Tesla Model S Main Battery Repair | Gruber Motors

[@Andy-im3kj]

Right To Repair is a movement everyone should get behind so that we as consumers and also private business repair shops of all kinds can have the ability to repair these products without being forced to only go through the original manufacturer for repairs. Bring back the old days when we all had access to parts, schematics, manuals, etc. To do the work ourselves.

[@nick0780]

​@sparkie996 We now have access to the "tool box" and service screen, so that's great. We just need access to order all parts.

[@George-ph5pz]

Anyone who claims to care about the environment should be actively supporting right to repair.

[@electric-rideshare]

Musk added apink slime to the new batteries so you cant replace (right t repair) modules yourself. It's why I wont ever buy a Tesla . Replacement Modules for my ID 4 are $500-$800 cheap and I can have my loclal mechanic swap them out for me

[@wathaet1386]

Is this purely a US issue or do we have the same problems here in the EU? Unsure what the EV repair situation is, although I briefly looked around locally and did not find any car battery refurb shops here in Stockholm.

[@thedolphin5428]

CRAZY DESIGN. 1 bad $3 cell disables a whole car, a whole battery pack, for such a massive dismantling, diagnostics, then "we just snip it out of circuit". CRAZY DESIGN.

[@crazeguy26]

the F150 with the Ecoboost it easier to remove the engine or more commonly remove the cab to do engine work.

[@robertsmith6408]

Agree, we should have software in the car where it would show the bad cell. It should be easy to drop the battery with a few bolts, open it up and replace the battery. Wonder if you get a warranty with Gruber motors after they replace it!

[@downix]

​@@robertsmith6408 A $20 bluetooth OBD2 reader can give you that information. But yes, cars should include that capability.

[@chrishewlet5471]

I love how you explain things. Very clear and informative.

[@marcroy8023]

I was going to post the exact same thing, this guy should a teacher!

[@chrishewlet5471]

@@marcroy8023 Great minds...

[@callmeishmael7452]

So true. Not an actor, no dramatization, just a guy who knows exactly what he is talking about and edited down to the density of a Hemingway short story.

[@roadscholar05]

The problems is, there are not many shops who can repair these batteries. They are increasing, but they are still few and far between. If you are in some place like Montana, you may have to be towed a thousand miles! And, somewhere between 150k and 200k miles, you are gong to have to get the battery pack fixed.

[@DannyWalker247]

@@roadscholar05 If somebody in Montana buys a Tesla they are asking for trouble.

[@ADDMEONPSN]

That electric jack you have to remove/move the Battery pack is way better than what they give us at Tesla to remove/move them. What we use essentially a padded table with 4 coaster wheels we have to push around and its at a Set height lol.

[@mohannadsadeddin8201]

I work and fix tesla batteries in my country for 2 years now. The battery is super sensitive and you must take care of every step you make. One of the most hard things are sealing the battery pack so it will return sealed as it was, the problem is that it will not be water resistant as it was before, which means you cant drive it in winter again. For now the best sealing way is using rubberized silicone and a nylon cover. This prevents water from getting in by approximately 70%.

[@iroquoisfunky]

I like tô learn more about batterys on Electric cars

[@iroquoisfunky]

Where can I find online courses

[@jrmorrissey207]

There are 3M sealants that are 100% waterproof used on boats and in salt water (3M 5200). So if you are getting water into your batter casing you're doing it wrong. Either you're not using the correct sealant, or you're not applying it correctly.

[@mohannadsadeddin8201]

@@jrmorrissey207 Honestly this is the first time I've heard of this sealant, I did some research about it and it seems like it is the best sealant on the market. I am ordering couple of them soon. Thanks for the advice though.

[@SuperMan-xy8ui]

You must use 100% polyurethane-based caulk only lasts 25% as long as pure silicone does?

[@BHARGAV_GAJJAR]

So one cell here and there doesn't affect overall battery life that's truly a stellar example of redundancy

[@theohlinsguy4649]

Engineered like an old fashion Christmas tree light string.

[@JohnSmith-tx3ys]

Perfect analogy.

[@robdude1969]

Amazing that one bad $2 battery cell can be the demise of a $130,000 supercar. Cheers to you for your sleuthing skills and sharing the inner workings and solution with us. As we transition more into a BEV society, these repairs will happen more often. I imagine a more serviceable product will be mandated. Thanks!!

