Grand Theft Auto Vice City + San Andreas Definitive Editions - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S Tested!

[@iamthenati]

I'm still mind blown at the idea of performance modes on these extremely old games

[@pasteleptic]

Because the textures are upscaled, it's using a new engine, with completely new particles and effects. Things like that come with a performance cost.

[@ZalvaTionZ]

@@pasteleptic Yeah, a modern PBR renderer that happens to clash with all the assets they threw in it and is way too heavy for this aesthetic. Who ever chose the technical direction for this fucked up.

[@pasteleptic]

@@ZalvaTionZ I don't know what you're talking about, the game looks extremely beautiful and meshes well together on ultra settings using a PC.

[@aditxd1]

@@pasteleptic tf are you talking about. Game like this should run at stable 60fps on fidelity mode at current gen console and last gen console. If you think current gen console can't handle this game, you're just damn delusional. The game just had a really poor optimization. the game design for mobile phone, that's why it run like a shit on console

[@pasteleptic]

@@aditxd1 Well, it runs great on my PC, and that's what I game on, so… You have to be a bit dense not to expect issues when companies make things multi-platform, there's no way to completely optimize it, especially if it's also going to be available on the Switch at the same time. PC will always be superior to that end.

[@ItachiYGO]

the fact these devs managed to make games this bad looking struggle to get good performance on PS5 and Series X is so absurd that it's almost impressive.

[@NonsensicalSpudz]

with the current visuals they have, the fact that a fidelity mode and performance mode exist is beyond ridiculous

[@TUUK2006]

It's purely because fuck-all optimisation has been done. These whole remasters were done as quickly and cheaply as possible. It's like something a bunch of amateur fans did, not developers working for Rockstar.

[@steel5897]

And the Switch version runs worse than the PS2 version in some scenes haha

[@fanovaohsmuts]

@@TUUK2006 and yet a bunch of amateur fans would’ve still turned out a better result than this

[@MrEvol94]

It's easy to blame the devs but it's probably not the devs that set the ambition, budget and time limit for it. No developer want a bad game in their portfolio, we need to start blaming the publishers and the people in charge and not the floor people.

[@nother_castle7508]

After watching this, I have a renewed respect for what they were able to accomplish on the original PS2 releases. I'll skip the definitive edition to maintain the rose-tint on my memories.

[@ElTequilla]

It really is. San Andreas will probably never be contested on the title of “most features squeezed into current format, relative to the time period” 1 DVD.

[@javierortiz82]

I have more respect for what modders were able to achieve.

[@dazitmane8905]

Ya know weirdly, I first played the trilogy on the PS2 last year during lockdown for the first time. Gta 3 was a chore to get through but VC and SA held up so fine.

[@trblemayker5157]

To think that Rockstar gave the green light to this monstrosity and sold it for 60 dollars

[@NikHem343]

This costs 60 dollars??

[@TamalPlays]

@@NikHem343 yes

[@Wanted1Sama]

3 games each one 20$

[@Tryton4551]

@@Wanted1Sama You can only buy all three or none at all, therefore it cost $60 no matter how you look at it

[@Infyra]

Appearently the dev team was thrown under the bus by rockstar because the new GTA 5 expansion was delayed to next quarter.

[@2psah2]

When they announced the trilogy i was so happy. Then they released the trailer, my happiness dropped by 50%. Then the game was released, my jaw dropped. It was terrible. Then i took my old ps2 and television out of the closet, popped in San Andreas..... I'm having so much fun... can't wait to finish SA and start Vice City.

[@minecraftslayer6938]

Why did your happiness drop when you saw the trailer? I thought it looked pretty good. Nobody's saying the graphics are bad. I thought the graphics were amazing. It's just bugs, some creative choices, and some of the character models people are complaining about. If they fix all that, I think it would be a pretty decent remaster

[@dububro]

@@minecraftslayer6938 you could pretty clearly see the character models in the trailer lol

[@bs_shifty_4207]

Lol im playing the ps2 emulated versions on ps4 i felt the same way got so hyped to play them again but the definitive edition was so bad it made me go back to the originals instead

[@teacherfromthejungles6671]

@@minecraftslayer6938 the trailer is crap despite it tried to hide the fact that the games are in pre-alpha state

[@daithimac5785]

@@minecraftslayer6938 .....yeah dude .... *NOBODY* is saying the graphics are bad....... I have not heard one person anywhere say that..... ahuh...yep......absolutely no one ...not one ...anywhere... It's all conspiracy.....obviously the graphics are top tier Up there with the best ...yep

[@IMe7x]

There's still a serious amount of work need to be done to polish these remasters, and they should run at 60 fps at all times (with either modes) on current-gen consoles and even last-gen.

[@jrv7346]

There should only be one mode running at 60fps. These aren't graphically complex games

[@retrosimon9843]

Even if they did all that work it's still a mobile port with missing features from the original. Just compare CJ working out in the gym, riding a bike, doing burglary missions. I think even flying a jet is borked.

[@biscuitsntea421]

I got more dips on VC for some reason haven't had any noticeable drops on SA

[@GothicSnowLeopard]

The fact there needs to be a pErForManCe mode on Series X/S and PS5 is mind boggling given this isn't a new Forza or God Of War that would demonstrate the system's capabilities

[@davidkrocks]

precisely.

[@Rapscallion227]

This is embarrassing. The fact these games can’t easily hit a stable 60fps at a native 4K is baffling. We are talking about 20 year old games getting essentially older-than-last-gen enhancements.

[@hundvd_7]

Right? I was baffled when I saw last video that GTA3 had performance problems. Just how? They looks like shit, so the least they could do is run well...

[@hetfield144]

And yet i have Doom Eternal running 60fps in 4k plus ray tracing enabled on my Series X... 2001 Rockstar.. 2021 Cockstar...

[@Insill]

These games are running on Unreal Engine 4 instead of the original RenderWare..... but there are many graphically similar games made using that engine. This is about really poor optimization.

