Could A Single F-15E Have Stopped The 1941 WWII Pearl Harbor Attack? (Naval Battle 46b) | DCS

We explore the claim that a single modern F-15 Strike Eagle could have destroyed the Imperial Japanese Fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. We use DCS to run a full simulation. Things get rather, tense...
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0:00 Tog's Intro
3:24 Grim Reapers Briefing
4:57 Grim Reapers Attempt With 1 F-15E
17:06 Grim Reapers Attempt With 6 F-15E's
17:51 Grim Reapers Re-Attempt With 6 F-15E's
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[@dr.ryttmastarecctm6595]

Next Sim, please send a flight of 10 B-52s to carpet bomb the fleet!

[@grimreapers]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nqfSin94lsuDm7s

[@jefe_golf]

@@grimreapers but did you Rapid Dragon it? Because we all know how much you loved doing 4 of those in a row. Lol

[@ttpechon2535]

If it sounds interesting or involves big booms, GRs done it.

[@dr.ryttmastarecctm6595]

@@grimreapers I remember the Bone's carpet bombing and the ineffectualness of those plus the tactical nuke. I think the nuke needed to be air-burst over the carrier group. But, really, I had hoped for a Vietnam war-type B-52 carpet bombing strike. Watching the B-52s at work from a Fire Base was...cool!

[@nathanielcowan3971]

I wanna see an AC-130 rain down terror and dismay on the entire fleet at 28,000 feet in the day or at 7,000 feet at night. Night will be preferred because the zeros didn't even have radar on board and it's a more realistic range for that howitzer to hit each of those targets without needing to stay put past it's bed time.

[@lieutenantkettch]

What the in-game AI can't simulate is the sheer awe and terror a pilot from 1941 would feel at seeing what looks like a spaceship from an afternoon sci-fi serial, moving at impossible speed, attacking your fleet from what to you is an impossible distance. Plus it's carrying the markings of your enemy.

[@fix0the0spade]

I don't know which would be more terrifying in 1941, the F-15 itself, or each bomb following the fleet as they made evasive maneuvers.

[@ryano.5149]

And of course, you have the added horror of watching all 5 of your carriers go up in flames within minutes, so now you have no choice to put your plane in the drink whether you choose to attempt to intercept the alien craft or not...

[@ascoop22]

The Japanese pilot would have called that a foo fighter. A phoo fighter.

[@fogg1966]

You've never seen the documentary The Final Countdown on this subject

[@GAHoosier]

@@fogg1966 "documentary" - beautiful.

[@oldrabidus2230]

Even more scary is the F15 was flying 30 years post WWII and here we are 50 years since the Eagle first flew…

[@epi2045]

Great observation. Amazing the progress from WW2 and how longstanding the F15 has been.

[@user-co8uy5rb2s]

Scary??

[@ConstantineJoseph]

F15E was only available in 1986 as an operational strike fighter. F15A was 30 years after the beginning of WW2 and wasn’t a strike fighter but an air to air superiority fighter. So it’s about 44-45 years after WW2 that you get the F15E multi role

[@radicalxg8282]

The cold war arms race was insane

[@user-co8uy5rb2s]

@@radicalxg8282 civilians are more insane now.

[@peasoup2980]

Dropping flares against bullets. Brilliant.

[@Laerei]

On one hand it's distracting. On the other it's good practice to keep muscle memory for when going up against missiles later.

[@peasoup2980]

@@Laerei on one hand. You’re an idiot. They’re not pressurized. Fly above them. End of story. Loser

[@Jeffcatbuckeye]

@@Laereimissiles from what?

[@Laerei]

@@Jeffcatbuckeye Fighter jets.

[@Brianbri-nq3cc]

RIGHT😂😂 Makes no sense at all by this being a game!😂😂😂

[@nocursewm2938]

When he said “we got hit.” I heard the line from “The Final Countdown” “Why are we playing with these guys?”. I love that movie.

[@Slaphappy1975]

I love that movie too. As a kid I was always slightly annoyed that they didn't absolutely destroy the Japanese fleet before getting sucked back to modern day lol I guess budgetary constraints and no way to show it without modern CG.

[@michaelwallace7972]

​@@Slaphappy1975 it's about the butterfly effect. They made the correct choice

[@jamesadams893]

It would be the classic grandfather paradox scenario

[@Slaphappy1975]

@@michaelwallace7972 as a kid i just wanted to see a battle lol

[@mathew5892]

Oh man, that movie was awesome, and just the thought of a Nimitz Class Carrier back in 1941, damn bro, what a thought

[@williampaylorjr9481]

There's two scenarios to consider here. If the F-15 would have discovered the Japanese carriers prior to them launching their aircraft it could have easily sank all of them using precision guided munitions. In air to air combat the F-15 would have run out of ordinance well before it ran out of targets.

[@williampaylorjr9481]

@@chrisschack9716 Several years ago one of the documentary channels had a "what if?" series where they tested the outcomes of historical events. One was about the attack on Pearl Harbor. They ran 1000 computer scenarios and then ran a series of war games with military historians, retired naval commanders and various other experts. The surprising part is that proportionately speaking the results were closely aligned. Because of the number of attacking aircraft and the very short time they would have had to prepare the outcome of December 7, 1941 would have probably been the same even if they had prior warning. At the end of 1941 the use and affectiveness of naval airpower was still in its infancy so most warships at that time didn't carry much more anti aircraft than was needed to shoot down an enemy spotter plane. Until the development of the proximity fuze U.S. anti aircraft fire wasn't particularly effective anyway. The common belief that if the aircraft based at Pearl and the surrounding airfields could have been launched they could have made a difference. This is wishful thinking. The Japanese fighter cover was the A6M also known as the Zero easily outperformed the P-40 Warhawk and the outdated F-2 Buffalo. The seasoned Japanese pilots would have quickly shot down our inexperienced pilots.

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

@@williampaylorjr9481 The buffalo wasn't a very capable aircraft, but it would out turn a zero without breaking a sweat. A lot of people regard them as less than a P40, but if you tangled up with a zero your chances of being successful were higher with the buffalo.