[@siliconalleyelectronics187]

Just like a $0.01 resistor being the demise of a $1200 phone, $1600 video card, or $3000 laptop. Electronics are just expensive things made of thousands of very very cheap things.

[@SPX3455]

Poor design. Could have arranged the batteries to bypass the faulty battery.

[@Lonesygamer]

@@SPX3455 that would be even more expensive tho right

[@Dave-in-France]

This is an excellent video which goes to show that whilst your Tesla battery MAY get a problem, it's not usually totally dead and buried.

[@brentftaylor]

Great explanation, and no political ads!

[@petegruber2353]

LOL

[@heartrem2]

You guys are great, as a tesla model 3 owner i am so glad to see you out there doing this work and offering options for people i wish you all the best!

[@DaveVelde]

Awesome, nice to know that there are options for older Tesla vehicles besides purchasing a new battery pack.

[@tommyb6611]

Of course there are. Not just for tesla. Imagine this car is an overgrown cordless impact driver. If only car manufacturers would make the battery pack maintenance and inspection easy and accesible, not requiring extensive and expensive equipment to access. The right to repair, not to be abused by dealers that will push you onto new battery packs because the old one is old and dead, when in fact a single cell replacement makes it great again, even after maaaaaany years of use. But that is the scsm of the official dealership, a monopoly to prevent customers from fair repair.

[@mondotv4216]

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 It’s nothing like an engine rebuild? You disconnect the HV, drop the battery out and remove the lid and a couple of hose fittings. You can check the battery voltage with a $20 multimeter. Yes it’s a sealed lid and removing and resealing it isn’t easy and that’s the part where specialist tools come in but that’s because it’s a completely sealed system - on purpose. That’s hardly engine rebuild territory. To put it into perspective, Neo (Chinese EV maker) just completed it’s 2 millionth battery swap. It takes about the same amount of time as filling your car with gas. Even Tesla’s battery is pretty modular.

[@adambiv100]

@@christinalaw3375 how is that unlike any car maker with non EV cars?

[@jorgegatica8065]

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 you have no idea, you pull out a 10 year old battery pack to replace dead cell, put it back together and in a few weeks weeks or months another cell dies and need to do it all over again? That’s why Tesla want to replace the whole battery pack, and when you rebuild an ice engine it’s good for another 10-20 years

[@Uncommonsensetoo]

That's crucial. I for one would never consider buying a Tesla if I am looking at a $22000 battery pack replacement after 8 years or so.

[@Wadley225]

4:43 - to clarify, 4.2 volts is a normal 100% charge voltage for lithium ion batteries, and the 3.6 volts he speaks of is the NOMINAL or average voltage, not at 100% charge. Same battery different charge levels.

[@MortimerSnerve]

Could be different battery chemistries. LiFePO4 charges to 3.65 max, 3.2 nominal.

[@gelisob]

@@MortimerSnerve no model S uses lifepo batteries. Only standard range in china model 3 does atm. Also I think those in teslas are the higher capacity panasonic ones that are 4.3v for 100%, but never charged to that for better life cycles.

[@anthonyreynolds2365]

@@gelisob Well in reality, any Nickel based Lithium Ion cell can be charged to 4.3V. It's just always a compromise as each voltage increase of 100mV beyond 3.9V decrease cycle life by a factor of 2.

[@sirglennn4807]

Probably different batteries

[@johnretama3402]

What an incredibly informative video.. made it understandable for folks like myself that have 0 clue what the future looks like.

[@toddshaw6658]

You are the future of mechanics

[@grubermotorcompany]

Thank you - kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4O2Z5Kcpd55n8k

[@matthewjackson9615]

Just what I was looking for on my scavenger hunt today. What great Fortune.

[@drewjevans]

Thank you for sharing this! My 2014 P85D has two years of battery warranty left and given the track record with drive unit replacements (3 so far) it’s comforting to know that there will be a non-Tesla option when the time comes for work on the main battery pack. I asked the Tempe service center last time I was there what the cost to replace the pack would be (since they do not repair, only replace) and they said “about $25K”. And that includes the credit for trading in the old pack! Very glad to have you guys as a local alternative to the Tesla service center - you’ve already saved me a ton of money on air suspension and other maintenance items. I think you’re going to get VERY busy as the 2012, 2013, 2014 cars begin to come off their powertrain warranties!

