**Distortion MasterClass: The Truth About How Distortion Sounds**

[@pedrodepacas4335]

You can totally hear the diffraction when you move your hands next to your face. Bravo!!

[@SuperMcgenius]

A simple test without analyzer equipment using audience applause tracks can be a astounding Difference between speakers that have proper phase relationships compared to ones that do not.

[@ninguno1756]

Good one and you need know very well that track to use or check it up with good headphones

[@VillemVallimaa]

Yes. I'm a novice car SQ competitor and thats something I hope to get right one day in my car. At the moment it sounds like deepfrying chicken nuggets 😂

[@davevolz6138]

If it sounds like bacon frying, you know you’re in trouble

[@glenncurry3041]

While giving seminars on speaker design I would demonstrate mounting board reflections/ refractions by taking a piece of cardboard about the size of a speaker cabinet front and cut a slot in the middle. Then while talking to the group, place the piece in front of my mouth and stick my mouth through the slot and keep talking. The sound change to the group is immediately identifiable.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Great illustration.

[@tlpplacement9355]

Finally, a clear explanation on voicing and error correction. I looked at the before and after charts of some popular speakers, and Danny's mod maintains the voicing, whether it slopes up or down, or have a middle dip (BBC dip), if the basic engineering of the speaker is good. An example of that is Sonus Faber Electa Amator. But if the speaker is poorly engineered in the first place, the voicing will change after the mod. See the Klipsch RP-600M2. Of course, the characteristic of a speaker is more than just the shape of the frequency response curve, its sounds is also affected by many other factors, eg impedence and box resonance (spectral decay). Danny's mod always improves the performance of the speaker, but sometimes it may sound differently from its original voice.

[@gme10955]

I'm not going to name names, but there are certain audio KZbinrs out there that would benefit from some of Danny's experience and wisdom regarding speaker design and measurements, and learning the difference between voicing and error corrections.

[@TrueLies23]

Look forward to this. I asked you a few months ago about distortion and your response was excellent but left me wanting more information.

[@dannyrichie9743]

The second part really reveals a lot.

[@Rowuk2024]

Harmonics are ALWAYS multiples of the fundamental. A root note of C has the first harmonic 1 octave higher, the 3rd harmonic is 3 time that fundamental. Then comes 4x, 5x, 6x and so on. Theoretically there are unlimited harmonics for acoustic instruments. Now, harmonic distortion are "overtones" generated by the electronics/speaker. This has nothing to do with what the acoustic instruments created. They are also multiples of the frequencies in the recording. Harmonic distortion changes the timbre of all of the instruments. Even a subwoofer with a cutoff of 80 Hz will produce harmonic distortions up to 800 Hz. This is because the cone generates this distortion.

[@iampuzzleman282]

This is terribly insightful I'm guessing you really know what the hell you're talking about. I hope your neighbors appreciate you as well as your family

[@iampuzzleman282]

this is why I like tube amplifiers cause I think the harmonics end up coming through a lot better

[@pedrodepacas4335]

True. I have some pictures rattling on the wall. That’s a nasty distortion.

[@CashGravel]

that needed to be cleared up. danny is not a musician. ftm when i play loud the piano and harp in the room resonate all sorts of frequencies.

[@pedrodepacas4335]

@ that’s unwanted resonances and Danny addresses that in the speaker.

[@alexw890]

A master class. Thanks Danny. The most important part imo is at 44:00, explaining how the fundamentals are generally unaffected but the harmonics are not. This was an aha moment for me.

[@paulpaulzadeh6172]

Very nice Danny, love it when you 🗑 trashed other brands for bad engineer with high-end prices, all these expensive brand selling on old meriter when measurements was not possible 😊

[@sebastianhasbun3846]

This is a concept that I wish we discussed more. Most of the namebrand “heritage hifi” companies got away with mediocre engineering and workmanship because there weren’t entities like GR research scientifically proving why/how they were screwing people

[@richh650]

Thank you Danny for the very clear yet thorough explanations. So many need to watch this video.

[@TallGermanBoy]

Good job making this stuff intelligible! I finally feel like I understand what you are talking about in your other videos! Also, I recognize so many things you talk about from some vintage speakers I have owned over the last year 😂

[@mabehall7667]

From what I’ve read, there are no harmonics and therefore no harmonic distortion below the fundamental frequency. With regard to tube amplifiers, before solid state, the goal of tube design was to reduce distortion AND for a while after solid state, it was to produce a more solid state sound. Now we have audiophiles pushing tube amps and vinyl. I suppose different strokes for different folks but if it were so good, it could be accomplished in the recording studio.

[@νικοςνικολαου-τ9φ]

your videos lead me to my next hi-end system.I appreciate this.

[@cigarobsession]

Love these talks! Thank you!

[@The340king]

So many people think that distortion is loudness. They can't differentiate between SPL and distortion. They crank it up until they hear distortion, thinking that means loud.

[@brentwalker8596]

One of the most maddening aspects of home audio is that we are dealing with an extremely complex, multi-variable environment system. Each component in an audio system produces its own distortion: the source, amplifier, cables, speakers, and listening room. These components also interact with each other to produce a final audio experience. No wonder there is so much passionate debate about whether or not piece of equipment "A" makes a difference.

[@jamesmansion2572]

What distortion do you expect from cables? And what is the relative magnitude of those?

[@kevinjosefsson]

zero and zero​@@jamesmansion2572

[@Munakas-wq3gp]

In reality the front end (not even mentioning cables) are all super high quality compared to most speakers. It's trivial to make an amp that's 0.1db flat from 20hz to 20khz but try that with a speaker? It won't happen no matter how much money you pour in it, unless you listen in an anechoic chamber.

