GR86 Motor Problems

[@crocus9905]

Hook up a pressure washer to it, drill through the firewall and put the trigger next to the steering wheel. Every time you turn just hold it down to give you some oil pressure.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Hell yeah brother!!

[@dontwaste111]

ironically enough you just described exactly what an accusump would do automatically on oil pressure loss, which at the moment seems to be the best fix outside of fitting a full fledged dry sump system

[@matthewwain9958]

I believe you need data not just 'think' it's good. There was a video recently showing the differences in left and right corners where one direction would cause oil pressure to drop half way, and elevation changes made it worse. For a really good handling car, this was REALLY poor of Subaru to not have this very basic stuff taken care of. Good luck with what you find out. Lot's of people wanting a solid fix for this. (EDIT: The video in question is by 900BRZ and titled: "BRZ/GR86 FA24 Oil Pressure Loss Demonstration")

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I agree. I’ve seen a lot of data that is showing what they’re talking about. I just wanted to bring attention to what I’m doing to help prevent some of these issues and I know it’s not going to solve it 100% until we get a better baffle plate, design/pan.

[@matthewwain9958]

@@phelpsgarage4202 the more attention the better. I'm sure we are in the same frame of mind. Apologies if I didn't articulate it well enough the first time around.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@matthewwain9958 no worries here! Hopefully the aftermarket can help solve the issue

[@ScottoGrotto]

@@phelpsgarage4202seems like Subaru/ Toyota should offer some track friendly pans baffles especially for a vehicle that is this sporty and track oriented. But aftermarket as needed.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@ScottoGrotto I agree

[@warrenlucier5796]

My comments are purely to try to help in keeping these engines together, no more no less. I have a 2nd gen Cayman S as the engines in the 1st gen had issues due to design flaws in which the aftermarket has addressed most of them, to keep them from blowing up, and the 2nd gen engine is a new sheet of paper design. My brother has a 1st gen FRS and though he isn't racing it I looked into the problems they have with oiling. I wish I could examine an engine that is disassembled to look at the oilways to come up with a solution, if in fact it's possible to do so. My thoughts on the problem in naturally asperated for is as follows; 5W40 oil, truncated baffled higher capacity sump, oil cooler, better pickup (larger diameter tube) for oil pump, windage tray, improve oil returns from heads & de-aeration (swirl-pots), see and correct (if necessary) if too much oil is is being directed to the cylinder heads for lubrication and valve spring cooling, install a 2nd feed to the main bearing that is feeding 2 connecting rods, install ARP rod bolts for the safety factor they allow and live with the factory red line. The oil pressure is secondary to a constant high oil volume and the rule of thumb is 10 psi per 1,000 RPM's. Hope this is useful to the community and have fun.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yes I agree. Thank you for sharing!

[@michaeljohn1160]

Again tracking a new car is fine. Serious tracking is asking for it. You will spend $$$$ to prevent blowing engine a new $32k car? Not smart money. Used cheaper cars are more fun. I pick my stripped, tuned, pro-transmission 2018 brz track car (84k) over my gr86 or Cayman s. It’s a raw go kart. Zero issues since it was born.

[@RedC63AMG]

I lost two motors at Sebring (T17)before moving on to a different platform. Used Redline 5W30 with oil cooler and had a baffled pan on the built motor. Car was lightened to 2600 pounds, tuned for E85 on A7’s. IMO it’s simply a flat motor design challenge that Porsche has solved and Subaru has not. In addition to centrifugal force bumpy surfaces like T17 can create vertical slosh lifting the oil away from the pickup tube inlet. Dry sump would help a lot but I’m still concerned that the internal plumbing can’t cope with the high G lateral affect.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Kills me to hear it.. sounds like I need to get a C6Z. I love Sebring due to it’s character

[@ZeroOmega]

What is the car you lost 2 engines? Is that a gen1 GT86 or a gen2 GR86? And what pan baffle did u use?

[@RedC63AMG]

@@ZeroOmega 2012 FRS Don't remember what brand the baffled oil pan was but the built motor failure was due to a right side rocker arm failure. Entire valve train was aftermarket except for the rocker arms but severe lateral force pulled the oil away from the right side heads

[@ZeroOmega]

@@RedC63AMG Thanks for sharing. IIRC, rocker arm failure is also one of the known issue on gen1 FA20 engines. I heard post 2015 engines have it addressed but i could be wrong. From my oil pressure data logs. GR86 FA24 engine suffers severe oil pressure drops at long/complex right hand corners and it will become even more severe when combined with elevation changes. FA20 seems to be slightly better in the same scenario but it has pressure drops as well. It may or may not related to your failure. But T17 at Sebring looks like a complex right turn that matches this pattern. IMO, Subaru powertrains sucks.

[@jesantiago009]

Sorry to hear you having to switch platforms dealing with this. I wondered whether this was engine layout specific and looked up whether Porsche had issues with this and ran into some Porsche threads on this being an issue. Seems like they’ve sorted it out and hopefully there’s an aftermarket fix for the BRZ. Learning to drive manual on this car and planning to track it, would hate to learn on it only to ruin it during future track use. These videos are helpful and informative though.