[@petegruber2353]

We plan on expanding to meet the needs of our customers. Thank you for your business. Pete

[@msimmons]

@@petegruber2353 Would be curious what options are for east coast cars-- since cross-country shipping is $$. Maybe partner with Electrified Garage? They need more locations too though. No viable options in my area that I'm aware of.

[@youtubeaccount9808]

@@petegruber2353 Please open a location on the East Coast around DC or NY :)

[@deava9336]

It's a steal consider fe battery price today at about 100$ per kw

[@celeron55]

You can sell a pack with one failed module for like $8000 (they are bought for DIY powerwall and gasoline to electric conversion purposes). What's the cost for Tesla to install a new pack into a car that has had its pack removed and sold already? It could be more cost effective, ending up with a new pack and all.

[@puffnstuff12]

Thank you for sharing. I watched the electrified garage fix a battery pack and their system identified the bad sheets and bad cells within those sheets while the battery was still in the car so they knew where to go before they dropped the battery pack.

[@henvan8737]

Great service, the model S is alive again.

[@ALCAPONE5655]

Great video; you should be a university professor. You explain things clearly using simple and plain language that anyone can understand. 👍👍👍

[@murali.sethuraman]

Elegant, simple but very crisp explanation of the problem and solution.

[@Rj-nh1df]

Love how he explains this fix video. Talk about someone who isn't full of himself but really wants you to grasp the way Tesla's perform and function. Excellent video!!! PS) I had no idea that those (VapeCigBatteries) 18650's were in parallel. That was all that's in a dang Tesla. I know that's the same with Renogy Solar Batteries too!!!

[@Rj-nh1df]

I need to know where we can find those replacement sheets (a single battery sheet)?

[@mawsaleh]

Besides tech, you're an excellent teacher :)

[@bobmac9070]

What a great simple explanation of how it works and how you repair them. Awesome!

[@bobjohnson6371]

Ha, reminds me of going through the old Christmas tree lights trying to find the bad bulb. Interesting video.

[@SPX3455]

Awesome work, guys. I wish we had this service in Bulgaria.

[@nickhsu2812]

Very easy to understand even I am not a native speaker. Amazing!!

[@TranTek]

i absolutely love this company reviving Tesla to improve them.

[@diggleboy]

You are so far ahead of the curve! Glad I found your channel today. I look forward to watching more of your content to learn all about Tesla EVs from the inside out.

[@therealcdnuser]

Glad to see Mike Ehrmantraut has found honest work in renewables.

[@ChaseThrifts]

Yes, someone that can explain clearly and precise on battery cell packs!

[@Happy-wm]

This guy speaks way better than my university professors!

[@thebrain7065]

I didn't know John Locke from "Lost" is repairing Tesla battery packs....pretty cool.

[@frothywalrus]

I was going to go Paul Shaffer, but I see what you are saying

[@Randomchickensmoo]

Huh, this channel is actually kinda cool! Found it through some random internet blog/news website and for once it actually led me to something cool!

[@petegruber7564]

Much more content is coming.

[@MarkRodenburg]

The sun is shining in the shop.

[@jonesfredrick94]

And in some peoples finance after receiving this type of help

[@patbaptiste9510]

I've worked on electric buses which uses software that looks at each cell within a battery pack - voltage and temperature - therefore can tell exactly which cell or cells are defective. I'm not a software engineer so I have absolutely no idea what's involved there. All I know is, whenever there was a problem, I could plug in my laptop into a specific network port to look at each battery pack, then zero in on all or individual cell in the defective pack. That made my job really easy.

[@djordjeblaga7815]

The special process to determine the bad cell is most likely a thermal camera. When you charge the pack and watch it's temperature, the resistive cells will get hot and show quite clearly on a thermal image. Snipping them out is fine, as long as its not too many per pack. Effectively removing it will decrease the whole packs capacity, which will lead to balancing issues if a lot of cells are removed in this way. So if this is done repeatedly to a pack over a few years there will eventually come a point where you need to actually open it up and replace the faulty cells with new ones. As far as I can see the cooling solution they've gone for is flat tube sandwiched with thermal pads in between the cells. That way the cells are not directly touched by the coolant but can still dissapate their heat. So a replacement of cells should be possible, although it will take significantly longer than just cutting the fuse. So its best to only do this if the pack has lots (Say more than 10%) of bad cells.