[@williampaylorjr9481]

@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper I didn't know that about the Buffalo. I thought that most of them had been relegated to finish their days as naval trainers by that time. With ruggedness being about the only thing going for it the P40 wouldn't have been able to do much more than delay the inevitable. The precision planning, weapons development, and training is what ultimately brought the U.S. Pacific fleet to it's knees. Is it just my imagination or did the Buffalo resemble the illigitament child of the GeeBee air racer and Howard Hughes H-1 racer? 🤔 Hmmmm

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

@@williampaylorjr9481 Back when it was being developed, those aircraft basically were the gold standard in aircraft performance, so it makes sense that the designers took their cues from those racers. Also note that the Corsair looks strikingly similar to the H1, just with bent wings more or less. The real downfall of the F2 was the Navy requirements for additional armor and gear for carrier ops. Pappy Boyington loved flying them pre-Navy configuration, and the Finns had a fantastic kill ratio with them. After they were weighed down with stuff, they lost a good bit of their agility, but could still turn tighter than a Zero. It brings up the whole debate of what's a better doctrine...no armor and weight saving like the Japanese chose, or lots of armor and add more power to make up for it like the US did. Ultimately it was their undoing, but imagine what kind of fighters the US could've made if they were all put on a massive weight loss plan.

[@streamofconsciousness5826]

@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper The Buffalo has the highest K/D ratio of all fighters ever. 32/1 Active in lots of theaters at a time when ther was some parity other than the Zeros 109 and Spit's The Hellcat is 19/1 and it shot down 75% of the entire Navy's Total in WW2. One of the American Jets is 100/0 but besides that the Buffalo is the leader of the pack

[@doublebackagain4311]

To the Japanese fleet, it would have seemed an alien craft appeared, destroyed their carriers, and flew away straight up into the sky -

[@whirlwindeddie2124]

Therefore they nicknamed it “Tengu”

[@LatitudeSky]

And that would have been the right tactic: hit the carrier and then climb away far beyond the range of the Zeros. Move to away at speed to another target, descend and hit it before the defenders can even react. Repeat. The Zeroes can get to 20,000ft but they cannot possibly keep up with an F15 that can be at 20,000ft in one spot and then move away. It would be hopeless for the defenders. Done at night, there would not even be a fight. No defense. And if the F15 had a WMD, the whole fleet is done. Whatever survives would be absolutely terrified and have no ability to fight.

[@MrBenjamin334]

@@LatitudeSkyI was laughing at them doing high G flat turns. Get vertical. The Zero can’t follow in climb or dive.

[@MisterMikhail]

And it was only 34 years between Pearl Harbor and when the F-15 entered service.

[@mozzaplaysgames7897]

@@MisterMikhail Crazy to think that is even possible... 34 years

[@user-kn6sz8ji1j]

In reality, once the protective nose cone was compromised, your radar would fail from the brute force of air pressure.

[@electricheisenberg5723]

In reality, the zeros wouldn’t know he was there, and would turn tail if they did.

[@gelmir7322]

I wouldn't be sure that the Japanese pilots would turn tail. considering they will have nowhere to land to those planes if their carriers all sunk. Also Japanese pilots were known for their heroics and self-sacrificing ethics.

[@electricheisenberg5723]

@@gelmir7322 yeah but there is clearly nothing they could do. They would probably just try to bail and land near their allied ships to be recovered.

[@dwpalme2670]

Bullshit. Zero pilots never ran. Wasn't in their nature @@electricheisenberg5723

[@dwpalme2670]

@@BigGameTracker His comment was moronic.

[@StephensCustomModels]

Top work, Gents. Cap, you guys put so much work into these scenarios, and it really shows!

[@pahtar7189]

The F-15 was designed with the philosophy "Not a pound for air-to-ground." Only decades later did the Air Force admit that with a few changes it would make a top notch medium bomber, and that's what they did with the F-15E. More recently they've developed the F-15EX to turn it into a "bomb truck" or "missile truck" able to rain destruction on air and land.

[@rvail136]

The plan for the F15EX is to assign 3-7 to either an F22 or F35 as target designation aircraft, with the F15s firing long range missiles or glide bombs onto targets designated by the stealth fighters. That would be a devastating combination

[@candle_eatist]

@@rvail136 Fascinating stuff, they've gone and separated the sensors and the missile truck, having the undetected fighters be the eyes for the missile truck, like a forward observer.

[@aluisious]

If the air force really wanted to get the job done in as ugly and utilitarian a way possible, they'd launch cruise missiles from a transport aircraft. The USA could replace a huge portion of the military pomp and circumstance weapon systems with air, sea (cargo ship), and ground launched (some big truck, who cares) cruise missiles. Let's say they're a million each now, and made in truely high volume, they could come down to a half milllion. You could buy a million cruise missiles for $500B. Not really a big deal over several years of the budget. Who would go to war against a million cruise missiles?

[@bradford_shaun_murray]

12:34 👀 wtf ?

[@tonyprice5344]

It speaks volumes about the timeless capabilities of the F-15 that it can be updated to such a degree and remain highly relevant.

[@MGAFFY]

Another thing you could have tried to do was dive and drag them to lower altitudes so they had to take their time to climb again.

[@notfeedynotlazy]

Bonus points if you blast "I am so happy to be finally back at home" over the radio as you do so. (You may know that as "the Trololo song").

[@Craig52-zq1bt]

If you damage the carriers, ALL the japanese planes would then become kamikaze planes.

[@davidbakerscuba]

They didn’t use kamikaze tactics early in the war. They started doing that towards the end, out of desperation and inability to train new young pilots well enough for combat and successful bombing runs.

[@terryfolsom8713]

@@davidbakerscuba As an official tactic, I agree. However, with the (Nippon) philosophy that it always better to die for the Emperor than to die for nothing.... I think many, even most, would have used their planes as missiles after using their combat loads. Surrender remained an option few took, even at the end, until instructed by Hirohito. The reason for Atomic use and keeping Hirohito in power.

[@the1HLT]

The brief historical overview of the F-15 made this video so much better!

[@PilotPhotog]

Thank you Cap and the Reapers! Always a pleasure to work with you and the team, I need to go start reading F-15E checklists and do some familiarization in the Strike Eagle - cheers!

[@grimreapers]

Pleasure Togington! x

[@9HighFlyer9]

I knew I recognized that voice

[@PilotPhotog]

@@9HighFlyer9 now you know!

[@Ken_Koonz]

​@@grimreapers Togington best ogington?

[@dexlab7539]

GR + PilotPhotog = two of my fav channels…well done boys!!

