What are the best screws for MDF edge grain? (part 1 of 2)

A few weeks ago I tested a bunch of screws in the face grain of MDF. Today we're looking at the difference it makes screwing in to the edge grain of MDF. I'm testing a whole bunch of screws ranging from standard TurboGold through to specialist screws such as Spax MDF screws and Confirmat screws. As per usual, this test is just a bit of fun - always work off the manufacturer's recommended specs for anything important. Let's see how they do!
Part 2 of this test: • What are the best scre...
MDF Face Grain Screw Test: • What are the best scre...
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#MDF #Screws #TestTuesday

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

You are to be congratulated for doing all this work, it is really valuable information. Blows away a lot of myths! Thank you!

[@nonnith]

I would really like to see the same test with pilot holes and get a comparison. Big fan of #TestTuesday. I hear so many theories and it's actually nice to have some measurements to give you an idea whether or not you are barking up the wrong tree with picking one product or the other.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers! 👍

[@JimAckroyd]

I built a hutch above our white goods in the conservatory, consisting of a worktop; three cabinets above and a broom cupboard at one side. All in MDF. I put three hinges on each of the cabinet doors and five hinges on the broom cupboard door. I piloted all the screw holes and put a drop of wood glue in each hole (end grain). We haven't had any problems since fitting them, with constant use over twelve months. We are careful not to put any weight on the doors.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Great stuff - the wood glue in the holes defo helps I think. Another thing to test! 👍

[@nathan87]

I tried plotting the embedded area (length*circumference) vs the peak load for these results - almost a perfect straight line!

[@DeanneMariaCreates]

My father gave me a great tip for when putting a screw into edge grain and this tip reigns true, especially when dealing with MDF: always place your screws 25mm in to help prevent splitting and pilot hole it to a depth of 4mm. If mdf is brittle, add some glue after making pilot hole and allow to dry. Once dry, place your screw into pilot hole and no more splitting.

[@maysampkh4242]

sorry i had not seen part 2....you have done a great job bro... thanks a lot.

[@chevyimp5857]

I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this series..super informative... Thaks

[@GosforthHandyman]

Thank you! 👍

[@Lyndalewinder]

Andy - I just can't believe you devoted so much of your precious time to helping us understand the important differences between these types of screws. Thanks a lot. I find these videos very entertaining. Keep them coming!

[@Z00Maddict]

Why is this just so damn interesting?

[@RichCurtis-661]

Very informative. Thanks for posting!

[@DeanneMariaCreates]

Love these tests Andy, brilliant stress indicators x.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Thank you Deanne! 👍😀

[@markbryan9989]

You may want to counter sink when you do the pilot holes. It looks like the splits occurred when the taper reached the MDF. Other than that, I like the Spax but you are right, they are expensive!

[@StamosTee]

Love these videos!!! Really useful and interesting tests. Keep up the good work and many thanks for sharing.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers! 👍

[@lennytheleopard]

Thanks mate. Great video.

[@vileguile4]

I haven't event finished the video but i long for next week's one! .. right, back to video!

[@GosforthHandyman]

👍👊

[@keithscrafts]

Try a 3.5 x 50. We use them a lot for screwing cabinets together.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Will see if I've got any in stock! 👍

[@orbepa]

I never knew the name of the Confirmat screws - I had some from something I disassembled once. I used to hold my mitre saw to my MDF bench so I can keep doing/undoing them without messing the thread

[@drewnoakes]

They look very similar to screws IKEA uses in a lot of their composite furniture.

[@stevel1475]

Entertaining test. Maybe taking the best Mdf face and end grain screws for another test on a 2×4.

[@stevebignell2303]

Nice one Andy thanks for the video

[@GosforthHandyman]

👍👍👊

[@DeanneMariaCreates]

I pay the extra money for spax specialist drive mdf screws and they have not let me down. Andy love the Texan style music.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Been having fun with the music! 👍😀

[@munkytaint666]

Hooray for Test Tuesday.... FOR SCIENCE!!!