[@fredhamilton1701]

Thermal camera might catch it, or you could probably use a sensitive DMM to measure the voltage drop across the fusible link to each battery. At equilibrium the bad cell will have approximately 74 times the voltage drop seen on the good cells.

[@mitchellcrane9809]

@@fredhamilton1701that would be fine if the cells where in series but there in groups that are parallel. Put it on a power supply and wait for the hot spot, simplistic/fast. The real problem, it is all a waste of peoples money to do this. If a pack could be r&r in a hour that would be fine. The labor time to do this makes this a loser. You could fix it and two months later be back in it. The cells are going bad across the board because of the number of charge/discharge cycles. Great money maker for the shop, suckers bet for the customer.

[@NP-co7kj]

@@mitchellcrane9809 The cell became resistive and perhaps that can be caused from the cycling, but it can also be a defective cell and not an indication that many more are about to fail. I've built 2 EVs with LiFePO4 cells whereas the most recent one has 38 cell modules with 52 cells per module. After just one year of use, I had one bad cell out of 1976 that went resistive. I designed my own BMS and was able to compensate by adjusting balancing parameters for that module but eventually, I added a one-off cell balancer to keep that cell topped off. That's worked for 6 years so far but I really should pull the pack and replace that cell.

[@johnmcdyer7297]

Only a sucker would buy an electric car

[@shwndh]

@@NP-co7kj What do you mean by "topped off"? You bypass that cell? Also, if you replace that bad cell, will it throw off the balance because of age/capacity differences? I'm trying to learn about battery management.

[@avpcoating2279]

I am so happy your around the corner with my latest acquisition. 😁

[@petegruber2353]

Welcome to the world of sustainable energy and Tesla Paul. Pete

[@tonychristensen6714]

yeah welcome to the wonderful world of expensive repairs and high depreciation!

[@kEVsterTech]

Nice work keeping the battery cover flat for reuse.

[@blackfistnyc718]

Your videos and company is needed ..thank you much.. from watch your videos.. I actually feel better about owning mine

[@RayonWhittaker]

Gruver I know you were a university professor, great presentation and explanation sir.

[@ai4px]

Never replaced the bad cell? Just isolated it?

[@vladbleoanca9201]

1 cell out of 7000 is a 1/7000 decline in range. The individual cells are very well stuck in place and if you remove them you have to redo the entire shell which keeps them together series-paralel. So its just better to cut out the dead cell.

[@moestrei]

There are 73 in parallel and 6 of those parallel banks in series in each module. Snipping one out means a capacity loss of 1.4% in that bank.

[@jpinto3912]

@@vladbleoanca9201 The capacity imbalance caused on that parallel is of 1/74 (there are 74 cells in parallel, then series of 16X6 of those parallels), which is -1.3%. The BMS will handle that, provided you get to 80% SOC and stay there or above for large extended periods. The pack's practical range is -1.3% down, as that parallel will trigger Under-Voltage protection sooner than all other 95 parallels. I assure you I'd live with those numbers, on a 10k$ tesla + Gruber's bill.

[@vfrexup]

Very clear and informative tutorial - thanks !

[@fansurisheikhferuq6753]

Solid work from the people at Gruber Motors!

[@nextautomotive7274]

This is awesome! Would love to see the replacement happen too - as well as the "power up" and drive.

[@petegruber2353]

We are working on the sequel. It supercharged this morning.

[@petegruber2353]

Here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXmVk4mNl9h-jbM

[@ochiet77]

@@petegruber2353 This video and the one linked dont show you repairing a damn thing. take the fucking cell apart and do the actual repair.

[@edgarwright9486]

Great and very interesting talk, I just got my brain oppened up to how the battery system workson Tesla.

[@scheffman]

Thank you for providing this service. I will be shipping my 90d to you soon.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

I'm glad the newer designs they are using today in the Model 3/Y and new Model S don't have this issue. These old Model S's are when Tesla was still struggling as a company, they've come a long way. But it's good there is an independent repair option.

[@zaneenaz4962]

Curious how the newer designs overcome this ? Is this indeed true ? Also curious how long it takes to find the module and then the particular brick and finally the "rogue" cell ?

