Group B | Tuscan Warriors - Sanremo 1986

Were the Peugeots really illegal? Or were they just too fast for Lancia over the asphalt stages in the mountains of San Remo.
The Sanremo Rally of was one of the best Group B battles between the Lancia DeltaS4 and Peugeot 205 T16 evo 2 that there had been all season. For three days the two teams battled it out. Until politics stepped in and soured the rally during an already controversial season.

[@eleum1400]

me being born in 1998: "ah yes, this is so nostalgic for me"

[@gothicpagan.666]

Me I'm much,much older, seems like yesterday🤤

[@igorljubas5931]

@@gothicpagan.666 Im born 1980

[@Senna-xi1gr]

I was there to see group B. Absolutely fantastic moment in time for all who witnessed. 👍 cheers.

[@poplaurentiu4148]

This is absolutely awesome (remastered or not) the footage from helicopter really show how fast these monster group-B cars really went in some of the stages.

[@szelesgabor8116]

"La Metro, Mauro, la Metro!" Superb footages and editing!

[@cvtt3194]

Absolutely fantastic, legendary drivers and cars, good video quality, I'm in love with this video. RIP Toivonnen and Cresto, taken from us way too soon.

[@aldogastaldo8700]

Forse il più bel video di gruppo b di tutto you tube!!! Bravissimo continua a farci divertire con i tuoi splendidi video!💪💪💪

[@pixelghostclyde8717]

I never realized, before coming across this video, just how much of the Sanremo rally was raced in Tuscany rather than Liguria...

[@tony9416]

Because in 1979 was the debut of using the Maremma Landscape throw Chianti, Senese’s and Grosseto’s country, also Arezzo in 1979 had many SS for the Sanremo Rally as the RAC rally, because using the mix of tarmac and gravel stages was a good combine with a great success, the organization of the rally decided to continue with these trend until 1996. From 1997 Sanremo Rally returned to the origins of the rally with only tarmac stages. In many edition used also many roads of Piemonte and in the north of Tuscany only for tarmac stages.

[@Quinlan156]

Facevano veramente spavento su quegli sterrati. Che piloti, che macchine, irripetibili! Radicofani, Chiusdino, Mocaiana, quante salsicce e vino, quanta nostalgia per i rally che furono...

[@1973Hierro]

C’ero, PS di Anqua

[@cmc6040]

Thank you for this Marv, absolutely sensational from start to finish. I'd love if you did one on the Lombard RAC, especially 1985. I was 13 at the time and completely enthralled by that rally. Seeing the S4 and Metro for the first time was amazing. DSG gearbox in Rohls S1, the sound was rediculous, the gear changes instant. And Henry won. I'd followed him for years as he'd done rally's in Ireland and the UK in Opel's (both ascona and manta) and a Porsche 911. Incredible driver and a lovely man who spoke with a starstruck child on more than one occasion when he didn't have to. Thanks again, for stimulating great memories and producing such brilliant documentary work. 👍🙂

[@Marvdogger2]

Thank you. I had nt thought about doing a video on the 85 RAC but there’s enough footage to do one so you never know in the future.

[@cmc6040]

@@Marvdogger2 Fingers crossed! 👍

[@TheRUBrally]

oh yes! What a super video, thanks a lot Marv I love the pure engine sounds clips mixed with a little bit of explanations! I think it's the perfect combo

[@robytm]

12:55 "dai Miky dioporco!!"

[@PistoKTM]

Avrei detto la stessa identica cosa 😂

[@pablogonzalez777]

This is a Master piece !!!!

[@paveloliva3098]

These were the Masters of wheel, perfect shots,perfect twisty stages,remarkable 👍

[@forcedinduction2918]

Marv the group b movie master once again rocking horse footage nice to hear the cars from the helicopter for a change

[@vaiossey]

Con todas esas imagenes de epoca impecablemente editadas, excelnete video con el texto que va apareciendo crea un ritmo que genera tension y lo hace muy interesante.

[@pabloeing1]

One of the best GR:B videos of the history ¡¡¡.....awesome job ¡¡¡¡

[@Marvdogger2]

Thank you. That's very kind.

[@TheCYBERFUNK]

This video is simply art. Thank you as always Marv

[@BerniWan]

Fantastic!!! one of the best video of Group B ever. Thanks!