[@Rapscallion227]

@@Insill yes, but let’s be real, the CPU and GPU usage really shouldn’t increase much. All models are still relatively low poly, and there’s a lack of volumetrics and stuff to clog up any of the next gen consoles. It’s pretty inexcusable. The ped density and small size of the maps also makes this even more laughable. I’m just confused as to how the lack of optimization to make the frames chug THIS badly.

[@nicolasmartinez4337]

i love how theres no “series x and ps5 are just weak!” only damn they rly fucked it up

[@vectoralphaSec]

I honestly seriously can't believe some reviewers gave these remasters a 9/10 or perfect 10/10. I lost any and all respect and credibility for all those people.

[@goncaloduarte4683]

I lost respect for a ton of reviewers from websites and KZbin channels last year with Cyberpunk 2077

[@TheScrubmuffin69]

@@goncaloduarte4683 too bad you didn't like it, it's a good game if you are able to form your own opinion

[@MichaelMitreski]

i think the games look great, i honestly havent played it yet, but i think people complaining are expecting gta v, what ya got was gta 3 vice city and san andreas and they look to be true to the games i played back in the day with nicer graphics and thats it, and theres nothing wrong with that, i think you entitled gamers expected fullblown from ground up remasters of these games, thats insane expectations

[@Phelaidar]

@@TheScrubmuffin69 cyberpunk as a game, isolated from all the lies, a 7 at best. With all the lies, misleading and false advertisement, from the launch state, should be a 6 or 5 max for any serious reviewer.

[@-redacted_by_youtube]

Well when a paycheck is involved most scumbags will shill for that money.

[@michaeldasilva1752]

It's crazy to think that RockStar developed and released 3... THREE!!!... Highly polished and entertaining GTA titles in one console generation.

[@DuckAlertBeats]

I don't remember any GTA games being highly polished tbh :o

[@LotsaLOUD]

5 games if you count the Rockstar Leeds games. Vice City Stories and Liberty City Stories were also on PS2

[@Manic_Panic]

5. While LCS and VCS were originally PSP games, they ended up getting ports to the PS2. There is also GTA Advance which released during those years but it's still exclusive to the GBA so I dunno if that counts.

[@ChristianHedman]

They weren't polished though. Like, none of them were really finished even. But that doesn't take away from the amazing accomplishments R* achieved with these games.

[@TheMasterOfSafari]

@@ChristianHedman how so? They were polished games last time I checked lol

[@rasmustagu]

For games this old, something like "30 fps" shouldn't be a thing. I'm dumbfound how performance mode can't even reach 120.

[@rasmustagu]

like these are games which should be silky smooth 60 on the switch.

[@Darkhalo314]

Agreed. This looks like a game that even the Xbox 360 or PS3 could have run at 60fps. 120 shouldn't even be an issue on the PS5/Series X. Hell with the way the graphics are on the remaster, they should be able to run 240hz

[@MichaelMitreski]

@@rasmustagu lol are you serious? the switch is too damn weak to run gta at 60 fps

[@moes95]

@@MichaelMitreski it ought to do it, we are talking about 20 year old games. Only one console should performance/quality option and thats the switch, all other should have ran above 60+

[@64bitmodels66]

@@adriantrusca1245 its not optimization, its just they used UE4 which is an overly demanding (and to be honest, shitty game engine in general) engine for consoles. IF they ported it to RAGE it would have run 100000x better.

[@NikHem343]

This surely was a big hit to R*s reputation - and an entirely unnecessary one at that. I guess they thought this would sell no matter what, but it … doesn't? Would've totally bought this on a whim if it even came close to GTA V standards in graphics and polish, even for 60$. I won't even touch this with a stick.

[@TUUK2006]

They shat on fans and customers even more by making that cunty apology saying that the games didn't launch in a version that reaches their standards. They were the ones who knew it was a shitshow and still released it. They act like the state of the games or the state of them at launch was somehow outside their control.

[@subjectivereviews]

It's jus a scam

[@mravg79]

Hit the reputation? Temporary maybe. These companies can recover and gamers (a a whole) seems to have memory of a gold fish. Look at the EA from time that lead to SW BF2 release, what happened later (the whole lootbox discussions and hearings), stock prices, and how it finally ended and if anything changed.

[@sanjay_swain]

Bruh forget about graphics. I and many people can't even run the game on modern PC. Even with RTX 3070 there are horrible framedrops. Simply forget about Nintendo Switch or other console.

[@danielposey0620]

My biggest gripe here is that not even this remaster restores the cool orange hazy smog effect that the Ps2 version of San Andreas made famous, no version since has been able to replicate that effect, that’s just really weird.

[@thel1355]

At this point incompetence is starting to look like the right answer. Normally, I'd charitably attribute it to time and budget, but the decisions and priorities here are near incomprehensible.

[@Manic_Panic]

You can do it on PC with SkyGFX. It also restores Vice City's atmosphere which was missing from PC and the mobile remaster.

[@nathanddrews]

@@Manic_Panic PC with mods is really the only way to play these classics these days. Just a shame that that took away the option to legally buy the old PC ports after releasing this travesty.

[@sd19delta16]

@@nathanddrews They're actually bringing them back to the Rockstar launcher and anyone who bought the Definitive Edition on PC will get them for free.

[@Inhake]

Maybe the implementation was very PS2-specific and they didn't bother recreating it for the original PC port, which had the knock-on effect of this feature going missing for every port since then. I noticed that the Xbox port also didn't have this feature implemented...

[@SteamPunk96]

Good stuff again, Oliver. Nice to see you bringing your own flavour to the DF channel.

[@MajorasThoughts]

Series X and PS5 should be able to handle all of these games at 1440p at 120fps in performance mode. What a joke

[@Henriette187]

To be honest even more. 4K at 120fps or 8k at 60fps should be easy…

[@DEVILTAZ35]

@@Henriette187 You have to be joking lol . On Unreal Engine 4 lol. It is a resource hog.

