Greg Lukianoff: Cancel Culture, Deplatforming, Censorship & Free Speech | Lex Fridman Podcast

Greg Lukianoff is a free speech advocate, first-amendment attorney, president of FIRE - Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, and co-author of The Coddling of the American Mind and a new book The Canceling of the American Mind. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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TRANSCRIPT:
lexfridman.com/greg-lukianoff...
EPISODE LINKS:
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** Books Mentioned **
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OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
2:11 - Cancel culture & freedom of speech
16:42 - Left-wing vs right-wing cancel culture
25:27 - Religion
28:07 - College rankings by freedom of speech
34:15 - Deplatforming
48:50 - Whataboutism
53:53 - Steelmanning
1:01:29 - How the left argues
1:12:09 - Diversity, equity, and inclusion
1:24:00 - Why colleges lean left
1:31:38 - How the right argues
1:36:13 - Hate speech
1:45:00 - Platforming
1:54:31 - Social media
2:15:38 - Depression
2:27:09 - Hope
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[@lexfridman]

Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. Transcript: lexfridman.com/greg-lukianoff-transcript 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Policygenius: www.policygenius.com/ - Babbel: babbel.com/lexpod and use code Lexpod to get 55% off - BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off - InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off - ExpressVPN: expressvpn.com/lexpod to get 3 months free 2:11 - Cancel culture & freedom of speech 16:42 - Left-wing vs right-wing cancel culture 25:27 - Religion 28:07 - College rankings by freedom of speech 34:15 - Deplatforming 48:50 - Whataboutism 53:53 - Steelmanning 1:01:29 - How the left argues 1:12:09 - Diversity, equity, and inclusion 1:24:00 - Why colleges lean left 1:31:38 - How the right argues 1:36:13 - Hate speech 1:45:00 - Platforming 1:54:31 - Social media 2:15:38 - Depression 2:27:09 - Hope

[@user-li7ec3fg6h]

Thank you very much for all your wonderfull work, beautiful being Lex! Very, very much!

[@icelandlady771]

Thank you 🎉

[@roninmarketing4048]

You are amazing

[@nathalieforest8497]

Don't despair Lex Friedman. Lately your mood has been affected. Focus please on all that you bring in this world. You cannot have total approuval from your viewers and hate will never be defeated. Trail your way, continue to love, never change unless it is preventing you to grow.

[@colinconroy2816]

Nope

[@spencerwenzel7381]

Harvard arguing they allow free speech by trying to cancel this guy. The irony is killing me.

[@DreamseedVR]

This comment needs more likes 👍

[@rdalge]

It’s complicated

[@pootsie01]

Irony is an undiscovered law of nature

[@BetaTestingUrGf]

Universities are discrediting themself, and a degree is worth less and less in many different lines of work.

[@antoniopalmero4063]

Of course you can say whatever you want , as long as I’m not offended by it .

[@TriglycerideBeware]

I don't say this lightly: I think this is my favorite episode of the podcast so far. He said so many things I've always felt but have had trouble expressing in words

[@arnoldcantu9583]

Me too. Lukianoff is such a great interviewee. I preordered his book as a result!

[@Eltalstro]

I'm surprised it hasn't had more views.

[@grantfrith9589]

Possibly a good argument for "The red scare" being justified...

[@ClintOlsen]

This was a fantastic discussion! Lukianoff and FIRE have taken on the mantle of free speech! ❤

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: Social Media Censorship On Covid,on NATO Expansion On Questioning Govt narrative Not akin to Orwell World?

[@Gobbldeegoo1]

It was meh. He thinks cancel culture started in 2014. Which is comical… considering an entire sex (women, and half the population) whose voice was cancelled for being… women. Then there were minorities whose voice was also cancelled for having… more melanin. Then there were the indigenous who were cancelled for living… just living. MLK and Fred Hampton, cancelled for speaking out about working people deserving more. JFK, cancelled for openly challenging the military industries, just speaking his mind. An unfathomable number of workers have been outright murdered by their employers and the government for crime of… wanting enough to survive, and saying so. The upper class/aristocracy of the United States has ALWAYS been engaged in cancel culture… it just wasn’t a problem till it started happening to them, apparently in 2014, which is why it was suddenly a forefront issue in all of their media outlets. Wasn’t a problem till multimillionaires and billionaires and Christian Nationalists started getting cancelled for saying the N-word, blaming Jooz for everything, killing/hurting people, and calling the cops for no good reason. Then suddenly “cancel culture” enters the American consciousness, and everyone including this guest thinks it was just some kind of organic event that entered the dialectic. “Cancel culture” is a perfect example of the aristocracy using social conditioning through their media sphere, to make their opinions that are treasonous as they conspire against the American people at large and simultaneously incite racism sexism and hate, acceptable. All of this is done because it entrenches their power, and makes us fear each other, taking our attention away from what the upper class are doing to our people and the world.