[@AZBEEMR]

I always wondered what Gruber electric Co. did and it never occurred to me that you always had a Tesla or three in the driveway! Stumbled across this excellent video by a feed in Google. I immediately subscribed. The photo is of me and Betty, your neighbors.

[@andreyoungcompton]

The best and most informative Tesla Battery 🔋 Pack video I’ve seen

[@grubermotorcompany]

Andre Young We appreciate it! Part 2 of this series will be released shortly.

[@kylereese4822]

@@grubermotorcompany On a salvage car(missing battery) there`s no reason someone cant build a battery pack using other battery formats with the right software/bms to talk to the OEM Tesla software, same goes for after market chargers, motors from Volvo/VW/Porsche etc would be a perfect engineering project in collage/uni etc....nothing wrong with learning :):)

[@rayheatley9910]

We have the 2018 Tesla MS 100D and it has been reliable until yesterday. I was driving from San Francisco to San Diego. I stopped near Bakersfield to charge the car to about 270 miles. We started down freeway 5 and I got a warning that I needed to charge the car and to pull over to the side of the road. I was lucky we were not hit by other traffic as it was about ten am. We had to wait for about two hours for Geico to send us a tow truck. Tesla in Bakersfield told us that the main battery needed to be replaced. Worse case it may take seven weeks to get it done. The battery is still under warranty so that helps. The car has about 83000 miles on it. They provided a model 3 to continue our trip home. I had to learn how to drive this M3 as it does not operate like the MS does. I have to say it rides ok, but I like my MS. Tesla Workers at the Bakersfield location are very nice. Our Model S did not give us any indication in the days leading up to this battery failure. Has anyone else had something like this happen to them? Are the batteries installed in the newer cars better? Thank you for the video.

[@SilentKnight43]

I'm gobsmacked to learn the Tesla batteries are made up of thousands of the exact same battery used to power my vape! Who'd have thunk? Fascinatin' video.

[@mitchellcrane9809]

The problem I see with fixing/cutting out single cells is the possibility of other cells failing in the near future. This might be fine when a battery pack is young as a failed cell is most likely a actual defect. If the pack has age (or more importantly charge cycles) then it could become expensive tail chasing proposition. Fix the pack today maybe it last a year or two years, perhaps only 4 months and you are back to pulling the pack again - time/expense.

[@s.h7124]

The sunglasses 😎 make you look more electrify!

[@ziasong]

As a former electrical service & design engineer, I can tell the battery monitoring and services are most complex tasks in substation services.

[@aussietaipan8700]

I wish we has a company like yours here in Australia. Very clear and concise information and thanks for sharing. And subscribed

[@grubermotorcompany]

Thank you! We work hard on these videos and feedback like this is very uplifting. Hope your weekend is a relaxing one!

[@aristideau5072]

@@grubermotorcompany if the only other option is a $US25,000 ($AU33,000) repair it would be economically feasible to fly you out to Australia to do the repair.

[@noelelnolo9642]

If only tesla would allow repairs the ev cars would be selling like in china. Unfortunately, any little issue and the car is scrapped. U r a genius and thank u for sharing

[@hpartsch]

This is awesome. Is there significant risk of 1 or 2 more cells going bad in the 1-3 years and requiring then another ~5k x 1-2?

[@petegruber2353]

The cells are surprisingly stable. Out of dozens of Roadster battery repair and recovery customers, which are 4-5 years older, we have had only one battery pack come back after a year of use with another cell failure. His car was also bricked, which stresses the cells much more than normal use.

[@dimmacommunication]

@@petegruber2353 bricked ? software failure ?

[@lapin46]

@@dimmacommunication no, it usually means the battery was left to discharge itself dropping below 2.0V of cell voltage. Most common cause is to leave the car in storage without a charger attached. Once completely discharged, cells get damaged and you cannot "just" recharge the car.

[@aifresnofresno]

Just curious.... What was the cost of this specific repair?

[@grubermotorcompany]

Audio Innovations Pricing will vary, but approximately 5k total. Less for local or Southwest region due to transport costs.

[@invented92]

@@grubermotorcompany Does the battery return to a normal degradation (usually 4-5% degraded after 50k miles), after the battery is snipped out?

