Graviton Lance VS Collective Obligation (which is better?)

Had a really fun time editing this one, hope you enjoy!
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Thanks to duck from the discord for answering my very important question :) and also thanks to Jude, I guess?
0:00 - 0:24 Intro
0:24 - 0:38 Similarities
0:38 - 0:58 Ranking Methodology
0:58 - 1:37 Elemental Synergy
1:37 - 2:14 Chain Reaction Capability
2:14 - 3:03 Ease-of-Use
3:03 - 3:55 Build Synergy
3:55 - 4:17 Ease-of-Acquisition
4:17 - 4:41 Feel
4:41 - 4:48 Results
4:48 - 5:06 Outro

[@heretomars]

Wow Thanks Llama! I'm now going to use Manitcore for EASY Boss DPS! (Please help me guys he forces me to post these)

[@omkee5297]

Nah, good use of slave labour

[@ingya_12]

THX to Llama, I was able to damage 69million to Nezarec with Manticore😂!

[@accountkim6686]

Hmm guys I think there is a hidden message here?

[@SB20333]

Blink twice if you're being held hostage

[@akaj2013]

Due to its Weaken and Suppression capabilities, my Void Warlock uses Collective Obligation for 1% of the content that actually requires a measured approach. I use Graviton for everything else.

[@DjLuCKyCHaRM]

Can you use graviton Lance against bosses, or better question where would you use this weapon? Lost sector, GM, raids?

[@Misterchief_78]

I never realized how silly having collective obligation with all 3 void verbs actually was until i took it for a spin and enemies literally couldn’t shoot back lmao 💀

[@dudeydude77_clips]

You didn’t mention that collective obligation get’s a 20% stacking damage buff while in the alt fire mode, and verb kills automatically reload the gun (which should increase its chaining score)

[@LlamaD2]

I didn't know about the 20% part, interesting.

[@jimpahnse4704]

the weapon got a big buff some time ago and that was a part of it (I think Hunter and Titan have the best synergy with it because Hunter Like mentioned in the Video and titan because of the controlled demolition Aspekt and weaken Fragment. with the supression nade you can get all three debuffs aktiv at ones.

[@NobleVI_343]

still sucks

[@dudeydude77_clips]

@@LlamaD2Yeah that’s one of the main reasons I started using it after the buff, you can imagine stacking a void surge modifier, void weapon surges on boots, the 15% weaken, 20% from the gun, and volatile rounds all together it’s a crazy amount of damage for a primary, plus 40% from it being an exotic on red bars, and being able to stun 2 champion types

[@dvdossbsvskfbdvav]

Even with this and the weaken effect, it still has less dps than grav lance. Personally I don't see any use for CO until master tier content as it's too much work for something that's not as good as graviton

[@greeksquad2884]

Honestly I think it has more to do with the type of content you are running. Collective obligation's insane capacity for cc and debuff spreading doesn't matter when all enemies die in a single burst, and vice versa as Graviton has trouble getting chains going in lower power content such as gms.

[@LlamaD2]

True, will consider this for the next weapon comparison!

[@shizounu2480]

One small gripe I have in terms of Graviton lances subclass verb interaction/synergy is that the explosions from kills can actually apply (through volatile rounds) and trigger volatile, further adding more damage and chain reaction capabilities to the weapon

[@ixxcerberusxxihoundofhell8162]

Collective Obligation is capable of stunning two types of champions, barrier when you have the Volatile Rounds perk i.e. Gyrfalcons, and Overload from leeching suppression off of a target. I crutched this for the Glassway GM’s when they were last in rotation. Perfect for keeping everything defenseless and mindless.

[@Vada7765]

Unfortunately, Collective can ONLY pop barrier shields when the Volatile Rounds buff itself is active. If only the Volatile "Leach" is active, or if the Suppression "Leach" is active (regardless of anything else) it will fail to pop barrier shields.