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

freedom of speech: the ability to speak one’s mind without fear of RETRIBUTION. Normally, freedom of speech is dependent on the prevailing governmental rules, at least at the public level. In private, freedom to speak one’s mind is entirely contingent on the rules of the particular house or institution in question. Freedom of speech does not negate the CONSEQUENCES of one’s speech. To give example, if a child berates his father, obviously, he ought to be punished for that sinful deed. In order to propose another example, a genuine king will permit his subjects to criticize his actions in a constructive manner, as long as they refrain from deliberate insults, which is a criminal offence (see Chapter 12). A large proportion of humanity seems to agree that one should refrain from speaking words that incite violent acts, and that one ought not yell the word “Fire!!” in a crowded room or auditorium purely as a practical joke. Those who believe that free speech should be totally unconditional will not be able to sustain that opinion if his or her children spout insubordinate speech, as in the first example.

[@ClintOlsen]

The concept of freedom of speech applies to restricting the government from either directly or indirectly impinging their ability to express themselves.

[@7JeTeL7]

if you mute some opinions, those opinions do not dissapear; you only get false picture of society, plus those "muted" individuals isolate themselfs in like-minded bubbles, where true division is born...this hooked me up and man, what a discussion! thank you both.

[@peteygonemadarts4765]

So true . Not going to get into details but my future brother inlaw and I disagreed on something I hold very personal and close to my heart but I actually could respect his viewpoint even though I completely disagrees with it . Not going to to get into viewpoint but being able to embrace freedom of thought, speech and viewpoint I disagree with really helped . So few understand or can embrace the concept . I'm not going to say or describe our differences but I can say it would completely blow the mind of most millennials ... but from. Who's perspective? 🤔🤣🤔

[@brnz8238]

well said

[@EV3NTH888]

​@@peteygonemadarts4765so, do you agree with openly mocking ridiculous ideas? that's what I do. I had a Trump supporter that thinks a male student raped by a female teacher is not a problem. I mocked him and he whined about it.

[@peteygonemadarts4765]

@EV3NTH888 People have all kinds of stupid opinions , even I say dumb shit sometimes... if you can't think or speak freely you can't know how stupid or important a thought could be .

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

Kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Miss.☝️ Incidentally, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@petefromdewoods5157]

Freedom is not just YOURS, but everyone's.

[@recitalspringfmc]

Sounds like cancel culture is the equivalent of High School bullying...great interview. Thank you once again...

[@eddiemun17]

Yeh banning books and trying to cancel votes in an election then attacking the government. The real cancel culture

[@quertianmotto]

You are blaming the person standing up to the bully

[@ekothesilent9456]

@@quertianmottoyou sound like a teacher that punishes that shy kid for finally punching his long time bully. You’ve got it alllll backwards friend.

[@rdalge]

We’re all victims now

[@learntoswim9050]

It sounds more like it has morphed into indoctrination, these people are teaching the youth, and in turn those youth then are those that teach the youth and dictate who they hire based on things like DEI. Poison. These people are teaching not only universities, but teaching from Kindergarten through high school. Truly scary, and i'm in Canada, we've got some troubling times with freedom of speech and censorship, and what they teach our children.

[@rockapedra1130]

This is hands down the best interview channel on the Internet. Lex's curious yet unbiased and above all humane approach is what this frigging circus needs.

[@nikhilsahay895]

He is basically intelligent !

[@6teezkid]

For sure. Besides Lex being so intelligent and being an excellent interviewer with excellent guests, I either learn something I didn’t know about or the story of a person’s life and career that’s fascinating or I learn of a subject I’d never heard of, etc. I learn on other podcasts and interviews but Lex is top of the heap, by far. He sure loves talking about interstellar travel and aliens.

[@OscarMaris]

Okay, Lex

[@abe1996]

"Unbiased" 😄 🤣 😂 😆 😄 🤣

[@trin80]

Agreed, I love how relentlessly optimistic he remains despite some of the awful facts that some of his guests brings to light

[@cbashe]

I really like this guy. Great podcast Mr Fridman.

[@Taylor-bee]

GOD, someone please broadcast that intro snippet on every channel and every platform for a day. I love this guy, excited to listen! Know the world as it is 🤘

[@MC-br1gk]

God is not real, or do you have the proof?

[@sebastiansirvas1530]

@@MC-br1gk Are you a bot or just don't understands that it is just an expression to indicate intense emotion? Also, do you have proof of god not being real? Because that is different from mere lack of belief in god. It is affirming it does not exist.

[@MC-br1gk]

@@sebastiansirvas1530 No, just trolling your use of the term God.

[@kanosig]

​@@MC-br1gkso you're 12?

[@MC-br1gk]

@@kanosig I do sometimes act like a child. I am very imperfect.

[@idatong976]

This is a rich material that we all need to pay attention to. With curiosity and have an open-mind, we can accept and embrace the differences about others' points of view, cultural and educational backgrounds, and so on. We can disagree respectfully without cancelling anybody. Knowing that words can praise or hurt others, to be mindful can go a long way. Thank you both for this insightful episode! And thank you so much Lex.

[@dillyduncs]

You can disagree respectfully when you stand to lose nothing. When it's your rights and your choices and your life that are up for grabs, we'll see how that opinion holds.

[@peterlouis712]

The book he co-authored with Jonathan Haidt titled Coddling of the American Mind is a masterpiece. I look forward to this next book.

[@arnoldcantu9583]

Same!

[@Lobstoic]

I love that Lex is expanding to cover more polical commentators. Very important in our current cultural climate!

