GoPro Fusion review (2018): ULTIMATE IN-DEPTH review + tutorial guide + comparison

[@360vroomers]

Comprehensive GoPro review page: goo.gl/ha4wPx GoPro Fusion is available here: amzn.to/2FzFqjP Download samples here drive.google.com/open?id=1L5wT4gNIB-EqqgFGOGBQ_HGxZU1rkqQt TABLE of CONTENTS 01:12 Part 1 - 10 game changers vs Hero 6 and other GoPros and action cameras 04:52 Part 2 - How to shoot with the Fusion 05:36 How to use overcapture 06:44 7 Shooting techniques 07:52 Part 3 - Is it worth it? 08:54 Photo advantages and disadvantages 09:30 Raw vs JPEG comparison, how to stitch 10:18 Video advantages and disadvantages 10:37 GoPro Fusion vs. Insta360 Pro 12:15 Usability advantages and disadvantages 13:27 GoPro Fusion evaluation 14:06 Comparison with other 360 cameras 14:16 Photo: Xiaomi Mijia Mi Sphere 14:38 Photo: Insta360 One 15:00 Video: Yi 360 VR 15:26 Video: Insta360 One 15:56 Video: Xiaomi Mijia Mi Sphere 16:08 Video: Ricoh Theta V 16:25 Video: Rylo 16:45 Video: Garmin Virb 360 17:02 Conclusion and summary

[@360vroomers]

Hi VTC. Yes I've seen that review. As I mentioned in my review, you do need to have a PC that meets the minimum specs. He tried to stitch the video on a laptop. I don't know what laptop he has, but most laptops don't have a dedicated graphics card, which the minimum specs do mention. Moreover, it seems like he connected the Fusion and tried to stitch the files from the Fusion itself. If that's the case, doing that slows down the process tremendously. As I also mentioned in my review, it is faster to transfer the files to your hard drive first. And he probably was not sufficiently selective when he shot his videos, which is why he ended up with a ton of videos to stitch, most of which were unused anyway. I could go on and on but these are just some of the possible reasons. The truth is, even my $400 PC handles the Fusion just fine (i5-4590, 8GB, GTX 1050 Ti). You don't need a super powerful gaming PC for the Fusion. I can't blame him because the fact is he's not a 360 shooter. As you may know I shoot 360 almost exclusively. If you watch reviews from other 360 shooters such as SuperHelix Visual or Life in 360, you'll see that their observations are consistent with mine. So the question is if you're looking for a 360 camera review, whose opinion carries more weight -- that of a less experienced 360 shooter, or a more experienced 360 shooter?

[@kangeroobru]

Thanks for your review and samples. Just what I've been looking for.

[@nikolaosgkougkoulias449]

i dont see stabilization to work at all when I shoot TimeLapse Video. I checked it with firmware 1.80 and 2.0. Also checked it with Fusion Studio 1.3 and 1.4 Does it really support stabilization on TL Video ???

[@BenClaremont]

Nice work buddy- your best video yet! Fusion is gonna be hard to beat in 2018.

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Ben! Yes Fusion is so awesome that's why I thought to make a review that's deserving of it 😁 Thanks again buddy! Best regards, Mic

[@ChristopherLMunoz]

Great review. Finally some real use footage. Nothing Hollywood just ordinary use like most of us. Cheers

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Christopher! yes i agree real world footage is best (not shot with a large production budget etc.)! 😃 best regards, mic

[@rodrigo_dalet]

WOW!! your content is amazing! Thank you very much, it's the most complete video I've found ... and I've spent many hours searching! Greetings from Chile, thank you again

[@360vroomers]

Thanks buddy! I'm glad you found my video because my channel is still small, and it's not easy for people to find my video with so many other bigger channels reviewing the fusion too. 😁 hopefully with more people sharing and commenting, more people will find this video and benefit from the information! 💪 best regards, mic

[@freddyjaramillo71]

Your videos help me a lot with my workflow. Thanks a lot for all the info and great collection of videos.

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Freddy! im' actually working on a very interesting one about workflow. I will hopefully finish it in a couple of weeks! I think you'll find it useful! Thanks again for watching my videos :D Best regards, Mic

[@franciswong26]

Great job Mic! I love your work!

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much FranCis! 👍 I really appreciate your taking the time to leave feedback and encouragement! It's thanks to viewers like you that I will strive to do my best! Best regards, Mic

[@Basicbill]

Nicely done. Very comprehensive. I'm sure that was a ton of work.

[@360vroomers]

Hey there Bill! Good to hear from you buddy! Thank you very much! Yes I'm not ashamed to say this is my magnum opus. I poured my heart and soul into making this video, because my hope was to reach non-360 shooters and persuade them to try out a 360 camera (fusion or otherwise). 😀 Best regards, Mic

[@guillaumetell9973]

Thank you for the amazing videos you produce ! Question: can you show us a picture please (or a short text description) of the mount you have used to get the image at 7:50 please? Or was someone else filming? Cheers

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Guillaume! For the toy gun, I attached the Fusion using this mount amzn.to/2wk0lnd And it does look a bit like there was a camera man which is one of the reasons I really love 360 :D Thanks again Guillaume!

[@EliasPerez-cf5gp]

I agree 100000000000% with your review. I have the Fusion and its definitely the best. I also had the Theta S, Theta V, Insta 360 one and samsung gear 360. I filmed my last vacation trip with it and its soooooooooo much better than regular videos! I feel like I am back in the place. Something that is truly immersive is the 3D audio. That, combined with the excellent sharpness and stability makes you feel like you are inside!

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Elias!!! 😁 Yes I agree the 360 audio is awesome and I love how easy it is to use it! I will post a 360 audio sample soon! Best regards, Mic

[@360vroomers]

For anyone reading this comment, Elias is right about the spatial audio. Here is a 360 video with spatial audio sample for anyone who wants to hear it kzbin.info/www/bejne/oH-9YqyYibKUmJY Best regards, Mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

The only problem with it that post production of video takes ages in gopro studio.