[@johnpaulvalentin5819]

Very reminiscent of The Final Countdown (1980) where a supercarrier travels back in time to the Pearl Harbor attack. Although in the movie they never touched the Japanese fleet.

[@youtube-ventura]

As a kid when I watched this, I was disappointed as I really wanted to see those f14s make mincemeat out of the japanese fleet.

[@ozzy7763]

Absolutely awesome movie. Some of the best footage of the F 14 ever filmed !

[@livenotonevil8279]

I was so upset about the storm returning

[@ozzy7763]

@@livenotonevil8279 yeah me too. I was wanting to see those A7s and 6s unleash hell on the imperial fleet ! Lol

[@purplehz97]

Absolutely love that movie!

[@Chrisosaurusrex]

Amazing video, never played a flight sim, but this managed to be engaging and tense.

[@EagleFighterJet]

Thank you for putting this all togethe

[@hydronpowers9014]

That intro sounds like a commercial for Americans who wants to have thier own Amazon delivered F-15Es for home defense 😂

[@phil.willoughby]

And it worked, where do I place my order

[@Leon-nn3lt]

Most peaceful american

[@mrjuhbenny]

is that a thing? im in.

[@castlebravocrypto1615]

Home defense is no laughing matter, sir 😉

[@JimOrr_OK]

My only question is will it be available on sale during the upcoming Amazon Prime Days

[@chrishawkinson8846]

One correction. The Japanese force (KIDO BUTAI) was not split into multiple task forces. All 6 carriers (Carrier Divisions 1, 2, and 5) and their supporting ships were in a single formation. That is what gave KIDO BUTAI the ability to mass, what was for 1941, an unprecedented number of aircraft in a single group. What was split was the two waves of aircraft, but that was a function of time between each wave, not a split force.

[@johnroscoe2406]

ok weeb.

[@fkboyStalin]

nah Japan during ww2 is fascinating for the simple fact how did you even manage to make this dumpster fire semi successful before attacking the biggest superpower on the planet, I mean seriously just the state of Pennsylvania produced more steel for planes ships and tanks than all 3 major axis nations and that record starts from when we join, pearl harbor, to the end of the war, they were all fighting well before then and producing, they did not stand a chance and it's funny sometimes just how bad of a setup they had thinking it would beat us.@@johnroscoe2406

[@robotba89]

This one is so awesome! Love your content!

[@fredg.sanford634]

I saw the movie "Final Countdown" in the early '80s, which was a great time travel flick. This simulation made up for what they didn't show in the movie.

[@minthouse6338]

Don't forget those were real planes - none of the CGI crap in Top Gun Maverick.

[@gld1010]

@@minthouse6338 Actually, Maverick had real aircraft except of course the Grumman F-14s and Sukhoi Su-57s. That was one of their claims for Maverick, actually using real F/A-18s for most of the movie.

[@jamesmaddison4546]

My father flew f15s for 8 years after his unit transferred to them out of the f4, which he flew in towards the end of Vietnam sometimes doing weasel missions. They were honestly hesitant about all the new tech and didn't think it would work as well as claimed, but one by one after their first flight in it they were immediately converted 😂

[@ultimategotea]

Same stories we’ve heard about F-15 pilots switching to F-35, there truly is no comparison to superior technology

[@ianjones9498]

@@ultimategotea f 35 2hr mission then 2 days in shop

[@totalnerd5674]

@@ianjones9498 Yeah well for an Eagle that'd be 3 days, and a Phantom it would be 4.

[@mikkuga1]

​@@totalnerd5674not true.

[@pgrant7688]

@@ultimategotea the EX is a different animal than say an F-15A or even the Strike Eagle. Kind of like comparing the first F16 and the Block 70/72 jets. As glorious as those machines are, their combined tactics are what separate them from those near peer competitors. Then there’s the F-22.

[@trig1900]

When I first saw an F-15C I badly wanted to see them become an element of my country's air force. In the mid 1970's I was an air traffic controller at RAAF Base Amberley when the US was flying one around the air force bases in Australia in a demonstration sales pitch. The Australian government was looking to replace the ageing Dassault Mirage III fighters [which they did with the F/A-18 fighter jets]. McDonnell Douglas were trying to sell their F-15s and had it demonstrate it's capabilities... WOW! What it did was incredible, from a slow almost stall down the length of the runway [relying almost only on the pure power of it's engines with minimal lift to keep it in the air] to having the pilot pull it's stick back and go vertical. I thought for sure that it would crash back into the ground but then the engines went to full power and it just went vertical like a rocket. It was one of the most impressive displays of raw powered capability I've ever seen.

[@jocogi8]

I've never understood why we went with Hornets which were designed for carriers instead of these things. We haven't had carriers for decades.

[@trig1900]

@@jocogi8 It might be that the armed services seem to go for getting the most 'bang for their buck'. While we may not currently have carriers of our own, this does not mean that we won't in the future, or that we wouldn't exercise with strategic allies who do. Also, there is the cost consideration. We could purchase more of the F/A-18 A's than we could the Eagle, and the maintenance and upkeep was always going to be concomitantly cheaper also. At least, that's my guess and what I'd heard at the time. Which makes sense for any government looking to purchase such an expensive asset. Also, the F-15 was a comparatively new aircraft and was yet to get any 'runs on the board'. History has since shown that it might have been an equally valuable choice, but I suspect we would have still gone with the equally versatile [and cheaper!] option of the Hornets anyway.

[@Rusty_Gold85]

Do you think they went with F-18 for Supply and Logistical problem solving choices crossed with fuel load /distance/payload ratios ?

[@trig1900]

@@Rusty_Gold85 It would seem so... I'm assuming as I was not privy to the decision-making surrounding it's choice. AND, it has certainly proved to be a good choice given it's record and the follow-on ease of acquiring and training on the Super Hornets FA/18-Fs. I just loved the look of the F-15 and the F-111Cs based at Amberley at the time.

[@LOLHAMMER45678]

​@@trig1900RAAF didn't get F-15 for two reasons: one, it was a pure fighter- so you'd have to buy something else to do attack work on top of it- and two, it was too expensive for almost any country to buy. If you look at foreign Eagle operators back in the day- it was either oil money (Saudi Arabia), a massive economy (Japan), or extreme concentration on the military (Israel). Hornet let the RAAF buy one cheaper bird to do every mission, even if it wasn't as good in BVR as F-15.

