The Great Marvel Rivals Debate feat. Flats, Necros, Eskay & Bogur

[@GroupUp]

Explanation of the podcast's state and future at 2:20:40. This episode was recorded on 06th Jan 2025. Podcast links below! Please check out the hellofresh integration via this link link.streamelements.com/hellofresh_svb and/or use this code at checkout for 10 free meals [Code: POGHF146387]. It would be the equivalent of gifting me roughly 50 subs on Twitch! Another great way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-rivals-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@controlfreak2112]

necros i saw your new wolverine tech.Awesome sauce

[@mortystraphouse5077]

ow2 is dead. 5v5 was always bad

[@Manic44]

Flats: I'm not saying make a streamer mode Devs: too late

[@shaheedroylance]

Blizzard 2 yrs later: we're considering it

[@booobface]

@@shaheedroylance we’ve considered it, we’ll give you something and then improve on it later

[@rudyramirez125]

Go back 3 years, the only input Flat's has in any podcast discussion is "DROPS and STREAMER MODE." Bro, we get you're about the bag, but stop acting so poor about it. You're not hurting, lol.

[@lostmycat5671]

​@@rudyramirez125I mean I get the bag part for drops but streamer mode has nothing to do with that

[@shaheedroylance]

@@rudyramirez125 you ain't lying.. & he belittles people that mention it. Let alone condescending to his own chat.. I stopped watching bc it was getting hard to watch ngl

[@rpglover101]

Rivals having so many heroes should really help with diversifying casual metas. Team Ups can be used to make a soft "role lock" by encouraging high usage of certain heros in certain archetypes.

[@batofkrypton9765]

Exactly this. Thanks for this I was saying this too

[@ihatecheese15615]

fr niggas are just now realizing how cool they are

[@NyeoniOni]

Exactly what my thought was on the “15% bonus” applied to certain heroes that are anchors for a team-up. They probably did that to incentivize player to choose the team anchors, which would then allow for more teamups to be active. I don’t think a perpetual boost all season is the best way to go about it, but I see what they were going for

[@rfewer]

True but I wish there wasn’t twice as much dps as the other roles

[@FieldAgent-D]

Ya know I hadn't thought about it from that approach! That's actually a point that makes a lot of sense

[@AkilTheAwesome]

10:55 when Bogur said attractive characters is 100% a factor. He's right. They all look great. And it's 3rd person.

[@gooeybowser9332]

Unironically, the fact that you can look at your character’s ass in game is like a huge factor. That and being able to get a better look at your own skin, than just the gun.

[@AngrySecs]

Me playing Magik no matter what and having a blast doing it

[@kunkudunk1133]

For sure, the third person view was weird to adjust to at first but seeing the models, especially with skins, is super nice.

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

Depends who you are I guess. Eskay asked for more gay characters, but MR already has gay characters in the game, but you'd never know it because they're designed to look like straight characters.

[@diehardsphinx]

@@user-et3xn2jm1u I mean. most gay people don't look different from straight people lmao and it's never wrong to ask for more representation, just because there are a few queer characters doesn't mean there can't be more

[@insomniaddictesp]

1:09:08 honestly, hero bans are fun. They add a layer of strategy and give people something to think and talk about. OW2 lobbies is 40 seconds of no one talking about anything and smashing the room. It’s stupid and not fun.

[@mickeyboy90]

My favourite part of hero bans is that the meta can never just be the same 6 characters mirrored. Even if there are 4-5 hard meta characters every single game will have 0-4 of them banned so every game will be quite different.

[@I.want.toji.in.me.oml.ughhhhh]

@@mickeyboy90it also crates multiple “metas” because of the constantly rotating hero pools. It also balances for high ranks since “metas” don’t affect low ranks to the same degree as high ranks.

[@exray0]

Too bad 97% of players don’t have access to bans.

[@SeksyBananaPants]

Well to be fair its the top 3 percent that grind ranked the hardest ​@exray0

[@PewPewShootEmUp]

​@@exray0 i think they should move em down to plat or gold personally becsuse they actually are very healthy fo this game

[@JJ-rp3ny]

Necros playing MR in the background not even paying attention T.T

[@ccaesers]

bro said he really loves the game and i showing it 😂

[@joshuabarnes1486]

1:24:00 necros has a point. Toxic positivity doesn't fix a game, innovation and the passion/resources to follow through are. As far as resources go I'm sure that's not Team4s fault. But the passives? The ungodly ram nerf (removing shield penetration)? WIDOW STILL UNTOUCHED? They're just not good at their jobs, passionate or not. Or at least whatever team(s) is in charge of buffs/nerfs/reworks is really bad. I'm tired of infantilizing grown ass men because they can't figure out how to balance a game. If Wendy's started slathering everything in mustard and stopped frying fries I wouldn't go anymore. Obviously game balance is more difficult, but it's just like flats said; we were told it was impossible, and now we see that it's not only possible, but it works. Maybe they're not missing passion, but they're missing something. It's inexcusable how poorly handled OW1&2 were/are. I mean we get the 6v6 test after 2 years at the same time as your first real competitor coming out in the last 8 years? But don't worry, I can't stay mad at a small indie company, the real underdogs, Blizzard.

[@nailinthefashion]

Competency. They can't know what they can't imagine, and their capacity to make bold choices is lacking so... it doesn't matter how long we wait, OW will just be kinda janky cuz they are lol

[@LordNotSavior]

All of my money is on management stifling the devs, as has been the case for a long ass time. I genuinely do not blame the devs(that much, they still are part of the problem) and put most of the blame squarely on the shoulders of the stupid ass leadership. There's tons of shit they say they WANT to do behind closed doors, but they're literally not allowed to do it soley because someone above them said no; despite said idea potentially being the thing that breathes new life into the game.

[@bed-bugg]

I think a lot of it comes down to management and it's just my opinion but it seems like Aaron Keller is starting to feel the effects of what previous Devs did with OW which is that it doesn't really matter what ideas or plans you have but what will ultimately be most profitable and marketable. Only recently has the team been opening up more to taking on risks and I think a big part of that might be Aaron and wanting to listen to the community. Similarly with profit making -I couldn't believe there were three free Winter skins and I almost guarantee you that was entirely because of Marvel Rivals coming out. Had it been released at any other time that Widow skin alone would've been $20+.

[@nailinthefashion]

@bed-bugg Jeff was super traditional & probably was the only thing keeping them from the shop overhaul. Now, Aaaron is plugging all the holes & scrambling. Its really apparent to me, anyway.

[@Xiatter]

Ram got his shield penetration back at least, iirc.

[@ArchieCarnall]

I think we’re all forgetting that Overwatch forced role queue because of GOATS. It was nothing to do with nobody flex picking. They couldn’t balance Brig, so we got role queue. They couldn’t balance double shields, so we got 5v5. These issues could’ve been addressed with hero bans, but instead of that they let a car decide what hero was banned, and then took extreme measures and ruined their games’ enjoyability, playability, and survivability.

[@rizaadon]

Yup!

[@rizaadon]

100% facts

[@argonaut502]

5v5 was because tanks are scarce nothing to do with double shield. Double shield lasted so long because they shifted all priority into OW2 so they couldn't rework characters.

