WHY didn't he LISTEN?? | Korean Air Cargo 8509

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December 22nd, 1999
Flying an airliner is a complex task. It requires highly trained pilots working together to get hundreds of tonnes of metal and people safely into the air. The margin for error is small, and when mistakes do happen, they can be catastrophic.
When things go well, this complexity looks like clockwork - each of the components interlinking seamlessly, and ticking away the flight.
The story of Korean Air flight 8509 is a dark and complex one. Its cogs and wheels are psychological, technological, and even cultural. When the clockwork of this flight burst open just seconds after takeoff on December 22nd 1999, it revealed deep rooted problems in the aviation industry - problems which would need to be reckoned with, fast.
This is the story of Korean air flight 8509.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Click my link to download Opera for free! opr.as/yiu-greendotaviation Thanks to Opera for supporting the channel ✈

[@sailaab]

Nicely researched and presented and one of the most intermingled and complex ones.

[@michal_wes]

what sim do you use for these videos? is it X-Plane11 or something?

[@aramchek]

Do you really need an ad break every 3 minutes? Because that makes this unwatchable.

[@lolcakes118]

@@aramchek ublock origin? KZbin controls the ads, not the creator.

[@adambombzify]

keep the old intro. that song with the green dot animation is iconic

[@Eridanya]

I work for an aircraft maintenance company, and they used part of your videos in a saftey presentation I had to attend. I recognized the tone and everything as a regular watcher. Cheers

[@elevul]

They didn't credit him?

[@4n4Queen]

​@@elevulI don't think so.

[@tek87]

@@4n4Queen They probably just browsed to KZbin and played the video. No need to pirate whats free.

[@LateNightCigars]

Jeez... I wouldn't want my plane maintained by this company.

[@MichaelOosthuizen-rf9de]

😊

[@bella9282]

Just wanted to thank you for all you do. My grandfather passed a few weeks ago, and the last couple of times I went to visit, we would watch your videos together. He’s always had an interest in engineering, whether it be cars, ships, or planes, but neither of us realized the other was interested in accident investigations. Your work will always be dear to my heart and remind me of the time I got to spend with him.

[@GreenDotAviation]

That's very touching, thanks for sharing

[@bobgomez9481]

Cool story bro

[@bella9282]

@@bobgomez9481 you say that like you don’t believe it, lmfao

[@bella9282]

@@OutoftheEchoChamber honestly wasn’t even bothered by it, more confused than anything. But I’m so sorry for your loss. I don’t know if you feel similarly but I feel that it’s really beautiful to have had a relationship special enough to miss them as much as we do. Thank you for sharing 🩷

[@mrkipling2201]

​@@bella9282I totally agree. My brother passed away in 2021 aged 40, and my very good friend died last year. He was 86 but it was totally unexpected as he was in good health until the day he went. I was his carer. So I lost my friend, job and home, all at once. I'm sorry for your loss, my condolences.

[@chrisburns2608]

The fact that the first officer never spoke up during the entire emergency is truly sad

[@Jabarri74]

When his instruments were showing imminent doom, at what point does survival instinct kick in? He said nothing as was reported on the video. Seems the engineer was the only one with a grasp of the situation.

[@arjunhamdalah4139]

​@@Jabarri74the moment he said "oy, bank".

[@davidcerrato8797]

As someone in the military, the First Officer resigning himself to just being a passive bystander and not actually growing a pair to stand up to his superior is what caused this. Sometimes your superiors are out of touch asshats who have no idea what they're talking about, and if they're allowed to follow through with their plan, it'll inevitably lead to very bad consequences for his or her team. It's up to the subordinates to think critically, recognize the situation, grow a pair, speak up, and call out their superior to prevent avoidable tragedies and unnecessary complications. This whole culture thing in Korea and Korean military is utter nonsense.

[@annakeye]

@@davidcerrato8797 It was and is still prevalent in some airlines.

[@indianfan1029]

Afterall they are Koreans. We tend to think of South Koreans and North Koreans as opposites. And it may be true in some aspects but culturally they may be closer than different.

[@annoorange123]

As someone who only knows what happens in the cockpit from KZbin, i cannot comprehend this story. Captain had thousands of hours of flight, aware of the instrument failure from the previous flight, warnings both audible and visual, his inputs didnt match the instruments and FE mentioned bank, yet he didn't react in any way?! This is crazy

[@arjunyg4655]

different crew on the two flights, but yeah still, crazy to dismiss an ADI compare warning with no cross check of the ADI…

[@jenmuck]

As someone who.. the fog. The fog is coming.

[@AnoNym-zi5ty]

The first crew knew the ANU failed and could have written it down more clearly.