[@ballbustinbandit3558]

@@Tormentality Usually yea, but we're scarily witnessing something the USA has never come face to face with before.... Marxism... not only that but it's being pushed by the President of The United States. There's a decent chance we're fucked already.

[@Lobstoic]

Sure but sometimes those points of views don't feel as accessible to people. But when you have a masterful interviewer like Lex, one could listen to any point of view here. And Lex is so good at getting his guests to try to steelman the opposing viewpoint to their own.

[@djackson4605]

@@Tormentality If they want a balanced view, but a lot of people don't... They just want to feel good, which means being correct right now by not looking anything up. Echo chambers are so much easier than seeing things we disagree with. Add to that the number of just plain stupid people, and many will never look up substantive information, just surface level amusements. They still don't want to look dumb to others, or feel bad about themselves though, so they'll argue illogically and vehemently just to save face. It makes social media rife for more interactions where people are not remotely open-minded, and instead are just seeking drama or to stave off boredom.

[@KillaKiRawBeats]

I Love Lex Guests! Best minds of the world. Good stuff!

[@sidd4419]

Man, that intro (group polarisation) was fantastic!

[@aimhigh3701]

Its very real. A few years ago a long time friend severed ties with me after we had a long conversation about our differences in opinion. Basically he went super woke. By ending the friendship all it did was drive me further to the right. Id never even considered myself right wing before, but right leaning people are seemingly the only people you can talk to without offending them to the point of no return.

[@sebastiansirvas1530]

​@aimhigh3701 I am right wing, but that had nothing to do with the friendships I gave an ultimatum to. I did that when a supreme decree was issued in my country to prevent the non-inoculated with a covid vaccine from entering ALL PUBLIC ENCLOSED SPACES. I could not go into a bank or the university or a mall, legally, for a year. And that is without pointing out the humilliating staye campaign in which they demanded the inoculated to "disappear." I merely said that if they supported this measure, I could not honestly call myself their friend.

[@aga5109]

I'm cycling in a forest & listening to this podcast. Sun is shining. Two good things l can combine. It's such a pleasure.

[@yomajo]

"Look mom, I'm cycling without hands!" "Look mom, I'm cycling without legs!" "Look mom, I'm cycling without teeth!"

[@aga5109]

​@@yomajo😂

[@aga5109]

​@@TormentalityThank you!

[@Qwerty-mc5zi]

I'm laying on a dock at the cottage and listening to this whole looking at the fall colours. Love combining nature and podcasts!

[@jackiekjono]

A friend of mine teaches history and political science and has given at least one lecture on the Stazi every year for about 40 years now. For many years, he could always count on kids being absolutely shocked about the level of surveillance people were under. Somewhere around 2005 or so, he started getting well-reasoned arguments from students for the other side. A few years later, he stopped getting those and would get little sing-song replies of, "they watch us to keep us safe" from students who had never imagined that they could live safely without being watched constantly by someone. He couldn't quite figure out what happened. My job required me to visit schools. A few weeks after he told me about that, I happened to overhear a principal talking to a 7 or 8 year old boy because she had seen him on the video cameras hanging out in a part of the school where he should not have been and she asked him what he was doing there. He didn't say a word. I am pretty sure he was just too scared to speak. As she finished lecturing him on not straying from where he is supposed to be, she asked him, Why do we watch you?" He wouldn't answer. After a long silence, she answered for him. "We watch you to keep you safe." I very nearly fell out of my chair. Now, I wouldn't want to rag on that particular principal who is in many other ways a really good principal but, I think somewhere along the line, someone wrote a piece of curriculum about how to talk to kids about security cameras and no one else felt the need to reinvent the wheel so they all use the same bad curriculum which is this "we watch you to keep you safe" nonsense and children are getting that message when they are 5 and never hearing anything else until they get to my friend's class and hear about the Stazi.

[@davidbellecy1709]

This was a great conversation. Thank you Lex and Greg.

[@user-wl1hv3uh6i]

Honestly could have listened to this man for another 3hrs

[@onionknight2239]

That was a great talk. Thanks Greg. Thanks Lex

[@timothymbrinker]

You can feel the honesty in this conversation. Thank you.

[@anynimus1617]

Simply brilliant interview! Thank you!

[@euphegenia]

Nice. I just finished his and Jonathan Haidt’s book “The Coddling of the American Mind”. Looking forward to this.

[@WanderingSybil186]

Lex is so being called to start something new... Follow joy, dude. I am right here for the full-length documentary about the thing you love the most in the world that brings you joy. Go make it!

[@ethreix800]

When describing the rhetorical "fortress" (isn't really a fortress because it's easily destroyed), this is something that the scientific method teaches you to avoid to keep your reasoning effective. Meaning, if people were taught scientific method, they wouldn't fall into these congitive pitfalls so easily. And apparently, Harvard doesn't teach it.

[@ryanthenormal]

I've tried to introduce this idea in a spirited discussion once. I got an interesting response: "That's the problem with science."

[@Scilo14]

Agreed. People reason by analogy without nuance often. If people reason from first principles and/ or with comparative analysis the world would be so much better. Everything is done with getting to an answer the simple way possible and it’s sad.