[@Henriette187]

@@DEVILTAZ35 It’s not a joke. UE4 is just the Engine and itself is very efficient. It depends how one uses the engine. It seems you don’t know anything about game development

[@SerBallister]

@@Henriette187 Dev houses that use construction kit engines like UE usually don't hire that many engine programmers (Looking at you Bethesda). That rubbish rain effect gives that away.

It's simply horrible optimization. Really horrible. Also this port makes Switch looks like shit... Switch that runs games like Doom Eternal, Witcher and many other games better than this... I know they are 30 fps locked and not on the level of PC or other console ports but they still look really good... this one? Just looks horrible and performing shitty.

[@paradoxzee6834]

I remerber when San Andreas came out, it looked so realistic, one my friend talked 24/7 about the game, I still remerber the line that aged like milk "The game looks 90% like the real world"

[@7783alfonso]

I remember reading in Game Informer that you can climb walls and ride bicycles at that time it blew my mind lol

[@markusklein7222]

Never heard such bs I played it too on release and it was great but I never would have said something that idiotic its very cartoonish. You also watched sompisons as a kid and said this look like rl?

[@TheVentrexian]

Facts, I remember Halo CE having the same effect. Games today look crazy

[@WrestlingFace]

@@markusklein7222 you're so perfect

[@NinBendo1]

Maybe you should remember how to spell remember

[@WayStedYou]

"However, we have tested out the patch and found that none of our observations, performance metrics or resolution tests have changed... and even the San Andreas rain effect (which was supposed to have been improved according to the patch notes) seems to be unchanged." Lmao.

[@stealthriot]

It would have been great to see them take the approach of Mafia: Definitive Edition and rework the game from the ground up with a complete graphical overhaul and also keeping the original remasters around online.

[@DARS_04]

Did you know that they nuked fan-made mods that improved upon the PC ports from back in the day? And replaced it with a worse "definitive" edition? Atleast the PC Ports were put back online but damn that's just disrespectful of it's history and all to meet that fiscal year with more munni.

[@ironsword7]

I'm glad this exists so that if in a couple of years I feel nostalgic I'll pick it up for $10. Given Rockstar have literally made billions of dollars from these games, it would have been nice if they actually remastered them properly and priced them accordingly as a nod to their loyal base - a missed opportunity for a rare show of gratitude to tide gamers over until gta v or 6 is released. But of course, greed ultimately wins out.

[@TUUK2006]

As a business move, it's baffling to me. They take their best historical products, give them to an inexperienced team of devs and just let them shit out whatever they please with no QA whatsoever. I'm genuinely baffled as to what their gameplan was here.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

I really think they didn’t even really test these. They figured how could they be that much worse than the ps2 games. It’s like it didn’t even go through any quality checks at all. Amazingly pathetic. They deserve massive criticism for this.

[@Sonicfoxtrot]

cringe

[@fenixman2]

I wouldnt play this even if someone paid me 10 bucks for it.

[@phil16]

Rockstar is shit from rdr2, just another big soulless corp

[@susu5331]

The "remastered" versions honestly feel like some undergrad students' passion project, the lack of attention to details and the lack of Engine customization reminds me of my group projects in Uni

[@deathdoor]

There's so much to talk about that I was expecting separate videos for each one.

[@DenickoGames]

What rockstar did with this trilogy was a total disrespect for our memories of these games, a shame.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

It's kind of funny as it is their property they butchered . Surely no-one pre-orders anymore anyway after the stunts pulled by so many devs over the last year or two especially. However it is kind of the last of the titans has fallen after the mess with CDPR. Rockstar was a trusted company for Single player games especially when it came to quality and now they have damaged that Rep probably forever just to make a fast buck. At the moment it is Sony studios and Microsoft studios consistently giving us quality gaming. Not to mention the Switch has seen some exemplary ports of some pretty substantial games such as Dying Light.

[@gooddoc8129]

@@DEVILTAZ35 gaming is now business industry to devs its about $ not about games like it used to be

[@syproful]

I really wonder now, how much of this work has been done with automation tools. It just looks to crazy to have been retouched by hand.

[@peckneck2439]

Imagine, just IMAGINE using a mobile port for the base of a game developed for PS5 or PC.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

and here i was thinking how great and easy the Series X would be for devs being Direct X 12 lol.

[@RichJohn]

Isn't that what Konami did with eFootball (PES)? That didn't work too well either did it?

[@josemanoeltavaresfilho3693]

This trilogy is meant to replace the 10th anniversary one on Android/IOS, they just figured that they could squeeze money from the console/pc crowd first.

[@transtechgirl8786]

These games are such a disappointment on the whole and I feel a prime example of corporate greed.

[@HotdogNoire]

Yeah I agree. Just refunded my copy and bought the trilogy on PS2 instead

[@UmVtCg]

@@HotdogNoire Why in the hell would you wanna to that. 20 Years to play these games, never gave it an other thought until a remaster that sucks on release decades later and suddenly you want to play it so bad you bought the original PS2 games. LOL That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Wait, or, or, or, and hear me out... You could add an other year to the twenty and wait for Rockstar to patch this crap.

[@HotdogNoire]

@@UmVtCg pretty simple really. The remasters suck ass and visuals aside, they're objectively worse than the originals. And so, I bought the originals to play them again. That can't be too hard to understand, right?

[@JackieWelles]

@@UmVtCg I bought other old games from 20 years ago mainly because they there about to be removed from the store and also wanted to experience them again. There is nothing wrong about it. Especially when everyone is playing those 3 GTA games again. And let you remind you that Rockstar has removed original before bringing them back on PC store.

[@Countless_Relics]

@@UmVtCg Yeah, I don't get it neither, these games on PS2 are too old by now. Instead of playing the original because you are 'disappointed' in the Definitive Edition,' I would just play something else entirely.

[@nightowl3582]

Vice City DE visually looks the best to me. The enhanced lighting adds to the 80's Miami look. They took the grittiness out of 3 and SA; they look too clean now.

[@theryan519]

Yes! San Andreas especially has suffered the most. It’s ‘character’ has been destroyed.