[@TheUrantia001]

suicide obviously....

[@jeh1333]

Arrogance and egos cost lives!

[@vennisemae7049]

so sad how arrogance, pride, and selfishness was the reason that lives were lost... this is so prevalent in korean culture specifically in the older generations and this reminds me of the sewol ferry tragedy which took more than 300 lives with a majority of them being children. great video as always, mr. green dot!! :)

[@1398go]

With decades, maybe hundreds of years of Korean culture ingrained in each Korean, time would have never predicted that flying a big metal machine would test their culture when inside that cockpit. The sad but best way is to learn, and at times learn from tragedies unfortunately.

[@mohamedh.guelleh630]

​@@1398gono, it's specifically said in the video that the airline had this culture problem, but never took action to fix it until the crash happened. Innocent lives were lost and it's the airline's fault to have ignored the problem for so long.

[@IStMl]

@@mohamedh.guelleh630 the problem stems from Korean culture and the airline's failure to install an aeronautical culture stronger than the Korean one within its ranks. Not that it's an easy feat.

[@IncorrigibleBigotry]

@@IStMl Well said.

[@canardeur8390]

Yes: the korean "culture"! If we can call it like that...

[@Itory1337]

As soon as there is a power imbalance in the cockpit, safety dies. Hierarchies are one thing, but a clear perception of tasks and mutual respect are what I understand by professionalism, whether on an airplane or anywhere else.

[@None-zc5vg]

See the 'Tenerife' crash in 1977 for an illustration

[@richardvernon317]

I was at home 3 miles away from the impact of this crash and saw and heard the windows rattle from the blast.

[@LarryWhite-kw5mj]

Glad i never saw samantha smiths crash in auburn,maine.i was on duty then

[@pooryorick831]

That must have been a terrible thing to witness. I can't imagine seeing or hearing such a thing. Dreadful...

[@richardvernon317]

@@pooryorick831 Didn't know what it was until I Drove to my Grandparents to drop off some Christmas presents around 45 minutes after the crash and saw a lot of fire engines and other emergency wagons going the other way. That's when I turned the radio and heard that the boom had been a 747 crash.

[@PM-mm3pz]

I was on the plane

[@prac2]

​@PM-mm3pz Lol beat me to that one by 7 days

[@tek87]

When you hear the plane landed safely and realize there's still 20 mins left in the video. 🥺

[@N1Z3L]

Yeah I just commented that I think its the first vid with 2 flights in one. Kinda strage after watching so many videos of him with just 1 flight per upload.

[@MikeDCWeld]

It's crazy to think that the captain believed that the plane wasn't turning as he was requesting it to, yet he didn't initiate any sort of non-normal checklist to diagnose the problem.

[@iiikkk8446]

I thoughe same, but 56 seconds are extremely short time

[@gracedillard1597]

@@iiikkk8446especially when that was from take off not from when he tried to start turning

[@krob2327]

Ok. Kim was compromised by the Russians during his time living in Moscow.

[@christianwiese9887]

@@iiikkk8446 yes but if you give left yoke for more than 10 secs and the artificial horizon does not budge, even your lowest insticts should cry out.

[@matthewhanf3033]

Forgot that, how do you not FEEL that turn?!

[@MenwithPurpose2012]

Hold up. The first crew had written in the tech log that if the captains ADI was switched to ATT, everything would be alright. He essentially told the maintenance crew exactly what to do in the tech log!

[@Andrew-dy1xi]

Yeah so why the fck did the engineer think it was a problem with the ADI

[@CrazyPanda688]

Ikr. Like common sense, where is it

[@greenockscatman]

Well the guy did find a supposedly corroded pin in there, so he must have taken that + successful test as proof positive that the problem had been fixed.

[@alphamineron]

@@Andrew-dy1xi sounds like an intelligence problem… what was written (if accurately shown in the video) and the problem he solved for are mutually exclusive. People are blaming the culture but it was this incompetent engineer who caused the crisis

[@alphamineron]

@@greenockscatman confirmation bias is not a justification

[@snorlax4021]

Love your video's, by far my favorite air disaster channel. No excessive use of stock images, clear explaination, focus on the accident, just perfect.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you, glad you're enjoying them 🙏

[@shibukurian79]

same for me! green dot. i commented my opinion on this accident. there was a few alternative ways which the captain could have understood whether his ADI was working or not. for example the number of Gs exerted on his body during the dive.

