GR86 vs BRZ vs GT86 - Decisions, Decisions | Everyday Driver

[@90Duck]

That overhead view of the two cars meeting at the apex at 9:05 - brilliant shot!

[@EverydayDriver]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed!

[@Onewheelordeal]

@@EverydayDriver y'all need to Google about the 5252rpm torque/HP crossover that's a law of math

[@MajorAddiction]

@@EverydayDriver how many takes to pull off that timing?

[@Rob165x]

@@EverydayDriver Yeah, I noticed this was a shot that wasn’t much necessary but you guys went the extra mile to set it up. I’m loving these videos. I own a 22 BRZ and didn’t know the difference until now. I’m hoping ECU gets cracked soon, I want to tune closer to the GR and see what simple bolt ons will do.

[@Geforcepat]

This. was going to comment the same thing.

[@EngAbdalla82]

I saw a japanese video in youtube, they tested both brz and gr86 in track. the brz beats the gr86 and got better lap time. they explain the differences as follow: the brz is more stable and has better control which makes it better for time attack where the gr86 has faster throttle response and more over steer which makes it better for drifting.

[@richardhoulton4016]

I’ve seen other track comparisons where the BRZ was quicker, so I think it’s close enough that a track can suit one car more than the other.

[@richardhoulton4016]

@@dr.magnanimous8973 The Drift King is going to like a more tail happy car. It probably better suits his driving style.

[@DanielC.959]

It’s called buyers confirmation bias

[@subiesnacks8446]

Its the other way round. 86 is 1 second faster than the brz.

[@richardhoulton4016]

@@subiesnacks8446 Here yes, but not at every track

[@bobharper7014]

The 86/BRZ platform is a public service. Amazing that they exist at all. Smile 😊

[@fredysandoval7157]

A diamond in a world of poo

[@ak2112]

Went with the Subaru. Ease of ordering, price (no markup/add ons) and because early reports were that it was a little softer/quieter. Super happy with it.

[@soilent9618]

Had a 2016 BRZ, now have a 2022 BRZ. This thing is sooo much better as a daily. The seats are way more supportive and ergonomically correct and the suspension is way more compliant. I went with the BRZ for the same reasons as you and I do not regret it at all. Ordered exactly what I wanted, waited a few months, paid MSRP with no BS games or markup, drove away happy. Subaru FTW!

[@davidsky826]

@@soilent9618 where did you bought your subaru with no markups?

[@soilent9618]

@@davidsky826 Bryan Subaru in Metairie, LA.

[@tomcat_vf41]

Hey Ak! Is it true that if you order from Subaru, it will be made and shipped from Japan, as opposed to being on a waitlist with Toyota?

[@danielmedina5406]

Same here man. I also prefer the front of the brz over the GR. Recently added the sti front lip 🤙🏽

[@BigTanker134]

The shot @9:12 at the 180° turn with the cars coming opposite directions...... Awesome!

[@CaptDarnell]

The reason the power graphs look different is because the scales are different, not because the engine tuning differences result in the torque and power curves shifting in the RPM band and crossing at different points. Look at the relative magnitudes for torque and power at 7000 RPM on the two graphics. We know both cars make the same peak power at 7000 RPM. Since Power is Torque x Rotation speed, that means both cars are also making the same torque at 7000 RPM, but the Toyota's graph would lead you to believe it's making significantly more torque than the Subaru because the scales are different. If talking about power in horsepower and torque in lb-ft, the curves always cross at 5,252 RPM if you use the same Y axis scale for power and torque. If using power in kW and torque in N-m, the curves will always cross at 9,549 RPM if the Y axis scales are the same for torque and power. If the curves cross at some other RPM, it's because torque and power aren't being plotted on the same scale. The Toyota's torque scale starts at 100 N-m but their power scale starts at 0. Subaru's graphic doesn't have numbers on the Y axis, but based on the cross-over point at around 4,800 RPM and the and the relative magnitudes of the torque and power curves, my guess is that their torque and power scales both start at 0 and their power scale is 2x the torque scale. If one car feels peppier than the other, my guess is that it's due to a difference in throttle pedal calibration. Toyota may give more throttle opening earlier in the pedal. Or it's placebo effect.

[@richardhoulton4016]

Completely agree. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the engine tuning is virtually identical. The throttle maps are clearly different. I’ve had several cars with configurable throttle maps and the “perceived” effect can seem quite dramatic. It’s mostly an illusion though.

[@bc8Sooners]

Sounds reasonable to me, they already bought the GR86, confirmation bias.

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used. That they try to use the graphs to validate their subjective impressions is pathetic. Any actual difference is likely due to throttle tuning - as many have pointed out. Wish they’d just own up to their mistakes.

[@itsthemetho]

Toyota has acknolodge that they tweaked the throttle body response to be less linear. The GR86 seems more spirited than the BRZ due to more throttle from less accelerator pedal travel. Some people seem to like this and others complain on the track that it is harder to achieve the right partial throttle with the GR86. I have seen no evidence from Subaru and Toyota that the have seperate engine tunes. Noting the time and cost required to meet regulatory requirements, I doubt that the extra money would be spent on this. It is more probable that both Subaru and Toyota colaborated to tune this FA24D, especially noting the mix of Subaru and Toyota technologies on this engine.

[@jasoncampbell7765]

@@itsthemetho I believe it. A quick fix for BRZ owners would be to buy a Pedal Controller that can make the throttle less or more sensitive. Toyota GR86 and Subaru BRZ are both virtually identical besides an absolute minuscule level that no one would notice.

[@ja_]

HP = (TQ * RPM) / 5252 Since HP is a calculated figure derived from TQ, they will always cross at 5252rpm. If Subaru‘a graph shows otherwise, it is either not a legitimate representation of the curves or it represents alternative units (eg Nm and KW) that cross at a different rpm because the formula is different.

[@Onewheelordeal]

You sir are out here doing the good work. Crazy to be automotive "professionals" that don't know that basic law

[@Arunkumar-bg5xk]

Or the scale on the graphs are different in the 86. This was very weird on how they worded it.