[@ChristopheJOUAN-qd3xu]

Strong 'The Final Countdown' vibes here! Thank you very much for this video! 😃👍

[@grigryphon]

Legendary! All skulls on! Great sim, boys! That was tense!😅

[@CopperKast]

I was a f-15E crew chief before I ended my enlistment, that is the general mechanic and marshaler for those who don’t know, the footage at the beginning was a good bit of nostalgia, especially seeing jets from my old squadron.

[@baymax6894]

Yeah sure

[@HelloDonkey9]

@@baymax6894jealous much?

[@AviationEnthusiast.]

What fighter squadron were you in?

[@CopperKast]

@@AviationEnthusiast. 389th fighter squadron out of Mountain Home Idaho.

[@CopperKast]

@@baymax6894 frankly, I couldn't care less if you believe me or not, feel free to spread your grief and self loathing wherever you want but do at least try harder next time.

[@MMPCTV]

You used mostly 2D tactics. You can climb and descend faster than the Zeros. If too many get airborne, drop to dive to 7500, take out a carrier and move out of range. Depending on the reaction of the Zero's, climb to 20 and turn in for another run. Also, leave more time between drops to lure fighters away from your drop point to increase odds you won't be engaged. For the two minute dog fight, you should have climbed to 25 and singled out and picked off stragglers.

[@LMYS5697]

I was thinking this myself, boom and zoom under FL100 pulling the Zeke's down towards that altitude before climbing to FL250. Of course five of these F15s could also come kitted with Harpoons and sink the fleet before they are even seen

[@RPSchonherr]

Me too, I was yelling at him to dive to 2k draw the zeroes down then shoot back to 20k . It'd take the zeroes another 10 min to get back to 20k.

[@karlhans6678]

Can the F-15 long range missiles lock on to zeroes?

[@RPSchonherr]

@@karlhans6678 I would think so. Those Mitsubishi engines make a lot of heat.

[@LMYS5697]

@@karlhans6678 Fox 1s 2s and 3s should have no issue. Beyond that, a zero has no rwr, so it can't detect radar lock or attempt a notch. It's purely subsonic and has a laughable rate of climb. It has no flares or chaff. It was never intended to counter a threat that didn't exist until long after it had been outmoded. Put simply a zero can't beat a modern AAM. The pilot wouldn't even know the missile had been launched, even if he wanted to take evasive is doubtful he would be able to given the speed of the missile, and the speed of his aircraft, his inability to determine when the missile was fired, his lack of missile defense systems. Even a modern ace with all the benefits of knowing exactly how the missile works probably couldn't evade one in a zero. It wouldn't even be a turkey shoot, turkey are smart and have color vision. It wouldn't be shooting fish in a barrel, speed of light through water. It would be taking candy from a comatose baby. ***EDIT*** The SINGULAR advantage the zero has is it's comparatively shit rate of climb. The missile is likely to meet it at low altitude, where the atmosphere is far thicker, and the missile would burn a lot of energy off punching through the air. Still don't think the zero has a chance in hell.

[@flex_007]

Wow this vid was amazing 👍

[@jimallen8238]

It's interesting that when all six F-15's were in the air, there was so much confusion over who was targeting which carrier - and this was casual fun. Imagine how much room for error there is in a stressful real-life situation.

[@stephenlozano2816]

Finally “The Final Countdown” ending we all wanted 👍🏼

[@gopherchucksgamingnstuff2263]

I searched the comments to see if anyone knew that movie.

[@crashtestdummy9985]

Really digging the idea of having a brief historical block at the beginning to refresh us on the aircraft in question like this. People may not still know the significance of how the F-15E changed the role of the F-15's mission in air combat, so having a quick rundown of what the F-15E is and has been helps bring the viewers up to speed on why this scenario is being done. Well done, Reapers. Well done.

[@BlooFlame]

I love this content. You have a sub.

[@chrispyle2942]

Finally, I can answer the question I am always asked. What would you do if you were transported back in time and also had an f-15??

[@proudbirther1998]

Roosevelt and the Military industialist complex would have stopped you. They wanted the war to happen. You are thinking like a Patriot. But your govt has been full of Traitors

[@alu.minium521]

How did the Japanese fleet detect you 30 miles out? No radar, never seen a jet before, All 6 carriers should have been hit without any warning or realization of what just happened.

[@BK-ju6rb]

and at 0400 in the dark. when all the aircraft were being loaded on deck.

[@DreadX10]

The Grim Reapers' reputation precedes them. That's how the IJN knew something was coming for them.

[@crimfan]

They stacked the deck in favor of the Japanese.

[@operationscomputer1478]

smoke on the horizon, unless the carrier was nuclear powered

[@chuckh4077]

He warned them he was coming in harsh Japanese on the radio.

[@v3c7r0n]

"Wombat, what happened?" - Cap "The defense department regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid" - Wombat, probably

[@grimreapers]

lol

[@liamoneal7643]

it is true i was in the back lmao

[@chrissmith3668]

Great balllllls of fire

[@stevenleach9522]

Fun video 😅! I loved it ❤️!

[@DevilsAvacado69]

you guys absolutely opened up a new play field here using the engine to illustrate documentaries

[@grumpus5248]

Made me almost go dig up the old MicroProse F-15 game...gods, that was fun and intense back in the day...

[@tonyh8166]

Once the zeroes are up to 20k feet why not dive to like 3k. A lot fewer zeroes down there, and if they follow you down then you can climb back up to 20k a lot faster than they can and have a nice clear attack run or two before they get back up to you.

[@tangoprime]

Even in an F-15, diving into the AA threat envelope of that carrier group, especially with it that concentrated (as they mentioned having them all clustered instead of dispersed over many miles as would've been realistic) would've been a meat grinder.

[@dancrane3807]

Or just make the last 2 passes at angels 10. You get there faster than they do, and can just extend at speed between passes.

[@m_6866]

@@tangoprime AA in the early days of WW2 were absolute dog shit (EVERY country/side). Looking at statistics of pre-radar (proxy fuse or guidance) AA, they would not of been able to hit an F-15 just based off of speed alone. Before radar guidance or radar proximity fuses, AA would make 'kill-boxes" that would blanket an area of sky and hope to hit something in the formation. Only once radar made its way into every shot munition (proximity fuses) did AA really start being effective at all for single plane targeting.

