Gravel Grinding with a Moulton?!?!

[@drewdevereux2412]

Those Moulton bikes are beautiful and so well engineered. I rode the Leif Erickson trail maybe a hundred times on my experimental 20” wheel bike when I lived in Portland. The superlight 20x1.95 Box hex lab tires did very well on it. For my 160#, I can float on the roughest stuff there with 15 or 20 psi in the tires. Riding east, downhill, I would aim for the roughest patches, riding as fast as I can, trying to ruin my tires or rims or at least get a flat (that never happened). I really think you need to get big tire volume and as supple casing for small wheel performance. The narrow tire is a limiting factor. A really wide superlight tire in the 20” (406) size (like a 2.4”) does not exist yet. But when it does I will be the first customer! The 20” wheel format for adult bicycles has yet to be truly “discovered". It can work well for all-road bikes, and has a number of advantages over normal bikes. But it’s association with kids bikes makes it a hard sell in our country. As for any small wheel twitchy handling, I found that is not an issue when the trail geometry is adequate. The last bike I made has only 13mm fork offset and a trail figure in the high 60s. Stable as any well designed touring bike.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Check out our vid on the Neutrino. Was running a light casing 2.3!

[@DIY-DaddyO]

I remember seeing a Moulton at a mountain bike event in the 80’s. pretty sure it had nobbly tires like a bmx and canti brakes. This kid was dropping in on a half pipe and getting crazy air. Good times.

[@mcseacock]

I have ridden a Moulton TSR on several rail trails (the GAP, C&O canal, Katy Trail, Hiawatha Trail) with Schwalbe marathon plus tires. Handled the mud, wash board and cobbles well, but was a bit squirrelly in sand and loose gravel. Love the bike.

[@alejandroaranda5254]

The v brake version can accept fairly wide tyres and it's a whole different bike with those.

[@markhancock7527]

Have ridden mine on the loose gravel roads across the new forest England handles these well,tire's can slip on mud and horse crap if the front slides you crash.I think the moulton design lends its self to bike packing,can fit front and rear racks,can get two triangle shaped bags in the frame and one on the top,and a handle bar bag.Once camp is set up you can take the racks off in 5 minutes and you have a fast roadbike.

[@davidparry1982]

Great to read the responses to this very interesting video. Tyres I think are key here . A tyre swap would make all the difference. The TSR is a refined grand-child of the AM ATB - arguably the first full suspension Mountain Bike - probably best on trails like the one in the video but a good effort back in the 80's Re how much for a decent Spaceframe Moulton -'they hold their price well but older APBs aren't too much. I picked up a very original APB 5 for £250 on eBay a couple of weeks ago and it rides really well though probably twice the weight of this TSR. Good paint - great sturmey archer hub gear and solid at 25 years old. The original Cruiser tyres still fitted to the bike but punctured almost immediately. Going to pop them in a box along with the crow-bar heavy seat post and add some modern bits. Marathon plus have just arrived so it was very interesting to read tyre comments - I think these will work well for this bike's primary purpose - a 7 mile each way commute over glass strewn cycle tracks and potted / cobbled roads in Edinburgh. I have every confidence that the APB ( All Purpose Bike) will cope 👍

[@sugarkonny6119]

I tried several tires on my old Moulton APB and my favourites are Natsukashi by Panaracer HP406, they are 41mm on my original APB Alesa rims. Fast rolling on pavement and gravel roads.

[@zelada2020]

hi russ and laura. i thought i had your emails. I ended up breaking the rear brompton triangle; due a too hot a weld... Brompton figured it out as several BBikes broke with a new welder. That led me to find the Moulton bike. I have for about five years now used the moulton on the Deschutes River trail at the river's mouth and daily go up river to the Harris ghost ranch about 11-12 miles...it works terrifically for that. also i find it more comfortable for rides longer than 5 hours. i duplicated a 300 mile ride from st. louis to middle of illinois with the Brompton and then a year later with the moulton and even though the wheel base is similar the Moulton handled more comfortable- i think due the stiffer frame. when i put the bike together i prefer putting on the wheel to each section first. i think it is easier. especially at an airport. Also i know Al from Tempe likes the case you were using ( i used it once) i find a 31 inch or maybe 32 inch suit was easier. i am not able to put the fenders and racks in the suitcases. i bundle the rack and panniers into one gate check 'unit.' i have the tr27 with a low 10 inch gear due to an internal hub and regular derailleur and this is great on my knees and steep climbs e.g. rowena crest climb near the Dalles or up Vista House in the Columbia Gorge. i still use the Brompton for 90 % of my travels which are mostly within cites and use the Moulton for any ride that is in btwn cities or just rides longer than 2-3 hours. cheers. Z Reply to [e-mail]

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Thanks. What tires do you use when you ride the Deschutes River Trail?