[@Billblom]

@Munakas-wq3gp The "other end" of the sound path can also provide dramatic differences in what you hear. In other words... put 4 matched pairs of mikes in front of an orchestra and see what you get. I did that while I was the recordist for the Florida Orchestra. We had a pair of AKG 414's... a pair of AKG 461s, a pair of B&K omni studio mikes, and a pair of Sennheiser mikes along with 4 DATs capturing a performance to see what sounded best. We had 4 commercial grade DAT recorders doing the capture... Set levels, and just let things roll. (set on tuning: down 30 db from clipping.) -- Everything flat. Results: the 414 pair was set on Cardioid. The 414 is a multipattern mike that uses 3 capsules to select omni, cardioid , or figure 8 pattern. The 461 is a pencil style mike with cardioid capsules. The B&K were omni mikes, hung about 5 feet closer to the orchestra and about 6 feet apart ... the Sennheiser mikes were set as a coincident pair between the B&K mikes. The recordings were done.. and then the conductor, myself, and the entire orchestra recording committee went to the high end audio shop in Tampa. The differences between the recordings were dramatic. Starting with the B&Ks... a wonderful silky sound on the strings. However, no detail on anything percussion wise. Brass was also muted sounding. The 414's had issues with phasing at the edge of their pattern, resulting in smearing of the harp at the far left side of the orchestra... And odd things off to the right on the double basses... The 461 pair were no where near as smeary... Detailed and good sound. The Sennheiser mikes were "raspy" compared to the 3 other sets. Generally good sound, but there were some oddities. Was my first time working with the B&Ks and Sennheiser mikes. Finding the level of difference we did was dramatic. The problem: the moment you start adding additional mikes (like the 60 miles that got used on the Berlin Philharmonic) you have zero imaging.

[@Corndog642]

@@jamesmansion2572 Cables can distort timing information. Different frequencies can be slowed by the wire insulation as well as the geometry of the cable. This causes a slight blurring or muting of some frequencies. For most people, this just isn’t considered a problem. For high resolution systems it can improve the coherence and dynamics of playback.

[@1mctous]

Harry Olson's late 1950s listening tests showed that 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion must be at least 2% to be audible through speakers. We can hear higher-order harmonics at lower levels.

[@chrisjacques5580]

thanks Danny, learned a lot, more please

[@dannyrichie9743]

Wait until you see part 2.

[@shodan6401]

I really believe that the advent of DSP is a HUGE improvement in Speaker technology. Once you know how to properly measure and configure DSP, it becomes an Active Crossover. At that point, you don't even need the Passive Crossovers in your Speakers. With good FIR Filters, you control Phase, you can add delay to any Driver for Time Alignment, plus X-Over Slope, and Freq. Response with no internal physical components. AND any Room Curve.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Been there done that. It is not what you think. They come with their own bottlenecks. How they sound is dictated by the D/A converter, power supply, and analog output stages of the digital devices. Some of the cheaper ones sound like a $49 CD player sold at Walmart about 10 years ago.

[@naturalverities]

Am there, doing that. Carefully and intelligently done, allows multiway horns to achieve high end audiophile sound quality, as everyone who hears my system attests. Wave of the future.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@ It can correct for driver offset and time alignment if you are at a fixed point. But if you move, it can all change. It also then sounds only as good as the gear that you are using. In most cases that is the real bottleneck.

[@FonsVanWiemeersch]

Best vid ever Danny! Can’t wait for the sequel.

[@danieljones8587]

VPMS, four letters I haven't heard in a while. RIP Brian

[@paulgyro]

Danny your assertions about the Wharfedale Linton are true without the grill. With the grill on it measures great evidenced by the measurements Erin has published. It was designed to be used with the grill on. Seeing you yourself did an analysis and a mod kit for the speaker I would assume you would known this.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

Wow you took me down memory lane of buying amplifiers based on THD, and you're right way back when, the salesman would point out how low the THD was on this amplifier versus that one as a sales tool. The way you described distortion I was imaging it being much like a rock being thrown into a still pond. You have the big splash that is the main note, and some little ripples around it. Different rocks would produce different ripple patterns and heights.

[@joewlodynski3521]

I learned a lot in this video. Thank You Danny.

[@jon1810]

Masterful work Dannyboy!

[@davidhester9897]

Great info Danny, I've experimented with some of my vintage speakers with those big wide baffles. One is a ESS tower speaker the AMT-3 Rock Monitors, they have 2 - 10" woofers in each cabinet with a 6.5" midrange and a big Heil tweeter sitting on top of the cabinet. I put a sheet of 1/4" felt around the midrange and listened to that and was amazed how much better it sounded just by killing those surface reflections from that wide 15" baffle. Then I made some 3" roundovers on the front and back edges of the Heil tweeter to smooth out the diffraction there and wow, it sounds like a totally different speaker, I just thought it imaged well before. I need to go inside the cabinet now and add some bracing and order some No Rez from you and it will then improve the low end so much but man I'm blown away from just what I have already done.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Yes Sir, people just don't realize how much the surface reflections and the edge diffract distorts the sound. It cause time and phase distortions as well as amplitude distortions. You did a good job. cabinet resonances are covered in the next one. Killing those is huge too.

[@pedrodepacas4335]

@@davidhester9897 Bose cubes have none of these issues. Pick up an acoustimass system.

[@viiideeeooo]

Danny, do you have anything to add on even order vs. odd order harmonic distortion? I've read in the past the even order harmonics are much less offensive than odd order harmonics.

[@dannyrichie9743]

They are still a drop in the bucket compared to other types of distortion.

[@glenncurry3041]

Tube amps when pushed tend to compress and that causes even order harmonics. They are musically related to the source usually just making the sound fatter. While solid state amps tend to just clip, flat cut off, when pushed. This is harsh, higher frequency odd order harmonics.

[@Projacked1]

I find those baffle edges sounding exactly as they look , you can hear a frame around the image on certain frequencies or bands.