[@NAUS2K]

This needs to be pinned. I was about to comment the same thing. Doesnt seem like EverydayDriver understands the relationship between the two

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used.

[@AR-ld8qd]

The drone shot of the cars going opposite directions was so cool!

[@acebrawler]

Just got the 86 and I’m in love.

[@bearclaw5115]

I really didn't know which to choose (aesthetically, I like bits of both). I didn't realize there was such a difference that I probably would have just bought whatever was available. I'm so glad you guys made this video!

[@denisdyck8800]

They are clearly justifying their purchase in this video. Don't fall for it. Purchase the one YOU like the most, not the one these guys are biased towards because they purchased one.

[@Blue-vd6bv]

​@@denisdyck8800They explain why each one is different there's really no biased in this review you're reaching

[@alphonsemonthei8878]

I don’t understand the comments about the torque and horsepower graphs crossing at different points. 5,252 is always the point in the rev range on a dyno where horsepower and torque will cross paths. Google it! So whatever you guys are saying makes no sense!

[@Onewheelordeal]

Thank you thank you thank you, I'm all over these comments trying to let ppl know

[@SmartDrug]

Came here to say this- something is amiss here.

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used. That they try to use the graphs to validate their subjective impressions is pathetic. Any actual difference is likely due to throttle tuning - as many have pointed out. Wish they’d just own up to their mistakes.

[@severe28]

@@datacipher Was thinking same. I kept wondering what was going on. My son has a 24 GR and I have a 23 BRZ. The power is identical. The only difference I felt was the throttle response was peakier down low on the GR where as in my BRZ it feels more linear. The handling feel is really splitting hairs.

[@dawsonjohannes613]

Going from my 2020 performance pack BRZ to a 2023 base GR86 very soon... I am so excited! Car gets to the port tomorrow. So glad since I've started my engineering career I have listened to all of your advice and enjoyed this platform, and completely owned up to having the disease.

[@dawsonjohannes613]

@Trizair Buy it. It is a better car in every measurable way... except fuel economy, but if you don't drive with a lead foot, you can get very decent fuel economy. I went from the top trimmed last MY 1st gen to a base 2nd gen and it feels every bit as refined inside, as well. And, finally, unplug the sound. Sounds fine under 4k, but wow, it's bad above that.

[@aroundomaha]

The green is sweet. I know Todd likes Skittle colors, but the dark green gets my vote for appearance. As an autocrosser I'd be curious to see a run down from that perspective between the 86 and BRZ. I suspect the difference would be minimal but it would be interesting. When placing an order in October 2021 there was no way to know how the two would separate their version. It came down to the Toyota dealer no having any information and Subaru being able to give me an order and ETA. With today's supply chain I suspect there is very little cross shopping via test drives. We all take our guess, order, and hope.

[@LoveMyZJ]

A good friend of mine ordered an identical BRZ in December and took delivery of it in June. Before it even left the dealership, he installed coilovers, a brembo big brake kit front and rear, unequal length header, full exhaust, short throw shifter and a few JDM bits (he's a Subaru master tech). As a former owner of a '13 BRZ Limited with a few mods, he let me drive it on some local twisty roads while he road in the passenger seat. You guys...oh my God, I drove that car as hard as I felt comfortable on a public road...I scared him a little bit. The whole time, the car remained DEAD stable and planted, very neutral in corners and the tires wouldn't even squeal...it just refused to let go. And you're absolutely right about the overall feel of these cars, that BRZ felt so much more solid and "finished" than my '13 BRZ did. second-generation

[@milesfathi]

Always enjoy the refreshing perspective you two have on cars that literally every youtube channel gets to drive. The difference in ECU tuning is fascinating.

[@JttM199]

I didn’t know the ecu tuning difference existed honestly. I personally haven’t seen that anymore until now and I did google it and found an article from the drive where Subarus planning manager said they had different ecu tunes

[@jmm1174]

@@JttM199 Very interesting

[@khrizangel02001]

Yes my brz feels completely different from my dads gr86.

[@shakethedrummer2351]

Thank you so much for your videos and your channel. Whenever i consider cancelling my pre-orders here in Australia, i watch your videos and im reminded why i love driving and my enjoyment of sports cars. I look forward to my GR86 arriving in March 2023. Thank you

[@Golas23rd]

Congrats on a year of ownership! How does it ride on our roads?

[@shakethedrummer2351]

@Golas23rd ended up with a BRZ. Its amazing fun to drive at al speeds. I dont need more power. The road and tyre noise is quite loud on the highway...

[@SomethingNewAMBW]

how ironic, all of my car options that I'm considering being reviewed in one video! this is great! thank you guys

[@jmf_5]

First of all, I loved this comparison - very thorough and nuanced. There's a funny moment at 12:40 when Todd says "on the right canyon road, you may never need to brake" and almost immediately at 12:47 there's a shot of car's brake lights flashing :). I didn't know if you planned that intentionally.

[@mikea5205]

I ended up buying a 23' BRZ even thought I prefer the look of the GR...mostly because I had a horrific experience at the Toyota dealer and a very pleasant experience at my local Subaru dealer.

[@banjo-boy-montreal126]

A 20k "market adjustment" will do that to you.

[@davey9090]

have 2023s started shipping out? mine arrives in November

[@mikea5205]

@@davey9090 - i havnt heard anything yet.

[@Rob165x]

Buy the duckbill if you want. I’ve seen it for $400-500 and you can install it yourself. Thing is I’ve only seen red, black & white. I went with black on my sapphire, think it looks cool and the car kinda needs it. The front…well I think you’ll warm up to it. I did, it’s not bad at all in person, tbh I like the shape of the vents and the bottom lip on the Subaru more, I’ll probably get a mesh grill when available, but the little shark teeth is a nice touch. Both are good looking cars. And suspension can be changed, ECU will take a bit of time it seems. Also the front plate on the Subaru is in worse place me thinks, mesh seems cleaner.