[@SpaceFoxAD]

60 PSI is a great improvement I think, its definitely confidence inspiring to see that with a good baffle and cooler combo there is a substantial improvement on oil pressure when cornering hard. My 86 is currently sitting in customs, hopefully arriving at my dealership soon. Trying to do as much research as I can on this topic to try and extend the longevity of my soon to be new car as I do plan on tracking it eventually, but I'd like to make sure the engine is properly oiled as well in spirited street driving (ie. tail of the dragon, Keweenaw peninsula etc.)

[@phelpsgarage4202]

The easiest mod is to drain the oil and add 5w-30 with a tad bit over fill for safety. Once you start tracking if you not worried about the warranty do the baffle plate and oil cooler.

[@SpaceFoxAD]

@phelpsgarage4202 I wish toyota were more clear about their warranty policy, but I guess that gives them a bigger CYOA if engine damage were to occur. I'll steer away from the baffle and cooler for now, but I'll definitely monitor oil pressure in spirited driving to see if even that is affected. Despite all of the FA24s shortcomings, I'm still excited for the car and I hope to enjoy the chassis for a very long time

[@elwynll]

Great video, thanks for going through this in detail. I am in the market for a 86 and this has been helpful/put me more at ease. When I test drove the 86 it felt so good to drive but I was getting a little put off at all the issues I had been reading about these cars/engines. Also random, but I realised I commented on one of your 135i videos from many years ago too... come full circle 😆..

[@phelpsgarage4202]

😂 thank you for still watching!!

[@boostedghost3182]

Just researching the car because I’ve been hearing about them blowing on track. This video has great info thank you 🙏

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thank you for watching!

[@boostedghost3182]

@@phelpsgarage4202 alway bro ! Good luck on the build !! Can’t wait to see more 💪💪

[@janjaap2598]

Love the data specs👍 on this , thx for that! Maybe a bigger oil pan will help too. I know from the fa20 that a big oil pan (2/4g or 2liter more) helps a lot in temp control/lube. I keep following you,enjoy driving you car ✌️my friend . Looking forward for new data,💪

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thank you!

[@SGTPJ]

Thank you for posting your findings, I got my 22 BRZ last Tuesday and I am already driving some what with fear, but I intend to keep it until a tested fix comes out and this is one way to Start. I appreciate it.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thanks for watching! I’ll be running 5w-40 for further help

[@SGTPJ]

@@phelpsgarage4202 I need to get the oil done as well! Know that I feel the pain of the what if for such a beautiful fun car

[@TorpedoJohnson]

I have seen one case of someone running 5w30 blow up. Probably starved in a turn so it didnt matter what weight in their case.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Correct I don’t care how good your oil is if your motor isn’t supplying it to its needs.. That’s why I would recommend the baffle plate

[@_Capitancorrea_]

This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. I just bought my ‘23 BRZ in February and I love this car but I’ve been looking for stuff that could make my car become very reliable even before I bought it. I only have 3800 miles in my car but once I get my first oil change, I’m going to get that Tomei Oil Pan for sure because that makes the oil come down how it should. Until around autumn season, I’m daily driving my car so I’m kind of worried if I should change the oil or leave it at 0w20 because I haven’t heard anyone else change it like you have. But I really do appreciate your help honestly!

[@phelpsgarage4202]

The tomei baffle plate is not 100% going to solve the problem but it does help. Having slightly thicker oil helps and having your oil temp stay cooler also helps. Killer Bee has something coming soon that should help also. If it was my car I wouldn’t track it with 0W 20.

[@_Capitancorrea_]

@@phelpsgarage4202 I’ll definitely change the oil and have the oil temp stay cooler than! Can’t wait to see what you have next, thank you

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@_Capitancorrea_ we have a couple of things coming soon 😎

[@johnrooney507]

Would the Tomei oil pan put it out of warranty?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@johnrooney507 that’s a question for the dealership. But I feel like they will try to use anything to deny a warranty claim.

[@ericmichel3857]

When I first started hearing about these issues with this car, I was wondering why there was no aftermarket oil pan baffle being offered. I don't know much about this car so I thought maybe there is some technical reason why it could not be done? However, after seeing yours I am even more baffled :) that no one seems to be selling something like this (looks good BTW). I mean especially if folks are already dropping the oil pan (or paying someone else to do it) to check for RTV! This seems like a no brainer to add IMO, and if you were seeing oil pressure dropping to 30 PSI on track and now it never goes below 60 PSI, clearly it works. Thicker oil, oil cooler, and oil pan baffle, this is common sense and yet all the videos of folks talking about this issue, this is the first one I have seen where these potential solutions have even been mentioned. Are most people that buy and work on these cars really that clueless? Or did I just miss those conversations?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thank you for the kind words! Most people probably don’t want to void their warranty. And even though what I’m doing is working, it’s still not 100% I believe the aftermarket is doing something, but it’s taking time to develop and then test and then put it out into the world.