[@lidiarona4335]

Scientific method works to a certain extent. Until it falls into scientism. And let's not forget that humans are ...humans not machines and I will point back to "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Kahneman. As much as we want to believe that we are logical, our logical reasoning is still governed by emotions. Further to that point, "The Master and his Emissary" - Ian McGilchrist...left brain and right brain.

[@ethreix800]

@@lidiarona4335 > Scientific method works to a certain extent. It's the best tool known to humanity for producing useful theories. And it will continue to be the best, because it evoles and encapsulates new techniques as they're found. So I'm not sure what you mean by "to a certain extent". There's nothing better for that phrase to have any meaning. > Until it falls into scientism. It covers cognitive bias, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. > And let's not forget that humans are ...humans [...] As much as we want to believe that we are logical, our logical reasoning is still governed by emotions Scientific method isn't about believing anything, it's just a tool to give you the best possible result. A tool that helps overcome limitations and quirks of our brains. It's so foundational for everyday life and work that it should be taught in schools as part of mandatory education, it would instantly propel humanity onto a next level of intelligent life.

[@gravoc857]

It’s only easily destroyed by logical and sensible people. The point of the fortress is to keep your sides extremists in and the other sides extremists out.

[@hello-mynameis]

another beautiful conversation, thank you ❤

[@timothywalsh6410]

Thank you Greg and thank you Lex. Loved to hear your conversation.

[@PeaceLogic]

Excellent and important conversation on free speech. Thank you Lex for all your amazing work to make the world a better place.

[@danieltochinskiy391]

Great, and a much needed conversation !! Thank you Lex and Greg,

[@MeetTK]

This is probably the best pod cast episode i have ever seen on youtube, i mean I listen most days to close to 6 hours, how this guy articulates himself and discusses the ideas is hands down brilliant

[@kjerstenlynum1686]

the depth of insight they bring to every conversation.Thank you Greg for being a beacon of intelligence, wisdom, and fairness. You're making a significant and positive impact on the world (as are you Lex) , and your ability to communicate and connect with others is truly inspiring. Keep shining and spreading your wonderful perspective!

[@Valkyri3Z]

immensely valuable discussion !

[@KingofKingsWorshipCenter]

So glad that you chose this interview

[@vkevpe]

Lex: you’re the best. Love you man! Greg: you too! Great discussion!

[@Chezzy79]

This is just another case explaining why Schopenhauer's "The Art of Controversy" should be a required reading in every school.

[@user-kl9sr4ry6s]

Greg, you are a great person, you deserve to stay happy!

[@texasred1894]

In my junior year of high school in Nebraska, we had a world religions class. It taught about the abrahamic religions along with Buddhism and a little bit of Hindu religions. It was able to maintain an academic standpoint of learning about these subjects and it was honestly one of my favorite classes that i think everyone could benefit from taking.

[@MiqelDotCom]

In my public high school in Mississippi we had a chapter in world history on world religions, but our teacher just told us that Hinduism & Buddhism were "satanic" and basically skipped over it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@kakashigaiden111]

love that southern education

[@CodexPermutatio]

I must say this video got my thumbs up just by listening to the excellent and very logical defense of free speech present in the very first minute.

[@florianschischkoff1647]

I really admire how both of you drastically overestimate human sanity

[@joshbearden4956]

It depends on how you define sanity I suppose. However, optimism is one of the many things that makes this podcast great. 👍

[@florianschischkoff1647]

@@joshbearden4956 You're right and I really do admire Lex' optimism. It's just that I'm having a hard time sharing it.

[@DaliborCarapic]

Really interesting discussion and a great talk. Please have a part 2 and 3 with Greg.

[@MikeRichards570]

Amazing, inspirative conversation!

[@jimroth2493]

Very important subject nowaday. We should all think serously about. Big Thanks both of you, it was an excellebt discussion!

[@DepthStrider222]

1984 wasn’t just a novel, it was a warning.

[@log0n]

Lex, I am so glad you are covering this topic.Timur Kuran's wrote an incredibly insightful book on the science of preference falsification titled "Private Truths, Public Lies"; You should reach out to him to have him on as a guest!

[@CollectiveConsciousness1111]

Yes please 🙏 Brilliant conversation 👏

[@Jake_Hamlin]

Vivek is also very aware of this

[@reapsolve]

I love this episode so much.

[@tomspaghetti]

Great interview! Just reserved the book!

[@tomtruhelka]

'The fear you don't go through becomes much bigger in your head than if you actually face it'. WOW. Uncut gem after 2 hours of interview. And then 'depression' part starts. Oh my god, what an icon Greg is!

[@brentcollins6108]

1984 hands down favorite book

[@Katharina643]

23:43 I am pleased to hear you mentioning the book of Job, which is a most sophisticated piece of literature, discussing the topic of good and bad occurrences in life and how we react and deal with it. It also goes into details of the origin of good and bad, which Job recognised but his friends ended up blaming Job for his misfortune, which God condemned. Personally I think that the ending is most profound in the sense that Job realised that humans are physical and have a shelf life, so to speak," no matter how good or bad", with no exception, unless God has a higher purpose. In my view it is this act of redemption Job acknowledged at the end and learned to understand... Metaphorically his double blessing also made the point....