[@360vroomers]

Hi Chris. That's only partly true. If you don't have a dedicated GPU then yes it will take a very long time, or even fail to stitch. But if you have even a GTX 1050 Ti 4GB (around $200 amzn.to/2KHN11U) , then stitching takes as little as 7:1 (7 mins per 1 min of video) which is actually faster than some other 360 cameras such as the Gear 360. I've recommended it to people who previously had trouble with the fusion and now they are as happy as clams :) Best regards, mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Thank you bro. Yesterday i bought the gopro fusion. I will receive it tuesday. I have a HP Pavilion Power 17-ab354nd 17,3 inch notebook (specs: intel core i7, 16gb of RAM and a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti videocard). www.wehkamp.nl/elektronica/laptops/windows-laptops/hp-pavilion-power-17-ab354nd-17-3-inch-full-hd-ips-laptop/C26_6F4_F41_445729/origin=orderdetail_product_image&Artikelnummer=44572. Is this notebook fast enough? It seems to correspond with the videocard you mentioned above.

[@sergiobasilioli384]

Great video! Now I'm convinced to buy the Fusion.

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Sergio! As long as your desktop has a dedicated GPU to stitch the Fusion files, the Fusion is the best 360 camera for 360 video right now -- and it's now even better with RAW stitching! Congrats! Best regards, Mic

[@wonkee184]

Mic brilliant excellent & thanks, I know this vid didn’t fall outa the sky & you put a lot of work into your content, had lg 360 cam when you posted your first mi sphere vid & ordered straight away with no regrets on your review, now have endless family pics / vids & paid vt’s to say the least, and for that I thank you, as always best regards Won & please know I appreciate & keep up your outstanding work PS will still stick with Mi for photos

[@360vroomers]

Won Kee hello dear friend! Good to hear from you! I'm so glad the mi sphere worked well for you and i agree for photos it is a better choice. Thanks for the props and congrats on your success with 360! 😀😀😀 best regards, mic

[@JCPicache]

Wow that was insanely thorough. Thanks for this.

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Carlito! Thanks to encouraging feedback from you and other viewers, I'll make my other videos just as thorough! 😀 Best regards, Mic

[@jook360]

Thanks Mic Ty. Nice to meet you in Tokyo. I hope the GoPro company has the focus and resources to evolve to even a better visionary 360 camera.

[@360vroomers]

Hi Sifu Jook 😀 It was great to meet you too. Yes the Fusion has such good hardware. Like you I also hope that they can make it even better, especially the software :) Best regards, Mic

[@alon24288]

so enjoyable and professional review !!! thank you for helping me decide

[@360vroomers]

Thanks alon!!! 😁 i'm glad you found in informative and enjoyable! best regards, mic

[@erikwsince1981]

What a complete review! Awesome work dude!

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Erik! I really appreciate it! 😀 I was debating between keeping it short, or giving viewers everything they need. I'm hoping I struck a reasonable balance. ✌ Best regards, Mic

[@livinthatlife]

thanks dude! I was looking to buy a Hero6 but this helped a lot! - making me lean towards the Fusion:)

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Livin That Life! Fusion and Hero6 are both great, but Fusion is much more versatile for action videos. The only things you need to worry about are: 1. needing a dedicated graphics card for stitching; 2. no external housing yet. But the shots that you can get are amazing and cannot be done with a hero6 or any other ordinary action cam.

[@livinthatlife]

Awesome, indeed. Yeah I outsource my vlog editing so I suppose I could send my editors the raw files first but its just gonna be a lot of data .... good thing they have 100/100mbps here in Bangkok;) - Cheers man keep up the good work 🤙 We may see some 360 vlogs this summer thru Europe;)

[@livinthatlife]

continuing my rant.. I'm also a food vlogger so, I thought it'd be a cool view to have split screen, with the left half of the screen always at my face, and the right side at the food.... as I'm always tryin to catch my facial expresssions and the food at the same time:)

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Riley! I saw your videos (awesome channel btw -- subbed!) and what was clear to me was that a 360 camera is definitely ideal for your videos (even if the final video will be non-360). It's not only more efficient (you can get main video and b-roll from a single video), but it will also give you unique angles. It shouldn't be difficult for your editors - here's a tutorial: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iarZoK2jqJeYnc0 So... either Fusion or if you need something for rugged environments maybe Insta360 One which has an optional hardcase, but the quality will be nowhere as good as Fusion. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKfdfIR-j6ypq9k Best regards, Mic

[@livinthatlife]

awesome thats great to know your opinion on it! In a few months time they should be uploaded:) thanks for subbing back!

[@dream88power]

Great comprehensive review! New subscriber!

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Andrew and I'm honored! 😀 I will continue to do my best for you and other viewers! Best regards, Mic

[@joejacobsen8421]

Great video Mic, you put a lot of work into that.

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Joe! I really appreciate it!!! 😍 best regards, mic

[@help2move]

Excellent video! Congrats

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much help2move! 😍 It was a lot of work and I appreciate your encouragement! Best regards, mic

[@AndreaBaggioSoundVideo360]

Great work, great review as always! Thank you!

[@360vroomers]

Thank you so much Andrea! 😀😀😀 I will continue to do my best for you! Best regards, Mic

[@peterjagt]

Great review Mic! Thanks a lot.

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Peter! 👍 I really appreciate the feedback! 😀 I will continue to do my best! Best regards, Mic

[@napynap]

Great job on this video! Thank You! Only suggestion, your voice audio quality is a bit muddy at times, consider high pass filter around 110hz.

[@360vroomers]

napynap thank you so much! 😀 I really appreciate the feedback (no pun intended) and the suggestion. I will definitely do that! Best regards, mic

[@360vroomers]

Hi napynap! I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your advice. I implemented it in my new video (the stabilization torture tests) -- i hope the audio there is a little better. i've also ordered a new mic. Best regards, Mic

[@jelmarven]

Hello! Awesome video. You mentioned that Fusion don't have an available housing. Would that mean that you shot the wheel mounted and water ride clip without a housing?

[@360vroomers]

Hi Jel! The water ride and sbyke (skateboard + bike) clip - yes I shot them without a housing. Fusion is waterproof so you can use it in wet environments. Since it doesn't have a housing and can get scratched, I recommend buying with a protection plan, and the cheapest one is Amazon's - but you need to buy the plan at the time you buy the Fusion amzn.to/2qE7GLI Amazon's 4-yr plan is a one-time payment of $53, and they also have no deductible. GoPro's protection plan costs $60 PER YEAR and has a $140 deductible. Best regards, Mic

[@jelmarven]

360Rumors.com thanks a lot

[@360vroomers]

Jel To-ong no problem Jel!