[@jasonmcmillan4373]

Such amazing historical footage.

[@klasseact6663]

I was 16 yrs old then but sadly "barely" heard of Groupe B. Even if I had, noone carried coverage of it here in the States😔

[@NathanMcCabe88]

Plenty on here though, check out "VHS rallies" on here, he's got some brilliant footage!!! Or check out the people I'm subscribed too 🙂

[@pablotoes1925]

Incroyable , merci beaucoup !

[@SPORTEC550]

Amazing video thank you so much !

[@jackiechan8840]

37 years ago. Holy shit. Very cool.

[@doris.from.pinner]

Great images, a nicely produced video with some good editing. Thank you. Subbed.

[@Marvdogger2]

Thanks for the sub Doris.

[@doris.from.pinner]

@@Marvdogger2 my pleasure dear!

[@zcavaleiro]

Thanks for all Group B love!

[@alessandroaureli2377]

Great work... as usual!!!

[@schrauberkoenig83]

Thanks for Upload 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽

[@Chris-nm1jr]

Thank you!!! Where did you get this stuff?! 😍🤩🥰

[@Joop.23-2-63]

Damn, again, what a footage.......👌

[@fireabend_1226]

beautiful pictures

[@martingomez9338]

I could enjoy those BEASTS in Argentina Rally 86... Since that I got totally crazy for Wrc. Gr B was something that I will never can forget. The Wrc cars today are very fast, and much more easy and safely to drive, because has 30 years of improvements and advanced tecno, but Gr B was different and unique !! ❤️💪👏👏👏

[@appennino71]

Grazie 🙏

[@TheVentour79]

After Portugal tragedy that year, listen Fiorio in Corsica was the most disgusting human being i ever know. Being smart and take advantage of the rules is one thing, but put your driver when under medication on a round like Tour de Corsé is insane. No doctor should let a team manager to have final word.. glad that it changed. EVEN if today Henry and Cresto accident remembers to some all power and the extreme of Gr. B, only few remember is how sick Henry Toivonen was. Even on KZbin videos you can tell. It could not be the cause to the tragedy, but only a person like Fiorio would send a driver and his Co driver to such a demanding round when the driver is sweating on fever. He was capable of anything to take advantage. Like putting a driver running slow on Acropolis in front of Mikkola, so the Audi driver would run under the dust and loosing lot of time. Not to mention some choices on Gr. A era, even if the Lancia was without proper opposition for 2 or 3 years. Great video, thanks.

[@micg.4840]

Disgusting was Jean Todt that let continue Saby in Corsica race and win after the poor Henry and Sergio passed away, when all remainig Lancias leaved the race. By the way, Henry was 1st, Biasion 3rd and Alen 5th. On Sanremo, another masterpiece: to let Peugeot win FIA (in Paris), fully cancelled the Sanremo results. You can see who Was leading before the disqualification. Sum up and you can see how Peugeot won. Regarding the group A: they won 6 manufacturers titles in a row. Several tried but failed. I won't mention what they won with the stratos, fulvia and 037 (and 131).

[@carlosmagnus717]

In this rally it was clearly seen that the Italians were afraid of losing. That is why they disqualified the Peugeots. These alleged irregularities in the side skirts of the underbody were at the time of the rally verifications. Why weren't they banned at that time? Besides, they had already been used in previous rallies without any problem. They got nervous when they saw that Peugeot were leading the rally. Peugeot won the Constructors' and Drivers' World Championship that season because technically they were more manageable cars, and from the second half of the 86 season the car had won, as you well say, in terms of power and effectiveness. Lancia on the other hand had problems with the power delivery with the double supercharging that made the engine very rough, which made the car very difficult to drive at the limit. I'm not saying it, the pilots who drove them said it: Alen, Biasion, Kankkunen himself, who somehow also drove the Delta S4 and was able to make a comparison between both. Surely this was one of the causes of the unfortunate Toivonen accident in Corsica

[@Marvdogger2]

Skirts were banned after Corsica (86) but Peugeot used its car without any changes on the next four rounds without any trouble. For the Italian scrutineers to pass the cars as legal at the start of the rally and then three days later say they are illegal was just wrong and everyone knew it. Lancia just wanted to win its home event no matter what. It’s worth noting that at the Rallye Citta di Messina a few weeks later. Zanussi was told he would not be allowed to start if his 205 T16 evo 2 was fitted with the controversial strakes / skirts. He removed them and still went on to win the rally ahead of Dario Cerrato in a works Lancia Delta S4. The FISA did act against the Italians. After the World Championship title changed hands on the 18th of December. Sanremo Rally Director, Adolpho Rava, and his scrutineers had their licences suspended.

