Could A Single Modern US Cruiser Have Won The 1942 Battle Of Midway? (Naval Battle 91) |DCS

[@Jo_draga]

Please do more videos like this, it was actually really cool to see something like this.

[@grimreapers]

kzbin.info/aero/PL3kOAM2N1YJdV_JwZaN1yGScRAb_yUTHx

[@Anarchy_420]

​@@grimreapers One LHD/LHA with AH-64 Apaches(Lol the one you guys* should have used from the start;) and UH-60 Black Hawks! With One Modern Ticonderoga and or Arleigh Burke!👍 Btw why didn't you guys use The UH-60??

[@SuperDriver379]

A MH-60R with a complement of modern torpedos would turn anything floating out there to a coral reef, but lacks AA so idk how you’d be able to get it in there to drop the most technologically advanced murder dolphin on planet earth. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@protorhinocerator142]

Consider what this would have done to the Japanese naval morale. One American ship, alone, did all this damage to the Japanese fleet. Just one. What happens if they spot two ships? Would you want to be the first ship within range?

[@michaelm54877]

@@grimreapers How about a modern carrier strike group dropped right on top of the front lines of WWI? Like right behind the trenches.

[@CanisMythson]

One thing that can't really be modeled is that the Japanese wouldn't know how dangerous that ship is, so they wouldn't treat it as if it were an entire fleet and throw their whole airpower at it. They'd think it was a heavy cruiser, or perhaps a small battleship, and try to deal with it with a small raid; and only after the missiles start coming in do they realize the actual danger.

[@jasonpatterson8091]

It would depend so much on intelligence as well. If the cruiser were able to direct its missiles at the carriers preferentially then that would have gone very differently. I don't know that it would have won, but if 90% of the planes never took off it would have been in a lot better shape.

[@kgee2111]

Rabbit hole.

[@TheProfficer]

Also I’m not sure if the United States has anything like this in service but helicopter borne awacs would be very useful

[@hphp31416]

tico would sail with mostly tasm missiles against fleet like this with longer range than carier based aircraft of the time and 500kg warheads

[@baronmonkerson2195]

The 1940s Japanese forces wouldn't have a clue as to how dangerous a 2020s ship would be.....they's be horrified when that wall of modern missiles came through....if the ship had been backed up by a Ford class carrier with F35s, it would have been game over for the Japanese fleet. The big advantage the 1940s fleet have is the swarming ability of all those piston engined aircraft. Sheer numbers is a definite advantage if all else fails.... A 2050s aircraft carrier with swarms of armed drones and direct energy laser weapons would blow their minds in the 1940s....lol

[@kevinford2644]

The largest problem I see with the setup on these scenarios is that the two fleets always blindly closed with each other. In a "real" situation the Ticonderoga is going to keep range between itself and the Japanese fleet.

[@verticalfracture]

i think the japanese fleet would have broken after a quarter of it inexplicably exploded from well outside of gun range.

[@g.alexander2424]

​@@verticalfracture exactly. The psychological.impact of the smaller ships and carriers getting popped at night from.somewhere.beyond radar and visual range would be terrifying. No splashes. No booms. Just a hum, whoosh, and boom. Repeat. The US Navy has determined 12-18 exo's to sink an Iowa but only 2 to render it ineffective. Harpoon and most anti-ship missiles have terminal phases that drop down. We should not underestimate the force a surface explosion creates on the crew standing topside. Those are the crews that need replacing and they remove from watch stations and damage control parties. The Mk99 FCS for the 5" main gun I have personally witnessed hit skin-to-skin on multiple missile drones. A WWII fighter plane is definitely capable of being shot at it as well as by CIWS. Granted, you'll only get 10 planes per mount but the battle should never come to that because the carriers would be dead by then.

[@zantano1425]

Well it got mostly damaged by aircrafts which it cant outrun so yeah eventually its going down.

[@MatthewJamesWine]

​@Zantano Watching those pilots maneuver to attack... they would all be unconscious from the g force. The model is based on aircraft capabilities, not pilot physical limits. Taking pilot limits into account, angle of attack would be more predictable and CIWS more successful.

[@andrewa3216]

100% would have been an instant disengagement when half the fleet took hits instantly from out of nowhere

[@michaelw6085]

Interesting fact a single Yamato turret weighs more than a US fletcher class destroyer

[@Nathan-ry3yu]

Yes it does but also the that ship wouldn't stand a chance up against a heavy modern cruiser with missiles

[@cloakedgt]

@@Nathan-ry3yu plus dont some missiles they use today have depleted uranium? im not sure about modern equipment

[@Skerra-kk6sm]

​@@Nathan-ry3yuA modern cruiser will still blow up from a Yamato shell just like an older ship. There really isn't that much difference in the bones of the ships. It's all in the electrical and weapon systems but those older systems were still effective.

[@rodneywhitfield5754]

A classic, yes you can build it stronger,….. but there are limits…..

[@iamblight707]

​​@@Skerra-kk6smThe Yamamoto would never get in range. And the modern ships are much harder to sink due to the increased number of fail-safes on munitions and the number of countermeasures against flooding. Fighters would be swatted out of the sky by modern radar guided phalax style weapons. Enemy cruisers and perhaps with proper timing, carriers would be taken out with one precisely placed missile. The single ship would be difficult to detect. The Japanese partly lost Midway because they were unable to find the American carriers.

[@LiterallyOverTheHillAdventures]

Ticondaroga class cruisers carry two helicopters that have surface search radars that could used instead of AWACS to find the Japanese surface force.

[@inscrutianaII]

Among other things. It'd be equally interesting to consider a Flight III Burke with at least one MQ-19 spinning around for hours and hours. We could kick it both pair of it's supported SH-60s but IDK if they'd be super successful in a ASuW role (during the day...). I guess it'd be lighting up the world with the APS-153. I don't see a single Burke heading out there. Wouldn't it be neat if it were the center of a taskforce of USVs. That sounds like 2023 fantasy to me, if one was putting in the work. No telling what their configuration would be.

[@dreddj.9451]

You wouldnt need scouting, the radar on the DDG or Cruiser would pick them up, even without satellites,,,

[@johnbrobston1334]

@@dreddj.9451 It would pick them up right about the time that the first 18" shells arrived. By which point a Tico is screwed. A number of people on this board seem to think that radar is some kind of magic that can see hundreds of miles at surface level. It can't. A Tico might spot a BB at 20 miles or so by radar, but at 20 miles the Tico is in range of the BB. That 200 mile range that is advertised is for air search against aircraft at high altitude, not ships on the surface.

[@hresvelgr7193]

@@johnbrobston1334 And how exactly is the Yamato detecting the Tico before the reverse?

[@johnbrobston1334]

@@hresvelgr7193 At Midway the main striking force had 264 combat aircraft. It can see as far as those planes can fly. And if the Tico tries to shoot them all down, it runs out of missiles before the Japanese run out of planes.

[@anthonyguida569]

As someone from the Navy, the Ticonderoga cruiser would NEVER get that close to the Japanese fleet like this. It would use its 5in gun and VLS to decimate the fleet since they lacked any type of CIWS/AEGIS system. Plus, they'd have taken evasive maneuvers to avoid the bombs/torpedoes. Still very cool to see this! I'd say the whole tide of the war was changed.

[@teeanahera8949]

45in guns? I think you’ve had enough internet for one day. There’s a Mark 45 Lightweight Gun that’s 5 inches.

[@AndrewWellsPlus]

I thought the silliest part was the Japanese navy shooting down all the harpoon missiles lol targets also would have definitely been prioritized differently targeting the aircraft carriers first as they pose the biggest threat to the cruiser.

[@Mike-gz4xn]

The Japanese fleet, which can match the TICO's speed has a say, and would close as best they could per their doctrine. Their guns (bigger than the ticos 5") would have a great range and be more deadly.

[@failingup4907]

This is what I thought also. That ship wouldn't be anywhere near the danger zone of the Japanese fleet.

[@l7986]

@@Mike-gz4xn If they can match the Tico's speed all that needs to be done is turn the cruiser around and start running away and the battleships would never catch them. The captain would have to be a monumentally stupid person to willingly get into range of the guns or even let the Japanese fleet get within 100 miles of his ship.