[@GosforthHandyman]

👍👊

[@ghambino1]

I always use drywall but i drill pilot holes first. Never had a problem or split on the mdf

[@pauleacock2100]

another great vid , keep up the good work

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers Paul! 👍

[@bigchang1974]

It would be interesting to see the Confirmat with a slightly bigger pilot hole. I've used 3.5 x45mm T10 cladding screws on the 'end grain' of 9mm MDF....surprisingly effective!!

[@maysampkh4242]

it would be great to have the comparison with the pre-drills and an appropriate pilot hole for each. i believe since for some there were splits without pilot hole in the edge of MDF and in practice and real world we should & do avoid by drilling pilot holes first , the results and comparison would be different. now that you have the equipment ready and all is set up, its great to have it done. Thanks.

[@maysampkh4242]

sorry i had not seen part 2....you have done a great job bro... thanks a lot.

[@chiselit1]

love your work, experience tells me you need to pilot the screws as well. I just wonder if the way you fastened the blocks ( the screws helped reduce delamination ), correlates to the longer screws having greater strength. Just to through into the mix, I don't like to screw into side grain mdf if I can help it, I just glue and brad most of the time. So I would be interested if you could test a glue joints strength in a similar test as a comparison. The holding strength of glue, compared to mechanical fasteners.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup - glue and brad on the list, my main method too. 👍

[@oldschoolengineer58]

if you divide the screw length into the applied load, you will get the load per inserted mm.which might be more meaningful. A good video and i like the simple test rig Well Done

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers - it varies a lot depending on the thread type etc. 👍

[@edleysoares9589]

Great video

[@rickfletcher8389]

How often are you in an application with a pull out on the end grain? A more common application would be driving into the end grain for a shelf, where the screw would be acting in shear. Overloading the shelf would likely cause a split along the “grain” of the MDF. Might be interesting to do a test of this.

[@GosforthHandyman]

On the list - the pull out is the best test to accurately compare loadings between different materials & fixings. 👍

[@fredmeyer3063]

Liked and subscribed. How close together can you space screws along an mdf edge? I'm attaching a crosscut sled fence (mdf). The sled base is baltic birch plywood; the screws will be going up through the plywood (5/8" thick) into the mdf (several layers laminated together, the screws will go up into the edge of the middle laminated mdf piece if that makes sense. Basically screws go through face of the plywood into the edge of mdf.

[@cjhification]

Interested to see how they perform with pilot hole as was told years ago that predrilling in to hardwood always have a stronger result, but with MDF who knows.

[@p90x1011]

Thank you very much!

[@traviss4444]

I always use wurth assy-plus-schauben AW20 drive for at least 20 odd years they have been brilliant

[@garyblake3130]

The screw of choice for me as well, I have tried cheaper, but you get what you pay for. Wurth products are amongst the best I have used.

[@traviss4444]

i agree Garry over 30 odd years a carpenter rare upon rare they snap every 5 mm sizes self counter sink self drilling no cam out good into various metals too

[@GosforthHandyman]

Where do you get them? Is that another different type of bit?? Never used them. 👍

[@traviss4444]

@@GosforthHandyman found this little video on you tube kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHO2ZH2fh7Gph9U I have a rep who comes to site they are great for hard woods the drive is like a torx but better

[@TheDoosh79]

Great test. My question is, what scenario would you need such load capabilities screwing into the end grain of MDF with a single screw? That isn't to say 200+kg isn't impressive!!

[@markrowland5393]

Very interesting. I wonder what results you'd get if you drilled a hole in the edge and used a plastic plug. I suppose it would reduce splitting but there would be less mdf because of the size of the hole for the plug.

[@toddstrope157]

I would think the plug would create splitting on install as it expands when the screw is screwed in.