[@petegruber7564]

It was under $5K

[@petegruber2353]

All said and done - around $5K

[@aifresnofresno]

Thank you, gentlemen.

[@rioborzeli147]

Well spoken , learned lots. Thanks

[@GameOver556]

Not sure if i understood correctly. Did he just disconnect faulty cell, or did he replace it?

[@georgepyrpiris7857]

Yes, I have the same question. It's like the punch line is missing. I can't imagine not replacing because the voltage in parallel would be off with regards to the other units

[@lavachemist]

@@georgepyrpiris7857 cells in parallel do not increase voltage, they increase capacity. That block of cells will just have like 2,000 or so mah less capacity than the other blocks of cells.

[@UllrRoo]

He replied to another comment asking about the quality of the replacement cell and said they are not, just snipped out of the circuit. He also mentioned performance is barely discernable as it's 1 cell in 7000

[@VijayBhalla]

Nicely presented with details and no bullshit. I like such informational videos. Don’t own Tesla yet but following closely for future ownership. Thanks

[@ukeshmixnortheastindiainte6510]

Beautifull cars.....👍👍👍👌👌👌👌

[@tg9754]

Great video. I've been following Tesla for a few years. I love their cars and would have one if I could afford it. See you next time.

[@mariopic2625]

this is a quick fix u need to replace the cell not cut it out of circut this will cause other cells in parallel to take more current draw causing them to heat up more under heavy load this will work if u cut cell out but it will cause more to fail in future

[@beyerch]

This "repair" actually makes me angry the more I think about it. If they are just 'cutting out' a cell, this should be far less than $5K. There's no materials here and the labor is relatively minimal. For $5K, you'd think they were at least replacing the 'bad module' with a good one. (you can get tested modules for ~800-1000) [~$10-15K can get you a replacement battery pack]

[@disgruntledgoat]

@@beyerch Agreed. I was getting moderately excited to see how they would extract and replace the cell or rebuild the brick, but nope - snip the fusable link and unbalance the module and leave it to the BMS to sweat over it. FFS.

[@MarcoGaxiola]

@@beyerch It is not $5K. for just cutting the wire on the bad cell, for that it's just $1. Then $4,999 for knowing exactly which wire to cut, how to reprogram the BMS and how to handle high voltage properly and secure. Otherwise, you can do it yourself.

[@beyerch]

@@MarcoGaxiola I was, unfortunately, waiting for someone to make that comment.... I don't need to pay anyone $4.9K to cut out a cell which just weakens (albeit slightly) the battery module when I can pay ~$1K for a good module and just swap it. Honestly, wouldn't it be easier to locate the bad module and just swap it anyway? Of course, there is no material cost if you just snip out the cell and call it good so this feels like a cash grab. :shrug:

[@sgttaz91]

@@beyerch What does a module cost? Where do you buy it from - Telsa? And how much to install?

[@Myksgarage]

Very well done! You guys are my company when my battery dies

[@PaulOfPeace54]

Interesting how you identify a failed cell. You say you snip it and take it out of the circuit. I assume you then replace it with a new cell? Is there a way to test the modules to see if there are any other cells that might be close to failing?

[@revy_moto]

Great video, explained very well. You are a great teacher in that regard.

[@RussLinzmeier]

Finding a bad cell in a module is easy , you charge it up near 100 % and look at it with an infrared camera that plugs into an iphone . Bad cells get called heaters because they get hot and the infrared camera finds them right away .

[@petegruber7564]

We find too much "bloom" using just infrared imaging, and have tried a number of different camera types.

[@RussLinzmeier]

@@petegruber7564 Thanks for replying , I find just touching individual cells with finger tips finds the hot ones , the heat is most noticeable on the positive terminal of the cell because of the cells built in the pressure relief circuit breaker switch that's under the little dome on the positive end of an 18650 cell has tiny contacts that restrict current and cause heat build up there .

[@d.p.9567]

Oh it’s like those annoying Christmas lights that if one goes out they all go out. So smart and green. 😂

[@wopwops0482]

Had the defective cell not gone bad enough to blow its individual fuse? If it had blown the fuse, would the module and pack have continued to function?

[@petegruber7564]

A parasitic cell became gradually resistive, draining the other charged cells in a parallel connected brick, but not enough to blow the fusible link wire which is good for around 9 amps. If it had blown the fusible link, we would have not been necessary.

