Ep280: I Renounce My Attainments - Delson Armstrong

[@delson999]

I want to thank you, Steve, for offering up your channel as a conduit and space for me to speak openly and frankly about these topics. I had a lot of fun. I’m looking forward to our next conversation :) - Delson

[@GuruViking]

Thank you, Delson! 🙏

[@wiseAss]

Thank you Delson for speaking about these things openly and Frankly. I appreciate what I have learned from TWIM and yourself, but I had some reservations already about some of the things you discussed. Without laying blame or throwing stones, I appreciate hearing your perspective. Also, thank you to Steve for hosting these discussions.

[@sherrilawrence662]

Thanks Delson, this is authentic courage ❤much respect and gratitude 🙏

[@paulpgoddard76]

I love all of this and really appreciate the uber-transparency Delson in the face of adulation and rigid thinking. Spiritual bypassing, to be blunt and in light of modern psychological findings but not to delegitimize realization, is baked into dharma and needs to be unbaked.Truth is not a tradition, it is what is. This will only deepen the Tantric quality of awakening and make it more accessible culturally at the cost of many many sacred cows, and also put pressure on monastic approaches to have more real world rigor and avoid the ivory tower complement of the golden temple. My Zen heritage came through martial arts and I've watched many a Tai Chi master get their butts handed to them by MMA fighters. It's not pretty, but it is grounding. The same things will happen with some eastern mystical metaphysics I believe. The more we can make realization accessible to real world living, householder living, to science, the better; as long as we resist the dumbing down and McYoga effect that has already happened, and have respect for contemplatives who take things further. I've kept aloof but observant of all traditions for decades, waiting for one to resonate fully with me so I could have support on my path, but from the sobriety of seeing things from a distance and with the inner guru already found, none called to me precisely because I found all these exceptions occuring uniquely to each tradition. Therefore I resorted with no choice to a Mixed Peaceful Arts (MPA) style of dharma, as Shinzen says: using what works. Syncretism is risky, but so is dogma.

[@Merkabakorea]

@delson99 can you share any information or recommendations on Sri Vidya initations In India- location/teachers. Thanks!

[@hansenmarc]

There are, strictly speaking, no enlightened people, there is only enlightened activity. -Shunryu Suzuki

[@chefbob67]

In joining with Delson, I would also like to take this opportunity to renounce my attainments! Oh, wait, I don't have any attainments. Okay, we're good.

[@anandaji4075]

It might be an attainment seeing you have no attainments.

[@boohoo746]

@@anandaji4075 but then, if having no attainments is an attainment, then won't renouncing all attainments bring you back into the state of having no attainments? seems like an un-renounce-able attainment has been discovered!

[@anandaji4075]

@@boohoo746 Perhaps I should have said- It is shocking seeing you have no attainments!

[@pablokatorgini]

It's good that he has let go of the idea that he is a noble one. (mn115 It’s impossible for a person accomplished in view to dedicate themselves to another teacher). However, that's a rather "slimy" way (using Delson's words) to say "I was wrong, and I am not an arahant, nor an anagami, nor any other noble person." Perhaps he didn't make public announcements, but when you spend hours giving talks about the mind of an arahant, it's assumed that the person believes themselves "qualified" to talk about it. And of course, such claims were made in private-i believe not just to me. This makes it even "slimier." For example, imagine having a conversation where someone says, "I’m at least at anagami phala," and later you see a "manifesto", "I never made public announcements." As if that cancels everything said in private! It would have been far more proper to say, "I apologize for all the claims I made in private, even though I didn't make them publicly." What kind of conceit must one have for it to be easier to say that the Buddha's teaching is flawed or "just a concept" than to simply admit that, due to overestimation, they believed they had attained something they hadn't even begun to approach? Failing to keep the Eight Precepts or being unable to renounce lay life is not an argument against the Buddha's teachings or that fetters are not really working. For example, MN 81 describes the proper attitude toward food for a truly developed layperson and Delsons example with pizza clearly shows that he's not even on the way there.

[@dhamma2561]

And he pretty straightforwardly made it publicly as well, stating on Guru Viking that he attained the fourth path and fruition. Plus now he didn't even really renounce it, but simply called into question the Blessed One's fetter model of the four noble attainments and placed himself as an equivalent to arahant in his own model. I hope you are doing better, I have heard of your experiences with TWIM.

[@pablokatorgini]

@dhamma2561 thank you. Since quitting TWIM I didn't have such problems.

[@helpfulinfo2630]

It is strange for a person to criticize Buddha's noble teaching and principles and try to make up his own "enlightenment " criteria instead of reflecting on where he can do better when he finds himself not being able to meet that level the Buddha described

[@pablokatorgini]

@helpfulinfo2630 It's so true. Thank you for pointing that out. Especially having cravings for romantic relationships, food, wearing gold, or even cutting hair off - that's such a basic level of renunciation, let alone the higher fetters.

[@MrBalthazar78]

A lot of western teachers seem to want redefine enlightenment after their premature immaculation. Most traditions have very sensible taboos about making claims about your own attainments. We see can see why in real time.

[@akashicturtle1827]

Yeah I was thinking something similar. It seems like there is a tendency to overstate your attainment and then trying to redefine awakening when you realize it doesn’t fit you. Ppl need to be more careful about the claims they make about themself.

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

Just because there are negatives to making claims doesn't mean there are no positives - Daniel has a following for good reason. I have made more progress in 4 years than the previous 10 years thanks to his claims and sharing.

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

That being said I see WAY too many immature people claiming to be arahats.

[@MrBalthazar78]

In Daniel Ingrams case I have a feeling it’s more Adderall than Arhant…

[@akashicturtle1827]

@@MrBalthazar78 Daniel seems like a genuine stream winner to me. Or maybe a once returner. Not an arahant. Probably the same with Delson.

