The Great July Debate feat. Flats, Samito & Spilo

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 23rd July 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-july-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@ZeGreatBamboozle]

❤❤❤

[@sharkattack6157]

its the 22nd tho?

[@frosty4894]

how does this comment say posted 3 hours ago and the vid is 2? is it just me with this problem?

[@Mercury_Black-l6r]

They are in the future and we're in the past ​@@sharkattack6157

[@certifiedfunnyguy]

​@@frosty4894you can add comments below scheduled uploads

[@MasterSergeantMartin]

Flats, Samito, and Spilo? We're in for a good one!

[@reigner-brown]

Minus fats

[@vgcontroller101]

@@reigner-brown HUH?

[@Phobie_2000]

@@reigner-brown such an hilarious comment, you should be a comedian.

[@Knee07]

If svb wasn't on there I would enjoy it better but that's just me

[@livesinalazywonderland4021]

Exchange Flats for Freedo and we would have had a good tier cast

[@魚-c3d]

Damn, Flats freaking cooked when he answered Spilo on the marketing topic. All this talking was actually very productive and full of substance, I definitely agree about cinematics being such a great part of Overwatch's popularity and essence. They have to come back !

[@rizaadon]

I'm happy that someone finally talked about this issue and brought up those specific points.

[@joshuacollins9316]

He has a degree in marketing, so that’s where he gets that insight.

[@astronette500]

flats absolutely killed it talking about the "emotion" of the cinematics. i hadn't thought about it in that way, but it does absolutely feel like the emotion of the game isn't there anymore. he brings up the dragons cinematic, but honestly the original doomfist gauntlet cinematic was what i saw that made me think "man, this really feels like something new."

[@vigour6786]

This is what I like about the new game Concord, say what you want about the gameplay or the characters but the cinematics and the promise of a new one every week would make you feel more connected to the characters that you like and giving them more personality outside of the regular voice lines or skins.

[@starhaven1881]

The rein cinematic still makes me feel.

[@matteofellin3691]

@@starhaven1881 Indeed, after years it still hits the same

[@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798]

I feel like the only game that can compete with cinematic is fromsoftware they are soo good in their games.

[@moniker2804]

@@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798 All those spurned by the Grace of Gold shall meet their end . . .

[@CZAR.6]

Can’t go wrong with Spilo as a guest.

[@bichitomax]

I love how players are gay for this guy.

[@TomMorello725]

@@bichitomax is that an insult or what

[@jackcern6776]

My favorite Christian life coach

[@aSuperPi.]

@@bichitomaxyes

[@hollyrowlands6943]

Spike nice

[@ytk3797]

STACKED ROSTER

[@jordanmaiden0073]

The Avengers have assembled.

[@endless_del]

ready for rivals beta tomorrow

[@wp1432]

We were missing Freedo then the real party would started

[@ForbidenXShadow]

@@wp1432freedo is a joke so I hope that statement was too

[@natedryer1909]

Thank GOD freedo isnt here

[@wp1432]

@@ForbidenXShadow thats why he is missing.

[@vanishhero964]

Dream blunt rotation

[@P-39_Airacobra]

This is the ultimate trio. I love when Sam is mixing the imaginary bowl as Flats is talking 12:40 😂😂

[@kevinsemidey2516]

Hol' up. Let'em cook 😂

[@Mag1c49]

Lmfao he actually is in the RV grinding it up tho. Nice catch lmao

[@AbbyAZK]

3 hours of svb, Spilo, Sam and flats? You already know this is gonna be a great episode. Thanks for your hard work as always SVB ! ♡

[@lootbaglu]

hell yeah abby. its gonna be you 1 day

[@AnimeOtaku56.]

Completely different from the last episode I literally couldn’t sit through it.

[@MansterBear]

What are you trying to say... that Spilo is also flats?

[@AbbyAZK]

@@MansterBear Shhhh

[@Dizzy205]

finally a podcast with guests that have actual insight on the game with well thought out ideas and opinions

[@-.Outlaw.-]

Yeah, if I had to listen to freedo’s brain dead takes again I’d kms.