[@jackyv626]

San andreas lost the orange tint that make the games stand out

[@AchiragChiragg]

@@jackyv626 SA lost the orange tint way back with the original PC release though.

[@jackyv626]

@@AchiragChiragg yeah that's way everyone emulate that game on PC

[@Ray-dl5mp]

They need to add the color look back to San Andreas or this is a travesty.

[@LatinLegacyNY]

Makes you respect the effort that was put into redoing the Mafia games. Rockstar took the laziest approach possible in creating this " definitive " editions of their classic GTA games & it shows.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

Still Mafia only runs at 30 fps which is a damn shame for Series X and PS5. It really needs at the very least an FPS uncap patch.

[@AMR15H]

@@DEVILTAZ35 true, it literally needs a patch that removes that 30fps cap and I’m 100% sure it will run 60fps on PS5 and Xbox Series X.

[@Baleur]

These Definitive Edition games have SERIOUS gameplay issues that doestn even have anything to do with graphics. For one, there is NO OPTION to change the camera settings, which means EVERY 2 seconds after moving your mouse to look around while driving, it autocenters forward again, EVERY 2 SECONDS im not kidding you, evne if you're mid aiming at a target behind you. Another fun one is that the Y-axis is GLUED to the horizon, and if you move your mouse up or down, it again autocenters to the horizon with an incredibly sticky feeling, EVERY SECOND.. Basically on PC, you can kiss your mouse goodbye, because the game refuses to let you look around and aim freely. And yes, its the same problem with a controller, but marginally better since the way a joypad works, it keeps sending input while holding look in cars. It's incredibly stupid, and a single tiny option in the menu would solve the entire gameplay issue this game has. Its practically unplayable as it is.

[@athulregi6281]

Yep these controls were made for touch screens, hence with a mouse everything is awkward and slow. The sad thing is that they butchered the vehicle handling on the Vice city anniversary edition and the same mechanics is carried on to the definitive edition, cars and bikes now slides around and have severe under steer, Tommy's sprint speed is also way off, same as in mobile port and don't get me started on the simplified and crippled mini games. The camera is now locked on jets and aircrafts, the entire port is a mess. This "definitive edition" is an exact replica of the garbage Mobile ports, they chose this version because it has checkpoints and movable camera on cars, both of which are absent on original releases also the mobile ports had some model changes and polished characters. Really hoped they would port the PS2 versions, well it is what it is, imo the best way to play is to download the og PC version and get mods that restores the missing PS2 assets and effects

[@athulregi6281]

Also people think that the gameplay changes like driving mechanisms and camera changes were intentional from the developer to make the experience more modern, but let me tell you that all changes were present on the mobile ports, go and play the mobile ports and you will see the same gameplay mechanics like driving, camera and mini games and checkpoints. These were made to make the game playable on a touch screen but it's half arsed and broken even on a touch screen, so the argument that these were intended for improved experience on consoles and PCs is plain wrong, they did not change a thing, you are basically paying 60$ for a broken mobile port with an added feature of a weapon wheel. The current developers at grove Street studios assumed that the way game played and looked in the mobile ports with all the gameplay and control schemes was how the orginal versions played, they failed to accommodate the changes that were made on these mobile ports due to no oversight of previous projects or due to poor memory. Basically they never played the original versions and had no experience with how it felt and worked, for them the og versions are the mobile versions, which we all know is a heavily compromised release. I expected some changes from the mobile ports like some changes to vehicle handling, but nope. They even directly mapped the mouse to touch screen camera control, hence the constant auto adjustment(centering) of camera just like in mobile port, just disappointing.

[@09spidy]

The original San Andreas still looks pretty good on PC, it even features real time environmental shadows, which is a feature not available on any other platform iirc.

[@DEALUX]

Except for original Xbox version.

[@The2808erik]

They are not real time. Those are stencil shadows that change with the time of day. The best version in the PC version with mods that restore the PS2 cars models and other visual elements.

[@jsward96]

The lighting isn't as atmospheric as the PS2 version though.

[@kupokinzyt]

@@The2808erik It was on all consoles and they are dynamic stencil shadows and are indeed real-time. Park a car with it headlights on something in the PS2 version and watch as the shadow it produces moves with the sun. Most movable objects cast shadows as well. Oddly, character and vehicle shadows themselves are missing on consoles but everything else is there.

[@panda.7055]

@@kupokinzyt They are static 🤦‍♂️

[@JiltedValkyrie]

Switch: 1 TFLOP PS2: 6.2 GFLOPS For a machine more than 160x the power of a PS2, you would think it could run a PS2 game. This is some seriously bad optimisation of UE4, likely in transparencies and materials, and especially AI, which needs to be handled with care, as AI will bottleneck everything if you don't program it correctly (personal experience).

[@spht9ng]

UE4 games can run well in Switch if specifically tailored for it. Unfortunately, it seems they just compiled for Switch on UE4 without shader optimizations.

[@TSL73]

@@spht9ng right? Ue4 games made for switch are some of the few engines that run well on it.

[@BainesMkII]

The Switch can run the original GTA3. Fans reverse engineered and ported it to the Switch last year. (It seemed to be based on the PS2 code, but used PC assets.) It looked pretty good, running docked at 1920x1080p at 30fps. You could uncap the framerate to run it faster than 30fps, but that apparently caused some issues. Rockstar and/or Take-Two of course hit it with a DMCA takedown.

[@Taijifufu]

What resolution was the original PS2 version running at though?

[@dnakatomiuk]

Grove Games at its best

[@tamerator]

A big step up from your first review! Awesome job, Oliver. 👏👏👏

[@sehrschee]

Wow..just wow. Someone really disliked working on those editions... For me if you had a team working on it that understood and liked those games.. it would never come out like this.

[@eddiewalpole]

Probably a matter of unrealistic deadlines.

[@TheTodd5761]

Made all the more ironic since the teams name is Grove Street Games 😏

[@oakmonster2164]

Exactly, this series is legend! They wanted money but honestly they should have never embarked on the project releasing it in its current form, very disrespectful to the OG fan base this is mostly targeting.

