Grimdark Future 3.0 NEW RULES (OnePageRules) - Discussion

We discuss the NEW RULES for Grimdark Future 3.0 and Age of Fantasy 3.0! @onepagerules
Check out our first 3.0 Game here: • We played GRIMDARK FUT...
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#onepagerules #grimdark #wargaming

[@testtest648]

I like the new unit coherency rule a lot.

[@hauntswargaming]

Yea 6 was too restrictive

[@YeAuldGrump]

@@hauntswargaming I can also see adding a 'Loose Formation' quality - increasing the 1 inch to 2 inches, and the 9 for the entire unit to 12. (Orcs, I am looking at YOU.)

[@zraal3759]

​@@YeAuldGrumpI like that. An opposite would be tight formation that would reduce. Tight formation would make sense for some robot legions units, many different swarm units, and pretty much any unit that is known for marching in a formation.

[@timroham]

Not sure if it is featured in Grimdark Future, but the change to Undead only crumbling when they fail morale instead of whenever they would take a test is fantastic.

[@marvalice3455]

I believe "robot" works the same

[@hauntswargaming]

So what do you guys think of the new rules?? EDIT: Just to clarify, The rending rule has two separate effects now. It always gives a -1 to regen rolls, regardless of what the hit roll was. On a 6 to hit, it still gives the -4 AP. EDIT: ALSO, OPR is still fine-tuning version 3, so some of this stuff might change over the next few months. :) like for example, they added a -1 to regen to poison as well.

[@hauntswargaming]

​@@Canuck_Retro_Gamingthe rules are free so that is unlikely lol

[@RotGolem]

@@Canuck_Retro_GamingDude, it seems you're talking about the wrong game 😂

[@hauntswargaming]

@@RotGolemI think I know which one :p

[@thomascruise4966]

@@hauntswargaming I think I’ve heard of it… something like SpaceMace 69k or something, right? 🤣

[@Habes]

Great having Brooks in the video. Having the back and forth really makes this format shine. I'm happy with the rending change as it makes it more consistant. Felt bad taking rending to counter regen, only for it not to proc because you don't get 6's. It's only a nerf for quality 6+ models, as they don't totally negate regen when they hit now. But that's from my GDFF. Haven't played too much of GDF. Haven't done the math, but I think the furious rule might be a nerf to my ork boys unfortunately 😢 Fearless is a great change. Feels worthwhile now. Cool to hear both your thoughts. Keen to see more 3.0 battle reps.

[@hauntswargaming]

Yeah I'm curious to see how the furious rule ends up affecting armies that rely on it heavily. I think it would be nice to have another army specific ability or spell that goes along with that, That would give you more control over getting those charges off.

[@alrethianscraftsbattles]

Thanks for this guys, i am currently going over the new rules and army books. It's cool to see these changes explained.

[@hauntswargaming]

No problem! I need to go through the armies as well. There are several that I've never even looked at the rules for 😅 Opr is going to be fine tuning them over the next couple months so I'm looking forward to seeing what they change

[@thomascruise4966]

“Suppressive fire” doesn’t mean the same thing though. Yeah, it’s a high volume of fire, but it’s generally not effective at resulting in more hits on target. The whole purpose of suppressive fire is to make the enemy keep their heads down so they’re not shooting back at you. You’re suppressing their ability to return fire. Effective engagement range for a pistol is 25 meters or less. Makes sense you shouldn’t be able to engage a combat aircraft with a handgun or shotgun. Counter was on Wolf Brothers, it gave +1 Attack with a chosen weapon when you get charged. Didn’t matter much honestly; your unit usually got killed by the unit that charged them before they got to hit, so the +1A from maybe one or two models left never really mattered. Now at least it’ll be more of a choice whether to charge them or not… All Battle Brothers and Prime Brothers also have Fearless.

[@foxhound963]

Thank you.

[@hauntswargaming]

Good points!

[@lucasbittencourt8290]

Great video, very comprehensive description! Thank you for sharing!

[@tompollack136]

Please keep covering grimdark future. It’s such an awesome game and needs more exposure and love!

[@ricoqwertz123]

Thanks for breaking down the new stuff 👍🏼

[@christopherpittman445]

Rolls of 6 for Defense always succeed. So even if your Orc Boy with a 5+ save is hit with an AP4 weapon, he still gets to save on a 6. Something y'all said around the 13min mark made me think that y'all may be playing it differently.

[@hauntswargaming]

We do use the 1s always fail, 6s always succeed rule :)

[@tomcaza]

New guy here to OPR... regarding caster - I kind of like the idea of "visible bidding", gives a little betting game and see who is willing to sacrifice more for the roll and force your opponent to use up their tokens. I do not know what the rules were previously, but I really like this idea of a caster archetype army that could be built in either setting! Great content, BTW!

