysteries.

[@lastEvergreen]

Either that or mythologically. Most likely the Watch was still pretty much in decline by the time Jeor got there so not likely there was a recent effort to make the Wall taller. But maybe there are stories of historical commanders doing it.

[@joshhoffman5233]

I feel like (and the numbers thing is more support) that George has had relatively clear ideas about what will go down at the wall. Same for where dany ends up. It’s just everything else that has run wild out of his control. Which to me helps explain the South Park episode where all this time is wasting when they were just waiting for dragons and zombies. South Park called it actually

[@TrishStansfield]

Happy New Year! Wishing a wonderful 2025 to you, Preston, your loved ones & to this fantastic ASOIAF / GOT community you’ve created. So many of us began with a passion for ASOIAF, later to find a welcoming & entertaining fandom with a particular bent appealing to our natures. Thank you for building this safe space & sharing your theories & masterful analyses. In short, Preston, you’re badass! 🎉🥳🍾 🗽⚖️🌎

[@ormurin6441]

I like how mormonts escort to tyrion is mirrored when jon gives tycho and escort for a favour. It's like how cressen comes back in the theon sample chapter to help stannis.

[@aaron.k.]

"They find out over and over and over again, and nothing gets done about it." So, like climate change, the problems with the US healthcare system, gun control in the US.... Unfortunately, this seems pretty realistic to me.

[@j-rey-]

Exactly 😆. I already responded to a similar comment, so I won't write it all again, but they pretty much do all they can with the resources they have. Beg for more men, lead rangings, send a reanimated wight hand south, etc., and try to stay alive while doing so.

[@lastEvergreen]

The Watch had a relationship with the Others see the Night Fort gate. They probably still have some connection see Craster. They know the Others are just a few people and need to seek gene diversity from unaltered humans. So they’re not worried about them because they know they’re not some apocalypse causing demons. The Others are just altered humans.

[@convenientlyshapedlamp8664]

Always excited for these uploads! One of my favorite KZbinrs discussing my favorite book in the series 😁

[@joshhoffman5233]

I’d like to model the wall ice with whatever we think the temperatures would be, over let’s say 100 years. I think it would be quite the mess. Tons of ice at the bottom from the weeping and melting slower at the bottom. So it would be getting hella wide at the bottom. That’s all forgetting about the desalinization magic

[@everethwilkins7076]

Preston where's the new Arys Oakheart chapter of the fanfic?

[@picklejarmonsterfanboy9367]

Arys dead, but Aerys II is alive. A decoy was used. Jaime kept his vow and protected the king.

[@Victor_Iovianus]

This is personally one of my favourites just because of the pretty descriptions.

[@TrishStansfield]

Thanks for taking my mind off of NOLA ☺️

[@Nerdcissist]

Love you pj big fan from nepal

[@Ludovicus-Wyndham]

Gurkha warriors dissect your praise and laugh uproariously

[@faisalkamal4319]

the moutains look like nipples

[@jj947]

Writing in-universe comedy in anything is hard. If you write out “they all laughed” at a character’s joke, you’re assuming the joke you (the author) wrote is funny enough for audible laughter. Always feels a little arrogant, even if you aren’t and don’t intend to come off that way.

[@kieran10202]

Tyrion Vs Bloodraven in winds of winter?

[@gokbay3057]

18:20 Maybe Gared would have been listened to had he not deserted his post and stayed at the Wall. With him reporting about what happened with the Others, Waymar and Will Benjen might not have went on a ranging to disappear at all (though he likely would as some sort of ranging would be made to prove or disprove Gared's claims and hopefully recover Waymar's body). 28:30 Mormont certainly believes that there is a serious danger and that they need more men but I am not sure if you can say that he "knows" that Others are coming. He has suspicions and feelings in that direction sure, but I don't think he knows for sure until the Wight attack that Jon saves him from. (Indeed him saying "they are running but running from what?" sopports that argument on him not being certain about it and ready to openly declare that the threat is Others.) 41:50 I am pretty sure most of the Commanders of the Watch have been Rangers, not Stewards. Indeed, that certainly seemed like how the popularity was leaning in the election initially. If anything being a Ranger would make it likelier to become Lord Commander. (I know we have the Lord Commander's personal steward groomed for command thing, but otherwise the Watch seems to usually turn to warriors for leadership. Hence the acting First Ranger Ryker being the other target of the Wights alongside Mormont.)

[@maxwell_j_R]

8:16 an error / later retconned by GRRM? Thorne joins when Qorgyle is Lord Commander.

[@aurick861]

It's all just making it feel more real. Haven't you ever sent another email after they ignored the first one? It's just a "gentle reminder..."

[@alecatnight1540]

It’s so forgettable Jon forgets about this chapter in dance

[@santsi7306]

super grateful for the upload 😅 hopefully everybody in the eastern US is staying warm 🙏

[@jayandrews807]

Night's Watch officers could be Krispy Kreme employees with this level of glazing

[@lastEvergreen]

Why is Jeor worried about who will succeed him? Wouldn’t Benjen be the obvious pick to ingratiate himself more to Winterfell the biggest contributor to the Night’s Watch?