[@bikeny]

@@GreenDotAviation Content and all are good. My only dislike is the playing of 'background music' while you are narrating. You are not the only YT host doing this and I ask the others as well to not do it. Muting and enabling the c/c is not really good, because then I have to read the screen and the text, especially in these types of videos where you are showing us stuff, can block the images. Also, the auto-gen'd cc are not perfect. For example, in another aviation channel, the host said 'fore' but the c/c wrote 'four.' Sure, I could determine what was said in that case, but it is not always possible. So, pretty please with sugar on top, do not play any music while you are narrating. Thx.

[@kevinbarry71]

It seems to me, the mechanic should have been able to properly diagnose what was defective from what the flight engineer told him. He said the ADI worked fine once he switched the source. That would tell any reasonable person that the source is the problem.

[@Daniel-xy1vk]

Yea, its like assuming that your car's overheating is a result of a faulty sensor and not the cooling system itself. Very dumb actually.

[@indianfan1029]

They are mechanics, and not engineers, for a reason. This precise reason to be precise. 🤐

[@phuketexplorer]

Exactly! I was about to write the exact same thing.

[@mortgageapprovals8933]

@kevinbarry71, the mechanic's fault is not the biggest issue here. it was the shit head pilot.

[@kevinbarry71]

@@mortgageapprovals8933 no kidding.

[@ZeroSOFInfinity]

No crashes in 25 years since this crash is one really impressive record.

[@stephenholland5930]

Still wouldn't fly on Korean Air, just like Air France.

[@DGTelevsionNetwork]

​@@stephenholland5930air France is really the worst

[@TheRealNTSBlol]

I only fly Air Canada, Lufthansa, and Etihad. ONLY.

[@padorukurumi6572]

Korean Air 631 crashed 2 years ago in Mactan-Cebu Airport where it overshot its runway. The aircraft was totally written-off BUT, this was the next total write off after the 8509 crash, having Korean Air 23 years w/o very serious crashes like these two. Also there are no casualties and injuries in flight 631 too.

[@alanmiller9681]

I have flown many times on both Korean and Asiana. I was even on Asiana 214 a week prior to the SFO crash. Both Korean airlines have severe cultural issues as the comments and video have suggested. There is simply way too much respect for seniority and experience. While I haven’t flown on either airline since flight 214, I really enjoy flying on the 747-8 given the opportunity.

[@Phiyedough]

That maintenance engineer should not have needed to look up that code, the written note explained what was happening well enough.

[@stephenholland5930]

It would have been sensible to carry a copy of the FIM on board each aircraft.

[@ditzygypsy]

@@stephenholland5930Or maybe even make a quick phone call? Unbelievable.

[@kdbrown777]

@@stephenholland5930 My first thought exactly, why isn't an FIM onboard each plane?

[@solomonarhin]

I’m pretty sure there are such documents online that he could’ve checked

[@kdbrown777]

@@solomonarhin In 1999? The internet wasn't that advanced back then.

[@flyerbob124]

I worked for a Asiana ground handling company for 9 long months. The culture there was amazing to watch. Aircraft captains were gods and nobody questioned them. Even the American born Koreans working there were scared to death of the Korean born management who ran the terminal. More…..as a licensed aircraft mechanic, I believe the Korean Air maintenance guy didn’t do his job as the flight engineers write up practically gave him the problem and the fix if he had troubleshot the problem correctly. Even the captain knew what the problem was and what the fix was. To have to go to a code book to figure out the problem was part of the problem!

[@alexroselle]

Was this before or after their flight 214 crash at SFO? Because I’ve heard company culture and possibly aspects of Korean culture which are contrary to CRM as understood in “Western” countries’ airlines were to blame for that, but as I’m not Korean I want to be careful not to overgeneralize about matters I barely know about.

[@flyerbob124]

@@alexroselle I worked for the ground handling company that handled Asiana before the SFO crash. It’s my understanding that the “you don’t question the Captain” culture was a big part of the problem in that crash.

[@rnies6849]

that is the explanation why the Japans lost the war against the USA. At least it contributed much. The boss is in relation to the sub like a God. He is always right cannot be doubted.

[@fiddleywest3778]

Your channel is hands down the best aviation channel, you take the viewer through the emotions and situation, it almost feels as though one is in the cockpit.

[@GreenDotAviation]

That's exactly what I'm going for, thanks!

[@Metaltherebel92]

Him and Mentour Pilot are the OGs of aviation channels.

[@hankulator961]

That has to be one of the most avoidable crash ever ! 😯

[@69left]

As a commercial pilot, I can't begin to describe the mix of enjoyment and terror your videos evoke! They're incredibly insightful yet concise. Every time a new video appears in my feed, it sparks a surge of excitement. Thank you for your outstanding content! Please guys subscribe to give this guy what he deserves!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Much appreciated!