[@markrowland5393]

@@toddstrope157 Yes, I suspect you're right. Perhaps a better way would be to glue in a 10 or 12mm dowel and then drill a pilot hole in the dowel. Obviously this is all a bit theoretical and academic and not really sensible for normal joinery.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yes, I don't think the MDF would grip the plug very well - interesting to test at some point though! 👍

[@toddstrope157]

Yes, I would suspect screwing into a glued in piloted plug could be stronger. Screwing into a crosswise plug (screw perpendicular to the plug) even stronger. I was wondering about the cam locks used by manufacturers of melamine furniture.

[@stefflus08]

I suppose the Confirmat is meant to be holding something with a clearance fit on the unthreaded shank part. So in your configuration you'd need two pilot holes. It'd be ever so helpful if you let us know the diameters of both thread bottom and unthreaded portions of thd shank so we could play along at home.

[@MrSO625]

The confirmat screw has a special drill the widens the hole for the untreated portion

[@dennisbasford1813]

the unthreaded shank at the head of the screw is used as an alignment dowel

[@MD0MDI]

Still no Riesner Cutters! Just that I really like these and would like to see how they stand up, we don’t shop at B&Q since they stop selling Really Useful Boxes so don’t get most of the ones that you test... thanks as always for the testing, always great vid’s

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers bud! Spax from Wickes and rest from Screwfix. 👍 Will test Reisser at some point. 😀

[@DustyFingersRC]

Interesting stuff. Cheers

[@Pistol_Knight]

love your 'test' vids, but im anal when it comes to screwing into 'end grain' MDF. 1) a drywall screw is exactly what it says, you should use (as you mentioned at the end) a special drywall bit (so as not to break the 'paper' on the plasterboard. IMO you need a thread that is quite wide (too close a thread just splits it on the way in), I NEVER tighten a screw with a 'driver' set to one then tighten by hand (so you can feel any abject pressure) look forward to the next one with pilot holes (better IMO) . you would never use a screw straight into 'end grain' you are normally joining 2 pieces together, for this I pilot the hole the when glueing the joint put some glue in the pilot hole to make sure the glue seeps into any 'splits' that might occur therefore (hopefully making the 'screw tighter') Just my way of doing things. The time it must take to do the tests must be laborious, so hats off to you for bothering

[@webchimp]

That Confirmat screw being fatter than the others is going to build up more sideways pressure on the MDF. With one side of the MDF clamped against your workbench all that pressure went to the free side which is probably where you extra splits came from.

[@satanismybrother]

nice, thanks for doing the experiments - would be good to have a few more readings per screw so you can get an idea of how variable they are. Im also thinking that the grip and tendency to split may be affected by how tightly they're screwed in (probably fairly consistent between your experiments but maybe a power drill on the same max torque would be easier?). Whats clear is a screw does give a really good amount of mechanical strength - in all cases above 50kg per screw which is surely enough for most joinery applications. I built a kitchen cabinet and used dowels and loss tite screws - would be good to know how much the latter grip since they are invisible with a bit of filler! Thanks again for the vid!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup - doing multiple tests off-line. As soon as I do multiple tests of the same screw on a vid people switch off. 😂👍

[@SPUDMACKER]

Thanks Andy! You can't beat a good screw!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Exactly. 👍😂

[@normanboyes4983]

Andy knowing the material as you do, I think you know that you do need to use pilot holes even if the screw is advertised as self drilling so as to avoid this propagation of delayering/splitting.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup - although jury's out as to whether the pilot hole makes the joint stronger or weaker. We shall see! 👍😀

[@kirstenthompson1942]