[@bradford_shaun_murray]

12:34 wtf?!

[@Blox117]

Lol the f15 would be shredded going that low

[@jeddyhi]

Reminds me of a 1980 movie called 'The Final Countdown' starring Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen. The USS Nimitz encounters an electrical storm vortex at sea and gets transported back in time to 1941 Pearl Harbor.

[@jetuber]

I always thought that that movie's ending was disappointing and felt like a cheat, because they battle we hoped for never occurred.

[@timeshark8727]

Imagine being on one of those carriers as a plane you have never seen the like of before, one your planes can barely track, let alone successfully engage, starts casually taking out ship after ship with weapons stronger than anything you've ever seen.

[@ashleyzinyk399]

What's the point of using the F-15's countermeasures? The Zero doesn't have radar or heat-seeking missiles.

[@SuppressedOfficial]

No idea, but I guess it's probably a train-like-you-fight thing. No point trying to fight a habit engrained to defend against peer opponents.

[@jonnycomfort9271]

@@SuppressedOfficial But thats the point--aircrews don't train to drop flares unless they are faced with an IR threat. No threat means no flares deployed.

[@SuppressedOfficial]

These guys are playing a video game, son. Any similarities between what they have taught themselves to do and what real pilots are trained to do are probably coincidental. You might as well be telling guys in Counterstrike not to constantly switch to the knife.

[@jonnycomfort9271]

@@SuppressedOfficial lol so you change the script when your idea doesn't measure up to the facts? You are the one who suggested a "train like you fight" mentality. Also, even to video game players, you only use IR countermeasures when facing an IR threat. You DO realize that "Video game players" can also use other things, like chaff, to decoy radar guided threats? Why didnt he punch out chaff? Even video game players don't typically "train" to counter a threat that's not actually happening at the moment.

[@SuppressedOfficial]

@@jonnycomfort9271 Yes. They are "training" for a video game. That's not the same as "training" for the real thing, and it may not follow the same logic. You can go be daft somewhere else; no one here gives a fuck.

[@rayfeltz8477]

This reminds me of that one movie the Philadelphia experiment. Where a Nimitz class aircraft carrier goes back in time to Pearl Harbor.

[@orpiv]

As a kie growing up in the 70s being intrigued by anything WWII...I remember watching and fascinated by a movie on this same premise where the USS Nimitz goes through a worm hole back to just before December 7 1941.. The Final Countdown was the name of the movie

[@raymondshaw5685]

why dont you re-run the scenario at night, the F-15E's ideal theatre, no zero's to worry about then lol. Be cool to see too

[@Snipergoat1]

One point to note though. While the F-15 has never lost in air to air combat there have been two lost in combat. Both of them where F-15E lost to ground fire.

[@peterpayne2219]

This is hella interesting, wow.

[@XiahouJoe]

Triggers memories of Final Countdown. The movie that introduced me as a child to the potential to alternate histories.

[@krismurphy7711]

Must have been an incredible sight to see the three carriers hit during the Battle of Midway.

[@willwozniak2826]

4 carriers the IJN had.

[@justinmurphy2227]

Noice! A fellow Murphonian and potato lover!

[@ivorharden]

Not as good as the armoured flight deck RN carriers

[@krismurphy7711]

@@ivorharden absolutely. US Essex Class has the weakness of an unarmored flight deck.... Franklin and Bunker Hill proved that. Japanese Carriers at Midway .....3....were hit and went up in flames at the same time. In the movies...when they show all three burning....it is awesome...and in real life, for Americans, it must have been sweet revenge for Pearl Harbor.

[@thomasaltizer1949]

4 ya dumass

[@emanuellandeholm5657]

Really impressed that Cap managed to do it on himself. Those AM6 piston engines had superchargers, but the oxygen must've been quite precious for them up there!

[@user-fq4ny4mo1l]

LMFAO: 'we regret to inform you that our pilot was stupid'. That is hilarious!

[@Geilomeilo2]

That inro sounds like something straight from interdimensional cable

[@richardsanchez5444]

I think there's a Simpsons episode where something similar to this happens. New aircraft tries to intercept old time fighter planes, and they zoom right past them not able to do anything. This is actually not as easy as I thought. I get it it's a modern airplane but the sheer amount of enemy planes makes it difficult to use modern day weapons systems. Goes to show how badass the WW2 pilots were to fly through flak and dive bomb and hit the target without any guidance systems to speak of.

[@tomhannigan2234]

Similar to the first helicopter vs fighter jet dog fights. The helicopters performed better than expected.

[@boromirofmiddleearth557]

good point!

[@realulli]

Ward Carrol made a video about the filming of "The Final Countdown". They had several near-crashes because of the F-14s trying to fly slow enough to interact with the Zeros and look good in the movie... kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKuwmn6gr6uVhck

[@RettMikhal]

You're referring to the F-15s attempting to intercept the Wright Flyer. "Target too slow to intercept. Suggest we get out and walk."

[@Airblazer]

it was the sideshow Bob episode where he was flying the kitty hawk I think it was and their jets were too fast :) So they got outside and walked just behind it with guns :)kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHWaaKGvpKqsq8k

[@one1charlie643]

when zero's reach altitude, you should just drop to the deck let them come down to engage. then just power climb back up for your next bombing run, it will be over before they can climb back up.

[@marcofolosaint6916]

Bravo!

[@jamesthomas4295]

Nobody talks about their brave actions in a simulation. Just saying.

[@wisconsinfirenerd]

Brings back fond memories of Harry Turtledove's WORLDWAR novels, in which aliens with a roughly 21st century level of tech try to invade our planet in the middle of WW2

[@philiprice7875]

love those books the mix of real historical people and fictional well combined one of the "race" pilots realising he just gave Japanese scientist clue about nuclear bombs wishing for a nuke to fall on Hiroshima but what i understand and gamers cant realise is that this is FICTION

[@tj10777]

Those have been on my reading list for years now. I’ll have to give ‘‘em a read

[@bradford_shaun_murray]

14:44

[@Blox117]

that makes no sense, how could aliens travel to earth with our own tech? we cant even land on mars yet

[@philiprice7875]

@@Blox117 they used slower then light and cryo suspension for journey and only brought the tech advanced enough to defeat the level of humans from 12th century as that is what the probes discovered

[@pahtar7189]

When you sink a carrier (or other ship with helicopters), your scoreboard should also count all the aircraft onboard as lost.