[@lukecreamer8426]

The modern (2023) Tico never had a deep enough magazine to sink all of those ships, particularly the BBs, but the battle would have gone more favorably for her if you had made a couple of realistic tactical changes: 1) She would never in a million years close into gun range of Yamato. She is the faster ship between the two, and she would turn away after closing enough to fire her missiles. 2) She would have reserved the harpoons for the BBs, as they are her only effective weapon against them, while her SM-6s were quite effective against the destroyers, cruisers, and carriers. Additionally, she would likely reserve these missiles until the point defenses of the BBs were crippled to maximize their effectiveness, especially considering that she only had 8 available and could not rely on a saturation attack. 3) She would have had a much more effective air defense while retreating at an offset angle, allowing both bushmasters and CIWS systems to fire. Additionally, the 5-inch guns have a significant AAW capability - particularly against subsonic, non-sea-skimming targets - that does not seem to have been employed here at all. Combined, this more effective air defense would have made it unnecessary to employ her helos for AAW. 4) Her helo complement would have been reserved for ASW and ASuW, likely not even being launched until she won the air war on her own merits. Their hellfires and lightweight torpedoes still would have no hope of sinking the BBs, but they could have crippled them from a standoff range with minimal risk, maximizing the effectiveness of the harpoons. 5) She would also be dropping her own lightweight anti-submarine torpedoes while retreating from the charging BBs, greatly increasing their effective range compared to if she were charging ahead at flank speed. Again, the best these could do is cripple the BBs, ideally with a hit to the propellers. Short of a lucky hit on the BBs' screws which would only grant her an operational victory, the best hope for a modern cruiser would have been to sink all but the battleships and retreat home with an empty magazine, Yamato-sama hot on her heels until she got to friendly air cover, but we all know how massive air raids go for Yamato... That said, we've neutered our cruisers by removing the TLAM-N around 2010. If the US were custom-outfitting a cruiser with our lone time-travelling device to try to preempt the engagement at Midway, I would think she would be carrying at least one or two of these. With their maximum 150kt yield warheads, she could have won the day outright, detecting and eliminating the enemy ships over the horizon, even without the ability to precisely engage a particular target because these missiles were intended for land attack. I have no doubt we could slap some together in a hurry today, and in the near future the Navy plans on deploying nuclear-armed cruise missiles again.

[@jaiclary8423]

Yup, this is cute, but an extremely poor simulation in terms of realism. The Japanese carriers at Midway were matchboxes, not floating tanks. Japanese ships were famously terrible at gunnery. WWII airplanes were almost as bad as WWII AA guns and would be useless against modern AA, armor, and damage control.

[@wedgeantilles8575]

@@jaiclary8423 WWII airplanes were almost as bad as WWII AA guns and would be useless against modern AA, armor, and damage control. Obviously that is not true. Torpedoes and bombs from WW2 would still damage (and sink) the most modern ships. Battleships were much more armored than our modern ships -> if the modern ship gets hit, it would take even MORE damage than e.g. the Yamato. The question is not if modern ships could surive more damage than WW2 ships. The question is would they get hit by WW2 aircraft.

[@jaiclary8423]

@@wedgeantilles8575 at 32 knots you're still looking at the top end of WWII maneuverability so no, you will not be hitting this ship with your prop planes carrying dumb bombs or your single kate that somehow isn't dead yet. And when you do, somehow, yes it will hurt but it's not going to detonate a magazine.

[@wedgeantilles8575]

@@jaiclary8423 Mh, if a modern cruiser gets hit by multiple 500 pound bombs I guess the ship will be in major trouble. Just like back in WW2. I am no expert, but aren't modern ships LESS armored than in WW2? The point is not to get hit, not to withstand a beating like the battleships did back then.

[@jaiclary8423]

@@wedgeantilles8575 somewhat, but it's also about where the armor is placed. Even in WWII they were adopting the all-or-nothing scheme. And again, it's not *just* the armor. It's that modern AA will stop these prop planes long before they fire, and even if one hits modern ships know what to armor, and even if its bad the USN knows how to do damage control. Don't tunnel on one thing like the thickness of armor.

[@mandoreforger6999]

I would like to see a part 2 where you focus on keeping the cruiser hidden until it can identify which ships are the carriers, as the SM-6 can be tasked to hit specific ships. If you can disable the carriers before they can spam aircraft, the battle is won.

[@exidy-yt]

Do you mean that the SM-6 can be tasked to hit specific ships in DCS? or just in the real world?

[@anathardayaldar]

Maybe a modern submarine flotilla then?

[@leepatterson5710]

Yeah this with the cruiser being player-controlled to select targets instead of the mass number of missiles attacking the same target.

[@madczechoutdoors1088]

If it will allow. I wouldn’t attack anything but the carriers first

[@GMdrivingMOPARguy]

I do know if for sure it's won, if the destroyer gets in range of the Yamamatos main guns it's game over

[@jeffrywilson7202]

Could you imagine fighting this battle and surviving. Imagine going back to Japanese Fleet command and trying to explain to them that one ship did this much damage to your fleet. They wouldn't believe it.

[@justinkashtock333]

They probably would have assumed there were more ships that they couldn't see since the zeros were still likely beyond visible range when all those missiles were fired.

[@ripn929707]

I'd love to see them try to explain bombs that turn, and helicopters with auto cannons and rockets.😂

[@HenryLiu7]

An interesting anime (adapted from the manga of the same name, Zipang) depicted a modern JMSDF missile cruiser traveled back in time to the middle of the Battle of Midway. The author went into detail on the differences in weapons and tactics between modern/WW2.

[@killman369547]

They might not, but such claims would force some kind of investigation which at first would be small because they wouldn't want to waste a lot of resources on something so fantastical. But if they were able to confirm the existence and capabilities of the ship then things get interesting. Some would want that ship and it's technology come hell or high water. Others would probably realize that a ship like that almost can't be touched with their level of technology and that it would probably be wiser to leave the time traveling ship alone.

[@snizami]

It would honestly feel like some Armageddon set in motion by an other worldly force. Most of the destruction would seem to be utterly spontaneous owing to missile speeds. Terrifying to think just a few decades of advancement would seem so alien in its power imbalance.

[@fin-ed6oj]

While the battle may not have been 'won', I think it's pretty safe to say you've completely devastated the Japanese fleet and turned the tide of the war

[@MarkLac]

And that is putting it lightly. Not only would Kido Butai be devastated losing all four carriers in a flash, the Ticonderoga has plenty of other missiles left to hit whatever the heck it would want. Probably could damage or sink more of the Major Capital Ships like Heavy Cruisers or Battleships (and has a shot at Yamato since Tomohawk Cruise Missiles have quite the range). Just need to expend the missiles wisely and then just run the hell away as getting into a Gun Battle is instant death for the Ticonderoga.

[@ghz24]

Yeah the cruiser won the battle the Japanese fleet would be forced to withdraw. The invasion would be called off and they lost at least likely 4 of their carriers and all those well traoned pilots. The question was could it win the battle not could it demolish the entire fleet.

[@danubiosalas4231]

They should have stayed away from the battleships, out of range, and use the misiles to cause damage. The CIWS can deal with the Zeros and bombers, the choppers go to sink carriers with air-ground weapons.

[@hafor2846]

I mean, a knight would demolish a lot of modern soldiers who have to attack him with a combat knife. The thing is, a knight would just get shot in the face if he tries to close in.

[@cavscout1739]

The Japanese fleet was an invasion fleet. If the cruiser decimated the air arm, there was still all of that surface power to put the ship to rest (if that hadn't been done already). Remember, by the point that the American carrier task forces had reached their position to support Midway, it had already been heavily damaged on the runways and planes.

[@tyruskelebon6917]

The biggest issue when you try to compare a small modern force (whatever the actual force is, a ship, an Army battalion, a tank platoon) is we would need A LOT more ammo than we are used to equipping.

[@techietisdead]

Im pretty sure that is the main point being considered, enough missiles means any fleet would get rekt

[@txlyons2937]

19:16 This is an amazing shot. Loved seeing the cruiser unleashing its ordnance. This vid was wildly entertaining.

[@RCAvhstape]

From a distance the Ticonderoga cruiser is the Grim Reaper, felling enemy ships like corn stalks, but getting into gun range of enemy battleships seems to be a pretty bad move for any lone cruiser, vintage or modern.

[@damiensteiner9919]

Less armour on modern cruisers.

[@Johnboy33545]

The cruiser never has to get that close. The carriers would be gone in minutes with the battleships and heavy cruisers next. We could see farther and fire with greater accuracy and speed. When the killing, slaughter actually, was done the cruiser would be out of range.

[@Johnboy33545]

@@damiensteiner9919: Less need.

[@bbaff8622]

@@Johnboy33545 How would the carriers be gone in minutes? The Tico has 8 Harpoons. How do you think it would sink the battleships and carriers and heavy cruisers with 8 Harpoon? even if loaded out with TASM that take away the air defense capabilities, still have 300+ aircraft to deal with. CIWS will get some before needing the reload, and the 5" will get some more but 300 planes is a hell of a lot when your max AA missile load out is 122, well I could be wrong on that, depending on VLS type they may have 4 ESSM or Sea Sparrow pr cell. Still not going to hurt a battleship but can do a hell of a lot to the aircraft.

[@joewelch4933]

@@bbaff8622 You dont need to sink the ships to make them combat ineffective. A few holes in the flight deck would do the job well enough.