[@patrickdematosribeiro1845]

Maybe he is worried because Benjen is currently missing and he has a reason to fear the one man who would be a good choice might be dead.

[@UncleBeastyYT]

I love this chapter. Tyrion asking who's gonna save Jon is one of the saddest moments in the franchise to me.

[@ramiveiberman3182]

PJ I I really enjoy this series. please keep on!

[@HickoryBill]

16/2=8 you *only* need a winter every other year for Tyrion’s winter count to work. There are a few ways to interpret that

[@hamletfisherman5740]

Tyrion strangely decided to get to the top of the Wall after staring at the Wall bathed in moonlight, bringing back the idea of satellites and people manipulating with glass candles, no?

[@CosmicCorviknight]

How long does Spring last in Westeros and what is it like? Do you get 2-3 years of cherry blossoms and daffodils but no plants progressing to the stage of fruits and harvests of late summer/autumn?

[@TrishStansfield]

The redundancy in Tyrion III is not unlike that in HOTD. “The war begins!!!” At times verbally declared, at others, the Dance is announced by the camera & direction. Regardless, we keep waiting for the pay-off.

[@_e1i]

He said they were all short winters so it’s not that hard to square. If he was born mid winter and the last winter ended when he was sixteen that leaves maybe fourteen years for the remaining 6 or 7 winters. So they would be occurring at roughly two year intervals. Whether it contradicts other information elsewhere in the book I don’t know, but it makes sense here

[@everethwilkins7076]

I just had a dream Preston was playing Elden Ring with Carmine and got stuck inside a little house with a red door (no kidding) because a Havel/like knight was tracking him and set his character on fire. Also he didn't have his Estus equipped and had to traverse all his inventory while fighting to regain his life bar. Then they both raced through uphill levels looting corpses. Is someone warging me through the weirwood net sending me greendreams predicting preston and co/ game playing? 10/10

[@oryslothston5968]

“Behind the King’s Tower, the wall glimmered in the light of the moon…suddenly a strange madness took hold of him, a yearning” Glass candle rather than Three Eyed Crow?

[@childofpersia1213]

You know this just made me think - why isn’t Sir Allister slightly more kind to Sam given both families were loyalists to the Targs? You think he would have a soft spot for the Tarlys as a result

[@princelorian]

Oh hell ya. Thanks!

[@AzorAhaiReborn]

i like this one a lot

[@sirsplintfastthepungent1373]

@30:16 The need is strong.

[@whyismyricewet1986]

What's the schedule for winds fanfic?

[@Franz_Morhart]

Redundant? No. A Dance With Dragons writing style? No

[@Mars2i0]

I love you man, but this “Going Over” series could be titled “Um, actually”

[@sirsplintfastthepungent1373]

Also, it's kinda funny how forgettable and redundant this chapter is, given the moment GRRM stood on Hadrian's Wall inspired the series.

[@pwnagenuss]

Ffs can you finally do an old style video about, or rather, a list of all the dumb stuff tyrion done

[@FirstLight666-e9v]

Is dance a filler book? 🤔

[@candide6005]

Mormont's decision to leave Bear Island and join the Night's Watch is closely tied to his son, Jorah Mormont. His son's disgrace made it difficult for Jeor to continue as the Lord of Bear Island, so he abdicated his title and joined the Night's Watch, perhaps to distance himself from his son's actions and to find a new purpose. Maybe it is hard for the southern Lords to take this man's word at face value and hence the perceived redundancy.

[@gokbay3057]

I am pretty sure Jorah was the lord for a time (ie Jeor joined the Watch before Jorah did the whole slavery thing).

[@aaron.k.]

"They find out over and over and over again, and nothing gets done about it." So, like climate change, the problems with the US healthcare system, gun control in the US.... Unfortunately, this seems pretty realistic to me.

[@trippinzombiez]

The difference being that this is inconsistent writing versus American stupidity lol

[@waterman121]

I thought the same thing.

[@AJ0223]

I just bought a new pistol as a late Christmas gift to myself actually. New tradition the last 2 years now. God bless America. Little weasel.

[@dee-taylor]

​@@AJ0223 these pencil-necked soyboys have it alllll figured out eh? 😂

[@TH3DUDE0075]

Everything has a cost. It’s a childish and naive perspective to think “well the word has problems so just change the laws and fix them” as more often that not those changes disturb an equilibrium and cause far worse problems. For example “there’s a nasty flu going around that’s dangerous to old/obese/immunocompromised so let’s all stay home until it has passed, can’t afford your bills while we wait? We will print money to send your way. Problem solved” - only to realize you just flipped supply and demand on its head and caused exponentially more suffering through inflation than we would have experienced to just let the virus run its course. There are no easy solutions and sometimes you must just accept the problems because your solutions comes with worse problems.