[@jh2519]

And once you get all the carriers, you’ve essentially killed all of their planes in the sky as well.

[@1johnnygunn]

​@jh2519 exactly, let them run out of fuel. Lol

[@michaelwong9411]

GIMLI: "That still only counts as one!"

[@pahtar7189]

@@jh2519: Right, unless they're in range of a landing strip.

[@oahuhawaii2141]

@pahtar7189: If they land in Hawaii, they'll be captured and be out of action.

[@matttackel997]

One factor not taken to count here is that the entire fleet would have turned around and headed home if they got a glimpse of a single F-15 on that day.

[@JeffBurchfield]

What sim are you using?

[@mbeazy6637]

Super entertaining video! Just curious why you were releasing chaffs to counter the zero bullets?

[@dx1450]

Yeah, releasing flares would do nothing.

[@jimmyculp8756]

@@dx1450 It would most definitely confuse the Japanese pilots?

[@joshduke134]

@@dx1450 except help more of them gain a tally

[@bradford_shaun_murray]

13:26 woah

[@galahad692000]

Because it looked cool

[@Shacon24]

Imagine being a Japanese soldier.. There just appears a super fast and loud alien-looking aircraft out of nowhere, effortlessly destroys ALL of you carriers and then just casually proceeds to fly so high up into the sky, it appears like going into space. They would literally think it´s an alien craft xD Amazing that *just 36 years* are between pearl harbor and the first launch of the F-15 E. Humanity is crazy.

[@cmdrbigity6914]

When the tpod is moving about, is that MC desync?

[@matthiasderoo9133]

To lose the zero's temporarily you could have dived and used your afterburners to gain altitude very quickly and have some free time at altitude

[@jemiebridges3197]

yes, but this wasn't discovered until a great time after Pearl Harbor.

[@clintley2901]

​@@jemiebridges3197😂

[@clintley2901]

​@@jemiebridges3197 the AVG (flying tigers) in China knew about it before Pearl Harbor.

[@Ballsyone]

There was a movie back in 1979 I believe called The Final Countdown that put an F-14 against 2 Japanese Zeros who were likely scout aircraft. I'm sure most here know about it. It was AWESOME!!!

[@user-kn6sz8ji1j]

If you do a KZbin search the actual Navy F-14 aircrews who were tasked with flying the movie scenarios are interviewed in a video.

[@ZachAttackIsBack]

The movie was boring. If you are going with that premise, then have the modern aircraft carrier actually engage the Japanese fleet.

[@Ballsyone]

@@ZachAttackIsBack So boring that you had to comment.

[@I7435IC]

I still own that Movie. 😉

[@jazzdub4958]

1980

[@barsonald9539]

If we take it as an example; It took 35 Torpedo hits and 19 air dropped bombs (250kg and 500 kg) just to sink Japanese Battleship Yamato. So probably, 1 F-15 would not be enough to stop the fleet that carried out Pearl Harbour attack.

[@PaidMeToWrite]

For those too young to know, there is a 1980 Movie called The Final Countdown. It shows a "modern" U.S. fleet vs the Pearl Harbour Attack Force. It's a good movie for its time and probably the most realistic in terms of actual Naval capabilities and operating procedures.

[@heathb4319]

So if most of the planes took off from the carriers and now have no place to land back on them...I guess they will "land" eventually near Pearl Harbor.

[@SonsOfLorgar]

And immediately forced to suicide or end up as PoWs

[@williampaylorjr9481]

I think by the time they realized their carriers were sunk they wouldn't have enough fuel to make it back to Pearl Harbor. Then one by one they would have to ditch in the sea drawing the unwanted attention of hideous creatures like giant squid, Rosie O'Donnell and Hillary Clinton and then be eaten, annoyed or lied to to death.

[@LeonAust]

F-15E replaced the F-111 and both were used for the deep strike role, but I think if the F-111F refitted out with the F-15E avionics' and weapons would have been better aircraft. They have a longer range, faster, and could carry a larger bomb load than the F-15E. The F-111 was untouchable in its day.

[@harrisonmagic6305]

Really was underestimated by most enthusiasts, the fact that it flew the final missions in dangerous air to ground scenarios in Vietnam, killed more Iraqi tanks than the A10 ever came close to, and flew with the RAAF well into the 2000's putting pressure on enemy countries in Asia with it's enormous range and payload it was a banger! + got a maneuver kill against a enemy Iraqi Mirage F1 which was no joke of a fighter in its day.

[@Anarchy_420]

100% Agreed!👍 Lol and who doesn't love variable geometry ;)

[@duanesamuelson2256]

​@@harrisonmagic6305even today it would be hard to stop. Supersonic on the deck gives little reaction time when it's in your window of opportunity to intercept. Even today the terrain following radar would be competitive. Pilots picked direction and speed, radar kept you from hitting trees and powerlines

[@martystrasinger3801]

With 2.6k comments maybe I’m not the only one to make this comment, but I would prefer this be done with the Kido Butai fleets 100 miles apart (as noted in the introduction), and the carriers with the correct plane composition of zeros vs kates vs vals. One makes the scenario harder, the other easier. Then have the 15E launch from a designated Army Air Corps base in Hawaii with whatever fuel it can hold while still taking off with a max load or ordnance and no in flight refueling. This would reflect the scenario of an F-15 just magically appearing on the ground an hour before Kido Butai starts launching planes.

[@ajsnell6256]

Honestly the only way I see a single jet making any actual difference in the outcome is by offering a response to the attack FAR before the Japanese thought was possible. And the element of surprise and the fear caused by 5-6 planes just spontaneously blowing up and being lost to an invisible enemy would've created some serious questions.

[@joefish6091]

Lost flights was normal in olden times. bad weather etc.

[@billcollins6894]

My uncle was a native Hawaiian who was 6 years old on 12/7/1941. He watched some of the planes until his mother grabbed him and took him inside.

[@Italician]

In 1980 two F-14's on patrol were engaged by two Zeros after CVN68 time warped to 1941. The F-14's subsequently shot them down. I saw a documentary movie about the incident. The carrier launched multiple aircraft to attack other assets in the area but the mission was aborted due to a weather anomaly.