[@Ward413]

Exactly. Which is why modders always do it better because they start as fans first who love the game and would never put out dog shit content like this. Rockstar doesn’t care about their IP’s - they only care about money now. Hence why the upcoming GTA V “Expanded & Enhanced” is neither expanded nor is it enhanced. In fact, they’ve even stopped using that in the marketing.

[@youtindia]

It's interesting how they missed to talk about PS4 and Xbox One performance modes compared to GTA 3 videos. I understand it's a lot of work, but for the reviews in the same series, we would wonder how they compared to GTA 3. Also something noted in last video was that PS4 Pro version ran on PS5 was a locked 60fps in GTA 3. Is that also the case with this Vice City and San Andreas?

[@Bookish1995]

Last gen had classic ports anyways

[@kicapanmanis1060]

@@Bookish1995 which are now no longer purchasable.

[@jaeehovaa]

@@Bookish1995 they were mobile ports lol by the same ppl

[@Charlton369]

@@jaeehovaa the ps4 old release of san andreas uses the ps2 version.

[@bs_shifty_4207]

@@jaeehovaa WRONG

[@Moravia90s]

"Oh shit, here we go again..." Been waiting for these two to be review by DF for days now. Pretty sure it's going to be really interesting

[@ScrapKing73]

They would have been better off doing what the Master Chief Collection popularized: the ability to swap back and forth between the original visual aesthetic (just at higher-res), and the re-imagined visual aesthetic, with the press of a button. Even if that meant they had to cap the performance at 30 FPS to do it. That would have added enough value that they could have sold the games individually rather than as a triple-pack, giving them more time to work on each one and get them right. And do all this with confidence in their product standing on its own, so that there’d be no need to remove the old versions from digital stores (or sue modders). = Profit.

[@marko6947]

No point in that. They should've never released this. End of.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

That would mean running 2 different engines though and they couldn't even get 1 working properly let alone 2 lol. That twin engine design also created huge problems on all but the latest series consoles on Xbox too. Xbox one X struggled at times with hitching likely caused by the two engines and a rather crappy cpu.

[@athalonARC]

Problem with that is the size would increase (not by much, those games are tiny, but still) and simply having that ability on the go would cause performance issues, even worse if you keep switching back and forth, it would be much worse than it is in Halo IMO because of it being open world.

[@ScrapKing73]

@@athalonARC & @DEVILTAZ35, which is why I proposed A) dropping the frame rate back to 30 to accomplish it, and B) releasing the games as three separate releases. After making two engines work when they couldn't get one to work, that's why I also suggested releasing them one at a time under this strategy rather than as a triple pack, so that the resources they dedicated to this project were focused on one game instead of three.

[@Fran_622]

Ah shit, here we go again...

[@rlfernandes9538]

The point about the new SA missing any atmospheric haze was spot on... one of the worse decisions imo, there's no more of the sense of discovery and scale found in the original. Games like MGS2 and the ps2 GTA trilogy had very specific looks, featuring artistic decisions that incorporated clever workarounds to the technical limitations of the time (rudimentary resolution, draw distance, materials, lighting, reflections and so on). They weren't perfect but they even elevated our impressions of the hardware capabilities...! Some of those solutions still hold up today (just run the mgs2 tanker chapter on an emulator with higher resolutions, or look at the AI upscaled trailer DF showed a while ago)... they still fool our eyes lol

[@gurkiratsingh8747]

What soothing video that was, different style but I like it

[@olabandola100]

"recent games like GTA V" which came out 8 years ago... 😔

[@pirate4579]

Ugh that makes me wanna puke…

[@andytabor3829]

The notification was indeed instant.

[@nicolagiampellegrini3411]

Instant, yes instant notification (witchard 2021)

[@Oni64]

I think they should of just ported the reverse engineered ports to the switch. Modders and the community to the rescue

[@Pedro_The_Neco]

Should've

[@spaceshipnayib]

I've been saying this. I think console players would've been content with just a straight port of the games, without graphical upgrades. Especially now knowing that the graphical upgrades are causing more problems than anything.

[@kerbolax]

They did, Rockstar gave them a takedown

[@mjc0961]

Instead of DMCAing and suing modders, they should have hired/contracted modders for this project. They could have the Sonic Mania of GTA remasters, instead we have the Sonic Colors Ultimate of remasters.

[@LuMnOsITi]

It was on the store as a PS2 Classic PSN game for 8 years...

[@yousefdarestani3]

Fantastic video by the new guy!

[@madfinntech]

It's clear that the original PS2 versions are still the definitive ones. They are the only ones with the original intent and all effects intact in every part of this trilogy. For example that San Andreas heat haze look was already missing on every version even back in the day after the original on the PS2.

[@PabloB888]

PC version with definitve edition mod pack has the same orange filter. PS2 has this filter without any mods, but considering framerate (15 fps dips + streaming stuttering), lagy aiming I really cant recommend PS2 version these days to anyone.

[@iancurrie8844]

It’s not even HD (less than 720p) on the switch when docked? Outrageous!

[@5izzy557]

They should have hired the guy's that reversed engineered the games, Instead of hitting him with a lawsuit. There's even Switch & PS vita versions, would have been a lovely base for these "remasters"

[@RidgeRacer]

Fun to hear a new (to me) voice on Digital Foundry!

[@luuketaylor]

I've just realized Oliver sounds like he could be John's older brother. Anyway, this entire definitive edition nonsense is just that. Nonsense. Great analysis as always, DF, and great work, Oliver.

[@thewirv]

Oh, a new voice? Welcome to the family, Oliver!

[@PeeGeeThirteen]

Thank you very much! I will never ever buy a game until you guys take them for a test drive. I deleted my installs of the "Definitive Edition" because I am hugely disappointed in Rockstar's handling of these classics. (my avatar has been Claude from GTA3 since forever, I'm ashamed today of what Rockstar has become)

[@nicolaiby1846]

Great video! Very concise analysis of the game.

