Grimdark Future 3.1 ALREADY?! What changed now? (OnePageRules) - Discussion

We discuss the NEW, NEW RULES for Grimdark Future 3.1 and Age of Fantasy 3.1!!! We also talked about a few of the original version 3 changes that we missed in the previous rules video.
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 Stuff we missed in the last video
8:40 3.1 Rules Updates
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#onepagerules #grimdark #wargaming

[@hauntswargaming]

Thanks for watching and hitting that like button! 😉 What are your thoughts on the new rules? Are there any rules you wish would have been added or changed?

[@thomascruise4966]

I’m absolutely happy they made Counter-Attack worthwhile. Used to be useless - am extra Attack with a specified weapon does no good if you all still get dead from whatever charged you before you get to swing back. Now, you might still get wiped by whatever charges you but at least you’ll have a chance to make it hurt first!

[@zraal3759]

GW: Changes rules. Players: Well crap how much is this going to cost me in money, effort, and time. OPR: Changes rules. Players: Wonder what they have changed.

[@MalachiHealey]

Damn. I have to spend $0.75 and print it again?!?!?!

[@davidhalstead402]

I would love to see you guys do a run down of the factions for both Grimdark and Fantasy. That would be really cool

[@hauntswargaming]

We plan on doing that :) Maybe as early as November

[@control745]

That would be awesome if you guys did army breakdowns. Alien hive, orcs, demon factions!

[@cjwestphal397]

The Top-Down line of sight rules are what Kings of War uses. I feel it works pretty well for ranged/magic combat in rank and flank games. I could see myself using it for Age of Fantasy: Regiments, but with games with more "nebulous" unit formations like AoF and GDF (and when dealing with three-man units in the skirmish versions), I will likely still be using the normal "models' eye view" version of line of sight.

[@chriskoeder1229]

Honestly giving things a height of 1, 2, 3, or even higher as far as line of sight goes is the only thing that really makes sense. It frees up modeling opportunities as well.

[@hauntswargaming]

I would argue that the footprint/shape of the model adds to the flavor :p

[@chriskoeder1229]

@hauntswargaming It definitely adds to flavor but if we just go off base size or say something in the unit description it's just a lot more clean. I'm old enough to remember people in 40K modeling all of their spacemarines crawling on their stomachs to get an advantage when true line of sight was a thing.

[@PF_K]

@@chriskoeder1229 True line of sight still is a thing, and people don't do that.

[@chriskoeder1229]

@toddfagan True line of sight is fine to an extent but depending on how competitive you're playing it can get messy and it does mess up modeling opportunities.

[@thomascruise4966]

Adding to the line of sight topic, my people go really practical with what they can see vs. what they can shoot and realistically hurt. A banner bearer, for instance - you might be able to see the banner itself, or an ornament on the back like a sergeant’s banner or a samurai flag, but realistically are you going to hurt the bearer if you can only shoot his flag? The exception being things with indirect fire that can lob over stuff, like mortars or grenades. Do big cool banners and Sergeant flags and whatnot without putting yourself at a disadvantage!

[@hauntswargaming]

For basic los they recommend that the model be able to see 10% of the target to have los. Personally, I wouldn't count a banner unless the firing weapon has lock-on.

[@thomascruise4966]

@@hauntswargaming I wouldn’t count it even if it had lock-on just because things like a rocket launcher still doesn’t arc over intervening terrain. Yeah, you can see the banner, you can shoot the banner. But shooting the banner wouldn’t take the bearer out of action or hurt anyone in the squad.🤷🏼‍♂️

[@edevans5991]

Just keep in mind that your models are static but soldiers would be moving dynamically. Don't get too caught up in realism. That said, I wouldn't use a banner for line of sight except maybe for an army banner that could draw fire.

[@Aconspiracyofravens1]

@@thomascruise4966have you seen a javelin? It has a top attack mode

[@thomascruise4966]

@@Aconspiracyofravens1 I have, and that would be ok for armor but you don’t really use anti-tank rockets against infantry, and anything like that in-game would have the Indirect rule.

[@MinhHieu-ie6eh]

Hey Haunt has you ever try a Grimdark Future army vs Age of Fantasy army battle report ? because the game system of both those are kind similar to each other, so can you make a battle report of that ? it will be interesting to see that, especially a battle report between an Saurian Starhost (Grimdark Future) army vs Saurians (Age of Fantasy) army.

[@hauntswargaming]

No plans to do that currently, but perhaps someday we'll try that :p

[@alrethianscraftsbattles]

Thanks for the overview guys. It's much appreciated. I don't think the Line of Sight is something i will be using much as described. We always go eye level of the miniature and determine what it can see and what not. Makes it a bit more realistic, to how we play it at least

[@hauntswargaming]

Agreed, I also enjoy using the basic line of sight from the minis perspective. We'll probably just stick to that unless we play regiments. Thanks :)

[@alrethianscraftsbattles]

@@hauntswargaming Yeah true, I can see it being a good option for regiment 👍

[@christopherpittman445]

The penalties to regen that Rending and Poison provide are very much appreciated. Regen is a bit too potent otherwise. I especially like how poison works now. You'd imagine that poison would be especially effective against fleshy/lightly-armored (low DEF) opponents, and that is exactly how it functions.