[@hauntswargaming]

We haven't really been using the bidding mechanic in recent games. I prefer to let the caster use however many they want and then the defender can add modifiers if they want. It's a smoother way to play it IMO

[@cyphertheory]

nice overview and a good format - enjoyed this

[@hauntswargaming]

Glad to hear it! Thanks for the feedback!

[@deliriousaquarius5799]

I honestly enjoy the update! Mostly for the attacks vs tough/model ratio. I wont be seeing my tank get blown away by a group of paper thin minions just because they have 100 attacks and my big expensive guys are now worth the points because they can rip things apart!

[@thomascruise4966]

That was one of the main reasons they wanted to make the changes - firstly to balance out things like cover that really hit low-Quality armies hard (Battle Brothers only got a small penalty going from 3+ to 4+, but HDF got their hit chances cut in half from 5+ to only 6+), and to make the game less outright lethal so more elite armies weren’t just hopelessly swamped just by the amount of dice you can throw. Dropping support-type units like heavy gunners from 5 models to 3 and dropping flamer weapons from A6 to A1 Blast 3 means they still hit with a decent punch against other units but you’re not throwing out 30 attacks with a unit of 5 guys against a single model. I think they could’ve gone Blast 6 on flamer weapons and kept the balance AND the more anti-horde feeling of them, but that’s what house rules are for!😆

[@paultrasband]

New subscriber. Love the coverage of OPR

[@hauntswargaming]

Appreciate it! Thanks :)

[@thegod-emperorofmankind6638]

I don't necessarily see the caster blind bidding as necessary, since you can only have so many tokens on a caster at once. Also, the way I'm reading it seems to imply to me that this is only one action. For instance, if I go to cast a spell, I add the tokens necessary for the spell and then any tokens I want to add from another caster. Then my opponent can respond one time by adding however many tokens he can from a caster within 18 in. Maybe I'm reading that wrong but to me that's scenario seems pretty fair and like it won't cause too many issues.

[@Artmesa]

I am super excited about the new rules. I am going to dust off my 40k army and give them a spin with the solo AI rules!

[@cortofredudu]

I really liked this video format ! Quite hopping to hear more of them on the channel. As a Robot legion player I'm sad not hearing your point of view about the new Robot Rules. OLD : Whenever this unit takes a morale test, it is passed automatically. Then, roll as many dice as remaining models/tough in the unit, and for each result of 1-2 the unit takes one wound, which can’t be regenerated. NEW : Whenever this unit fails a morale test, it counts as passed instead. Then, roll as many dice as remaining models/tough with this rule, and for each result of 1-3 the unit takes one wound, which can't be regenerated. On one side I'm glad that like Fearless the Moral test is a double layer of passing instead of auto pass BUT on the over side the 1-3 per wound is quite brutal. I'm especially concerned about the Warriors with their Q3+ and D4+. I really struggle to see the use on a 5 size warrior unit vs a 5 size Eternal unit. For 50pts you basically have a massive gape of survival chances due to the Defence differences between both profiles. I wonder if pushing the basic unit size from warriors to 10 wouldn't be better even by downing Quality to a 4 or even a 5+. The choice of running them would be on 10 warriors I could put on a transport and push forward or a 20 warriors more resilient but giving mobility up. In all cases, enjoy the hobby and nether forget, its just a game ;)

[@hauntswargaming]

Thanks for the comment! I didn't even know about that robot legions rule change! Oof! We are considering doing an army overview for each army, as OPR does a final pass on them for 3.0. They are going to be doing 5 or so armies a month.

[@foxhound963]

You should definitely do the faction reviews, I would love and that

[@thomascruise4966]

OPR has also always been very supportive of house/custom rules to use in your own gaming group; the Army Forge utility (I’m not sure if that’s a Patreon-only function or if it’s available for everyone) would let you customize the unit to be standard size 10, which of course you can double. Not sure if it would affect the points per model or not just to double the squad size, but it’ll definitely have an impact to change their Quality. I think the intent of the changes was to see the Robot Legions passing their morale checks more without taking losses but failing one will be painful to them. Q3 is still a great base stat, so I’m not really sure why that’s a worry - dropping their Quality to 4+ or 5+ would just see them rolling those 50/50 death dice that much more often due to failed morale. Think of it this way - if you lose close combat at below half strength and fail your morale, you’re still not automatically wiped off the board…

[@cortofredudu]

​@@thomascruise4966sorry not answering earlier had the notification turned down 😅 Custom units are only an option for patreon member. What I not for the moment. Sure that dropping quality will have consequences on the average passed tests but statistically killing an half of the unit will be less easier on a 10 robot squad because the attacker will have to achieve more hits then for a 5 robot units. So yes more easily to fail an Moral test but more difficult to trigger it I was thinking on the quality drop more on a way on point cost reduction.