[@Nicolas-fo8qd]

Podcast is so much better without jokers like Salt or Avril

[@robohobobro3926]

Banger episode, whenever Spilo, Sam and Flats are on the call together, magic happens, man. They cook separately but also feed each others' points so well too. Primo stuff.

[@vopcracker3193]

Sam for the 6v6 angle, Flats for the neutral ground, and Spilo with the big swings in game play changes. Literally dream team of OW analysis ( despite Flats and Spilo not being 6v6 fans, which severely hurts their credibility imo)

[@Nutstache]

​@@vopcracker3193Flats seems like he's swinging to the 6v6 side

[@alfonsovelazquez9565]

​@vopcracker3193 it's not that spilo isn't a 6v6 fan per se it's more that he doesn't see the format changing so he prefers to speak on how to adjust the current format to be more fun and balanced.

[@joshuacollins9316]

@@vopcracker3193just because Flats and Spilo have a diff take on 6v6 doesn’t hurt their credibility lol not everybody shares Sams opinion on it. (In fact he’s the outlier here) And they’ve stated multiple times the practical reasons why they feel that way.

[@魚-c3d]

​@@vopcracker3193not the whole world revolves around 6v6 and there are dozens of things we can do to improve OW apart from 6v6. I'm a 6v6er but some of y'all seriously need to broaden your horizons

[@kinshra639]

Haven't started yet but I mashed my mouse to pull open this video. This is the kind of podcast episode where I know everyone is going to make some great points

[@depthcharge5091]

Actually watchable podcast with these 4.

[@ecclecticsayonce5131]

Keep freedo outta here

[@Mikuroko69]

Haven't watched this yet, but this squad lineup just makes it look like this episode is going to be a good one.

[@h2woah127]

Right

[@cesarfigueroa8467]

I remember the Doomfist easter eggs before his release, MAN. That got me in the game so hyped for months. And then when the animated short drop with that battle it was so amazing and everyone was going crazy about to the game again.

[@Real_MisterSir]

I think also back then, new hero releases just felt more special. There weren't that many heroes to begin with and few had been introduced. You knew new additions would introduce very big shakeups in many ways, and they played into that buildup so well. What has there been for a hero like Juno? Jack shit. And she's even the most healthy hero we've had in probably years. Or Sojourn.. I still just call her "the Apex legend hero" because that's legit the only identity I have for her. Slide cancel jump mobility railgun shooter archetype. Doomfist introduced was teased, built up through lore drops, cinematics.. so good. Ram could have had the same buildup had he not been kept for OW2.

[@pakucharczyk2122]

​​@@Real_MisterSir To be fair Juno was teased with the big comet in the sky of some maps so calling it jack shit isn't really fair

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@pakucharczyk2122 Ok true, but honestly it never felt like more than an afterthought. Or simply not enough. Like, I don't feel like Juno has had any impact on Overwatch and the world lore up to this point, like she literally came outa nowhere in the sky. Doom and other prior heroes were teased in great ways where you know they shaped the way the world is today. They feel like they're crucial in the lore, and their arrival has weighed significance and anticipation as a result. Juno feels like she just arrived into this world from some other videogame (lore wise).

[@huntish3760]

The perfect lineup!

[@dlau707]

Wow, Flat's monologue at the end about the maintenance mode and Microsoft not investing and then Spilo's analogy comparing compassionate Blizzard designers to US Public School teachers really hits hard. I think the current problem with Overwatch is that every game feels same-y. It's the same meta tank counterswapping with too much healing and too much damage so either it's Godzilla vs King Kong or Prop Hunt depending on patch notes for each season, so it gets stale very quickly. I like the idea of having specialized passives for each hero that get stronger the longer you play that particular hero (to dissuade continuous counterswapping) that you would pick depending on the current game. That would give players more agency over making meaningful choices to win the game while letting them play the hero that they want to. I think that combined with 6v6 would revitalize the game like never before, since every match would potentially be different from the ones before.