[@brz.oph1]

@@davey9090 ordered mine in April. My 2023 brz will be here next month

[@CHRoNo-ky6yz]

What a beautifully videod episode , great shots,creative angles. This video boys is a work of art, one of your best!

[@Rob165x]

IKR, their videos are among the best GR/BRZ videos. I think the one that competes is the hagerty GR one, but this one kinda packs more information and the hagerty has more fun driving (180 drive off, and lots of drifts) and funny moments.

[@andrewm5840]

I’ve been WAITING for this comparison. Thank you so much E.D.

[@tonythemedtravels]

I finally picked up my own GR86 Premium, manual, in Neptune Blue yesterday. First car I ever bought, and I love being in it so much!

[@Rob165x]

The best part is getting out of the gym, full of adrenaline and driving it hard and getting those perfect clutch catches and drifts on street turns. It’s so much fun. I own a sapphire BRZ with a black ducktail.

[@Dreznin]

Grats on the first car purchase! I'm at the front of the waitlist at my local Toyota dealership and they have me down to reserve the Special Edition that's supposed to be here in fall, but I'll admit - they can tempt me with that Neptune Blue... Of the available colors, you definitely chose the best one!

[@G_P_G]

@@Dreznin what is the special edition? that's news to me

[@Dreznin]

@@G_P_G It's a 860-unit 10th Anniversary trim. It's a GR86 Premium, but with forged wheels, the GR exhaust system, and an orange paint that is exclusive to it. Raiti's Rides did a walk-around of it when it was unveiled back in June if you want to see it - Toyota also has it on their site, but it's still in their "Upcoming Models" section since it comes out in the fall.

[@itstartswithcars]

HP and Torque always cross at 5,252 RPM so I am not sure what is meant that they cross at earlier or later points.

[@datacipher]

The problem is that these two doorknobs didn’t notice that the subaru doesn’t have the y axis scale, so they misinterpret it as showing a different crossover point. They don’t really understand torque, hp, and what the graphs show. So, they think the graphs show a difference- instead of most likely being scaled differently, and then they claim that backs up their subjective impression of a difference. It doesn’t back them up, and even if their impression is correct, it could easily be differences in throttle tuning - in fact that’s much more likely.

[@JohnnyCBarrett]

Great report. Ya made me think, maybe I made a mistake ordering a BRZ, BUT I am 66 with replacement knees and a back held together with titanium. I ordered a stick, so the added sophistication of the Subaru will be welcome. I get amused by BRZ owners who look down in the Subaru.

[@barusuuu]

the hakone color combo is honestly sweet af

[@EverydayDriver]

In this comparison, Todd discusses the crossover of Torque and Horsepower as a changeable / movable thing. We know it is a fixed reality in engines. His comments are intended to relate the difference in feel between the two cars power delivery. However, it's a mistake we regret. Thanks for watching and point it out to us.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

As a 1st gen owner, I really appreciated your back to back comparison of the 1st generations on track, back in 2012 or 2013. The differences between the setups of the cars, though subtle, are there, and I'm so happy you've done it again for the second generation. I wasn't sure which one I would like more in the second generation (can't drive them without deposits locally), but your comments make it pretty clear: the 86 has more energy, which is what I want in a driver's car. ....now the real question: the brand new GR86 or a used 987 Cayman? I have a feeling you'll be addressing this in a future video!

[@Carlos.Rivera]

Cayman, that should not be questioned

[@patrickbateman7122]

@@Carlos.Rivera haha as a past owner of BRZ and GT86 i would rather have a cayman any day of the week 🤣🤣

[@phattyhales]

@@patrickbateman7122 As a former 987 Boxster owner, former 2013 BRZ owner, and current 996 owner, I will say the new car is pretty freaking great. But yeah, difficult choice for sure. Early 86/BRZ vs 987 I chose 987 all day. The new GR86 though? That's a more interesting comparison.

[@patrickbateman7122]

@@phattyhales tbf i haven't driven a GR86, they sold out in 30 mins here in uk but someone can get me a test drive although i can't buy one 🤦‍♂️ will be interesting to see if its the car i always wanted it to be but i have doubts. I just don't think flat 4s make good sports car engines..

[@bfife22]

If you can afford the maintenance on a Cayman I can't imagine the GR86 being more enjoyable. But I can't, so GR86 for me lol

[@Andrew-zs5tc]

Thanks for your detailed explanation of the differences. The GR86 is not necessarily the better car. It is better for the two of you based on your preferences. While I agree that the GR is the better car for the two of you, your detailed explanation of the differences helped me decide that the BRZ is the better car for me. I have put down a deposit on a BRZ, based in part, on your reviews.

[@gryphon123456]

I love them all. Interesting to see they’ve actually put some thought into the feel and didn’t just slap the parts together. I will say though…. I like the front of the first gen just a bit more. It looks sharper to me. I think it’s the more horizontal approach. Looks are subjective of course.

[@drakelussenden3694]

I’m sure there will be a conversion soon enough lol

[@richardhoulton4016]

I’m confused. “Nice to see such a broad difference”, and “if we’d driven the BRZ first we wouldn’t have bought it”. And in the next breath but “the level of nuance we are talking about…”. I get the suspension differences, but I wonder if the actual engine difference between the two is primarily throttle mapping? That can certainly make a car feel more urgent.

[@EverydayDriver]

As mentioned specifically in the film, Paul thought there was a bigger difference in the cars than Todd did, so you’re comparing two different peoples assessment. And the power difference noted was apparent at partial or full throttle, the BRZ feeling a bit more labored than the 86, and more similar to the first Gen. Thanks for watching.

[@stustewart2073]

@@EverydayDriver Here's a thought. Race them against each other.

