Stop Using Varnishes the Wrong Way - Learn Surface Finish Variation

[@larsf92]

Table top safe grimdark video would be cool

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Check out the video that I posted a few weeks ago. It's all about table top standard.

[@livanbard]

​@@GrimdarkCompendiumI think he means sturdy

[@andrewamann2821]

If you want to get tabletop safe, start with 2 coats of gloss to seal the paint job, and then begin to trace in with flat, matte, satin, and semi-gloss varnishes to differentiate. Trouble is, you almost have to work in very deliberate steps, because you can't really differentiate between them whilst wet. Oh, and make sure you've given your oils enough time to oxidize before sealing them...

[@sirbroken7714]

@@andrewamann2821 How much does enamels usually take to oxidize, this is an entirely new concept to me and it makes me so excited to discover new concepts of the grimdark way

[@andrewamann2821]

@@sirbroken7714 Enamels dry through an evaporative process, just like acrylics, so you just have to wait for the solvent, typically odorless mineral spirits, to flash off. Because they readily reactivate when you apply solvent, you can use them for applications where you might want to go back and adjust the placement of the washes, without layering up the colors, or where you might have need to transition the colors later in your process. Oil paints, despite being able to be thinned with the same stuff, and being able to be worked as a wash in similar ways, will not reactivate when given sufficient time to dry, owing to the oxidative process, but have an exceptionally long working time on the mini, ranging from several hours, to a few days, depending on how heavily the paint was applied. For shadows and pin washing, this means you can either blend them, or layer over them, depending on how long you wait between steps. Theoretically, you could also take advantage of this property to apply a gradient into the recesses of a piece by starting with an enamel, and then dropping an oil wash into it later, but this is neither a process I can vouch for, nor is is a thing I've tried to do, so take that idea as you will.

[@ew1258]

Wow. This could very well be the most important and informative video you have produced. Excellent excellent work.

[@nikot.9920]

This video has been quite insightful and I'll definitely be playing around more with surface variations when I paint my next batch of grimdark style minis. I'd also love a tutorial on gaming-safe grimdark models. Keep up the awesome work!

[@msterrainlab]

Awesome video!! Really excited to be a part of upcoming Cities of Sigmar series!!🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Keep being awesome! You're welcome

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Can't wait!

[@ELDENRANGOON]

Thank you. I had these questions , they were more than answered.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Glad it was helpful!

[@izzydarkhart4144]

I love the real world comparison and fully understanding textures and degradation in the real world goes a long way in the grimdark style. At my job we use these hug steal creates that are painted a glossy blue and when they are not in use, they are left outside all year long and they show a great example for rust, grime, degradation, oil, and how paint reacts to it, were rust is realistically located and were paint begins to fade and scrape off from repeated use and movement. I always look at the machines and industrial molds and robots we use at my job as well. They are always filthy, covered in grime and oil. I always take pictures of these things for reference and it has stepped up my grimdark style alot. There is no such thing as all matte or all satin or all gloss, all of my references photos show examples of all 3 coexisting on one surface sometimes. I never understood when model painters cry about how something is not all matte or satin or how models looks terrible when you mix them, when that is actually how things look in reality. Some pigments and textures just look better and real in different finishes. Ironically the grimdark style focuses on realism and realistic textures more than the more "fancy", "technical", "better"artist styles that the youtube miniature community coined yet they say grimdark is the low effort, beginner, and boring style.

[@zakhunt]

Beautiful. Where do you get the hair for the shoulder pelt? I've also seen your Skaven where you use real hairs. Where do those hairs come from? Thanks!

[@ernestgraves4401]

AMAZING ADVICES! MORE LIKE THIS PLS!

[@juliano8649]

This was an amazing and informative video, and YES, please make a video about minis optimized for gaming while maximizing grimdark effects.

[@gav-gf7cr]

Best video you've done in a while. I had almost given up 🙂

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Awesome. I'm glad you liked it.

[@CJ-uf6xl]

If you had said "Hi, this is Count Von Carstain, and I'm here to teach you about using varnishes" I would of believed you. Great video thanks 👍

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Hahahah. Appreciate it! Alessandro is more like a Mannfred though.

[@CJ-uf6xl]

@@GrimdarkCompendium Haha! 🙂

[@marcoherreras6536]

Very important video! I had been telling many box art devotees about this after carefully studying the Leper Cult videos, now they’ll see by themselves.

[@uro13]

Great video! Thank you.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Glad you liked it!

[@Ben-zv7gd]

I was thinking about this yesterday . Thank you !

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

You're welcome!

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Perfect! Hope this helps. Let us know if you have any more questions.