[@tsunamisurfer6595]

Best void exotic primary? Obviously the Fighting Lion

[@SunSun-sk4si]

Honestly though Fighting Lion is massively underrated for pve. It one-shots adds all the way into master and GM content, has solid aoe at baseline, and you can effectively double its fire rate by manually hitting reload as soon as the shot leaves the weapon. Not to mention you can stay incredibly mobile when using it since you never have to ads or stay grounded, and you can use it on any subclass without losing out on any of the weapon's perks. The only major issues with it are that 1) it has a fairly high skill curve before you're able to utilize it well, and 2) it doesn't have anywhere near as much void-based synergy as the other void exotics because you're already one-shotting enemies in an aoe anyways so you don't particularly need volatile (except for with Gyrfalcons where you can effectively have 100% invis uptime since almost every shot secures a kill)

[@robobobum]

The answer is Lemon, why are we having this discussion?

[@NobleVI_343]

real

[@gossipgaming5077]

Thank you so much! You just got me out of the doubt. Thank you! Great content 👍💪

[@AAG_Vanitas]

This is a really great and detailed video. 🙏

[@crabbit.]

Idk if you considered this but when Void Leech is active, Collective also gets a 20% damage buff. Also if you get any void debuffs applied to you, Collective will leech those as well.

[@Rios-ov3xi]

Okay but le’monarch Also, the scoring factors are a liiiiiitle bit random. Like, with this, mythoclast for example would score a 1 in half the categories, with its ease of use also not being particularly high, but it’s still a dummy good weapon in pve. Also, I will say, collective being a raid exotic can p make it less random and therefore easier in a way to get than graviton. If I made a new account with witchqueen and specifically wanted one of these two weapons, I’d have an easier time farming vow for collective than farming exotics hoping I eventually get lucky.

[@LlamaD2]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@pigslayer275]

Isn't there a quest for new lights that just gives them graviton for free

[@chlrin3290]

just wanted to add to this but you get exotics in a knockdown system meaning you'll never get a repeat until youve gotten everything. with recent updates exotics are very easy to get so assuming you're a new light playing on one character you'll have a higher chance and a guarantee of eventually landing graviton. plus getting things that arent graviton incrase your chance at graviton.however you are a new light with just witch queen you have to get past the barrier of entry of raiding and optimally run vow 1 time per character each week for collective. optimally you can also wait for it to be in rotation and farm rhulk checkpoint for collective which still has no guarantee. all in all graviton is much easier to get that collective along with collective having no guarantee like graviton.

[@NobleVI_343]

did you deadass say getting a raid exotic is easier than a world drop exotic gun...are you mental?

[@Rios-ov3xi]

@@NobleVI_343 I’m making a dumb point that if I reaaaallly wanted to get it, collective has a super clear way to farm for it, while graviton is a bit more random.

[@SpyroThunder]

Collective is very niche. In low end content it’s infinite volatile rounds can easily be matched by other weapons. And you don’t really need the weaken or suppress on every add in that case. In high end content like GM’s it really constricts your loadout. Although benefitting from teammates can help. The reward for doing this is one of the most powerful primary weapons. Making it so enemies can’t fight back, take 15% more damage from everyone and getting a damage boost from not only volatile rounds but also from the gun itself.

[@kingsolarbladesea8487]

I had this question for so long thank you so much.

[@allenparnell6170]

Fair scoring, great video. But I don't think Collective Obligation will ever let you kill one ad in a room and move on to the next the way Graviton does. Ease of use with that point alone puts it over Collective for me. But for cool factor and Void synergy obviously thats a no brainer

[@Will-od1gm]

the manticore took your comments personally 😂

[@Chiomerogamer]

What about hierarchy of needs as the best solar primary?

[@CosmicAngmar]

DIM link for build? 👉👈

[@syl_ster230]

Since trying Graviton with with Gyrfalcons I have not touched my Obligation at all. Graviton just hits like a freaking truck and watching one kill just wipe a room with void explosions that spread volatile to everything that gets hit. Then add a dodge to get your weakening smoke bomb back whenever you want and those Void Breaches to get it back in no time I just feel like Collective obligation is so useless compared to Graviton lance. At least on Gyrfalcon’s hunter. If you REALLY want that suppression you can slot in a supp nade and take advantage of that devour to get it back in those few scenarios you may need it. Therefore Graviton lance will only be slotted out of my Gyrfalcon’s loadout if I need to use a different exotic and even then I have my funnelweb

[@jakemeredith278]

I"ve used collective obligation for awhile and i must say it really excels in difficult content but it does take planning and good execution to be effective. I just got Graviton lance and ive been using it in onslaught, i must say i really like how easy it is to use coming from obligation. I love how strong it feels and it makes quick work of even yellow bar enemies. going to try legendary onslaught tonight and see how it holds up but so far I'll be using it over obligation. both are in a great place tho!