[@rd1992-l3j]

After hearing what a properly set up component audio system could do, I saved and sacrificed to purchase separate components and clean, linear sounding speakers. My goal was to play rock and soul music at loud levels without audible distortion. Of course, everything about music is subjective and one person's junk is another person's treasure.

[@Munakas-wq3gp]

Invest into room acoustics if you want truly good sound. Room reverberation and modes are the main killers of sound.

[@rd1992-l3j]

@Munakas-wq3gp You are spot on!

[@dannyrichie9743]

@Munakas-wq3gp Hey, that information is cover in the next episode.

[@Kukkema]

Could you do a video on basic, not too expensive, room treatment ?🙏🏻

[@dannyrichie9743]

A new one on that is coming.

[@PSA78]

I'm not sure if you have access to tools, but it is something that's relatively easy to make at home. There's both good suggestions online as well as some software. 🙂

[@fonkenful]

@@dannyrichie9743I fondly remember Ron’s very detailed series - including excellent sound clips - of the construction and treatment evolution of his sound shed. It was masterpiece.

[@Aswaguespack]

@@dannyrichie9743That would be great. I have just a bit more than a basic knowledge of room treatments. I also realize that some companies that design such treatments sell products that are more visually appealing but do very little towards achieving actual results. I attend a church that is very old, Spanish stone masonry was used in the basic architecture and construction but boy the sound in the church is absolutely horrible. Even human speech with amplification is almost incomprehensible. People think let’s just turn up the volume on the mics and it’s even worse and they don’t know why. You can sit 10 feet from a speaker and not understand more than 3 out of 10 spoken words. And singing is even worse. They got a company come in. Spent a bunch of money for thin pretty panels than didn’t achieve anything. 🤦🏻‍♂️ So I’m really interested in this topic. Thanks Danny

[@Kukkema]

@@dannyrichie9743 🙏🏻

[@donnieb.6356]

Outstanding video!

[@damianzaninovich4900]

Very interesting and well explained. I like 3 way floor standers that show real craftsmanship and look beautiful. Something like a Focal 1038be which now cost 5-6 grand or a Sonus Faber Cremona which go for about 4. I like what I have, the Canton Vento Reference 7 1st generation bought on a closeout for 3 grand. They’re already 3 generations beyond but these look cool and are the perfect maximum size for my room and sound good with all the music I play, no tone control adjustments. I bi- wire which keeps the signal to the tweeter and mids away from the caps filtering the infrasonic bass. I use all locking bananas and interconnects. Blue Jean and Worlds Best interconnects, not expensive. I know you don’t care for metal drivers but they have excellent clarity to my ears. Suspended floors require speakers with more bass, bookshelf size don’t cut it. I agree with all your opinions otherwise.

[@petertimp5416]

Appreciate your time and knowledge. Thanks.

[@gme10955]

I'm not going pretend I understood everything Danny was talking about, but I understand a lot more than I did before about measurements and distortion, and why certain measurements are important. I fell into the just trust your ears camp for many years, and I'm not saying now, to not trust your ears, but knowing how a speaker measures can save you a lot of grief, and keep you from chasing your tail trying to fix other things in your system or room, that are not at fault. Thank you Danny for putting this series together.

[@Mrsteve4761]

If a large, flat, wide baffle causes considerable diffraction, might there be a way with acoustically absorbent material, such as felt or similar, to at least reduce these reflections? I gather it depends as I sometimes see this in practice to varying degrees, and other instances not at all.

[@dannyrichie9743]

You can for some ranges. It depends on the wavelength as to the effect.

[@robertmoi8400]

Great stuff. I would like to correct you on a small issue. Harmonics of electronic signal distortion and harmonics of an acoustic instruments are different things. When an electrical audio signal deforms, it creates harmonics at specific frequencies depending on the type of deformation. The harmonic distortions of a sine wave produced by or through an electronic equipment are what is measured in order to determine how much an equipment deforms the signal. Am not sure but I think acoustic instruments harmonics is as a result of the string or membrane of drums continuing to vibrate after the fundamental note. On you next video you should mention distortions in speaker drivers, e.g. distortions from eddy currents, varying inductances as voice-coil repeatedly changes from being an air-core to an iron-core. Also mention hysteresis from iron core and ferromagnetic parts and distortion from various capacitors , especially electrolytics.

[@dannyrichie9743]

I was using the examples as a generalization.

[@ianbigsand7]

Maybe I've got this wrong, but it appears that Danny is talking about intermodulation distortion but calls it harmonic distortion. Both are a result of an imperfect transfer response. A single tone, f1, will have harmonics at 2f1, 3f1 and so on. Two close tones, f1 & f2, will have their own harmonics and extra intermodulation distortion elements: f1 plus the difference between f1 and f2, and f1 minus the difference between f1 & f2. The amplitude of those added elements is determined by the linearity of the system. In complex audio with so many components within it, it will be a sea of hash added to the input signal. I haven't a clue what it would sound like other than as a loss of clarity. In a former life we would measure rf amplifier performance and it had to be good to satisfy the specifications so that the IPs (intermodulation products) didn't sit on top of other low level signals.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@ Yes, but all of that is the least altering of the different types of distortion when it comes to actual audibility.

[@robertmoi8400]

​​@@dannyrichie9743 Yeah it's usually not audible at low levels but can be nasty at high levels e.g clipping at the electronics. People usually don't know that usually the dac clips first before the amplifier especially if there is no preamp in the chain. Also I think what happens to the sound after it leaves the speaker cannot be categorized as distortion since it mostly affects amplitude. You can here a difference between a crappy sounding speaker and high-end speaker from a different room though you would only be listening to reflections. Baffle diffraction and room reflections affect amplitude but doesn't deform the sound. Using eq to affect amplitude of certain frequencies cannot be categorized as adding distortion even though it changes amplitude of the frequency from original. We can thus say distortion is changing the shape of the wave form and not amplitude.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@ While you can EQ amplitude issue, it won't fix the real problem that it was a time arrival issue that caused it to start with.