[@richardhoulton4016]

@@EverydayDriver I’ve haven’t driven the GR86 yet (it is still to be released here) but I have driven a 2014, 2017, and 2022 BRZ and the new FA24 doesn’t remind me of the old FA20 very much at all. It feels a lot more refined and less gravelly and doesn’t sound like it hates being revved (unlike the FA20). The BRZ’s FA24 still has the slightest dip and you can just feel it in line with actual dashboard graph but the moment it crosses the Power curve (which in 2nd feels like half a second or less later) it takes off all the way to cutout. There is zero sensation of “falling in a hole” like you get with the FA20. With respect to the new BRZ’s suspension compared with the old one, there’s a fair bit more supplenesses to it which makes it less of a handful on bumpy backroads and a bit more liveable around town. It feels a bit like the old BRZ with a dash of ND MX5/Miata and way more structural stiffness than both of them. I think it’s an improvement. The new BRZ still works great on track out of the box too.

[@jmm1174]

@@EverydayDriver Interesting! You are the first reviewers that noticed that engine tunning difference 👍

[@ak2112]

​@@EverydayDriver The difference is throttle tuning. You guys should know this.

[@kurtstephan7039]

👏👏👏For the shot at the 9:05 mark.

[@eugenegutierrez5106]

This boxer engine are so good on long distance driving. I don’t feel fatigued at all. I’ve driven 2000 miles for 19 hrs straight I wasn’t even exhausted when I got to my destination.

[@kevinryan2992]

The differences sound like some pretty heavy confirmation bias tbh lol

[@boldcitycc]

My son who has a 23 BRZ recently visited me, and he’s rarely going to concede anything, but the first time he got on it he immediately said that my GR 86 feels faster. The torque/ HP graph diff surprised me. There May actually be something to it. My opinion prior to seeing that, was that even these guys “fell” for the trickery of how Toyota putting most of the throttle in the first third of the pedal (which honestly I’m not so sure I like) . As it feels like it goes so willingly with little throttle. But the trickery there, is that the rest of the pedal, there isn’t much there. But if that curve showing the torque flattening out quicker in the BRZ , while the GR86 rises further may be creating a true feeling vs just trickery, or a combination of both.. What do you guys think??

[@metalmystic6214]

⁠@@boldcitycc The BRZ has a much more linear throttle curve, which is preferable to anyone who actually likes canyon running or taking the car on track. Toyota put all the throttle response in the first 43% of pedal travel and it just completely dies after that. Terrible tuning to make the car seem faster to people who are easily fooled. It has no place an enthusiast car and is more suited to a base Corolla.

[@kleinbottled79]

Horsepower and torque always cross at the same number given the same units. In horsepower and lbs/ft they cross at 5252.

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used.

[@Scott-mu4xw]

The styling of the GR86 is what made me buy one.

[@savageaf1943]

looks good specially in person....brz kinda has smiling look

[@AGZTGAMING]

Was it worth it? Any issues so far?

[@Scott-mu4xw]

@@AGZTGAMING I ended up trading it in, the car is amazing and so much fun to drive, it just doesn’t offer much room. I bought a 2022 Mazda3 Turbo. Having the extra room has been great plus the overall ride quality of the 3 is way better, but it’s a different beast.

[@AGZTGAMING]

@@Scott-mu4xw awesome good to hear but did it cause any rtv issues while you had it?

[@jay18394]

It's not mathematically possible to move where horsepower and torque cross. HP = (TQ x RPM)/5252. So it HAS to cross at 5252. You guys are feeling throttle mapping differences, not "torque crossover differences".

[@EverydayDriver]

Yes. We are focused on feel, as you mentioned, and that’s what being described. But, it should not have been stated as a moving the crossover because it defies what’s actually possible. We regret it, and sadly, KZbin is forever. Thanks for watching!

[@dirtsailoroff-road5580]

Thanks for everyone who worked on this videos. Great camera work. I would love to see these guys do some track battles or review a challenger

[@isaacmagana7078]

Have you heard of the Silicone issue affecting the 2022 BRZ, 86, and WRX ? I would like to hear your thoughts on that matter. My car is actually an affected car and have seen silicone on the oil dipstick and there are plenty of other people online now talking about this on forums and uploading videos of them looking into their oil pick up tube.

[@EverydayDriver]

This was filmed before the recent online discussion of the RTV issue. We’re sorry to hear you are affected. We have discussed it on our podcast and will continue to as it develops but so far the online coverage makes it seem guaranteed, while the number of cases is small. Of course we will be following along, but also driving our car. Thanks for watching.

[@isaacmagana7078]

@@EverydayDriver I appreciate the response! Is there a link to your podcasts by chance?

[@phattyhales]

@@isaacmagana7078 the podcast can be found in whatever podcast outlet you prefer to listen through.

[@isaacmagana7078]

@@phattyhales awesome thanks !

[@jmm1174]

That is terrible, silicon on the oil😲. I had an old '80s car's engine destroyed because on a rebuild the mechanic was careless with the silicon application on the engine heads.

[@harris7963]

Are you guys concerned about the RTV sealant issue? Hopefully Toyota/Subaru can address this before the engine possibly dies from oil starvation.

[@phattyhales]

Todd and Paul recently discussed this on a podcast episode.

[@harris7963]

@@phattyhales oh nice, will check it out. Thanks!

[@hoopofficial4371]

@@harris7963 I will save u some time. Basically said they will just drive it and deal with it if it occurs. In Toyota they trust.

[@deniscdyck]

@@hoopofficial4371 except Toyota will turn their channel / internet presence upside-down until they find one instance of high reving the car to deny any warranty claim.

[@phattyhales]

@@deniscdyck That was a dealer that denied that one claim that made it all over the internet. Toyota has since investigated the incident and overturned that dealer-denied claim and are honoring the warranty anyway.

[@d.nakamura9579]

Man, I have to say that the production values of your videos are really high. Super sharp and professionally done.

[@EverydayDriver]

Glad you like what we do and we greatly appreciate you watching!

[@4Kandlez]

So if you gave the BRZ the same ECU map as the GT86 you'd have the same responsiveness and the better chassis with lighter steering?

[@silvenshadow]

This is the video that needed to be made. Thank you so much for getting all these cars together and sharing your thoughts. Cheers!