[@sesjusz]

Great video Mic, I am wondering if can you recommend any software alternative to make time shifts (like 3:21 on movie) ? Premiere is highly priced and I am looking for alternative. I have installed insta360 studio but it looks like there is no possible to pause movie and rotate camera to different camera view on other frame, probably ininsta 360 studio it is not possible make time shift :/

[@360vroomers]

Thanks buddy! Yes you're right Insta360 Studio cannot do that. Time shift can be done on any 360 video editor that supports 'overcapture' style video and keyframing and can insert frames, such as Magix Movie Edit Pro Plus 2018 and Cyberlink Powerdirector. All you have to do is go to the point where you want to create the time shift effect, pause the video, do a frame grab, split the video, insert the frame grab in the split point to make it look like a freeze frame, then use keyframing to rotate the video. Best regards, Mic

[@sesjusz]

Thank you ! Both application in much better price, that's great. I will compare theirs trial versions and choose one :)

[@sesjusz]

For now I have tested MAGIX Edit Pro Plus 2018, but without GOPRO VR Reframe effect it doesn't looks so good :( Probably it is also not possible to make Tiny Planet from video. Visually movie looks much better in insta 360 Studio with Tiny Planet Effect but of course, there is not possible to freeze an action and move camera view. Now I will try Powerdirector and I hope there 360 movie will look better ;)

[@AlexanderWinklerMr]

Hi Mic, thank you for your fast response and I have ordered the housing for Insta360 ONE. I have bought my Insta360 ONE based on your youtube tutorial and I am very happy with this product. I am extensivelly using GoPro cams for all outdoor activities particularly with my five grandchildren and I am doing it with Insta360 ONE now as well. I am from Europe Czech republic and unluckilly there are no GoPro Fusion on sale yet. I have read the article about suitable accesories for Insta360 ONE and I have tested third party bluetooth trigger sold on Amazon separatelly from selfie stick and it is working with Insta360 ONE fine. After the GoPro Fusion the next 360cam on my radar is the Pisofttech Pilot Era and they are now in the process of evaluating potential testers aplications till the end of March. Are you applying for this testing ? I have decided not to apply due to the fact I am the begginer in 360 area, but you are from my stand point of view the right one. Best regards and stay in touch, Alexander

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Alexander and congratulations on getting the Insta360 One! BTW, have you seen this article I wrote? 360rumors.com/2018/03/insta360-one-stabilization-update-launch-date-flowstate.html I can't say anything about it, except I highly recommend you wait until March 20 before buying any other camera. Yes Pisofttech will send me a review copy. I will make sure to test the Pilot against the Fusion, Insta360 Pro and other cameras! Best regards, Mic

[@AlexanderWinklerMr]

Hi Mic, Thank you for the link about the stabilization upgrade and I will be looking forward to your evaluation of Pisoftech. Have a nice day Alexander

[@rougegan]

Hi Mic, Thanks for this so detailed review! I personally feel that the Gopro Fusion’s workflow is a little too complicate for consumer users as I am...

[@360vroomers]

Ruggero Todesco thank you very much Ruggero! 👍 I hear your concern and i will work on a simplified tutorial! Thanks again for your support! 😀 Best regards, mic

[@ReverseCycoIogy]

Thanks. I’m still getting the insta360 one. I was wondering are you using a 3 way grip attached to the chest mount? Disney strict with selfie sticks but I wonder if that 3 way GoPro stick is ok to bring. Thank you.

[@360vroomers]

Hi Reverse. I used a chest mount and extension arm. See here: 360rumors.com/2018/03/disneylands-selfie-stick-ban-workarounds-360-cameras.html best regards, Mic

[@ReverseCycoIogy]

360Rumors.com thanks Mic, awesome article and the “narwhal” mount was what I was looking for, now I know. Also my face is boog boog sarado ugly, so I want to place a stick from my backpack so the video/picture is third person view. And your article talks about 3 person view extension backpacks too, thanks.

[@360vroomers]

Lol kita mo ba yung ngipin kong dilaw at parang kabayo? Lol. Anyway here's a new mount I'm testing right now 360rumors.com/2018/04/seldi.html and for 3rd person view, also also check out sail video system 360rumors.com/2018/02/sail-video-system-review-hands-free-third-person-view-360-camera.html

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

For the people that own a fusion i have the following advice. If you need the fusion the next day then I advise you to charge the battery and get it out of the device before going to bed. It has happened to me that the fusion turned on by itself during the night. This drained the battery. Its also good to buy more battery's and a standalone charger.

[@giletgen5488]

Hi @360rumors how can i save my 360 photos from gopro fusion? Any tips? Thanks! So far you have the best review for GoPro Fusion! 👍🏼😊

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Grace! When you take a photo, it will be unstitched. You can stitch it with the mobile app or the desktop app. The stitching on the desktop app will have better quality. Copy the contents of both memory cards into your hard drive into a particular directory. From Fusion Studio, click on Add Media and select that directory. Then click on that photo and click add to render queue. Then go to the render tab and click render all. Best regards, mic

[@lindgrenfamily]

excellent review, thanks

[@360vroomers]

Thank you so much Hans! 😀 I really appreciate it! Best regards, Mic

[@sammydanko5044]

What accessory/pole are you using at 2:44? I see u have the chest mount right. I wanna bring my Fusion to a waterpark and wanna get the most use out of it as possible. Thanks alot.

[@360vroomers]

Hi Sammy. For that scene I used the chest mount, and an extension arm, similar to the longest piece here amzn.to/2Yik8nd There's another mount called Seldi that is more stable, but is not being sold anymore.

[@sammydanko5044]

360Rumors Thanks a lot, I will order this one on Amazon, I thought the extension arm had to be straight so the stick could be cancelled out. Sorry I don’t know much about extension arms.