[@peterw2714]

Very well explained, thanks again Danny

[@tongleongsim9202]

👍 from Singapore.

[@samgates2059]

Nice video, I really enjoyed it. What about correcting phase with digital filters?

[@dannyrichie9743]

When you do that you step into a whole new can or worms with a lot of other problems to deal with.

[@Tom-xg1kj]

If you grab your bong and popcorn, you will understand.

[@JohnLnyc]

And your headphones!😂

[@scottkasper6378]

Done

[@SuperMcgenius]

Regarding tube amps, a 100 watt tube amp plays peaks as well as a 200 watt transistor amp in my real life Experience. I’m not advocating tube versus solid-state just sharing my experience.😊

[@jamesmansion2572]

I think there is an issue with the description of 'baffle reflections' and the size of the baffle. Specifically: the different effects of the front baffle (radiating off the baffle itself), and the edges of that baffle (radiating at the edges where omni-directional is wrapping around). Assume we read Olson and understand: - the transition from omnidirectional 4Pi to 2Pi, and thence to beaming - that in the case where we have omnidirectional (4Pi) radiation, the wavelengths are large compared to the baffle, and necessarily huge compared to any radius that might be on the edges - a tweeter may radiate before beaming (ie trying to be omnidirectional) with wavelengths that are not enormously bigger than a radius we might put on the edges of the baffle Consider the extreme case - infinite baffle. 2Pi radiation across frequencies (below beaming). How much radiation and time smear are we expecting from that infinite baffle? Its a measuring standard. This is effectively an in-wall installation, with a crossover that reflects that - no baffle step guesswork. I postulate that this is 'a good situation' and, even if there is some 2Pi radiation from all points of the baffle, that's so low and so decoupled from the main signal that its a non issue. After all, the alternative is the effects of: - higher frequencies from the mid/woofer that are low enough to be omnidirectional being reflected from the wall behind (assume very low frequencies are just pressure, with wavelengths massively bigger than driver to wall) - low in-passband frequencies from the tweeter and high in-passband from the mid (if not beaming at crossover) being re-radiated from the cabinet edge with propagation delay, as if a line source of sorts Both of which cause time-delay issues with frequency dependent phase differences and this causes summations and cancellations and response ripple. From that point of view, there must be a compromise where a wide, shallow speaker with a reasonable radius on the edge - and potentially some felt attenuation - that is on-wall (not in-wall) should tend towards the behaviour of in-wall as it gets wider and shallower. Very wide and very shallow is asymptotically going to infinite baffle, with a fudge around edges and radius thereof that infinite doesn't need. As the baffle gets wider, the edge re-radiations have lower relative intensity (from attenuation from distance, especially if som re-radiation is happening from the baffle surface) and are more decoupled time-wise, even if there is no edge radius treatment. I propose that means that baffle width itself is not a terrible enemy. Wide baffles with sharp corners placed away from the wall behind - your mileage may vary. In short - its not the baffle. Its the edges. How far they are from the source, and how far from the wall behind. Unless there is a case to be made that infinite baffle is terrible - I've never heard that though. I thing the pebble analogy is wrong - 'off the surface and sometimes off the edges' - really? If that was the case the discussion about being equidistant from the edges would be borderline irrelevant (because its the area, not the to-edge distance). Saying 'surface reflections' as the main thing, rather then the edges, does not appear to translate to IEC baffle, in-wall, and 2Pi. Or any focus on positioning from edges. I think its an error, or the effects would be at their worst on an infinite baffle - which I believe is generally considered an optimum reflection- and diffraction-free environment. If there are academic works that show that infinite baffle is the worst case - and I don't think Olson addresses this - then I'd be interested to read it.

[@dannyrichie9743]

If all of that were true then the most ideal placement of the drivers would in a wall. Yet, for sound stage laying, imaging, and transparency, that configuration is the worst.

[@jamesmansion2572]

@@dannyrichie9743 Indeed. But its how we measure things with an IEC baffle. Where's the (engineering) evidence for that statement? If there is significant re-radiation from an 'infinite baffle' then I'd expect interference artifacts in the on-baffle measurements, and some academic studies to justify it. In the spectral decay plots shown (not for the Linton, I see) you say 'surface and sides' (by which I assume edges, especially where raised), but all we see is energy, not the source of it, and from some speakers with dubious cabinet quality. I have no quibble with the cabinet edge diffraction (and driver edge), its quite understood. Where is the evidence of the comb filtering and spectral decay artifacts on infinite/IEC baffle - it should show in the frequency response and spectral decay of ALL drivers measured that way. What is the model for how much re-radiation there is at radius r from the source? We've seen you talk about accelerometer measurements on the cabinet surfaces, I recall them being cabinet resonances, where were the fundamentals of this so-called 'reflection'? What is the physics of this works, and which of the many CAD tools model it, and where the measurements are to support all this?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@ I've gone over most of that in the last two video's and explained it. If you know how to read and understand the spectral decay plots then you know where the decay is coming from. Moving the speaker to 10 degrees or more off axis and measuring it again then looking at the spectral decay to compare can confirm. Also adding some felt to the sides of a baffle and shooting it again can confirm the baffle as a source. When drivers are measured on an infinite baffle most of the reflections go past the mic on the left of right. So they don't show up. But in the off axis they do. You can also see the change in response when going from an infinite baffle to a small baffle. Sometimes the response is much different when the baffle gets smaller. It looses that reinforcement. It is easy to take those measurements. We do t all the time.

[@BostonMike68]

Thanks for taking the time to make this video i really enjoyed it. I was wondering the best way to test for harmonic distortion without a anechoic chamber?