[@denniswijker7162]

I wish I could afford the video's on GD compendium, it's a style I really love, but really don't know how to do (especially the modelling/kitbashing/sculpting side is something I'm just not that good at). This particular model is just INSANE, with all the added details, the metal wire/barbed wire, the skull, the cloak and pelt. Just all top notch stuff!

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Thank you immensely for your appreciation! The Compendium is always there for you, when you want to give it a go, subscribe for a month, see how you like it, and then you can unsubscribe anytime. Tutorials are from beginner, to intermediate, to advanced. There are nearly 200 video tutorials on there. It's a gold mine for any miniature artist.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Join us, my friend! Subs are 10.99 well worth it. Ask ANY member.

[@shawnfairbanks9339]

Can confirm there is very useful information in there… still looking for the tips and tricks regarding how to add fur, or hair…

[@matphat]

I finally subbed after a year of thinking the same thing. It is absolutely worth it. Even just for a month. I don't normally sub anything, but I'll be damned if this wasn't one hundred percent worth it. Dark Ages Workshop is just so damn good.

[@denniswijker7162]

@@DarkAgesWorkshop I've been following you guys, (and you specifically) for a while now. I was a big fan of the Mordheim series, and entered in the competition a few months ago! (I was not in the top 10 or anything, but I did immensely enjoy building and painting my model :D ) Maybe I misunderstood how the site works? I thought you payed a price for each video, not a single sub price and then I could watch any video?! If that is the case, I will give it a go! (I'll wait till the Cities of Sigmar series drops :) ) And thank YOU immensely for your amazing work. I've always loved your video's, they have amazing style, you have a really intriguing and amazing way of looking at the hobby, and how to approach miniature painting/building that I really apreciate.

[@ryanwheeler8005]

id really like to see a video on what to do for gaming minis. I really love the style, and have learned a lot from your tutorials. But I often worry about handeling and transporting them. Great video!

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Awesome! Noted.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Gaming Stuff, just lacquer over the final. You sacrifice a lot but, if must do it... However, what I recommend for people that insist on a final varnish, is to instead paint the miniature up, varnish it, then finish with final weathering.

[@uro13]

I usually do a couple coats of gloss varnish, dull coat it then apply some touch up varnishes and gloss/satin effects I wanted to apply. Curious what other’s thoughts are on this.

[@rangda_prime]

Great video! One thing I'd like you to go into in the future is the use of gouache paints!

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

They are pretty cool! I tried them a couple of times. I would be inclined to do something a little more "artsy" and sketchy with them, compared to the realistic style I'm accustomed to.

[@larsf92]

I would instaly buy a Trench crusade paint guide!

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

That's almost guaranteed to happen!

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

We are looking forward to making them!

[@0rurin]

I'd like to point out that varnishing gloss over metallics removes the metallic effect. It looks more wet grey than steel, if that makes sense. However, edge highlighting silver with chrome works wonders.

[@Hostile_Design]

Yo, dude here who has worked on the new material system for Unreal Engine and Megascans and whatnot since the start. This is how I instinctively wanted to approach painting when I started but I got pretty baffled everyone looked for a dead matte finish in acrylics for some reason when it would be way cooler to actually capture the nature of a surface. I really dig the content of this channel so far. I'll put some super pedantic notes about material and reflection behaviour below, that most people who paint likely won't care about, but to some, perhaps useful information. - Something having a smooth surface/being glossy does not equal something being "highly reflective". A black glossy plastic may have a total reflection of less 6% of all incoming light, while, a sheet of copy paper have easily over 70%, making that paper far more reflective than chrome. In relative terms, chrome is a very non-reflective metal (about 57%), you are just used to seeing it with a very even and smooth surface finish. Something like aluminum (96%) or silver (99+%) is far more reflective. - Reflections are generally split into two terms: diffusion and specular. I won't babble too long about this, but you can think of diffusion as a evenly distributed reflection/color and the "specular" as an additional reflection layer on top of the diffuse reflection. Think the white sheen of a pane of glass laid on top of something perfectly matte and you get the idea. All non-metallic materials have this behaviour, more or less the same amount of sheen (specific exceptions apply), and more ore less the same tint, being none (white). What differentiates how clear, /broken up/shine or matte that reflection is, is the micro flaws on the surface, simply adding more random faces to redirect/scatter the light. - Metals only have that specular reflection, and no diffuse reflections at all. Whereas the non-conductive materials usually sit at about 2-6% of light being reflected in this manner, metals start at about 57% and can have a heavily tinted specular reflection. - Oxides are not metals, and stops exhibiting metallic behaviour. It's the conductivity that makes up the difference, light being electromagnetic waves, etc. Oxides do however sit in the higher range of specular reflectivity of dielectrics/non-metals, sharing that spot with gemstones, which commonly consist of metallic oxides. This ironically makes rust have a higher potential for shine than most other crap out there ;D.