[@ericmichel3857]

@@phelpsgarage4202 I don't know, from what I have heard it seems like chances are slim that an oil starved motor failure will even be covered under warranty regardless. If you are going to track the car, I would much rather have the added insurance. And if you really want to try for a warranty claim, it is not all that hard to drop the pan and remove a baffle, is it? This issue has been on the radar for some time now (well over a year I believe), I have seen shops put together and then test and tune an entire turbo upgrade systems in a matter of weeks, you really think it takes this long to develop an oil pan baffle? Is there room to make an improved oil pan, perhaps something that might work even better with a baffle and increase volume?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@ericmichel3857 I don’t think we knew how serious the problem was a year ago. But I do know there are companies testing products now I just don’t know how long it takes to be released to the public or the cost. It’s not to difficult to remove the pan for the second time around.

[@tvtime2644]

Syms Racing has a baffled oil pan and STI Japan offers one as well, along with just a baffle set. Trust, Tomei, and Cusco offer baffle plates as well. At least in the JDM market.

[@ericmichel3857]

@@tvtime2644 Oh okay that makes a lot more sense, in fact I thought he said he used a homemade baffle plate, but I now realize what he really said was Tomei baffle plate, I see that now thanks. Okay so there are already a bunch of options. Obviously I know almost nothing about this car/engine. So if the older model and the WRX/STI use basically the same engine, why is this issue only mentioned with the new 2.4 liter engine? Or is this an issue with all versions, and I just never heard about it? You hear so much BS I don't know what to believe, some say this is a very reliable track platform (especially in NA form), then others claim it has a reputation... I am starting to suspect the problems might be more user induced. I mean you can't run slicks pulling 1.5 G's and expect a stock setup to handle all of that, is that what these chuckle heads are doing? And then jumping on the internet claiming the car has a design problem? Okay I think I get it now

[@NoHoHank]

I’ve been running with about an extra 1/2 quart of 5w30 for the track, haven’t seen any foaming occur but at the same time after 3 track days and 2k road trip, I’ve seen oil burn a bit maybe 1/4 of a quart

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Everything else is stock?

[@NoHoHank]

@@phelpsgarage4202 yep pretty much stock, camber bolts and rt660s, I’m in the northeast so I haven’t seen oil temps on stock cooler more than 240 deg F when ambient track temps are 60-80 deg F… I need to get something that measures oil pressure but my catalyst shows 1.27Gs consistently

[@TheeneF]

I switched to 5W30 and will be switching to synthetic 5W40 for peace of mind. The oil pan baffles don't seem to provide me with the protection, thanks to all the research I've done. We need something else. Good video thank you for the work.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thank you for watching!!

[@JaberAlkhalifa]

Great videos thank you for sharing. I have a GT86 and I have the full Toyota TMG cup modification upgrade similar to the ones used on the Nürburgring cup series. I have the oil cooler and the cosworth baffle plate I was also told by Toyota Motorsport Germany to avoid using the recommended 0W20 for track and I should change to 10W60. They also recommended to change the oil and other fluids after a hard weekend at the track. My cars milage is around 70k now mostly hard use both on road and track. One thing I'm not using from TMG is the engine ECU tune I'm using a company in England the name is Fensport check them out I believe they have the best tune for the GT86 and the GR86 👍

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Hell yeah, thanks for sharing!!

[@KevinWong_BRZ]

One thing I'd like to add as a fourth problem or thing to address is the volume of oil inside the pan - the pan itself is PRETTY small and add some high lateral Gs, you might actually NOT have enough RETURNING oil volumes / flowrates back to the pan to sustain a flooded pickup EVEN WITH baffles. From my research with a local shop, there is no real way to expand the volume of the pan itself and looking up at the space above the pan mating surface, you can actually overfill the pan. So solution? Baffle + overfill. I currently haven't slapped on sticky tires yet but I've consistently used 0-30 or 5-30 and overfilled with 5.25 liters of Motul. No issues yet.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Im at 6 quarts because of the oil cooler.. I’ll probably push a little bit more.

[@KevinWong_BRZ]

@@phelpsgarage4202 you probably could. I didn't really see anything that shouldn't be lubricated above the oil pan especially if you have baffles to prevent most of the oil from creeping upwards out of the pan. Once I get my oil cooler, its time to add even more.

[@stevef3521]

@@phelpsgarage4202FA20 is 5.7 quarts with the filter.

[@efactor1984]

5W-30 is the way to go with Perrin Oil Cooler. Had it in my FA20 for 3 years since boosting with zero issues.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I like to hear that!

[@kchan333]

30 weight yeah... but I wouldn't go -40 on oil. If it the engine is designed for -20 then I would assume bearing clearances are on the tighter side.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah if I do it I would let it warm up before I did any hard driving

[@ScottoGrotto]

Super video! Good to hear you have healthier oil pressure now on right hand corners! Have you gotten your oil analysis back yet? I have an 02 WRX wagon that had it’s motor out, torn down at 176k due to a burned exhaust valve ( they were pretty thin by that point ). One track day, but lots of spirited corners. I had one bearing, lower rod I think, that had a few layers showing. The WRX early motors had 1 oiling hole per bearing, updated crankshafts had 2 oiling holes. I went with a new short block. I used Walmart 10-30 Mobil 1 in the 5 quart jugs every 5k. Cylinders still had hone crosshatch throughout the cylinders at 176k even with a stage 1 tune. Not sure if the track day, old crank design, or exceeding the baffle design almost got me? Dealer reused the original oil pump and internal oil cooler. I’ve got about 90k miles on the newer motor. The new short block had a much finer hard to see honing. I’ve generally run 5-30 Mobil 1 in the new motor. I think it’s designed to run lighter oil, but I like a thicker oil for a little insurance. There was a lot of debate on oils and analysis in the WRX community. Shell 0-40 synthetic I think was kind of well thought of? I hope more BRZ 86 owners see your videos!