[@jamestyrer907]

IIUC, from what you said and what I have read, square corners on the front of the box cause serious distortion. The largest roundover router bit available is 1.5 inch. It would require a large router and probably a router table. The box is going to require filler strips in the corners since this bit will cut all the way through 0.75 inch panels. Have you done experiments to see how much improvement this will make and should all the corners be rounded?

[@RobertNewman-m3y]

For the most part, speaker measurements provide very little information about distortion. This is because the industry standard is to measure at just one watt! Real world performance is often very different to what measurements show because speaker manufacturers routinely use cheap, under spec-ed drivers that cannot perform well at higher power levels. They get away with this because much of the critical analysis is made at just one watt. Marketing people boast about ‘high excursion’ but this almost always comes with higher, audible distortion. Distortion also comes with heat, because heat affects conductivity, magnet strength and causes a voice coil to expand. Yet marketing people often boast about things like titanium voice coil formers, which are poor at dissipating heat. Because everyone measures at just one watt, thermal problems are rarely noticed or addressed. My guess for the mystery distortion is: room modes. Standing waves between walls (or floor/ceiling) can almost completely cancel sound at a node and this often results in big 50+dB swings depending on where you are in the room. Standing waves are a form of stored energy. As sound bounces between walls our perception of the direction of origin is confused, actually in an anechoic environment it is easy to tell the direction from which low frequencies came from, but the presence of standing waves makes this impossible. A standing wave also means the phase is inverted between one side of a room and another. Standing waves are usually addressed by, reducing low frequencies to mono, moving multiple subwoofers around and manipulating time delays/phase - basically fighting distortion with distortion - until the room is better balanced and sounds less bad.

[@matytinman]

SPECTACULAR video 🥳. You would be a great teacher.

[@gtric1466]

Danny, that was the best explanation of all the artifacts mentioned i have ever heard. Most Appreciated.

[@peterw2714]

I would be very interested to see what you can come up with with little to no budget constraints. I’m looking for a well engineered great imaging speaker in the $10-$20,000 range.

[@dannyrichie9743]

See our NX Series models and the new models that I am doing with New Record Day.

[@peterw2714]

@ yes I seen those, I’m looking for a full range speaker. The larger versions of the “aria” look intriguing. Servo subs should certainly make these full range.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@peterw2714 Out NX-Otica and NX-Treme are a four piece, full open baffle speaker. They play flat to 20Hz. How is that for full range?

[@peterw2714]

@@dannyrichie9743 your own website says of the extremes. “The -3db of the bottom end will vary from room to room and can be as low as low 40’s or as high as mid 70’s.” Your other speaker goes to down to 50 hz according to your website info. Not sure why you say both go flat down to 20 Hz.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@ Again, they are a four piece speaker. The servo controlled woofers are used for the bottom end. They produce the cleanest, fastest, and best sounding bottom end in the industry, and yes, they play flat to 20Hz.

[@garganega]

Going forward could you please show these principles in wave forms?

[@garganega]

For harmonic distortion, I mean.

[@howardkleger]

I have the classic henry kloss large advent speakers. The face is sunken in, so why are they known for low distortion?

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

I get the sentiment of "living through it", but not missing it, I don't think I will ever reach that place. I often think I am too old to ride now. Mostly because I would still do stupid stuff, but my reflexes aren't what they were (slow reflexes and a litre sports bike equals dead), so part of me wants to get the bike running again, and part of me thinks my wife would be much happier if I never rode it again.

[@jtee9548]

Damn it's early. Either you or your editor need more sleep. You said grab some popcorn!? Dude, it's like 6:50am on a Sunday.

[@TrueLies23]

Dude, chill out. These videos are forever, not for the upload time.

[@BehindthesafetyofLinux]

Feels like for most people, they would be better off doing impedance sweep measurements instead of microphone measurements. An impedance sweep is going to pick up a lot of these distortions and make them understandable as long as you can read the impedance and phase response chart. I have yet to hear an impedance sweep improvement that did not make massive improvements to sound regardless of other design factors.

[@glenncurry3041]

Regarding harmonic distortion. There is one more related to speakers than electronics. Doubling. When a driver is pushed too hard it tends to break up and cause energy at double the original. A bigger problem in lower frequency drivers like woofers and subs. But it would often be an above noise floor 2nd harmonic.

[@dougb5028]

Thanks Danny., good explanation and examples. How about Intermodulation distortion?

[@robsandler1818]

Excellent explanations and examples. Would be really cool to hear recorded examples of both accurate reproduction and each kind of distortion so that we can improve our ability to better distinguish one type of distortion from another?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Sound clips won't capture the effect of many types of distortion because the effect is in imaging, and layering. That is lost in the recording. This is particularly true for time domain distortions.

[@jamesoneil9757]

I think in the case of a compression driver we can see a pronounced increase in harmonic distortion when the driver is played too low, or played below the horn cut off. If I play a pure tone and ramp up the volume and use RTA, I believe I can see and hear this distortion, just using REW in room. The design of the crossover may be subtle, but the threshold of distortion of combined volume and /or out of band frequency is quite pronounced. I think.

[@raynerstuelgalid]

Good one.

[@21stcenturybohemian]

Graphs are great and all, but it would be nice if you could provide some actual audio examples of the things you talk about. With the extraordinary resolution and fidelity of today's digital recording technology, surely you can capture audible differences that can be uploaded with the videos, even though KZbin might not be the best at preserving minute detail in audio tracks. For example, if you say a design has audible ring or smearing, and your new crossover fixes that, can you not actually capture that change?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Only some things can be captured in an audio clip. Changes in amplitude are clear and in resolution. However, most of the things that I discussed are distortions in the time domain. So it effects where things are in the sound stage. You recorded audio clip doesn't capture that. It is like taking a three dimensional event and copying it into a two dimensional event. It becomes what you play it back on and not how a particular speaker reproduced it.

