GPS vs HD cameras - it's all about RF noise

Caddx Tarsier 4K bit.ly/2kzIHdy
RTL-SDR bit.ly/2Ms2wgU
You might believe it or not (today I will prove it, however) that HD cameras, especially cheap ones, can be responsible for GPS problems on your drones and model airplanes. The majority of HD cameras (RunCam Split, Runcam Split Mini, Foxeer Mix, Caddx Tarsier) generate RF noise on different frequencies. Some of them on 433MHz, some on 900MHz, but most of them also at around 1GHz. Just where one of the frequencies used by GPS signal sits. As a result, many GPS modules are reported to have problems getting a fix when the HD camera is running.

[@Aarons14bugs]

The caddx Tarsier ALMOST had me stumped. After about a day and a half of tinkering around found that simply turning off the tarsier instantly gave me GPS signal.

[@lostjohnny9000]

I think I've seen this issue in person. The Runcam Split used to come with a fully grounded top shield / SD Card latch but the version 3 only comes with the latch. The latch looks the same as the Tarsier's

[@shawnzfpv]

Is there a STL or link to that enclosure for the Tarsier? How much separation in needed to negate the interference? Is it the camera itself, or the board that is noisey?

[@FPVUniversity]

I will post it on Thingiverse when it's ready. It's prototype for MiniDrak

[@TMacFPV]

Great experiment Pawel! The Tarsier has been very "noisy" for me. I've also found not just the HD camera, but various other components of flight stack as well. There's a few ways around this interference issue

[@FPV420.]

Hi Pawel. After purchasing Caddx Orca I found out my Tyro (running on Arducopter) stopped arming due to high HDOP :) Remove the camera and the issue is gone. I tried shielding the camera and also power the copter without a camera first. Surely it gets the necessary sats but as soon as I put the camera back I get GPS glitch error.

[@Aarons14bugs]

I replaced a monster mini with an old board camera in my ar mini and after my gps was picking up about half the amount of satellites. I switched to a caddx ratel and everything was fine again. The gps was never relocated, so I can deduce the difference was in the camera RF noise. Thanks for making the experiment for us, you always have something interesting to watch. 👍

[@sas2dj]

Same problem with Flysky Fli14 receivers, I tried 2 new ones and had failsafes at 100 meters with both. Then tried one which I flew all of last summer and that also fail safed twice around 100 meters twice. It has to be the Tarsier causing this. So apparantly it also affects 2.4 Ghz

[@evmoFPV]

I've had this happen when using the smaller versions of GPS modules like the BN 180. I couldn't move it far enough away from the Session 5 to get and hold a reliable lock. Now I only use the BN880. It's bigger and heavier but seems to be pretty much immune to RF noise from the Session and Hero7 Black.

[@Eugenue]

Could you please suggest used device for RF scan?

[@kool-k-kel]

Thx Pawel... Been rippin hair out...7 inch quad build...flies great..few months later...install runcam split 3 then GPS gets 5 sats.. then none... Thx for your findings

[@WhirlyBloke]

I discovered a similar problem with the eBeeX. If you use very fast SD cards in the RedEdge camera, the GPS takes ages or refuses to lock. If you use slower spec cards it's fine. It's a balance cos the RedEdge needs fast cards. I did some very crude measurements and came to the conclusion it was down to the high frequency noise generated by fast rising and falling data edges. Nice work.

[@relaxvideo3d]

Sady, new Hawkeye Thumb 4k also kills all my Mini3 gps. (yes, i like to use on that). Doesnt matter if i power on mini3 first, get 20+sats, as soon as i power on thumb, i see 0 gps :( :(

[@FPVUniversity]

Yeah, that's the issue indeed

[@pierrefpv]

You can use copper or aluminium sheet or tape to create shielding around your camera.

[@СергейЦыпанов-э4о]

But wait, as far as I understand the analog equipment like VTX and HD cameras produce kind of analog noise, and the RX/TX are digital channels, i.e. the signal there is encoded and should be more error-prone, shouldn't it?

[@FPVZaphod]

Knows since years, my good (lie) old Gopro Hero1 behaved already bad with Scherrer UHF on 433. Nice Video, I think it would be helpful to create a list, which cam is to take care of with what technology? The Runcam Split (at least v1) kills all Sats on every GPS closer than 15cm around. Just ordered a Hybrid, curious how this will be... Thanks for the info!

[@woj1999]

I am having issues with BN-180 gps and Caddx Turtle V2, the GPS cant get a fix on my quad when running camera, and without camera it takes ages (+18mins). Would LM filter on GPS power help anything or perhaps shielding of some sort?

[@leephcom]

I've been saying this for a long time. It's not just HD cameras though, FPV-only cameras can be responsible for this as well, case in point Caddx FPV cameras like SDB2 and MicroF2 - definitely affect GPS signal as well. Any camera that has a digital processor seems to be noisy unless the manufacturer has taken steps to shield.

[@MCsCreations]

Really, really interesting experiment, Pawel! 😃 Thanks a lot!!!

[@Kotokrotik]

What SDR you are using?