[@dnaphysics]

Yes, absolutely. It is not a simple book. Greg was wonderfully enthusiastic about it. He needs to read it again tho because he missed the point of the greatness of God (or perhaps of the universe if you're an 'atheist' like Greg) and the uncomfortable need for us little humans to be humble. Just read it again, I'd say.

[@LookyLooRealEstate]

Excellent summarization

[@joeperez1317]

😂

[@BruceKarrde]

The issue with whataboutism is that, and I often have to use it, is because only one side gets a platform to discuss these topics. When the side I'm arguing from wants to discuss the same topic, but from our point of view, we get shut down and labeled a hate group. For example the loneliness within men. You can talk about it, however will meet 70% of Feminists saying "women have been oppressed by men for centuries blablabla". Men are getting shouted down for talking about men's issues. So, when a woman gets accused of raping a guy, we see women say "let's wait for all the facts to be present", but when a man is accused of raping a woman, he needs to be canceled asap. This is so frustrating, because men can't have any charity nor space to discuss.

[@mrshinesun]

lol that might be bc a lot of so-called men's right activists only bring up these arguments when women talk about their experience

[@plentyofsalmonellasir425]

Exactly. And also if you replace "women" by non-whites and "men" by whites from what you said, you get the same thing.

[@sebastiansirvas1530]

@@mrshinesun No, not really. For example, they also tried to make sure the legal definition of rape in India included the male victims of rape and female perpetrators of it (the definition starts with "A man is said to commit "rape" if he" and then describes the act as if only women were the victims of this), but feminist organizations opposed this change. How can you then say what you said with a straight face?

[@BruceKarrde]

@@mrshinesun I literally just wrote that wherever men try to talk about their issues, they get shut down and talked over by Feminist shout crowds.

[@djackson4605]

The funny thing is a lot of people replying to your comment will PROVE YOUR POINT lol. Our feminized culture has become a lot more emotional and reactive, so many people make things about themselves or their group INSTANTLY without even thinking... Its a symptom of extreme anxiety and lack of agency. They lash out vehemently, while also thinking of themselves as being attacked(?), just like a trauma survivor that is panicking even when in a safe, secure place. A lot of people aren't doing well, but instead of being vulnerable, they're trying to raise their self-esteem basically with bullying. They just don't make that connection because they're so weak, they feel vindicated or lack self-awareness. Either way its a lot of wasted time lol.

[@captaincole2092]

Have this guy on again!!! This was a fascinating chat. I'm a liberal and completely believable in what this guy is advocating for. We need more open discussion for our own sake as a country.

[@ShaneDonovan147]

Unbelievable...One of the few times I watched\listened END to END!!! Thanks GUYS!

[@filipskorec8723]

End to end? Are you trying to say you didn't listen to any of it? 🤣

[@Ellerich800]

Wish the universities could be completely reformed or disrupted to allow orders of magnitude more people to attend than just the elites. Without the limits of supply the world would be a better place. And more competition might solve the censorship problem.

[@SkywalkerSamadhi]

If only it wasn’t just the rich who coke afford higher education this country would be so much better for it.

[@sbenkimmie9579]

why keep calling what our current system has and breeds as elites when they are the most burdensome deadweights in a vicious death spiral at an end of an era??? oh yeah btw the only way these nugatory & mindless drones, we give preferential treatments to enabled by unnecessary suffering and misallocation of resources, are going to justify their continued existence in luxury and comfort is by making the young and simpler minded members of human family even dumber and therefore amoral and abominable. This is what I simply observe today, I wish my mind would change but every motherf**king interaction with the world punctures any kind of hopeful thoughts I try to have.

[@pcrizz]

Wish fake KZbin comments with fake identities made to look real spouting bullshit would wisen up and actually try to understand the world instead of making up their own horseshit.

[@PEERSEEMANN]

Very insightful. I was really shocked to hear how biased the top universities are in many ways. Reminds me almost of the state of the Catholic Church before Luther 😅

[@funstuffonthenet5573]

This guy is spot on. If we lose the ability to speak freely in our lives, the system has failed. We know the first ammendment applies to government enforcement of speech, but if we the culture devolves to not allow free speach then it will cause issues in all aspect of live including how all of society, private sector and government operates

[@yanelisoto1]

Amazing guest!

[@PatrickFerryCoach]

Thanks Greg for your difficult work!!! I wish the small people of the cancel culture would listen to Lex friedman, they would learn the power of LOVE.

[@H.Hardrada]

I have been saying this about "hate speech" for years. It's a dubious way to circumvent freedom of speech. It's biggest problem is that it has a high capacity for abuse and the fact that the subjective interpretation of "hate" makes it something that can be infinitely expanded to consume all speech of a political opposition.

[@houseofhas9355]

Yes, and hate speech laws can be used to lock up political rivals of a party. Say it's election time and a contender say something deeper hateful in one state therefore they are investigated and jail for a brief period. Private state actions are already doing this.

[@Jake_Hamlin]

I thought America had already set the precedent in the Skokie case. Skokie v. NSPA

[@kipscathy1850]

In my mid-size southern town, we have offered a course on the Bible as literature in high school for over 35 years. It’s a survey class, an elective, and paid for by a citizens committee. No state funds are used. No controversies. A wide array of children take it. Balance is possible in public schools. (But note, I’m not publicizing what state or town.! Don’t want to become a target of outsiders looking for some kind of cause. … we live in a crazy time. ). PS - we still teach civics too.