[@matthewbrears2129]

5v5 role queue is bad because if another role is letting the team down, you can’t switch to change to address it. In Rivals, you can ALWAYS change role to impact the game if something is lacking

[@iminumst7827]

It's also interesting how a lot of things Overwatch couldn't balance, Rivals does. Compare: - Mercy Mass Rez to Warlock Mass Rez - Bastion Turret to Punisher Turret - Symmetra Shield Generator to Rocket Armor Generator These are abilities OW team struggled with so much that they deleted them from the game and went through the effort to develop brand new abilities that play it safe. This goes to show how much more advanced the Rivals devs are in game design compared to the Overwatch devs, and I'm sure the Rivals devs actually being good at their own game helps a lot. Anyways back on topic, there's been multiple times in Rivals comp (I am in Diamond) where a player who isn't performing on DPS agrees to switch to healer or tank half-way into the match and we win from it. The freedom to make that choice is so powerful.

[@chloec4009]

1:29:00 Man I'm not even an OW player I'm a fucking Destiny player and Marvel Rivals poached me too EDIT: Eskay is so right we need a Vanguard for the girlies, I'm enjoying Peni but we need a Psylocke or Dagger for the Vanguard. There's rumors that Emma Frost will be a Vanguard and that would be sick.

[@tintopstudios3820]

Hoping for she hulk, Thundra, Betty Ross, Ms. Marvel, Spiral, and well... Big Bertha..

[@shap7296]

emma frost tank would be terrible trust me you don’t want tiny hitbox tanks

[@HBG313]

Girly tank is one of the last things to worry about for rivials

[@316toon]

Storm should have been a Tank : (

[@wasabilover1293]

​@HBG313 idk lots of people that only play girls/certain type of characters would be able to flex into vanguard if one was to come. I generally play fem characters more but i do love my strange/magneto, and certainly wouldn't complain if we got emma frost or something as a new vanguard.

[@nickpritch09]

Marve Rivals is meant to be hectic, crazy, and or unbalanced. It's based off of comics where a child that can talk to squirrels single handedly taken down Dr Doom.

[@paulakroy2635]

It’s not meant to be unbalanced. The devs said they want to have a balanced game at some point

[@nickpritch09]

@ keyword "and or" my friend.. the statement itself doesn't change.

[@Psykroids]

But she did defeatDoom..she barely lifted a finger and Doom literally got beat by her Ultimate. Squirrel girl also beat Galatus and Thanos. It's kinda stupid...

[@5XDA]

@@Psykroids it is stupid

[@benoverman1785]

​@@Psykroidsnot really stupid, in a multiversal continuity such as marvel. There's bound to be a character that is born and just destroys it's universe unknowingly so I mean Squirrel girls isn't much of an issue writing wise

[@cameton_youtube]

Congrats on the soak doing well! Thanks for hosting the podcast for so long, good luck with your other stuff

[@IHJello]

I fast forwarded to 2:20:58 Ill always remember your breakthrough in OW content. You're a great great guy SVB. I'll miss your contributions to my ever shrinking community, but I'm also proud of you.

[@colecarmichael5724]

Rip overwatch

[@thesquirtlesquad8446]

Good to hear the Pod again, appreciate all the work you’ve done with it. Hope you find great success in your new journey my man. Happy Holidays, Much Love and wish you the best in this new year!

[@iheartlownotes]

“the devs suck” is almost true about overwatch, we’ve seen enough out of blizzard the last 2 years to prove it’s almost entirely been a leadership issue

[@DriplessShrimp]

Not just leadership

[@iheartlownotes]

@ current ow devs love the game and want it to succeed, really is leadership my friend

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@iheartlownotes Nah they just communicate better but still balance horribly. Its a job they pretend to love the game. Its pretty common knowledge they dont offer good money for game dev with Blizz compared to other companies.

[@iheartlownotes]

@ finish this video before you continue to foot in mouth

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@iheartlownotes dont need to watch the video to know the direction the devs are taking the game

[@Mr-atom55]

9:45 deadlock is PC only, you have to be invited to play and you could only play at certain hours. That's why it fell off

[@beanjuice6012]

Its still in alpha. Expect to see its resurgence when it releases.

[@slayer5089]

And i hope valve will stop them stupid idea of releasing them game exclusively on pc ​@beanjuice6012

[@usaballplayr5]

Yepppp. Ive been wanting to try it for months and never could. Now i dont really care at this point cuz rivals is bomb af

[@synthecysts]

its also not released and hasn't even been officially announced by valve. they're gathering all the data from testers and still building the game.

[@benjamindempsey34]

They also aren’t really even in the same genre. Marvel Rivals is a straight up hero shooter through and through where deadlock is a MOBA played as a third person shooter. Deadlock has a better chance of poaching players from Dota and League than from OW. But Bogar is definitely not wrong about the complexity of Deadlock. It’s going to be hard to gain mass appeal when it’s almost impossible to just hop on and play it casually and still have as much fun as you would playing a game like OW or Rivals. Most people who work a 9-5 just aren’t going to be willing to put in the time you need to be even moderately competent at Deadlock. That’s not a bad thing either. Not every game has to be as big as Fortnite and Deadlock does what it does very, very well and those who are willing to invest the time are getting a great game.

[@bobothebob4716]

Its so wierd to hear them say OW1 was so much more fun, but that the devs were bad, but also say that OW2 is so bad, but the devs are better. There might be a lesson to learn from that.

[@paulakroy2635]

The devs of ow1 were too stubborn in terms of balance, pacing of content, certain hero designs. OW2 devs are alot more open to accepting feedback and the new heroes are the best hero designs in a while. The problem is ow2 itself is a shit show because the game has way to many problems that it was built upon (5v5 leading to tanks being a raid boss)

[@bobothebob4716]

@@paulakroy2635 I'd argue that raid boss tanks are a recent edition (in the last 6 months). OW2 don't have clean hands either. Not to mention dudes like Mauga and Lifeweaver. I think the content creators like them more because they get more access, but I think they are honestly just the same if not much worse than the ow1 devs.

[@mickeyboy90]

@@bobothebob4716 you can’t make tank enjoyable in 5v5 without being giga-tanks and them having so much responsibility. Its unfortunate but bad decisions led them down the path.

[@nickkelly2191]

Yeah it's because of burnout, these people played overwatch as their job for 8 years. My full time job was way more engaging and interesting my first 2 years than it is now. That's why you need to take these opinions with a grain of salt. Rivals is fresher and more fun because of it. If any major content creator is playing rivals in 8 years I'll be baffled

[@lostmycat5671]

​@@bobothebob4716I think the newer team that replaced the "older" ow2 dev team seems pretty good, they've reworked a lot of the oldest and most hated maps in the game and tend to steer the game in a way where they try to change things at a level where it's noticeable instead of endless micro buffs. not saying they're perfect but I think the newer team has done a much better job

[@amare2014]

about the clip potential part, i wholeheartedly agree. ive had one clip where in my plat comp match, i cancelled enemy strange portal with spidey grab during tie breaker and it gave us so much time. i watched it back from the strange’s pov and after the portal got cancelled, he just stood there. thats a new high ive achieved.

[@bot4x202]

It’s crazy how it’s 6v6 but it doesn’t feel like your personal impact is small at all. I had a plat comp game where we got rolled on first point on double tank so I switched off magneto and went wolverine. After killing the groot 5 times he just stood in spawn lmfao.

[@madhatten5123]

@@bot4x202I had a similar Wolverine swap against a triple tank comp that rolled us early on. Guy on my team put in chat “Wolvie swap?”…. I popped tf off and we won in OT was an epic game.