[@360vroomers]

it is better if the extension arm is straight. if you can find a straight one with similar length, it can be invisible. :D

[@lpadron13]

You sold me on the Fusion! I bought one yesterday at $100 dollars off it was difficult not to. Two questions if I may: how necessary are the remote and the Fusion Grip? Are there problems using other selfie sticks/tripods? Thanks for the great work!

[@360vroomers]

wow congrats! you got a great deal! The remote is not really so necessary. I use the voice command most of the time. For the Fusion grip, it's included in the package :D Yes you can use other selfie sticks too. For the ones that have a 1/4-20 tripod tip, you'll need a gopro to 1/4-20 converter (available on amazon and elsewhere). have fun with your fusion! p.s. just to confirm, you do have a dedicated graphics card? (you need it for stitching at full resolution on desktop)

[@lpadron13]

Yup. I've an Inspiron 7567 with the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050Ti 4GB graphics card. What led to my interest in 360 photography/video was the Gear 360 and recently, the purchase of an Oculus Rift. From what I understand the 7567 met the recommended minimum for both and it was affordable. One last question, and no rush to answer; I know you're swamped with requests and work. How good do Fusion and Madventure photos and video look when viewing with Oculus and other VR? Thanks!

[@360vroomers]

Hey buddy! I think Fusion and Madventure both look good, although Fusion looks better. BTW check out the new Insta360 Moment for viewing crystal view! (yes it's compatible with standard 360 videos from any camera, not just insta360)

[@lpadron13]

Will do; thanks for the info/advice AND the terrific work on your 360 rumors and youtube channel.

[@360vroomers]

thanks Luis! I'll continue to do my best for you and the rest of the 360 rumors community! :D

[@FrostElement]

Great video. Thanks for sharing

[@AlexanderWinklerMr]

Hi Mic, Great review, I like it very much and GoPro Fusion is my camera candidate for my next buy. Till now I am using Insta360 ONE and I am on the beginning of my tour with 360 cams. Can you give me some info how is the usage of Insta360 CAM housing outside of water influencing the quality of photos and videos, because I am using this cam more for outdoor activities and definitely I would like to protect better the lenses of the cam against damage. Housing is 25% of the total price of the camera and I would like to know if is it worth to buy it for predominantly outdoor activities like skiing, biking, kayaking etc. Thank you in advance for your kind answer and I wish you the success with your future work for your happy viewers which I am belonging to as well :-). Yours sincerely, Alexander

[@360vroomers]

Hi Alexander! Thank you very much for the feedback! Congratulations on getting the Insta360 One! And you are very wise to bring one on your tour! I went to Italy in early 2015 and at that time I didn't have a 360 camera yet. Now I am kicking myself for not having gotten one before my trip! Absolute must-have for trips! About the One's housing, I think it is usable outside of water, although the stitching is a bit less smooth. I will post a sample for you and post a link to this comment. Best regards, Mic

[@sognoa360gradi8]

Thank you , great comparision !

[@360vroomers]

Grazie mille!!! 😀 I will do my best to keep the comparison updated! Thanks again! Ciao! Best regards, Mic

[@markschannel6409]

Another great review Mic! I noticed the scratches on the lens early into this video but thought it might be just a reflections but then OUCH when I saw it get knocked over. Can you do photo time-lapse with Fusion? I think video time-lapse aren't very good specially at night. I also notice that the stitch-line during video gets some strong warping I don't see as strong with other cameras what's your thoughts? Thanks for your hard work even if lots of it was at Disneyland :)

[@360vroomers]

Mark's Channel thank you very much Mark! Yes my fusion fell for real that's why i HIGHLY recommend getting a protection plan. The cheapest protection plan is through amazon. Yes you can do time lapse video, time lapse photo (an intervalometer), or night lapse (same but using long shutter speeds). I hope this helps! Best regards, Mic

[@360vroomers]

Oh I forgot to reply re warping -- yes there's warping, usually when an object is near the camera and at the stitch line. The warping is in a small area, so i think it's not so bad. And other 360 cameras can also get warping when using optical flow. In any case, sometimes, i turn D-Warp off. For example, in the sequence where there are cameras lined up, i turned off d-warp. I also turned off dwarp for the sbyke (scooter + bike) wheel shot. Best regards, Mic

[@markschannel6409]

Considering how sharp the rest of the image is some warping is excusable. When originally released I felt the Yi had the better video image but after the updates Fusion looks great.

[@theguimbardist9114]

You aee doing it right! Nice channel, great vidéos 😎👍

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Guimbardist! I appreciate the encouragement. Happy Holidays!

[@SupaaManix]

From the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you for this detailed review, but the link for the footage sample don't work...

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much Supaaman! I'm sorry about the download link - I've now updated it. It should work now. Here drive.google.com/open?id=1L5wT4gNIB-EqqgFGOGBQ_HGxZU1rkqQt Thank you for letting me know it stopped working :D Best regards, Mic

[@Scrazp]

What about streaming? Is the fusion capable of stream vía OBS?

[@360vroomers]

Hi Miguel. No it is not possible, afaik. Best regards, Mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Is it normal that regular photo's made with the fusion are less sharp than by example photo's made with my Samsung s8 smartphone and phantom 4 pro (drone)? I can imagine that pictures made with a 360 camera are less sharp.

[@360vroomers]

Chris71319 hi Chris. Yes that's right. If you view objects at the same viewing size then the one shot with the longest lens will generally look sharper (in this case, your phone). Since the fusion covers the widest view, it is less sharp. But it covers more compared to your phone or drone. So a tradeoff between detail vs fov. Best regards, Mic

[@OliverGeistbeck]

Hi Mic, very smooth moves - reminded me of the days long gone when I used to practise Shorinji Kempo myself😁... Anyway, regardles of the price, which cam would you choose: gopro Fusion or Rylo? Best regards

[@360vroomers]

Thanks hooray! If price was not a factor, I would get Fusion. The only exception is if you need the absolute best stabilization, for example you want to mount it on a dog harness (Rylo stabilization is noticeably better than Fusion). Osss!!! Best regards, Mic

[@Salamapaja]

Awesome review. I'm so close to go for the fusion. One thing, I plan to shoot a lot in low light here in Finland during winter. Would you recommend the fusion or another one? I'll keep looking for low light reviews, maybe I missed it.