[@gary6198]

i think if there is only one ship versus the whole fleet, it probably will try to stay as far as possible instead of trying to get closer

[@YTT718]

Facts

[@HansWHoefnagels]

This. And how about waiting 'till darkness? Send the helicopters to sort out which radar target is more important than another and use your modern sensors to help finding the carriers.

[@navycorpsman744]

Pretty much this. Standoff weapons mean just that ,stay tf away. Also with the AEGIS radar and targeting system it would have identified the carriers and handled them first THEN the support ships especially the troop transports.

[@silvercrescent1264]

It would and one missile would likely be sufficient to cripple those carriers

[@aerodynamiccerebrum]

Let's not forget his numbers are off. The VLS can carry 122 missiles plus the 8 harpoons. Add to this that weps would launch one of the Seahawks to extend the range of its sensors allowing the harpoons to engage at near their max range well out of range of even the 18 inch guns. As well as the missiles. Add to this the layered defense of the CG the 5" guns could easily track and engage the planes at 15 miles. I'm not saying that the ship would have won, but with intelligent target prioritizing the carriers would be sunk before half their planes could get in the air. This would allow the missiles to engage the other craft at will. The losses on the Japanese fleet would have been crippling.

[@alexandermcfarlane4019]

There is something so viserally pleasing about seing a hind rinse a zero with machine gun and cannon fire. Also Sock flying for a good bit while missing a wing. "Ah, you have destroyed my wing. I can fly FASTER now!"

[@CrazyPalidin57]

Keep in mind, the Ticonderoga never took evasive maneuvers to avoid the bomb hits.

[@AndyProkopenko-jx1fy]

Neither did the jap pilots to avoid missles

[@mikehawk120]

Spot on, I was on CG53 and 63 and we did the patterns from time time.

[@elizabethlestrad5282]

The captain was overconfident that 80 year old weaponry wouldn't pose a threat to modern armor and weapons. The missiles also seemed to prioritize the Zeros, instead of the torpedo and dive bombers.

[@danielhawkins6425]

I can't help but think taking control of the ship earlier and doing a little basic zig-zagging would have prolonged the ship's life significantly.

[@ct8764]

Same idea here. Defensive maneuvers significantly reduced bomb accuracy.

[@Kharnellius]

Yeah like wtf. This battle wasn’t even close to how one sided it would have been. Going straight in without any maneuvering while keeping your ballistic AA blocked by the super structure?!

[@patfarra627]

Not with smart weapons

[@zerogrey3798]

A common tactic back then was to sail into artillery splashes because gun crews never fired at the same spot twice. So yeah basiclly zigzag around.

[@alexsis1778]

@@Kharnellius At the same time those aircraft tactics from the Japanese were completely not realistic. The japanese would be rapid launching entire squadrons at a time which would form up and attack in waves. They wouldn't stream in one after the other. It took about 35 minutes to launch all of the carrier's available planes and while this might be a tad quick for a full launch of absolutely everything on board, the actual launches wouldn't have been a constant slow stream. They would have happened in rapid succession followed by a pause. The final real difference is the fact that they were using fighters with bombs as a stand in for actual bomber aircraft which means a massive difference in available bomb tonnage. The A6M2 could only carry a pair of 60 kg bombs while the D3A1 could carry that same pair of 60 kg bombs in addition to a 250 kg bomb (370 kg of ordinance total). This also increased the actual explosive amount from 46 kg to 149. A pretty heft increase.

[@drewfierman3834]

Cap, ship based helicopters can be used to guide missiles over the horizon. also the tomahawk block 5 anti-ship variant is in service so the tico would use that instead of SM-6

[@yournamehere9928]

Yeah, until they give their Tico and Arleigh Burke models Block Va Tomahawks, they're not gonna do well in large, surface warfare engagements.

[@mandoreforger6999]

Exactly., The AP-153 multimode radar aboard the MH-60R helicopters have a surface search capability out to roughly 200nm depending on altitude, which it could use to plot the fleet far in advance, and this would allow the Cruiser to stay well out of range. The helicopter has a synthetic aperture radar as well, so from 100-150 miles, it is going to be able to identify the big ships easily. This would allow for selective targeting of the carriers by Harpoons which will be able to attack simultaneously and completely without warning.

[@mandoreforger6999]

@@yournamehere9928 Harpoons will easily kill those Tinder Box carriers. 2 hits per carrier will set them afire from bow to stern, just like occurred at Midway. They were unarmored and had fuel lines running through every part of the ship…a terribly unsurvivable design.

[@valuedhumanoid6574]

I was on my way down here to make that same comment, then I thought that surely someone else has said this, and lo and behold I find your comment! They also can act as a general purpose AWAC's. They don't have datalink or anything like that, but it's better than being totally blind

[@yournamehere9928]

@@mandoreforger6999 I was talking more in general, not specifically just WWII scenarios. Though, even in this scenario, I don't think the Harpoons did a whole lot; the two carriers that were sunk were sunk by the SM-6 iirc. Since DCS doesn't have very good deconfliction and has wonky AI that allows a Yamato to unrealistically target and shoot down a Harpoon, you'd need a lot more than just 8 Harpoons to make them have a good chance of actually targeting high priority targets and not getting locked onto just a few ships.

[@user-nh3gu1ge3d]

Modern ship would definitely smoke them. Instead of one incompetent player cosplaying the captain, it would have 100 highly trained experts. Their tactics would be vastly superior than yours, they'd attack at night, they'd have more range (and wouldn't get in range, either), and there's no chance the old machine guns are hitting those missiles. They'd be sitting ducks. Just a question of munitions. And if the modern ship ran out, ok, go reload then come back and sink the rest. No competition, you're just bad at it. But good video, fun.

[@cruiserbob1]

There's nowhere the modern ship can go in 1942 to reload, because none of the armaments it carries existed in 1942.

[@user-nh3gu1ge3d]

@@cruiserbob1 Yeah, no shit dummy. The ship didn't exist in 1942, either. It's called a hypothetical. IF this ship existed at that time is the question. And IF it did exist and IF they did build it and those weapons, then it would. Derp.

[@The_Viscount]

Okay, Here's something I don't get: Why wasn't the Ticonderoga firing her deck guns at the aircraft? The US 127mm guns are auto-loading and compatible with proxy fuses and use radar fire control. With the range they have, I'd be expecting rapid fire, pinpoint flak to be all over those planes.

[@Leon1Aust]

It was if you noticed audio but only one fired, but they should have sailed a zig zag into the flock of zero's as the cruisers rear 5" gun could have acquired targets

[@Johnboy33545]

Why? The carriers are the 1st to go and no planes get off. The attack fails without air support.

[@Johnboy33545]

@@Leon1Aust: All the Japanese planes were swimming down deep.

[@mbukukanyau]

The Japanese in 1943 didn't even know the US Navy had proximity fuses on their anti aircraft guns, and the war ended without them finding out. A fight like this would simply make any 1940's Navy try to flee in terror. To no vail.

[@dr.threatening8622]

Not to mention, shouldn't the CIWS be splashing slow moving planes?

[@xet1sw156]

Interesting video, but I noticed that the 5 inch guns were not used in air defense. I am going to assume it is a problem with game dynamics since the use of 5 inch naval guns in AA dates back to before WWII. Modern 5 inch guns would be even more effective as they can use both proximity and variable time fuses. In addition to be radar/computer guided and controlled, much more accurate than WWII fire directors. The GR gang deserves serious congratulations for having to work around game problems (and not Cap problems) to bring us such entertaining content

[@gamm8939]

I seriously doubt that they would do anything to a small target travelling at Mach 3, especially considering how horrible the IJN was at AA.

[@xet1sw156]

@@gamm8939 I was referring to the defending Ticonderoga class cruisers two 5 inch guns against the attacking Zeros. Sorry if that wasn't clear. But you are correct; the IJN, or for that matter any 1940's navy, lacked the fire control to target a modern jet and defiantly not a missile. Most period aircraft topped out in the low 400 mile per hour range, faster than that and you would exceed the design envelope of the fire control director equipment. And the manually aimed weapons would suffer from the gunners never being trained to lead a plane moving that fast. It's doubtful they would even see the SM-6's - too small and too fast. Of course, throw enough lead downrange and you might get lucky.

[@peterhineinlegen4672]

The game is severely limited compared to an actual ship. You _could_ fill the launchers with Tomahawks and sink everything from a thousand miles away, but that wouldn't make a good video. I've got an old rate training manual that used the Zero as the target in illustrations.