[@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798]

Crazy how good these podcasts get when you put people who genuinely loves and care for the game and has a high understanding of how the game should be handled. 👍

[@baylo6513]

For me a massive problem with OW and the burnout people are feeling is that we got told we would get OW2 a new shiny game. We ended up getting nothing new. No PvE, nothing we got promised. As such we are playing the same game for 8years but it’s gotta (in my opinion) worse. The games going backwards. As such we have burnout.

[@thetoroboros]

group up dream team right here. need these three every episode!

[@darkphoenixempire6520]

This is the best stack for this podcast general topic. Title might be doing injustice for what is talked in here, but regardless. 1. Flats gives hands down the best take on Marketing. Blizzard? where are you. 2. Spilo has a very good take on balancing and understanding of the games vision. Blizzard? can you answer those questions? 3. Samito. Not sure if people will understand what he meant by "Dance of gameplay in overwatch" but I think I got it and he hits spot on. It kind of also answers the core fun aspect of why you think overwatch is Overwatch. Apart from character itself and cinematics.

[@o0_VanYsH_0o]

THE CREW IS BACK

[@Ellinov]

I'd bet the 6v6 workshop thing is probably not so popular because everyone mentions it and doesnt mention where to find it. lol

[@YeshuaMyGod]

7HSKW

[@kingvalor8265]

Wow amazing episode. Probably the best I’ve seen on this channel

[@MikeMisbach]

The cinematics are what got me into this game

[@chaosmark101]

I wish Flats wouldn't beat around the bush so much and just say he wants 6v6 back.

[@Blabbybike]

On God, he wants everything 6v6 would give but then goes "but I don't think 6v6 is the solution".

[@Punchbadguy]

This is the new best group up lineup

[@mvndoc]

God tier blunt rotation 🔥🔥🔥

[@anegg1464]

I was expecting 5, but this is EXACTLY who I thought was gonna be on lol

[@joshuabarnes1486]

Best group up podcast in a while tbh. It's the first one I've made it all the way through without hatewatching lol. Great discussion, I hope future guests can take notes

[@texsarc5861]

This is one of the best Group Up!'s I've ever seen.

[@vopcracker3193]

This lineup for the pod feeling like swapping out Biden for Kamala Harris. Never let Custa near a mic ever again.

[@-.Outlaw.-]

Or Freedo

[@teencorn9169]

LMAO

[@Vaz_G]

Facts

[@aerostrafe1075]

You just low balled the swap so hard it hit me in the gut and I laughed a little.

[@daveed469]

You think Kamala Harris is good?

[@tazumajz2940]

I'm grinding that 6v6 code. It's so much fun and I feel like I can always have impact.

[@G005E-H0NK]

Does the code have a 20 min q time for dps, otherwise it isn't legit

[@tazumajz2940]

@@G005E-H0NK lol

[@megamecha100]

​@@G005E-H0NK they didn't implement a role queue system I don't think

[@G005E-H0NK]

So everyone played goats or it ain't legit

[@megamecha100]

@@G005E-H0NK lmao

[@dwoodward931]

I studied marketing in college and remember reading various stories from that class. I think Overwatch 2's marketing disaster will be in future marketing books to learn from.

[@akai_shuichi_x]

Honestly one of the best group up discussions ever

[@420skubi]

My only disagreement is Flats saying the Causal gamer needs streamers. Imo streamers are a nice....commodity? But not needed to enjoy games.

[@Blabbybike]

I was laughing at his stupidity when he said that casual players rely on streamers for ANYTHING.

[@revenge977]

@@Blabbybike they do though? sometimes streamers are the ones that introduce the game to those casual players.

[@jacques8823]

Streamers are for attracting kids. Adults that watch streamers probably already got into the game to be looking up streamers of that game.

[@DomenG33K]

Where else do people learn about the game? Its mostly the content creators where you are introduced to it?

[@420skubi]

@DomenG33K reddit, ads from KZbin, ads from steam, steam ques that show random games you might like. Or any other method used before streamers where a big thing really.

[@Ron742_]

Spilo looks like the type of guy who is about to sing "That one night / You made everything alright."