[@jamesvermillion5151]

As of your posting, I'm very happy with 10 y.o. 1st gen. FRS. I truly appreciate the way you both refer back to the gen 1 cars. Mine has seen the road course a few times and looking forward to a few more times. Back in the day, with my '68 Coronet 440 R/T, I did live 1/4 quarter mile at a time. The problem was that started riding motorcycles, to which Muscle can hardly compete. Had this affordable design been around at that point in time, I might be a retire Race Car Driver. It would be nice to drive the canyon roads that you show, but I'd be happy to run US 129 in TN with you and talk about fun.

[@inomad]

I had a 2013 FRS. I saw a GR86 last night. Now I want one again.

[@moldyrefrigerator]

I rented a GR86 on Turo. It’s much faster much a stock FRS. Has 45 whp more than previous gen had (170whp vs. 215whp). My modded FRS has full exhaust, tune, and e85 and the GR86 stock is still faster. Infact I just saw a video of a 2022 BRZ beating the new 2022 WRX in a drag race, and the WRX has the same engine with a turbo (and more weight). Second-gen cars are officially not slow anymore.

[@deej628]

@@moldyrefrigerator same here with the frs. I was stage 2 but it was an automatic and I always felt it’d be more fun in manual. I want a Neptune premium manual next time around hold the extra rtv please.

[@humboldtef]

Great comparison, Thanks for the push to go buy one! Only 500 more miles to go till its broken in and I can fully explore the limits.

[@rp20832]

Torque crossover curve, at different positions. Come again? They cross at 5252 rpm. Universally. One is a function of the other. So the graph is just a graph, and the axis may not match, but the actual real life curved should cross at 5252rpm, right?

[@datacipher]

Yes. The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used. That they try to use the graphs to validate their subjective impressions is pathetic. Any actual difference is likely due to throttle tuning - as many have pointed out. Wish they’d just own up to their mistakes.

[@Pharaoh_The_Great]

I prefer the frs because of the better steering, lighter, cheaper and more readily available aftermarket support.

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Good back to back gentleman. I am glad to see someone shared with us why they are different. Now to go drive em. (:

[@rohitagarwal329]

Can you guys please investigate the excess silicone sealant breaking off into the engine oil, clogging the oil pickup and causing engine failure in GR86s?

[@phattyhales]

There’s not much to investigate about it on our end.

[@hoopofficial4371]

@@phattyhales well if they own the car… isn’t that reason enough to investigate it. Hmmm, perhaps drop the pan and see what’s going on especially after the cross country trip.

[@deej628]

Wondering the same. I really want one but this worries me. Not sure if it’s big enough to warrant a recall or not.

[@phattyhales]

@@hoopofficial4371 Toyota knows about the problem and are honoring warranties over it. It was a dealer that caused the problems that were all over the news. No car is without fault, some a re bigger deals than others, but worrying about one that may or may not happen is pointless. Todd and Paul also talked about this more in depth in a recent podcast episode if you want their take.

[@hoopofficial4371]

@@phattyhales good to know. I typically just watch their KZbin stuff. Still, this is an issue that would probably get clicks here. Yes, all cars have issues but most don’t have the issue that blowup engines. This issue made me do a hard stop on a purchase. Subaru and their lubrication issues. 🙄

[@MooseTvGaming]

drove both.. they're ABSOLUTLEY DRASTICALLY OVEREXAGGERATING about the differences between the power. watch them even race in a straight line its essentially equal.

[@Onewheelordeal]

Thank you for your sanity. They repeatedly state they've moved the torque/HP crossover when every freshman engineer can tell you it has to be 5252rpm for all engines ever

[@ribbles1699]

The BRZ is actually a little faster. The difference in tunes is obvious if the graph can be trusted, but yes they worded it poorly. Same crossover, different curves.

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used. That they try to use the graphs to validate their subjective impressions is pathetic. Any actual difference is likely due to throttle tuning - as many have pointed out. Wish they’d just own up to their mistakes.

[@skip741x3]

I happen to like the look of the BRZ much more so than the gr86 ..its nose looks way nicer with its vents and inlets vs the gr86...to each his, own

[@r.j.bedore9884]

So it sounds like you should buy the BRZ for the better suspension, then take it to your local Toyota dealer and have them disable the fake engine sound generator and reflash the ECU with the GR86 tune. This will give you the best dynamics of both cars. Then, depending on how you feel about the looks, you either live with the Subaru's front bumper and lack of rear spoiler, buy an aftermarket bumper and spoiler, or try to fit the Toyota front bumper and rear duck bill spoiler and paint them to match. Problem solved!

[@bigworldparty]

Personal preference, but I'm not a fan of either the small or extended duckbill spoiler on either vehicle. That element of the design has not grown on me at all. Hoping there will be some other spoiler options down the road. I still think overall the first gen BRZ was a better looking vehicle, and the second gen they started throwing on more garish items to jazz it up such as the odd side rocker fin things. Those have at least grown on me a bit. The loss of the round tail lights though, I am shedding a tear, lol.

[@ruturaj47]

I went BRZ route because of markups on GR86. I am planning to put on every STI accessories that come out that improves handling starting with flexible v bar. Not going to do any engine related mods for warranty period but I assume the response would be fixed with a tune.

[@TUGRA14]

May I ask which add ons have you done? I’m looking to order one very soon. I was just thinking the same thing. I Tune any car I drive except my tesla so Subaru seems to work better for me.

[@ruturaj47]

@@TUGRA14 I went for short throw shifter, sti knob, footwell illumination kit, auto dimming mirror, cargo tray, all weather mat in my order. After that I have installed spare tire on the car.

[@bb120308]

1st Gen Subaru BRZ owner here. Okay it's more like Gen 1.5 because it's a 2019 after they updated the engine in 2017 if I'm not mistaken. What is sounds like is that the 1st Gen Toyobaru Twins (R.I.P FRS) are Windows Vista and the 2nd Gen Subayota twins are Windows 7.

[@Gweeper64]

I wonder if it would be possible to flash the Toyota ECU tune to the BRZ?

[@mojostevo]

I was wondering the same thing.

[@Onewheelordeal]

I dare you to try and flash any tune on any engine where the horsepower and torque don't cross over at 5252RPM I'll save ya some time, it's impossible

[@ribbles1699]

@@Onewheelordeal they worded it poorly. Doesn't change the fact that the tunes are very different.