[@rnies6849]

I feel a little at unease when a commercial pilot says this, so I ask the question why a commercial pilot has not at least the same quality devices, educational guidance by his airline?

[@69left]

@@rnies6849 I'm not sure to understand your question. Who said I don't have?

[@rnies6849]

@@69left hopefully You have. The praise like "incredibly insightful " etc. evoked the doubts.

[@dan.vitale]

This crash happened a couple of miles where I live. Back when this happened, I was actually on my way home from work in London. My friend, who lives 13 miles away from the crash site said that the impact shook his house. To this day, if you were to go for a walk in Hatfield Forest, where the 747 came down, you'll still find cargo debris strewn in a large area. Most of it is in the form of HP printer cartridge remnants.

[@josephconnor2310]

Oh, man

[@krob2327]

Don’t touch any of it. It’s cancerous. The uk gov cover this up but the plane was made from carcinogenic material. The uk gov also use stansted as the airport for diplomatic missions as they view the lives of you and those in Essex as less than Londoners. Ie if a terrorist takes down the us presidents plane it’s better over Essex than London. I’ve worked in government. This attitude is everywhere and they frankly hate you

[@krob2327]

The plane was made of carcinogens. The gov know this but refuse to move the wreckage. They truly hate the people who,live around that area. I have first hand evidence of this when I worked in parliament

[@18Ram]

so do you have a lot of ink at home still?

[@1398go]

One of the reasons why it is such a joy to watch your videos is somewhat of an odd but reasonable explanation. You explain what might be the most devastating and even beyond shocking accidents in such a calm and logical manner, even the music and lighting of your videos are calming. Many people have a really hard time watching the 9/11 videos, even the mention of it causes shock-- I think how you approach accidents psychologically has done so much good. Thank you so much for your videos and for preserving our wellbeing,--truly. It’s almost as if at the end of each video you give everyone involved including the viewers of your videos peace from such tragedy. That is absolutely an art form of presentation and preparation to a much greater level than just “posting” a video.

[@FreedomIII]

GreenDot and MentourPilot are my go-tos for accident reports specifically because of those qualities. I don't want dramatisations, I want interesting explanations and lessons I can take into aspects of my own life, not the over-dramatised, horror-for-horror's-sake videos that so many channels put out ❤

[@ShutTheMuckUp]

That's why I always speak up when I see somethings wrong, regardless of who gets mad or not. My life is more important than your ego.

[@pharmphresh]

Literally, pride goes before the fall. A little humility and everyone would have fine and safe.

[@krob2327]

It’s much darker than this. The pilot was blackmailed by the Russians to do this.

[@boas_]

A truly horrible captain

[@noneofyourbizness]

A truly horrible c̶a̶p̶t̶a̶i̶n̶ person.

[@tazman8697]

A truly horrible DEAD captain

[@martinqizeaq]

Culture problem where the old is to be respected on demand and the young need to comply no matter what. Korea and Japan have this problem.

[@reyphobic]

@@martinqizeaqmajority of asia does.

[@noneofthem8686]

This captain have the same attitude as my dad

[@enderbeam8089]

It's a good day when GreenDot uploads 🎉

[@Chizzling]

You can say that again💯🔥

[@Coleizil05]

Frrrr

[@Drakeblood97]

Not for the people he's uploading a video about

[@NoSaysJo]

​@@Drakeblood97🫵🤡

[@sitinurbaedah9598]

@@Chizzling yea

[@jeanadames8230]

I’ve worked with Koreans before (LNG tank construction) and believe me.. this behavior was pretty common between Koreans to have this selfish “ shut up I’m going to do this on my own” and is so bad that they usually broke into fights verbally and physically with each other. Of course, not all Korean are like this. But as far as a fellow Korean told me this is basically a culture thing among them.

[@shanksinha81]

I have seen Koreans working in the gulf where I work. They were providing engineering consulting in infrastructure projects and belonged to companies like Hyundai and Daewoo. They were very egoistic, foul-mouthed and brow beating with each other. With other nationalities, they were invariably racist. Horrible work culture, a mixture of the worse of Asian hierarchical system and cheap American "my way or highway" attitude.

[@stereomachine]

I'm Korean and don't believe you. Your experience with a limited group of people shouldn't become a broad stereotype. One guy there telling you it's common isn't enough evidence

[@huatseng6037]

We work with koreans as well, and yeah they do have that superiority complex within them and those who they see as “lower” than them (personally or culturally; also age, sex, nationality etc). It must be common

[@stereomachine]

@@huatseng6037Again, you're stereotyping. Are you Chinese? If I tried to generalize all of China based on a small sample of Chinese people I met I'd be ignorant. Don't be ignorant

[@krob2327]

@@huatseng6037yuna Kim used to treat non Koreans appallingly.