[@heggy_fpv]

yes, it's kinda known that split and foxeer are very bad on gps. can we workaround that on quads with tin foil on the bottom of gps? very few placement possibilities on the quad

[@heggy_fpv]

ah, it was mentioned. how to ground it properly?

[@johndaniels3889]

I had gps fix problems and would only get a max of 5 sats when it took ages to get those few , until I put copper tape under the gps ,I also have cam and vtx powers on a switch and turn them on after a few minutes after the gps ,now it locks on in seconds and average 12 sats at once

[@13FPV]

My long range quad has the gps on the arm near the motor and running a Caddx Turtle v1 with no problems! But on one of my wings I have a 1000mw 1.3 Ghz vtx which couse gps lock problems... My solution is first powering the fc over usb with a powerbank, once the gps has a lock, I plug in the lipo, then disconnect the usb power and everything is up and running.

[@pierrefpv]

No way! I just had this issue this morning and was googling it today :-D I will be moving my GPS to one of the arms. I had mine on top of the Session 5. I did not have the issue with the Runcam 5, go fixure :-)

[@truog2003brasilia]

I have this problem with ublox m8n and camera firefly 8s...

[@SickocrowAU]

GoPRo is not safe. The 7 black intefers with the GPS quite badly when filming.

[@tcmichals]

What kind of USB dongle are you using to measure RF?

[@FPVUniversity]

Second link in a description of a video

[@markhinchcliffe5803]

Is there software Pawel that needs to be used for this dongle.

[@markhinchcliffe5803]

Is this link the same as yours,it looks different and antenna to.

[@DoctorWhom]

@@markhinchcliffe5803 software looks like SDR# aka SDRSharp. For drivers you need to use Zadig tool, which is linked in INAV or Betaflight configurator. When I clicked the link I got a generic search on aliexpress for 'rtl-sdr' these are available on there, or maybe amazon has something if you're in a hurry. The antenna shouldn't matter too much in this use case. In europe the rtl2832u can also be used to watch TV.

[@markhinchcliffe5803]

Thankyou very much Kyle

[@SchonRichtig]

Also have problems with GPS using the foxeer box 1 und 2. Better than moving the GPS a few cm away was a little sheet aluminum foil :) The box 2 is more problematic than the first one and I often had only 2-6 sats, with the sheet of foil in the back of the box I have now at least 10 sats. You should try this, yust 2 layers aluminum foil and now the GPS is as good as without the box.

[@NoAgendaFPV]

Haven't had issues with this yet, but good to know. Thanks!

[@markhinchcliffe5803]

Is there another link,i cant seem to get into allied

[@markhinchcliffe5803]

How about an answer Pawel?

[@rodolfoabs]

Yes. I have to remove my split 2 from the plane. 8 minutes to fix and only 8-10 sats

[@Toppe_rHonda]

Thats 100% right! I have shielded my GPS with a thin Metal Plate and the Wires with some Datacable Shield to isolate them from the Tarsier. Look like that works, but i need more Flights to be shure.

[@sushia.f.1809]

I love stuff like this! Thanks for this info!

[@HERSDT_FPV]

6:36 no difference? You blind? see the lines!!! its digital noise!! one of the lines i think its gps and line near appear when camera on

[@HERSDT_FPV]

*I did this experiment 1 year ago!!! AND GOPRO SHUTDOWN GPS SIGNAL TOO* To do this experiment yo need gust U-Center programm, and you can see levels of gps satelits receiving with camera and witout. To fix problrm you just need to shield your camera ( shield needs to be reflect like miror , you can do it from aluminium foil and capton tape) .

[@NicuIrimia]

I avoided these problems by accident when I thought about making a GPS jumpstart battery from on old phone batt. I power first the gps, prepare everything else, then switch connectors and quad is GPS in less than a sec because of hot start.

[@surplusdriller1]

why did you not test at the civilian GPS f of 1575.42Ghz ?

[@sladelefty]

Thank you I just ordered some emi shielding copper tape from amazon. Only $10

[@jkell69]

Any luck with this?

[@sladelefty]

Jordan Kelly Yes I wrapped it around the camera and there is much less electrical noise.

[@rodrigokavazuro6012]

@@sladelefty only camera or Tarsier board to?

[@marianofpv]

Anyone tried home made EMI shielding?

[@rocraz01]

Hi there, Mariano. I'm looking for this kind of home made EMI shielding right now. I'm gonna build a 4-inch LR quad with BN220 and Tarsier. Let me know if you have found anything that could help this setup. Cheers.

[@loving-soil]

My Foxeer Legend 3 made much RF noise on 868 MHz Crossfire, couldnt fly anything far with it

[@yokonunz]

Foxeer MIXv1 and MIXv2 are not causing any issues with GPS :)

[@rockcityfpv9117]

I have a quad with Foxxer Mix with on top the GPS literally and never an issue EVER.

[@KCLeung-gm8ql]

I should watch this video before I've installed my split camera.

[@xovox9507]

Runcam Thumb pro kills my GPS

[@verdi6092]

I came here after the flywoo lr issue