[@youknowme...1840]

Boxer engine often has an oil leak. It costs $2000 to fix it in Japan. Some people paid $4500 for engine trouble. Subaru doesn't sell much in Japan because it takes time and money a lot after all.

[@thegroundhurts]

You guys do know that torque always crosses HP at 5252rpm due to the formula used to calculate HP being-Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252. Likely the scaling of the graphs is different or you are dealing with some display tomfoolery.

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used.

[@MrSongib]

This kind of car about Balance in Money, Performance, Power and Fun is so rare these day. I'm kinda glad we have this two.

[@sshhddoo9892]

That shot at 9:05 is so good!

[@CruiseControl1]

I own a 2022 Neptune Blue GR86 and love driving it everyday, I find reasons to just go for a drive.

[@williebrown1974]

I hope they do the rtv recall done asap.

[@Rob165x]

Same. I have 5300 miles and I haven’t checked mines and there’s quite a few times I drive it hard or semi-hard [giggidy]. Thing is this my first manual and I know the engine feels different cold so I don’t know what signs of oil deprivation would be like.

[@7yle]

Not sure what's going on with the "Crossover" on the little graph at 11:30. The crossover between HP and Torque is always at 5252 RPM - it's in the HP equation. Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252. Seems like the little display is just a gimmick.

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used. The fact the hosts don’t understand that and try to use it to justify their subjective impression is pretty pathetic. Any actual difference is likely throttle tuning.

[@Paul-ez1mj]

Great job guys!! Another quality video and honest critique of the cars driven!! Travis's Dad (learning to drive manual)

[@jmm1174]

Its the first time that any reviewer points out that the tunning of the engine on the BRZ and GR86 are different, and that the Toyota 86 gr performs better than the Subaru BRZ in this aspect. Most of the reviewers only point out that the only difference were in the suspension components, and that one of them was arriving to the tests with DOT 4 synthetic brake fluid to better withstand the track abuse.

[@jjchockey]

When they first came out I was 100% team GR86 for looks. The BRZ has grown on me sooo much. It looks more sleek and mature, the 86 is starting to look tacky imo. Can’t go wrong with either.

[@deniscdyck]

Same here. That ginormous half fake grill is getting old very quick to my taste. At first I liked the GR86's looks better but now the BRZ's friendly smile is winning me over.

[@ribbles1699]

Agreed - just in the few months I've been seriously shopping both cars, the 86 front end has already started aging badly to my eyes. I always thought the "dimples" on the BRZ looked better than the inlets on the 86, and I see the smile more as an evil grin anyway. Probably due to previously owning an ecstatically happy 2010 MS3.

[@Rob165x]

I own the BRZ and hear all this hype about the GR grill, but in person, I like the BRZ vent shape more and I like the bottom lip on the BRZ more. And the shark fins on the grill make it a little more aggressive than otherwise. If anything I’ll consider a mesh option if it releases, but I think the bigger grill on the GR changes the hood line a little too much, it makes it feel more 90’s JDM, yes, but we’re not in the 90’s lol. I think changing the bumper to the GR one is too much a stretch. Suspension & eventually ECU tuning will make these mechanically identical. And I already got the duckbill. Btw…I don’t think the fog lights fit on the GR86 😬 I think those are cool.

[@alexandram9477]

I'm happy with the BRZ grill, it has more character, the GR86 looks more common and the vents look like a design from all the other econo Toyotas. I person the BRZ front looks wider and lower, a bit weird maybe but I'll take weird over normal!

[@brokentradgedy]

GR86 looks way better than the BRZ and this is coming from a Civic Si owner.....The front end of the GR86 looks way more aggressive

[@VRJacky]

The gr86 had a 6 month waitlist when i bought mine, the brz i picked up 5 days later, comingg from a diesel ute the brz is so fast

[@boost331]

Whats crazy is that every measured performance test shows the BRZ to be faster. In a straight line, around a track, whatever, the BRZ consistently comes in a few ticks quicker.

[@danger_technical]

That's just not true

[@boost331]

@@danger_technical Motortrend, Car and Driver, Road and Track as well as a Japanese media day all showed that. I am talking with the same professional driver in the same car. Not just random car reviewers. If you can provide a source that says otherwise I would love to check it out.

[@danger_technical]

@@boost331 From that Motortrend comparison test: Despite the identical power, weight, and tire offerings of each, the Toyota GR86 just edged out the BRZ at the test track, posting higher grip on the skidpad (0.98 g vs. 0.93) and reaching 60 mph 0.1 second quicker, in 5.8 seconds. On our figure-eight course, the GR86 was a full second quicker. Providing a hint of its stiffer front end, the Subaru stopped from 60 mph 1 foot shorter than the Toyota, in a solid 107 feet, its only objective dynamic win over the GR86

[@boost331]

@@danger_technical I stand corrected on that one..!! I know for sure it has been the opposite results as well in other publications. Several say the brz will grip when the 86 wants to slip. My thought is that your averaged buyer\driver would never know the difference.

[@danger_technical]

@@boost331 I admire that you're sticking with your points. You're right that most people won't ever know the difference and that's totally fine. But you're either misreading or unable to understand correctly. This is from Car and Driver's 2022 Toyota GR86 Premium at Lightning Lap 2022 article "But on the track, we couldn't tell the difference between it and the BRZ; they exhibit the exact same behavior. Same sharp steering. Same nimbleness. Same tendency to engage in sexy opposite-lock tail slides. But not the same lap time. The GR86 is 0.6 second quicker, with 0.4 second of its advantage coming in the sector that includes the tight bends of Oak Tree and Bitch and the long back straight. Around the rest of the lap, it trades tiny increments of time and speed back and forth with the Subaru."

[@invertedv12powerhouse77]

you guys are my favourite car reviewers, good shots, always in depth with the little details and really good at vocalizing and getting your point across that's easy to understand. Keep up the good work! That overhead shot with the 2 cars driving by was satisfying how coordinated you guys were

[@EverydayDriver]

Thank you for your kind words and generous support! We're glad that our efforts resonate with you, and we're thankful to have you watching!