[@ascoop22]

It was a movie, it wasn't a documentary movie.

[@jmayer29]

@@ascoop22 is humor lost on you?

[@widyasantoso4910]

@@jmayer29 Not really. We're looking at ascoop, and laughing at him.

[@ascoop22]

@@jmayer29 You think he was humouring calling it a documentary movie? It was 40 years ago so I thought that maybe he just didn't recall the movie properly.

[@ascoop22]

@@widyasantoso4910 That's ok. I've been laughed at before.

[@drmichaellum]

Reminds me of the F-14 Tomcat versus Zero(s) in the Final Countdown movie.

[@jonwheelis2037]

Better to have had 1 Nuclear attack submarine than 1 A/C of any kind.

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

That’s beautiful - never seen a nose cone shot off before. Cap always delivers!

[@pahtar7189]

I wonder how well the radar would work without the nosecone.

[@Fadaar]

@@pahtar7189 current F-15E's would be fine since the old radar package has been replaced with a solid array. aerodynamics would be totally borked though.

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

@@pahtar7189 I’m blown away that the game actually models things like this. The attention to detail in the game engine and the models I’d stunning.

[@YoPhocFays]

The grunting in his voice during the sharp banking. Those high G menuvers must really take its toll on him.

[@johnl9857]

Pretty cool

[@kevinsears7300]

you know what else could have prevented Pearl Harbor? alerting the base that they sunk a Japanese ship HOURS BEFOREHAND, having planes IN THE AIR to engage the enemy. pearl harbor was allowed to happen because the main argument against joining the war was that the united states hadn't been attacked. DD139, the USS WARD was spotted and sunk late in the night prior to the attack on pearl harbor... this claim, that they sunk a sub the night before, was contested by the top brass afterwards, however, the sub has been found, confirming that the USS WARD did in fact hit the sub, the shot glanced off the side and up into the tower, penetrating and puttign a hole in the sub. the sub went on to flood and sink as it tried to escape underwater.

[@justinmurphy2227]

Wait.....whaaattt? Photogamus Maximus and the Grim(y) Reapers are compadres? Honestly it makes perfect sense and it's a perfect match for us beautiful humans/viewington wooingtons! LOL! Mr. Tog knows I'm a huge fan of his work and I never miss a GR presentation. (I've had 5 spinal surgeries in the last 5 years after tumors were removed so I have a LOT of couch time for my YouTubian educational degree.) Thank you both, as well as ALL the talented GR pilots and programmers, for all you do for the aviation community!

[@PilotPhotog]

Thank you, Justin! I always enjoy working with the Reapers and it is my joy to make aviation videos - always appreciate your feedback sir, be well and now you know!

[@grimreapers]

I wish you the best health :)

[@scarcasmtincap2856]

First bomb hit! Did you see how the zero jerked back and forth? Cant believe the modeling.

[@dangeary2134]

The swamp Algae Rythm tossed this at me again, and I’ve had time to think about it… So, I get tossed into a a place just before a fray…. Make a few runs, but keep some of the ordinance on the plane. Get back to Pearl before bingo fuel… Hand over the plane, and make sure that the ordinance goes with it back stateside, and tell them to copy and reverse engineer EVERYTHING. They won’t understand the electronics, because transistors had not been invented yet… Accompany the aircraft for both your knowledge of the craft, and the history that you know.

[@joevalicenti2722]

There is no way a Japanese Zero (or any other warbird for that matter) would be able to even fire on a modern jet as they would never be able to compensate for the speed difference they would be seeing. In this game, the computer doesn't realize that so the AI Zero Pilots stand a much better chance than reality.

[@LatitudeSky]

The Zero may be able to reach FL20 on paper but with little combat effectiveness at that altitude and zero ability to cope with an F15 that will seem to them like it is teleporting across the sky, here one moment and 20 miles away the next and moving far beyond anything they can comprehend, and moving from target to target before anyone can reposition or intercept.

[@shockashoota]

I was kinda thinking that , I done see a single round touching these things . Just buzzing the ship super sonic would probably be enough for them to turn home before 100 more show up .

[@19MarkDavid]

Japanese Zero top speed 350, F-15 top speed around 1500+. F-15 would have engaged and been out of sight before the Japanese pilots were even aware. And wasn't Kirk Douglas in this very scenario in the 1980 movie The Final Countdown.

[@bradford_shaun_murray]

16:45 ✈︎

[@framegrace1]

They will if you try to dogfight them, like they do for fun at the end of the video. If you low your speed to theirs for a one to one fight, I'm afraid the zeros have all the superiority. There's no way a F15 outmaneouvers a zero in that situation. But there's no need to dogfight... just bomb the carriers and gtfo, they will have nowhere to land.

[@Raycheetah]

Liam as WSO was the MVP of that perfect first mission. I can only imagine the commanders of the rest of the IJN fleet as they watched ONE plane get six bomb hits and six kills on their carriers, to say nothing of all the Zero pilots with nowhere to land. =^[.]^=

[@liamoneal7643]

thank you thank you

[@detroitboy65]

I have watched a few of these videos and despite their claims of "realism" I submit that no WW2 plane could put a single tracer on a modern 4th gen fighter. The Zero pilot would have had training on intercepting a plane that travels 4x the speed of the Zero!

[@mattlarson5979]

With the Strike Eagle being a night / all-weather platform, you could make your attack at night and the Zeros would be eliminated as a factor.

[@bryantbrewer3014]

Something this Sim doesn't take into consideration is the psychological effect seeing a plane that fast, with no prop, afterburners kickin' in, etc. would have on any WWII pilot.

[@BW022]

In most cases, they would probably never see it. However, what they could easily hear is the F15 pilot on the radio warning Pearl Harbor, the number of aircraft, ships, locations, etc. By that time the Japanese commanders would be terrified that 100 more aircraft like that would come, that every plane would be airborne, that the ships would be out of the harbor, etc.

[@v3rlon]

In the second battle, put 2 eagles on air defense after they drop their first bombs (and equip them to do it). Of course, flying the mission at night would have pretty much solved everything. The first sign of trouble would be the bombs hitting the carriers.

[@playgroundchooser]

To a person on one of the Japanese carriers; it would have been like a ghost suddenly and violently destroyed the ship. :-O

[@bzipoli]

​@@playgroundchooseryou think there weren't night bomb raids in WWII? you think people on the ground thought they were being hit by ghosts? you went to public school didnt you?