[@dkronow3140]

There’s so many stories and moments this game let’s you create. Whether it’s deleting a support and then going invis on psylocke as the team turns to peel, only for them to see nothing and you do it again, or Loki creating havoc by copying his magik and having 2 dark. Childs up at once. The potential is nuts

[@madhatten5123]

@ for sure that’s what I’ve been telling me friends that the skill expression is so insane. I have a lot of friends that I think would love this game if they would try.

[@MissionControl-]

Bogur only one here smart enough to keep "ow" out of his online personality lol

[@ninthfriend3347]

1:24:22 Regarding Eskay's comment about OW devs being very passionate, if they really are but still haven't implemented the things that they're passionate about making, then it has something to do with the higher-ups and management. Devs would want to do this, but the higher-ups and management say otherwise. That's how I see it, and I can see why it is an issue. Apex Legend is also going through that and the game became worst over time. Overwatch on the other hand felt like it hasn't been going anywhere especially with Marvel Rivals adding things that were asked for Overwatch for years. For every step they take forward, there is bound to be another step that is back ward. Marvel Rival is modeled off 2016 - 2018 Overwatch success and will continue building off that.

[@RichardOwen-js6zp]

But hero bans only affects 3% of the player pool at the rank who actually get it.... so being the glue for the game when 97% of the players dont have it makes no sense.

[@ArielHal9000]

Streamer bubble, they haven't really ever spoken for the rest of the player base. Spilo has better insight in MR given how much time he spends with lower ranks.

[@joshuaamador-coppin155]

This video sealed it for me. We need to stop getting our opinion from content creators that are literally payed more by how much controversy they can stir. They never spoke for the majority of the player base.

[@ShaunLevett]

If you guys are being honest, Overwatch had become so sanitised because if any hero could do anything a bit mad you'd say it was "broken" and needed fixing. The game has been sanitised because they listened to high level streamers too much. You didn't want the chaos. Give it a few months and I imagine lots of you get annoyed with no type of role lock, or certain characters being OP. You moaned for years about role lock being needed. It just seems funny you are loving Rivals (I really am too) because it doesn't have the things you insisted Overwatch needed.

[@MicDubTV]

The issue with things being OP in Overwatch is that the OP mechanics are never fun for anyone other than the person using them. In Rivals, most heroes have something that is considered “OP” but it’s spread among so many characters that it’s normal. That’s what makes them different. In Rivals, it’s fun. And to blame creators is silly. In OW1, the devs didn’t listen to ANYONE, especially streamers.

[@Sac-chan]

@@MicDubTV Exactly what i was about to say, a new player may think Scarlet is op bc of her ult, her 2 dashes and her aim lock and stun....but then we have Iron Fist, then Mantis who pegs him, or Luna who also pegs him, the Ironman who insta kills them all with his ult and captain america who reflects his ult and insta kills the enemy team, and so on, when everyone's op, no one is. Unlike OW where only 1 to 3 characters are "op" for a while and then they get nerfed instead of buffing their counters and the rest of the roster

[@runaway74]

​@@Sac-chan Mantis does WHAT to Iron Fist?!?!

[@RoseGoldKR]

I don't know about others but open queue was a big disappointment for me in the game, I really disagree with you on that. I don't feel like I ever enjoyed a rivals match more because I had open queue. It seems like it almost always just causes issues like nobody wanting to flex or triple support unkillable team comps. Those are big reasons open queue isn't fun in overwatch and it equally feels so much less fun in rivals too.

[@Kitten_Catapult]

Overwatch needed rolelock because the devs were unable to fix the min maxing of GOATS, and other metas, that forced certain heroes to be played. It’s fine to have metas that have heroes favored, or even metas that aren’t too fun to play, but having a meta define the game for a year and a half really showed Blizzard couldn’t balance their game

[@matthewbrears2129]

On 2-2-2: in OW I was so glad it came in to give some stability to games (everyone played DPS). But in OW2, if you queue something and another role is letting the team down, there’s nothing you can do. In rivals, I love that you can swap to solve a problem. Not enough damage, you can swap to change it

[@EnergizingBane]

“Not enough damage” is funny because that never happens.

[@benhabner3425]

SVB youre a real one and the goat of hosting debates. The overwatch space will not be the same without you in my opinion. Ill always endorse your content and ill watch the soak just cause its you. Keep on keepin' on and all the best to you on all your future endeavors!

[@YeshuaMyGod]

The LAST THING Marvel Rivals devs should do is listen to OW streamers.

[@ElixoYT]

They asked for the problems it has. And now complain that the problems exist while the majority that can't get noticed cos they're not content creators didn't want those problems

[@danielw8776]

Yeah, all of these people except probably Necros will be back to playing Overwatch full time in a month or two. It's easy for them to say to just make MR the wild west because they're not going to stick around anyway.

[@ccaesers]

its going to cause another echo chamber for devs smh

[@lanadelsultana]

OW streamers = Rivals streamer who have played the game more than you?

[@rfewer]

Do all rivals players have like daddy issues with OW or something? Stop being so afraid all the time

[@Croc.]

Thank you for all the content you've put out SVB, I've loved listening to the podcast. All the best

[@tigerfalco]

1:18:40 SBV if you see this. I just wanted to answer. Im an aspiring game designer, and artist. Yes the actual making of a character (Programming, Modeling, rigging, texturing, animating, etc...) Would take the longest. However, concept phase takes time as well. It takes time to iron out details of Name, place of origin, personality, strengths/flaws, backstory, history with other characters, concept art, and gameplay concept, ability art, and in some cases sound design and other minor aspects. Think about the difference between making a cover or genre shift of a song vs making one from scratch. Its a huge difference. For example, since the Fantastic four is coming out today. Sue storm, we already know her name, what she looks like, backstory, everything. Her gameplay? Its invisible girl, she can go invisible and make force fields, boom already narrowed down 2 possible abilities. We know becausw of her character (and game roster needs) that she'd be more of a support/strategist too. Now take Sombra, try making her from scratch without any foundation. Hell a lot of people struggle coming up with names let alone everything else. If i were to try making a ninja game, itd take me significantly longer if everything was original, vs me making a Naruto game where I know everything down to how certain attacks would sound, and the only thing i have to figure out now is how we gamify things. It fast tracks you to the creation process.

[@TheChmoe]

(Coming from spotify) Thank you SVB for the podcast youve gotten me through so many work days over the years. Alway was a piece of candy in the morning finding a new Group Up podcast. Just super casual talking about topics and the hosting was always amazing. Its been 3 years now and ive been promoted 3 times since i started listening so it just made me nostalgic of getting through the day with you guys. Thanks for all ya do SVB :) now back to work lol.

[@Solarjolt]

2:01:20 Idk if Eskay is serious or not about the ‘lesbians making out’ thing. I think it’s probably a dry humor bit, but if she’s actually serious, then she’s begging for Marvel Rivals to get into trouble for no reason. The negative halo effect from leaning into that social issue in the game would pull the conversation away from the quality of the game and start getting players talking about shit that doesn’t matter. Just make the game fun and keep it that way. Don’t over complicate shit.

[@brodrickbaker]

No I think she’s dead serious and I couldn’t agree with you more… like what are you thinking??

[@MasterMemo]

Overcomplicate is an odd thing to say. But yeah, I think if the game is true to Marvel, then they can have the social stuff that's in Marvel comics. Unless having Marvel characters is just a cash grabby reason for its theme.