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Thomas! For low light, Fusion performs very well. The best among consumer 360 cameras at the moment. Here is a low light sample (please view the part where the car enters the tunnel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/oH-9YqyYibKUmJY I hope that helps! Best regards, Mic

[@Salamapaja]

Thanks so much, Mic!

[@360vroomers]

@@Salamapaja you're welcome! Also, i just want to confirm you do have a dedicated GPU? If not, your desktop might not be able to stitch fusion videos

[@spacEXCat]

Thanks for that attractive review. What tall monopod+base You can recommend?

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much spacEXCat! Check out the Promaster LS-CT amzn.to/2GoDFqQ ! Great build quality, independently adjusting legs. If it's too thick, you can also go with the Manfrotto Nanopole, which has a thinner build amzn.to/2FPTf0E And please stay tuned... I've been working on a video that I think you will be interested in! :D Best regards, Mic

[@360vr-austria3]

awesome review!!! Agree 100%. May I asked what dolly you used in that aquarium shot?

[@360vroomers]

Thanks buddy! This is the dolly i used amzn.to/2HZ8MbQ But there's a newer version with a remote control. With the remote, you can not only change direction remotely but also change the speed. I would totally get the new model instead: amzn.to/2DPmTOy Best regards, Mic

[@360vr-austria3]

360Rumors.com awesome Mic, thanks!!!

[@360vroomers]

Thanks buddy! Actually i ended up buying it as well! It's much better than the old one. With the remote i can start, stop, change direction. The downside is that the remote battery was not included (CR2025 or CR2032). Another issue is that the speed is almost constant so it's almost the same speed. But bottom line is that it works much better. Best regards, Mic

[@360vr-austria3]

Thanks, Mic - my only problem is: I´m in Austria, and buying from amazon.com would give me quite some shipping charges. Couldn´t find it elsewhere. However, I have actually built a big dolly for my insta360 pro which I´ll probably use more than the fusion. Talking about insta360 Pro: I´ve just uploaded a new video to our other channel, I stitched it with the insta360Stitcher, but it isn´t really a great stitch. I´m not yet ready to try mistika VR - but from your experience: do you think it could do a much better job? Here is the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKutdZatntx3i6M the problem is the horizon and the rocks 180° from the start view that show some weird ghosting.

[@Emuspaul]

I want to know how much of a problem is there with scratching the lenses? My Insta360 One lenses were scuffed landing with drone; and (with $95 shipping), cost as much to repair as for cost of buying a new camera!

[@360vroomers]

Hi Paul. Yes scratching is a possibility! That's why I recommend buying from Amazon -- because they have the most affordable protection plan, with zero deductible. amzn.to/2FzFqjP Best regards, Mic

[@LoftyEscapes]

Very comprehensive review! Thanks for that. I bit the bullet and purchased the Fusion 2 weeks ago. I have had a single issue with it when after the first charge the battery completely drained over night while off. Since then it hasn't happen. Today, GoPro released a new update which is supposed to fix some battery and charging issues.....also some app connection issues. I only tried it for photos, to create a real estate tour. There is a lot of noise in the JPG. I enabled the RAW mode and tried to convert to DNG using Adobe Converter. For some reasons, when i import them into Mistika VR evaluation version the image gets flipped. Do you have any experience with this process? I don't want to spend money on Mistika VR before I know for sure it will properly work. What would be the workflow to handle the RAW files? (Mistika VR seems expensive) I would like to achieve better results than JPG for my real estate shots. BTW, my name is also MIC! All the best.

[@360vroomers]

hello mic! 😁 Congratulations on getting the Fusion! And thanks for letting me know about the app update! About the battery draining while off, was the camera connected to a PC? Also, is it possible that your phone connected to the Fusion wirelessly? Re photos, yes JPG has a lot of noise in the default settings. You need to use protune to decrease the iso. For real estate, i would use 100. Even 400 can be a bit noisy in the shadows. Yes my raw photos flipped horizontally as well. I tried to let people know this by mentioning this in the video. For stitching raw, another alternative is ptgui. ptgui 11 beta has a preset for fusion, although personally i prefer the results of mistika. I haven't tried autopano pro or autopano giga yet. Best regards, Mic

[@LoftyEscapes]

Thanks a lot for the ISO tip....still learning. No, I completely shut off the fusion (battery at 75%) and in the morning it was completely dead....it hasn't happened since then. Any other options other than Adobe Converter to convert to DNG? Lowering the ISO didn't do much. I would really like to see how much better using DNG files is.

[@360vroomers]

Hi Adrian. You can open the raw GPR files in Lightroom or Photoshop directly then save as DNG. The DNG can be stitched in mistika or ptgui. I have sample unstitched files here including raw in GPR format drive.google.com/open?id=1L5wT4gNIB-EqqgFGOGBQ_HGxZU1rkqQt Best regards, Mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Ben had the same problem with the fusion going on by itself during the night. The battery was drained in the morning.

[@video-newengland6374]

What would be a good work flow for using Fusion to shoot Google Street View? It doesn't seem to embed GPS data in its 360 images even though there is an option to turn this feature on in the settings.

[@360vroomers]

Hi Video NewEngland! Great question and good observation. There is no easy way to do it. You'd have to download and stitch the photo on desktop with fusion studio. Then copy the stitched file to your phone. From there you can upload via the street view app but you would have to add the location manually. If your goal is to post on gsv, i think a better camera would be the mi sphere which has a gps option if you shoot with a phone, or theta v. Mi Sphere: 360rumors.com/2018/02/ultimate-xiaomi-mijia-mi-sphere-360-camera-faq-wiki-and-resource-page.html Theta V: 360rumors.com/2018/02/4k-theta-finally-ricoh-theta-v-specifications-features-samples-accessories.html Best regards, Mic

[@video-newengland6374]

From my desktop, I upload to Google Photos, then use my iPad to bring it into Steet View and post. I have had to buy a second APP called Compass which provides the GPS but you can't copy and paste with the app!!