[@invertedv12powerhouse77]

Just traded my 2018 brz for a neptune blue gr86. Took two years to get it in this colour. Hoping to make it a forever car, your video here was what sold me the most on it and i dont regret it. ​@@EverydayDriver

[@SuperThatguylol]

My choice is the BRZ 2023 Limited as my new daily driver. I prefer the suspension from what I've heard, the idea that the same motor makes more power for Toyota is obviously a tune or something that can be overcome. Can't wait for my new car :D!!!! Also I can actually get a BRZ good luck with a GR.

[@openscholar9908]

I really like how the new BRZ looks.

[@oogalee]

11:30 Interesting how the engine is tuned differently on the BRZ and GR86. I don' think any other channel picked up on that.

[@richardhoulton4016]

I don’t think they are tuned very differently (and there are some very good reasons why they wouldn’t be). I think it’s 95% (at least) throttle mapping giving the illusion of a more hyperactive response. Toyota actually published a diagram of the changes they did to throttle mapping and it’s significantly less linear than the BRZ’s map. These guys have been fooled by the more aggressive map. I think there’s bugger all difference in tuning.

[@koendeleersnijder]

That dark green looks amazing on the old one

[@chriswnek8485]

When the first gen cars came out, people who I autocrossed with went for the Scion. They cited the fact that the Subaru warranty language explicitly voided coverage for cars used in competition, and the Scion warranty did not. Is this still true? (Or was it ever?)

[@strmshadow8411]

No manufacture warranty covers the vehicles being used in competition i.e. timed events.

[@jmm1174]

@@strmshadow8411 GM does it with the V8 Camaros and Corvette, also I believe Hyunday on their N models.

[@jmm1174]

And what about the Toyota besides the Scion?

[@strmshadow8411]

@@jmm1174 No, most will cover autocross etc, but don't cover stuff like time attacks. Once you get into the competition scene they stop coverage.

[@trentmckenzie343]

Never owned a sports car, so as a complete noob, could you recommend this as a daily driver to someone who isn’t looking for performance? I just want the looks and the fuel economy (and the price) of the Subaru BRZ.

[@EverydayDriver]

There are other strong choices if fuel economy and styling are primary (consider the Mazda 3 or even the newly redesigned Prius). But the BRZ would be an excellent daily commuter. Keep in mind it’s designed to be involving, so make sure you get a test drive. Thanks for watching!

[@trentmckenzie343]

@@EverydayDriver That’s just the thing, I’m looking for something practical, yet engaging. Never driven manual, but I want to learn! Unfortunately, no dealers near me have anything with a manual other than muscle cars and sports cars.

[@Vashed555]

I’m typing this as a very longtime fan of the channel - I’ve put some tremendous consideration into this remark, so please consider that before dismissing me out of hand. I do not understand the content this video, and I think it misses the mark of what you’re attempting to do. I say this for multiple reasons - If this is a review, it is too gushing and self-aggrandizing. If this is a buyers guide/love letter, (ala Savagegeese’s ‘S2000 In Memorium) then it should be more clear about what this is. From the perspective of poor framing, it fails at both. If I examine this critically from the eye of a review, then it could be the most masturbatory review on this channel. If it’s a guide, then it’s fair, but it’s too much of a critique of the BRZ to be that. Im concerned that your purchase of a GT86 and clear enthusiasm for that car in this video is now going to shade all future videos and podcasts going forward. For example - Todd, in his matter of fact way, goes into reviewer mode with his choice of dialogue on the cars which sets a tone. Paul, doing the opposite, conflicts with Todd’s tone, and gushes about the car to the point of the viewer’s confusion. I still don’t know what this video is. Take this as constructive criticism. I enjoy your posts, videos, and podcasts, but lately the videos have been somewhat out of touch and too far into the realm of self-aggrandizement when it comes to the vehicles. Please take a brief census of other channels to compare content. 👍

[@EverydayDriver]

We appreciate you sharing your perspective on this piece. Yes, Paul gets quite gushing in this film. But as you noticed, Todd has a different take. That’s been true since the start of our channel - two reviewers offering different perspectives. Theoretically it allows the viewer to form an opinion based on on the two. That doesn’t mean it always works. But notice that Todd even comments on Paul’s assessment, stating that Paul is overstating the differences. And the entire closing focuses on how close (and good) these cars are and the nuances being debated here. (Including that Paul prefers the BRZ steering). Having said all, thank you for watching and taking the time to give you take aways. Noted. Glad to have you with us!

[@danielcoleman248]

I call bullshit. An aftermarket tune costs bugger all and will improve on both stock tunes. Suspension can also be lightly adjusted to align them. I'd rather have the dealership not rip me off on day one by voiding my warranty with a complimentary track day. The only difference here is aesthetics, and disagreeing with a hundred other "reviewers' makes me thing you are just trying to justify your own purchase. Granted the Toyota looks better, but for very little money, that can be fixed.

[@troynewton5833]

In Australia the highest spec GR86 in manual is approximately 11% more expensive than the equivalent spec manual BRZ Here Toyota is pricing its manual and automatic the same. Pricing for the automatics here, GR86 vs BRZ is negligible. We also aren't being offered the extended ducktail as standard on the top spec GR86 but do get a no cost interior option of red stitching, carpets and door trims. Would be interesting to know if the 11% Toyota tax would change the reviewers opinions.

[@michaelh.9866]

Great comparison, guys!

[@timothye5936]

We need a gen2 hakone edition with a couple TRD performance mods added in !

[@eugenegutierrez5106]

Love the forest green color with that bronze combo!!

[@sameerpandya1947]

Great vid...it would be cool if you guys would be willing to drop the oil pan on your GR86 and check for silicone as part of your ownership experience.