[@alexescorza8120]

@@MasterMemoit’s Chinese best they can do is imply

[@mactallica9293]

China will not ever add this in

[@MasterMemo]

@@alexescorza8120 oh I understand that there are cultural (and legal?) barriers, but it does instantly weaken the integrity of the brand. Like can we not have Iceman in the game because he's gay in some iterations? I guess they can just have all the characters not mention parts of their backstory, but it'll feel shallow lore wise. Like we saw in the latest trailer that Sue mentions being annoyed at Namor. We know Reed and Sue are together. Will Deadpool just not mention liking anyone? It won't make the gameplay any worse, for sure. But it sucks that part of the appeal of this game is it being Marvel...but we won't get parts of Marvel.

[@Nickelback8469]

If the devs don’t want to add role lock they need to put more effort into adding characters into roles other Duelist, especially Vanguard. If over half the roster weren’t Duelists the lack of tanks and supports wouldn’t be as strongly felt.

[@ramykaram4278]

Hey SVB. Wishing you the best. I've enjoyed your content for a long time now. Overwatch was a big part of my life but I also find myself burnt out of gaming these days, so I totally understand where you're coming from. Good luck going forward!!

[@DigitalHIFI09]

Am i the only one annoyed that Eskay wants gay people kissing in a game? As a bi guy, they can add lgbtq heroes (like DP and Iceman) but i don't want to see them make out. That doesn't make the game fun. You can EASILY see that online. Just focus on what makes the game fun

[@adriankasparek1561]

Same opinion here, as bi guy I couldn't agree more

[@HBG313]

Iceman isnt gay

[@gsoma4022]

Meh i dont reeally care. But i get it people get offended over anything now a days.

[@gummyboots]

1. she was obviously being silly for fun 2. why does them being gay matter here for you specifically, if she said she wanted to see like Mr. Fantastic and Invisible woman kiss would you be complaining about it?

[@yabito]

Maybe as a composition like hulk and wolverine. You click and Ice Man and Deadpool kiss to grant health regen 😂

[@StevenBruleMD]

Good luck on your endeavors, man. I'll miss your gaming stuff; been here since your first Winston guide back in the day. See you on The Soak, friend.

[@insomniaddictesp]

1:30:35 my take on this is that while there are players switching I think the vast majority of rivals players are former Overwatch players that haven’t been playing OW2 regularly. So I think it’s more that rivals took their lapsed part of their player base

[@SuperLifestream]

Or people that think they might get a chance to play with their favourite streamer. Id have much more respect if say Flats kept playing OW2, then 3 weeks later was like. "OK so i've been farming TF outa Marval Rivals and this is what I think". Remove chat and the social environment, Remove the Hype train, remove playing it because its the hot thing to play right now. play like 99% of us and actually see if the game is good. Id rather play a game someone with 2k subscribers is recommending. Seeing youtube just fill with 100 streamers all talking about it before it even came out just made it worse in my eyes. I think it will end up being like Fortnite though. everyone playing now, in a few years itll still be farming children for money and daily logins

[@ziek3012]

@superlifestream But why should he play a game like overwatch if he is miserable? He wants to enjoy his job. He enjoys marvel rivals.

[@essejay-d1l]

the overwatch community of rivals is literally a minority, the game has anywhere from between 330-430k concurrent players on steam, and overwatch 2 has had at most 35k concurrent, and right now overwatch has dipped below 19k concurrent on steam charts. Overwatch doesn’t magically spawn in a couple hundred thousand players to rivals, there’s at most maybe 15-20k (just double the number if you include console) people who were from overwatch. There’s an even lower chance that ow2 players who quit for years went to rivals cause they’d just be out of the loop, so this take always never makes any logical sense

[@insomniaddictesp]

@@essejay-d1l your comparison is flawed because the vast majority of the OW2 playerbase is not playing on Steam they're playing on battlenet, for which we have no numbers. What I do know is that I have tons of friends that have not played OW for years, tried OW2 and didn't like it, and we are all playing rivals together.

[@teakwondoughnut]

1:24:49 NDA moment? What is flats eluding to here?

[@treyw38]

^^^

[@fizzlock]

Id really like to know lmao

[@blackomega34]

Marvel Rivals is proof that we need to stop advancing graphics. There is no reason this game couldn't have been made in 2010 and run on ultra on a 960. We've hit the graphics asymptote a decade ago. Art style is everything.

[@racmanov]

Graphic is irrelevant m8. What is relevant is competent devs

[@humblecanadian4206]

Too bad its so badly optimized

[@blackomega34]

That's my point. This game runs like Crysis for no reason.

[@JunPun616]

Hopefully the new season 1 graphics change will improve the frame rate problem.

[@dsvd4727]

It just got bad coding, art style and graphics are not separate things, modern devs just that incompetent that most of the games look like shit, probably outsourced to india or something

[@PringZD]

I've watched some of your other content but it's been a pleasure to listen to these bi-weekly/monthly podcasts for the past years :) So thank you for housing all the different communities under this roof! I still hope that sometimes we will get again some of you guys talking shit about some patch notes or something haha i'd love that it's a nice moment to relax and have a laugh! Anyway until then, good luck with all of your work, i't's always a better choiche do what you love :P Till next time!

[@just.Harley]

i dont think flats is coming back to overwatch anytime soon 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@simonshura9144]

Why would u wanna go back willingly to a abusive game 😂 ask yourself that ?

[@just.Harley]

@simonshura9144 because not abusive 😭😭 i still enjoy the game :(

[@matthewmccloskey515]

So?

[@Qwmp-]

Lets not forget that most of these streamers ran defense for Overwatch's decline into 5v5 role lock and refused to raise serious criticisms until the game died.

[@random1237]

this

[@fullnelson4986]

Aka shills 👍

[@madman4043]

Are you stupid? Role queue was one of the best things to happen to overwatch competitive and has literally no relation to 5v5, which happened much later

[@mrpetebojangles21]

I vastly preferred 5v5

[@rizaadon]

What a sad time to be an actual Overwatch fan. I truly wanted the best for this game and streamers like this let the game die in favor of getting personal benefits from Blizzard.

[@ArthaCel]

I love Overwatch, but the stomp that they're having right now absolutely earned. And so is the success of Marvel Rival

[@NathanNGM]

I really appreciate the open honesty. Rare in the youtube space I feel. E en pulling back the curtains on your HelloFresh comp says a lot about you keeping it a buck. Appreciate you mayne!

[@xeno_808]

amazing podcast as usual. i really hope you continue to make these.

[@ShrekSwag]

Thanks for all ur hard work and best of luck. RIP Group Up Podcast press F to pay respects

[@Anewlevel0091]

F

[@meru_lpz]

F

[@JackZ72]

F

[@Amysync]

I love this video so much! There's so many points tackled and it's nice to hear the streamers I watch actually agree to the same thing I've felt/experienced playing OW. Hope to see more of this discussion for the future season on Marvel Rivals!

[@ElixoYT]

Streamers that kept saying things like fix this bug, doomfist fun but op etc and kept mentioning it suddenly want things like that to stay and "you shouldn't have listened to us".

[@beanjuice6012]

Yeah its so fucking stupid.

[@Azrael_Xx_]

yeah, weird huh

[@frozenkiller61]

Hindsight is 20/20

[@MicDubTV]

Doomfist being OP wasn’t fun for anyone but Doom players. That’s the difference. In Rivals, almost every hero has something that’s overtuned which balances the playing field.

[@Sac-chan]

I mean, if the rest of the cast was as op and fun as Doomfist, then it'd be fine, but if only doomfist was allowed to be op then the game has a problem

[@mintcream7017]

SVB tbh when you said it’d be meaningless to you to host a 6v6 debate i felt that so hard. honestly 90% of the time i listen to group up just because i appreciate how you facilitate discussion. def gonna sign up for some free meals and i hope more people sub to the soak!