[@notreallydavid]

I don't play (no space or cash), but I'm very interested in the system. I _think_ I saw a Haunts game in which poison rolls were made for attacks on a vehicle. Does that happen? If it does, could a case be made for mechanised things and (Fantasy only) undead being immune to poison? How do GW games handle this stuff? Time I shut up. All best.

[@hauntswargaming]

OPR doesn't really have unit "archetypes" aside from maybe heroes, so the best they can do is make poison more effective against lightly armored units. Nothing is immune to poison currently that I know of. It would make sense to add a keyword for mechanized units, but I think it would create a lot of balance issues.

[@ArkhBaegor]

@@notreallydavid "Poison" is a bit of a misnomer imo, I think "acid" fits better with what they're going for

[@notreallydavid]

@@ArkhBaegor Ah - gottit! Thanks!

[@notreallydavid]

@@hauntswargaming Interesting. Thanks.

[@sitrucsimian5450]

Time to download the books again!

[@telleryoutube4458]

and its freeeeeeee

[@user-rv8mk4cx5o]

I assume they mean that some sort of chasm that is more than 3" deep and 1" wide. Or maybe if you have a unit in the upper level of a ruin, and maybe there's another ruin that is less than 1" away, the unit can jump across the gap and stay at the same level.

[@drewbakka5265]

Imo top down is best for regiments And volumetric is for skirmish games

[@hauntswargaming]

Makes sense! I'd like to try regiments out sometime and would probably use top down for that. It's nice that they added the option.

[@marasmusine]

Top down LOS is also what you would use if you are using 6mm and want the "battletech map" feel.

[@telleryoutube4458]

love the height # rules, reminds me of battletech

[@niefali]

Curious if we ever get a digital game version of OPR. They already have the 3d models anyway and GW still refuses to give us a digital version. So far we only have Tabletop simulator.

[@meatybtz]

The LOS changes are great and take out ambiguity and are much like Warmachine's "size" rules. So it's not about model but base size = this height, period. No laying down models, or shooting bit sticking up. It works really well. I can see this being of great benefit to OPR. Removing ambiguity. Interesting take not on base size but on model "class".

[@WarpstormChronicles]

I didn’t know there was a limit on casters. I think that’s a good idea but now they’ve changed it LOL. There are a lot of casters in my Alien Hives and it seems too strong IMO

[@hauntswargaming]

The hero/unit/unit copy limits are still in place so you have to work around that if you're using force validation. But yea, Alien Hives have enough caster options to make a pretty caster-heavy list.

[@DanielVisOneCade]

Volumetric line of sight comes from things like Infinity the Game (skirmish) or Warmachine both of which have them built into their core mechanics. This type of line of sight ASSUMES any questions or escalation i.e. arguments can be solved by completely removing the model from play then substituting it with a 'marker' of the correct volume clearing up any possible obfuscated elements. I.e. dynamic posing by the scuplters, funky basing or kit bashes etc. What so these games have in common is they are usually low model count and high stakes. So losing a model to a movement and or line of sight mistake might make or break the game for you. It's only relevant for skirmish or firefight honestly and play with heavy terrain, lots of height variations, verticality or like that competition level sort off play with OPR low barrier to entry and that is miniature agnostic.

[@hauntswargaming]

I believe star wars legion uses volumetric los as well, but no one I've played that with has been super strict about it. A lot of 40k refugees playing that :p

[@StoryOfPain]

They Said the gonna Stop the racial Terrain for now and Focus on more General Terrain pieces witch will be modular

[@blackmagick77]

The transport rule makes it so transports arent even worth it. They only have a toughness of 6 so they aremt hard to kill and if they get lilled your units are auto pinned and a dangerous terrain. So the favt you can fly up first turn snd disembark makes them prettycmuch all liability and no upside

[@telleryoutube4458]

look forward to your dark elf space raider review

[@notreallydavid]

'We've decided to make it expensive, sprawling and complex - we want to get as rich as Tom Kirby, so from now on we're going to get eleven-year-olds to max out their credit cards, and then hold them upside down and shake them so all their change falls out.' (Kidding! Call the pitbulls off.)

[@hauntswargaming]

Had me going in the first half ngl 😉

[@notreallydavid]

@@hauntswargaming When I was fourteen, Tom Kirby used to sell games at a wargames club in my part of Yorkshire. Mere decades later he was the boss of GW and on the Sunday Times Rich List. These days I live a short bus+tram ride from the GW money wells in Nottingham. Must drop by and lower a bucket so I can afford to leave the apartment I need to quit so they can fix the dying floor.

[@samdunn5846]

14:08 does that mean you cannot charge to disembark

[@hauntswargaming]

As far as I know you can