[@michaellaporte4951]

I heard someone once say that a glossy finish on a miniature harms the believablity of it, as your light sources are never going to be in scale and so your reflections are going to look exaggerated and artificial. Don't know if you'd agree with that?

[@Hostile_Design]

​​​@@michaellaporte4951 Hm, I'd say no, sort of. The specular highlight size would first of all be determined by the size of the face/area facing you, which should stay true to scale, albeit maybe exaggerated if the models features are exaggerated. But light sources will of course generally not be in scale with the model, and in that sense it is a correct statement as the light will hit and reflect of more area of a miniature relative to a true-scale object. I personally would not worry about this too much, but there is merit to it. It does however make perfect sense to exaggerate things like "ambient occlusion", being the effect that tighter more obscured areas of an object gradually get darker. This happens due to light bouncing multiple times on the way and loosing some energy every time. This effect will be much stronger on a true-scale object VS a miniature, and this is what stuff like "zenithal highlighting" or a "slapchop" undercoat accomplishes.

[@korpurkorpur9655]

Really inspiring video. May I ask, do you know if water soluble oil paints works good for miniatures? It would be great for us that don’t have a well ventilated space.

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Thank you. I must say I have no experience with water soluble oils. I tried gouache, which are acrylics that behave like oils, but I want to experiment more with them before putting out a video or talking about stuff that I don't know

[@korpurkorpur9655]

@@DarkAgesWorkshop Thanks for answering. Got it, I’ll have to experiment with some then. By the way, where do you buy the fur and hair for your miniatures?

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

​@@korpurkorpur9655I got mine from a friend that goes fishing and likes to do fly tying. I'll have to get some new pieces though for the Cities of Sigmar series. A website or shop that sells fishing equipment would be the way to go. They are used to recreate certain insects or critters that visit around rivers throughout the year, so they can lure fish with a somewhat "accurate" bug I guess. But I think the big appeal is more about having fun crafting them!

[@Frodo-nk9zq]

Sexiest voice on the planet! **Swoon

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Haha.

[@_Percy19_]

An extremely helpful video. Grimdark Compendium fkn rules

[@SkInxitOut]

on the question of polyurethane or lacquor bases varnishes applied to models together with mineral spirit, where do water based varnishes like vallejo fall?

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

It's not that they "fail". It's that polyurethane is less protective compared to lacquer. But lacquer gets dissolved if you weather with enamels+mineral spirits afterwards. And if you do the weathering BEFORE the lacquer, it will even everything out, making the cool and diverse weathering look less nuanced and detailed.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

The thing about acrylic varnishes is that if you use them over anything oil or enamel based and try to come back over that varnish with more oils or enamels, then that layer of varnish has a really hard time not being destroyed by these new weathering or shading passes. There are times that I will do this on purpose to achieve certain texture effects, but it is generally not recommended.

[@SkInxitOut]

@@GrimdarkCompendium thank you, i have been struggling with the vallejo varnishes for a while so i guess that clears that up, i'll look into some alternatives for the future!

[@deusvult333]

Is varnishing a must for oils? because for normal acrylics, varnishing is not needed for tabletop. There have been tests done and the amount of damage from normal use to plastic models is close to none existent if you don't just throw them around.

[@connorjamieson7516]

Where is that barb wire from?!

[@shawnfairbanks9339]

I’d also like to know… it’s probably DIY but…

[@jo3kr111]

Where u get the pirate figure from?

[@eddystansberry6655]

Great video!

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Ty ty!

[@TheMichaellathrop]

So when you were asking for us to think about varnishes differently my mind settled on clear paint, so now I'm wondering if you can thin acrylic varnishes with inks or acrylic paints?

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Certainly can!

[@TheMichaellathrop]

@@GrimdarkCompendium what about pin washing a varnished area with a different texture or differently tinted varnish? For example imagine taking a sculpted plastic fur base coated brown and highlighted up to a tan, and hitting it with a coat of satin varnish then recess shading with a mat with a drop of black ink mixed in, and then dry-brushing with a gloss with a drop of yellow or red. To get both a color variation and and the texture variation you were talking about.

[@Tinweasel]

I've been using floor wax (technically acrylic floor finish) for almost two decades now in order to cut my various paints. Can you mix paints with varnish? Or varnish with paints? Or different mediums for different finishes? Or use varnishes after sealing with different varnishes, etc. Or inks in varnishes to cut surface tension, etc? Oh hell yes. GW Lahmian Medium is essentially expensive matte varnish/medium, essentially, that you could buy in bulk elsewhere. I've got 3-4 varnishes I use regularly and several that I use on most figures. So long as you're not actively trying to mix non-miscible varnishes like oil-, acrylic-, and solvent-based together simultaneously, feel free to get as creative as you want! 😊

[@patryk9354]

hey, when you do something to the model in 11:23, what is the tool that you use on it and for what reason?