[@lukeallison3713]

The modern american 5"54 and 62 only has a 65 degree elevation however, although with the right ammuniton, it could be very deadly against subsonic missiles. Something like a sovrememny with 2x2 ak130 and 4 ak 630 would shred the zeros to pieces

[@Jeffrey.1978]

@Xet1sw - Yep, the MK 45 is definitely not modeled very well in DCS. A lot of other things aren't either. LOL Proximity fused rounds used in a AAW role would be an option. I was thinking the same thing in the past when Grim Reapers did the scenario with the Iranian drone swarm against the CSG. The Mk 45 could have smoked a lot of the drones starting at about 10nm out.

[@junkiexl86]

Its fun to see but realistically if this did happen, Japanese would have no way of understanding the threat Ticonderoga presented until it was too late. They were also not expecting an attack of any kind as they thought they had the element of surprise on thier side. In addition to that, Ticonderoga would have stayed at a safe standoff range with the 109E's. The 4 carriers presented the bulk of the threat in the Midway operation and taking out 2-3 of them at the start with the 109E's and that battle is over. Leaving the Japanese confused, disorganized and in full retreat back to the mainland before the operation even really got started (apart from the first historical air attack on the Midway islands that did happen).

[@timtimtimmay4654]

With over the horizon capabilities and the advanced radar and IR systems on the Tico class, a night ambush would have made a huge difference. Also, with the Mk 86 not being utilized nor the general speed of the vessel to flank while firing it, the lack of utilizing the Mk 32 torpedos if you could get in range, and unused deck guns for close and slow AA, there was a lot left on the table. -sincerely, a former Tico FC. If it flies, it dies.

[@danielmarske234]

Ciws?

[@wool1701]

Yup, you'd Time-on-Target 20-odd cruises for the carrier decks at zero hour and it'd be no-zero-hour.

[@Floris_VI]

Yeah totally, it doesnt at all make sense to close in right??

[@cinco_de_la_tarde]

Yeah, even if we are under the assumption you can't identify which smokestacks are which ships, getting even a single heilo up at night with night vision to make that identification so you could launch a full scale barrage of missiles to take out the carriers before planes could get into the air would be huge.

[@plektosgaming]

Exactly. Dump the torpedoes at the larger ships and kite away, then while it's still dark, pick off the carriers as they can't launch in the middle of the night - any old fire on their deck will disable them. Chaos ensues for 10-15 minutes and their entire force stops and runs away. Faster speed, longer range, night vision, and radar while they have none... The survivors would be telling stories about ghost ships and god-like bolts of lightning striking them down.

[@kevinnaber790]

Yamato was with the Main Force, not the First Strike Force. Also, half of the Japanese aircraft had already attacked Midway when the two fleets made contact, so only around 140 Japanese aircraft were available for the fleet engagement.

[@Murzac]

Considering that that cruiser is launching endless Hinds and Ka-50s I don't think a pair of Yamato's in the Kido Butai is the weirdest thing in the scenario lol

[@deathwishdrang1780]

Yeah, why did you throw Yamatos into the mix when it was 2 rebuilt WW I battlecruisers, think you made a big Yamato sized mistake there cowboy, like Kevin said, that ship was waaaay far back and never fired a shot...Kevin, you know your hstory, A+

[@cruiserbob1]

@@Murzac true, but the helicopters were pretty much useless in the simulation.

[@Kodoji]

I still don't understand why they put Yamato there

[@BiosElement]

Reminds me of Zipang, if you haven't seen it I highly recommend. A modern-day Japanese cruiser goes back in time to mid-WW2 and there is a huge focus on the ethics of intervening either way.

[@kevinlyons1564]

So ...a Japanese version of final countdown movie where a Nimitz class carrier goes back in time to right before pearl harbor ?

[@rollamichael]

Hard to find but i found an English version, entertaining so far! I'm trying to learn Japanese so looking for the original.

[@KevinSmith-qi5yn]

Was gonna say, sounds like Zipang.

[@ad-skyobsidion4267]

@@rollamichaelthere is an anime which covers a part of zipang

[@romnickbaldoza4231]

Very good animee..

[@oledahammer8393]

A modern ship like this could hit them with harpoon missiles from so far away and so fast they would really never know what hit them. They would have no defense systems against them.

[@goatlocker219]

The problem is they don't have enough missiles. They only carry 8 Harpoons.

[@bojinglebells]

@@goatlocker219 right, but in a "realistic" scenario, you only need to take out the carriers and then the entire fleet is effectively defeated, just like the real Midway.

[@goatlocker219]

@@bojinglebells It's going to take more than 8 Harpoons. But, what do I know,? This was only my exact job for 21 years.

[@bojinglebells]

@@goatlocker219 Oh I didn't know you were a time traveler, I shall defer to your expertise.

[@dexteromaa1086]

​@@goatlocker219 Im pretty sure 2 harpoon missiles would sink any ww2 carrier lol. No defense, not enough armor, two giant ass craters to repair in the middle of the ocean with no modern repair systems, equipment and fire suppression. Those ships would be lost immediately. And if by some god given miracle its not sunk, they couldn't use it as a carrier until they brought it to port for repairs, still leading to victory in midway

[@SanDiegoCRM]

I dig it, and as a Plankowner on CG-65 USS CHOSIN I think you left out a couple things. 1. The Ship and the helo both have Mk-50 Torpedoes which could be used in a standoff mode. Also, I think your engagement envelope would definitely favor the cruiser as her AEGIS system would detect and allow them to engage at a much farther range. Last but not least is the 5" 45 gun on the ship which can be set to auto mode for both offense and defense, and the ships CIWS which would be able to detect, track and engage fighters of this era. Those are my 2 cents as a loyal Tico guy.

[@chazzn121]

and yet - the CG would run out of ammo and be sunk. answer in reality is 1 AEGIS CG verses a WW2 Jap fleet and win is - NO

[@MrChickennugget360]

@@chazzn121 thats not known. Nothing is known about results like this. Japanese might withdraw after taking against an unknown threat. Japan withdrew against the US Navy at midway that was almost combat ineffective.

[@Dr3450]

Mk50's haven't been used in over 2 decades, we use the mk 46 or the mk 54 now. But good point overall.

[@SanDiegoCRM]

@@Dr3450 I stand corrected. Was a Bubblehead at one time and it was all Mk48

[@Dr3450]

@@SanDiegoCRM that would make sense! They still use 48's

[@Madmok128]

The Japanese reconnaissance during the morning of June the 4th 1942 was pretty weak and sparse considering what was at stake. Friggen Negumo

[@tophat2115]

The victory conditions for the Battle of Midway were primarily to prevent the island from being wiped out and taken, the carriers were the key, destroying the carriers first before they could launch all of their planes would have ensured victory.

[@maxlin3442]

What most DCS wargamers tend to negelect is the existance of the martime tomahawk(BGM-109B) with a range of 490 kilometers and a warhead nearly four times bigger the RGM-84 harpoon. These are very effective against armored ships. Good video though!

[@LorenPechtel]

This is 2020-era, the BGM-109B was removed from service in 1994.

[@maxlin3442]

@@LorenPechtel the new Block V Tomahawk can also act as antiship missile with help of GPS

[@LorenPechtel]

@@maxlin3442 Looks like it needs the Block VA ones to have the seeker--and from what I'm looking at I'm not sure that's even been deployed. However, I see they've added another feature--a detonator for the fuel tank. At short range (and this would be short) it can more than double the total boom, but that extra energy is fuel-air, not HE--probably won't do too much to heavy armor but it would really mess up the softer stuff. Replace the SM-6s with Tomahawk Block VAs and open the range a bit and this becomes a total turkey shoot.

[@pernilongoajato1235]

Cruiser didn’t even have AWACS support. I don’t think it would have GPS in a comparison like this one to use tomahawk missiles.

[@concinnus]

@@pernilongoajato1235 Tomahawks have INS for static ground targets or active radar for ships. They don't have to rely on GPS.

[@Chris-lp3dm]

My problem with this game scenario is why would a modern warship steam in so close to a massive WW2 era enemy fleet? The ability to stand-off at a considerable distance while launching a massive barrage of precision guided missiles is what the modern warship has as its greatest strengths. Closing in for close battle only weakens and potentially defeats this advantage. No, a Ticonderoga class or an Arleigh Burke class would use their ability to kill the enemy from the furthest out effective fighting distance. They would not charge into a melee where dozens of hostiles are concentrated around them.

[@aztec0112]

Yamato did not accompany the carrier strike force. Haruna and Kirishima were the supporting battleships with the carriers.

[@Katzenkotze85]

Hotel Yamato please^^

[@fhlostonparaphrase]

Kongō-class is probably not modeled in game.

[@aztec0112]

@@fhlostonparaphrase :You might be right. I never did the IJN download.

[@grimreapers]

Almost all of these were the wrong ships, but they are in the correct weight class/qty, closest we can get.

[@aztec0112]

@@grimreapers : Yeah, I was just doing the History Police flex. Still, it was entertaining to watch.

