GREATEST RACING ERA?! NASCAR Fan Reacts To "Group B: When Rallying Got TOO FAST"

[@Jon.Cullen]

It should be remembered that on of the factory Audi drivers in Group B was a French girl called Michelle Mouton, and came close to winning the championship (runner up) in 1982. Never really given enough credit for her achievements.

[@TheZad101]

I totally agree with you.

[@hullster9970]

Careful son, modern sexism dictates you treat her like all the rest.....so basically another racing driver that didnt win. Or, are you really insisting we put the fact she is female first ?

[@Suprahampton]

She also won Pikes Peak

[@Jon.Cullen]

@@hullster9970 She got the drive on merit, not because she was female. By today's standards, there could be an argument for an accusation of affirmative action, but back in the 1980's, that was simply not the case. Louise Aitken Walker was another example of a female driver succeeding on merit. Neither of them had their cars painted pink!

[@raiden88]

kitchen

[@Concorde4711]

11:30 "Understeer is when you see the tree that you about to crash into. Oversteer is when you just hear it." - Walter Röhrl

[@MarcAmAlb]

Röhrl was quite a character!

[@brycewellington1935]

Beautiful

[@Cobalt-Jester]

That rule that 200 cars needed to made before they'd be entered into the rally. Lacia came up with a great tactic. The rally bosses turned up at the Lancia factory and Lancia showed them 100 Lancia Delta's. Lancia then told the Rally officials the other 100 was at the other factory across town. Lancia then took the officials to the other factory but the stopped of for a bit of lunch on the way. While they were eating lunch the Lancia staff took the 100 cars that they had just seen to the other site. They finished their lunch and then they took to officials to the other site and showed them the same 100 cars they had seen an hour earlier. Hahaha. Things like that made Group B so interesting. Not only were they pushing car tech they were pushing rule bending and other slight rule breaking. The Audi team wanted 4WD to be allowed so in the final meeting of car regulations the Audi boss waiting until right at the end and just when everyone was getting up to leave they said "Can we put a 4WD car in?".. Anyone just wanted to get out of there so they regulation bosses just said "yes, fine, whatever". Audi put in their 4WD Quattro and it destroyed all the other teams. lol.

[@andregon4366]

The 80's were crazy. Crazy and epic.

[@AVDB95]

There's also the one time that audi entered trans am with an audi 200 quattro and were defeating the american V8 cars. During the season they were twice made to put extra weight in the car to level the playing field yet kept preforming the best and ended up winning the compitition. At the end off the year all wheel drive and engines made outside the US were banned. Audi was doing some crazy things in that era.

[@mhh7544]

I saw these cars live when I was a kid, Toivonen was my superhero. RIP Henkka and Sergio.

[@luis.o.saraiva]

FIA also runs the le mans endurance series which has 24 le mans. They are the ultimate ruling body of motorsports, because comprises all the national auto racing federations. It's like COi for olympics or FIBA in basketball

[@Lonestar1430]

If you see the tree you're about to crash on, it's understeer. If you don't see it, but feel the blow, it's oversteer.

[@Hammerhead547]

Fun Fact: Rally fans of the time would reach out to touch the cars as they passed, as a result of this it wasn't uncommon for crews too find severed fingers in air intakes on the cars. Lancia crew members are known to have recovered at least 2 severed hands in the rear air intakes of the Delta S4 during the 1985 season.

[@alloyd759]

I used to watch the RAC Lombard rally going through the Welsh mountain stages VERY close to where i live....it was WILD but BRILLIANT! When a car crashed and got stuck ... the supporters used to push them back on the the track! I actually helped to push a lot of the best rally drivers back onto the track including Michele Mouton!

[@tarajones6923]

true story, Lancia only made 100, showed the 100 to the FIA inspectors , then took them for a long lunch, Italian style, meanwhile moved the 100 cars already seen to another car park and showed the inspectors same 100 again .. class

[@gabriellourenco4334]

...True story, but it happened with the "Old Man from Maranello" (Enzo Ferrari) when it was time for the homologation of the 250 GTO; Cesare Fiorio (Lancia's Team Principal) didn't like to "play fast and loose" with the regulations...

[@Peter_Joshua]

The ingenious of Italiano. 😂

[@IanDarley]

You should check out Michele Mouton - The most successful female rally driver, she drove for Audi in Group B.

[@lextex3280]

Loved going to watch the group B rally in the 80s. Now I take my kids to see the RAC when I can. 😁. Great fun.