[@joelles]

i love that netease refuses to add a role queue, which i agree is necessary they dont add bc of 5v5/6v6 but i also think what people forget is that when overwatch made this first mistake to to dumb down the gameplay by adding a role queue and they still do making things easier more simplified.and that in turn makes the average player think more simply. bc i can already tell whats going to separate the good high elo player from the bad ones are the ones in marvel rivals is the ones that can find the balance in the team composition and that balance might not be 2/2/2 roles. and rn that shift of thinking critically for the team is separating players that shouldnt be in GM or Diamond lobbies and forcing them to think outisde the box which is what make league such an engaging game

[@tuinhoofd1923]

The idea that overwatch is dead is so out of touch and reactionary, so many people still care about the characters and a huge percentage of the player base are casual players who just like overwatch, there will be players remaining until the servers shut

[@meru_lpz]

Agreed!! A lot of overwatch characters like Pharah, Mercy, Venture etc are very close and dear to my heart and i just don't feel the same way about Iron Man, Mantis, Jeff etc idk

[@emppukarlsson9298]

True, also nice profile pic

[@MicDubTV]

@@meru_lpzPharah has been my main since 2017-18, so I feel where you’re coming from. But, with no PvE & the narrative team basically all being fired, there’s no hope that I get anything of substance for Pharah lore or for anyone else. I love so many heroes in OW, but the way things have been mismanaged is a true disservice to how great this world was. As for Rivals, the game has story content & lore IN GAME that’s will be accessible at all times. You create/unlock comics & short stories as you play through the season. Additionally, if you find yourself interested in a hero, there’s a plethora of content on them online whether it’s in comics, movies, or shows. It’s all there. Whether you or I care or not doesn’t make that less cool. Hell, I couldn’t give a shit about Iron-Man, but I enjoy playing him in game & one of his skins referenced the comic that it was from & that got me to look up the comic, which was actually pretty interesting. That was mind blowing to me & is honestly pretty sick.

[@RoseGoldKR]

People have been calling ow dead almost since the game released. There will always be someone who doesn't have fun and decides the game is "dead". It's meaningless.

[@rustle495]

Its not literally dead. But its dead in cultural, popular, mainstream, future sense. It will never grow in a real way, its extremely tainted by all the dumb mistakes and broken promises.

[@bbott137]

A thing you guys said that i thing is wrong is that people when bored of Rivals will revisit OW. It fills the same slot in my head, im not going to play 2 games of the same genre at once. Im going to play other genres.

[@LootDoctor]

2:12:00 They will do what league of Legends does. everyone gets 1 ban and all the bans happen all at once. so all 10-12 bans will happen all at once and you and the other team can ban the same thing

[@natmiguel47]

1:26:51 - Flats "XYZ ask but you get ABC" take is spot on, dude is on fire.

[@NobleRenegade7]

So, as expected, Eskay added absolutely nothing of value to the conversation except for wanting lesbians to make out. Terrific.

[@Arcae95]

This is a brain dead take.

[@Bluuedream]

Captain Marvel as a Vanguard is by far my most wanted character!

[@heartofthelion6169]

Good luck SVB! The Soap channel sounds really dope so I’m definitely checking it out!😂

[@njuns999]

Sad you're going away from gaming, your OW podcasts were the best, but totally respect your decision. All the best for the future

[@w8imalive283]

Of course eskay would be the one asking for women to kiss each other. When every hero has a marvel tied backstory. If you want women kissing eskay go to those specifically tied websites and not want to force feed a initiative

[@IchigoTheQuincy]

Ow fans: Can we get nerfs for widow hs and maybe that story mode y’all promised? Blizzard: Nope! Can’t be done, but here’s Mauga! Rivals fans: Can we get we get some nerfs for the met- Rivals: OF COURSE! Also here’s 3 new maps, 4 heroes, a new game mode, battle pass that lets you earn in game credits for new cosmetics with skins that are actually good, a new rank tier, win rates information for EACH rank, a bunch of sick new lore and we will keep u updated the whole time 🤗

[@gsoma4022]

Actually overwtach first year came out with 6+ maps, 5 new game modes, 4 characters. And loot boxes you can easily earn in game. And lore with cinematics that have yet to be matched almost 10 years later

[@IchigoTheQuincy]

@ and marvel did almost all of that in season 1 and more 😭

[@Shunbound]

I'm confident he's fine. But something about the way Bogur holds himself and talks about stuff just irks me. Just comes off as arrogant. Once again. I'm sure it's a me thing, because it even irks me when I agree with his point. There's a YT shorts guy that has a similar effect.

[@SpectreAdept]

The return of the GOATed podcast

[@hongomybongo9684]

It’s the end of it lol

[@frankcayseron8637]

i think the best thing MR is fundamentally doing is that they understand when something is a player problem and not a game problem. role lock for example, yes you can put it in game and force people to play the roles but that is basically just developers saying "hey you must play game this way" and that is wrong on multiple levels. NetEase understand that their job is to provide players with options and that its players responsibility to use the options wisely. Another example would be teamups with groot. as strategist main i loved the concept of just jumping on groot as jeff or rocket and focus on healing without needing to move myself while also getting extra buffs. it looked amazing on the paper when i was reading it and possibilities for cool stuff was infinite. But in reality every time i paired up with groot and player sees me jump on them giving them that extra hp boost they just dive and die and killing me in process and then act confuse why did i not heal them, even though i healed over 2k dmg before whole team burst groot into oblivion. My point is, that does not mean this is bad team-up mechanic, its just bad player not knowing how to utilize it. I mean majority of groot players dont even understand how to utilize their walls and use maximum potential of the damage walls do, why would i blame NetEase for groot players not understanding having strategist on your shoulders is not making you invincible. I love that every character is chaotic and have potential to be MVP. i had games with cloak and dagger where my FPS would drop down to 0 and freeze my screen every time i hear vanda ulting and i still got mvp. embrace the chaos and increase playerbase skill level, stop balancing things out to make every character bland. MR has bright future as long they dont start cattering to whiny losers :)

[@KayD__o]

Best wishes SVB. Thanks for being such a great OW content creator for so many years!

[@fuscello]

SVB as a long time enjoyer of the podcast, I want to say that I agree with you. Overwatch has genuinely made me who I am more than any other type of media. And seeing the work you put into the podcast, how it was the only real beacon of light in overwatch's worst days, how the discussions became more and more followed by the devs and how they shaped overwatch into a better direction (we actually got 6v6 tests?!) really made me feel like you quietly became the single most important member of the community. But I, as you seem to in the last part of the video, am just fed up with it, this podcast has served some of the most delicious meals ever cooked, but at the same time we have chewed these meals so many times they essentialy became bland; this is not to say that the podcast production or subjects brought to the table were the same or whatever, its just that after this much talking (or rather listening on my part) I couldnt give a flying fuck anymore. It's not even that I dont like overwatch (I play it from time to time, and I would still rate it as the best multplayer game period), but i genuinely dont care anymore what they do with the game, I'm just done caring, it's time for the new community to care about this shattered gem of a game. Having said (ranted I guess) this, I will still watch every podcast you make because they are simply that good and also because it basically has become a ritual for me, so I'm strangely happy with the fact that you are slowing down indefinitely. I wish you the best and I will probably finally check your video essay's channel to get more of you without more of overwatch! cheers

[@KawaiiAriiYT]

Eskay, no. Leave identity politics out of the game. It has been so refreshing to not give a flying fuck about who people are attracted to. Also, gotta be careful not to ruin the lore for most of the characters.