[@ryanerickson8138]

Time travel what if videos are usually pretty fun to watch. AH-64 can use FIM-92 Stinger in real life I think that would’ve helped the Tico survive longer because it didn’t seem like the other air to air missiles were hitting. It would be cool to have some helicopters charge at the carrier groups with Penguins as well!

[@ste425.]

As an a avid reader of warfare over the few hundred years (especially WWII) this is amazing to watch. please keep up the fantastic work.

[@TheJunehog]

The Japanese aircraft didn't just fly off -- they waited for the entire force to coalesce into a concentrated mass above the carriers before setting out.

[@CyberKnightX21]

One big difference with real tactics would be that they wouldn't just keep throwing missiles at the small ships when their primary high value units are sitting there untouched. In actual military tactics we don't go for a kill, we go for a mission kill. Once it's done a little bit of damage to the ship it would move on to the other ships. If you can take out primary systems or keep them busy with damage control then there's no point in continuing to fight them if there are other targets with no damage.

[@yeetzabois3582]

11:19 NO IS USED AS A CORRECTION TO FROM SINGLE FUNNEL TO TWIN FUNNELED DESTOYERS

[@penguinking1423]

the perfect narrator voice

[@anthonykodaski6161]

I literally was gonna say “it sounds like your voice got better”

[@bpop2148]

It got deeper

[@anthonykodaski6161]

@@bpop2148 at least now he actually sounds like he can speak. And he’s not straining his voice from strep throat or something like that

[@bpop2148]

@@anthonykodaski6161 yeah true, hopp he gets even better soon!

[@dlawson688]

Lol sounds like Peter Griffin when he was sick of Family Guy

[@johnrigg9907]

The Aegis cruisers/destroyers can use the 5" guns for AA. It was an update to the system in the late 80's. Also, you would be going at flank 3 and maneuvering.

[@cdjeeyore]

You wouldn't be going in a straight line.

[@toddrainer6542]

That's one of the chief things that bugs me about these scenarios - they just dive straight in - which would never happen and if there are aft guns, they never get limbered up.

[@silbay]

we used them for that in the 70's on Virginia Class Cruisers

[@kenmarcum5604]

This is pretty awesome! But one thing that is not taken into consideration is that the Japanese would not likely have continued the fight after the initial shock of losing nearly half their fleet, and a tremendous amount of aircraft so early on. In a fight to the last man, then the US cruiser would have certainly lost, but not without dealing a very significant blow to the entire Japanese naval fleet, but this was meant to be as real life as possible. If we are looking at it as a ‘realistically as possible’ scenario, then the Japanese would have likely turned back. They are going to have no idea what awaits them over the horizon. They are going to quickly realize that their primary objective is no longer achievable, after losing so many men and material on just one encounter with a defending ship. Charging headlong into what they may perceive as almost certain death would leave surely the Japanese mainland exposed to what they just encountered. Any good commander is not going to allow that. Best to retreat, regroup, and prepare to defend the homeland, while you try to gain intel on what just happened, and rebuild your fleet . Looking at it from that perspective, Midway would have likely never happened in the historical way. Now, in my opinion, if this scenario was done with a single American aircraft carrier, there’s no chance that any of the Japanese forces would have survived. They would not have had an opportunity to retreat either. Surrender would have been the only way to survive.

[@simonisenberg4516]

The close air defense phase was pretty awesome.

[@jonm2416]

"He's missing a rotor!" -"I'm fine." 😂😂😂😂😂

[@nippon19]

total chad here XD

[@charlesterry2407]

I don't understand why you never used the 5 inch 54 caliber dual purpose mounts? The IJN and IJA hated the 5 inch 38 dual purpose mount. The ole 5 inch 38 could reach out and touch someone above 37,000 feet. You neglected to use an important AAA defense .

[@magsaysay84]

I was in the US Navy. Served aboard a Tico. CG-71 USS Cape St. George. I served as an enlisted AEGIS Fire Controlman working on the SPY-1 RADAR. This was definitely an interesting video but you'll forgive me if I say that I think my ship and crew could probably have done a tiny bit better...Just kidding with you. Great video! Thanks for the entertainment and a neat walk down memory lane!

[@timtimtimmay4654]

Same, -an OG CG47 Aegis FC

[@biggusnikus6280]

I was a GM2 on CG-55

[@timtimtimmay4654]

@@biggusnikus6280 I miss being on my angry little hornet of a ship. Nothing but a floating middle finger of fuck around and find out lol. I decommissioned the Tico and spent about two days on the Phil Sea (CG-58). Med system let a back injury linger too long and caused permanent nerve damage in my right leg. No more gray ship, no more career. It was fun while it lasted.

[@ericpatten6204]

​@@timtimtimmay4654 Do you have the thing where your thigh is numb and burns all the time

[@timtimtimmay4654]

@@ericpatten6204 At this point, I am three surgeries and 18 years later from the initial injury. I have numbness across the top of my thighs often and weird ghost pains that range from "crawling bug feeling" to "random pinches" and numbness in both legs/feet. My left leg no longer has total control of lifting my foot, and I have a burning sensation that is pretty constant on my left side/rib/back from all the disc issues I've had through the years. 10% VA disability...🤣🤣😰😰 I'm about to lawyer up before I get too bad to work, which my body reminds me may be quite a bit sooner than I would like.

[@Grisbane]

I was stationed on a Tico Class cruiser,... the Tico herself you are missing her 2 mark 32 torpedo launchers (the later variants retained the torpedoes even after they changed to VLS). also, the only modules in DCS a Tico can support for helicopters are the AH-64, UH-1 and maybe the Alligator. MI-24 would be far too large to fit in the hangar and there would be no way for her to safely transport one.

[@bostonrailfan2427]

122 missiles, two 5” guns with modern rangefinders and radars, six torpedoes, plus two MH60s with torpedoes…against 34 ships of varying degrees of armor with zero ability to stop those missiles. that’s not counting the Phalanx systems that would vaporize any launched planes it’s a turkey shoot, they would be destroyed before they could see it then wouldn’t be able to fight back when it got close enough

[@Rachniax]

Could you imagine what would be going through a zero's mind seeing a cruise missile smash the carriers.

[@catthewanderer9229]

Probably the dashboard. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@imapopo2924]

"Huh. I thought crashing stuff into ships was our thing..."

[@someoneinthechat-ko6jz]

Nothing from WW2 could even get within gun range of an Aegis SPY-? system. Your welcome Lead designer(ret) Lockheed Martin (GE) 1984-2000 Sonar Division Liverpool, NY

[@jim2lane]

The answer to the question posited in the title is "Yes". At least in the scenario shown here. Winning the battle does not mean escaping unharmed. Winning the battle would mean stopping the Japanese invasion, which by sinking half of the combatants in the battle group to include the carriers as you did here would be sufficient.

[@xenaguy01]

In the actual WWII battle, the IJN carriers launched ~1/2 their aircraft in a strike targeted at Midway. Then, the other half were held in reserve, loaded out with anti-ship munitions. This scenario set them all at the USN Cruiser immediately. Had there been a 2020's Tico at 1942 Midway, I think the IJN would have been in real trouble.

[@michaelillingworth6433]

These what ifs have a certain amount of interest, but if a modern system like this could go back in time, it would make more sense to just radio Pearl. A system like that with the rest of the American fleet would totally wipe the floor with the Japanese.

[@SWGEZTargetYTAccount]

Also those 5" 54's would lay down flak at an astonishing rate. Assuming we dont have AGIS - they could only use line of site on the guns. The Harpoons would (if we are using site guidance) could take out all of the carriers in 5 min once acquired.

[@Summersong2262]

Yeah they wasted a lot of missiles on the destroyers and cruisers. And I suspect that the missiles would have been more effective against the carriers than modeled, IJN carriers were notoriously glass jawed.

[@killman369547]

Yeah, those 5 inch guns would be devastatingly accurate. ww2 pilots are used to guns like that being wildly inaccurate, a radar aimed 5 inch gun that's as accurate as Simo Hayha would be utterly shocking to them.

[@elvinmadson]

As a Nearly lifelong fan of alternate history , I find these exercises fascinating. Love what you guys are doing!

[@iceberg789]

cool. pls suggest some interesting alternate history media !

[@BxPanda7]

@@iceberg789 There's an anime based on this premise called "Zipang", it's a modern Japanese destroyer (I think ?) that navigates trough a storm during an exercise and somehow time travels back to WW2, and while it might be an anime, it does a good job of being as realistic as possible.

[@iceberg789]

@@BxPanda7 thanks, seen that already. also seen "the final countdown" movie.

[@McLarenMercedes]

To OP Alternate history doesn't mean time-travel. It means some historical events ending differently, not occurring at all or different decisions being made. The only good alternate history is the one from those who know *real history* and therefore portray realistic events. i.e. not scenarios like Elvis Presley never dying and becoming president and building a base on Mars.