[@Julian-1984]

You need to watch when the American racing band audi from racing, due to them kicking butt in racing when audi raced in America, they won basically everything and got band by america

[@karlmeadows4986]

Pikes peaks record got slammed by the audi sport ,

[@Pi_r8]

Yes, soon after group B ended, Audi went to 🇺🇸. First with Audi 200 Trans AM, kicking their V8's out the park. Then with Audi 90 Quattro IMSA GTO. The US motorsports imposed so many obstacles to stop them winning. 😳

[@Pi_r8]

Secrets of Speed : Unfair Advantage. This video covers all three formats.

[@rmyikzelf5604]

12:14 as the video explains to correct understeer the audi drivers had to keep the throttle open to force the backend out (and then correct for the usually resulting oversteer again). The video shows this very well at this point where first the nose won't turn in until more power is applied to turn the backend of the car and then the nose wants to dive into the apex too fast requiring steering correction and less power)

[@InquisitiveBaldMan]

FIA (French words) is more of a world motorsport council. France is very much the birthplace of the motorcar. The paris motorshow was key to the start of and development of cars and motorsport. Series under them include, F1, FE, Edurance series (le mans etc), World Rally, World Touring cars, World Karting, World Rallycross and certify land speed records.

[@toomasargel8503]

14:17 Lancia 037 was powered by Ferrai 8 cyclindes where was 2 cilynders cut off and that V 6 was faster then Lancia Delta Evo HF .

[@DinoPon3]

That was honestly the best description of Understeer and Oversteer.

[@observingrogue7652]

Car Throttle did a great video explaining oversteer, understeer, and how to tune for both.

[@mhh7544]

After initial 200, the teams only needed additional 20 cars manufactured to get on EVO version, so in 1986 EVOS produced 500-600 horsepowers.

[@robhallam8047]

Nailed it guys....this is a real find and explained so much!! I was privileged to be a marshal at the RAC Rally at Chatsworth in the 80's and the adrenaline rush of a Group B car passing within inches of you at stupid speeds was off the scale!! Brit spectators were not quite as crazy as the Europeans but we still got close....just not on the outside of a bend!!

[@mariaisabelcarrillo6315]

Back then many mechanics were shock to find cars splattered with blood or even with fingers pieces, and one spectator was proud to say that a champion driver broke his leg!

[@fishtigua]

Guys, there was a Rally stage in Germany right next to the F1 track. Those Group B cars were overtaking the F1 cars doing practice, while being offroad.

[@DC3Refom]

bliming heck

[@Ryan_Christopher]

I don't know if Group A became Group N, but Group N was the Production Category in the '90s onwards. That's where your Subaru Imprezas, Mitsubishi Galant VR4s, Toyota Celica GT-4s, and Delta Lancia Integrales come-in, celebrated in video games like Sega Rally Championship Arcade. The Galant was the prototype platform that gave way to the Lancer Evolution. Ford came-in with their Escort Cosworth, and Toyota changed to the Corolla Turbo after the Celica coupe was neutered. Subaru still had the Impreza with STi. I don't know about the classes today, apart from the WRC Category which understand is the top-tier, but not tied to the old 5,000-car production requirement.

[@ant16rst]

Great video guys thanks 👍

[@fishtigua]

Oh, Spencer, did you get my tweet? We got pinged by Huey Morgan from the Fun Lovin' Criminals.

[@module79l28]

Group B didn't end because it was too dangerous, it ended because the moron who was in charge of FIA at the time put entertainment and money ahead of the implementation of the measures needed to make the cars safer for the drivers/co-drivers and the stages safer for the spectators.

[@markjones127]

Group B spanned my teen years and I live in an area with many Rally stages used in the World and British Rally, so always go to watch when the rally is in town, back in the 80's any kid who loved cars had a massive poster of an Audi Quattro on their bedroom wall, they were just such iconic cars, amazing, I love seeing all the vintage rally cars still being used in the British rally when it's here, there's loads of them and watching them burn up and down the local roads between stages is amazing, they're so brital and the noise incredible, it's chilling, they sound like they want to kill you!!! 🤣

[@knowlesy3915]

How good though, does the Lancia 037 look?

[@stumpy2000]

Good isn't the word... magnificent is a better one!!!

[@Lead_Foot]

For a little while now wrc cars have gotten really crazy aero kits that are designed to not lose as much downforce when sideways.

[@heroicrockstar]

That Audi 5 pot sound is awesome 😊

[@mhh7544]

Year before Henri and Sergio died, another Lancia pilot Attilio Bettega died in his 037 on same course Tour De Corsica , its a cursed special stage.

[@peterwesterback5875]

If I don't remember wrong, the Delta S4 that Henri Toivonen and Sergio Cresta died in did 0-100 kmh in just over 2 sek...... on snow

[@IanDarley]

The FIA govern all sorts of international autosports. They are also involved in safety advances and regulatory advice for road vehicles safety worldwide.