[@dr.loomis4221]

They coulda just took the old PS2 code and made the game run at 4K/60fps and had way better results.

[@deadlyydude5522]

First time I’ve seen a video from this guy, but you did a great job!

[@CarlosCamposvc92]

Why make a masterpiece of a 30+ minutes review of GTA 3 by John and now a not so masterpiece under 20 minutes review of 2 games stuffed together? Was kind of hoping that John would be the one presenting these two aswell.

[@dewinter1411]

Kinda seemed like he was setting it up to have it three parts, in his last video. This guy isn’t bad, but a release like this needs John or Rich.

[@alex.starostin]

Agreed. This guy is good but the way John set it up in his video I was expecting two more separate vids by him

[@adc_ax]

Because most of what John said in that video applies here, really.

[@ShaneC2788]

Alot of work went into this video thanks!

[@Daninshit]

these games may be primitive, but they had a lot of visual effects that stood out. You remastering everything is pretty hard work, the problem is they haven't really committed to remaking it to the same quality as the originals. e.g.: with a bigger team, with more QA investment, or whatever it is that made these games masterpieces in the first place.

[@Rodniikun]

The damn video is better produced than the remasters

[@mightylink65]

0:37

[@Luiko0406]

ah here we go again, 30fps FAKE 4K, as expected of weakbox series x and weakstation 5 me laughing on my $1000 pc, 3x faster than weakbox series x and weakstation 5 😎

[@XnolovelostX1]

@@Luiko0406 What?

[@belland_dog8235]

@@Luiko0406 what are you going on about?

[@WybremGaming]

@@Luiko0406 a 1000$ pc won't even beat half a ps5 lmao.

[@UltraCasualPenguin]

@@Luiko0406 What cpu and graphics card do you have? 400 on SSD and at least 400 on case, psu, motherboard + memory doesn't leave much room for fast graphics card.

[@wobblingpixels3921]

Great series. Love it. One detail you forgot to mention: You can disable the "trial" filter in the option (Vice CIty)

[@TheUltimateBlooper]

GTA SA remaster proves that the flat-earthers were right...

[@JessedoesDIY]

I'm amazed Rockstar even OK'd this....

[@daringintrovert]

Thank you Oliver for the great analysis. I personally don’t have an issue with the character models looking like cartoons; I’ve always felt that was the point. But the fact that none of these games hold 60fps on every single platform (including the Switch) is unacceptable.

[@thishandleisnotavaliable]

No , the models are the most unacceptable thing. The models were never really cartoony , some features were exaggerated however most things remained the same. The definitive edition completely ruins some models , the most apparent being Denise. I rather take good art design above frame rate any day.

[@Jerrrrremy]

What kind of nightmare cartoons are you watching?

[@TwoBs]

I don’t get the “they were purposely going for the cartoony” look excuse I see a lot rush to use and defend. They were merely working with what they had access to at the time, and at that time, the models weren’t the greatest even for 2k polygon counts. If that was truly the case, IV and it’s add-ons as well as V would’ve went _this_ direction to appear more like Sims look that’s going on with this DE version. The “cartoony” excuse would hold up better if the characters in the newer GTA games actually were similar to this style, but they’re not. There is a realistic approach which was what was intended to be done with the older ones, but Rockstar wasn’t as big back then as they are today. They were working with low poly models and low res textures. This was a half-assed mobile port done by the same people that screwed that up and it shows.

[@9thFlame]

Nah I agree, obviously it was for port reasonz but I'm not mad at them for the art direction,they just should've handled the models wayyyy better but if they wanna go for the box art style then the 3D era would be best for it. Like yeah,make your game work and tweak the models,but I'm for the art style if they can improve upon it more.

[@9thFlame]

Cartoony or not they just executed it wrong,I'm not salty about the art direction in practice but they need to work on those models

[@TheLukesterGaming]

Another impressive job you guys have done here to cover GTA Vice City & San Andreas from the "Definitive Edition", or well the Definitively Broken Edition going by how terribly unoptimised it looks to be running across the console platforms currently, with those inconsistent framerates regardless of console/mode!🤔 Though for what it's worth, Vice City does look really nice with those real time reflections/lighting and such when driving along the main areas at night!😎👍

[@dnegel9546]

Me: just want a simple resolution update and 60fps. Maybe modern controls that's it. 🙂 Rockstar: here take it or leave it.

[@Dakobra_]

Fantastic video Oliver!

[@vinniecorleone62]

Why don't you show the 8th gen system stats like the PS4 Pro & the XB1-X like you did with "GTA3"?

[@MrSiloterio]

15:02 - The reason you said San Andreas fares much better is because you're testing in the day. Try to test all three games at night with all headlight shadows enabled and all are equally a disaster.

[@bookshelffury]

thank you for showing ps2 footage WITH trails turned on. trails is so much more than just motion blur.

[@SavageMontreal]

It looks like a terrible blurry mess. The first thing I do when I play the PS2 GTA games is turn that off. It looks much sharper. Unfortunately, you miss out on the rain drops hitting the screen, but it's a small price to pay for a clearer picture.

[@AJDOLDCHANNELARCHIVE]

@@SavageMontreal I much prefer the softer more filmic look rather than sharp low-poly low-res visuals. That's my main gripe with PS2 games that were ported to PC, they lose all those complex post-processing effects that gave the games added character.

[@mjc0961]

@@SavageMontreal Agreed. Trails look like shit, because ultimately it is just motion blur, and motion blur never looks good.

[@pasteleptic]

I disagree. That was always the first option I turned off on my PS2. It's nausea fuel. Motion blur is a lot more natural if done well and not overdone, which I think they did a good job on in the remasters.

[@bookshelffury]

@@pasteleptic eww

[@minerkey682]

love how at 8:13 a small forest is just invisible until it pops into view mere feet from the player

[@bradbeck2601]

All they had to do was remake these games in the GTA V engine. It would have taken a couple years with a modest team and they would have made bank.