[@ghostrobot3714]

Graviton is fine if you don't wanna do the raid, but CO just takes everything to the next level. An underrated aspect for me is that CO is one of the more engaging weapons in the game, the minigame of acquiring and spreading the void verbs makes it feel truly exotic. I know some would just prefer a void Sunshot, which Graviton fulfills nicely, but I'll take CO's class synergy and gameplay loop all day every day. Amazing weapon.

[@jakemeredith278]

great way of putting it, couldnt agree more. I just got graviton and im enjoying how easy it is to use but nothing matches the unique experience of CO, which does indeed feel truly exotic.

[@loadingerror7426]

You might be alone on this one, Collective obligation is very niche and if it wasn't a raid exotic, itd be in everyone's vault.

[@dumbname1017]

I think Graviton is better paired with Gry than Collective is. Vorpal weapon and turnabout make it the ultimate anti barrier pulse when volitile rounds are active. It should at least be 4/5

[@gothiclb]

People sleep on turnabout, but it's a really solid perk

[@GravitonLance]

Plus comology and volatile are compatible

[@kyledea187mdkjr5]

@@gothiclbimo it would benefit more from Repulsor Brace over Turnabout

[@NobleVI_343]

@@kyledea187mdkjr5you dont need to be on void to proc turn, you need to debuff prime enemies on void to get brace

[@vegancardigan]

Isnt graviton lance a quest reward for completing new light void quest? The only easier to get exotic is risk runner it should be 5/5 on how easy it is to get it

[@voidwalker5634]

try collective obligation with bairbinds and with volatile rounds, weaken+volatile. but i run age old bond or word of crota, replusor brace + destabilising rounds

[@IsaacSurf735]

Great video, I just need one thing that being collective obligation 😂 but my lfg luck has never been good a vow being what it is probably won’t be kind to me especially through an LFG

[@grayhamcracker8060]

I honestly think the best defining feature is how easily you can access all three verbs. If your build can easily use all three verbs (ie Hunter with gyrfalcon with suppress grenade and melee), then Collective is much better. However if using builds with Briarbinds, Contraverse, Doom Fang, etc. it is a bit harder to access all three verbs since usually the exotics themselves have to be the focus or there are just better fragments to use. In these cases, Graviton Lance feels like the better gun since spreading the void kills is more of a priority than spreading the void debuffs. In the end, it all depends on if you wanna frag out more, Graviton, or spread around the debuffs which is useful in higher end content, Collective.

[@GravitonLance]

You can still spread volatile with graviton since cosmology synergyses with volatile

[@Nat11us]

Tbh biased, really biased. Collective obligation is big investment void exotic, reason? u need volatile round (which warlock and titan hard to trigger), second u will use suppression grenade to supress and weaken which again worst grenade (imo), third, it require very fast respond meaning you need o grab debuff before the mob dead, in many case, your teammate will kill it first before u steal debuff. Collective work as solo and special toward hunter only (it lot easy with hunter because chest armor) Graviton can use volatile round but it got outshine by graviton perk. Very easy to use even without brain. Warlock and titan can use it to fully potential. Conclusion, graviton is jacks of all trade (probably in same rank with sunshot and trinity bow) while collective is master of one thing

[@benshiperoismyhero9092]

Fighting lion has entered the chat.

[@Patterner]

Gravition Lance (because i actually have it)

[@sQuaTsiFieD]

Problem with collective obligation is to make it good/work you need to main the weapon the whole time and primary ammo just aint it with how abundant special and heavy is in this game right now. You probably need to use AL weapons with it like rockets and GLs or maybe even parasite just to quickly dump high burst. Otherwise your probably just priming for teammates the whole time.