[@mattquinlob7810]

Bro's video quality has increased 10 fold compared to his previous vids. I LOVE ITTTT

[@GreenDotAviation]

That's what we're going for! Glad you're liking it :))

[@normtrooper4392]

This is a very accessible aviation channel. The focus on psychology sets it apart from other channels.

[@atlanta2076]

A sad story. But BIG kudos to the Koreans for owning up to their mistake and changing the culture within their airline. We should not take that for granted. Once they knew what was broke they fixed it. If only BOEING would think the same way :(

[@jw2442]

Boeing's way of owning their failures is by jettisoning whistle blowers from this realm to the next.

[@Anonnymouss-nu6uv]

@@jw2442 what are you talking about? The whistleblowers died of suicide/natural causes. Why would you assume that they would pay assassins six figure payments under the table to go kill people who would threaten their corporate empire?

[@krob2327]

They are lucky they didn’t kill hundreds on the ground.

[@Lainfan]

Maybe the most impressive part about the aftermath of this tragic crash is that it made KA start implementing and following the international aviation standards much more closely. As a result they are now among the safest airlines to fly with in the world.

[@Mikoyan_123]

This channel rivals air crash investigations, and it’s AWESOME

[@secoat]

i started watching about 5ish weeks ago and i just about have finished every video.. you’re videos are awesome and i appreciate the effort. I can imagine editing and gathering all the info for these vids can be pretty time consuming. anyways.. looks like i just got home with dinner at the perfect time.

[@RobertCraft-re5sf]

There's a super cool teardown and demonstration of a 737 internal navigation gyro on here. Definitely check that out. it spins at like 37,000 RPMs and it takes like 20 minutes to stop spinning. Amazing precision engineering.

[@smcdonald9991]

Still amazed that the ground engineer could not check the fault code elsewhere, e.g. phoning his maintenance base in Korea or locally in Stanstead. Also why wasn't there the usual aural warning "Bank Angle"?

[@mscolli3]

Maybe that is controlled by the faulty computer that was telling the captain wings were level?

[@smcdonald9991]

@@mscolli3 Probably but that means there is no redundancy on this alarm. I read the AAIB report and there is no mention of this.

[@aaronmdjones]

There was no bank angle warning system on this aircraft at this time. It wouldn't surprise me if this accident is what resulted in the creation of that warning system.

[@alex_zetsu]

He in fact could have phoned his maintenance base in Korea despite missing his copy of the book and they would have told him how to fix it. He just didn't do it. As for the company that supplied the other engineers in Stanstead that he had help replace the ADI, they would have told him how to fix it if they gave him the logbook, but he was used to being in Moscow where the local engineering company couldn't diagnose anything and were kind of useless so he'd just tell the engineers what to do and they'd do it.

[@tanyavandermerwe8330]

Between you and Mentour Pilot i can't decide who's my favourite. I LOVE both of your content. Can't wait for the next one!

[@adityabadukale6353]

They both are great green dot provides incredible story writing paired with technical info, mentour tells a little more about the story generally, both are incredible in their regards

[@tanyavandermerwe8330]

@@adityabadukale6353 agreed! I drop everything when these 2 uploads lol

[@crankychris2]

74 is good too.

[@sharoncassell5273]

I recently discovered Chloe Howie who is also descriptive and thorough on accident investigation. Excellent research and presentation.

[@4wheelsride]

I enjoy green dot aviation more as it binge us with the animation, i wish Mentour Pilot add more animation in their episode it helps to understand better!

[@CharlesPepper]

Best aviation channel by far. God bless.

[@rnies6849]

you same Kitchener

[@meldahspeight8525]

He is a very good narrator everything is explained he is very articulate so good to listen to.

[@StephanieElizabethMann]

This tragedy is a stark warning to all types of work places where there is a known chain of command. All too often the power imbalance leads to one or more of the team deciding to no longer contribute even vital information to the person in charge.

[@finlayc]

This is an excellent presentation of the issue with the ADI and the INU. One of the best tech explanations I've ever seen!

[@CrossKnight]

You know it's going to be a great day when Green Dot Aviation uploads a new video! Missed Ya!

[@Canleaf08]

When competent people become extremely stubborn and not open for input or feedback, we have this outcome.

[@tomtalker2000]

This was SO CLEARLY avoidable...!!! But you had a power hungry captain who was simply NOT in sink with his other officers. Terrible communication issues.