[@zaneenaz4962]

​@@petegruber7564 .....there you have an opportunity for a design change.

[@METALGRAMMYS]

His future is so bright.

[@Visionery1]

Excellent video! It makes more sense to 'snip out' the defective cell - which has a minimal effect on overall capacity - than to replace the entire module. 5:00, don't you mean in series, one defective cell in parallel will have a negligible affect on the overall resistance?

[@NeutronX101]

Great explanation. You should also teach. Well I guess this is teaching also probably much better than University.

[@sardororipov1302]

Thank you for sharing!Im curious what would be the billed hours for the repair?

[@len333p]

Brilliant, but shocking how one small battery renders a very expensive car almost worthless. With all our technology you would think it possible to locate the specific failed cell (ODB scan) and replace it without having to remove a 1200lb lump. Great video!

[@scottmitchell2012]

As always, great work by Pete Gruber and the Gruber Motors Team. Please open a shop on the East Coast.

[@brucestein988]

Like in Maryland!

[@petegruber2353]

Thank you. Scaling what we do is in the plans.

[@moestrei]

Dont forget the East coast of Australia

[@ownedbymeeee]

Cool video but somewhat misleading to most people to be honest. Would like to add my two cents as a batterypack engineer here... I totally understand this is the most cost effective way to get the pack running again, however! A bad cell only causes the battery to stop functioning once this cells in parallel block has discharged to under the bms’s set voltage limit. From which point the bms registers a missing series and then shuts down the entire pack. A cell that has internally shorted to the length where its self discharge is so large that it manages to discharge all of the energy of remaining in parallel cells means that by the time the pack stops working and then is opened by you the remaining 73 cells in the parallel config have oversischarged and potentially gone way too low. Discharge does not stop once the pack is deactivated. So you would have to have charged the block of those from too low up to the point above undervoltage limit of bms. Doing this Causes increased internal resistance of those cells, A because they were too low and built up resistance and B because the charge procedure is then bad for it. Built up lithium plating inside is the cause, making these cells run hotter and not hold their voltage under load like the others. Then you add that you now have 1 cell less in the block. So the whole parallel block discharges faster and charges faster then the rest of the pack.(becuase less capacity) ALL THE TIME! Making the bms work over time trying to balance it upon every charge operation. Less cells in the block mean less cells to spread the load out and therefore lower voltages under load and more stress on the pack and also the bms (the bms monitors and balances on discharge under about 3.3V per cell to) so this whole in series block will die earlier then the rest. Until then looses capacity quicker so at one stage u have bad range as it will always be discharge to 0% faster and when its at 0% the whole pack shuts down. Might be after the service life of the car or very quickely. It works yes but its not ideal.

[@Wadley225]

So that entire battery module should be replaced, not just take the one bad cell out of circuit.

[@ownedbymeeee]

@@Wadley225 yes exactly, then again the issue is that the new module would be of a different health again. Used under different conditions that you are not aware of, leading to a different internal resistance of the cells and also a different overall capacity. Causing similar issues again. Best way would be to test all other 15 modules, for capacity, and internal resistance, and then find an appropriate module that equals the results so it matched. considering the work load of that and higher cost I get why just removing the one cell is whats done. When tesla refurbisches the packs, this is most likely what they are doing. as they have to give warranty on the pack they wouldnt to it any other way. (im saying most likely, I dont have proof as I dont know how they refurbish packs but that is practically the only way that keeps the pack reliable and functioning)

[@ownedbymeeee]

@Jan Lenz yes if the main controller does not need a special code / handshake with the slave modules. Dont know if tesla has that to stop unauthorized people repairing the packs...

[@paulkirchhof9546]

Jan Lenz , the problem is the exact cell for this Modul knows only Tesla. if you have a different cell in the Modul the balancing of all cells is the problem for the BMS. if you cut the bad cell out of the Modul you lost only a few precent of capacity. If you have a second same battery you can change the cell.

[@zaneenaz4962]

@@ownedbymeeee very astute observations ! Am amazed how much the internal resistance changes as the cells dis/charge. suspecting that the bms is programmed for such tight tolerances that the differences in the modules are quickly picked up on and preventative measures quickly escalate to bricking the pack. That's probably how they quickly id the offending module during the teardown.