[@thedyingmeme6]

​@@McLarenMercedes oddly specific

[@MysterySemicolon]

Shooting down a harpoon in-flight with a deck gun? Riiiiight. Doesn't the Apache also have an over the horizon radar system that they use for target acquisition and pop up attacks? Could that not be linked to the ship for target assessment at least?

[@RickTait]

there is a pretty cool japanese anime called ZIPANG in which a modern destroyer from the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force somehow travels back in time to WWII! it runs for 1 series and is definitely worth checking out -- similar premise to this video!

[@williamclive2706]

Zipang is a good watch. I was planning to get the manga but never got around to it.

[@alexbaxter934]

When the bridge gets destroyed like that this is exactly why they have the CIC to step in and take control of the ship. Only people that have worked in there will understand the love hate relationship with being in a cold blue lit room for hours on end and the CO randomly popping in whenever lol

[@RetiredSailor60]

I agree. I am a retired OS1. I was CIC Watch Officer qualified on USS Wasp LHD 1 2000-03...

[@alexbaxter934]

@@RetiredSailor60 nice I'm a veteran OS2 SAR swimmer that was on the USS Ponce LPD-15 from 2001-2004 took part in Iraqi Freedom with USS Keasarge task group, nice meeting you shipmate!

[@RetiredSailor60]

@@alexbaxter934 Nice to meet you as well Shipmate. I also served on USS Semmes DDG 18 1983-84, USS Cape Cod AD 43 1984-86, USS Kinkaid DD 965 1987-89, USS Whidbey Island LSD 41 1993-96, COMUSNAVCENT Bahrain 1992-93, Fleet Combat Training Center Atlantic Dam Neck Operations Specialist A School instructor twice 1989-92 and 1996-99, and Fleet Information Warfare Center Little Creek Amphibious Base 1999-2000...

[@alexbaxter934]

@@RetiredSailor60 Yeah I grew up in VB right next to dam neck base so when I went to OS "A" school it was nice to be able to go home and see the friends and family.

[@jfinsterwald]

The Ticonderoga is unarmored. Realistically, one or two direct hits with a bomb would likely operationally immobilize the Ticonderoga. The crew at that point would be primarily focused on damage control.

[@zedwpd]

I'm a Mission Crew Commander Air Battle Manager on AWACS. A Fox 1 is a code word for launch of a semi-active radar homing missile such as the AIM-9 Sidewinder.

[@Nr15121]

You mean like an aim 7 sparrow? The sidewinder is a fox 2

[@vapoet]

I think we could say that 2 cruisers would have won. That was a crazy amount of damage it dealt.

[@jean-lucpicard5510]

I would like to think that this engagement happened before the actual Battle of Midway, and the contemporary US fleet to their luck found a very battle-damaged and depleted Japanese force heading back to home waters for repairs. or easy pickings.

[@navytwidget7480]

I served on the USS Princeton (CG-59) as an ET. It was my first combat ship (was on a couple of tenders before) and absolutely love it. When I first walked into CIC I was amazed! Great video!

[@MrWlbblw]

Something people just don't seem to realize is that just the presence of a modern warship in the past like this would be enough to end the war earlier, not only because of it's modern weapons & sensors, but strictly based on the knowledge the crew would have of WWII events in a general sense. The crew would know enough info alone that would entirely change the whole course of the war in the Pacific & Europe. They'd be able to tell the Allies an incredible amount of technical, strategic, & historical knowledge to do an untold amount of damage to the Axis forces & home land of Japan & Germany. As an example, just imagine a modern crew member mentions in 1941 that US subs should form wolf packs, be aggressive, press home attacks, & fix all the torpedo problems now instead of years later in the war. The effect on the Japanese warship fleet & merchant ships would bring Japan to their knees in less than a year. That type of info could easily shorten the war by years with much less losses on the Allies.

[@liquidleopard4495]

Make that missile cruiser the flagship of a task force, and that task force would be practically invincible. After the first battle, the Japanese would start doing things differently and historic knowledge wouldn't help as much, but the cruiser's radar would still give the Allied task force a huge advantage in finding and hitting the enemy.

[@MrWlbblw]

@@liquidleopard4495 not to mention her AAW battery of Standards could also be used in surface to surface mode at extremely long ranges & pepper enemy ships with Mach 2+ missiles, Harpoons closer in. Combined with a task force like you mentioned- They'd clean up the Japanese fleet in a few months.

[@budgieboi8979]

Can't wait to watch yet another amazing video! Hope you get well soon Cap :)

[@sonimbetterthanyou]

The radar alone would put the Japanese fleet in severe jeopardy. Midway was nothing but searching and hoping to find one another.

[@edwardmelvin9184]

You forgot that the cruiser's helicopter can be used to extend the range of radar coverage. It can also be used for mid course guidance of some missiles. Therefore, the cruiser could initiate a missile stroke from over the horizon. Additionally, the advanced sensors And ECM abilities of a modern US cruiser would render the electronics and communications of the Japanese useless.

[@edwardwood6532]

Montymayor has the best and a very entertaining breakdown of how the US won Midway and how it could have gone with other way.

[@samael335]

Here are 2 other similar scenarios for you to try out: There's an anime from the early 2000s named "Zipang" about a modern (relatively speaking) JMSDF destroyer en route to a joint naval exercise with the USN that gets sent back in time to the Battle of Midway. Also the 1980s movie "The Final Countdown" where the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz gets sent back in time to Pearl Harbor the day before the attack by Japan in 1941. F-14s vs Zeros

[@redslate]

​@This Space For Rent It's likely influenced in part by real-world naval disappearances (particularly in the Bermuda Triangle) that are sometimes rediscovered _years_ later. One's imagination then fills in the blank as to how to account for the 'lost time.'

[@thevoiceofreason8240]

@@thisspaceforrent5737 Hulk vs Superman. Starship Enterprise vs Death Star. Tyson at his prime vs Ali at his prime. Tiger Woods vs Jack Daniels[hic]. The list goes on and on.

[@DarthAverage]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Yamato was not part of the Kido Butai - she was following with her escorting force about 200nm behind the carriers. She was too far back to have made a difference in the battle.

[@CMDRSweeper]

The camera angle around 27 to 28 minutes in was great! Seeing the ship fire and watching the impacts on the Warbirds was great! Cap is starting to get really good with picking the good camera angles for us the valued Viewingtons :D

[@ca3na2]

Watch or read Zipang anime or manga and you'll have the answer

[@jefforyrichardson9479]

The one problem I have with this scenario is that it allows all four carriers to launch attacks against the cruiser. If you recall the events of the battle, three of the IJN carriers were destroyed with their entire air wings on the deck while re-arming/re-fueling to take on the USN carriers. They should play no part at all. Only ONE IJN carrier should remain for the cruiser to worry about.

[@inventor121]

Even still the Tico would likely run out of missiles. Additionally who would have sunk the 3 carriers? Assuming it is the cruiser itself it would need at least 3 missiles to have done so, but unless they were the Harpoons it's likely the ships would need more than 1 missile to hit. Even with one heavy carrier the Tico would likely run out of missiles, there's 57 ships and 10 submarines in the Japanese fleet and probably even with one of the large carriers that's likely about 60 aircraft, they also had 2 smaller carriers with around 20 aircraft each. Using a typical loadout the 8 tomahawk land attack cruise missiles would be rather useless. The 6 ASROCs would be able to take out 6 of the 10 IJN submarines still leaving 4 submarines on the prowl. As for the air wing the 12 ESSMs would be used to target them followed by the 56 SM-2MRs downing 68 aircraft before they would be able to see the carrier, leaving the rest to point defence. At this point the Tico would have around 15 SM missiles of varying types and 5 Harpoons (assuming 3 were used to knock out the heavy carriers before hand) for a total of 20 missiles. Not enough missiles to sink every ship. Even assuming ALL the missiles that have a surface to surface capability were used against the fleet itself (and none against aircraft, leaving the Tico in a potentially dangerous situation) it will likely take 2 hits from an SM-2 to sink a ship and multiple from an ESSM. Assuming 2 hits on average to sink a ship from an SM-2, 3 hits from an ESSM, and 1 hit from anything else. That's 29 ships using the SM-2MR and ER, 4 from the ESSMs, 20 from the SM-3, SM-6, and Harpoon we get a total of 53 ships sunk and not quite enough torpedoes for those submarines. There simply isn't enough ordnance on board to take on their entire fleet. You'd leave a hell of a dent, but you won't be winning the battle.

[@reporttam]

Is there a mod in DCS for the upgrades Iowa class battleships that were used in the Iraq war? THAT would be awesome to watch.

[@totalnerd5674]

They made one themselves, but I don't think it would perform any better than the Tico here, because it would still struggle to hit more than 20% of its shots. And the Zeros would probably swamp it before it even reaches firing distance. Although, maybe if you had a surface action group with the modernized Iowa plus 2 Oliver Hazard Perry frigates for anti air/ship, maybe that would work...