[@jasmine0354]

Sync

[@MrLegendra]

Your graphic design team deserves a raise. The animation is so detailed

[@malborboss]

This is Microsoft flight simulator

[@mattstanley2306]

So sad with the hierarchy culture back then that the first officer would rather lose his life than to speak up or take control

[@peachworks_en]

been watching the channel for a while now, i'm absolutely impressed to be able to witness the gradual improvement in production quality over the past year...keep it up!

[@uncaringbear]

There's so many catastrophic incidents that resulted from poor CRM. I'd be really interested in learning about cases where a crew member took the correct initiative to take control from the pilot flying to prevent a disaster.

[@samirsilwal8341]

The highlight of this channel is how it simplifies complex aviation components for easy comprehension. Gold standard contents.

[@plan-B-]

There is no room for ignorance inside a cockpit, especially inside a time frame of 56 seconds....

[@sitinurbaedah9598]

His videos always get better these days,Keep up the good work!

[@GreenDotAviation]

That's the plan, cheers!

[@Confessor555]

I suppose when everybody comes from a military culture, a junior pilot would be hesitant to say, "Hey, wtf are you doing".

[@DizzyBizzy88]

My cousin is a pilot for United after a USAF career. We don't have much contact but I think he would love this channel. I've seen about 6 or so other channels of this type, and gotta say - Green Dot slays them all. A lot of facts and information. Most binge-able YT channel I've seen. Bravo!

[@Moon_x_sun]

Agree, green dot and mentour pilot are very good channels that are very like fact based in their videos :) I do Think green dot can be abit easier to follow sometimes just fyi there is alot of technical speak in mentour pilots videos (but he is also a pilot who trains people to become pilots so it makes sense)

[@DizzyBizzy88]

@@Moon_x_sun yeah I watch that one too, it's #2 in my book, but it does not flow nearly as well as Green Dot IMO.

[@DizzyBizzy88]

Will say that I am not a fan of those with too many actor recreations of events. Much more interested in the facts/details than any 'dramatizations' per se.

[@kikastra]

How could the clue that the ADI worked fine when in the alternate mode, not be a clue to the technician that the ADI wasn't faulty?

[@walkingman9171]

Just like auto mechanics, many of them are not very sharp.

[@TabletopWorms]

I literally screamed when I saw a new video from you. So excited to watch!

[@leeaf7]

Former Korean Air driver here. Following the suit of many accidents involving FO feeling too much of power distance between him/herself with the CA, their flight ops manual specifically states that the pilot monitoring (in reality they meant FO not flying) can forcibly take over the flight controls from the CA after pointing out an unstable factor twice. It is an incredibly rare and almost unthinkable clause you could imagine finding it in the crew manual allowing a pilot to actively fight over the controls in-flight (considering manuals from well-trained CRM countries like the United States) but their history of crashing perfectly operational jets over CRM/Communication breakdown caused them to come up with such first-aid bandage over their historical, systemic problem. Korean's FOs had this old joke telling other FO colleagues that when the CA tries to pull "I got it" crap over an unstabilized approach, we would sneak upon to their throttle quadrant and force the TOGA power on them. It was all shits and gigles on the surface back then but thinking about it with a historical perspective, it still sends a chill down the spine realizing the clash between the western CRM concept and historical Asian hierarchy is still on-going to this date.

[@mb2776]

after watching many incidents, I alway wondered why nobody thaught about just pushing that toga button when their captain does an unstable approach^^

[@Americarunsonduncan]

Videos keep getting better ☺️. You keep the storyline interesting. I appreciate that you don’t dumb it down too much, but also make it easy to follow. Perfect videos when I’m at the gym on the stair stepper.

[@Bxu021]

I was thinking, “wow the push back tugs must be very powerful!” Before he said the push back tugs could push no further because it lacked the power to 😂

[@Komsmkas]

I love aviation, coming to know your page has just made me a big fan, am enjoying myself ,your voice is always on point

[@kaitai5900]

100% culture, because they were Koreans. Still exists today. Case in point is the Asiana crew that flew a perfect 777 into a sea wall at KSFO several years ago. Perfect clear blue no wind day. Relief pilot (former ROKAF F16 pilot knew exactly what was happening, but said nothing until he feared for his life. Culture.

[@nathanpeterson1783]

Amazing story telling. I really got chills several times. You've earned my subscription sir!

[@raya74]

Just finished work, need a nap but definitely saved to my watch later list

[@captsamirj.glenn-roundtree2320]

I know this flight was cargo, but these videos remind me just how much trust we put into the men and women in the cockpit. Wishing everyone who flies safe travels, and traveling mercies.