[@adriankasparek1561]

Even if, it's Chinese game, I really doubt they will add any of those to the game, and they will make argument of using their own multiverse version of characters. Is that a problem, not really but some people have their entire personality around this shit

[@mapleloot]

I see your point and it’s a valid opinion, I’m just going to be pedantic We’re getting Mr Fantastic and Invisible Woman, the first married straight couple. So already, identity politics are in the game I don’t have a problem with that, but saying identity politics is not already in the game is debatable

[@InnerAwes0me]

​@@mapleloot isn't that cloak and daggers whole thing? But they did a pretty good job if it didn't stick out and you couldn't pick up on it.

[@mapleloot]

@@InnerAwes0me They are! I actually didn’t know that, so then I guess there’s two straight couples

[@HBG313]

Ofc the troon wants identity polictics in the game. Cant make this shit up

[@ArielHal9000]

Wow, you amassed 4 people with basically the same opinions to glaze on Rivals for 2.5 hours! No actual debate is occuring here.

[@thegaminglord2190]

perfect example or a person with defecting brain cells here you didn't even watch the whole thing

[@ArielHal9000]

@@thegaminglord2190 Watched the first 30 minutes of it then skipped around to see if any of it changes. Couldn't find any disagreement or any actual debate through all of that and decided that it would be a waste of my time to keep watching. If you could timestamp a disagreement that occurs I'd be grateful.

[@thegaminglord2190]

@@ArielHal9000 1:45:00 right there they talked about all the problems with the game here, before that time stamp a few minutes they also talked about the problem of the game giving you the same map over and over again , If you can't make the effort of finding this by yourself maybe podcasts aren't for you, there are a lot of shorts with subway surfers going on in KZbin, but don't talk about something you didn't watch

[@ramennoodles1404]

Crazy to admit you didn’t watch and still have the audacity to respond like you were right here LOL

[@ArielHal9000]

@thegaminglord2190 that's crazy it took 2/3 of the podcast for someone to say anything remotely critical of MR. But even in Bogur's criticism, they all agree. This isn't a debate, this is "let's all share out feelings and hug". I mean Necros isn't even paying attention to the conversation and needs every question repeated to him because he's playing MR. It's a bad podcast, not sure why it's my fault they falsely advertised it as a debate.

[@truthmachine6382]

Imagine Deadpool in Rivals. First, they would get Ryan Reynoldsolds. Second, imagine all the fourth wall braking riffs, calling out Overwatch :D

[@vooduh]

he's comin. don't worry

[@trilliamcosby]

No, they would not get Ryan Reynolds. These games can't afford A list Hollywood actor to voice their characters. Do you see Hugh Jackman voicing Wolverine? Ian McKellan as Magneto? Nolan North will likely be Deadpool's VA like in most media.

[@vooduh]

@ likely not but it would not be that crazy. For one Ryan Reynolds is that type of guy. To say fuck it and just do it for fun/cheap. And it’s not like this is some indie game. It is in collaboration with Marvel. Who they work for.

[@Gablablin]

​@@trilliamcosby to be fair Steve Blum as Wolverine is the goat.

[@Gablablin]

​@@vooduhhed have to keep updating it for each new hero its probably less than 5% that would happen

[@wr2299]

When I think back on all 8 years of playing Overwatch I remember that the most fun I had with and without friends was before Role Queue. That was when the game started to lose it's "fun" factor for me because half the creativity went out the window.

[@ArielHal9000]

I'm sure it was my team being creative when we had 5 dps all refusing to swap

[@veo16]

Bogur is hilarious. Good natured, and also good at the game. Look how he lights up the room. 1:47 so many other top streamers are just really shitty when the cameras are off.

[@firstnamelastname4008]

I was thinking that myself, I'd probably vibe with him irl if I knew him. Seems like fun

[@Caius1942]

Let’s be real, no one in any ELO has ever said “Thor ult is the best ult.” That said, I do love rolling in low ELO & Quick Match as Iron Fist.

[@duman173]

People complaining about role lock and 5v5 or 6v6 still dont understand those are "problems" they are symptoms of the problem. The real problem is Blizzard wanted to turn OW into something it was never meant to be, an e-sport and a pve game, all this bullshit where the game lost its appeal and fun ( and why most hero shooters fail) is because they aren't fun in the name of "balance and fairness". Marvel Rivals (at least for now hopefully they really do get this) is fun above everything else, that's why for the start people are being forgiving of all the jank just like in ow1. If blizzard wants to fix their game they only need a couple of things, bans and making every character fun again by making them somewhat op in someway, cus when everything's op you get fun balance when everything's weak it's boring gameplay. Are people going to complain, 100%, so dont give a fuck and make it enjoyable instead of this sweatlordfest where the community larps as if this game is some sports powerhouse and not just some wannabe league. ps: also a third thing could be the devs and management not being such douchebags that they can't go "we did everything wrong" even if they don't think they should apologize they should at least face the stuff honestly

[@dramslife]

Awesome podcast btw. Loving the game and love to hear in depth convos about it from top players and streamers

[@MicDubTV]

SVB, I just wanted to let you know that I scrolled forward to see what you’re planning to be doing moving forward & I think that’s awesome, man. I’ve not watched your streams much, but I’ve always enjoyed your content. Do what makes you happy. I say that as a guy with a film background as well. Keep it up 👏🏾

[@ForbidenXShadow]

A smart thing they are doing since role lock isn’t a thing the hero’s can kinda be more hybrids. Good way to trick dps players in playing a tank labeled a dps( ie panther Wolverine, the new dps)

[@GamersErr0r]

There’s no one thing that turned me off overwatch, it was hundreds of things adding up over time. Stale metas, poor balancing, long queues, dumbing down heroes, lack of content, forced DEI, dropping PVE, 5v5, super tanks, power creep, health buffs and increased time to kill, nerfing widow counters to sell skins. just to name a few…

[@stets1183]

"forced dei". I think you're braindead

[@jacobbaartz7710]

17:40 I actually think it's super important for a game to be balanced, otherwise you end up with our moiras ruining the game for newer players. Instead I think what we're feeling that makes marvel rivals so fun is that it's plainly just unsolved. Overwatch is in such interaction gimbal-lock, with half the cast having almost less than 2 effective abilities. Supports have zen orb, Lucio aura, moira. Afk gameplay. Tanks and DPS have to reserve 1-2 of 2-3 of their CDs as just a simple escape, or sustain. It might not even be that overwatch characters are poorly designed, it might simply be that I already know Lucio has a 4 round burst, but then I see captain america with this strange basic melee attack that charges up to be a ranged attack, and you can weave it in between running to keep up to targets instead of dog shit rein who *hits targets away* after he finally closes the difference. TL;DR Balance is good/important. Fun comes from experimentation, learning, mastering, but also - a window of opportunity.

[@nlvghost4207]

Can't believe they didn't mention the performance bugs with fps

[@trilliamcosby]

They're currently still being paid to shill the game, there's a ton they aren't mentioning. Freedo held an identical podcast to this one, but it had Avril, Samito, and Spilo and they actually had a fair amount of focusing on the game's issues.