[@Clever-Cycles-Portland]

I broke a Brompton rear triangle as well, the orange one I'd ridden down the coast. The same cause: mis-calibrated auto-brazing station: chainstay right behind the crank. I don't think this is a pervasive problem, as Brompton seemed pretty diligent in isolating it. They replaced under warranty. But for my next B i went ti, just in case...

[@JohnMFlores]

Always love the Moultons!

[@garretamiller]

I was looking forward to this video!

[@MrGarydawes]

I use my Moultons (APB & TSR) on that sort of terrain regularly (have a mile of it on my commute) & they are ace unless ground is soft or loose as then the wheels just sink. I have 1.35" Schwalbe Kojaks on one, & 1.5" Marathons on the other. I've also ran with 1.75" Marathon Plus & they are great too, just a bit heavy Fun fact - The Moulton hairpin 20" frame is a direct descendant from the first production full suspension mountain bikes, which was the Moulton AM-ATB back in the 80s

[@karlgw]

Do you plan to test ride the new XTB "Moulton Gravel Bike"?

[@defender1006]

A 'V' braked TSR would be a better option as it gives more and wider tyre (tire) choices, there's now the XTB a revamped/modern AM ATB, running up to 50mm tyres with the option of mudguards.

[@pjclinch00]

SST now available with a V-front brake option (rear is a cable disc)

[@PortapedalBikeIncTempe]

Try the same run but with Schwalbe, 35-406, Marathon Plus, tires. They would be much better suited for this type of terrain and would turn the Moulton into a no-compromise gravel grinder.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Will give it a go!

[@CharlesPlager]

Agreed. Appropriate tires will make a huge difference here.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Wanted to test it with the stock build first before making changes.

[@ericpmoss]

How wide can they go? The Schwalbe Shredda 40-406 or evern 50-406 would be fantastic if they fit (and if they arent' too wide for the rim). They're pretty pricey, though.

[@goyangi2014]

I have them on my tsr 9. they will make ur moulton much more versatile and capable.

[@dave20thmay]

I've Nokian Pacer S on my Moulton APB and they ride over gravel, leaves and snow just fine. The tyres that you have I have on another Moulton TSR30 and that is really skittish on anything other than pavement

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Thanks for the tip. Haven't tried those tires.

[@RukaSubCh]

If you think about it back in the 1960s to 1980s the roads were basically gravely in England for backroads so the Mouton was designed for dirt roads and the original F frame from the 1960s it uses 16” tires same as the brompton

[@nockianlifter661]

Err no. They were tarmac like every other road.

[@oe59]

Brompton uses 349mm (16”) wheel, original Moulton 369mm (17”)

[@RukaSubCh]

@@oe59 it’s 16” for the original F frame Moultons from the 60s

[@oe59]

@@RukaSubCh Ah, those - indeed; 349mm ?

[@RukaSubCh]

@@oe59 Yup the schwalbe tires off the Brompton fit perfectly on the Moulton rims.

[@ericpmoss]

Moultons are cool, but one of the annoying things about their marketing is the price-pointing of features. They have a relatively large Asian luxury market, and like to sell $15k+ Double Pylon models, which is understandable. However, I see no technical reason for even the cheaper models to not have their latest/greatest rear suspension elastomer. It might be $200 rather than $20 to produce, but it can be tuned with a pump, and dramatically improves the ability to work with varying rider weights. But how does one get that without being forced into the bike models starting at 3x the price? A similar thing can be said of the New Series forks, which dramatically reduce bobbing, allow lockout during climbing, and absorb shock *far* better. They are clearly far more expensive to produce than the originals, but again, the price jump is breathtaking. I'm guessing that if one were to compare the ride the top-end lightest, prettiest model with a 5lb heavier low-end model but with the better suspension bits, far fewer people would spend the extra $ on the stainless weight loss.