[@andysummersthxcinemaandmyc7748]

would be better if do this again with oscilloscope and RTA , tested denon x8500h on highs at certain sine wave on the scope i noticed wave form going jagged edge , kinder like that thriller movie , jagged edge , strange ? often i see a reversed harmonic , sine is at the upper higher end and i hear see RTA the distortion below the sine fundamental tone 16:50 i think i be able to plot it , first check a scene on a movie and play it over and over direct RTA of certain channel and then mic up the in room up close and play the same again over and over more times before you would even get blue in the face until i start seeming harmonic appearing within the frequency 20:19 depends if HF horn as the diaphragm has to be polarity reversed so it moves inwards towards the phase plug as the dome is facing the opposite way when same used in a JBL is facing towards and time delay on horn is adjusted so its roughly around same distance to the bass LF driver and the two mics used one on HF other on LF and when the two signals sum and RTA looks spot on , also same when tested direct electronically on a THX and THX was first done in texas is where they did it , return of the jedi , yep i use the famous THX and it doesn't need to be altered lol Tom Holman is the man of the ultimate power in the universe also two mics on the HF horns , never be frequency perfect unless i had thousands of PEQ narrow band filters and not these rubbish home theatre Eq's that are nowhere near to what i require 20,200 bands to tackle each sine wave tone and adjust them so the speaker is electronically Eq flat , there is no , if's , buts voting or debating about this with the rubbish dirac live , its still cutting corners and i find that depressing , but doing it , you know do it with what is on hand at present with whatever Eq smoothing used , the two speakers Freq will not overlap transparently they'll still have bands and the two mic need to be checked , the direct freq measured from the amplifiers will be the most transparent or little adjustments needs to be done , speakers are a total mess anyway feeding my cats is more paramount than this speaker rubbish to me end of the day this is nothing more than a pack of immaterial of electronics , , i think those JBL 4312 are good enough for my cat to lay on , i use them for , screw dolby labs spec atmos rules , i use them for height surrounds on the floor , sod dolby labs outdated speaker specs most of which date back to 1940 the layout not much changed and overheads ? they been in use in some cinemas since 1969 , now then !

[@elizabethmcginnis4322]

Thank you for this! Very informative

[@GREGBT69]

Wow! Didn't know that you was in Plymouth. I'm in Oak Park. I have a pair of Definitive Technology D11 I wanted you to check out.

[@ItsPainnz]

i emailed patric catani aka de cologne and maybe its hard to translate this basically explains what i meant when I said I want to eliminated certain distortions in the recording of the eradicator - titan (gabber) track, the tapes suffered and so possibly did the mix as a result

[@barney6888]

Even Uncle Kevvy admits it; it's all about scratching every single penny OUT of the cost of what sells. What sells? It's loud and looks the way I want it to look. What's a good speaker? One that is designed with sound engineering theory and built by craftsmen that put their name and reputation on the result. You want to pay 100 grand for Wilson speakers? It's because you want to impress colleagues. You don't know music from a Moose's arse. Audio cannot ever reproduce live performances, especially acoustic (classical orchestras), it can only simulate. The audio industry is a massive fraud and all because a "fool and his money are soon departed".

[@miltystu2004]

Don't wait too long for follow up vids. 👍

[@dannyrichie9743]

The second part is done. It is just a matter of releasing it.

[@SonofHannder]

Good stuff, thanks man 👍🏼👍🏼

[@bakeone4406]

In the video, the speaker, (maybe a GR Research Bully) behind Danny has A LOT of baffle surface on one side of the top two drivers...can't help wondering how this much baffle surface doesn't cause the kind of reflection (or diffraction) issues that are often mentioned on this channel.

[@JR-ho5qm]

The mids and tweets are offset to help in this. However every speaker is a compromise. Danny built the Bully and the Brute because people asked for a “old school” speaker. Yes they have a wide baffle but they are a really fun speaker and do some things extremely well especially for a big dynamic speaker.

[@dannyrichie9743]

I love it that you asked about that. I start off the next part of the series with those issues again and that speaker that is right behind me. Don't miss it.

[@mr.george7687]

I do not know why I love the sound of my vintage JBL L100's knowing you rated them as one of the worst ever. Must be the effects of all the drugs I did in my 70's Stoner days!

[@BostonMike68]

People get used to the sound of whatever speakers they are listening to. Until they hear a properly designed speaker they don't know anything else

[@ctrlzyx2]

They have ample bass, 3 drivers, and the simplest crossover you could configure. People love the mishmash they put out, even while knowing they are inaccurate. There is a KZbinr who replaced the crossover with various modern approaches and concluded it barely worked for the L100. Put another way, speaker and driver design has evolved significantly since these were made.

[@shodan6401]

Klippel Acoustic Measurements are extraordinarily accurate. Even Bass Frequencies are surprisingly good. Yet even with accurate Bass Frequencies, those Bass Frequency Measurements often become largely irrelevant once a Speaker is placed in a room, because the room dominates. Measurements are very reliable.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Actually those measurements are technically not accurate. They are summed averages.

[@stephenyoud6125]

Difficult subjects to explain, especially the Harmonic distortion, but the others I found were more clearly explained. Great job Danny.

[@LeonFleisherFan]

I'm bothered by the use of the term "Total Harmonic Distortion" (and hence a THD number in sales blurb). 5-10% of 2nd order distortion, while audible, will sound "tubey", but isn't a dealbreaker, whereas 0.1% of 7th order would make a product completely unlistenable. The problem is of course the attribute "Total", disregarding the type of distortion and the sensitivity of humans to different types of harmonic distortion. We're not microphones. To give an example, Kondo's legendary Ongaku is advertised as a 27 Watt amplifier, but uses 211 tubes that according to the data sheet produce a maximum of 19.7 Watts at 1% distortion. The power rating of that isn't "wrong", it merely points to the fact that even-ordered distortion may be irrelevant as long as odd-numbered harmonic distortion is inaudible. In short, DHT as an additive value won't even tell the user whether or not he or she is going to hear ANY distortion at all.