[@micg.4840]

Sure. In Corsica instead was a Wimbledon fair play. Saby and the Peugeot won with only 10 car at the arrival and two men burned alive the day before. And the Lancia team retired from the rally despite holding leading positions. And Sanremo? Well, in order to let Peugeot win the title, the FIA (in Paris) cancelled the Sanremo. Why? Because, if the frozen the result to the night before the disqualification, Lancia had 3 cars in the first 4 positions. With Henry still alive, the S4 would have destroyed the T16. See how he won in Montecarlo and how was leading in Corsica. These are facts, not opinions.

[@carlosmagnus717]

@@micg.4840 Toivonen would have won, because he was the best driver at the moment. But the Lancia was quite an undriveable car on the edge. You have never stopped to think that possibly with Peugeot Toivonen he would not have had the accident that he unfortunately had and that his victories would have been even easier, precisely because it was easier to drive, it was not only a matter of powerful (that the Peugeot had it as well), if not Audi would have won, don't you think... (600 CV with almost 400 cm3 more too and more weight as well) Then there's the matter of the grueling rally madness that was Corcega with stages of up to 83 kms. which took more than 1 hour to travel, with cars so stressful to drive (specially S4). Peugeot in second half 86 season was going like a missile (540 CV in Sanremo and 530 CV in RAC), with advantage besides of being more manageable and agile (the real reason) because it had a more progressive engine and in slow areas it was faster (said it Kankkunen, who has tested both cars, not me). Lancia was more difficult to drive, which is why it lost in Sweden, in Acropolis, in New Zealand, in 1000 lakes, and RAC that year with a team of drivers of a very similar level, Alen and Biasion against Salonen and Kankkunen. Cheater Mr. Fiorio, who was the one who orchestrated that farce of disqualification of Peugeot team. The disqualification of having been should have happened in the scrutineering, not in the middle of the rally. Another example of Mr. Fiorio's tricks was that to stop the enemy he was able to put a slow car before the rival so that with the dust it would reduce visibility. You have another example in the Italian Championship where Zanussi's Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 (without side skirts) won clearly to Cerrato's Delta S4. 1986 World Rally Championship (Pilots and Constructors) and Italian Championship are not opinions, not even facts, they are RESULTS.

[@micg.4840]

@@carlosmagnus717 Again: was fair play what did Peugeot in Corsica? Winning a rally after the day that your competitor was killed in a accident? Again: if Peugeot was right, why the FIA did not take the the ranking before the disqualification? Because FIA was based in Paris and Jean Marie Balestre was French. The 205 was easier to handle because had several years of development. Just bullshit that the engine of the S4 was problematic. The volumetric plus the turbo gave the advantage of having an engine that had no turbo lags. It was so developed for that time, the VW took the same concept of superchanging and turbocharging together for a new engine on the Golf in 2005. In Sweden Toivonen was leading when he broke a valve. In Acropolis Biason arrived second after losing 4 minutes in the first stage (puncture) In 1000 Lakes Alen came third after an accident when he was leading. Henri was leading in Corsica with 3 minutes advantage on Saby. Go back and study.

[@carlosmagnus717]

@@micg.4840 Results, results! I only know that in 2nd half 1986 season Peugeot won 4 rallies and Lancia 2. In Sanremo Peugeots was leading the rally and were suddenly disqualified in that moment, curious... Behind was cheater Mr. Fiorio... Besides, Markku Alen always has told that this decision was a mistake. Only in Italia Peugeots were illegals, curious...

[@brencole7092]

Beautiful movie.

[@venturinix]

Bellissimo video immagini inedite...

[@kayzenl7911]

these peugeot looks amazing

[@ldowling2714]

Just remember, these gods who drove these beasts done 5 day and nights not like today, the teams behind them were awesome, best era ever and most if not all cars came home

[@Marvdogger2]

Drivers today complain when there are too many night stages.