[@caroldawson5384]

Absolutely love these informative videos that are extremely well done. 👍

[@seasoda3319]

Man, im absolutely loving your channel! You really get my heart pumping 😮. I look forward to the stories with survivors!

[@280SE]

Omg I can’t sleep then Mr Green Dot uploads! What a touch 😂

[@ROKE_89]

What a lovely captain and what a beautifull working envoirment he created :)

[@apexpredatortvt]

When there was no music during the intro, I was already writing a comment like "WHERE IS YOUR TYPICAL INTRO MUSIC BRING IT BACK !!!1!!!11", until, thankfully, it started playing just after the intro 😌

[@keithposter5543]

A first class production as ever. This one never fails to shock

[@Elvan-x1x]

Well done , there is a lot of work behind the scenes , graphic and post editing ecc I laughed when you say captain gave out to FO for not responding ATC, that’s very Irish way to say it ahah not everyone would understand it

[@Elvan-x1x]

@user-kz4ke8mg4r yeah ahah giving out is something a supervisor does when something is not right or for example the wife complaining the husband didn’t do all the stuff he was told to do at home . English is not my first language, I lived 4 years in Dublin then moved to Australia , Aussies couldn’t understand me when I used this term the first time, I thought was just normal English then I discovered was only a Irish slang ahah

[@countesscable]

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I was raised by Irish Gran and this is EXACTLY how she would speak. It’s natural to me, but I’ve only just realised what it must sound like to other people.

[@syte_y]

I can’t stop watching these videos

[@hcdenton]

I wonder if there's more to this story than meets the eye? It's one thing for the captain to act to a, shall we say, less than up to date CRM procedure, but how can you not notice that the ADI is not working once you've given some aileron inputs for more than a few seconds? Also, banking that steep should be felt clearly in the cockpit, and should feel pretty different to turbulence, so I really wonder. I wonder, was the captain preoccupied somehow already on the ground? Maybe the reason he behaved towards his crew the way he did was ultimately the same had him fail to correctly judge the situation once airborne?

[@ChrisOchieng]

Wow, I like how you covered this incident, taking into account what happened before the flight, including the previous flight and the cause of the incorrect ADI reading. Most channels only cover the Flight 8509

[@curtisj2165]

The incoming captain should have just left the switch in the ALT position for the next captain

[@EnvyTheRealest]

The next captain should of paid attention to his backup instruments. Hes was turning all the way left and his main instrument was not reacting to his inputs. Instead of getting a hold of himself to get back to his senses, he continued to turn left.

[@mb2776]

in the music industry, we also "reset" our mixing desk, but at least we put writeable tape onto stuff that doesn't work.

[@JohnK2004]

Always excited when Green Dot uploads I get so immersed in the stories

[@philiphumphrey1548]

I'm surprised that the Korean engineer didn't see the logic that if the ADI works on feed 2, but not on feed 1, it's probably not the ADI that is at fault. You don't need a reference manual or codes to figure that out. I'm nothing to do with the aircraft industry but if I were fixing something, I always used to draw out a logic diagram by which I could work out which faults were most likely to produce the symptoms before I started. It could save a lot of wasted effort.

[@bluedistortions]

Doing things a long time doesn't mean you're good at them. Goes for pilots, engineers, teachers, welders, police, and every other professional you can imagine. So it's a real shame length of time doing something is generally all companies look at for promotions.

[@floschy_1]

"This crew was not a team" (17:10) This sentence hits hard

[@kevinearle8955]

I'm not an expert but won't an experience pilot have a basic understanding of the orientation of a plane without instruments especially when you just took off. How much ground clearance he thought he had? How wings could be level when turning? Geez this is so crazy! I'm speechless. Unnecessary deaths. Almost felt like suicide to me.

[@bishnu526]

Man I can’t express how much I liked the music that used to be there when it shows the green dot aviation logo at the start, now it’s gone. I have watched a lot of videos simply because of that music.

[@TomTKK]

What happened

[@toastercatx]

New Green Dot drop! 😁

[@JerseyAir]

You know it's a good day when Green Dot Aviation posts a new video

[@GodenBoy1234]

The only channel where I like before the video starts.

[@blues03]

1:17 That transition was crisp.

[@Lordoftheflamesissketchy]

Seriously well done as always. 👍

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you 😀

[@ghall05]

One thing that seems to be so common in these accidents is that the pilots seems to use as few words as possible to communicate. Why not say "CAPTAIN! YOU ARE BANKED 40 DEGREES TO THE LEFT!!!" instead of just "oy, bank". That makes absolutely no sense to me. Just freaking use WORDS and no one would have died. I am completely baffled.