Hi, I"m hoping you can help with a question - trying to get over the last hurdle of hanging a large mdf picture frame on the wall. I have built a very large (36"x54") picture frame with mdf, which now weighs about 20# with plexi and art. With the frame front face down, the back edge of the frame is the edge side of the mdf strips- 3/4" wide. I "attached" two D-rings to this 3/4 -inch edge, and strung wire (capable of holding 30#) across, but just holding up the frame with the wire ripped the screws of one D-ring out partially through the side/face of the mdf strip. Realizing now that screws were probably not meant for mdf, so they weren't "gripping" it. (In hindsight, perhaps I should have made the frame out of real wood?) Anyway, I landed on your KZbin page, but your analysis is next level for my basic knowledge. Is there a screw you recommend that I could put down into the 3/4" edge to hold D rings across which I could string wire to hang a 20# frame? The face width of the mdf strips that I would be screwing into is 1 1/2 inches.

[@tlangdon12]

Interesting results and good to see your real-time data capture working having heard you describe building it on the Measuringup Pod cast.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers - working a treat. Just need to get quicker editing it! 😂

[@johnthompson3462]

Be interesting to see what happens when all on level field.The bore hole has to be a big advantage

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup - think so! 👍

[@p0wwwww]

Are you andy the tax guy I watch every year !

[@GosforthHandyman]

Ha ha yes!!

[@p0wwwww]

I recognised your voice straight away because that's the only time I have to pay extra attention haha! Now that I'm getting into wood work during the lockdown looks like I'm going to be watching more of you, I thought you only played the drums lol!. Just want to say many thanks for all the thorough explanations dude

[@PhillipBicknell]

OK, but a screw in tension - weakest mode and one to be avoided. Yes, very impressive straight-pull strength, but surely long-term failure is more likely to be flex and relax - moot whether they're directly related. I'll be back for the pilot-holed test, which hopefully includes the repeat tests you mention. Also, do you think that clamping the board before driving the screw would alleviate splitting? I'm thinking of the tip I saw the other day, a nail being driven through wood held by pliers. Hope you enjoyed Boh Rhap as much as I did with my friend the other day!

[@MadLadsAnonymous]

Great explanation! If an MDF project is meant to be transported and thus reassembled multiple times, would you recommend a threaded insert with wood glue, where the insert has similar specs as to the recommended screws in your test? (am a total rookie)

[@chrissekely]

How about using CA glue also? I wonder, if you first pilot holed and countersunk (as previously suggested)...Basically start by doing what gets the best results in your tests, but then squeeze CA glue into the hole before inserting the screw. I imagine this would yield really goodcredults.

[@GosforthHandyman]

CA glue would just sit 'on top' of the hole - unlikely to penetrate down - could put it on the thread of the screw but probably wouldn't make much difference. 👍

[@chrissekely]

@@GosforthHandyman I work as a cabinet maker officially and on the side I try to be a more traditional woodworker. Anyway, my experience with CA glue would suggest otherwise. We use 2p-10 glue from Fast-Cap. It comes in various thicknesses. The thinnest would easily run into a pilot hole.

[@deetle1924]

3/4 MDF is not problem for edge gain. What about 1/2 and 1/4 ?

[@sw1james]

I have not found anyone else who does this kind of testing. I want the strongest screws for melamine edging and I think this test shows me what will hold best. So, thanks for that. One question that may seem foolish, but I am only a beginner at this. I assume a nut and bolt through an angle bracket would be stronger than screws, cam and dowel or pocket hole. Just like to confirm that this is true?

[@GosforthHandyman]

Generally yes, def. A through-bolt will be stronger than just about anything. 👍

[@stephenbrennan7179]

Its not about the screws my bro so the trick is to pre drill it with a slightly large bit then counter sink the head and use regular screws for the edge

[@theartistformallyknownasdi5338]

Most interesting Andy. Ban the Phillips! 😃

[@GosforthHandyman]

Absolutely! 👍😂

[@Griggs1981]

What would u recommend for installing a running for a kitchen bin in a cupboard it's chip wood I think

[@alanmullock381]

My choice of screw borne out?? I need a lie down now!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@GosforthHandyman]

👍👍

[@danikanskywalker2119]

10g drywall laminating screws, pilot hole and countersunk 40mm from the end 👌 Gets great bite, and no splitting

[@bobt2522]

I learn a lot from your test videos. I wonder if the holding strength is related to the cross section area of the screw threads (area at the major diameter minus the area at the minor diameter). I would expect it to be related to the thread volume (area of the screw threads times the thread length).