[@PuggiTheGreat]

What’s occurring here I have seen before and I shall put it plainly… …for whatever reason someone thought they were enlightened, turns out they were not enlightened, this upsets them, so they reject/reinterpret the path, sigh… Rinse and repeat. If a person was/is not enlightened because they were led astray by a false teaching/interpretation, in this case TWIM, I would suggest the error is not compounded by another reinterpretation, or, rinse and repeat?!

[@elizabethecarlisle1045]

Seriously?....... Yawn.

[@PuggiTheGreat]

@@elizabethecarlisle1045 Yep, seriously. TWIM harms and deludes people.

[@jplmedley]

You just stated an interpretation. If you were wrong about your interpretation, how could you know?

[@moonmissy]

I practiced Zen for 35 years, after the fire crackers, the insights, after it all, I still laugh, I cry, I feel stressed, anger, love more fully and feel ever more deeply amidst the messiness of life. I truly believe there is the end of it all. It’s called death! Becoming more human and authentic in our journey seemed to be the point of it all, no matter what tradition one follow.

[@polydex108]

@@moonmissy isn't that an annihilation view, that death is the end? I know a lot of stuff can't be put into words, but doesn't Buddhism involve release from endless rounds of samsara?

[@moonmissy]

@@polydex108The end of experience of life. The ride of life and subject to expression of body mind doesn’t end until death. That’s the point of liberation from body mind conditionings in relations to construction of the self. That process doesn’t end unless one remains in nirodha or dies.

[@polydex108]

@@moonmissy apologies. I indirectly see what you are saying without having seen it myself. Having no attainments or anything like that, I wasn't thinking about parinibbāna. That may not be a term in your tradition and I know everything can't be put into words, but that is my understanding of what you are saying.

[@scrungletech]

The release of suffering is a genuine experience that is irreversible and can be attained in this lifetime.

[@josephsonoftheuniverse5541]

If more people kept their feet on the ground and cut away most of up the ass crap the world would be a much healthier place .a good and proper teacher is the stranger you talk with on the street or park bench who shares a simple moment of togetherness togetherness that teacher can be everybody as you teach you learn as you learn you teach . walking in the world that's a true teacher . And at the end of the day the greatest teacher is the child . Once years ago in the park with my young daughter sophia she stood still holding a flower in the air I thought it was strange and asked why ? She said she wanted a butterfly to land on it I smiled at her innocence but she stood and waited and the butterfly came and landed , it was beautiful and I thought so special and questioned where it came from , it couldn't come from me then I realized I too have that inside of me , and it really opened a door for me , to end chasing enlightenment is like chasing a butterfly and I believe enlightened is like growing a beard just let it happen no trim no cut just let it happen .❤

[@turner373]

Daniel Ingram: Last Arhat Standing! I joke. Good for Delson.

[@sherrilawrence662]

🤣 ❤

[@OldWolf1933]

LOL, that is funny.

[@bike4aday]

I haven't watched this yet, but I hope him and Daniel see more eye-to-eye now!

[@issac7787]

both are fake self proclaimed guru anyway

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

​@@issac7787 I've followed Daniel for years. After a certain point it actually seems undeniable, once you have seen all of his interviews etc.

[@DhammaJo]

I’m very new to Buddhism and meditation but I have felt the way Deleon has felt for some time now. Awakening is a unique experience for each individual.

[@jamesm5192]

It is hard for me to imagine how this situation could get anymore twisted & dishonest. If you can't see it by now, then I see no use in making some kind of commenting trying to highlight what is plain as day.

[@jamesm5192]

1) be forced to admit you were entirely delusional about your attainments 2) twisted that into no one has or could have any cuz you didn't - and that you've attained something higher yet again 3) proselytize that there is no such thing as attaining anything and everyone is equal 4) flaunt your hypocrisy as you continue to preach this new message down to us. 5) congrats, you're another new age marxist who hates the good, true and the beautiful This "Being Untangled" channel was not nearly hard enough on Delson. Everyone is so caught up in seeming higher spiritually than everyone else. Their money, and status and everything is invested in it! There is absolutely nothing to differentiate these people from your average charlatans, con artists and sociopaths. Most commenters are clearly suffering from a sort of ideological stockholm syndrome. Once a lie is proven, then you need to look into the liar instead of rushing to discount that it was a lie and running a cover narrative that it is a "phase" and it is "normal" and it is "actually really humble" or is "just part of the path," etc. Was all of your interest in recognizing what "spiritual bypassing" is a lie as well? And how twisted is it that you're all going along with this "kill the buddha" response while 1) none of you believe in killing 2) none of you are even willing to say things that could make you look unpopular or unspiritual? Why can't anyone talk straight? Words have lost their meanings in the "spiritual world."

[@anandaji4075]

@@jamesm5192 He also neglects to reference “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him” is a koan by Linji Yixuan.

[@brianl9419]

What's also baffling (and worrying), is why so many people are saying they admire him for being so brave including Steve James. You were bang on the money with 'There is absolutely nothing to differentiate these people from your average charlatans, con artists and sociopaths.' comment.

[@anandaji4075]

@@brianl9419 Brave would be platforming critiques of Suttavadins teaching including TWIM, 6Rs, etc founded by Bhante Vimalaramsi. The best show was the critique of Daniel Ingram's teachings by Bhikkhu Analayo played by Guru Viking. Ep73: Dangerous and Delusional? - Daniel Ingram The 4 right efforts as explained in the suttas don't lead to blanking out.

[@mysalam]

This is my response to Delson. I see much wisdom reflected in your words. However, the challenge I perceive is that you have identified with your experiences rather than integrating them into the flow of daily, ordinary life. We often discuss and hear about non-dual practices, but we rarely grasp what it truly means to live a life that is both deeply spiritual and beautifully ordinary. There is no need to proclaim any attainment or to renounce one’s achievements. The moment someone announces their enlightenment, they become bound by the expectations of others regarding how an enlightened person should behave. Enlightenment, in truth, is about allowing the energy of nature to move through us freely. This process can sometimes appear irrational, even to ourselves. Yet, through these moments, we are given opportunities for integration, bringing us closer to the ideal state we aspire to embody. While we may never entirely rid ourselves of impurities, we can continually strive to purify our intentions. This striving is the essence of being human. Enlightenment means fully embracing the human experience-living a rich life with family, friends, and the narratives that make us human-not seeking to become divine. This, I believe, is what the Buddha taught: not to be perfect, but to aspire toward perfection.