[@echoes_of_vermin]

It's and old airbrush needle, used for literal scratching of the model. Gives the surface slight and realistic, well, scratches. Though I used an old dull exacto blade to similar effect for example.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

ty

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Any sharp tool. airbrush needles, airbrush cleaning tool, metal tooth pick, sculpting tools, dental tools, anything!

[@oakpuncherlast2672]

Where do I get those miniature

[@jorgenpinoy1724]

Thank you for this video 🤟🤟

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

No problem!! Hope you enjoy!

[@slzbuildz]

What miniatures did you use in this video?

[@electrictrojan6719]

I never realised how grimdark the average lawnmower could be.

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

😂😂😂 Yeah. I mean, that's a mundane item that encapsulates how weathering tells a story of how certain effects happen. Also, very rich and varied to explain the surface finish.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

You should see my skid steer.

[@rangda_prime]

I think one reason people think they have to have a protective coat of varnish is the fact that back when miniatures were mostly metal, you did need it to not instandtly lose paint from edges and points. And I think this mentality has survived into the modern age. Plastics don't chip the way metals do, and even paint over resin resin isn't half as fragile as over metal. Companies however want to sell more paint...

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Oh that is true. Metal miniatures are a pain to maintain. Even with a varnish (polyurethane) I'm not comfortable with them. They need a stronger protection, they chip so easily

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

True!

[@Streetsam]

Nice!

[@SantiThePectator]

Cool techniques and cool minis, where it comes from?

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

It's a kitbash done mostly with the Cities of Sigmar starter box, a headswap, and handcrafted additions.

[@SantiThePectator]

@@DarkAgesWorkshop great job sir!

[@christiangruening352]

Boi, time to learn to varnishing. Again.

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

BOOOOIIII

[@christiangruening352]

@@DarkAgesWorkshop Boi oh Boi. We Grimdark Bois

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Grim bro bois!

[@christiangruening352]

@@GrimdarkCompendium The Grim Bro Bois Sauna Compendium

[@sebbar3175]

It would be really cool to have a tutorial for figures that are used a lot at tournaments and events with a robust and resistant paint job in the Grimdark style

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Copy!

[@Ryuondo]

I rather like screwing around with varnishes, especially gloss varnishes. Making a model look like it is in the rain. Puddles without resin pours. All sorts of stuff.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Yeah! That's the point. That's a way of doing it.

[@AndrewDuncanNZ]

Hi Trovarion, I know that's you behind the accent! 🙂

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

He wishes!

[@goforitpainting]

Cool

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Thanks! Much appreciated

[@schrunchy04]

Iron wayfarer

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Oooh! Awesome that you noticed that! Yes, it was indeed inspired by the Iron Wayfarer.

[@matao0661]

Great video and knowledge drop but the voice and speed was to much for me. I get it and understand what you were going for but it wasn't for me as I was annoyed, lost interest easily and fought of wanting to go to sleep. Looks like a lot of other people liked it which is great I'm just not a fan.

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Ahah, I understand. I tried to be as casual as possible, but when I concentrate and try to explain something, I get involved and excited, I want to get the point explained clearly, and that's what comes out.

[@jostonpowell1346]

I love your videos but the overly dramatic Trannsylvania accent is just to much to take serious

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

Nah. Sexy voice right there.

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

Ahah, no it's not Transylvanian, I'm italian. This is the way I sound.

[@tam653m]

Can we go back to less sexy horror movie narration? Love the info, but this guy's voice is tough to take.

[@monophthalmus3254]

This used to be an awesome channel to learn about grimdark and be introduced to the whole idea. Now, every single useful video is moved to members only, and the rest are all marketing videos either for the inks or the website. Really sad what this has been reduced to, and you just lost my subscription.

[@GrimdarkCompendium]

These videos are all updated techniques that come from those older videos. I don't know what else you could want.

[@DarkAgesWorkshop]

I'm sorry you feel this way. I respectfully disagree though. This video has so much footage and information condensed in 20 minutes that can make other paid channels pale in comparison, and also never before seen stuff. Made to make people re-think their strategies, understand new techniques and have some questions answered, in the spirit of older videos. Maintaining a small business like this is hard, especially if you count we don't have any external sponsorship, or stuff like that. Everything we do is coherent with the hobby and when we advertise, it's stuff that we make ourselves. The website is clean, immersive and not ridden with dozens of spammy ads at every corner. I don't think there's something else quite like this, out there.