[@petermallia558]

Also remember they didn't even bother to change the number plates as no plate or chassis numbers where recorded when inspecting the cars.

[@gizmomypet4359]

The BBC documentary about group B called Madness on wheels:rallyings craziest years is an awesome doc about the whole group B period

[@MrBlakemortimer]

The first pilote in audi quattro is wowen!!! Michèle Mouton Respect please

[@stevehartley7504]

Understear front goes slightly to side sliding on road Overstear back wants to get ahead of front as the back comes around

[@StephenButlerOne]

Pronlem with no regulations is cardnoard roll bars are far lighter than metal ones

[@alimantado373]

Current Rally Sardinia , Italy should interest you, Im a F1 fan but noting ever topped WRC and rally.

[@valtterifani]

Hannu Mikkola once said about Audi: The harder you drove the better it handled and drove.

[@quattrotobi]

Understeering is horrible, if you go faster. You have to get grip again on the front wheels or you go just straight in the corner. Oversteering is much easier to control if the rear wants to break out. You can drift a corner but you cant stay on the road if your front axle loses grip or contact to the ground om a corner. You can try to "handbeak" it. xD

[@Enlightened-WOLF]

im from the uk i was lucky enough to have seen them in the wild under power i was 14 and there was a stage in a country park about 1 mile from my school and they let some of us go watch who had taken gym class because we had 6 periods and dinner all together so from 12pm we had 1 hour dinner then 6 . 30 min gym classes until 4pm then school was finished so we had all afternoon watching them with no supervision in a forest i think that was what got me into fast cars what we call hot hatches small cars with powerful engines im 50 now and still drive fast daily drivers the jag i have now does 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds its a 10yo diesel

[@bigbird2100]

Great video 👍The general opinion is Group B was Formula one on dirt😮!

[@davidkells3957]

You should have a look at a car called MG Metro 6r4

[@johnkotlarz4466]

The easy way to remember the difference is... Understeer means you see the tree that is going to kill you Oversteer means it is a surprise...

[@mcstaal]

With boost pressure up to 4,5 bar or 65,25 pounds per square inch, the granate effect was a factor.

[@Above.majestic75]

The 1990 blonde colored one looks restored

[@petsandpaws8906]

The FIA isnt just Formula 1. F1 is just the highest class of the many classes or categories under the FIA umbrella. Just like DTM, F2, F3, F4, WRC, WRX, Porsche supercups, WEC, Ferarri competitions, Clio Cup, etc etc etc

[@corringhamdepot4434]

I remember the same thing happened to Formula 1 racing, when it was expected that several drivers would be killed every year.

[@herytik4027]

Group B was the top class. They got the most talented motor sport engineers and said GO FUCKING MENTAL

[@StephenButlerOne]

Probably the biggest issue was the insane exponential power gains over such a short time. Hevier Cars went form about 200bhp to much ligher with about 600bhp in about 3 years. (Add alot of safty cuts) the drivers didnt have time to adapt, they was thr best of the day, but you cant go form a golf to a Ferrari over nignt on graval and it all be smoth sailing.

[@plinioeljoven_]

The power of the cars was much more than he told. L037 250hp? Never... Declared 350hp but only declared. It had over 400-450hp at least. They always lie because the competition. 220hp is the power of a 70's 2.0 aspirated rally car. You can imagine...

[@maleboglia1775]

Experts speak of up to 700 hp in 1986, the last year of Group B. That means an increase in performance of 50-100 hp per year. CRAAZYYY!🤯

[@c3gfboy7]

The delta S4 could have potentially hit 1000BHP

[@4llu_]

delta s4 that Henri Toivonen drove had 800bhp on some stages @@c3gfboy7

[@rebbojar2475]

That's why the rally was created, to promote car brands, that's why they had to keep the bodywork, with the option inside the cars for racing mechanics, and the one who won the whole series in the championship that year (for example, let's call it AUDI QUATTRO Group B, that's what it was actually called: the best car of the year is for all roads, is the Audi Quattro). That's why the Rally is driven on closed public roads for everyone to see :)

[@rocon86]

Audi was the 1st manufacturer to see the huge advantage of having 4 wheel drive but there was a problem, 4 wheel drive was not allowed according to the rulebook at the time, only a RWD or FWD car was allowed. So Audi went to the FIA to get the rules changed.

[@karlmeadows4986]

They didn't get the rules changed, they asked an official at the end of a meeting and the official laughed and said if you want

[@toomasargel8503]

What rpm You use most on YOUR car ?