[@MRPINK-st4pm]

The random the office reference hahahaha

[@SALMON_OW]

As a small time Overwatch KZbin creator i really appreciate them going into Detail on how hard it is to make content now. You can go the educational route which can get you some views if you do it well, but you need to understand the game to a very deep level which can get really difficult if you dont have time to grind the game for 5 hours a day. You can have funny Overwatch moments which people dont want to watch, or you can dabble in drama/complaining or find unhingend and toxic players to make fun of which can pop off well but relies on you finding those which you might just not get for weeks on end. And even if you pop off like crazy and make the best content there is and you are the most popular overwatch creator there is, you still probably wont ever go above like 500k subs max. Flats is correct in understanding the balance doesnt matter right now, they need to find a healthy way to advertise the game and put their name out there again and show people this isnt just a battlepass simulator.

[@HelloFellowMellowMarshmallow]

That other dude's not here? MIRACLE I tell you!!!

[@Veriom01]

Frogger has really creative and entertaining content. He has a kind of running side story with funny chararcters and personalities that he makes, as well as the rivalries and in match 1 v 1's against other players

[@moisesramos1220]

I really appreciate some of the points and comments on this debate. For example Bogur had the same question about individual hero passives in the Tank debate of 2024. Freedo then responded in a non constructive way where as in this conversation SVB reiterated that same question and everyone’s option gave a more intellectual opinion on why it could or could not work. Great debate! No hate to Freedo, but try to keep him off these debates.

[@digdoug5125]

Absolutely incredible video start to finish. Very impatiently waiting for that Dev Blog c’mon its been a week and several days!!!

[@Swift_Titan3]

5v5, 6v6, it doesn't matter we need to get rid of roll passes and start adding passives to like characters off base, because it kills character design

[@justinsmith5169]

2:04:35 I want to mention this also happened with the fallout games when the fallout series came out. Lore is a huge selling point to video games. If you give games a story and an in world reason for doing the things they're doing, it always enhances the experience.

[@mitchu50]

No Freedo 🙏

[@ofrenic]

Or custa 🙏

[@QuiztressMadi]

Or Avril 🙏

[@urbimisko8078]

No one has converted me to 6v6 more than Freedo

[@CapitalSans]

@@ofrenicokay Custa is leagues more insufferable than freedo. I disagree with freedo but I don’t hate the guy at all.

[@rogue4340]

​@@QuiztressMadihe's fine

[@yougolplex]

Thank God you swapped out Freedo for Spilo literally saved this episode from being intolerable to goated

[@cappycubing8609]

Samito sounds like he's sponsored by the 6v6 code it's really funny

[@Junkfist]

Great point from SVB. If you're not enjoying the game, go try other stuff. I felt OW getting stale for me and just kept getting frustrated in most of my games. Took a fewdays off fully, played Diablo 4 for the majority of my gaming time and only hopped on OW when my girlfriend & 2 mates were on so we played as a team. Thoroughly enjoyed D4 and found myself having fun on OW again.

[@professordantehs]

Watched the whole thing.... man good talk

[@CrazyLegsjack]

"Keep playing games when they no longer find joy in them" LOL such a good description of OW :D

[@ofrenic]

I haven't played ow in about a month. Been playing valheim and bannerlord instead. So much happier it's wild haha

[@CrazyLegsjack]

@@ofrenic I play bannerlord great game. Looking forward to more conversion mods.

[@LeSobaMask]

Spilo just needs to be a mainstay on the more important podcasts.

[@Tsunder623]

15:45 Something to remember is that in overwatch 1, that WAS the casual game. There were no seasons, no new game modes, very slow maps and heroes. The events were literally just skins. For non competitive players, skins were basically the entire game, trying to collect them all and whatnot. It's the reason why skins are so much more engrained in overwatch culture than other games.

[@lash3873]

Overwatch not having a show while league of legends does makes absolutely no sense on paper.

[@jacobyarling1575]

This is the episode the devs need to watch and rewatch.