[@BjörnS1993]

Can we have another dialog between delson and daniel now please :)

[@tomtillman]

Hell yes! That would be amazing. What do you think, Steve?

[@danielm.ingram1449]

Sure, happy to if they wish to and if it would be helpful.

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

​@@danielm.ingram1449hey Daniel, you still doing emails? I don't think I have gotten a response to some I have sent in the past month or two 😛

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

​@@danielm.ingram1449 hi Daniel! I haven't received responses to email questions in over a month or two, everything ok? I know you are catching up on them a lot of the time, just wondering if I should resend

[@wolfk2258]

Delson can renounce his claim he had no cravings for sensual pleasures and affirm he's a polyamorous Arahat (see Unentangled Interview with Upbekkha where Delson says it) now like a lot of Gurus.

[@jonathanaviss6742]

What a fantastic Intivew. There seems to be a lot coming out now about awakening that include being a human which is such a positive thing. I spent so many years feeling like a spiritual failure because I had these spiritual experiences and was then dragged back into my humanity and because the teachers and teachings I followed seemed to imply that Awakening was some how ment to end all that human stuff spiritually became just another thing to feel bad about myself for. I think that spirituality that includes our complicated human condition is so important and a huge breath of fresh air!

[@catherinehelle7267]

I commend him for his humility and honesty. That said, I think he is speaking categorically about the process and how it works when he hasn’t reached the end. You can absolutely be free of craving. Feeling like you need something you don’t have (ex. When he says he wants a family) in the present moment IS delusion. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, but you can be free of craving or needing anything external. You can live fully in the present. You can be free of the desire for money, power, and sex. Because attachment to outcomes that you aren’t currently living is still just more suffering. He’s definitely on to the religious syncretism idea. If you have access to multiple religions’ dharma, learn all about them and try anything! That said, better to go to someone who is straightforward about their cravings than those who lie and say they have none when they do. I also disagree on his stance around devotion. You can absolutely be devoted to a guru in a non harmful way. But you should make sure that you acknowledge the person’s human faults and don’t blindly accept everything they say. That does not preclude devotion. And finally, shadow work is absolutely necessary. No way around it! He is doing great being forthright about this stuff but I just can’t get behind the way he speaks to desire and aversion. Desire and aversion is suffering. They are empty. You can be free!

[@OldWolf1933]

Agreed, that we can free ourselves of craving, and it's important to add clinging or attachment to that, at least for me. As far as guru devotion, my view is more that I am grateful for them expressing their knowledge when it has truly been helpful. And this becomes gratitude, maybe gratitude devotion. Some seekers are more caught up in the cultural craving and attachment or even the appearance of their guru, rather than the teaching itself (at least in the beginning). It has to be a truly helpful teaching, and if it is, I don't care how the guru or teacher looks.

[@cbesc]

Can you share what practice has helped you with craving?

[@catherinehelle7267]

@ i am sure this is not what anyone wants to hear, but my answer is devotion. That’s why so many of the Indian sages and Christian mystics talk about devotion. Because it really works.

[@FruityDance-o3f]

So you posted this comment why? Is there perhaps something in you which moved and you allowed yourself to be moved?

[@catherinehelle7267]

@@FruityDance-o3f indeed, but I don’t follow why that would prevent me from commenting on this video to call out inaccuracies I notice.

[@johnandrewmunroe]

The ultimate renunciation: renunciating the renunciation. Respect!

[@anandaji4075]

Nirodha samāpatti already ends anything to renounce as well as the one renouncing.

[@downtownjb100]

I've been waiting for this since the last few interviews. Hopefully there will be others to come out

[@tomtillman]

Wow! Thanks. May I suggest an another interview with Delson and Daniel Ingram?

[@dhammaboy1203]

Having listened to this full interview - the interview itself is internally logically inconsistent. IF you sincerely renounce all attainments, on what basis do you later justify redefining the Sutta definitions of said attainments? Either you're not sincere in renouncing (in which case it's misleading) or you're redefining stages of insight without the necessary experience and insight. You cant have it both ways! I'm also suspicious of anyone who redefines 2600 year old insight stages to match their own experience. What's more likely - for 2600 years no one has noticed the claims don't hold up or, you're redefining the attainments to adjust to a limitation of one's own spiritual development or to boost one's ego. The only thing I agree with Delson is - stop seeking answer from gurus and find out for yourself!

[@anandaji4075]

Delson-"I am not any guru of any lineage. One of my intentions is to end the infantilization of both students and teachers, and to help people come out of this tired old model of guru worship and student disempowerment" "As a lineage holder of Lahiri’s Kriya, Delson has been initiated in all seven stages and is authorized to disseminate this knowledge to those who seek it"

[@headlessness]

I will say that the particular thumbnail/screen capture chosen for this video seems to be intentionally portraying a sense of despondency in Delson, which to me, in conjunction with the content, amounts to a rather subtle attempt at "click bait" as it is not reflective of Delson's attitude in the video.

[@scrungletech]

Man's gotta make a living, I support Guru Viking figuring out the algorithm. The door to the house is not the content of the house, and that's fine.

[@johninman7545]

I wish that people would before restrained and polite and kind and loving .That's the Path

[@Divya-1-1]

I am currently reading mind without craving as I put effort in deepening my practice and understanding. This conversation seems perfectly timed. Can’t wait for it to premiere and listen to everything Delson has to say.

[@a314]

Just want to point out that Daniel Ingram told you this experience and realization will come into existence during one of the interviews, if you remember. Student disempowerment is a true problem with the culture of the east. I found Daniel's book/relatable for many reasons and this is definitely one of them. Thanks for this interview, Steve and Delson. Please do a 3 way interview with Daniel if possible.