[@hairlokk8672]

fia is the international carsport federation

[@andrewmogg-jm6jw]

The superb Jensen FF "Ferguson Formula" 4 Wheel Drive grand tourer superceded the Audi by some 14 years.

[@petermallia558]

Hello lads. Peter from London England. I enjoy watching with you when watching your reactions. If you like this, then I reckon you'd enjoy The BTCC, the British Touring Car Championship, there is a WTCC World TCC, although most would agree that the BTCC is the best domestically run Touring car Championship. Try it, you'll enjoy it hist as much as everything else we in Britain have given the world. 🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇺🇲🇦🇺🇳🇿🇨🇦

[@addy__dassler679]

We still get in Whalter rRoehrl

[@Colin_UK_Freeman]

Keep this trans Atlantic knowledge swapping going. Can't wait for ya to come UK and see it for real. 1 love y'all.❤

[@thomasmclaren8161]

The FIA is the Federation of International Autosport

[@almostyummymummy]

Mmmmmm. Lancia. My wife and I have two. The S4 and the Integrale. We gave our now 19 year old daughter my beloved Saab 900 two years ago. Italians know how to do cars.

[@mlee6050]

Yeah 4WD is awesome, as Spencer said AWD when meant 4WD, I wonder how an AWD version would compare to 4WD on speed

[@kevinty7]

Great reaction boys🫶🏽👍🏽Daniel, please flip your camera🙌🏽🙏🏽

[@damightyshabba439]

If you want a bit of a giggle, look up when Volvo announced that they were going to be running an Estate in the BTCC back in the 90's... They had put out lots of rumours that they had a "game changer" and kept the car secret. All the other teams drivers and mechanics attended the launch. They opening laughed and ridiculed Volvo at the event, blatantly taking the piss as the box on wheels was revealed. A box on wheels that won every race in sight for the next couple of years. (Well, most - lots of crashes and a couple of tech issues, but you get what I mean). I'm no Volvo fan at all, but i have to admit I loved the way they smiled serenely as everyone took the piss out of them at the launch and just thought silently "See you on the track, suckers". 2 Years later, pretty much every UK police car was a Volvo estate. As for Group B... they really should bring it back, but just ban spectators. Or at least severely limit spectator access. The idea of an un-capped, un-limited class of racing is simply too good to ignore - and if the drivers are willing to risk it, why not? It was the idiot spectators getting killed that got Class B put out of business.

[@adsyoffinch]

Well for one year, they were replaced by saloons after the first year but you’ve got to respect Tom Walkinshaw Racing for what they got those big ol’ cars to do!

[@darceylawrence5440]

I fond it funny how rally cars of today are just as fast as Group B

[@asicdathens]

And the manufacturers knew that these 200 homologation vehicles would sell like hot cakes at exuberant prices. Peugeot had to make more due to heavy demand

[@adriendebosse6941]

I've read/heard that they discouraged people from buying the road version of the T16 (like other manufacturers), because those were dangerous cars

[@Drescher1984]

I do believe FIA is more like FIFA. F1 is owned by some American broadcasting network, can't remember which.

[@Fonetiker]

Liberty Media

[@gummibrot4948]

Group B A car manufacturer on the way to becoming a premium brand invents a conventional car with massive experimental technology. Everything in the place where the customer will find it later.Turbo, Quattro all-wheel drive, five-cylinder in the front. Peugot and Lancia don't have street cars of this caliber. So they build silhouette cars in the form of city cars with explosively arranged experimental technology in the interior. Audi finds that unsportsmanlike. You can't buy a car like that. And goes. Group B ends.

[@rmyikzelf5604]

Group B was was anything but stock. Purpose built tube frames, custom engines and suspension with only the outside of the car resembling the regular road car. Only 200 built and probably street-legal in a limited number of jurisdictions.

[@neilglenn807]

Rover Metro 6R4.. 0-60 mph in 2.4 seconds.

[@sammy4538]

Current WRC hybrid cars are faster than group B cars were... tires and aero have impoved a lot since, amongst a lot of things, also combined power outputs are 450-500hp now, with instant torque... not sure if there has ever been as fast cars during rally history, as there are now - atleast average- and top speeds have grown, I would assume acceleration aswell. Group B sure was great - but modern WRC is pretty much equally mindblowing.

[@c3gfboy7]

The engine alone is about 350 ish - the current inline 4 engines

[@rmyikzelf5604]

The FIA is to motorsport what FIFA is to football (soccer). Federation Internationale de l'Automobile.