[@jacobbaartz7710]

"You can't finesse them enough; it's too big of a knob" - Spilo

[@henriquealvarenga9244]

This is the most goated cast we've had

[@njuns999]

What a crew, thanks SVB 🙏

[@OverwatchGamer420]

Stacked lineup good work svb

[@alecfrancis5631]

Thank god, finally some entertainment.

[@h2woah127]

Awe I wish near the end SVB would’ve mentioned the skins that paladins come out with. New cool skin, new voice lines, and new special effects for the characters abilities

[@atomickarate3421]

THEY DELIVERED WITH THIS ONE. The fair take podcast hosts. Love to see spilo.

[@thesquirtlesquad8446]

3:00:00 SVB not to mention that our Roadhog VA plays Megatron/Optimus at universal and is LITERALLY their VA lmao they missed the freebee. Rein spawning with Autobots rollout another freebee

[@Ashen_Crow]

Yay no freedo!!

[@rizaadon]

If they specifically want to add *variety* to the way YOU are able to play characters, rather than pickable passives they should add pickable abilities, like Paladins where you have a choice between 3 "Legendary Cards" that all change the way that the character is played in some way.

[@natedavis2944]

The most based squad to talk about the game

[@dononejeme1528]

IVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOREVER!! Im glad SVB brought it up in this podcast. Giving every hero one extra ability that is something you can swap for an existing ability would fundamentally change the game in a positive way. It adds depth while constantly changing the gameplay loop. What’s funny is that they already have it in the game with OW2 deleted campaign of different abilities. It’s all right there!! Kudos to SVB for bringing it up, now if only the devs could listen.

[@rizaadon]

If the devs were competent enough something akin to Paladins Legendary Cards would be really fun.

[@KingOfNebbishes]

That'd be like....talent trees. Can't do that, no no no.

[@Azrael_Xx_]

This was the best podcast in a while, great job all, amazing cast in this one.

[@MissSaintG]

I spent years following the lore of OW before I could play. I loved it so much. The cinematics were amazing and the voice line interactions and hero designs drew me in. Now there’s like, none of that and it’s so tragic.

[@masonfoster7954]

personally this is the most volatile tank season i’m either absolutely dominating beyond belief or i’m triple or quadruple counterswapped the entire game while getting flamed by my team and the enemy team and it’s a feeling i haven’t felt yet with overwatch. since playing since 2016 week 2 release i’ve never felt like never playing or finding another game to love like i do overwatch and it’s a sad feeling. always hoping the best for the future but personally i’m a 6v6er at this point the game felt more consistently good in that format.

[@Spika94]

6v6 being just "nostalgia" is the biggest horse shait I have ever heard as an argument. Launch Overwatch might be, but the format of 6v6 is not.

[@CJNight]

Upcoming franchise names were leaked awhile back: Overwatch Overwatch 2 Overwatch Coded Overwatch 358/2 days Overwatch Birth by Sleep Overwatch 3D: Dream Drop Distance Overwatch X Overwatch 3 Overwatch Melody of Memories And I even heard of a prequel series titled: Overwatch: Chain of Memories

[@anegg1464]

Im particularly excited for Coded and BbS

[@KH2lid0]

Honestly the cinematics means a lot to me it made me connect to the universe of the game, I remember in blizzcon 2019 I was more hyped from the cinematic more than the actual announcement

[@DokuDoki]

My tinfoil hat theory is that pickable passives were used to see which passives were most picked by which heroes to see what adjustments could the devs do in the future

[@kyunkun3584]

I hope you are wrong about this because if that was the intent I think that's overall a bad approach, especially with the particular passives they chose. I would not mind a pickable passive system, but I feel a well thought out system where each hero chooses between 3 passives tailored to them, where each passive has a use case and none of them are outright "best picks" would add a lot to the game. Especially it the tanks for passive options that helped with counter picks

[@victorkelly2470]

2:40:14 so true. I mean I still play every so often but I have this sunk cost fallacy bc I have thousands of hours and knowledge that I just feel bad leaving behind. The main reason I’m still apart of this community

[@sirrubensandwich]

Been waiting for one of these with any of these guys, fantastic episode

[@TheWatchOverOW]

Big fan of the podcast! Thanks for making some of the best Overwatch content around!