[@relic69]

HUZZAH. Nicely presented!

[@dmd1344]

Once the carriers are taken out, the planes would have nowhere to land

[@jeffreuppel4649]

why arent you a general?

[@herrzimm]

Against a "swarm", not a chance in hell that ANY aircraft can single handed prevent an attack. BUT, the F-15 "Strike Eagle" COULD stop the attack on Pearl Harbor by meeting the following conditions: 1) Carry enough "anti ship missiles" or JDams 2) AND sink/disable the Japanese aircraft carriers BEFORE they reach launch distance. Fail in EITHER of those two conditions, and the attack could proceed as planned. But, realistically....... IF the F-15 were to spot and do an initial attack on the Japanese fleet BEFORE they got within launch committed distance, the fact that their attack fleet had been spotted and engaged would have probably caused the commanders to call off the attack out of fear that the US aircraft carriers at Pearl would have been sent out of port to AVOID a possible attack. Which was the main goal to begin with. The fact that the aircraft carriers weren't at Pearl to begin with was a "fortunate mistake" for the Americans, but considered a disappointing "failure" for the Japanese original plans. Which is why they attacked whatever support ships they could, such as battleships, destroyers, frigates and supply ships.

[@itsjustme8947]

OR, a loadout consisting of two (2) B61-12 gravity bombs, dialed up to 11. Still won't do jack about most of the fighters.

[@LeonAust]

How about flown by competent sim pilots, that helps.

[@itsjustme8947]

@@LeonAust Given that they are flying one of the most complex weapon systems built by the seat-of-their-pants, they aren't doing too bad! I flew the real deal for 18 years, lol! Only mistake they always make is approaching their target in tight formation. That's one thing we'd never do! Also, if they are playing with the concept of having Mudhens in 1941, why not go all the way? They should have AWACS support directing each aircraft to its target without all the pilot chatter. They could have took out all six carriers and still had weapons left over to deliver to other surface ships. An 'E' also never flies without a pair of Sidewinders for defense.

[@rogerrussell5155]

Stay on target...stay on target ....use the force cap

[@432b86ed]

That question is almost as ridiculous as the contention that what happened that day was a surprise.

[@Fadamor]

Ehh... An F-15E has an operational range of 2400 miles without refueling. Even taking into account the additional drag of all the ordinance hung underneath, the Strike Eagle could have sunk all the carriers the night prior and returned back to Oahu - BEFORE the carriers had closed to within striking range - without ever getting visually detected. No need for afterburners, no need for evasive maneuvers. The only thing the Japanese sailors would have detected is a strange sound similar to a distant, constant thunder rumble. Remember, Japan didn't have ship-borne radar until 1942, so they relied entirely on visual acquisition for the Pearl Harbor attack. On the night of Dec 6/7, the moon was past full but still about 90% illuminated, so all the pilot would need to do to avoid being seen was not get themselves backlit by the moon. Afterwards, Japan could protest that they were illegally attacked, but without any visual evidence AND without any idea how the attack could have been so precisely delivered at night, the U.S. could plausibly deny any knowledge of who or what attacked their fleet... "and hey! What was your fleet doing so close to Hawaii anyway?!"

[@rackin5837]

one thing that could have made a difference, Once the strike eagle spotted the fleet it could have alerted Pearl Harbor and perhaps given them time to scramble.

[@michaelray3865]

Uss ward spotted a midget submarine, opened fire, and sank it in decent enough time that a certain number of interceptors and bombers could have been scrambled, and the ships put on a more suitable war footing (compartments closed up, engines coming up, ammo broken out, damage control measures prepared, etc). It seems fate had a different plan.

[@thomasaltizer1949]

scramble what ?? NOTHING, RP TNOTHING would have stood up to the zeros

[@michaelray3865]

@@thomasaltizer1949 in the numbers available around the Hawaiian islands, and with enough time to ge worthily numbers up, the P-40s and F4. Wildcat variants would have been more than enough to at least disrupt the attack and quite likely inflict crippling losses. People overestimate the Zero, it had its strengths, yes, but it’s main advantage lay in the crews flying them to their strengths and the Americans underestimating them at first. Once America sat down and crunched science and did analysis, the Zero was seen for what it really was.

[@bleidddrwg9847]

The japanese would really have masacred any us fighters. The zeros were best at that time and kido butai was the best ijn unit with many very experienced pilots. Even at midway the us won with so much luck... planes from enterprise that lost their way found the japanese fleet by accident at the most vunerable time...

[@philiprice7875]

and this would have given the IJN pilots more practice in such a target rich environment

[@MLN-yz4ph]

I think the best way to deal with the Zeros would have been to let them climb and then go low. They would then dive and have to fight there way back up each time. That 10k to 20k range would be party time for the F-15

[@scottgorman7166]

Fun stuff guys....hey lets keep the channel clear!

[@michaelhernandez-lv2qw]

How many G do you think you were pulling when you did that Lincoln loop or whatever you call it

[@justinpowell1139]

Looks like you just won the Pacific War with a few bombs and a nosecone. Considering the Japanese didn’t really meet the conditions for success in the attack, anyway, at least they still had a fleet at the end. This will have mitigated the damage of Pearl Harbor and immediately concluded any IJN dominance.

[@pahtar7189]

Not only that, but probably only a hundred planes even got into the air, so a lot fewer would have been able to do the attack, meaning much less damage to the port and ships. And you know precious few would have bailed out or landed on a Hawaiian island, so Japan would have lost virtually all of their best carrier-qualified pilots.

[@sergeantklein6026]

I’d love to see a flight of 15’s vs the invasion of Poland 1939 Or a troop of M1 Abrams

[@mihailmorozov3456]

A troop of M1 Abrams is still easy target for 150mm artillery with HE... but modern aviation is indeed interesting in this situation )

[@brankomilicevic6904]

​@@mihailmorozov3456not to mention the Luftwaffe

[@Davros-vi4qg]

@@Rodney_1984😮

[@streamofconsciousness5826]

How about a A10 for Operation Barbarossa, 4Million men and 3,000 tanks, 7,000 artillery pieces, and 2500 Planes.

[@yankees29]

@@streamofconsciousness5826good god talk about a target rich environment! The forward observer would be having an orgasm.