[@360vroomers]

Uploading to Google Photos is a great idea. For the kinds of photos you take, Is it feasible to group the photos into one location and then find a maps listing for that location? For example, i grouped 2 photos into one location and put the restaurant name www.google.com/maps/contrib/102591418848699184402/place/ChIJbQfHAoK1woAR0a3hGQ6LKWs/@33.8891139,-118.3097589,16z/data=!4m6!1m5!8m4!1e2!2s102591418848699184402!3m1!1e1

[@DYNAMITEKOREAN]

Thanks, so nice video!!

[@360vroomers]

네가티브모션댄스 Negative Motion Dance kamsa hamnida!!! 😀😀😀 thank you for watching and for encouragement! best regards, mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Hey Mic, do you know how the image quality of the insta360 pro compares to a good DSLR camera for example making virtual tours? Are they close?

[@360vroomers]

Hi Chris. No, a decent DSLR with a decent lens, decent panoramic head, and decent technique will produce a higher quality 360 photo than the insta360 Pro. The main advantage of the Pro against a DSLR is that you can capture images instantly, so for example at events, or where there is lots of movement, it will be better (shooting a DSLR pano when there is a lot of movement requires advanced skill). The other advantage of the Pro is 3D 360 photos, which are hard to shoot with a DSLR. Check 360rumors.com by Friday CA time -- I will post a comparison that includes DSLR panos and Insta360 Pro so you can see for yourself and decide if the Insta360 Pro is adequate. Speaking of Insta360 Pro, also check 360rumors.com later this week for exciting announcements! Best regards, Mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

360Rumors.com Thanks Mic, i will check 360rumors.com friday for your comparison. I love all the posibilities of the insta360 pro. Makes a lot of things easier compared to DSLR. Best regards, Chris

[@360vroomers]

Well all i can say is i think you'll like what's in store for us later this week. Here's a teaser: 360rumors.com/2018/05/three-big-announcements-insta360-ivrpa-2018.html Best regards, Mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

360Rumors.com i am very curious. Yesterday i made a 360 panorama straight above my house and garden with the phantom 4 pro drone at arround 300 feet. What do you think about the result? Its a little bit off at the horizon but thats only a very small part of the photo. The phantom 4 pro is maybe not the most portable drone but i love the footage. viewer.hangar.com/360?productId=o0W2J9Br

[@360vroomers]

Looks good Chris! Try other stitching software to see if they can stitch it correctly. Panaroma Studio 3 Pro and Autopano can work well for panoramas that are not shot from the same nodal point. Best regards, Mic

[@BacaBaconi]

Great video like all your other videos. I want to ask you if you suggest me a Fusion camera with which to make videos exclusively for Instagram and Facebook overcapture editing via Iphone or is the Fusion camera too demanding for editing over the phone?

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Baca! Fusion is still good if you have a compatible phone and desktop. Which iphone do you have? I have iphone 7 and the app works with Fusion and Max overcapture. Iphone 6 does not. For desktop, it needs a graphics card or else it will be super slow.

[@BacaBaconi]

360Rumors Thanks for the answer 😊 I have Iphone SE but I'm planning to upgrade to some of the stronger Iphone model soon. Yes, i am familiar with the computer features that are required to work with a fusion camera but i am planning to start working over the phone. Later, I'll move on to more serious PC work

[@360vroomers]

@@BacaBaconi i see! I think Iphone SE will not be able to do overcapture with fusion app. But when you upgrade your phone, fusion (or whichever camera) will be ready for you!

[@BacaBaconi]

360Rumors Nice! I can't wait😊 Thanks!

[@360vroomers]

@@BacaBaconi l look forward to seeing your shots!

[@edwardcolintube]

Amazing video review 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@360vroomers]

Thank you so much Eduardo! 😀 I appreciate the encouragement!!! ✌ Best regards, Mic

[@edwardcolintube]

It is very difficult to do a review as you do, thanks for making this video so complete and only makes me want more GoPro Fusion

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Eduardo! To be honest, this video was much much harder to make than my other videos. I will do my best to keep improving! Best regards, Mic

[@marcosviascon]

Hello! I am new to the 360 ​​video world but I am a videographer for years, and looking for a 360 camera and I think after seeing their comparisons with different cameras and the last one once I go to buy the GoPro Fusion, I want to record in darks conditions especially because I'm a musician, in the video that works in ISO and in Mode you recorded the sequence of the pirate ship at night? And another question🤗my Mac is a2,5 GHz Intel Core i7 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2048 MB. 2015 Intel Iris Pro 1536 MBs , there a problem when bouncing video whit de GoPro Fusion using the Fusion video program i also use a Final cut pro ? Thank you! I am subscribed to your channel and your website, I learned a lot and I helped you a lot to be a good 360 camera according to your needs.

[@360vroomers]

hi pulpino! thank you very much for watching my video and for subscribing. yes the fusion is excellent. for the pirate ship video, i believe i was in standard video mode, using auto settings. for your PC, i think it should work. but to be sure, pls download my sample fusion files so you can try to stitch them with fusion studio: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1L5wT4gNIB-EqqgFGOGBQ_HGxZU1rkqQt Also you may be interested in the new insta360 one x: bit.ly/onexpage

[@marcosviascon]

Great, thank you very much!, if I have seen the version of iNSTA ONE X, I have the Insta one the application is amazing but I think it will give a more cinematic style to Fusion

[@marcosviascon]

Can I use the file you sent me in the Fusion go pro for IOS application?

[@360vroomers]

Pulpiño Viascón you can try but i think the ios app needs the fusion camera

[@ShahriarAzadEvan]

Great video . Can you help me to buy one in low price like 300$ it is my budget . And can I get it in Bangladesh ?

[@360vroomers]

Hi MSA Evan. There are some companies that let you buy stuff in the US and then they will mail it to Bangladesh. Good luck!

[@ShahriarAzadEvan]

@@360vroomers Can you please tell me about one website ?

[@360vroomers]

@@ShahriarAzadEvan i saw myus dot com not sure if it is legit but that is a starting point

[@Epyeon]

Do you think it’s safe to buy a Insta360 One now? Or do you think there’s a newer updated model coming out soon?

[@360vroomers]

hi Epyeon. I think there might be a new model later this year, but I don't know when. They haven't told me. It is just a guess.

[@Epyeon]

360Rumors.com thanks for the heads up! I was just wondering because they have a deal on right now 20% off + free selfie stick and bullet time handle. I just don’t want to be sucked into a promotion right before a new product comes out.