[@neemnyima2166]

Thanks Delson. I would love to see another talk between Delson and Daniel Ingram. 🙏

[@Dview550]

You go Delson, You don’t owe anyone except yourself your own Liberation.

[@Ifasanya]

Definitely some things I felt in the TWIM community and others that pressure you to be perfect. Especially when you are a "good" meditator.

[@gerhard108]

Why are so many people praising Delson for his humbleness? How is it humble to take back completely unrealistic and delusional claims? But he apologized and that is a good thing. How many people were mislead by him…

[@anandaji4075]

Delson was teaching Bhante Vimalaramsi's delusional reinterpretation of the entire 8 fold path. You can prove this yourself by reading the suttas and comparing. The 4 Right Efforts the Buddha taught are unrecognizable in the 6Rs and removed. The 8-Fold Path in Practical Terms by Venerable (Bhante) U Vimalaramsi "SAMMA VᾹYᾹMA" - Harmonious Practice (Right Effort): Now we come to another aspect of the 8-Fold Path that is quite important. One of the best descriptions of Harmonious Practice(Right Effort) is: When a person recognizes that their mind’s attention has become distracted, by a thought, feeling, or sensation - this is the first part of Harmonious Practice (Right Effort). Next one lets go of the distraction and relaxes the tightness or tension in both their mind and body, then they smile! The diversion away from one’s meditation object is a movement of mind’s attention toward a distraction (Nivāraṇa) and away from one’s breath and relaxing or metta. This is the cause of the tightness or tension (Craving) to arise. This happens every time mind’s attention gets pulled away and this causes craving (Taṇhā), clinging (Upādāna) and our habitual tendency (Bhava) to arise. (These are three very important parts of Dependent Origination to be recognized and observed closely) The Habitual Tendency (Bhava) always re-acts in the same way when this sort of distraction arises. The more one sees clearly how these different aspects of Dependent Origination occur the easier it is to let them go. This is a part of the way that leads to the cessation of suffering! The letting go, relaxing, and smiling is the second part of the Harmonious Practice (Right Effort). The term letting go means that the person no longer keeps their mind’s attention on that distraction, so to be even more precise we can say letting the distraction be there without giving it any more of mind’s attention. Next, the person gently redirects mind’s smiling attention back to the object of meditation (the Breath and relaxing or Metta and relaxing) - this is the third part of Harmonious Practice (Right Effort). Then the person stays on the meditation object and smiles for as long as they can, naturally, which is the last part of the Harmonious Practice (Right Effort). Over the years, I have developed a very effective way of remembering how to do this practice - it is called the "6R’s" that is: To Recognize - that mind has become distracted away from the object of meditation; To Release - or let go of, or let distraction be without keeping mind’s attention on it; To Relax - the tightness or tension caused by that distraction, this means to let go of the craving caused by that distraction; To RE-SMILE - to bring a light mind that is very alert, and calm to the meditation object; To RETURN - mind’s joyful attention back to the meditation object (the breath and relaxing or Metta and relaxing ); To REPEAT - the task of staying with the meditation object, relaxing, and smiling. The smile is actually a very good tool to help mind stay uplifted and with the enlightenment factor of joy in one’s mind, every movement of mind’s attention is seen very quickly and clearly. That is to: RECOGNIZE; RELEASE; RELAX; RE-SMILE; RETURN; REPEAT. These words do not have to be said internally to oneself. They are just a reminder to let go of any distraction that pulls mind’s attention away from the object of meditation and it tells how to come back to the meditation object with a happy mind that has no craving or clinging in it. In other words how to purify one’s mind of all kind’s of troubles, cravings, and fetters. ____________________________________________ In addition, with the 4 right efforts, you are guaranteed to pass Daniel Ingram's Hottie in a hot tub test by preventing a unwholesome state from arising by avoiding danger. The definition (the four Right Exertions): "And what, monks, is right effort? [i] "There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen. [ii] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen. [iii] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen. [iv] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort." - SN 45.8

[@LeftOfToday]

I respect this a lot. I try to keep a syncretic perspective about spiritual practice and attainment because I, too, am weary of anything claiming to be the only way, and there will always be the individual as part of whatever process they choose to follow. There is guidance to be found in many different schools and perspectives, but there can also be pitfalls. For instance, I see this even in the Jungian community where many believe doing just as Jung did (active imagination) is "the way" despite just mimicking what he did hardly sounds like individuation to me, and this seems to miss the point of his mere example given the intention. It makes sense to me that if you can ascend the ladder, you can descend it, too. I wonder how many high profile spiritual leaders have found this to be true of themselves but are unwilling to admit it. Undoubtedly, if you are expected to be of a certain attainment, the pressure to keep up appearances - no matter how disingenuous it might be given the context - must be palpable. I've certainly experienced some individuals who also use spiritual practices as a way to avoid their shadows, and like Delson said, this only provides it the darkness to grow. This was very human and I appreciate the open mindedness, as well as the strength it must have taken to make this decision.

[@alinabarlogeanu]

What a wonderful interview. Probably most problems in spiritual communities come from one thing: oedipus complex. This can be brought down to one thing: submission to models. Delson is probably one of the very very few peopple who has overcome this. Good for him. And for us.

[@anandaji4075]

Oedipus complex is Freud's cocaine fueled imaginations!

[@boulderguitarcoach5269]

Kudos to Delson for his bravery and honesty. It’s so interesting to see a similar transformation in my own formerly Buddhist teacher… toward embracing our humanity, coming into the body, recognition of the divine feminine, shadow work and healing trauma. I see this as the evolution of awakening itself! 🙏🏼

[@sreymarch88]

Thank you for being truthful about your experiences on the journey of awakening !

[@billusher2265]

A discussion between Delson, Daniel Ingram, and Shinzen Young on these topics would be interesting

[@legtornasz6858]

I really respect Delson's self-reflection but I feel he wants to bend bauddhadhamma to his needs. Are desire to sex, angry feelings present? The doctrine of 10 fetters is not valid anymore. Maybe a little more doubt in your realization is necessary. Maybe the destruction of 10 fetters as the marks for the awakening states are still valid but you aren't there... If a practicer is uncomfortable because his angers and desires are present despite his believes in own awakening state, this is OKAY because he finally knows there is still work to do.