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thank you! No I haven’t heard anything about the oil analysis yet.. I also had a 02 WRX and a 07 STi. The STi was super fun but never tracked it. It’s made 460 hp on race gas 😎😅

[@ScottoGrotto]

@@phelpsgarage4202 oh, cool! I have a friend that did well in auto-X with both an early WRX Wagon and maybe on ‘05 or ‘06 sti, I think he may have been a national champ in the sti. He went on to first gen BRZ, not sure how that worked out, but he loved the car :) I got to be part of the BRZ introduction brochure social media shoot for Subaru in 2012. I was an “Enthusiast”, and got to hustle it up some canyon road closed by the chp a number of times, and give impressions. All good, an amazing car!

[@andoniades]

I hope that with all these vids about oil performance, the manufacturer will make the necessary fixes in the next few model years.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Cheers 🍻 to that!

[@apexchaser6187]

Considering selling both my 2020 Mazda 3 AWD, as well as my 95 Miata to pick one of these up. As reliability is one of my highest priorities, I'm a little heartbroken to discover the issues around these engines after test driving a 2022 with 7,000, mi on it and falling in love. Really glad this community is on top of things and sharing the information. ❤️👏👏👍

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Hopefully the aftermarket will have a really good solution for the fix 🙏🏻

[@apexchaser6187]

@@phelpsgarage4202 One of the vids I stumbled upon a video after this one, indicating that somebody is currently testing a prototype baffle for the oil pan that should assist with the oil psi drop around right hand corners and elevation drops. If I pull the trigger on the purchase, I'll just have to deny myself the joy of right hand cloverleaf entrance ramps until the issue is sorted😢. (Probably wouldn't do any track days either 😭)

[@apexchaser6187]

@@phelpsgarage4202 kzbin.info/www/bejne/anvOZoqKjNSkqpY

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@apexchaser6187 thicker and cooler oil until then..

[@apexchaser6187]

@@phelpsgarage4202 yeah, multiple people as well as you have offered up that suggestion. Happily take a small decrease in fuel economy, for longevity overall 👍

[@mitchellruiz3947]

Has there been reports of a FA24 blowing up from daily driven use?? Would you recommend doing these mods if not tracking my gr86?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Not that I know of. No, I would at least run 5w-30 if not tracking

[@andrejlukac1783]

All is needed is oil overfill by 0,5 quart if you want hard track that car, if you have wider tires, coilovers and a lot of grip, overfill it by quart on track day. Thats all what you need to do

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah, that’s the easiest way to solve the issue. It’s still exist, but this by far is probably the best thing you can do. I’m curious to see how the new pairing from verus engineering works.

[@markr2195]

I’m using my ‘23 BRZ for autocross in S. Florida heat. It’s stock other than Falken 200 TW 225’s and exhaust. I’m planning on running 5w 30 and leaving everything else alone to hopefully save my warranty coverage. Does this make sense or no?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I would use the 5w30 and keeping it stock for the warranty is probably the best thing if anything happens.

[@markr2195]

Thanks for the reply. Keep up the excellent content!

[@PBrooksSawyer]

Great info thanks man! Curious, what do you do for a living? Love the videos man.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thanks for watching! I’m in chemical sales and I try to live below my means lol

[@richard9799]

I really really want to buy one but it really does seem to suck because everywhere i turn there is a video explaining about the engine blowing up. I dont plan on tracking the car but i would like to drive it hard every once in a while. I would like to drop the oil pan maybe 3k into the car but im not sure. Would pike to know your thoughts. Any advice? What oil to run for daily use?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

So if you’re not going to track the car you should be fine. It’s the high g forces on right hand corner that cause the issue. You’ll probably never see that on a stock car due to the limited amount of grip. A good quality 5w30 oil is what I would recommend.

[@davidpotter8486]

Oil temp and viscosity only help if oil is present. I believe the problem to be slosh and the problem is created when the cars lateral performance is improved. I also believe the rtv issue (while unsettling) is not the root cause and at best a minor contributor. Toyoburu extensively tests these cars during design to protect their image and limit liability. Therefore I believe these cars to be extremely reliable is stock form. Fact is you improve the performance of the limiting factor in an engineered system, sometimes a new limiting factor emerges. This one just happens to really hurt. However, this is the nature of motor sports and design.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@davidpotter8486 yep! The faster we go and harder we push we find new limits

[@andresrtorres9794]

Very well described and explained. The old FA20 had the same exact issues. Eventually the motor will go even with all mods as you explained. For the price is still packing a lot of driving balance and fun with decanter reliability.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thank you! It’s super fun on track

[@stevef3521]

Thoughts on the FA20 and blowing if not tracked but driven hard? What oil brand and weight would you recommend?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@stevef3521 it doesn’t look like the FA20 motors have the same issues as the FA24 motors with the low oil pressure on right hand turns. I would still recommend a high quality 5W 30.