[@360vroomers]

True but if you are going on a vacation somewhere and you don't bring a 360 camera, then you would miss that opportunity. :) And all the photos and videos, that you could have captured if you had a 360 camera :)

[@Epyeon]

360Rumors.com That was one of the best aspects of your reviews that I loved. You mentioned the cost you paid being behind a camera, instead of being in the moment with your family. That was the best selling point for me.

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Epyeon! Yes I think that's why a 360 camera is the ideal personal camera especially if you have family.

[@sammydanko5044]

Got this one for $300 at Best Buy in the beginning of the summer, Question, What setting do I export in primere for the highest quality possible on youtube? Thanks in Advance

[@360vroomers]

Congrats Sammy! You got a great deal! To get the best quality, select H.264, and choose adaptive high bitrate. let me know how you like it!

[@sammydanko5044]

@@360vroomers Great, Thanks, I was watching Ben Claremont's videos and he said to export in H.265 lol, so Im going to try both.

[@360vroomers]

H.265 is ok too. The important thing is the bitrate has to be high enough. if you choose h.264, you can select adaptive high bitrate. if you choose h.265 there is no option like that so you just have to estimate around 50% to 66% of the h.264 adaptive high bitrate. i hope that makes sense

[@tonyhenrich6766]

Nice review. Your voice wasn't very clear and sounded a bit muffled. Maybe a better mic is in order.

[@360vroomers]

Thank you so much Tony! I really appreciate your feedback -- it helps me improve! And btw other viewers said the same thing. It's strange because Ben uses the same mic and his voice sounds fine. Anyway I ordered a new microphone so I hope it works better. I'll keep searching for a better solution. Best regards, Mic

[@selwynleacock6601]

I want to buy a used 360 camera. The choice a gopro fusion or the xiaomi mi sphere but I want to be able to edit the photos and videos in an nice easy app like Reshoot or Theta + . Which one would you suggest? Am shooting for fun and social media 😊

[@360vroomers]

Hi Selwyn! If you want a nice app, then i recommend insta360 one x2 or one r. Another good option is qoocam fun if you have android (it can only be used with a phone).

[@selwynleacock6601]

@@360vroomers thank you. I am on android. I will check your channel for the reviews on the qoocam fun.

[@360vroomers]

@@selwynleacock6601 thanks i havent posted a review of qoocam fun yet but if you want a low cost 360 camera, it is the best one. The disadvantage is that it only works when attached to a phone. So for example it is not recommended for action sports. It is great for vlogging and social media.

[@selwynleacock6601]

@@360vroomers ah great thank you for that information 😊

[@360vroomers]

@@selwynleacock6601 let me know how you like it! Qoocam fun will also have 360 video call feature soon!

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Hello Mic, i edited a video made by the fusion in adobe premiere. How can i export it without losing quality. The vid made with the fusion and fusion studio is arround 7 gb and according to adobe premiere its arround 2 gb after rendering. I cant find the way to export in the same file size. I have chosen a lot of file options and tried a lot of different settings. Regards, Chris

[@360vroomers]

Hi Chris! I personally wouldn't be too worried about that. If you want a large export size, you can export to avi uncompressed :) (jk ... don't try that...)

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Thanks Mic, I was under the impression that a lot of loss of quality occurs during compression.

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Avi uncompressed doesnt work with 5120 2560 (2:1). I dont want compressed footage. It sucks.

[@360vroomers]

OK I assume that you've tried increasing the bitrate, checking the checkboxes like maximum quality, etc. And have you tried exporting prores? It's supposed to be 'visually lossless'.

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

360Rumors.com yes, i tried that have an estimated smaller file and did also take too long. I cancelled the rendering process and for now i am using KZbin and Facebook formats. I dont have a lot of devices to watch 5.2k on. Thanks for the help.

[@stiversfamily]

First off I love your videos but have to disagree with you on one major item on your review. This is not a consumer camera. The workflow to get the same views/outcomes that you get with a Rylo or Insta360 is much more difficult and more expensive since you have to use Premiere. I am holding out hope GoPro will be able to deliver the same editing in the gopro app and fusion desktop software in future updates.

[@360vroomers]

Stivers Family thank you very much! As for editing, you can do the same overcapture effects with insta360 studio which is totally free. You just need to export in 4k h264 😀 (don't worry - it will still be very detailed). In the video, there's a sequence where the camera moves into lined up 360 cameras. That sequence was shot on Fusion and then converted to flat video on Insta360 Studio. You can also use magix movie or powerdirector. Here is my tutorial kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6HJq3Wgf72Dmsk&index=5&list=PLtGqGHDrZeFikWZem9r89pSLMQfQDoryx Thanks again! Best regards, Mic

[@z352kdaf8324]

You don't have to use "Adobe PREMIERE". You can export to 4k 360 and use Pinnacle Studio Pro 21 for "overcapture"..

[@360vroomers]

yes for sure, pinnacle studio seems like it might work too although i haven't tried it since they don't have a trial version. i asked them if i could try it to review it, and they just ignored me. fortunately, magix was happy to work with me and even put my tutorial video on intel's webpage. 😁

[@z352kdaf8324]

Followup - Slightly disappointed with PSP21 in combining 360 clips together - I stitched my GP Fusion 360 in GPF Studio, then I imported into PSP21 - which either 1) created a line where the edges are, and created big black swirls where the GPF Studio has small swirls. If I told it was 360 video - it then smudged the edges together, and smudged the big swirls at the top and bottom all together. I opted for the line.

[@360vroomers]

Sometimes, some video players will have issues in playback even though no issues actually exist. For example, in Google Photos , if you play 360 videos, the nadir and zenith look like swirls even though the exact same file plays correctly on youtube. In that regard, after editing in Pinnacle, did you try uploading to youtube, and if so, did you see swirls? In any case, I don't see swirls in Premiere or Magix. I do see lines occasionally if I'm creating a montage of videos of two different resolutions. I think it's because when one video was resized to match the size of the other, the resizing factor wasn't an integer, and so the rounding error created an imperfect ratio (rather than a 2:1 ratio). Are you editing 5.2k video in a 4k project in Pinnacle? If so, maybe you can instead stitch the video as 4K and edit in Pinnacle as 4K. Best regards, Mic

[@amanieux]

can you give a link to your webpage interactive comparison tool between fusion and insta360pro ? thanks edit : found it : 360rumors.com/360-camera-comparison-tool#video but lighting is not the same so it is kind of useless for image comparison.