[@grimreapers]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZquwfZmldpmCgtU

[@hphp31416]

@@totalnerd5674 it had tomahawks, possible anti ship version with 1200 nm range

[@JefferyAClark]

A single Iowa? Not much different than if it were the WW2 version, and probably less survivable from an anti-air perspective, since a lot of the dual-purpose 5" guns were removed to put in the box launchers. Now a modernized Iowa supported by the WW2-era battle groups and task forces at Midway... yeah, that could make some difference.

[@donkeysunited]

@@JefferyAClark I suspect the point is that its Tomahawks would have destroyed the carriers before they could launch their aircraft. If the Iowa got attacked by 300 Zeros, it'd be screwed.

[@Chris03121957]

Was waiting for one of 'The Beautiful Humans' to attempt landing on the flight deck of one of the carriers. Hand to hand boys! :) Love this stuff.

[@Desertrat87]

I think the biggest takeaway here is that it's simply a matter of ordinance here. Just not enough missiles to sink all the ships and shoot down all the fighters. But I do find it realistic that with that many fighters coming at her, at least a couple might get through. Even though those are old WW2 bombs, the modern ship would be very lightly protected in terms of armor, and so those bombs would definitely hurt if they managed to hit her. Also, you said at one point in the video that the harpoons could not damage Yamato. I don't think that's actually true. I'm not sure that they would sink Yamato. Maybe if all 8 managed to actually hit it's possible they could sink it. However, even one would do significant damage. That's one reason modern ships don't bother to carry heavy armor. It simply can't hold up to larger, modern anti-ship missiles very well, and so it's just dead weight. Also, I feel like the shoot-down of a missile in flight by the battleship, while not entirely impossible, would have required an incredibly lucky shot by the manually aimed and fired AA guns, seeing as the gunners would never have trained to hit something moving that fast.

[@kenburroughs4410]

Just an observation the Yamato was not involved in the actual battle it was 600 miles away with Yamamoto's battleship group.

[@Doc0281]

This is amazing! When the ESSM's starting going off, I was hooked. This is my first watch of your channel, but boy do I hope there's more of this!

[@CountAdolfo]

You technically DID just win the Battle of Midway. What they have left after your attack... couldn't win at Midway

[@time.4004]

Very interesting experiment, really like stuff like this. One question, because I kept looking for it but didn't hear it. What happened to phalanx systems?? As a former Navy Fire Controlman, I believe these would've been indespensable in defending the cruiser. Would love to hear your thoughts

[@welchroberts4038]

Me too, though I did hear fire coming from a phalanx system I thought.

[@Iwillfigureoutanamelater]

Phalanx are also called CIWS (Close In Weapons System), and there were two amidships. They killed quite a few Zeros, but unfortunately they run out of ammo rather quickly in this type of engagement.

[@time.4004]

@@Iwillfigureoutanamelater Thanks, I knew they're were two on board, but wasn't sure if they were in the video.

[@DaveDrawing]

They were used, but referred to as their other name: "Sea Wiz".

[@DaveDrawing]

Sea Wiz, 26:36

[@chuckhood9659]

The real human factor question in your "The Final Cruiser Down" scenario is how many A6Ms would mysteriously blow up before they would withdraw. Separate question, but do the 5" 54s on the CG not work against a/c in DCS? They would be reasonably effective against A6Ms.

[@soulsphere9242]

Yeah I was surprised that the DP guns were not used for anti-air, because for a real engagement they absolutely would be. Those guns are 5" 62s since the cruiser upgrade.

[@chuckhood9659]

@@soulsphere9242 I don't believe the cruisers ever got 5"62s as part of the Cruiser Upgrade or any other upgrade. I even looked at recent photos of some of the few remaining and can't find a photo of one with a 5"62. ROOSEVELT (DDG 80) and later of the DDGs have them, but again, I don't know of any CGs ever getting them.

[@soulsphere9242]

@@chuckhood9659 It was definitely part of the CG Modernisation program, but that program never completed as intended so I am guessing only a few might have received it or maybe none did but unreliable sources like Wikipedia assume it happened. Cowpens and Monterey are two listed as having the Mod 4 62 calibre.

[@analytics8055]

Wait a minute. You're telling me a slow ,zero got through all that and managed to drop a gravity bomb, that just happened to hit a fast moving target? I doubt it.

[@gally979]

I’m 30 seconds into this and I served on the USS Port Royal CG73. I’m excited to see this battle. We were pretty powerful.

[@jvd9202]

Considering the devastation of the Japanese fleet and loss of all aircraft, you must call this a win for the modern cruiser.

[@anarchyandempires5452]

Oh yeah without a doubt, I mean the Japanese imperial Navy just straight up lost its core, I mean hell look at the two remaining carriers that is the definition of catastrophic damage, It's questionable if one of the two is even going to get back to the Homeland and the other is probably going to be on the slips for a year or more, plus the Japanese naval Air arm just got shattered, this single combat action would have shortened the war massively. I mean unlike in the real war, The United States didn't take any carrier casualties, this means that the USN Can straight up go for the jugular. After this battle Japan literally has nothing left to defend itself with.

[@timothyoaks1193]

This video is worth watching just due to the enthusiasm of the Britt narrating the combat.

[@jameswinburn6843]

I was surprised at the attention given to the enemy destroyers. The missiles should have gone first to the carriers. Poor target selection lost the battle.

[@cabriskus4700]

Was just having this talk with my dad last night. He was telling me how three modern destroyers could rival a countries WW11 navy. I don’t know about that but this is impressive

[@GageEakins]

Your dad was right. This video has a lot of flaws. The Cruiser would never even be seen by the Japanese fleet. It had no radar so they had to use recon aircraft to find ships. Those recon planes would get pasted well before they knew anything was happening.

[@9999plato]

@@GageEakins While the ASW suites have improved tremendously the ships would have no acoustic intelligence on the German subs and they would be the true threat. DE subs have and always be extremely quiet, very difficult to detect even with todays tech. add in the noise from other ships to mask them acoustically making passive sonar detection difficult as German diesels were used in subs and E boats making identification difficult and the various propagation paths for sound to travel does not guarantee that the German subs could be detected with active sonar either, at least until the subs came up to torpedo depth and then the surface ship is temporarily on the defensive.

[@GageEakins]

@@9999plato it's possible. However, again they would need to find the ship. Subs in world war II normally found surface vessels either because they were moving in the shipping lanes or because they were within a short distance of other naval vessels. Considering that the ship would need to go nowhere near it's targets in order to hit them, this seems unlikely.

[@jaiclary8423]

Your dad was trolling you. 3 WWII American Destroyers *did* defeat the entire Japanese Navy in a pitched battle. Watch the video "Pretty much the Battle off Samar" for my favorite version of the story.

[@maryrose2676]

@@jaiclary8423 3 actual destroyers and an entire imaginary fleet won that day. If the Japanese knew that there was no imaginary fleet, 3 destroyers would be 3 destroyed ships.

[@andrewobrigewitsh]

yes, it can hit the aircraft carriers before they launch their air planes with missiles. The Japanese don't have model Radar, you can can pretty much unload everything into the aircraft carriers, sink them and run away and it's unlikely they even see you.

[@joeljenkins2618]

Fun idea but so many issues wrong with this. The Ticonderoga doesn’t need AWACS support, it has the MH-60R that is designed to use it surface search radar to transmit targeting information back to the cruiser. The cruiser wouldn’t need to get within 100km of the Japanese fleet before firing Harpoon’s at night directly at the carriers, with mid flight and terminal targeting updates provide by the MH-60’s before the Harpoon’s active radar seeker confirmed it was attacking the designated targets. The Harpoon’s all have selectable terminal attack modes and would be programmed to come in vertically straight into the carriers deck. Once the carriers are either sunk or incapacitated, the remaining fleet would be picked off without the Japanese ever knowing where it was coming from. The two MH-60s firing Penguins, Hellfire’s, launching torpedos from 10kms away. The Ticonderoga could fire SM2/6’s at surface ships, but there’s ASROC and the Ticonderoga’s 5in gun which has a 37km range and precision guided munitions to hit moving targets.

[@RobRoss]

So one more cruiser and you might have had total victory! Interesting battle. I hope you get well soon Cap.

[@HeiligerGrimmnir]

Doesn't the SM6 have a range of like 120 miles? Why are we starting this battle at 40 miles?

[@mysterymayhem7020]

I really enjoy watching what this game is capable of producing. The detail of the Ticonderoga firing their missiles is fantastic. Can we get a final countdown like battle with the Nimitz and F-14's against the Pearl Harbor Japanese Attack Fleet.

[@CriticalThinker78]

That would be dope loved that movie

[@abz5485]

I agree

[@toddrainer6542]

Not even a fight - one flight of AGM-84 armed A-6s.. the job is done.