[@gamesdoesrobin]

i'd say that's not a terrible downside considering you'll be making heavy on every 15th kill or so, and you can always swap off it for a special when you need major burst

[@scarletsun04]

grav lance is the true god of void(right after manticore)

[@OiaHusk]

Honestly I'd say to bring CO down to 1/5 for Ease of Acquisition since imo, Vow is probably the hardest raid in the game currently, and that is a major factor in ranking it for me.

[@deathblock901]

Then I got lucky cus collective was my first ever raid weapon I got in destiny 2 and I got it in 7 clears

[@kyledea187mdkjr5]

I mean you can always go into an LFG teaching run and learn there

[@NobleVI_343]

@@kyledea187mdkjr5still, banking on getting lucky in a raid setting for majority of players will always be beat by a world drop exotic that straight outclasses it unless in gms

[@roundraccoon6141]

Maybe an idea for a video. Many lfg people believe switching weapons makes a difference in the chalice charge speed. I can confirm from personal testing with just a stopwatch that the chalice charges in 30 ±0.5 seconds reguardless of how many times you swap your weapons. The only ways to speed it up is by you or allies near you killing ads.

[@chnops619]

Jokes on you! Manticore is actually usable nowadays

[@DuqkD2]

Lorentz Driver is the best void primary ackchually :)

[@jamescruz8678]

Literally all Graviton Lance needs is a speed up when triggering Cosmology. It's so frustrating when I kill someone, only for their body to fly out in the opposite direction of the group and hit nothing because it takes so long for the explosion to happen. It didn't even need the RPM buff.

[@Scarletthespud]

I feel like collective is better when champs are involved as on a gyfalcons hunter it can deal with overload and barrier by itself while gravaton is better in lower tier content

[@DustiestBoar734]

monarque just crying in the corner

[@ChromeQuake]

TLDR: if you have a brain or Gyrfalcons, lmao obligation. However if youre lazy, sleep deprived, or a Tower of Fantasy player, go graviton.

[@ExpertRam]

The biggest thing i don't like about grav lance is how some enemy types don't count for the explosion, it makes it so clunky to use in various activities

[@davidgabrieltaylor]

Youre talking about void weapons and made a ease of use for non void subclasses to use? If im solar or strand or arc im not using any of these weapons anyways so who cares?

[@celsonjunior9376]

if manticore gave devour weakened and volatile then and only then it would be considered a real exotic

[@onearmtanner9301]

If we’re talking best void primary le monarch and fighting lion both deserve a shoutout

[@albertsheakspear]

You missed the biggest problem of collective obligation The scope

[@lazykb]

Actually thunderlord is the best arc weapon! Looks like you made a mistake Llama

[@LlamaD2]

damn my bad!

[@ImpatientPlatypus]

Yes especially for boss dps!

[@poortrashcan]

collective also auto reloads when you have devour

[@sauceinmyface9302]

Graviton Lance's exotic perk doesn't work on Harpies, so that makes it a zero out of 100.

[@Twelvis69]

graviton just has way more dps at base according to quantum damage-ics spreadsheet. 7117/4589 is like 55% more dps. I dont believe this is even including vorpal or turnabout which graviton also gets.

[@magentamoth621]

Graviton best for Voidlocks, why use collective for void attributes when both come from your grenade. Nezerac’s Sin just grants too much grenade energy with devour on top

[@Eli.D2]

❤

[@deathblock901]

There’s a reason why collective is my 3rd most used weapon lol

[@the-slunch]

ease of acquisition should not matter in the slightest

[@GiffyMcgee]

I was hoping for some damage testing, these scoring categories feel pretty arbitrary to me

[@LlamaD2]

considered this, but since they're primary weapons I didn't really see the point

[@fastmovingvolcanomatter]

0:18 Lemonbow seething rn

[@randommixedletters]