[@clockdva20]

The FIA is the Govening body for all Motor Sport in the World that includes all Formula racing , plus Sport cars and all forms of racing and Rallying. However at this time point there was a power struggle going on to take control of the FIA by the controling power within F1. V the then FIA leadership Group B rallying and Group C Sportcar racing both had a open anything goes rule book and very quickly started to draw much attentions and more TV coverage. This at the cost of F1. In the case of Rally at that point it was a sport that for the most was free other than a few charged for stages. This led to crowds number upwards of 200.000 spectators on any given stage. You can imagin how hard it was to control such amounts of people. Those running F1 were not to happy about their sport be challenged as the top tear racing series. But fate would solve this issue for F1 and in turn bring down the leadership of the FIA and open the Door for F1 to get their man elected to the president of the FIA the way it would stay for decades afterwards. Group B was banned before that but Rally was returned to a road car only format and over the years this style of rallying was replaced with the modern WRC format on closed stages with charged entry. and of the Sprint format. Group C sportscars would slowly follow as F1 kept its sport at the top. Modern Rallying is a shadow of its past glory. Though not to take anything away for the drivers in the modern times it still takes guts to drive at such high speed were one mistake can end in disaster. But from the the point of veiw of some one who lived through Group B and saw these cars at full speed rally as lost so much over the years.

[@marianmarkovic5881]

Rallye is still dangerous bussines, and for example Dakar got countles drivers and visitors killed

[@adamduffy311]

Think of it this way AN EX F1 DRIVER TRYED NASCAR OUT AND I THINK HE WON A FEW RACES ?. But only Colin Mc Cray didn’t PASS ON AND HE COULD HAVE GIVEN NASCAR A RUN FOR THERE MONEY ?. Because Rally Driver’s learn all of the Skills needed for ALL DRIVING SPORTS FROM DRIFTING TO KEEPING THE CAR ON THE TRACK ! WELL FOR THE MOST PART ?.

[@Stoep-zt4lb]

Group B Is like bergrenne ?

[@mpainter22]

Ironically, the current WRC cars would destroy a group B car on a stage

[@EmanueleDN]

In between there are only a few decades of technological evolution. I don't know if we realize how far away the eighties are now.

[@sirswerve2493]

Group B is King.

[@IronMetal]

If you don't understand what's understeer and oversteer you don't have a clue about cars and racing, and despite the answer is "correct" it lacks a lot of understanding

[@anthonysteele9159]

Lancia only actually made 100 and then moved those cars from 1 field to another to fool the inspectors

[@stevehartley7504]

Group B ended but ray is alive and well

[@rickybuhl3176]

Oversteer/understeer - let Lightning McQueen explain it. Go watch Cars again :) 'Turn right to go left' - Good advice for correcting the oversteer..

[@squidcaps4308]

"Arias and the Nation"? That is either stupid joke or.. Not the kind of text i would've put up.. A bit too close to.. you know what i'm talking about.

[@jan-peterbrodersen3302]

Group B became actually more popular than Formula 1.

[@CM-ey7nq]

"you had to lift your foot from the ga... accelerator." It's OK, you can say gas pedal, wont lose any Euro or Brit audience from it :)

[@michaeltaylor8835]

Audi got 500hp out of 5cylinders

[@IanDarley]

He made a booboo here. He said that the Audi transmission was under the engine, it wasn't, it was behind it.

[@Sdeburca2012]

Hi the second evolution of the Audi Quattro Rally car can beat a modern Audi Quattro in a Drag Race!!!!!

[@mataba8026]

yes But the modern ones still have the same problem. My 22 model do have understeer issues when do high speed corners. But ofc, you can just floor it and make it oversteer.... Then the modern safety things start blinking and "screaming"

[@darrenheapy1265]

Bathurst🇦🇺

[@whygreed]

An then there was Colin mc are

[@nothernmonkey8612]

TONI BOU is a trials rider who's never been beaten in 16 years of competition he's a 32 Times world champion his motorbike skills are mind blowing trials is like putting a 250cc engine into a mountain bike then jumping over obstacles and the person with the most points loses scoring like golf least points wins

[@MSkallywagg]

NASCAR is for toddlers compared to this

[@AndrewRoberts11]

The Isle of Man TT, alone, has eliminated 265 riders, not counting the Spectators, and sends hundreds to the local hospital each year, and it's but one Superbike event. Canning the whole Group B series for 2 deaths 🤬 shows the difference between the FIA and FIM's management.

[@willrichardson1809]

I am all for Natural Selection policing public spaces, it would make a better world ;)

[@mik9124]

You Automatic Driver know realy nothing about how to drive a Car Fast and stabil

[@ANDREBODO-fe9rk]

nly the B Group ended !!!