[@kurt-the-viking]

I hope theres an alternative to the caster-vs-caster bidding system. One of the best parts about OPR v1 and v2 for me was that 100% of information was public which made solo play very enjoyable. Bidding forces hidden information and all solo players will need to invent a workaround...like maybe attacker declares token bid, then a defender caster can spend tokens but those defense tokens only count if the defender rolls a 4+ or whatever.

[@battleknights9636]

not a perfect solution but if you are playing solo you could try rolling a d3 for opponents counters after you chose yours ?!

[@thomascruise4966]

I don’t think it was intended to be any kind of blind bidding. They’ve never really had that in OPR that I can remember. I think it’s a straight up thought that to impose a negative modifier on a spell means you’re having to waste your ability to cast your own spells, so is it really worth it to spend 2 tokens of your own to put a spell back to a 4+ that your enemy paid to go on a 2+? Sometimes it might be, sometimes not. That’s the tactical decision. I like it.

[@gameofjones4644]

Does it not work simply by people bidding back and for until they're either both out of tokens or one side folds? With 6 tokens max, it's not likely going to take long and is kind if thematic as a psyker calls on more and more reserves to combat their rival.

[@Daemonettee]

I can't wait for your next battle report! 😃

[@eugenemeidinger1884]

I found this really helpful.

[@kaidelege7579]

Like the discussion / podcast format. Currently painting and hobbying alot, so I'm wanting to listen to more post 3e OPR discussion. Maybe get Brooks on to do faction reviews or more podcast style episodes.

[@hauntswargaming]

Thanks for the input! I was thinking about possibly doing some faction focus videos. Also thinking about doing post battle conversations for Patreon supporters.

[@Commodore22345]

I've noticed they are slowly making the game more complex as time goes on. The game is still pretty straightforward right now, but I hope they don't get carried away with these changes, otherwise they are going to lose the primary thing that makes Grimdark Future attractive as a game system: it's relatively simple format that's easy to pick up and play.

[@w0197]

Living games that update regularly seem to always have power or complexity creep. Sad to see.

[@KeloseDEC]

There are still some fiddly rules (like rending and poison now being two rules in one), but overall I think it is a big improvement. I actually like the aircraft rule because otherwise they just get shot to hell immediately after their first turn (happens in 40k all the time). It is odd that they did not specify order for counter magic. I would have preferred to see the opposing caster just bid after the primary one. Maybe to balance it out they could make a rule of 1 counter token per caster level or something. I like the idea of having a core of cheap wizards ( i play fantasy) that just exist for powering other spells or countering.

[@hauntswargaming]

Yea, that would be fun to try out running wizards for buffing spells. I'm working on a change daemon list kind of like that ATM actually :p That's where the spell bidding might get clunky IMO, but I haven't tested it out yet.

[@jamesreid6778]

Had a game of 3.0 last week with Robot Legions... so much more fun.

[@anymajordude87]

I think they need to spilt Grimdark Future into Large and Small game rules. Large games with aircraft and Artillery on full 4x6 boards with 2000+ points. Small games without aircraft and Artillery with a max of 2000 points on 4x4 table.

[@hauntswargaming]

I can't say that I don't think that they belong in a 2K list, but personally I wouldn't bring an aircraft in anything less than 3K. Same with certain artillery units. It really just depends on the stat line. So far I think individual units feel a lot more balanced compared to version 2.

[@MrMaltavius]

This video is in need of chapters!

[@onerollbattles]

the new poison seems like its actually very big, units with 6+ save went from a 1 in 6 change to an one in 36 change of saving though it's not much use against things with high saves.

[@marasmusine]

That blind bidding for Caster(X) is going to work out great in solo games. Any advice on handing that?

[@hauntswargaming]

There's nothing about modifiers in the solo rules. You could always just roll for it if the possibility for bidding is there :p

[@GazghoulThraka471]

Onepagerules is gonna be in the same boat with Warhammer with all these changes

[@hauntswargaming]

Nah, they are fine tuning the game. vs GW which only makes changes to sell products

[@nashpainting]

I like the blind-bidding. It adds some good tension, but it may end up slowing the game a little. Nice format for the podcast

[@MinhHieu-ie6eh]

Hey Haunt do you know how to make a balance 3000pt Battle Brothers army build ? you know like good melee, solid range, and just a all-rounder type of army and also do you know what the heck is a Master Destroyer ? is it a Master Brothers but in Destroyer armor or what ?