[@neverstoplookingUP]

shout out from the Philippines! any thoughts on Doppelganger folding bikes from Japan?

[@kobylisyzizkov]

My poor old TSR gets abused on far worst terrain than this, find Marathons work better than Marathon Plus which are too inflexible. The NS now with Continental Grand Prix takes forest tracks in its stride, a pity the narrow clearances do not enable more suitable tyres to be fitted for the really rough stuff. However the high torque of 20" wheels on any bike will dig into sand or mud making progress hard work.

[@maheshv1395]

Wanted to know why you guys do not ride/test bike friday. Isnt it the best of both worlds compared to packability and load carrying capability (moulton and brompton respectively)

[@markhancock7527]

you seem to have the front set up with lots of movement,try a harder spring,and tighten the front suspension up a bit,makes it much faster on the road and less bouncy on a climb.

[@jonbingham7525]

Like Karlgw asks - how about testing the Moutlon XTB gravel bike? It has V-brakes and room for 20x 2" tyres kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5ismXumhLd7qLc

[@jeffbrunton3291]

So the Moulton handles this fine, but question is - how would the Brompton manage, if at all?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

It would do it, but very slowly and you would really have to pick your lines.

[@zelada2020]

Per above, I used the Brompton several years on the Deschutes River trail. It worked well with Schwalbe plus tires as well. BUT it was hard on the Brompton. It is not used to the jarring of heavier gravel and more rocky conditions. The Deschutes is not a mountain bike trail, but has significant scree on the road farther up the river. [e-mail]

[@Clever-Cycles-Portland]

I've ridden this trail on my B, and plenty of other offroad stints. It's certainly do-able, surprisingly enjoyable, but there's no question that fatter tires, larger diameters, and more suspension is faster the worse the surface.

[@davidparry1982]

I'd always pick the big wheel equivalent vs a Moulton - AM designed them that way

[@markedconn2]

Nice. I use a 20" folder that has a carbon fiber frame . Works fine for not too bumpy trials. I use 20 x 1.5 tires. Check out rockbarcycling.

[@joseruben777]

These are 406 or 451 wheels?

[@ericpmoss]

406.

[@charlesrockwell3923]

I never had a problem riding my AM 14 on graded dirt roads. The Moulton carries a camping load very low and was actually easier to ride than a normal loaded touring bike on dirt roads. That said, I don't think the Moulton can compete with a wide supple tire Rinko bike for ride quality, efficiency, or portability.

[@seizedkeyboard]

Why no tyre change? Give the bike a chance.......

[@ralphgriesenbeck6961]

Fatter tires would help.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Yeah. Wanted to try it out with a stock build first tho.

[@smartbotX]

Hey does anyone know what's the lowest price these Moutons go for in the used market? I really want one of these but the price of a new one seems bit excessive to justify it's practicality; I ride the Dahon P8 as a commuter

[@markhancock7527]

Moulton's hold there price well so had to find a cheap one.

[@raul0ca]

I have an F frame series 1 or 2 I paid $400 for. It is by far my best bike far surpassing my $500 Look carbon road weenie machine

[@llkleyll]

@@raul0ca do you still have the F? Do you feel you need to "upgrade" to the newer Moulton model after having a F?

[@raul0ca]

@@llkleyll Still have it. It's my fun bike so I don't need to upgrade it. The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has some weird gearing but that's it

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

1'54" : "active suspension on the frame"... Did you mean the rider's leg muscles, joints and brain by that? Seriously, it's not an "active" suspension at all, it's just a suspension. In fact, as it doesn't even have shock absorbers but only sports a rudimentary kind of damping mechanism I would just call it a "rudimentary spring loaded suspension". Now, that aside, it does work, extremely well, for it's intended purpose. What the intended purpose is, I guess it's up to the individual rider to find out..

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

By active, I meant there are moving parts and not just relying on flexible properties of the frame material. The fork has a lot of travel for what it does, and I consider that pretty active in comparison to typical fork flex.

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

The term "active suspension" is very well known in engineering - and vehicle technology in particular- and has a very different meaning to the way you use it. I would suggest you look the term up. What you describe constitute generic properties of any suspension. Moreover, "flexible properties of the frame material" do not constitute a suspension per se. A frame and its suspension are generally distinct.