[@OlcayMsrloglu]

Surely you are right. I used to be a manager a bolt manufacturing company, and it 100% depends on the dia of the bolt (ceteris paribus). So the results of this test should be read as, if you want a better hold, you need to use a thicker screw with a longer length.

[@tag_of_frank]

What is the best middle screw to attache face of MDF to side

[@ksp1278]

Very interesting!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers bud! 👍

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

Hi there, what glue do you use on mdf? thanks in advance

[@chrislogan8283]

hi andy like these test yer doing on the next one could you put the screws in on an angle i always stitch screw if i can just the way i was tought.best wishes from a smog monster

[@GosforthHandyman]

I wouldn't do angled screws for cabinet joints in MDF as it would probably split the board more. Best wishes down south! Worked in Peterlee for a while! 👍😀

[@21thTek]

Excelente, whats the width of the mdf ? Greetings from Mexico

[@hughtattersall7583]

PH heads? Over to the dark side, was it something with the date!

[@animationcreations42]

I suppose it's Tuesday somewhere 😂

[@GosforthHandyman]

Exactly. 👍😂

[@kstewart3657]

Interesting but I'm not sure it's a fair test using a mixture of different length and diameter screws. Would it not be better to use an identical screw across the different types to ensure a proper comparison?

[@GosforthHandyman]

I only chucked the drywalls in since I had some knocking about. Wouldn't buy them specially as I'd never use them. 👍

[@larrybeck4162]

Did any split going in ?

[@rickgreen7643]

I have tried using plasplugs and it still splits

[@davidbritton6121]

ummmm so which screw would someone use for edge of mdf??? i mean great test but ummm i guess im too stupid to see which didnt split it and held up . sorry great technology though but would of loved for u to draw to a "conclusion"

[@sweenep86]

Test 6, i’ll bet it was the straight shank which split it going in.

[@GosforthHandyman]

👍👍

[@JW77]

Can you trying pulling a glued biscuit out of an edge? I wonder if biscuit joints are any better than screws.

[@GosforthHandyman]

A glued joint will always win I think. 👍👊

[@JW77]

@@GosforthHandyman I agree, but I meant screw+glue versus biscuit+glue.

[@animationcreations42]

Id be interested in a price per kg graph for the screws (not trying to skew it in the drywall screws favour or anything!) If they would just put a pozi head on them they'd be perfect 😂

[@GosforthHandyman]

I'd defo hate them less if they were Pozi. 👍😂

[@user_i.d]

Interesting

[@davidletz9123]

Thanks Andy...what does the x-axis on your graph represent?

[@satanismybrother]

Im not Andy, but its time

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yes - just time. 👍

[@neal8548]

hi what depth is MDF board are you using in the test

[@GosforthHandyman]

18mm

[@grahamocarroll9052]

Thanks for that very interesting (for me any way my 18 yr yr old daughter just walked in sighed heavily called me a boring old b##@£!!d and walked out!) I have to pull test a percentage of my fixings at work and you know what there isn't a great deal of difference between my £1200 bit of kit and your DIY rig!

[@GosforthHandyman]

Ha - that's great to know! I'm struggling with torque on the motor-drive which is a bit annoying. Good enough for now though. 😂👍

[@Exiledk]

There is NO GRAIN in MDF.

[@MannyNCF]

Wtf is a kilo

[@nitinpandey39a]

Metric System.

[@SirBenJamin_]

Ummmm ... MDF doesn't have grain. 😯😯😉😉👍👍

[@GosforthHandyman]

Don't start!! 😂😂👍