[@DanChu-e4k]

Next patch already said they did improvements, so we'll see. Also these ppl are streamers so they have strong pc. They won't notice those problems

[@Bear0601]

@@trilliamcosbyI know for sure Flats doesn’t have any contract with Marvel Rivals so he has no reason to hold back. Even then there’s so much to talk about the game that of course some stuff will be left out.

[@Ultradahn]

1:54:54 I have nothing against this, but someone please explain to me how this matters from a gameplay is fun perspective? It adds nothing

[@MachigaMMO]

I think it is important to identify that the game is really fun for casual play if you are fully 100% casual. As in you don't care if you win. You don't care what your team comp is. Where Marvel Rivals falls flat is for the midcore who are not at the upper echelons but want to climb. They are there in the trenches with people picking 5 Duelists while trying to climb. That is the population I see burning out once the fun starts to fade. If you are at the peak where people tend to flex more and bans can be utilized, you have fun. If you are at the absolute bottom where you don't care and nothing matters, you have fun. Anywhere in between can be volatile. The game's freedom allows for incredibly selfish play in a team game. That seems long-term a bad idea to me. Not having hero bans at every rank seems like a bad idea. The game has to protect the players from themselves in some capacity. I agree that role-locks and queues is going to be received poorly, but the alternative is a bit too much anarchy to expect the average player to have an enjoyable experience in ranked. At the end of the day there are a lot more average people in ranked than there are top players, but you're not going to get the average opinions on a podcast.

[@paulakroy2635]

Agree about the hero bans disagree about the game needing to protect players from themselves. Especially when it leads to erosion of the causal base through queue times

[@TheSpawnTrapper]

I've said that a Role Queue not Role Lock would help the game. I think we need a middle ground between Open Queue and 2-2-2 Role Lock. I think a 2-1-1-2 system would be the perfect hybrid. 2 Flex players who can pick any role, 1 DPS player, 1 Tank Player, and 2 Support Players because the game feels best with 2 healers. This gives you freedom to play multiple compositions and doesn't stop the team-up potential. Hero Bans being at Gold and Higher I think would help as well.

[@MachigaMMO]

@paulakroy2635 I don’t think role locks/queue have to be the only way to protect players. The dev team is experienced and passionate enough that I’m open to alternative ideas on how to resolve the issue. But at the end of the day it is an issue that needs resolving somehow. It is a team game, designed around people behaving and cooperating to function properly. Online doesn’t have the kinds of social pressures in person team activity has to enforce that. Currently, the game has nothing to enforce it. The only form of control is bans which is locked to the tiers of players who already are more likely to cooperate. That is not a healthy system for the long term.

[@eduardotorres5458]

Another thing against role que, especially in high elo is that sometimes there’s a bad dps or vanguard or strategist and players will switch around mid game until we get a good comp, and the game ends up turning in our favor.

[@Sp00kyActi0n]

Something that I wanted to see in OW that I hope comes to Rivals is map selection before game start from a given set of like 3 similar to what Halo did (does?). Maybe something like CS2 premier does. Also gimme Nightcrawler

[@enyx9638]

Thank you SVB for speaking words of wisdom and reality when almost every other OW content creator other than Spilo has been glazing over Rivals. I'm very disappointed in OW content creators especially Sam and Freedo as I feel like most of them are just chasing the money by being biased towards Rivals and deceiving their audience by their glazing to build their brand.

[@dawsondegraaf8143]

I’m an early subscriber of The Soak. My favourite video is the one on Ghibli endings. Thanks for all you did with this podcast. It helped me fall asleep many nights. But we all know there just isn’t much excitment or hope for Overwatch anymore. Happy for you SVB!

[@ThatMillGuyShaf]

Bruh right after @YourOverwatch too!

[@vonovon465]

this is the blizzbootlickers version since we have two of them here. not gonna say who though

[@SLAP1FACE]

Say who. What do you have to lose?​@@vonovon465

[@duman173]

@@vonovon465 so edgy of you, you must be so cool at your school, i bet everyone shares their bubble gum with you

[@ThatMillGuyShaf]

@@vonovon465 look at this edgelord

[@hanks1263]

Real

[@rogue4340]

Necros finally on group up but it's for Rivals, 😢

[@lovedeepsandhu8502]

Role lock is not good for the game. There are a lot of players like me who mainly play duelists and would never have learnt how to play a vanguard or strategist if there was role lock. The flexibility offered in the game to choose another role once others have picked duelists is amazing. It also keeps the game fresh and interesting being able to play multiple roles People underestimate just how many dps mains in overwatch also flexed to tank when necessary so once role lock came in, they all just chose dps making it look like a reduction in tank mains

[@sporia]

Just because the "Devs" are passionate about a video game does not mean its going to be successful or people are going to like what there doing , they infused OW with a ton ideology's and politics

[@graveaxel3607]

A think a point everyone was trying to make (halfway through, they might say this), the Devs are allowing there to be emergent gameplay. Which is something I think a lot of Devs are scared of. Even something as simple as animation canceling, I feel like most Devs don't want quirky gameplay mechanics anymore. I would rather all heroes feel really strong, and honestly I think all ranks should have bans. Hate Iron Fist? Ban him. Don't want to deal with a Hawkeye in Gold? All skill levels should be able to ban, if anything they would be the ones more upset at having to deal with specific heros. Great talk so far, the game is so much fun. Im enjoying tanking/flexing in comp, and playing QP with my friends.

[@Phantazmay]

1:54:58 I'm pretty sure Psylocke refers to Magik as her sister. No, I don't want to see that.

[@CaptainCastle]

They aren't related, if she calls her sister its colloquial

[@nathanborchardt2419]

Don't make stuff gay to please certain audiences. Just go off of what works from the comics and source material and be true to the characters and people are going to keep playing the game

[@ronnieriosstayshredded7410]

Disgusting that she says that

[@DigitalHIFI09]

She can easily go online to see that, that's not gonna make the GAME FUN. It'll feel forced for no reason

[@ash-yg2hx]

⁠@@nathanborchardt2419​​⁠​⁠​⁠ Psylocke has had relationships with both men and woman in the comics and Magik flirts with both men and woman allot in the comics but has never been in a relationship. I’m not saying they should be in a relationship because I don’t think they work together. But I feel like you’ll switch up about staying true to the source material so I thought it’d be funny to tell you.

[@Psykroids]

Necros speaking straight fire right now. I find it so apalling that he was the only one who believes that the devs need to balance both casual and competitive. It's not impossible, even if it is the devs always should be aiming for it. It's not about the goal so much as it is about the effort. Blizz gave up so early on that is so apparent now when comparing games.

[@JacobSReeds]

It's great to see you again SVB! After seeing Freedo's long form the other day, I thought of you and looked you up on The Soak. I hope life's treating you well! Hopefully the Copywrite stuff can blow over!

[@Kildain717]

I have over a hundred hours in Rivals but barely played ranked so I haven’t experienced hero bans. It’s interesting to hear how that adds strategy.

[@sixsam6766]

It does ones you get two it probably even more if you get past low diamond (plats players can get into diamond lobbies and bans are removed due to the plat players) but strategies do appear a good example is hulk team up with dr strange. Let say someone in your team hopes the enemy doesn't ban dr strange but question is do you banned hulk so no team get the game up, do just ban iron man and allow both team able to run hulk strange or do you banned another hero so both team are allow the whole team up go. Also try not to ban same heroes of enemy but teams banned at same time but you don't see who your opponent pic until after you hit ban s heroes. (I have multiple games where Hawkeye was ban by both teams so only 3 heroes where ban instead of 4

[@beanjuice6012]

Dont play ranked, its a disaster.

