Reading Target Breaks - Go Shooting Shotgun Coaching Videos - Series 2 #24

[@mikea7942]

As a newbie, shooters would say that i hit the clay at 9:00 or 3:00 etc. So I started to think in those terms as too much lead or not quite enough lead. And, I began to "help" my shooting buddies with the same advice. Now I can see that maybe only one pellet hit the clay but my lead was correct. The pellet spacing can be significant with an IC choke.

[@randallkadish5663]

On your second shot after adjusting your comb the target did break to the right, as it should have. I believe two other targets also broke in the right or left direction that they should have. I think what is confusing is that two of the targets seem to break up when they should have broken down or vice versa. This could be caused by the upward tilt of the clay target and the holes in the pattern. Even if most of the pattern is high, the pattern is not uniform 15 inches from the center where it has holes, so the pellets that hit the tilting targets probably hit them on the top or the bottom. In short, if a pattern is high and to the left and a few pellets near the bottom of the pattern hit the bottom of the tilting-up target, the target will break upward. John Shima told me if often hard to tell if the shotstring is high or low. To minimize pattern holes many elite shooters use a full chokes, and even then we can't make determinations from a few targets. We have to look for a majority, so to speak. If most of my left-angle targets break to the left, then I am obviously shooting a little behind. If most of my targets break downward, I can still conclude that I am shooting a little high. Reading target breaks is what helps elite shooters, including the Dagen V., winner of the HOA at the 2023 Grand, make adjustments.

[@timothybruggeman9332]

Dr. Andrew Jones covers this in his book in great detail. You simply cannot "read" breaks. High speed video testing done by Neil Winston also corroborates this.

[@GoShooting]

Well said!

[@randallkadish5663]

And yet so many elite shooters, Ricky Marshall, Zach Nannini, Phil Kiner, and many others believe a shooter can and should read target breaks. To help them do this they use full chokes. Isn't that why Leo Harrison used a full choke? If you listen to Trap Talk From the Back Fence you will hear other elite shooters talking about reading target breaks. Does that mean every break can be read? I would guess not. What I am looking for is a majority of breaks. Also, if someone smokes a target doesn't that mean they were right on the target? Isn't that reading a break? If someone takes a small piece off a target doesn't that mean the shot string almost missed the target? John Shima, the great skeet shooter, told me that if I cut a target in half it means that my shot was either too high or too low.

[@timothybruggeman9332]

@@randallkadish5663 it depends. "Most" target reads are not accurate based on the high speed video I have seen. Yes, if you smash a target, it means that most probably the center of your pattern was very close to the center of the target. On chips and weak breaks, "where the big chips go" is all dependent on the size of the piece and what direction the center of mass of the piece was traveling at the time. All targets have both translational momentum (which way is the target going) and rotational momentum (that is, it is spinning.) You can be deceived by seeing a large piece go a particular direction. Machines that throw the target with a clockwise spin (as viewed from above) will tend to throw large pieces to the right, as the shooter views them. I encourage you to buy Dr. Jones' book and give it a read.

[@randallkadish5663]

@@timothybruggeman9332 Watch Phil Kiner's DVD. To me, it is strong evidence that breaks can be read. "Reading the manner a target breaks can be a great aid to the shooter. ..." Bob Brister, Shotgunning the Art and Science. If spin made it impossible to read target breaks then, I believe, because hard right-angle targets, for example, spin in the same directions, most breaks would be similar, but they are not. Targets break equally in 4 different ways, the front, the back, the top, or the bottom. So many elite shooters use full chokes so they can read their target breaks and get instant feedback. These shooters must have learned something from all the thousands and thousands of targets they have broken. Finally, if Neil Winston's findings are as infallible as some claim, they wouldn't feel the need to personally, and rather viciously, attack folks who are skeptical of Neil's findings. (I am sure you know what I am referring to.) If I chip the bottom of the target am I to assume that, because I can't read breaks, I might have been right on the target? If I smoke a target am I to assume also I may have really been mostly in front or behind the target? In the history of science, well-meaning scientists have got things wrong, even Albert Einstein. None of us are infallible, even Neil Winston, though I do have great respect for his passion and commitment to trap shooting. And certainly, all of us are entitled to our opinions. I am not saying without a doubt mine are correct. What I am saying, is that for now, based on my research and my own experience, I believe most, though not all, targets can be read if a shooter is using a tight choke. My two cents.