[@Nick-xf8pn]

The Subaru torque and horsepower graph has no numbers to show scale. The GR86 has a different scale for horsepower versus torque, and the numbers are right there to see. If you were to modify the horsepower scale of either graph, you could make it look identical to the other graph. You're not witnessing an intersecting horsepower and torque difference, your witnessing a chart crime.

[@bfife22]

I think the OEM ducktail in black would help tie in the black chin the BRZ has, otherwise it just looks so out of place with the body colored mirrors and non-black wheels

[@Rob165x]

I have the black ducktail on a Sapphire BRZ, it does look very good. These cars should have had the spoiler from factory, it looks so much better.

[@bfife22]

@@Rob165x Yeah Toyotas allocation process is making me more and more likely to end up with a Sapphire BRZ this gen. I have a 2013 BRZ in Galaxy Blue but prefer the GR86 this gen. But the darker blue looks so good on these cars, I can't imagine changing colors to anything else

[@SreySongz]

At 14:30, the analysis of the driving experience reminds me very much of how the ap2 s2000 was tuned more for comfort than the ap1 which was a more aggressive driving experience. BRZ ≈ AP2 S2000 GR86 ≈ AP1 S2000

[@strebrr]

11:34 I thought torque and horsepower always meet at 5252rpm? I'm confused now.

[@odetteavalon]

I was waiting for the mention of the AWD comparison . . .

[@tractioncontroloff9796]

The only fun Subaru they make. The rest of their lineup is made for getting Darlene to softball tournaments.

[@lifeofreilly9943]

😂

[@mtlsi]

Thank you, great comparison and very interesting conclusion.

[@CSHracer]

I'm EXTREMELY skeptical that the "ECU Tune" is any different between the two. And likely any true differences are simply changes in throttle mapping. If you truly thought the GR was NOTICABLY faster, I'd like to see some drag races, some 0-60 times, 1/4 miles times, etc.

[@phattyhales]

It's not that one is faster than the other, the power band is just different. Both companies have very publicly said they each tuned the cars independently from each other.

[@JttM199]

I believe on paper the brz is technically slightly faster according to magazine tests. As someone who has yet to drive either yet I believe one could feel “faster” even if it’s not depending on the tune

[@stustewart2073]

With all the time spent telling us the GR86 was faster they should've raced the two side by side.

[@CSHracer]

@@stustewart2073 exactly.. because this is the first time I've heard such definitive and concise claims about the GR being so noticeably fast. If there is any truth to their claims I'm guessing it's more likely a variance in their cars than an actual trend.

[@CSHracer]

@@phattyhales yeah, I'm aware, I just don't believe it. With the amount of time spent needing to verify tunes for all climates, conditions, etc and be reliable to OEM standards, I'm extremely skeptical that the tuning is any different and any felt differences comes down to throttle mapping.

[@maxcactus7]

Fantastic video, gentlemen!! I desperately want one of the new GR86es in Hakone Green with the bronze wheels and tan interior! Please, PLEASE Toyota, in Hakone green!

[@jaredfaidley8391]

Fascinating that the differences are so discernable!

[@DanielC.959]

They are not.

[@alexrain1188]

I had an FR-S for 10 years before trading in for a GR86. The GR86 is a substantial improvement over the first Gen. however, I admit that the first Gen was more fun. That paradox of “working hard” for that speed is something the second one doesn’t really have.

[@mg141au]

This production is right up there. Well done, guys. What a great content here.

[@EverydayDriver]

Thank you. We appreciate you watching!

[@wtfchazpwnt]

So glad these cars exist!

[@dhj-i8g]

Excellent video! Very interesting to know the differences are more pronounced than in the first gen! And as others have noted, the editing and camera work is superb!

[@novakillbones2140]

Sorry, but I drove the GR86 last Friday and the BRZ on Monday and I noticed none of this. Both cars feel significantly different than my current MY17 BRZ but no different from one another. Of course, if you want your BRZ's engine to feel like a GR86, just get it tuned at Toyota.

[@alexandram9477]

lost a lot of respect for these guys w/ their bs on the torque curve having different crossover points

[@shawnskates]

When you're about to decide and they come out with a video so you can change your mind.

[@hoopofficial4371]

But…. At least you can spec out and order a BRZ. Toyota allocation process is ridiculous.

[@shawnskates]

@@hoopofficial4371 agreed. They want $1000 down just to have first come first serve. Toyota is struggling to meet demand.

[@hoopofficial4371]

@@shawnskates I almost went BRZ for that reason. Decided on GR86 “roll the dice” wait then the FTV Issue which is obviously both so I pulled out all together. Can’t deal with a ticking time bomb. Slight exaggeration I know but you get my point. 🤣

[@ftr911drvr]

@@hoopofficial4371 not to mention the markups. Honestly I think it's a great video but based on other reviews you would be hard pressed to drive a BRZ and walk way thinking it's a boring car that is boring to drive like they did here it seems a bit sensationalist to be honest they do the same in other videos great videos but definitely has some whiffs of sensationalism. Alot of KZbinrs bought the BRZ over the GR86 and love it

[@hoopofficial4371]

@@ftr911drvr agree. I drove 2hours to test drive two used ones (one of each). Unfortunately, both were automatics. I did notice a difference in the auto shift programs but both cars weee simply a blast to drive. I like GR86 front and duck bill. A little more value when you look at the upper end trim since BRZ doesn’t include it.

[@rzb1101]

Guys, that different intersects in the graph has nothing to do with what you think it is, torque and HP are two different physic measures and that intersect means nothing, it can intersect anywhere depends on the value scales for torque and HP on the vertical axis...

[@datacipher]

The problem is that the doorknob reviewers don’t notice there is no y axis shown on the brz, and they don’t understand hp, torque, and what the curves really show. If subaru scaled the y axis differently (almost certainly since it doesn’t cross at 5252) then it won’t cross at the same point. That’s just an illusion of course. It would mean that at the point of crossover in the brz graph hp doesn’t equal torque since a different scale was used. Yep.. wish they’d man up and admit their mistake.

[@douglasangelflores6796]

These guys deserve to have way more subscribers than what they have.

[@romesrepublic]

The second generation GR 86 looks so nice. I want one.