[@fang-c5b]

nobody should bend buddha dhamma. If you are not there, then more work is to be done if enlightenment is the goal. Otherwise do whatever one likes and enjoy the karma

[@thegr8goblin]

@delson999 your comment on 2026-27 literally gave me chills. This same premonition has been looming over me as well. Enough so that i have questioned myself, if i am becoming ungrounded and need to step back and take stock of myself. On another note i would love to hear you speak in kriya and energy. Perhaps in a future interview? Thanks for doing what you do guys!!

[@attic42]

Oh wow. This is going to be something. I'm commenting 4 hours before the premiere. I have learned so much from Delson Armstrong these past six months since I first discovered him, and now I suspect that even if he steps aside as a formal teacher I will be learning even more. I have a feeling this will begin an even deeper level of Delson's path, one with more grounding, humility, openness, and insight. Looking forward to it. Thank you.

[@Breadfruitmyfriend]

Delson, your books were indeed helpful for me. I read them all. I really liked this video and I've asked took the "low risk" approach. I never invested a lot of money in spirituality. It has always been books, watching videos, etc. I don't blindly trust teachers. I trust my experience. I agree with you about basic instincts. What binds us to the cycle of samsara is the attachment, the thirst to the things here. If we enjoy ourselves here with wisdom but we're not attached to the experience, there's nothing else to do here and we don't come back.

[@headlessness]

This is such a great interview. Thank you Delson and thank you Guru Viking for making this interview possible.

[@anandaji4075]

This was re-posted in Dhamma Wheel. Who are the Suttavadins? The dark truth behind Delson Armstrong, Bhante Vimalaramsi, and TWIM

[@andrews7414]

Wait… so he’s apologizing for something that wasn’t posted?

[@guitarsfromhell77]

Something not mentioned in this interview; Verified on X 11/17 in a tweet, Delson is NOT renouncing his claim to attain Nirodha Samapatti for 24+ plus hour durations as he has stated he is able on Guru Viking Episode 102 @1:25:02. He claims the anecdote about being moved from one location to another via friends carrying him while in Nirodha is true. Upon further questioning he mentioned that he is not, at this time, willing to be observed doing a Nirodha session of 24+ duration in front of expert witnesses. He said "I don't feel like it right now". He also said he would be unwilling to sit for 8 hours in duration in any state on a timestamped livestream.

[@anandaji4075]

Thanissaro Bhikkhu: Stream Entry (2 of 2) on You Tube describes the blanking out state you can also have a timed exit which is wrong concentration @ nine.30.

[@thehiddenyogi8557]

"And arhat is somebody who sees the nondharma in the dharma and the dharma in the nondharma." -Delson Armstrong. ""Wherein Sorrow is Joy, and Change is Stability, and Selflessness is Self." Crowley's version of Ipsissimus includes "seeing first the truth and then the falsity of the Three Characteristics" according to his published theory. The Ipsissimus is described as having no internal or external necessity, with no will or consciousness involving duality. This grade is considered the pinnacle of spiritual evolution, and its achievement is meant to be kept secret even from the rest of the Order.

[@saraswati999]

I think having a right teacher is important, I do not know how one can be successful in their practices without Guru

[@anandaji4075]

"It doesn't quite follow, does it" Famous quotes from Guru Viking. Ep120: Meditation Virtuoso - Delson Armstrong @ 1 hour and 40 minutes. It would be revealing for once to see a video Delson disagrees with rather than all this fluff self promotion. One claiming the fruition of an arhat is now afraid of a video interview?

[@naftalibendavid]

Social primates fall in love. We are all innocent on that count. May all be happy!

[@AsianburnsForlife]

The lovely thing is Delson's probably the closest he has ever been to attainment by going through this process of renuciation and letting go

[@wolfk2258]

Being Untangled channel has many TWIM counters and recent videos include the "slimey" video Delson refers to here. Imo the interview is not slimey at all. It's by Dor a student of Delson's with Delson doing 95% of the talking. If it's a slimey it's Delson doing the sliming of talking poorly of many people. It seems naive that someone can be middle aged like Delson and thinks that all monks are exemplars of practice. There's also an interview with Samanera Uphekkha who was abused as a monk at TWIM by David Johnson, Delson, and the TWIM cabal. Funny, Hector tells of Delson wanting to be polyamorous now. Lol. A polyamorous Arahat,!

[@skillfulmeans88]

a polyamorous arahat who loves his desert 😂😂😂 what a clown

[@Cheguebuddha]

Goodman Delson! Best wishes!

[@littledarkone1995]

After enlightenment, still so so human

[@zamplify]

An obvious charlatan.

[@jplmedley]

Name calling doesn’t inform…. It’s indistinguishable from trolling.

[@orshaharorna.shahar8921]

I thank Dalson for his statement and the interview. Every word touched me in a place of truth inside me! He is not my teacher but for some reason I have been thinking about him in the last few weeks. I gave up the status of 'teacher' and 'student' 18 years ago because I felt that I was not 'clean' enough. Only in the last two years am I slowly starting to come back. Moreover, if I return to teach I must promise myself to listen to this conversation again from time to time, to remember the pitfalls and dangers. Now it's Daniel Ingram's turn...

[@UnmaskMMA]

Are you seriously this stupid?

[@rihhard1072]

Very very interesting, and very brave from Delson. Now I wonder what Daniel Ingram thinks of all this 😁

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

Probably what we all think. He was making extremely high claims that seem impossible, and most of us have a lot of respect for the willingness to renounce these claims and admit that they may not be realistic. I was shocked to see this under my suggested as I had JUST watched his other video on here with Daniel and have seen it multiple times over the past few years. Yet delighted. Very brave of him to do this and makes me respect him and see him as a more genuine spiritual practitioner now.