[@randallkadish5663]

As for clockwise spinning targets: Harlan Campbell always tries to break his targets to the inside. This would be impossible if Dr. Jones was correct.

[@davedunn7759]

Good video. There are several old timers at my club that enjoy offering up unsolicited “advice” based on the break. 🙄

[@GoShooting]

Boom!

[@ashy1423]

Thanks for this video. Stay well Ash 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@GoShooting]

Thanks, you too!

[@yaudtube]

Yes ! - thanks! It states "Comb right - moves pattern to right; Comb left - moves pattern to left". does it apply to both right and left handed shooters?

[@GoShooting]

Yes it does!

[@yaudtube]

@@GoShooting thanks!

[@randallkadish5663]

I just took a clinic with Nora Ross. She said she can absolutely read target breaks and that, "Neil Winston is dead wrong." Next time use a full choke.

[@GoShooting]

Everyone has an opinion. Nora is entitled to hers. I will stick with Neil on this one.

[@AGENT-tq1nm]

I think this happens due to the clay target spinning at high speed... When its thrown by machine it spins and moves at the angle... And after shooting it, chances are it would still spin and we won't be able to notice the real point of impact because of continuous movement, spin of the target as well as new factor of pellet hitting and knocking off the target... I am just guessing sir ! I may be wrong but it was worth a try ... Thanks for great video 📸

[@alland2987]

I am waiting.

[@samireljaouhari7004]

Very good video and explications thanks so much

[@GoShooting]

Glad it was helpful!

[@timeverett7828]

You are correct, this video will Irritate alot of people. The Myth Of target breakage reading has been perpetuated for decades. If the shooter is doing correct movements from the stand/position that they are shooting from, it's actually a shot string that contacts the target.

[@GoShooting]

There was certainly not enough definitive evidence to convince me Tim.

[@timeverett7828]

@@GoShooting Burrard, Brister and Milton studies of shot string are reasonably conclusive but, variables do exist.

[@jdmoore507]

Your video series is the most comprehensive and informative out there. Just excellent! I'm shooting a 1987 Winchester American Flyer Live Bird Combo. Two sets of barrels. One is 28" and the other is 29 1/2" On each the upper barrel is bored extra full and the lower Winchoke. Why extra full? Should I consider having the upper barrel rebored for Winchoke? That extra full choke is soooo tight!

[@timeverett7828]

If you don't intend on shooting live birds Then it would be worthwhile. Extra full Recommended for distances inexcess of 50 yrds.

[@GoShooting]

I would play around with different shot shells before I opened it up too much. You may regret opening the choke too much

[@randallkadish5663]

Did you use a full choke?

[@xandercage6642]

Mark dijiste 20% abajo y 80 % arriba? Con que Choke hiciste el disparo?

[@GoShooting]

Si, eso es correcto. 80/20 El disparo se tomó con un estrangulador modificado mejorado (3/4)

[@78tag]

I don't know about the tendency of the pattern (or where you think you shot) but when a target breaks to the right, you have hit it on the left - what is confusing about that ? What ever you want to take away form that is up to you....there is nothing absolute about any of this. Shooting clays is as much an art as it is a discipline.

[@ernestc9586]

.which type of gun are you shooting.

[@GoShooting]

Beretta DT 11 ACS

[@Procharged32]

Its no good when your confused, what are we mere mortals to think.

[@GoShooting]

lol I think I would need to do a more comprehensive test to be convinced.

[@treos17]

mmmmm, nah, you can tell on crossers