[@360vroomers]

Hi amanieux! Yes the lighting conditions must be the same so you need to pick the samples from the SAME DATE. I've relabeled them to make them easier to see. For insta360 pro, please look at GoPro Fusion 3/5/18 and compare with GoPro Fusion 3/5/18 COMPARISON - Insta360 Pro sample. See here 360rumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/fusion-comparison-playlist-2-1024x838.jpg Best regards, Mic

[@Tinyplanetco]

Absolutely Brilliant , as always. Great work Mic! Started a new 360° channel myself, It'd be an honor to have you as a subscriber. Cheers from Berlin!

[@360vroomers]

Thank you very much and congrats on launching your new 360 channel! Subscribed! 😀 Looking forward to seeing more from you! Best regards, Mic

[@Emmanuel_Tuts-Schiemsky]

music is too loud .....in the beginning.....

[@360vroomers]

Thank you so much Emamanuel! I appreciate the feedback (no pun intended). I just got carried away because I paid for the music so I was trying to enjoy it hahaha Anyway for my next videos, I'll make sure the music is not too loud. Thanks again! Best regards, Mic

[@Emmanuel_Tuts-Schiemsky]

360Rumors.com it was an impulsive reaction......you were giving usefull info but it was not in balance with the music.....any way ,I like your channel and all this info.......I bought the xiaomi sphere......great photo camera for the price .......www.flickr.com/photos/emmanueltutsschiemsky/26862147218/in/dateposted-public/ take care......

[@360vroomers]

Emmanuel Tuts-Schiemsky thanks yes xiaomi is great, especially for photo!

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

Hey Mic, which export settings in gopro studio and premiere do you use to get the best video quality for KZbin? Do you render in 4k or 5.2k in fusion and afterwords compress to 4k in premiere with the h264 codec? I am still not sure what works best.

[@360vroomers]

Hi Chris. I export as 5.2k in prores or cineform then import them into premiere. From there, I export in original resolution (4996 x 2496) and publish to youtube. youtube then rounds it down to 4k. If your destination is youtube, dont worry so much about the export settings - youtube compression is the bottleneck. if you go hardcore, you can use ffmpeg. best regards, mic

[@ChristiaanRoest79]

360Rumors.com thanks Mic. I uploaded to KZbin in 5k before. I could select watching the video in 5k. While watching in 5k i noticed the compression. The quality was clearly less than from the file i uploaded to KZbin. Do you use the quicktime or h264/h265 option to export in premiere? Probably quicktime if you use the cineform or prores codec.

[@360vroomers]

From Premiere i export in h264 or h265. i havent compared it with exporting in quicktime if you upload 5760 x 2880 then it will be treated as 5k in youtube. you can upres the fusion to 5760 x 2880 but it doesnt seem to make a difference: 360rumors.com/2018/05/gopro-fusion-details-leaked-specifications-features-price-release-date-revealed.html#6K

[@biggdaddymiller]

Good thing you are here. I cannot remove my files to the system fast enough, I cannot process it beyond 3K without it crashing, I cannot edit without crashing, it goes to finalizing at the end and crashes. I know I have an old MacMini 2012, but this is crazy. I don't want to spend another $800 to $1500 on another computer, and I prefer MAC. I can't even figure out how to pull off the files individually because it doesn't show all the files capable of getting you to the start screen let alone render it.

[@360vroomers]

Michael Miller hi Michael sorry but if you dont have a dedicated gpu then you cant really use the fusion. I know you use mac but fyi a pc that can stitch and edit fusion at fullres would be $400 - 450. It would also be vr ready

[@AndrewCCM]

Just can’t believe I bought one full well thinking they would include the most basic camera functions. REALLY? No way to manually expose, set white balance for video (I know you can for photo in raw), and at least LOCK EXPOSURE! Unbelievable that a camera in this day and age can omit the most basic of all camera functions. SMH. I may be sending mine back. Grrr

[@360vroomers]

Hi Andrew! I understand your frustration. The way I see it, there are workarounds for some of those issues, but there is no substitute for the Fusion's image quality. There's nothing out there that is as good for video, as of May 2018. Best regards, mic

[@timbieber]

Mic, thanks for another amazing vid! You have the best reviews for 360 so keep it up. I have started my live action VR studio off of your advice and reviews so thanks! I'm undecided on fusion given i have been having so much fun and getting better features using the Insta360 One iPhone app. Check out some of the unique mounts and shots i've been getting with One on my instragram; instagram.com/timwbieber. I now own almost all of the cameras you mentioned in this video and almost exclusively reach for the insta360 one. The Pro was pushed to it's limits in a very dark, dusty and wet 15 hour shoot on Sat. in an abandoned glass factory for our first thriller short so i'm looking forward to seeing that footage! Anyway... thanks so much for these reviews... honestly the best on the web so keep it up

[@360vroomers]

Thanks Tim! I checked out your IG and wow that is a nice collection of cameras and mounts! 😀 Feel free to post links to your videos here (that's an invitation i make only to friends! 😁) As for the One, i totally agree, it is much better in terms of usability. The only reason i would recommend Fusion is for the detail and even better dynamic range. But sometimes usability is more important. 😀 Best regards, Mic

[@timbieber]

appreciated it friend :) once i have more of the content in from my team around the world and a few of the scripted/unscripted projects complete in the next 4-6 weeks i'll be sure to share!! thanks... exciting times with this new game changing production gear!!!

[@360vroomers]

Yes and to think we are just barely scratching the surface...! 😮

[@ConsultingjoeOnline]

This review is outdated. The GoPro Fusion is terrible. All because Fusion Studio is garbage and most of your videos will fail to be stitched in the software. I believe a class action lawsuit is in order here. This camera is basically a brick without working software. In Windows 10 you have to rename a DLL file just to get it to open at all. On Mac it doesn't even launch!