[@raymaksimavicius4902]

Thanks Danny. I agree wirh everything you expained regarding speaker distortion. One thing which I do not agree with you is the phase response. The only way to see if all your, lets say 3 drivers in a speaker are in phase with each other is with a STEP response measurement . I MUST LOOK LIKE A PERFECT TRIANGLE. IF NOT THE THREE SPEAKERS ARE NOT IN PHASE WITH EACH OTHER PERIOD.!!!!😮. Please respond thanks.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Not necessarily. They can be in phase at the crossover points, but not be time and phase coherent.

[@raymaksimavicius4902]

Hi Danny . Thanks for your response. I learned about the step response curve in Tech school. The response must have a smooth triangular response which will comfirm that all the drivers are in phase and time aligned. This is confirmed by Engineer John Atkinson and the famous speaker designer Richard Vandersteen. On his website , Richard Vandersteen discusses measurements and the step response which verfies the speaker is time and phase correct. I hope you will explain this in your next video talking about speaker distortions and measurements. This is so important to preserve the original sound source signal. Thank you. Ray.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@ Yep, all of that is good stuff. Sometimes dialing in a speaker to be both time and phase correct also comes with some penalties as well. Sometimes the measuring point at which they are time and phase correct becomes very limited. That means moving up or down slightly kills the alignment and causes comb filtering (cancellation). Then the room response is a bit of a mess.

[@raymaksimavicius4902]

Hi Danny. I think the trade off is minimal and for this reason the Vandersteen model 2 is the best selling hi fi speaker of all time, over 200000 pairs sold worldwide.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@raymaksimavicius4902 You would think that but we get MUCH better imaging from one of our inexpensive kits like our X-LS Encore. There is much more at play.

[@yuckysamson]

Danny is the John Danaher of loudspeakers. For multiple reasons.

[@rothgartheviking858]

Great video thank you.

[@21stcenturybohemian]

Oh, hey, in case you read this, have you had a gasto-endoscopic test done? I ask, because you seem to have a bit of an "gassy diaphragm" (those little burp bubbles when you are speaking) issue that causes me to wonder if you might have a stomach/esophageal ulcer, even if it is not yet noticeable from a comfort perspective.

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Noticed the same symptoms 😮

[@sudd3660]

almost no one is eating healthy, meat stuff and also taking drugs.

[@dannyrichie9743]

I live a very healthy lifestyle, but I do have allergy issues. I also shot all of this right after lunch.

[@21stcenturybohemian]

@ You do look pretty fit, I agree. Noticed that too. Are you always doing the vids right after you eat? The issue is present in almost all your vids. It was the frequency of occurrence that cause me to take note. I meant to comment on it a while ago. Even post meal, it seems a bit unusual. Might be worth checking out.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@ I have shot a lot of videos right after lunch. I need to quit doing that.

[@xprcloud]

The most obnoxious distortions are INTERMODULATION distortion, You have your female singer being modulated by bass. and under biased Class-B amps with notch crossover distortion at especially at low volumes (When the waveform crosses polarity, not applicable to class-D, pure class-A, and Tube P-P ), surprising how many class-AB amps out there have become out of spec, or out of box under biased (looking at you Behringer crap). Harmonic Distortion is much more tolerated in Bass notes and twitter notes 8Khz+ for

[@viiideeeooo]

Great video overall, anyone who wants to get the most out of your speaker mod videos should be watching this, especially your comments at the end. If I had to guess, I'd say the most egregious form of distortion is human bias. The human brain can easily be influenced by price tags, marketing, visual appearance, and personsl opinion among other things.

[@jdlech]

The average human hearing is also terribly distorting. By the time we're 30, and can afford high end equipment, our hearing is already the weakest link in the system. And it only gets worse from there.

[@petertimp5416]

RE: speaker mounting: Does that mean those ppl who have speakers mounted in a ‘wall’ and large space behind them (like an infinite baffle) is not a good idea? Or is it ok for low frequency? (Have to move high, mids out into the room?) cheers.

[@dannyrichie9743]

That's great for low frequency ranges, and not good above that.

[@einarbk885]

thoes open baffles are really dumb, im amazed that multiple designers think they can just toss some drivers on a baffle and call it hifi

[@matytinman]