[@robertdesrosiers2382]

Would there not also be an advantage for a night engagement? The gunships have FLIR or some sort of night engagement capability. The WW2 planes have to attack during the day.

[@BigLobes]

I severed on a Spruance class destroyer. It's essentially the same ship. The cruiser just has a lot more command and control capabilities. One thing you missed (without divulging classified info). Those 5 inch 54s can shoot down cruiser missiles with the 300ish anti air rounds they carry. Those Zeros wouldn't stand a chance inside 10 miles. I actually doubt the C.O. would waste any of his missiles on them. The end result would be the same. Those battleships would survive. The cruiser would have to deploy its helo with mk 45 torpedoes to sink them. The ship has dozens of those so the helo could road until the job is done. It could also load Penguins. Those 45s would sink those battleships. I'm not sure that any other weaponry could make it through the armor belt. The cruiser would be best going to about 50 miles and maintaining distance. It could use one of the 4 Aerosondes they carry to search out the enemy and keep their distance. There are just some things you're simulation can't account for I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️ oh, and there's a camera on top of the mast that can see like 30ish miles in all light spectrums.

[@MrClipster]

There was an old movie called "The Final Countdown", which basically sent a 1980's aircraft carrier back in time right before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. The captain decided to send the entire compliment of jets at the Japanese fleet, only to have everything come back to modern times. This reminded me a lot of that battle.

[@KeljuIvan]

There's also a book series, starting with Weapons of Choice, where a whole modern carrier fleet is dragged to WWII.

[@hijiriyukari]

ZIPANG also comes in mind in this scenario

[@ABW941]

​@@hijiriyukari And there is no decent translation of that thing in any of the languages i understand ☹ There are sporadic uploads to some manga sites, but that translation will propably be finished in 2040.

[@ABW941]

I always thought that this was the most stupid course of action possible, win the war but dissappear from history because you changed it.

[@RCAvhstape]

@@ABW941 The captain said it best: he's an officer in the United States Navy, time paradox or not, he's not going to just sit there and let an enemy fleet attack the American base in Hawaii.

[@Dawnbandit1]

US ships carry MH-60Rs, which are equipped with a powerful surface search SAR radar for OTH targeting.

[@LondonSteveLee]

Indeed and they wouldn't be targeting ships that are already obviously out of the fight! Harpoon wouldn't fly past a sodding great carrier hunting for an already half sunk destroyer! - it looks for the largest RADAR return and aims for the centre of it (or where it predicts the centre of mass will be when it hits.)

[@Dea7hWarran7]

Great video, couple things though: 1 - There's no way to account for the stress the Japanese would be feeling seeing a half dozen helicopters, and 1 lone ship going after their fleet. 2 - Idk if it was AI targeting, but one would think you'd aim first for the carriers, to spoil the flight decks. Had that happened, there would've been an exponentially lower number of planes flying against the cruiser. 3 - The CIWS systems absolutely could've been targeting the bombs that were being dropped and *potentially* could've saved the ship from taking those initial bombs. 4 - Yeah, not a single ship in the world sails a straight line when attacking another ship. Since the dawn of naval warfare, everyone's tried to evade.

[@thereclaimer2945]

Thanks for these videos cap and all involved. I’ve had Covid myself so I know how it feels. Hope you feel better soon cap. Edit: Also the tyco put up a really good defense against those zeros, I think if there was an arleigh Burke or a second tyco I think the cruiser would’ve survived.

[@Dawnbandit1]

Hell, even if there was an LCS there, it would probably have survived due to the LCS's rapid firing 57mm main gun and SeaRAM.

[@georgesykes394]

​@@Dawnbandit1The LCSs are Crap!

[@Dawnbandit1]

@@georgesykes394 Uninformed opinion.

[@georgesykes394]

@@Dawnbandit1 No it's not an uninformed opinion it's a matter of fact and when I was in the fleet they were garbage. The money wasted should have been gone to overhaul the Oliver Hazard Perry Class and the Tico fleet. The ships are overpriced always breaking down can't perform to design specifications.This is why the Navy is accelerating the decommissioning of these ships some with less 10 year's being in the fleet! The Navy is found out the Hard way the Constellation Class frigate should have been in the fleet for at least a decade. And with the aluminum construction of the LCS good luck taking a anti-ship missile and trying to stay afloat with a small crew trying to perform DC.

[@Dawnbandit1]

@George Sykes It's a good multipurpose vessel that does a role no other ship can do. It able to act as a light logistics vessel and do UNREP, a ultra light helicopter carrier, and as a light amphibious warfare ship

[@emmata98]

28:00 I think turning around the cruiser now would be strategically best (try to save the ship since having dealt maximum damage)

[@christophero55]

Yes, and of course it would have been doing evasive maneuvers to avoid bombs (they thought about that at the end) but this was still good enough for me. :)

[@brijekavervix7340]

Yeah, I think after all the damage it had caused, the US WWII fleet should have no issue mopping up the survivors, so deffs a US victory for me

[@grimreapers]

Yeh I should have taken control earlier on in the match. Hinesight...

[@biscuitninja]

All of this is assuming that the destroyer doesn't carry a Mark 46 asroc torpedo. In which case you'd ripple fire three of those units and then turn around and head out of the engagement area as fast as you can before they detonate. Ps. CWIS are loud as Shiz... Also it feels like the USS Laffey when they were attacked.

[@LuizBarros99]

I think that the cruiser not only ran out of SAMs, but it also ran out of ASMs. Since a single cruiser managed to take out two carriers, I think two cruisers would have done the trick.

[@yournamehere9928]

Even this one cruiser should've been able to take out the fleet had it been armed properly. They nerfed the Tico in several aspects here, such as the fact that they only loaded like 90-ish of the 122 available VLS cells on the Tico, and for whatever reason they still decided to load 8 with SM-3s, which would've been and were useless in the fight. Also, their Tico isn't modeled with Block Va Tomahawks, which are the new anti-ship versions of the Tomahawk, which would've freed a lot of VLS cells for air defense. Instead of having 80 cells occupied for surface warfare, you could instead have those 80 be used for AAW, and have the other 44 filled with Tomahawks, which I think is more than enough to take out the entire fleet.

[@hphp31416]

@@yournamehere9928 i tested 1 AB destroyer with 90 LRASM missiles against russian northen fleet in Command and it worked perfetly

[@cousinjack2841]

'You, as adults, must spawn in one at a time...' Out of all the funnies I have heard on GR, that has to be the funniest, but THEY DID IT! Nice one guys, silly; but nice. Thanks. (Damp is a helicopter master)

[@grimreapers]

Look at them being real adults.

[@dragade101]

I see, realism was definitely left behind with this simulation.

[@Fizwalker]

Interesting scenario, but there is an issue. Neither of the Yamatos were with the 1st Carrier Fleet. They would've been Kongo's. Still interesting to see if a Ticon could take out a Yamato though.

[@stefonschmidt4576]

I'm a 20 year navy veteran. And I hate to point out mistakes but I can't close my eyes to this one. A Ticonderoga class cruiser can only carry 2 SH-60B Seahawk helicopters. These helos have no guns but they can carry two MK 46, Mk 50, or MK 54 torpedoes. Or it can carry four Hellfire or Penguin anti-ship missiles. In this scenario, I'm sure they would have been loaded out with 4 Penguins, which has a range of 18 nautical miles. And of course, there would be NO respawning. To point out something I didn't see anyone else mention... Your scenario started at 0430, which is when Nagumo launched his first strike against Midway. Which means that half of his aircraft would NOT be available to attack the cruiser. Which would greatly enhance the chance the cruiser would be able to avoid any damage. Also, the cruiser would have sent the helos out to ID the individual ships and would therefore use the harpoons, with their larger warheads, only on the carriers. 2 Harpoons per carrier. The anti-ship missiles are designed to hit at the waterline. Two 500 pound warhead at the waterline would probably sink all 4 carries. And obviously, the SM-6's had to problem with the smaller ships. Oh, by the way, a cruiser has two 61 cell vertical launchers. So, 122 missiles, not 80. I think this really favors the cruiser in the final outcome. Oh, and the cruiser, with it's SPY radar would have known exactly where the Japanese fleet was way before 0430, and having sent the helos out to locate the carriers with their IR cameras, would have launched their attack prior to 0430, meaning that the Japanese would have never even launched a single aircraft. BATTLE OVER!!! And yes, having spent the Harpoons on the carriers, the cruiser would no longer have a weapon that could inflict serious damage on the battleships. And even if the Japanese decided to send the battleships after the cruiser, which I doubt after lost their entire fleet, there's no way that a Yamato class battleship would be able to catch the cruiser. The battleships just aren't fast enough. And they wouldn't have the fuel for an extended chase. Clear victory for the Americans!