[@anthonymonaco5889]

So what did Gruber Motors charge for that repair?

[@azspotfree]

You guys are giving away the farm. I appreciate it though. Very informative.

[@jamesjennings3048]

Great info will surely need one of these days.

[@birdbone3dprinted194]

Was the bad cell replaced? Or was it simply removed, with no replacement.

[@petegruber7564]

Removed by snipping it out. Cell vasectomy.

[@sped6954]

That's kinda weird, since these cells retail for only around $10 each. Kind of a disservice not throwing a new battery in there while it's already cometely dismantled.

[@Onelegleg]

@@sped6954 tearing it apart to get to the one cell is not worth the cost of just removing it by snipping it.

[@petegruber7564]

@@sped6954 We wish it was as easy as replacing cells in a flashlight. To remove LI-ion cells in thermal potting compound and cooling jacket impregnated battery stacks (bricks) is destructive. Snipping it out is the most sensible way to do this.

[@sped6954]

@@petegruber7564 Ok. Thanks for the info about them being all kinds of hermetically sealed in six ways to Sunday. I thought that by the time you got to the point of snipping the connections, they were already at the point where they could be lifted out and a new one dropped in in its place. My mistake! 😁

[@8637paul]

Really great to see what you do, giving a new lease of life to battery packs.

[@proxlamuz4591]

Excellent video. Good speech rate and very informative.

[@blockthis08]

Favorited for future repair.

[@darod850]

love the channel, so happy youre giving these great cars new life.

[@ronaldrussell5481]

Very interesting and informative, thank you. It's exciting to watch a company such as yours enter into what I would call "uncharted waters", apparently not to you, so good work and keep it up!

[@scottybabb6297]

When you “snip out” the bad battery, do you replace it?

[@sped6954]

I had heard something to the effect a long time ago that these cars were powered by a shitload of 18650 batteries, but I never followed up on it. Nice to know that what I heard several years ago was true and accurate information.

[@trumanhw]

Thank you. I'd love to see HOW you located the bad battery module.

[@thomaskempton456]

Was the defective cell replaced, or just disabled within the module?

[@petegruber7564]

Disabled

[@TheDevonParker]

Can you comment on the quality of the replacement cell, total capacity, chemistry, reliability, construction? Not all lithium batteries are the same and there can be several variances. Tesla OEM is the best on the market, so how will this new cell affect the module?

[@petegruber2353]

Cells that go rogue in a brick like this are not replaced. They are snipped out. Impact is virtually unnoticeable since there are so many cells in a brick. The Tesla MS BMS is very sophisticated, except down to the brick level where a number of cells are connected in parallel. To the BMS, a colony of cells looks like one.

[@georgepyrpiris7857]

@@petegruber2353 that makes sense, thanks for clarifying

[@zaneenaz4962]

Great video. Pete ---curious how long it takes to find the module, then the particular brick and finally the "rogue" cell ? Do you have to reset the BMS? Does your company do software updates ? Thanks.

[@joe2825]

Amazing, I have confidence I could easily do this myself. I'm pretty good with this stuff.

[@hieroglyph321]

Still alive, bro?

[@joe2825]

@@hieroglyph321 yes, but lost my right arm

[@nathanielschroeder1321]

Did you replace the cell?

[@petegruber2353]

No easy/cost effective way to do that. Isolating is the process.

[@petepetess]

I know it makes it work now, but doesnt that reduce the overall capacity with less cells in parallel? Also makes charging and discharging not work as well, since this parallel string has less capacity. Would imagine this would have some error codes.

[@petegruber2353]

@@petepetess The Tesla MS BMS is very sophisticated, except down to the brick level where a number of cells are connected in parallel. To the BMS, a colony of cells looks like one. It cannot see a missing cell.

[@suhaspatil5728]

Very nicely explained

[@Ebaybbq]

Very informative and simple explanation

[@Bugin1967]

Very good information especially how you explain it in very simple terms

[@natheerbecker7460]

You rock Sir, I wish you have a shop here in Houston.

[@martinschuler1490]

Interessant wie so ein Model S- Akku ausgebaut aussieht 🤔!!! 👍👍👍

[@stubanshuberi8793]

After the bad battery if found and isolated, would you replace the old battery and put in a new one or would the disabled cell not effect the overall capacity buy much?