[@kawnTTV]

THIS IS THE BEST GROUP

[@timothy_b03]

Tbh SVB’s breakdown of DOTA 2’s pickable passives in OW2 sounds pretty fun

[@h2woah127]

It’s been a thing in paladins for a loooong time

[@pippo17173]

​@h2woah127 and unliked overwatch, it's build in it's core and counter swapping ain't a thing which is good because I can one trick all I want in causal.

[@h2woah127]

@@pippo17173 facts

[@brandonray4493]

Best line up for this I've seen

[@rizaadon]

Really liked the discussion about Overwatch 2's poor/lack of marketing.

[@kielmessersmith1956]

It's not you flats, playing giga tanks is only marginally more fun because it hasn't fixed the pain points. You still have to be fully locked in, 100% focused when playing tank or you just straight up lose. The giga buffs only exasperate the negatives of having 1 tank, even if it feels a little better to play tank now. 2 tanks was peak because you could rely on your fellow tank to pick up your slack or cover your fellow tanks weaknesses.

[@nash3timemvp]

Thank god no Custa.

[@brandonray4493]

And freedo

[@kellywilson137]

@@brandonray4493 I like Freedo because his takes are so braindead. Also not a Blizzard Shill - Dude named his channel YourOverwatch. His Destiny is tied to Overwatch not being shit.

[@LUCKIPUP]

noooo i wanted my nightmare blunt episode of AVRL,Custa,Freedo where they constantly just cap on the state of the game

[@gamist8166]

I remember when a Netflix series was leaked for Overwatch. Ahh, I had so much hope back then...

[@gidkid100]

I don't think it can be overstated how much of an effect the dream of going pro in overwatch has on a lot of people and their drive to play the game and get better. Now that this dream is dead there's no end goal to ranked unless you wanna reach the top. Once you've done that or reached what you feel is your peak, there's no more incentive to play or watch people play to get better, leading to less people watching.

[@agentwowza]

2:39:51 it felt like SVB was talking directly to me lol, this is exactly why I'm here.

[@luivergil4569]

Please never invite Freedo again, I know he's not here in this one but he's so insufferable

[@nahaight1373]

Anyone notice the content creators that criticized the game weren’t on the 100m thank you tweet😂

[@LeekyXIV]

Now this us a crew

[@lavitz3045]

This is seriously the best trio to have on here, I love this

[@nemil2898]

GREAT GUEST COMBO! Love it.

[@lukeaustin4465]

Instead of pickable passives they should add in talents tailored to each hero individually like in Paladins. An item shop in game would also be pretty good.

[@GoldenEricZWM]

you're spot on SVB, I have barely played the game at all all year, yet I tune into pretty much every one of these podcasts while at work lol

[@eddielopez6731]

I would like to see them do character specific passives that you could choose with trade offs. That feels like a fun and balanced way to have different play styles. Also no more base passives.

[@somepiffdank]

The biggest ball Blizzard dropped besides their game was them not making cinematics and making PVE missions instead.

[@zipppyyy1175]

i definitely agree with the whole how a person playing a game slowly views a game on like youtube i almost never watch gameplay videos of the games i play it’s almost exclusively of people involved talking about the games it’s just easier imo i can play or do whatever and just listen to what people think who enjoy that thing as much as you

[@avid-_-dsg3710]

ive been plying since ow1 beta. played the 6v6 mode for the first time the other day, i got a 6 man blade with a 5 man grav and they still suzued. I legitimately cried when i got potg , my heart raced in the first time in years. I’m tearing up thinking about it. That’s what makes me love overwatch, being able to express my skill WHILE my teammates express theirs. thank you for reading

[@lruddy8820]

i dont like passives in OW but i think what the OW team did with the pickable passive event was a great idea, they got to see what passives worked with what heroes and how people felt about them then they can take that and apply it to future buffs balances and reworks

[@jimb0072]

finally no idiots

[@incomplet1396]

The thing with overwatch is thet they make so much money that its crazy how little content we get