[@stevef3521]

@@phelpsgarage4202 I’ve been running Idemitsu 0w-20 as the previous owner only used that and swore by it. It’s been very well maintained as previous owner is a mechanic. I’m thinking about trying Motul when I change it next.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@stevef3521 do you track it?

[@michaeljohn1160]

With our race cars, awhile back we had poor cooling of engines with oil coolers mounted in front of the radiator. Even fog light block air flow. We moved oil coolers to different place. Not saying it’s the “cause”, but it definitely impacted cooling of engine with it in front blocking it.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I’m thinking maybe even a bigger oil cooler

[@brendonts]

Maybe unrelated but the manual for my BRZ states to check the oil very frequently (every two fill-ups) and even addresses more aggressive driving. Admittedly I was surprised when I ran the oil below the dipstick because I was busy with work and didn't check for a while (this was at the 6500 mile mark). I did get this documented with Subaru but maybe just worth noting. The point is this car seems to consume oil which might catch some people by surprise. Not a lot of people on the internet share the full context of their ownership when something goes wrong. Still, I do thing Toyota/Subaru messed up a bit in contributing to blown engines. I had a Toyota from 2011 that also used 02-20 and consumed a lot of oil.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah I don’t recommend 0w20

[@Tonga2]

Yes the 2.4 has been designed to rev freely and to get the most out of it GaZo racing put light weight pistons with low tension piston rings. If owned 3 BRZs and my current one was broken in for an extended time and find it uses less oil but still I find that when I drive it hard it seems to push oil past the rings. Not that much. On the interstate the same thing, long drives at elevated speeds gets the oil hotter and it uses oil but not that much. I check my oil daily before driving and always maintain full status. Less chance of oil pickup sucking air with high G forces in tight turns. My other very important safety measure is to set my rev limiter warning to 6800 rpms because the engine power peaks at 7000 rpms and I find that by the time the warning has sounded I’m already past 6800 rpms and at 7000 rpms. That to me is being safe. Oil viscosity is personal preference, I’m good with factory recommendations and changing the oil sooner. For me, I’d love to see someone design a larger capacity oil pan with baffles that could fit ?? OH ! One last remark, I have heard that engine computers have recorded over rev events, like 8000 rpms, THAT will run bears dry and it doesn’t take to many over rev events to wear out a bearing. I’m sure that’s why we hear of track cars with spun bearings !!!

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@Tonga2 with my E85 tune my cars redline is 7k not 7.5. I feel the aftermarket is have a better pan and baffle plate

[@NapalmPineapple]

I think that’s true of most boxer engines and any performance 4 cylinder that gets revved out or driven hard. Both my Miata’s that I had before consumed oil after a while, and my Honda definitely burned oil after a while… It’s wear and tear on the engine. If you’re gonna drive your car harder, you need to pay attention more and be more on top of maintenance is the bottom line. However imo the service interval on the FA24/20 for oil changes is way too long.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@NapalmPineapple yeah, you definitely have to pay to play. That’s why I’m modifying the car to keep up with demand.

[@davidog3]

Great content just FYI the First gen cars VVTI Cams don’t like the thicker 40 weight oil, it will bring check engine light codes related to cam correlations, wonder if it’s still An issue for this second gen engines.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Good point I’ll find out. I mainly just track the car so the temps are high so hopefully 0w40 is not too much

[@ej254]

Mine is 2016 and I always run 5w40 since it was 10k miles... now sets at 75k miles never had issues with avcs/vvti due to 5w40

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@ej254 good to know!

[@christopherfarish4965]

Hey man, I’m also in Florida and I’ve been wanting to get into the track scene. Where do you go? I only know of Daytona and Sebring down here.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Race the firm, and Miami speedway. I’m home track is Sebring. Where are you located?

[@christopherfarish4965]

@@phelpsgarage4202 Orlando. Smack dab in the middle.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@christopherfarish4965 sweet come out to Sebring September 30 and get some seat time

[@christopherfarish4965]

@@phelpsgarage4202 Awesome. Looking forward to it. In the process of locking down a 128i.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@christopherfarish4965 I had a tuned 135i years ago

[@JohnLee-hb9ix]

Thanks so much for your thoughts on this. About to take delivery of my ‘23 GR86 MT and would like to track it with some peace of mind!

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Of course! Thanks for watching! Good luck and enjoy

[@tizio13]

Did you make this video in collaboration with @900brz? I noticed a frame from his video on this subject as well.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

No not really but we did talk a little about it

[@tizio13]

@@phelpsgarage4202 Well I really appreciate you posting about the baffle. I lost my 13 FRS to this issue. I think this will be one of my first mods for my next 86

[@politicallyerect6086]

Minimum 5w30 ✅ Run at least an extra quart for the track ✅ Oil cooler ✅ Baffle plate✅ Killer bee pickup ✅ 2qt accusump ✅ FA20 on Hoosiers/aero and haven’t had any issues.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I agree with you on that. FA24 has a offset pickup and I believe that’s why we’re having this issue on hard right hand corners

[@politicallyerect6086]

@@phelpsgarage4202 FA20 is a weird design as well. Killer bee has a straight angle and larger ID

[@denstoj]

Ooh yeah that pressure dropping on the right hand corners isn't great. A bit more about how the oiling works (FA20) but in the valvetrain kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpqQdGSMgt2eaac