[@shuraowen]

“Am I weird?” “Yeah! But so what? Everybody is weird.” -Stand By Me(1986)

[@andreousa5855]

Thanks for the amazing podcast. I always wanted lex to interview a professional classical/jazz musician and watch him making questions about the struggle and the challenge of being a musician like Martha Argerich, Lugansky etc...

[@wearemany73]

Superb guest Lex 😊❤

[@ezequielcisneros5145]

“Oh Harvard.” 😂😂😂

[@JackKinross]

Amazing discussion. Thank you both.

[@djla5905]

respect to Greg for speak out about suicide stuff.. rip his friends

[@aga5109]

Yes, respect. Anyone reading it, please make sure you look out for people you know who might struggle with depression. Sometimes, it is not so obvious that they struggle mentally. There is still a stigma attached to depression and anxiety, etc. Suicidal thoughts should be taken seriously. They show that depression had altered a person's thinking to an extended that become self-destructive. It is related to depression & it needs to be treated. Sometimes suicidal ideation is accompanied by a plan. It is very dangerous & needs a doctor / psychologist attention. I met people whose loved ones committed suicide. It is heartbreaking how they felt. They have to live with this until the end of their lives. They always blame themselves for what they could have done differently to save their loved one. It is a horrible, deep grief they are faced with. So, empathetically reaching out to a person who is depressed is of paramount importance. Many lives can be saved by showing people that there is help & treatment available. Suicidal, self-degrading thoughts, and distorted thinking and cognitive decline of the higher cognitive functions are signs of depression. It is not the usual state of the mind or person's choice.

[@Greenandgold888]

i love how Greg talks with his hands!

[@brianmeen2158]

This was a great discussion - Greg is fighting the good fight .. I hope he is successful

[@A.J.1656]

Greg Lukianoff is a great guest. I've been able to hear him as a guest on the Armstrong and Getty podcast for a handful of years now.

[@ivorc8957]

Thank you Lex and Greg for some tangible data.

[@stefanconradsson]

This conversation is an instant classic.

[@burtonlee22]

This is great, Greg. Thanks Lex

[@BrocNerd]

Lex does such a great job. More people need to hear this conversation. Greg’s moderate approach to cancel culture is powerful

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

Loved this especially on religion. Took a philosophy of religion class in college and was fantastic. In the class we had Christians, a couple of Muslims, a few atheist, and a Buddhist. Covered each of the world religions very thoroughly and our finally was arguing for or against if Confuciusanisim should be consider a religion based on what we learned of the other world religions. One of my favorite classes I ever took.

[@matthewsmith3817]

It is always interesting to listen to these small civil discussions on what is right for a just society that will never truly be civilized. The destructive nature of the ego will remain undefeated until we are all gone.

[@arnoldstrong5553]

I guess that is the consequence of the fact that a child is always born without any knowledge and experience. So it all comes down to how good a job every parent and educator in their life did. And that is where, i feel we are deteriorating.

[@philipemerson473]

Listening to this gentleman was a broadening experience. I intend to read his books. Thank you.

[@DARKLYLIT]

I get the "dark cloud" you describe Lex, regarding your "revelatory perspectives" on humanity, particularly where human cruelty is concerned. It is certainly a challenge to learn to be dispassionate about it. The longer I live, the more I feel like a veil is constantly being lifted on what ACTUALLY is. Learning to look at things with more of a "huh...isn't that interesting", rather denying or refuting it and falling into despair, is something that can be cultivated. It's not so much resignation, but rather a better understanding that, by-and-large, how we observe humans behaving is how they have ALWAYS behaved. It's not new behaviour, but it is useful information/data to better understand how humans ACTUALLY can be.

[@Yologolow]

You can't hurt an enemy you can't even see so if you truly want someone censored you have already lost the war because you don't even know what side they're on

[@M.Mae.M]

Seemed to work well in the 80's.

[@dillyduncs]

If this enemy can't be seen, it slowly ceases to exist. Children don't grow up and suddenly decide to hate people - they hate people because people tell them to. Stop teaching children to be bigoted and the problem disappears overnight. Nobody inherently hates anyone, they get taught to by someone else - usually their parents, but further down the line by people with a platform on the internet.

[@I-Dophler]

Diverse opinions and ideas are free speech, no matter what.

[@I-Dophler]

@@Tormentality Good.

[@cmdr.murphy5421]

Watching from Germany, this was wholesome, thank you very much! 👃 I follow international discourses and I know this stark polarity and split between a perceived "black & white" perspective on things is probably most extreme in the US in the Western World (with realistically literally only having two parties and therefore only having two choices everytime in a so-called "democratic" processes) but I can see this sort of extremism taking root and festering in European societies as well. I cannot stress enough how much I agree with the seemingly old fashioned idea that democratic societies have to listen to and deal with ALL opinions and ideas in a rational discourse. Really listening to each other, especially one's perceived opponents, taking the time and energy to deal with it, discuss it and if necessary concede to an uncomfortable opinion is SO important for a civil society to actually maintain our hard worked and fought for ideals and ultimately peace for everyone. So much important stuff gets lost and buried in screaming fits and binary thinking when reality is so much more diverse. Reality is not just either or, black or white, 1 or 0, it's usually a variety of lots and lots of shades of grey and in a time of increasing conflicts we are well advised to realise that we are mostly out to just try and find peace with our selves and the ones around us. The discourse in my country is artificially narrowed by bad actors, and an open and thoughtful conversation like this would be unthinkable even on our publicly financed TV & radio stations currently. Keep up the good work, hats off to you sirs!