[@ldowling2714]

Best rally era ever, nothing has come close since

[@sitioquintadaluz]

BRUTAL ,TOP TOP TOP 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 Responder

[@Daytona43]

Good Video! Good work - "with my clips".✌✌ Greetings from Austria. God save the group B

[@Marvdogger2]

Thank you so much. Best wishes and thanks for capturing them.

[@aredcape1830]

17:23 holy ssshit that acceleration is unbelievable!

[@micg.4840]

Nice to see people complaining about fiorio behaviour when Peugeot won the title after: 1) winning the tour the corse 86 alone (with Saby), after all Lancia, in the lead, retired. 2) getting Sanremo results cancelled, because, freezing the result to the night before the disqualification, would have meant 3 Lancia in the first 4 positions. Why? Because the FIA was based in Paris and was led by the French Jean Marie Balestre, the same guy who fully ignored the requests to shorten the tour the corse. Henry complained in his last interview of the length of the rally. Today causes of the Toivonen crash are unknown and blaiming Fiorio for the accident is just a shitstorm. Few years later, Jean Marie Balestre became also known in F1 for disqualifying Senna at Suzuka 89. A Very nice piece of Motorsport. French instead liked a lot that Lancia winning. They even made an accident with the poor Toivonen in the Montecarlo 86, to take him out. Conclusion: before blaiming Fiorio, Lancia and the Italians, have a look of what happened. These are facts not opinions.

[@rambaldomelandri9011]

Bla bla bla

[@Steven4cr]

What happened to the video "Henri Toivonen a morte"??????

[@Marvdogger2]

It’s down for the time being. It will be back.

[@followtheciaence]

Is there any footage of the Chuisdino stage from 86? Chuisdino is the town with the famous hairpin.

[@Marvdogger2]

I’ve never seen any footage or photos from Chuisdino in 1986. Which makes me wonder if they bypassed it that year because of crowd control.

[@PistoKTM]

Forse nell' 86 non ci sono passati??? Sarebbe bello vedere una mappa con i tracciati delle varie edizioni del Sanremo, trasferimenti compresi...

[@tricktrackschabernack]

Walther sagte einmal: Die bei Lancia sind alle verrückt, die wechseln dir die Reifen auf der Stage. Und ein Getriebe bauen die in 20 Minuten aus und ein. Als er zu Audi ging und fragte, wie schnell ihr Getriebe umgebaut ist, sagten sie: unser Getriebe geht nicht kaputt. Einmal haben sie die ganze Nacht geschraubt😂

[@dusankocisevic6823]

Man, the subtitle letters ARE TOO SMALL. I’m gettin’ old🤣🤣 San Remo ‘86. FINALMENTE..🙏🙏

[@losFondos]

gREAT MONTAGE AS ALWAY! Where are all other cars? why only Lancia, Pegeut and AR?

[@tomlepski8306]

Wow! What an era this was! Glad I watched it all live as an adult. Lancia's win on that San Remo was hollow and political, glad the FIA reversed that sily win at the end of the year restoring Peugeot as the rightful champions.

[@Marvdogger2]

Amazing.

[@marciocarvalho8975]

Meu último comentário, O lancia não a Lancia um carro é um carro não uma carra! Uma beleza de ver o 037!

[@doubled1978]

I remember at the time the rumour was that Peugeot had 600bhp available for San Remo..

[@Marvdogger2]

Correct, Steve Ryder in his commentary said there were rumours of 600bhp. The late rally journalist and author Martin Holmes wrote in his review of the event that they were running around 540bhp so I am going with that.

[@doubled1978]

@@Marvdogger2 yeah, there is so much wild speculation by fans and under estimation by the teams themselves on Group B power outputs, it’s difficult to know what the real figures were. They probably varied from event to event and stage to stage in truth and It may be that Peugeot did have 600bhp available, but ran at 540bhp boost, who knows. I met Mikkola a few times during the 80’s and once when he was driving for Mazda I spoke with him at RAC scrutineering in ‘88 and I did ask him about the S1 power, he smiled, said a number and laughed. It was plenty if he wasn’t having me on. I was only a teenager so easily impressed I guess. The Peugeot and Lancia looked towards the end of ‘86 like they had more on tap, Alen’s Olympus car certainly ran more boost/power and I saw a quote from him somewhere saying 650bhp for that event.