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thanks for sharing

[@denstoj]

@@phelpsgarage4202 no problem. Once we pull out our FA24 we're going to do a comparison with the FA20

[@SacerKtracho]

The pick up plate looks smart. Should make one to the other youtuber who does the test to see if the oil still drops.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I’m just waiting for the aftermarket to build it

[@K03sport]

is there anything to increase oil capacity? an additional quart or so can't hurt above what is added in the oil cooler/lines? can a wider oil coiler fit in the front bumper?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Unless someone makes a bigger oil pan. The issue is that we can’t extend the oil pickup. And if someone makes a pan, it has to clear all the aftermarket headers which can be a pain. Wider oil cooler could fit but doesn’t help the oil starvation on right hand corner

[@CPE-j1u]

Toyota should have this car with L4 - 2.5L. I had it in my Scion tC, made 300K with NO / NONE / absolutely ZERO issues while driving very fast/hard.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah, and now Toyota has teamed up with Bmw for all of their cars I believe.

[@reactor4]

I'm not a GR86 owner but do follow the car and scene a bit. I would be looking for the differences in Porsches Boxster design.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Let’s see what the aftermarket can do to help us

[@KareemAbawi]

how about running an exotic viscosity like 0-30?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

It’s better than 0w-20. Let’s see what 5w-40 looks like

[@Thellkr3000]

Do you guys think for a daily that from time to time is driven a bit hard should still have 5w 30 oil?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yes, even in the owners manual, it says you can run 5w30

[@ThePovertyStudio1]

If you got high mileage it's time to swap to thicker oil. Your clearances get eaten up over time leaving space for oil to get by so if you go thicker it'll have a harder time getting through piston rings and whatnot which equals less blow by and less oil consumption

[@daintreetosea]

@@ThePovertyStudio1thought this was old school myth. Newer engines I thought used thinner oils to circulate faster and lubricate better. Hasn’t the viscosity got more to do with ambient temps and perhaps engines with lower(opposed to higher tolerances? Where are the molecular geniuses when u need em 😅

[@ThePovertyStudio1]

@@daintreetosea what's a myth? The fact that your clearances get worn out and need thicker oil?

[@michaeljohn1160]

NOTE: factory will cover blown engine untouched for 3yr/36k. Once you open oil pan, add engine mods, that gives them a reason to deny warranty if blown. My2cents. Want to be safe from paying for a blown engine, drive stock (daily/track). After warranty, sell or drop pan and go crazy. Never use a new car as a serious track car, unless you have a yacht and 3 homes. Buy a used 2016+ brz/86, strip off 500lbs, add exhaust, suspension and tires and it will be as fast as a 2gen on the track. My 2018 1gen track car (2,170lbs w/tune) can pass my 2gen on the track no problem, it’s dialed in. Also helps if your an experienced track driver. 2gen were sold as a fun daily you could take to the track. Not the other way around.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

2170lbs?!? I’m 2850

[@Rafael-wb8my]

i don’t really autocross or go on track days but i do a lot of spirited driving in the backroads (empty mostly surrounded by farms). Are there mods I can do that isn’t a full on overhaul to avoid this problem?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I would probably just go with 5w30 and if temps over over 260 maybe a oil cooler but I doubt you’ll get them there

[@nathenyoung3861]

Would it be ok to do these mods even if you don't track the car , like it's just a daily driver that you like to be aggressive and have fun sometimes

[@phelpsgarage4202]

It won’t hurt but not necessarily. Overfill it with 5w30 and keep the temps below 260

[@Tomas-x6f]

Any way of tracking oil pressure via RaceChrono?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I’m not 100% sure but I know there is a way we can become people are doing it

[@anthonymolinaro374]

How many of these things have you seen blow up? as far as I am aware there are only a handful of engine failures documented. Is there some sort of metric we can refer to? I just tracked mine, and my local tracks have seen tons of these things lap with no issue. Perhaps I am just new and not pushing that hard. I just want to know if there really is an issue at large here, or if were chasing ghosts? As a dedicated track car it makes sense to take precautions, but for people who just occasionally track it a few times a year I am curious if its really a cause for concern?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

About 4 of them that I know of. So not a lot but still makes me wonder.. I feel with the 3 mods I talk about we should be good.. let’s hope 🙏🏻

[@thestoningwalrus8613]

I might be wrong here but I’m pretty sure these cars sold in Japan and Europe come from the factory with 5w30. It’s what I use in my gr86 and every 4-5,000 miles the oil is about halfway to the full mark on the dipstick so even then I get a little consumption. Subaru life I guess🙄

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Whatever they use should be replaced with a higher quality oil. I’m always checking my oil at the track and I never have to add anything..

[@bluelacyseo8964]

My GR86 has about 9,500 miles now. With these engines, after an oil change, crank over the engine w/o starting (push the gas all the way down and the clutch). Then start the car and let it run for a short time. Turn it off and wait about 10 minutes before checking the oil. You will probably see that the oil is low, so top it up. When my new GR was delivered it was about a half quart low. When the Toyota dealer did the first oil change, I checked it at home after letting it sit for 15 minutes and it was a half quart low. My car has never used any oil between oil changes.