[@visuallization]

Finally a well thought discussion on that topic!

[@mikebrogowski]

This was really great. Thanks Lex. Again. ;)

[@crypticnomad]

What about "recreational outrage"? I started using that phrase to describe the fairly new, or new to me, phenomenon where people just make up largely absurd things about the "other side" and then get outraged by that fiction they just made up which also outrages the other side since it is absurd and usually offensive in some way. It is most common in political discussions and comes from both the left and the right. An example that I use as a mental meme, if you will, to illustrate the point is how about 6 months or maybe a year ago the fox news crowd was all worked up about how apparently some school was letting a kid use a litter box because they identified as a cat. Obviously that is just stupid nonsense made up by a right wing troll but that didn't stop it from making it on the news, if you call fox news "news" anyway, and it didn't stop thousands of people from being outraged by it. That example is obvious and overt but there are plenty of more subtle examples from both the left and right where they straight up make up shit about the other side and then get outraged at that nonsense they just made up.

[@tuscantony]

Brilliant conversation, thank you both SO much!

[@bohanwang-nt7qz]

🎯Course outline for quick navigation: [00:00-03:09]1. Cancel culture and knowing people's opinions -[00:14-00:55]Censorship leads to inaccurate understanding and group polarization, discouraging open dialogue. [03:09-25:07]2. The impact of cancel culture on academic freedom -[03:50-05:00]Fire, founded in 1999, by harvey silverglate and alan charles kors, aims to uphold civil liberties and first amendment rights. -[09:42-10:06]Discussing viewpoint discrimination and defining economics as a science or art. -[16:35-16:59]Discussion on left vs. right in academia, with million questions arising. [25:07-51:45]3. Freedom of speech and education -[26:12-26:41]Suggests teaching bible as historical document in public schools. -[37:33-38:06]Instances of administrator-led deplatforming and firings lack consequences at stanford and other institutions, indicating a need for accountability. -[42:11-42:43]Urging faculty and administrators to speak up for freedom of speech at universities, as there is a widespread hunger for it. -[43:05-43:41]University presidents' decisive actions end issues fast, but student takeovers show administrative involvement. -[47:10-47:35]Incentives can be used to encourage better discourse and discourage rhetorical tricks in conversations. [51:45-01:12:46]4. The impact of whataboutism -[53:19-53:47]Some try to downplay january 6th by comparing it to other riots, but both issues are concerning. -[56:36-57:02]The prospect of a jeb bush versus hillary clinton election raises concerns about dynastic influence and anger over legacy admissions. -[59:58-01:00:30]Elite education insults working class, treating 70% as illegitimate. -[01:02:22-01:02:45]People can be dismissed based on the perception of their political leanings, leading to avoidance of diverse perspectives. -[01:11:53-01:12:24]Advocating for caring about censorship, and discussing the benefits and harms of dei programs. [01:12:46-01:21:10]5. Impact of crt and academic freedom crisis -[01:19:57-01:20:52]University culture fosters group think, impacting free speech and selecting left-leaning individuals. [01:21:11-01:39:00]6. Academic fear and left-leaning academia -[01:23:23-01:23:47]90% of professors self-censor in research, class, and online due to fear of expressing controversial views. -[01:25:25-01:26:10]Elite departments lack conservative representation, leading to an unhealthy intellectual environment, with one-third of successful attempts to punish professors coming from off-campus right-wing sources. -[01:29:37-01:31:16]Mcwhorter and hughes discuss dismissing dissenting opinions based on race, gender, and ideology, impacting the ability to engage in meaningful debate. -[01:29:56-01:30:19]The speaker faces challenges in having their opinion validated based on their race, leading to frustration and a sense of invalidation. -[01:37:40-01:38:08]Hate speech regulation requires consensus on enforcement, impacting viewpoint diversity. [01:39:00-01:55:56]7. Freedom of speech and understanding extremist ideologies -[01:40:40-01:41:10]Censorship can lead to group polarization and data shows people being driven off twitter in 2017 and 2020. -[01:42:34-01:43:00]Daryl davis de-radicalized klan members through compassionate interactions. -[01:50:14-01:50:59]Allowing nazis to speak at skokie weakened their movement and led to its dissolution; it didn't turn into the disaster people expected. -[01:52:41-01:53:11]Author addresses cruelty in society leading to depression. -[01:54:31-01:55:08]Promoting intellectual humility and old-fashioned virtues leads to a fulfilling life. [01:55:56-02:06:15]8. The impact of cancel culture and tudor censorship -[01:56:14-01:56:39]Generation z dislikes cancel culture, as much of their content is online. -[02:00:13-02:00:38]Printing press led to disruptive period, adding millions to global conversation. -[02:01:18-02:01:42]Cultural adaptation is needed to harness the potential of disconfirmation as an engine for growth and wisdom. -[02:02:59-02:03:30]Real-time collective brain filled with virtual particles, reactions, and immediate jokes. [02:06:15-02:14:59]9. Living, freedom, and internet challenges -[02:08:09-02:08:38]KZbin recommendations can be effective for education if used correctly, providing good suggestions, and solving challenges in expanding knowledge. -[02:09:29-02:09:53]Research is shoddy, experts are arrogant, people seek respect and integrity. -[02:11:13-02:11:39]Editors declare biases, but still find ways to justify themselves. [02:14:59-02:31:48]10. Impact of cancel culture -[02:15:45-02:16:49]Speaker reflects on experiencing severe depression, seeking help at a psychiatric facility, and attempting suicide before eventually writing about it in 'coddling the american mind.' -[02:30:28-02:30:55]Encouragement to embrace uniqueness and gratitude for important work by greg. offered by Coursnap

[@TSLAsupercharger]

Lex you are amazing ❤

[@linkin543210]

Ironically watching this on CCCPTube

[@reubenmcmurray4377]

How is that ironic? KZbin is privately owned so has nothing to do with free speech?

[@Lockdown335]

Ironically have no idea about the platform your using while whinging about it LOL

[@linkin543210]

@@reubenmcmurray4377 Google controls 90% of searches, KZbin is the second largest search engine in the world. Google pays companies to include their searches and apps and currently being investigated for monopolistic practices. Private companies aren’t allowed to do whatever they want, especially when they abuse to their dominant position.

[@reubenmcmurray4377]

@@Lockdown335 Actually that is kinda ironic lol.

[@Earl_E_Burd]

Isn't it ironic... don't you think?

[@MichaelSmith420fu]

Education should be perceived simply as organized communication

[@EducationalRenaissanceProject]

Acknowledged that it has been; but not embracing it as the status quo or something which cannot be changed. It absolutely can be changed. We "SHOULD" think of education as access to information, the ability to pick through information and critically think about it in its application and how it can empower the health and prosperity of humanity . We must restore the integrity of science and no longer fear it conflicts with any religion. This man has the interpretation of Job very twisted and out of context but I cannot resign myself to teach it on a comment post.

[@trivialone11]

Thank you, Greg Lukianoff, for affirming and putting into words what I've known for about a decade. But clearly what I'm writing here does not matter because I am: conservative, white, male and yes Christian. LOL... canceled for simply being. If it wasn't so tragic, I would not care. I've heard and can hear what you have to say about both conservative and liberal. Thank you for your contribution.

[@eddiemun17]

who tried cancelling you? lol come on name one person. the last people that tried real cancelling was your ancestors hanging people and enslaving them

[@kevinmichaelcallihansr5053]

Thank you kindly to our host, Mr. Fridman, and his learned guest experiences with 1st amendment rule of law viewpoints knowing that one viewport assumes another viewpoint implicitly exists and that small notion is part of seemingly thinking freedom: the "man" is scared of freedom thinkers which makes this dangerous. We can resolve all of these matters. I appreciate the areas noted. 🐬

[@elrevesyelderecho]

57:48 Once again, you need to chat with Matt Goodwin about this topic. That's exactly 100% what is happening in the UK.

[@Greg-lw4zb]

Wonderful discussion. Thank you, Greg and Lex.

[@martinjohnson5498]

1:00:00 anger and depression are very common among people, even trained psychologists, who have to deal with psychopaths and sociopaths, which is a large part of what Lukianoff is analyzing and writing about.

[@EducationalRenaissanceProject]

Empathy is not hard and you should not need to try- some of us cannot turn it off

[@beforesunsetboxing6017]

If I were to entertain a wild guess, I'd guess that mediocre students, mediocre administrators (some of whom maybe wanted to be professors themselves) and mediocre professors have always been envious of the intellectual prowess of the (other) professors, vs. their own feelings on inadequacy. So now finally they have the opportunity to act on those feelings, and they do. Envy, unrealized ambitions, those are powerful negative emotions that can push some people to do just about anything. It would be interesting to measure if we see top students, very intelligent, top of their classes, actively participating in the cancelations.

[@sfaxo]

The beautiful part about the American constitution is the accumulation of human wisdom because the founders were well schooled in philosophy.

[@sharonkowaleski1267]

Lex you have many skills Interviewing anyone. So relaxing listening to your podcast.

[@miloslavskiy873]

Lex, ты Молодец ❤

[@cpeace3172]

Lex, Russell Brand is being cancelled by corporate media and the British government. Please have him on soon to discuss this

[@carlhitchon1009]

He's just like Alex. Is that what you want? To be told about conspiracies?

[@oystercatcher943]

He’s just been charged with multiple sexual offences on overwhelming evidence and a similar pattern of behaviour over years which led to him losing work. I’ll pass on platforming this individual

[@yashathebelgianmalinois348]

@@oystercatcher943”platforming”

[@terrykickham3268]

Thank goodness for the few people like Lex who bring on people knowledgeable & insightful like Mr. Lukianoff!

[@tigere1111]

Beautiful and wonderful conversation. Thanks to both of you gentlemen.✌🏽🗽