[@user-wu2tx5wg8x]

More than a couple of years I'd say, they would have had to do everything from scratch.

[@santhoshsridhar5887]

@@user-wu2tx5wg8x I think GTA SA would’ve been somewhat easier to remake tho as they already have the assets from GTA 5.

[@youaintasbadasyouthink]

Even if they were to do this for just San Andreas, it's not realistic as you'd have to get all of the celebrity voice actors back in. Those who are now charging millions for their services. *(Should also add that Young Maylay who plays CJ wants NOTHING to do with Rockstar, making this a pipe dream)* Then pay for all the music licences all over again, recoding every single mission and feature. It would take the same length of time taken to create GTA V to create a remaster. The money they spend wouldn't be recouped. Clearly the studio is focused on GTA VI, hence why they made the poor decision to outsource to a mobile development team. Really what they should have done is let GSGs do their remaster, then have Rockstar's team go through it for another year or two making sure it's actually perfect. Have the big fans / modders / content creators of the games come in and suggest changes. Similar to how 343 have done it alongside KZbinrs under the codename 'The Forerunners' with Halo Infinite.

[@xMrDemonRushx]

@@youaintasbadasyouthink It's just that there isn't any reason for T2 to allow making Mafia remake and at the same time do this to the most popular video game series in the world.

[@user-wu2tx5wg8x]

@@xMrDemonRushx Very different games though, Mafia is a very linear open world game with far less content and would have been a much easier project than 3 full remakes of the GTA games.

[@kingofdust9725]

I love these breakdowns!

[@keoki101]

This vid does not feel like Digital Foundry!

[@evklinken]

Haven't heard Oliver on DF before, but just wanted to say: great job narrating and... interesting findings :P

[@mrnicktoyou]

The spelling errors in the game are probably because these conversions were offloaded to India or some other non English as a first language country or something. Anything to save money.

[@user-og9nl5mt1b]

What's your issue with India bro

[@mrnicktoyou]

@@user-og9nl5mt1b How did you read my comment and come to the conclusion that I have an issue with India? Are you daft or something?

[@mrnicktoyou]

@Sideways Singh That makes no sense. An AI doesn't need to "upscale" text that is to be simply copied across.

[@grandtheftauto1233]

@@mrnicktoyou I think you’re misunderstanding. The technique they’re using would try to use AI to read the source text - and then would re-type the text in the new generated image - rather than an actual upscale of the rasterized source text. This lead to plenty of typos as the AI has difficulty properly detecting some of the text in such tiny textures

[@mrnicktoyou]

@@grandtheftauto1233 ok, that makes sense then. I think I did misunderstand.

[@NicolasSilvaVasault]

5:24 the aliens are taking human forms lol

[@MrXtremeboy991]

The situation about gaming these days makes me realise how good and impressive the old times were. Good games which were made so they could run on hardware that would otherwise be considered impossible to run on,at least in these days. Not to mention no microtransactions,no online required to be able to play a singleplayer game,no exaggerated prices for games that weren't worth it. When will those days ever come back?

[@dububro]

Limitations inspire creativity. I read an article recently about "Netflix bloat", how no commercial breaks or strict limits on runtime results in lazier editing of shows. Same thing with hardware that allows game devs to "do anything"

[@WllKiedSnake]

Remember playing the PS4 Pro version on PS5 in its Performance Mode will get you a locked 60fps. The trade off is resolution though.

[@dobbo010]

This remaster screams being run through an AI upscaler with a handful of new textures and then rushed over by a QA team without enough time or resources. I really hope they fix this, would be happy to pick it up on sale in 12 months or so if it's improved.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Great video and commentary !!

[@SERGE_Tech]

The maps really did feel huge, you could drive forever and keep finding new areas, the smaller towns and the forested areas gave it even epic feel. GREAT VOICE ACTING AND STORY TELLING.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

It is still fun in that regard. I backed a truck up to a trailer and went country driving listening to country music on the weekend and it was still cool :). Yes the rig with the trailer is still impossible to turn in some streets. Oddly now though there is a bug that can render the truck useless if you turn too sharply with a trailer attached too. i think in the old version the trailer disconnected a lot sooner and you could just reconnect it but now it will sometimes stay attached and just jackknife meaning you can't drive it lol.

[@ChristianPriedl]

I like this new guy, great video!

[@aL3891_]

its not very hard to find faults with these new versions but i gotta say i don't mind the way they approached the character models, i can appreciate what they _tried_ to do atleast, trying to stay as close to the aesthetic of the old ones and kind of making them kind of cartoony versions, similar to the drawings on the load screens.. but of course the execution falls short in a lot of ways, especially for the minor characters :) Its also funny how the switch version, at least to me, looks more reminiscent of the originals in a way, due to the low resolution hiding a bunch of visual blemishes

[@soulbrother5435]

They shouldnt touch the graphics at all. They probably think new generation wont buy this games as they were but then why majority of remasters and ports dont mess with original artstyle? Capcom ported DMC3 and RE4 (games from same era) on switch and people didnt mind they were 15 years old without any enhancements. You either have a vision how to make game look modern like in case of Crash and Spyro or dont touch it

[@thishandleisnotavaliable]

The OG character models were never really "cartoony" . The art design of 3-D universe can be exaggerated at times however it's definitely grounded in reality. Characters have hair on their arms , 5 o'clock shadows and even chest hair. It's obvious times characters were exaggerated were done probably due to technical limitations.

[@TexelGuy]

@@thishandleisnotavaliable Replacing those characters with realistic models would look incredibly bad, I guarantee that. I'm glad rockstar went this direction, or people would be complaining 10x more if they destroyed the look and feel of the janky characters and animations that they remember from their childhood.