[@humblecanadian4206]

This podcasts needs less shills. Tall about the true optimization issues talk about the mouse accel how the game feel is so much worse how the hero designs are repetitive or melee feels clunky and how tanks are mostly not fun to play

[@marw_13]

bro has not felt the joy that is playing dr strange

[@daphknee626]

Woah, weird, almost like most of the things you have mentioned are your OPINION and others, might just have a different one to you 😂 crazy take I know

[@LackingClover]

Bro what world are you living in lmao. Tank feels super fun to play if you're not dogshit. I haven't noticed any problems with melee, hero designs are hardly repetitive and at most it'd be because they're all super heroes/villains. There's some optimization issues, sure, w/e. Really nothing major and they've been getting patched out already over time. I've experienced way less DC and crashes since I started playing, that's for damn sure. They also stated they're adding an option for mouse acceleration already. Maybe if you're complaining about stuff like this you should go look into the dev discussions and patches instead of looking at an opinionated podcast?

[@dangerzone3470]

Skill issue

[@HorusSun]

Thank you bro these are issues that need to be talked about I like the game but it can get even better if we rip off the bandaid.

[@gidkid100]

I never even thought about how the team ups work and benefit both players. Teamwork is built into the kit

[@BayBlends]

I think Overwatch can "Come Back" if they invest more into Cinematics again. Rivals has barely any cinematic and Overwatch is known for it and gets most of its casual players because of it. I don't like Overwatch, But that's what I've seen.

[@Toru_Adachi]

That will not work people will just watch the cinematic and move on with their day it’s similar to how people treated Arcane and how very little people went after to go play league

[@leonzchannelz]

Microsoft will never approve the budget required for more cinematics

[@MicDubTV]

@@Toru_AdachiTons of people went to play League. But League itself isn’t representative of what’s in Arcane compared to something like OW.

[@essejay-d1l]

Overwatch literally can’t come back, its reputation is arguably the worst in the gaming space as of right now. Even if cinematics released that’s not going to bring people back into the game, if anything that’s just going to transition them from gaming>video/media. You and I know that comparatively, marvel rivals is just the better hero shooter for someone to go to currently and for the foreseeable future, even if you consider cinematics there’s shows and movies that already exist for 95% of the roster in the game

[@revolioclockbergjr.6780]

If they released the PvP mode they said they were working on I would actually consider coming back. That was my most anticipated game since it was announced, but blizzard has become a live service company. It’s not profitable to make real games anymore when you can pump out 1 week of content every 2 months and call it a day.

[@Jessespresso]

It's a weird time for a lot of the OW streamers. The release of Rivals has created a weird split in the community (of course there are also a lot of players like myself who enjoy both games but that's not what I'm talking about here) Streamers such as Flats and probably many others spent years flip-flopping with their opinions on Overwatch. Understandably since the game has gone through many changes. But towards the end (meaning before they switched to Rivals) they had the opinion that the devs are great and they understand why they can't or won't implement some of the features that Rivals have from day 1. But now that they've switched, suddenly it's a big disappointment that they can't add these features. It's clear that they probably had a friendly relationship with most of the devs and didn't want to hold a spotlight of negativity towards the OW devs but suddenly that's changed. It just shows that these streamers a lot of people looked up to for opinions on the games state really do influence the community's opinions as a whole. I personally think that with the (re)release of 6v6, Overwatch 2 can be and has been a lot better. Maybe it's just me but I've been exclusively playing 6v6 as all roles. Yet the big streamers wouldn't state their opinions on 5v5 vs 6v6 and I wonder if that's because Blizzard knew they could sway the opinion too much so asked them specifically to not have a stance on either. I think it's time people stop holding these guys as the be-all and end-all of whether a game is fun, competitive or enjoyable and start making up your own opinions

[@Capojr937]

But y'all was against hero bans in overwatch on this same podcast

[@Leftistmushroom]

Different games Different mindsets

[@ziek3012]

Different game.

[@guilhermedecarvalhofernand1629]

They don't wanna admit your overwatch was right 😂

[@MasterMemo]

People's opinions can change. But also the games are different, so they have different needs. But also also, with overwatch having a bazillion hours in it, people knew people's mains, so people would be targeted.

[@guilhermedecarvalhofernand1629]

@@MasterMemo PALADINS and mobas had already solved the issue of variety of comps in matches with bans and overpowered characters, overwatch devs just had stubborn mindset to hearing actual criticism about it to use this solution. This has nothing to do with being a different game if they are in a similar genre.

[@calebbruchez233]

this has become a big “i feel like” podcast chanel without concrete evidence or based points to back the claims. i watched freedo’s podcast and it reminded me of old group up where ideas were backed with facts and the people stayed objective

[@shlqx1129]

I'll continue listening to this episode but before I even start, from the lineup alone I can see where it is going. I'd love to hear thoughts from a streamer who tried marvel rivals and did not like it or from someone who plays and streams both (and not out of a neccessity because there are drops). We all know ow streamers are tired and jumped to the next big thing spreading out the hype how amazing this new game is (and I'm not denying that) but maybe some variety of opinions?

[@driftingbout297]

there's not really any streamers that has played rivals that didn't like it the only people playing ow2 that streams to a noticeable degree are pro players essentially

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

“From seeing the line up, I can tell where this is going. I’d love to hear thoughts from someone who DOESNT think the N¥ZIs did anything wrong” That’s basically the level of rarity you’re asking for in these beginning stages of the game

[@shlqx1129]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 honestly I might be wrong but I refuse to believe marvel rivals caters to everyone's needs and wants and there's not even one semi-popular overwatch streamer who doesn't like this game (also please let's not bring nazis into these kind of conversations, there's plenty of people in the world who believe they did nothing wrong and I'm polish so it doesn't feel great lol)

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@ I tried my hardest to make it clear that the nazi usage was more about the rarity than the actions committed in the past. You’re not gonna find anyone like that RIGHT NOW. Even someone like Dafran folded

[@lostmycat5671]

​@@shlqx1129spilo seems to think the game is fun but isn't as big of a fan of it competitively

[@TheModedEzio]

Basically sanitisation was mentioned. When each character feels strong that feels nice. Is basically the same with league of legends. If all characters feel good and strong to play that is very fun. A character excelling in some area such as dps, burst damage, zone control, distraction, crowd control and plenty of other things. Figure out what seems healthy for them to be able to be beat and or countered rather than nerfing a character to a extremely un fun and what probably feels unfair standard of character

[@therealzahyra]

30:28 Thank you for saying that SVB, I have been saying this for a while. OW devs have been too worried about listening to the playerbase, which killed the game's fun imo

[@MrNeCr01]

It would be hilarious if in one of the Marvel Movies, the hero protagonist is having difficulty overcoming an antagonist and some well known pro rivals player just has a sit down with the guy and is like "Why are you even struggling w/ this guy, I roll that character AS YOU all day long in Top 500; try engaging in this way instead of just feeding"

[@joshuabarnes1486]

Duncankneedeep (he has a new YT handle now) used to specialized Pokémon content with a tool that he paid to have made. He got tired of it and started a new channel just for it, where he would host when he wanted to, but had a rotating cast of hosts (his friends). I think you could do something similar with this, although you are a great moderator for these conversations. You could rotate your big hitters (Flats, Spilo, Sam, Freedo, etc.) to host and come back as you want. Idk, just an idea because I think these podcasts are very productive, and I enjoy them a lot. Good luck with whatever you pursue SVB