[@OldWolf9226]

@@user-fg3fv9hl3b Delson has never claimed to be an Arahant, whereas, Daniel has. Though, it's good Delson is recognizing and making it clear, the drawbacks of the various traditions including the TWIM method. Still, the TWIM method has a relaxed approached and suggests most anyone can attain to a jhana, at the least. Where most Buddhist schools are hardcore, suggesting it is next to impossible to attain to a Jhana.

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

@OldWolf9226 again, not true haha. Did you watch the video of Delson vs Daniel? He did claim to be an arahant of the highest calibre. I have watched it probably at least 6 times by this point, and it is a point I have noticed every time.

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

@OldWolf9226 to clarify, Delson does not outright say the words "I am an arahant" but he does agree/ say yes when asked questions by Guru Viking that are the criteria for it.

[@patrickl5290]

Makes one wonder if Daniel Ingram’s model is more sensible. I was always skeptical that this guy experienced “no negative emotions”

[@hinlic1955]

This is a wonderful interview Steve. It sounds like Delson has reached the stage of early Chan maters in China before my tradition became formalised. He seems to have a better understanding of the mechanics of monastic life than his teacher did now. Although my tradition is full of the problems he talks about, I have no plans to disrobe as I see the position of a monk in the Chinese tradition still to be helpful to myself & others. Delson is by far, not the only person with these views.

[@moonmissy]

@@hinlic1955 that’s because Delson hasn’t spent enough time with monastics of any Buddhism tradition. I spent my childhood growing up in temples spending more time there than the playground. I’m not surprised of all he talked about. I’ve seen a lot lot more and worse. But they’re all humans and still figuring out their paths. I don’t judge the few people who forgot their practice while in robes. That doesn’t deter me from the path or supporting monastics who honestly are trying to practice to their best ability. The people you meet on the path are not representative of the path, it’s your practice and experience that represents the path to you. Judge not unless you are willing to be judged. Everybody is human.

[@akashicturtle1827]

I appreciate Delson’s humility and honesty in admitting he wasn’t attained in the sense he thought it was. That said, I cannot help but suspect his views will change further. Maybe he’s not ready for the classic definition of arahatship, but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Why not flesh out the stream entry stage better? Or the stages before stream entry? To me that’s more worthwhile than trying to redefine the higher stages to be more “accesible.”

@@kzantalhow do you know he hasn’t entered the stream?

[@geovaniraffaelli4508]

Wow, I admire his humbleness

[@UnmaskMMA]

Bro, you are so fucking naive.

[@MrHansolaffen]

Hoping this is not just clickbait - seems extremely interesting, to be honest. Can't wait!

[@dailyfrench]

Thanks a lot to Delson Armostrong and Guru Viking for this discussion

[@tspack1]

This is amazing, thank you so much to Delson and Guru Viking

[@katrinabillings7011]

So much appreciation to Delson for his honesty and integrity. He's answered a lot of questions I had about him as a teacher. It all feels so much clearer to me now. I will be following him with interest now.

[@aware2action]

Best Attainment comes from knowing who you really are. Any seeking of knowledge aimed to not further this goal is fools gold.❤🙏

[@shemusmcquillaide]

Its normal, you are talking about only wanting to welcome aspirants who are serious. This is so important, if you want to be a Buddhist or whatever you imagine, not saying anything until you're ready is so important.

[@FRED-gx2qk]

I agree with the comparison between laypeople and monks its a farce! Many handle money and goods etc.

[@sreymarch88]

Thank you so much Guru Viking and Delson.

[@sharonfreedman8595]

I renounce my attainments and offer them up to the Great Creator and give thanks for the Gift of Life - A'HO

[@anandaji4075]

Claims? Basically, a 8 jhana master hopper who can enter and leave the cessation of perception and feeling at will. "This is how a stream-enterer is totally free from doubt. Having seen nirvana, he no longer has any doubts in the teaching and the path. It is like someone in a vast desert with a map looking for a city. He looks around and all he sees is sand, and he experiences doubt" This noble eightfold path - right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration - is the stream. (SN 55.5) "In this community of monks there are monks who, with the total ending of [the first] three fetters, are stream-winners, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening." - MN 118 Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven, lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them. - Dhp 178

[@wiwidity]

this was expected, his sincerity is very appreciated.

[@nicholasmarshall7229]

Whats with all the legalese?

[@anandaji4075]

I thought the same.

[@jamesm5192]

A den of snakes. Amazing how the commenters are all sucking it up. Well, it isn't amazing. The followers are just as delusional as the "teachers." Naturally!

[@AngelRPuente]

Bravo Delson! You have erased all the misgivings I had accumulated from your past interviews. I didn't doubt the experiences you spoke about, but always thought that holding them as a measure of attainment was a mistaken position. Even if the experience gives us faith in awakening: the conviction and certainty of its reality, it can't produce the Awakened life. This requires the continued cultivation and application of what we now know to be true: the primacy of awareness. I am sure you will be successful in teaching what you know.

[@sockneman]

Thank You Delson! Your journey reminds me a bit of of J. Krishnamurti’s.

[@Corteum]

Isn't attention also an attainment? And would you be willing to renounce it?

[@anandaji4075]

Figuring out what he renounced is no easy chore. He says on his You Tube when asked directly: @ArekStryjski 5 days ago Hi Delson, You mentioned that you "renounce any claim to specific attainments." Unfortunately, I find this statement a bit confusing, as it doesn’t explicitly address what many would consider your most significant attainment. For me, and likely for others, the only attainment that truly matters isn’t a title or recognition from any Buddhist school or tradition. What stands out is your claim to intentionally access nirodha samapatti, which, to my knowledge, has been validated through scientific study. If I’m not mistaken, I also recall that you’ve taught this practice in the past. Your renunciation raises a few important questions: 1. Are you still able to intentionally access nirodha samapatti? 2. Does your statement in any way invalidate parts of Dr. Laukkonen’s study? 3. Do you currently view nirodha samapatti as necessary or helpful on the path to awakening, or has your perspective shifted, seeing it now as a distraction? I apologize for raising this publicly, but I feel these are far more significant questions than any sectarian politics or misunderstandings that may have arisen. I’m sorry to hear about the trouble you’ve faced, and I understand it was unintended. With love and respect, Arek 1 Reply Delson Armstrong · 1 reply @delson999 5 days ago @ArekStryjski appreciate the questions. Suffice it to say when I mean specific attainments I mean I don’t subscribe to sectarian ideas of specific models like arahant or jivanmukta, etc. I am not renouncing nor denying my meditative capabilities. The Suttavadins consider blanking outs as attainments.