30 seconds in and I'm more livid about stating 'clearly sunshot's the best' for solar when Ticcu's is just right there man. Late game scaling, still impeccable ad clear, sunshot can deal with them red bars for certain but so can my Calus Mini tool to an equally effective degree. But Ticcu's lets me deal with that Brig on the side as well. Only other thing is the 2/5 for ease of use on Collective I feel is entirely unfounded and should probably be 1/5. You basically put up a laundry list of to-do's and a MASSIVE restriction in being locked to void verses Graviton, and then said '2/5' like there was somehow a positive there that deserved an extra point. I only bring this up because it feels like bias just to make collective 'better' when you could have just put that bias in feel and done the same thing xD (but this is a nit pick point it's just amusing to me that the guns are literally equal to one another outside of this in terms of 'scoring'). But yeah, at the end of the day it comes down to if you're on void. If you're on void, collective is better regardless of what you are doing, as ready easy access to volatile on any class after just procing it once is a godsend and you can infinite chain it thanks to how they edited the perk. Main reason you see graviton is that it you know...is still an exotic when not on void XD so you can pop it on as a strand hunter for instance and still be near completely as capable as you'd be if you where on void, just losing out on the volatile rounds. So yeah, if void = Collective, if not = graviton. Also try Collective with Briar binds, easy access to weaken on a much faster cooldown, can get suppress with a grenade if you want, and then just melee hit something to volatile it then kill it with collective to charge that and you're set forever. Good stuff with infinite childs and suppressed targets forced to stand next to them.

[@NobleVI_343]

Ticuu is good, but it is niche unless in gm content, in master it isn't as good as sunshot, point blank, and it's arrows dont single break antibarrier, which sucks ass on a bow with draw time. the hip aim explosion combo is quite nice when plinking in gms is your only other option.

[@buckledwheat6299]

⁠@@NobleVI_343ticuus entire niche is perfect for GMs. You are talking about sunshot. Ticuus is much better in GMs than sun shot, which isn’t really good in that type of content.

[@NobleVI_343]

that's exactly what I'm trying to say lol@@buckledwheat6299

[@elliehugg]

this video is a bit ... they clearly serve different purposes, i dont know how comparable they really are tbh,

[@br-4341]

I got graviton lance from ikora when i started the game, she just gave it to me

[@mkim1526]

I'm disappointed but not surprised that the fighting lion hasn't gotten any love

[@hahayay1086]

option 3 wavesplitter is better than all of these

[@oldschoolbeat1984]

graviton lance does way more damage has vorpal weapon and turnabout :)

[@jokeis8684]

I always use manticore

[@Cabnr310]

You made manticore cry. Not cool bro 😢

[@winedano]

It’s Le Monarque

[@Storm8031]

Personally I prefer riskrunner for arc but trinity is good as well.

[@xXMercah03_]

Did the comment section miss felwinters helm😂

[@xXMercah03_]

I only say cuz I use the exotic with collective, finishers WEAKEN nearby targets pair with echo of cessation (VOLATILE) and SUPPRESSION grenade!

[@xXMercah03_]

Additionally you can add echo of undermining for weaken as well with instability for grenade kills to proc volatile rounds! The last fragment is optional but I use obscurity to become invisible to get out of messy situations if I decide to finish near ads

[@marzero116]

Build synergy is where you lost me. The void chain reactiona. Nez helm is 5/5

[@jeffw3905]

Collective is king

[@duncanhawk4500]

I just la monarch

[@plugoneone]

Fighting Lion

[@Trapster]

We all know Graviton Lance is cooler

[@flingza1798]

Wrong its funnelweb

[@Aman-vo8mk]

Le monarque better then both

[@bloodthedragon3788]

Graviton is overrated honestly. Collective obligation is objectively the best option strictly due to void builds

[@db1872]

Suppression nades are terrible

[@Ellyark]

wait people think collective obligation is good? shit is literally garbage tier

[@AverageHomosapienGeezer]

I don't like void ngl

[@Uzi-Exo]

First

[@PpTheGreatest]

This has to be one of your worst ever videos Llama. Your categories are arbitrary and include irrelevant ones while missing out on several relevant ones. Your points system is arbitrary; giving Graviton 1/5 for class synergy but Collective 2/5 for ease of use is incoherent. You're comparing an apple to an orange. It lacks a great deal of the detail these weapons deserve. Not a fan of this one, unfortunately.

[@bigt1406]

inshallah manticore will never be good

[@GravitonLance]

I am better

[@NobleVI_343]

The Le Monarque in question: