Plato, Phaedo | Suicide and Readiness for Death | Philosophy Core Concepts

[@joelthom1586]

Pain and Pleasure are the walls, That build this cage. This body is a trap that, The soul cannot escape. The only dream that I have ever cared about, Is to live as a free man. Funny, that I never can. Pain and Pleasure are the scenes, That make this play. This life is the perception that, The soul creates. The only dream that I have never figured out, Is to live as a free man. Funny, that I never can. Pain and Pleasure are the hands, That dig this grave. Death's redemption is the dream, The soul will take. And it's the only dream that I was told to live without, To live as a free man.

[@GregoryBSadler]

New Core Concept video for the Phaedo

[@jeffsullivan4182]

At first I was really surprised that Cato chose this book to bring with him to his suicide, instead of a similar one by Chrysippus or another early Stoic, but really, most of this is completely workable within Stoicism, on top of being great stuff to think about in general. Thanks for all your work!

[@StephenDeagle]

As abstract as all this is, seems like an incredibly useful guide to not offing oneself.

[@rocktoasted]

Stephen Deagle When kept alive by a machine and losing more of my faculties little by little stopping the treatment is not suicide.. In my case I call it letting nature take it's course..The thing about philosophy is the variables....

[@jackpivarnik1278]

brilliant. you're very clearly educated on the topic. thank you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@Brucewayne77750]

nah, if my creations killed themselves i would ask myself what did i do wrong.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Guess there's a big distance between you and the views of the people the video focuses on

[@Deeredman4]

I would say that we did not ask to be objects owned by the Gods and therefore are under no obligation to obey or make them happy. It is therefore not unjust to commit suicide.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well then you're likely not going to get much out of the dialogue. Good luck with your studies

[@Deeredman4]

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to offend anyone. Just, upon consideration; I saw what I believed was a flaw in that line of reasoning.

[@GregoryBSadler]

@@Deeredman4 Good luck with your studies

[@David-cm4ok]

I would say that in talking of gods etc, we might as well talk of monsters or ghouls or leprechauns in relation to suicide.

[@HalTuberman]

Nice. I liked the lawnmower analogy.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@anorderedhole2197]

I think one reason Socrates sees this as the will of the gods is that Plato's dialectics happen reflecting on something salient in the moment rather than some like three panel summit on the soul. It's v likely that if Socrates died of old age that his mind wouldn't be fit enough to talk about death as he was about to die. But of course the characters being written aren't aware of this but in a way Socrates is.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Not really sure what you're meaning to say here

[@anorderedhole2197]

Well, many things are perplexing about sentencing an elderly man to death to say the least. Did Athens really just now get a whiff of what Socrates has been doing his entire life? Also, I find Socrates pals a little unprepared for how they lament about a future with out a man who is realistically going to die soon anyways. But, like Hegel mentions the ancients had to take wholeness and make it particular. In away Socrates is doing that by talking about death by actually dying. No philosophical system could be complete without addressing death. Socrates could not gather his friends together and poison himself on his own volition to engage in the 'final' discussion. It would come off as anti-social. By Athens mediating his death he can purposely die in sound mind (while adequately addressing the soul) without grossing out his friends who could not ethically chat with a man committing suicide. They would probably just restrain him or something. If he was sick while he died he wouldn't have that moment where the chains are released and he's suddenly unburdened and ready to chat. He'd just be miserable not in the mood or not even sound enough to speak clearly. I think what is more mysterious is why the gods are busting his balls by condemning him to death for corrupting the youth rather than his excellent philosophy.

[@blackmetalmagick1]

Subbed! Glad I found your channel pal

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you enjoy the videos

[@IjazPir]

I want to study philosophy in a structured manner. Is there a course structure that I can follow with material on my own?

[@GregoryBSadler]

There are hundreds you can find, if you start looking. And there isn't any single "right" or "best" one

[@HippieChick9]

X Philosopher realizes death is not bad - actually good because the soul (immortal) is freed of the body (mortal) X So….why not suicide then? x it would be unjust (possibly unwise, cowardly, intemperate) x we don’t really belong to ourselves-we are the god(s) possession x only if the god(s) will, it is all right to die by one’s own hand x but if the god(s) are good, providential masters……why leave?

[@scottwitty1]

Hey everyone just wondering if anyone could help me out and ID that book Greg is reading from at 12:10 in the video. I would really like to read that, thanks for the help.

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Danger Ranger 420 It's the Loeb edition of the Discourses

[@scottwitty1]

Thanks for such a fast response, now just need to find a copy.

[@BorisNVM]

In the dialogue, Socrates gives the example of the slaves and their masters. According to Socrates, it is unjust for the master to have a slave suicide without his permission, because the master own the life of the slave. Which isn't very relatable very much in modern times.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Sure. What’s the relevant point you want to make? I think you’re probably smart enough to translate the argument into something relatable. So I’m sure you’re not just here complaining, because that would be a waste of both of our time

[@mollyurick8563]

You should do some stuff on Timaeus

[@GregoryBSadler]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJy7fKeuocp6d5o

[@stringedassassin]

No gods, no problems.

[@dannymunoz8027]

Excuse me, I'm reading the Pheado and noticed that they keep referring to the soul as a her. Is there some mythology behind this?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Psyche - "soul" - is feminine in Greek

[@Sp0on777]

Fascinating stuff

[@Killerofdemons666]

suicide is never the answer

[@paulohyp]

killerofdemons669 how come?

[@solomonmoto232]

@@paulohyp Because...some one already died for you so you have a everlasting life..Google it out..

[@trollgod6467]

@paulohyp ik life is really tough sometimes and suicide seems the only way out. However, i believe suicide is the permanent solution to a temporary problem. But i also think that there are other ways of forgetting pain for sometime and living still even this is a temporary solution to a permanent problem. So suicide is not a corect answer and so is living with unbearable pain. It upto the individual to pick the poison.