[@bluedistortions]

I think we also need to ask why the captain was banked 80 degrees and still hadn't noticed he wasn't level. That means he was literally on his side, being held in his seat with his harness.. Passengers were dangling from the ceiling. Smart phones would have been falling like rain on those at the bottom. "Oy, bank," indeed. This captain wasn't just rude and stubborn, he was like a vegetable.

[@BenCarpendale]

@@bluedistortions It was a cargo flight before smart phones were what they are today, but the rest of what you say is true.

[@bluedistortions]

@@BenCarpendale sorry, PDAs in 1999. Jornada was a wonderful company, way better than apple, and I think they released their first smart phone that year. But anyways, technically true, thanks for the correction.

[@reminderIknows]

i can't stop hearing the f word 😭😭 12:57

[@neverseenbeforenow]

Fr

[@rms1034]

I worked for a Korean firm for a year, and I understand this so much. Korean work culture is beyond toxic, bosses have god complexes, and see any below them as little more than oxen to do their bidding. Bullying and berating is a daily occurrence. Although the ground engineer has a good share of blame, the captain and his terrible attitude towards his co pilots is the primary factor that lead to disaster.

[@StephenLuke]

RIP Park Duk-kyu (1942-1999) Yoon Ki-sik (1966-1999) Park Hoon-kyu (1961-1999) and Kim Il-suk (1954-1999)

[@CarolinaMama20]

I absolutely love these videos ❤ the telling of these stories is so comprehensive and well written. The animations are so good at supplementing the story and offering a visual for the story we are hearing. Such high quality stuff 👌

[@iiABoSaLe7]

"Oy, bank..." - The coldest reaction ever.

[@antman5474]

Very respectful analysis and conclusion of a tragic event.

[@richardjohnson455]

Baffling. If the Moscow-based mechanic Kim couldn’t get a FIM at Stansted why didn’t it ever occur to him to make a phone call or use a computer to access the FIM at a KAL office elsewhere? A KAL staffer at their home office or wherever he contacted could just read him the Code meaning from the FIM. Unbelievable.

[@krob2327]

Kim was compromised by the Russians

[@tonyk8043]

The standby attitude indicator does not get info from INS3 but is completely independent using gyros within the instrument.

[@BillSmith-rx9rm]

So despite all the many changes he said were implemented, this tragedy all comes down to one thing: A BAD CAPTAIN. With the redundancies built in, a faulty ADI should never had lead to a fatal accident.

[@harshrajbasant9440]

No one should ever face death that is as horrendous as a plane crash, but I can say that I am glad this captain never got to fly any other plane with any other new first officer.

[@gabrielvitalo]

Was there no "bank angle" warnig back then or it didn't work because it took data from the captain's ADI?

[@creolespanish34]

Very common in East Asian cultures the absolute submission to hierarchy, it's a very ancient tradition that they struggle to overcome when a participative behavior is needed, like on an aircraft cockpit. It seems to me that the Captain was angry at all the delays, and anger took out the worst of him, once he yelled at the FO, not only any further contribution was blocked, he also stopped asking for them. That Captain caused a perfectly flyable aircraft to crash with his attitude

[@krob2327]

That may be true. Kim was compromised by Russia. This wasn’t pilot error. This was murder.

[@Xamry]

SO EXCITED to see a new episode!

[@samuelconnolly347]

Haven't watched the video yet, but I know it's going to be another corker. Wondering if you'd consider doing a video on Air New Zealand flight 901 (the Mount Erebus disaster)? I think that could be a really interesting one.

[@rayjandomingo-xu7rq]

This made me understand better about piloting a plane than the actual story. Thx for information 😂

[@Wargasm54]

Amazing that the first officer or the flight engineer didn’t do more to let the captain know he was screwing up bad?! Yeah, I understand the cultural thing. I’ve been to Korea and many other Asian countries. But when your life is in jeopardy, you make your position clear to whomever is responsible for it. All they had to do was inform the captain to look at the OTHER TWO working instruments?! Ridiculous and sad .

[@jasmine0354]

The first officer was psychologically traumatized by being brow-beaten repeatedly by the arrogant Captain. He was literally psychologically immobilized

[@Wargasm54]

@@jasmine0354 then he shouldn’t be flying a plane.

[@nekowafer4017]

@@Wargasm54 And he literally wasn't.

[@Mojit00]

First officer fault

[@Anonnymouss-nu6uv]

@@jasmine0354 True. Everyone here who’s victim blaming the FO has never been in a position where they are constantly belittled and bullied by someone that they are supposed to look up to and work with. May that captain rot in hell forever.

[@KaRe-m2t]

I'm newly introduced to your channel, I binged watched almost all videos The quality of your videos is outstanding. Keep going!