[@Ben-ig5ih]

Is it a good thing to use thicker oil for daily driving?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I would said yes once it’s up to temperature.

[@RAY_FILET]

Should this discourage anyone from buying this car as a daily driver?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

As a daily driver, nope! Not at all.. it’s something to consider if you’re going to heavily track and modify

[@RAY_FILET]

​​​@@phelpsgarage4202thank you so much for the response! PLEASE ADDRESS TWO MORE QUESTIONS- I am seriously concerned about highway on/off ramps and have you ever noticed random misfires using an OBD2 scanner?... What are your thoughts on this?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@RAY_FILETfor the highway, I never worry. Misfires ? I haven’t even heard of that.

[@CourtyBoi]

Do you know what the GR Cup teams are doing to address the issue?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I think they do have some type of baffle plate

[@williebrown1974]

Just saw a video where the oil pressure drops a lot on right hand turns.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

It’s bad.. hopefully killer b and solve this issue

[@jpexgarage]

How high was the oil level? Is the oil level between the gauge min/max markings?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I keep it just a tad above full

[@jpexgarage]

@@phelpsgarage4202 i recommended to add more than 500ml of oil from full Run with oil that is 5-10mm more the full level point As you know, it is considered advantageous to increase the amount of oil above the regulation because the problem of not coming down is greater than the problem of locking the oil in the oil pan

[@CarsOverPeople]

What about an oil catch can? Or better yet an air-oil-separator for even more protection?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I have two catch cans and they don’t have any to do with the oiling system. They manly stop the oil from getting into the intakes system so your car doesn’t burn the oil.

[@CarsOverPeople]

@@phelpsgarage4202 Right so for extra protection/reliability then. But isn’t an air-oil-separator more effective and/or easier to own since it doesn’t require any maintenance like a catch can does?

[@OzzyJackal72]

Have you thought about running a dry sump setup to deal with the pressure drop?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

That would be nice! Do they even make one for this car?

[@OzzyJackal72]

@@phelpsgarage4202 nothing specific yet (I haven't had a good look yet), but the only thing that would need to fit specifically would be the shallow pan with grooves for easy pump pickup. I've currently got my second gen BRZ in workshop here in Perth, Western Australia. It's essentially an R&D project for Sprintex and Tokyo Motorsports. They are installing an S5 210 supercharger. There are fixture modifications that need doing.

[@OzzyJackal72]

@@phelpsgarage4202 GSpeed did a dry sump for the FA20. Maybe touch base with them and see if they have anything yet

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@OzzyJackal72 I would love to boost this car but need to make sure we solve the oil issue

[@OzzyJackal72]

@@phelpsgarage4202 I'll let you know how it goes with the SC. I'm starting out modest with the boost until a few other support mods are in and more info on the engine limits. My car isn't for Track world just Street and car shows.

[@Zadnak1]

Do you have any actual data of oil pressure for 0w-20 vs 0w-30 or 5w-30?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

No but what we see is about 10 psi from 5w-30 to 5w-40

[@GR_FIRERARIZZ]

Would you recomment the Syms racing oil pan or the tomei? both seem to cost about the same.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I don’t know much on the syms.. but killer b is working on something that might solve the problem.

[@GR_FIRERARIZZ]

@@phelpsgarage4202 That is the same conversation i just had with Ezikiel from CM autohaus. Thanks yeah i guess i wait a bit more. im just worried the damage is already done. I just did my 7th and 8th track days at sonoma this past weekend with 23K miles. High key was worried it was going to die either of those days.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@GR_FIRERARIZZ what weight oil?

[@GR_FIRERARIZZ]

@@phelpsgarage4202 mostly motul 5w30 efe but this last oil change i went with liqui molly 5w30 instead. i have an oil cooler as well.

[@KeisukeXF]

Have you tried looking into a poor man's dry sump which is Accusump?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I haven’t put a whole lot of effort into looking at that. I’m hoping the aftermarket can solve these problems without having to add that.

[@miguelm3676]

I will follow your leads my friend Thanks.

[@ImpalaSS08]

It’s the asymmetrical oil pick up. The only fix is a dry sump.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I believe a new oil pan is in the works that should solve the problem but yes a dry sump is best!

[@mayyar]

It will be great if you can share the link for the parts you used, it will help big time. Thanks for the efforts 👍🏼

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Done!

[@mayyar]

@@phelpsgarage4202 Thanks 👍

[@artblackwood7936]

Another problem these things that they have is an issue with gravity + G-Force. With a vertical engine the oiling system will have more of a chance and tendency to dispense the circulating oil back into the sump. The horizontal engine could end up with pooling in the down-force direction. Long sweeping high G turns could be an issue. The 0W-20 and thinner grades was a political mandate. That can't be a good thing. I'm still on 0-20 and don't race "yet!" but switching to 5-30 no matter what.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I agree.

[@Dayota___]

Your voice reminds me of Nicholas Cage talking about cars 😂

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Lol thanks

[@Motorsportsgeek]

if only they put the 3cylinder from the Yaris/Corolla GR... That would make a perfect GR86 imo, enough of these boxer engines, leave it to porsche and even they have issues with them.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

That would make this car so much more fun!!