[@martinspiering5817]

"I believe that these [models of awakening] are all the cultural projections of the time for what their idea of a perfect person was or their idea of what it meant to be fully awakened." Yes, very well put, and a perfect example of Dependent Arising. No concept, person, or thing exists in isolation--they're all the products of myriad cultural, social, and historical conditions. To declare oneself to be enlightened/realized/awakened reveals a deep ignorance about this fundamental teaching and is therefore a sign of serious confusion.

[@jamesread-tannock7176]

This is weird though, because the Buddha definitely declared himself to be enlightened/realized/awakened. And we can't suppose that he was deeply ignorant about dependent arising :D

[@martinspiering5817]

@@jamesread-tannock7176 We cannot really know what the Buddha said. The Pali Canon, which relates his various original teachings (the first turning of the Dharma Wheel), was written down several 100 years after his death. Later very influential Mahayana sutras (e.g., the Diamond Sutra, Heart Sutra, and the Samdhinirmocana Sutra) were recorded even later (and expound some very profound teachings that put asterisks behind the notion of Buddhas and Buddhahood). These teachings are deeply paradoxical/confounding, but only so long as one holds to the strict notion (as many of us do) that language relates to experience one-to-one. When one considers these teachings as pointers to truth, not truth itself, they become much clearer and extremely valuable for practice.

[@gdansk12349]

This is what Vajrayana says about Hinayana if I recall correctly. Sooner or later you will have to start from the beginning again because of those knowledge obscurations

[@polydex108]

From the very beginning?

[@this775]

Good stuff, thx Delson and Steve

[@chefbob67]

So something really big is going down in 2026 and he had a vivid dream about an atomic explosion. Great! Now I’m feeling kinda nervous…

[@skillfulmeans88]

lol bro i've had many dreams of aliens and spaceship death rays and explosions... I was actually totally exploded from the death ray and woke up completely vibrating with high pitched ringing in my ears. one particularly vivid and disturbing dream was a volcano erupting and me running from the lava and literally getting swept up in a wave of lava and then floating in the lava, and the thought, "welp, I'm dead" and woke up.... death will come, whether tomorrow or in 100 years doesn't really matter, life goes on, eternally. we pick up where we left off in the next life, if we're lucky dispel nervousness and fear by calm abiding in the clear light of the mind. and then reflect on the truth of impermanence and the good fortune of this human birth and take advantage of the opportunity by practicing Dharma altruistically and with all your heart etc etc cheers 🙏

[@chefbob67]

@@skillfulmeans88 Thanks, Philly! I might just build up a small stock of potassium iodide while I continue my practice, just in case...

[@mrtnzrvr]

What’s happening in 2026? I found the part about the dream but I didn’t find anything about 2026. Was this something he mentioned

[@chefbob67]

@@mrtnzrvr Obviously, I am joking a bit here, but he mentions 2026 near the end around 1:33:40.

[@davidmickles5012]

If you ever find yourself "claiming your own attainments" rest assured you are "not there yet." I think this advice is quite useful.

[@littledarkone1995]

Now this should be interesting

[@satyenraja9284]

Nice to see such a humbling… whatever he becomes firm in belief now will also crumble a few years down the road…. enlightenment I believe can’t be attained ,only Graced and how that evolves from there is from Grace and surrender…. the Ox herd paintings are cyclical I believe and not one circle around ♥️🙇🏽🙏🏽

[@Asuwish1]

The new flex... Renouncement.

[@DavidAdriance]

Delson’s Krishnamurti moment

[@Myoshin.]

I recently came to the same conclusion that it's about reducing suffering. Personal suffering and the suffering of others. It's the bottom line.

[@karenpalazzini4400]

I have been wondering about this but it's tough to accurately reduce anything to one term like 'suffering'. I feel that truth or direct experience is very essential to reducing suffering. I also wonder if that the less one suffers, the more they might be available to truth. In which case, it seems helpful to add a discussion of truth to your formulation. ... Not a criticism - just an observation of something that I have been noticing about spiritual teachers (that they emphasize reducing suffering to the beginning students and then 'start getting real' as time goes on). I also notice it in myself NOW. When I speak with people about politics for example, I don't try to tell them the most 'obvious' point of disagreement with which I have the data or counter-example. I more often now try to couch what I am going to say to them in a way that will open their minds and reduce their perception of their suffering - which is perhaps behind the cause of them to make an err in their political perception. Not sure if this makes any sense! I am a Government teacher and I have to discuss politics 24-7 :(.

[@Breadfruitmyfriend]

After reading the discourses of the Buddha, he really meant the end of suffering rooted in ignorance through mindfully watching whatever comes up with dispassion, recognising it is impermanent, whether it is a feeling or thought. I've been practising almost unbroken mindfulness and I can see the mechanics in action. The Buddha is correct. I agree with Delson about basic instincts though. The body is connected to the mind so when the body needs something, this kind of natural craving is part of the human experience. The key here is to fulfil this craving without developing the kind of thirst after the need has been satisfied. This can be done with mindfulness.

[@sfbaylover]

@@karenpalazzini4400 If you have to discuss politics 24-7 you should be an expert on suffering. 😉

[@Myoshin.]

@@karenpalazzini4400 Yes definitely agree that direct experience is essential. Truth for me is the direct experience of life as it is and that truth is not a thought based truth and isn't about agreeing or disagreeing. In direct seeing the mind isn't engaged in habitual thinking and so suffering is automatically absent. If awakening didn't reduce suffering then it would be a pointless endeavor or something done to entertain the ego.