Transcription -> DeepSeek with DeepThink (R1) activated Here’s a structured and detailed summary of the video "Distortion MasterClass: The Truth About How Distortion Sounds": Executive Summary The video explores the types of distortion in audio systems, their causes, effects, and measurement methods. It emphasizes how distortion impacts sound quality and why traditional metrics (like THD) often fail to reflect real-world listening experiences. Key Sections 1. Introduction to Distortion Definition: Any unwanted alteration of the original signal. Main Types: Harmonic Distortion (THD): Generation of harmonics not present in the original signal. Phase/Time Distortion: Desynchronization between frequencies, disrupting temporal coherence. Surface Reflections/Diffraction: Distortions caused by speaker design or room acoustics. Stored Energy/Cabinet Resonances: Uncontrolled vibrations in mechanical components. 2. Measurement Challenges Technical Difficulties: Harmonic distortion in speakers is typically 45-50 dB below the main signal, making detection challenging in noisy environments. Systems like Klippel and anechoic chambers help but require ideal conditions. Common Mistakes: Measuring with microphones too close to the speaker masks real-world distortion. Low-stress testing (insufficient power) fails to reveal true speaker behavior. 3. Perception vs. Specifications Historical THD: Brands marketed ultra-low distortion (e.g., 0.1%), but this doesn’t guarantee good sound. Tube Amplifiers: With 1-2% THD, they are preferred for their "warm" harmonic texture over "sterile" solid-state gear. Clipping: Solid-state amps clip abruptly, while tube amps compress gradually ("soft clipping"). 4. Phase/Time Distortion Practical Examples: Klipsch RP8000F and RP6000F: Misaligned drivers cause phase shifts (up to 80°), leading to cancellations and response gaps. KLH Model 5 and Wharfedale Linton: Vintage designs with baffle reflections that degrade clarity. Audible Effects: "Disintegrated" sound (e.g., acoustic guitar with unsynchronized highs/lows). Loss of stereo imaging and depth. 5. Reflections and Diffraction Causes: Sharp edges on drivers or cabinets. Poorly optimized baffles (e.g., vintage JBL speakers with non-recessed drivers). Consequences: Reflections create peaks/dips in frequency response (e.g., HPM 100’s chaotic spectral decay). Delayed sound arrivals ("smear") affect temporal precision. 6. Voicing vs. Distortion Voicing: Intentional frequency response adjustments (e.g., bass emphasis in ATC speakers). Distortion: Unintended errors (e.g., diffraction in Wilson Watt Puppy 8 due to foam baffle). Key Insight: Fixing distortion ≠ altering voicing; the goal is fidelity to the original design. Key Takeaways Distortion is Multidimensional: Types like harmonic, phase, and time distortion impact sound differently and are often more critical than THD. Physical Design Matters: Cabinet construction, driver alignment, and reflection management are as crucial as electronic components. Measurements ≠ Listening: Traditional metrics (e.g., THD

[@ostapnakoneczny834]

Hope OCD HIFI GUY watches this - he might learn something. Unless his ego gets in the way.

[@alexw890]

He’s an audio dealer. What Danny does hurts his bottom line.

[@edwinsim7206]

Excellent and very educational Danny, thanks. Would it be possible to include short sound clips of the extreme of each distortion so viewers can listen to the worst case scenario of what each distortion sounds like? Also, could you cover jitter in terms of digital reproduction. How bad does high jitter sound. Sometimes certain criteria are promoted but resulting in less than audible improvements. Thanks!

[@dannyrichie9743]

Sound clips won't capture the effect of many types of distortion because the effect is in imaging, and layering. That is lost in the recording of the clip. This is particularly true for time domain distortions.

[@hugogaldames4156]

Thank you professor. Audio 101 class. What do think of using a equalizer? 🧐

[@tractioncontroloff9796]

Danny is a very interesting guy! Motorcycles, hifi, and health and fitness!

[@alanm.thornton4055]

"I've got three more types of distortions...." FALSE: THERE'S 4! Don't forget SOCIAL DISTORTION!!!! :D I am pumped for these videos!!! Great work Danny!!!

[@Rowuk2024]

The first distortion is the distortion of geometry. Things in the recording are never where they would be in real life. Some engineers even promote this distortion and many audiophiles think that it is "more real" and call it imaging or layering! Go to a live concert and sit in your favorite seat. Close your eyes and concentrate on "imaging/layering". You have NEVER heard this at home but it is possible to achieve.

[@cobar5342]

Thank you for a beaut explanation

[@bryandepaepe5984]

Harmonics is like trying to measure the sound difference between a Gibson guitar and a Fender guitar.

[@052RC]

That's timbre, and we have no way to measure it.

[@TheMirolab]

@@052RCof course you can measure timbre. But it’s often a dynamic thing. The timbre of an instrument is not only unique, but changes as you play it differently. There is a very definite and measurable harmonic series that differentiates a trumpet from a trombone.

[@hafgrim.]

It would be great is you could create sound clips to demonstrate it.

[@Corndog642]

A recording is not the same as being there.

[@adambrown8867]

2nd harmonics/even order harmonics sound good. 3rd harmonics/odd order harmonics do not sound as good, or good at all.

[@naturalverities]

Danny, maybe you can address a question to which I have never yet found a definitive answer: Do the rather sharp pressure gradients across the surrounds at the edges of oscillating driver diaphragms (not speaking of the raised edges of gaskets or frames) cause diffraction? My instinct says yes. If so, it would seem that a single large driver would be advantageous in that regard compared to a multiplicity of smaller drivers that sum to the same surface area - e.g. some Tektons and skinny columns with many tiny woofers. Likewise, a large woofer, having a higher area/circumference ratio AND lower excursion for a given SPL, would outperform a smaller diameter high excursion woofer at the same frequency and SPL. Also might explain an advantage of compression drivers, as the diaphragms do not radiate waves but rather pressurize, thus perhaps preventing diffraction at diaphragm edges. Makes me go "hmmm..."

[@RobertCookcx]

My battleground is mostly car audio. We struggle with massive reflection and diffractuin issues. Equalizing for a flat response means yku are targung reflectuons which introduces more phasing errors...and down the whole u go. The best sounding systems have the least equalization and focus more on druver placement.

[@glenncurry3041]

I would disagree about harmonic distortions being egregious with one caveat. Clipping in solid state amps can cause extr4eme levels of high frequencies that are the main cause of tweeter failure.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Oh yeah, that type of distortion is really bad when anything is pushed too far.

[@sandwaves5642]

You've really complicated the issue. Distortion in loudspeakers ( not considering the external factors, as room/space...) is, simply, their inability to, precisely, repeat the incoming signal. THEN, you can start analyzing the reasons : The elements ( drivers ). The enclosure. The construction. The crossovers.....

[@ywsx6489]

44:35 yeah voiced by people who have damaged hearing.

[@esimin]

So many nasty distortions! Life is scary 🤓

[@t44e6]

1st

[@zzt231gr]

Pretty sure you voted for Kamala...

[@frankvanhelvert6231]

@@zzt231gr she is distorted as well!!

[@0robbi0]

You can measure the effects of the magic just not the magic itself. lol