[@hauntswargaming]

Battle Brothers were actually pretty weak in version 2. I would say focus on getting at least 12 activations. That might mean running heroes as separate units. Every time I've played against the battle brothers they got out activated. Generally, I like to have at least one heavy support unit, one ambush unit and one fast unit. And yeah a master destroyer is just a hero destroyer.

[@MinhHieu-ie6eh]

@@hauntswargaming Oh ok so then which Battle Brothers unit can fit the role of heavy support unit, ambush unit, and fast unit then ? and also Master Destroyer is just literally Master Brothers but in Destroyer armor right ? ok then.

[@hauntswargaming]

@@MinhHieu-ie6eh for heavy support, a unit with tough 9 or higher. For ambush and fast, those are both keywords that the unit would have.

[@MinhHieu-ie6eh]

@@hauntswargaming hm ok so is it fine if i bring a Artillery unit and a Aircraft Unit intro the army build as well ? and also beside the unit you just talk about, are there any more unit that should consider to be on the list as well ?

[@hauntswargaming]

@@MinhHieu-ie6eh that's totally up to you! If you are using the OPR app it will tell you if your list is within the games parameters. Just try units and figure out which ones you like. We are planning on doing some faction focus videos in the future where we'll talk more about list building and individual units but it's a lot to get into here. :)

[@boonchiun]

Relentless gives +2 hits on a 6, instead of only +1 hit, I think. Very useful for high volume, long range guns like the Havoc Autocannons. EDIT: Same with Furious, I think almost all of the 'trigger on 6s' ability give +2 hits

[@hauntswargaming]

Hits on 6s are multiplied by 2

[@thelordash11]

@@hauntswargaming You're right. And it's good this way: 2 extra hits would have been too much.

[@RaMa-im4so]

I'm not a fan of the difficult terrain rule, I was hoping they would change that

[@hauntswargaming]

I've been using it more selectively because it's so punishing. For example, the rocky hills I use, I stopped calling difficult terrain and instead we just measure the vertical distance. (Which is also a new rule. Now all vertical movement is counted)

[@blackmagick77]

Not a fan of the rending change. It's supposed to be a counter to regen. Having to have on a 6 and only taking 1 away from regen makes it too weak. Impact kinda sucks too now. It was always fun to ram your empty transports into things for some auto hits

[@hauntswargaming]

Well the problem with impact was that it happened outside of the combat phase, which created issues. Like when to take wound tests / morale tests. It'll still hit most of the time so I wouldn't really say it's a significant nerf. As far as rending, maybe splitting it into two separate abilities would have been a better way. It's really just one side of the equation. Until we see how they balance specific units/armies out it's hard to say how it will affect the game.

[@blackmagick77]

@@hauntswargaming It seems like in your video you were saying the impact issues were mostly fantasy. I never saw that side of it and never came across that. That's a good point then about the timing of what goes first. Having Necrons as my second army, I love the rending nerf but I agree there should be some kind of ability separately then to add that because regen can get out if hand. Especially when you stack it with an aegis like effect or regen buffs

[@Tatoren]

The Rending change is -1 to Regen always, not just on 6's. 6's get you the AP(4)

[@blackmagick77]

@@Tatoren Ooh OK. That's a lot better then

[@roshee5573]

Why use models with poison? Massive nerf . Gone from a potential of scoring 3 hits on a “6” to now jus5 your opponent re rolling saves of a “6” . Example a model with a 3+ save still has a pretty good chance of passing the re roll since I don’t know of any “poison” models having AP

[@hauntswargaming]

I think they added a minus one to regen to it

[@icycoatl3185]

They did add a -1 to regen since this, so it’s good for that. Also having to reroll 6’s on defense seems like it could actually be pretty darn nasty against things that already had only a def of 5+ or 6+. I mean, those units are probably going to go down anyway, but poison now makes it much harder for those to survive on sheer luck and will make them go down faster.

[@hauntswargaming]

@@icycoatl3185 yea, I think the additional -1 to regen makes it a solid ability. I love what they did with counter as well (Now it's -1 to total impact attacks per model). Looking forward to trying that out 😄

[@helmkekitsune813]

KoW needs to rework phalanx, because spearmen are garbo right now.

[@thel1chking]

2K Competetive rules - you can have 8 hero casters legally ….

[@hauntswargaming]

You can only have 4 heroes in a 2k list

[@thel1chking]

Read the new Force Organization rules, last paragraph. Only 4 Heroes and 4 Casters are allowed. However "Heroes that are also Casters count as only one of the two slots". This means you can have 8 hero casters - 4 will take up Hero Slots, and 4 will take up Caster Slots. Gaetano is aware and keeping an eye on it.@@hauntswargaming

[@falcogress1136]

I had to stop listening after 4.5 minutes. Up until then you interpreted rending wrong and where completely off the mark what makes units with certain rules better or worse.