[@thishandleisnotavaliable]

@@TexelGuy That's a bad take. Giving the characters a hyper-realistic makeover similar to GTA V characters would be amazing and definitely look better than the original. The environment in this game even though looking worse than the OG trilogy ( in terms of art design as the oceans make my eyes bleed ) still has every impressive textures ( yet terrible models ). Also the animations in the DE trilogy still look incredibly janky with new Vercetti as his face is much more pronounced making those eyes that never blink even worse. Also even if you are right , why make the models worse than the OG trilogy? Have you seen Candy Suxx? Have you seen what they did to Denise?

[@TexelGuy]

@UCC6ECLqYDqak85UsFNBdC-A Nah, the games look fine to most people. People I've shown gameplay to have had no issues with it. The internet likes to complain a bit too much by nitpicking with specific screenshots. A lot more people would be mad at this remaster if they'd shoehorn ultra realistic character models into their favorite games and then they'd complain that they took away the original look and feel of the cutscenes. Having actually played the games, none of that has bothered me, the characters fit in fine with the rest of the updated world. Some specific models look weird, sure, but overall the remasters are pretty good improvement in most ways.

[@nickhall_music]

Nice work olie mack! Repping the patreon

[@brewski535]

Wow, the PS5 is almost going down to 30fps in performance mode. Piss poor optimization.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

It is running the same settings as quality though with uncapped framerate. That means the reflections included which are disabled in that mode on series X along with volumetric cloud. If they switched these two things off it would be much better. Good for PS5 pro i guess lol

[@TheCarromkid]

Well done R*! So glad I've still got the original games. Amazed how little care you've put into bringing your heritage to current gen players.

[@GlennThoughts]

Some classics are best left untouched. Treasured in our memories.

[@JackieWelles]

Indeed, or they could have upscaled them slightly because those old games run on max 720 p and playing it on 1440 or even 4K monitor is a bit weird.

[@mikeg8494]

Sweet, I was waiting for this.

[@martinantelo7086]

There's something soothing about Oliver's voice. After so much content with people yelling on every channel under the sun and Twitch, it's a welcome change.

[@oscarmike90]

No, voice is kinda slurred, difficult to hear clearly...

[@DEVILTAZ35]

haha i know right . 'This is Colt Eastwood'' . I always have to race for the volume control when he launches a new video :). KZbin doesn't seem to support auto sound level control of my amplifier either.

[@Toucan_222]

Awesome video. Really shows how much better those originals were.

[@CheetahChugXE]

Is there going to be a Skyrim Anniversary Edition video ? They did claim to have added native series x/ ps5 enhancements. I was hoping to see what visual/performance upgrades were provided in the update.

[@skurasch]

The improvements are just finding a new way to sell skyrim again with the least amount of effort.

[@hohohodrigues]

12:44 of course, and with ambient occlusion it feels like everything at a 2 meter distance feels connected in some way

[@CyborgSodaCollects]

Can't believe they released this. Remember people, the only vote that counts is the one you make with your wallet.

[@CylindricalWhistle]

5:24 WHAT IS THAT? Good God, that model is kind of horrifying

[@celcius_87]

Oof, I wouldn't take this remaster if they tried to give it to me for free

[@emulation2369]

It will be like taking a free bag of shit from a random stranger...

[@Liaret]

For some reason that completely eludes me, they enabled UE4's volumetric fog for both titles (probbly for GTA3 as well). It doesn't even seem to be disabled on switch. Vol Fog is very GPU-expensive in Unreal, no wonder the framerate is so poor on older hardware and Switch. And it doesn't even look useful, the games would've looked much better with non-vol fog properly configured over distance, hiding the horrendously looking infinite draw distance as well. Altho the framerate drops during movement are most probably (based on my experience in UE4) connected with asset streaming, as the DF suggests. Unreal BY DEFAULT is very main-thread heavy, meaning any operations, including asset loading done on separate thread, will involve main thread (or game thread. The one that runs your game at a framerate) at some point. For open-world games which constantly stream in new parts of the map, as well as pedestrians and cars, this needs to be very carefully tweaked and possibly rewritten in the engine. It's not really Unreal's fault, if it's not used and configured improperly, needless to say.

[@ShadowExile89]

Goinf to be really interesting to see what updates and improvements they make to these games, I'd like to see some more adjustments to gameplay across all three. Improved animations and gunplay specifically

[@NikHem343]

This is rotten from the core, they will never be able to hit people's initial expectations unless entirely scrapping and redoing it.

[@goncaloduarte4683]

@@NikHem343 o don't think it's rotten to the core, if they improve the characters, change the lighting color, adjust the materials and adjust the ambient occlusion, the "remaster" while not great, it would look substantially better. And of course Rockstar would need to pay for the music licenses, with all the money that's coming from shark cards they for sure should be able to get them.

[@grahamt19781]

Lol don't hold your breath

[@TUUK2006]

They shat out the launch versions with the bare minimum of effort. You think they're suddenly going to start giving a shit now? They might patch out a few bugs, but I bet my left nut these games will look essentially the same by the time Rockstar give up issuing patches.

[@ChristianHedman]

Never gonna happen. Just play the originals on PC with mods. It's the best way if you don't have a PS2 or OG XBox

[@rlfernandes9538]

John Linneman did the gta3 "definitive" video and was like, "I can't do this to myself again..." " not like this", lol

[@Gdot62412]

Man the Switch version really got screwed over

[@thanksbetotap]

The only solution is for Rockstar to pull these releases off the market and start over from scratch with a serious level of funding and the right developer.

[@xLaMarquis309]

I’ve bought the Defective Edition the day it dropped and haven’t played it since because of all of the problems, couldn’t get a refund from Sony so now I have to wait til they fix this mess.

[@MrYessireebob]

As a Vita owner fuck Sony. Try getting a different customer service rep and get yo money back..press it. Then pick up the game down the road when it's cheaper

[@FigmentHF]

Great work, as always.

[@cynical8330]

They should have remade them in the RAGE engine

[@dddddddddddddddadddddddddddddd]

dont think it wouldve made a difference tbh if they made it in their own engine in the same amount of time all the same problems wouldve been their

[@spinal_capped]

They should’ve remade them in their NATIVE engine! Instead, we got a UE4 mobile port >:|