[@Marvdogger2]

@@doubled1978 Audi as we all know had the most powerful engine in rallying at the time with around 550bhp. Which is another reason why I don't believe Peugeot would have had 600bhp at Sanremo. At pikes Peak in 1987 Audi had around 600bhp which is where I'm sure some confusion arises as to there power level in WRC with people hearing the 600 and getting mixed up. The December 1986 edition of Autosport in its review of the Olympus says Alen had a special engine with 600bhp for the event but i've read other reviews and they have made mention of this? Its completely viable that he did have extra power since it was the last ever Group B rally and Lancia wanted Markku to win so he could be world champion. I am always slightly wary when I hear super high power figures from Group B on the internet. I trust a lot more what was written in magazines and books from the times by Journalists and authors who were around the cars and the teams at the time for years.

[@doubled1978]

@@Marvdogger2 I agree, I suspect most of these figures are inflated to some degree, but they could also be the full boost settings which were probably never used on rallies given the running hours a rally engine has to be used form and they didn’t have road maps as now, they just had a boost dial! The Pikes Peak thing is probably true and why people think the WRC cars ran that power, but I have heard from someone that I trust that the 600bhp Pikes Peak figure, was an at altitude figure. Sea Level output was much more. It does sort of stack up as the engine went on to be used in the 90 IMSA Quattro, and that was quoted at 720bhp in race trim, more in qualifying. The Pikes Peak motor only had to run for just over 10 minutes, so they could afford to wring it out more I suppose. Anyway, we will likely never really know, and I really appreciate the videos you put out as they footage is fabulous. The heli tracking shots of the S4 in San Remo, is some of the best motorsport footage I have ever seen, sensational.

[@laurlaur5230]

Just keep in mind that T 16 used in Pike's Peak in 87 and in Rallycross few years after had 600 hp and more;

[@user-gj4wt4io6w]

Всетаки в 80-х было НАСТОЯЩЕЕ РАЛЛИ !!! а сейчас неначто смотреть! Извините если кого обидел.

[@toivonencresto]

Lancia already was on 1.9 bar at Tour de Corse

[@HeavenlyWarrior]

What happened to Audi? The speed of those cars are incredible. They put todays rally to shame.

[@Marvdogger2]

Audi withdrew from rallying in May that year.

[@HeavenlyWarrior]

@@Marvdogger2 Ok, thanks.

[@martingomez9338]

Monsters Engine sound 28:56 enjoy..!! 👂❤️👏👏👏

[@marciocarvalho8975]

Se a FIA permite tudo as marcas fazem tudo e mais alguma coisa. A Lancia criou carros monstruosos ainda hoje vejo os e penso que monstros! O 037 comia o pequeno almoço e tinha o dia ganho

[@awesomeduder]

The big what-if for me: did Fiorio really have aero skirts ready to fit ro rhe S4s if the organisers had called his bluff?

[@Marvdogger2]

He did. I have a photo with them fitted.

[@awesomeduder]

@@Marvdogger2 Amazing.

[@cougar231000]

13:38 Back then they couldn't drift in hairpin turns, i wonder if it's because of weaker handbreaks or non-manageable torque...

[@Marvdogger2]

The center diff did not unlock. If they used the handbrake it would lock all four wheels.

[@emmebi2825]

Niente è come una Lancia S4 che esce da un tornante e va via in accelerazione. Niente del motorsport è paragonabile! 12:52

[@seb6603]

Rallye Sanremo is in Liguria, not in Tuscany

[@Marvdogger2]

The gravel stages are in Tuscany.

[@seb6603]

@@Marvdogger2 Thank you

[@rambaldomelandri9011]

Sanremo was in Liguria, Piemonte, Tuscany and Umbria.

[@marciocarvalho8975]

Coitados dos Peugeot se não fosee um dos melhores pilotos de sempre (Ari Vatannem) nunca teriam vitórias!

[@sebastianprato5768]

Peugeot 85/86 ❤

[@fetusofetuso2122]

1986 was a bad year for Rally all over.

[@wendellfugate4225]

Nothing was illegal or against the official rules the Peugeot cars had fitted and it was Lancia's unpleasant treachery not that their cars or drivers were faster. Not a victory to be proud of. Group B Rally the greatest form of 4 wheel motorsport in human history tainted by the vile machinations of a weasel.

[@gajiraanorimaki]

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