[@Myoshin.]

@@Breadfruitmyfriend Yes mindful watching resonates with me and I like what you call seeing the mechanics in action, as it actually is happening. The natural craving thing is interesting, in mindfulness one moment isn't connected to the next, it stands alone, but the ego strings it all together in time with thought and constructs a story about it , I suppose that a buddha would still experience bodily needs and preferences and these would be fulfilled or not but there wouldn't be a story of suffering attached perhaps.

[@MichaelRoper323]

Sorry everyone, but what the heck is 'TWIM'?

[@ddr80s]

Tranquil Wisdom Insight Meditation

[@Wordartz]

This in many ways is similar to what Culadasa said in one of the interviews. Arahantship is not the final stage there is more work to be done. In fact it’s a journey and not a destination. The quest never ends. He also mentioned about having to do therapy for past trauma and this was only months before he passed on. Daniel Ingram was more realistic in that he didnt believe someone’s personality would change just because they became an arahant. But I agree with Delson, we have to use whatever tools and traditions we come across to get from one station to another.

[@tomtillman]

Indeed, I thought of Culadasa during this interview.

[@Wordartz]

@ he did mention that suffering had reduced even amidst the scandals of his remaining years. His definition of nibbana was also similar to that of Delson and Daniel ie the cessation experience.

[@elizabethecarlisle1045]

Feigned humility and abject self centeredness ....how original.

[@simonsays525]

Stevie Wonder could see that Delson wasn't an arahant years ago, but people will believe what they want to believe.

[@jakubsowa2047]

😂

[@colinmuriithi7552]

I won't lie, I was initially thrown off by the tittle of the video, as Delson is a teacher I admired for his unique perspective, his books (I've only read Mind Without Craving for now) and his interesting anecdotes...but in this interview he clearly communicates what he means by renouncing his attainments, and I can see clearly that he has gone even deeper and further into wisdom and insight, even beyond his initial awakening experience.

[@Babassecretchannel]

We go through all kinds of experiences, disillusionments and maturation and that is all good. Let me ask however: If the attainment is complete, what is there to renounce and who is there to renounce it? The only attainment that can be renounced is partial attainment. My guru Sivakami also renounced whatever she had experienced and reached at one point of her path. It’s all good 🙏🙏🙏

[@jgarciajr82]

It sounds to me like guru's can grow up still 🙏💎💯👍♥️

[@thisthusthat]

Delson, if i might suggest another resource for you to consider of the Pali sutta translation not as understood and held by many buddhists especially in Theravada tradition, please listen to all late Bhante Punnaji explanation.

[@zevfeinstein2051]

Where is this declaration letter you are referencing? I can't find it anywhere online.

[@RobertPashayan]

It's interesting that all the ideas Delson is gradually expressing remind me the evolution of the Buddhist thought from early Buddhism into Mahayana then Vajrayana/Sahajayana.

[@BoSoen]

Exactly my thoughts when I listened to this episode

[@jplmedley]

Yes, but Mahayana and vajrayana are still struggling with these shadows as well… the guru worship, infantilizing students etc. still goes on. I suggest these are universal human challenges.

[@johnirish1018]

I understand and appreciate the concern and even the doubts, and yet I find it weird that only based on “at least one” example or even a couple examples of x is reason to question monastic or guru/disciple model, or to see teacher/student model as risky. Life is risky. There’s no approach, no model that avoids some risk. So I don’t want to critique the spirit of his initiative, I’m just not sure about the conclusions or emphasis, especially in light of witnessing that monastics are human, and that some have struggles. If we look at monastics all the whole, or even on average, are these problems rampant or universal? I don’t think the system would have survived if they were. I suppose he’s trying to offer a corrective to imbalances or extremes, but…

[@sanjeewakahawalage6654]

Thank you Delson. Because you I lean about jhanas and depending origination and wonderful teachings. Even aten ments also in permanent. So don't worry about other people say what to do or not to do. Buddha said question everything. It's good thing you're doing. Good luck.

[@sherrilawrence662]

Delson speaks with such courage and humility! Very impressive and I hope many more teachers will be this authentic if necessary. Growth should always include the right to new insights allowing one to change their minds ❤

[@Cheguebuddha]

"Its all fart in the wind" - Papa Che of the Barking Cloth

[@Fakery]

Thanks for sharing :) I enjoyed the discussion

[@SteveJail-w9d]

Real concerns but some very troubling conclusions that, if taken to their endpoint, would unravel the world.

[@sathya999]

"I Renounce My Attainments"...total egoic statement... Enlightenment is not owned by any little "i", so it cannot be renounced by an "i" As Suzuki Roshi said "There are no enlightened beings, but there is enlightenment"

[@David-i4q4n]

You sound like a fundamentalist. Your equally as steeped in it as any other religious fundamentalist

[@domanayaa]

Thank you for your candor!

[@lukemckean6155]

I wonder if he’s still charging $200 for a zoom call? Haha

[@mrh4742]

I wonder if he feels decent enough to refund all the money he may have asked from those poor students!

[@moonmissy]

@@lukemckean6155What? He charges money for a private meeting?

[@triciaschofield6159]

spot on, brilliant interview.

[@TheForeignersNetwork]

Idk man... Some of these ideas strike me as very "woo-woo." You either believe that enlightenment is impersonal because the self doesn't exist (and that yet, it can be attained on an individual basis), or you don't. I understand that the Theravada tradition has some differing views on what enlightenment is, but from a Mahayana perspective, getting caught up in meaning-making is regressive to the overall goal of reducing suffering. Suffering itself doesn't "mean" anything--It's just suffering. It occurs because we are mentally attached to objects and emotions. So the goal of practice should be to eliminate grasping at ignorance, desire, and aversion, and to help others do the same when possible. It's a very simple idea that is, in reality, very difficult to implement.

[@GaryBish-i8s]

I always dig Nelson, but the new version is on point. TWIM is a bit limited.