[@Shinigami_1320]

Are you considering to drop the oil pan to inspect the pick up tube?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I did twice and didn’t see anything the second time around

[@daintreetosea]

Build date would be good as reference

[@kevind_53]

Very well explain🚀

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Thank you!

[@jirace]

Larger/custom oil pan with a longer pickup tube or accusump.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I agree, but how do we extend the oil pickup

[@dfwbabydriver]

Popcorn 🍿 ready 😂… from what I’ve seen a baffle doesn’t even help

[@phelpsgarage4202]

It doesn’t solve the low oil pressure 100% but it does help.. I think a better oil pickup with a better plate and larger pan could be the ticket! 🙏🏻

[@shimmy1701]

Chuck that moustache in the pan as a rtv filter/baffle

[@phelpsgarage4202]

If I cut the mustache, I lose my powers..

[@shimmy1701]

@phelpsgarage4202 haha yeah shes got some street cred too 🫡

[@808touge]

Love the shirt!

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Great company

[@Tomas-x6f]

What about your gym schedule and plan? I’d like to see that lol

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Just curling jelly donuts!

[@Tomas-x6f]

@@phelpsgarage4202 I’m jealous

[@maxymillion7480]

Seems like in order to run a Subaru hard on track you need a dry sump.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah, but I think the aftermarket can solve this issue without having to buy a dry sump.. or get close enough 🤞🏻

[@billsouza4457]

I Have a first gen FA20 car I've' owned since new (2013 FRS). I love the new gen car but I'm not dropping $30,000 plus on a car with these issues. Major fail IMO.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah I feel ya.. hopefully the aftermarket can fix it

[@remissiveslave]

Really is a miracle subaru exists still. Never seem to design an engine that doesn't have oil related issues that f the engine upm

[@pawelkapica5363]

Can't believe Toyota started charging 10K more for this. Doesn't make it worth it anymore compared to other options, especially considering the issues.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah I agree.. it’s kinda silly

[@throker]

Has anyone heard of someone blowing their engine who was running an oil baffle? I know of several people that have blown their engine on track and none of them were running a baffle.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

That’s the million dollar question

[@BlackNAVYAmericanVET]

The manufacturer needs to fix this problem AT PRODUCTION NOW . not the customer.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Amen!!

[@bliglum]

The oil pressure regularly dropping from 60psi to 30 or even 20psi during right hand corners is no good.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Hell no

[@bliglum]

@@phelpsgarage4202 What can be done? Is there a way to dry sump an 86? If not, maybe a smartly designed, baffled pan??

[@phelpsgarage4202]

@@bliglum the aftermarket is working on on a better baffle plate and timing hold cover right now. Time will tell if it works. The way the oil pickup is designed is making it hard.

[@JeanCarlo5]

Thx Plepls Im gonna do your mustache😅

[@phelpsgarage4202]

You can play with it at Sebring

[@kgthegreatone943]

Oem oil cooler isn't that great plus 0w20 is to thin of an oil to use for the track

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I agree

[@hankiuyi]

I do agree X-w20 is not good.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah I don’t recommend it

[@coldvaper]

28psi of oil pressure while at full send....not good

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Nope!

[@1Solace]

Anyone ever use accusump or know if it will help?

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I don’t know of anyone but I would like to believe it would

[@practicaldriver]

I'm staying stock, if it blows subie can pay for it.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Not a bad idea

[@nofears76]

You need baffle on oil pan

[@phelpsgarage4202]

We have one.. next would a front timing hole cover

[@SmoOthOper8tors]

They could’ve just put the 3 cylinder in it but nooooo 😒 let’s partner with 💩ubaru

[@phelpsgarage4202]

That would be gangster!!

[@JimMcBeam]

5w30? :D oh man

[@phelpsgarage4202]

It’s what I used

[@ll.7927]

It’s a damn subie motor that’s why.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

😅

[@michaeljohn1160]

Technically, engine. Motor is electric. In Porsche forums, we coin the phrase “what do you expect, it’s a Porsche”. Is your point it’s only Subarus that have engine issues? All performance cars have engine issues. BMW, Porsche, Audi. Why are Japan model performance cars any different.

[@tonychau1983]

@@michaeljohn1160 motor is both gas and electric

[@clubtouge1052]

Just avoid subaru platform tbh 😭

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I wish it wasn’t so.. it’s a good track car

[@miketrudelle769]

Dude everything in this country sucks, wtf. Nothing last.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

I feel ya!

[@Seramics]

What a fail from Subaru. Its as if they are first-time making flat engines.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yeah it’s annoying

[@farizanariffin9677]

No music would be better

[@jayczyzyk9707]

these subaru engines are failure

[@Andy-dl5dx]

Flawed design again epic fail on Subaru

[@phelpsgarage4202]

Yep!

[@williamcricket7931]

K20 swap it, problem solved.

[@wayward03]

K24.....but yes.

[@williamcricket7931]

@@wayward03 too big

[@wayward03]

@@williamcricket7931 k20 would be a downgrade in performance.... People have put an LS under the hood, so I imagine the 24 would fit with some cutting

[@Pharaoh_The_Great]

Sr20 swap

[@impreza0109]

High center of gravity

[@kavalere]

Sounds like the engine was rushed into production.

[@phelpsgarage4202]

They should start testing on the track too