Gyakuten Kenji 2 OST ~ 46 - The Man Who Masterminds the Game

[@MrVectorMV]

Little did I realize that Edgeworth's final opponent would be, not just the clown, but the entire circus.

[@soyzomg7914]

Meme lore

[@SonicSanctuary]

omg, i didn't think of this!

[@POP-nm1ix]

This is so fucking genius!

[@acesenpai6971]

You know what makes it more legit? The fact that in the end, he told the mastermind that it's time for him to go back to being just a mere clown 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Scooter08-k1c]

I see what you did there

[@chaosemporium3901]

if this, and turnabout big top have taught me anything, it's that Regina needs better friends.

[@not_juano]

at least she didn't get dragged into the case here like in big top

[@ultimategrayfox]

soo very true indeed :D

[@insertgoodname4987]

And if money follows someone they're evil

[@Somethin5041]

Also that whoever makes these games dislikes circuses.

[@rogamu7531]

@@insertgoodname4987 *mind blown*

[@EvilRyuGuy]

Final boss guide in a nutshell: Present balloon, present balloon present balloon, present balloon...

[@slunt655]

UGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Just kidding

[@Banaerz]

+Evil Ryu At least we didn't have to present panties in court...

[@SLKibara]

.......... (Either one of the cases with Trucy's Magical Panties or a DR Reference)

[@pengie-gw2lu]

Somehow, that perfectly synced up with the song as I read it.

[@malucart]

That'd be bloomers. Despite the "Magic Panties" name, there were never any panties, sadly (as in, I don't necessarily wish there were more panties, just replace the bloomers, cause wtf).

[@HannyaKai]

"UWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!... Just Kidding."

[@MrVectorMV]

I thought it was going to pull that Ablaze bullshit when he did that.

[@Cloudnolife]

I love that shit, I mean He's the only character in the entire franchise to fake a Breakdown, that's a nice 4th dimension joke

[@gabrote42]

And Gustavia's theme really sold it!

[@ewanmiller3609]

That and your pfp do not go well at all

[@faresalsayed9005]

@@Cloudnolife spoiler alert for DGS 2 Hart vortex does it too

[@theoneandonlyarsonistofarland]

“We live in a society.” -The Man Who Masterminds the Game, probably

[@zezus001]

amazing

[@Kobaaming090]

He would say that honestly

[@zezus001]

@@Kobaaming090 he did (i thinm?)

[@thomashaeyen6942]

@@zezus001 im pretty sure he did say something like that.

[@nickbritt1145]

More likely, he’d say, "YOU GET WHAT YOU F***ING DESERVE!!" to the ones who ruined his life.

[@joshrapson1502]

The team at Capcom did such a great job of making this guy seem like just a one-off filler character during case 2, while also establishing that he has a connection to Knightley so that the plot twist makes sense in hindsight. Probably my favorite Ace Attorney villain, with Damon Gant not too far behind

[@ineedabetterpfp2485]

I noticed this didn’t have comments, but I didn’t have anything to comment on. So I panicked. Get more comments so I can stop panicking. Right now.

[@HyLion]

I got spoiled on the twist a long time ago, and his transition into the "mastermind persona" was still such a satisfying moment

[@louisejeez]

@@HyLion I just finished the game recently, and even though I was also spoiled on Simon being a villain, I was still amazed at how everything connected together. What blew me away especially was the connection to the inherited turnabout. What an incredible game lol

[@anamatildefrias4606]

@@HyLion i was also spoiled beforehand, but still, for me this reveal was soooo much better than Engarde's. I pretty much guessed Engarde's twist. It was kinda obvious, for me at least (I still think he's a great antagonist though). I don't know if it's because I watched the anime first, but at the point where Maya's kidnaped and you're FORCED to defend Matt I was like: "He is gonna end up being the killer, isn't he?". But yeah, even though I knew Simon was the villain, i found myself wondering during the entire game if maybe the spoiler i got was a joke. And it's that what makes this reveal so awesome: you can still appreciate it, even when you've been spoiled, because it makes you doubt if you got spoiled right. Besides, compare Simon to the other main antagonists. You have a prosecutor, the chief of police, a super star, a GHOST, a defence attorney, a spy, a queen, an ambassador; and then you have Simon Keyes: a completely normal person who works as a clown. For me it's 2nd best twist in Ace Attorney. "That twist" in SoJ case 5 takes the top for me.

[@joshuaburnett7643]

@@anamatildefrias4606 Engarde's is definitely hinted at a whole lot up until the reveal, whereas Simon's just kinda perfectly falls into place when you discover knightleys ring, which I think helps it

[@BladeShadowWing]

He didn't have a breakdown like most AA villains. He had a BEATDOWN!

[@dhruvavikas1632]

UAAAAHAHAHHGAHGGHAGH Just kidding

[@rbxless]

@@dhruvavikas1632 I actually lost my shit when he said that, I bet he's actually a pretty good clown.

[@skissors]

@@rbxless yep, a good tragic clown.

[@yuwu585]

Seven Page Eureka

[@annetakamaki]

I daresay he pulled off a better Matt Engarde than the man himself.

[@Thegeektoendallgeeks]

i concur

[@robertodasilva4801]

Amanda S Nah nothing beats that "How do you do mr lawyer" line with core 2002 kicking in for the first time

[@galoostic]

"Now, I can rip that confidence to shreds." *snap*

[@AB-dm1wz]

I feel like you-know-who from DGS does a better job, just because he never flat out says he's guilty.

[@hamstersandwich9917]

@@AB-dm1wz does he tho? I thought he was pretty obvious

[@llSuperSnivyll]

Something I appreciate in the second Investigations game is something that tends to be uncommon in games: having the big bad be a *lesser* evil.

[@HyLion]

The only reason he's a bad guy is because he used the wrong methods, because his goals were actually good.

[@gibraltar4841]

@@HyLion His ideologies were good but his methods of achieving them were bad

[@not_juano]

he's only considered a bad guy because he got unrelated third parties involved. otherwise all he did was take the biggest scums down with him

[@marieisthebestsquidsister]

@@gibraltar4841 _he's like chairman rose_

[@ihtilalci]

@@gibraltar4841 This why the end *does not* justifies the means.

[@ImFangzBro]

He won, you know. He got what he wanted. Blaise, Patricia, Knightley... They all fell at his hand. And the world improved because of it.

[@HyLion]

Its really satisfactory to take him down, but when you think about it... His punishment was just going to a prison where his biggest idol lives, and play with animals all day.

[@calistoyew1313]

“He won, y’know.”

[@SamTheMarioMan]

Don't forget Huang's body double too. If it wasn't for his selfish actions, the entire game (except for Chapter 3) wouldn't have happened

[@smashboo9852]

@@SamTheMarioMan not even case 3 bc Miles wouldn't have met Ray

[@ananini_ringleadernico]

Honestly? Simon is probably one of the only vilains in AA that i actually rooted for. Although not morally correct, in the end he did do the world some good

[@COMBOY]

I love how this entire game feels like being trapped in a big Chess game from the beginning to the end. You first encounter three of the main pieces, the Rook (Rooke), the Knight (Knightley) and ""The King"" (Huang's body double). Next, you find the Queen (Roland) and the Bishop (Dogen). And around the way you meet The REAL King (Blaise), and the innocent ones that were used as the Pawns in this big Chess game, only to find out at the end that you also became a Pawn since Case 1, you got used to defeat the already mentioned main pieces, all because of one single guy that strategically manipulated you and everyone else as his own pieces in his highly orchestrated Chess game of deception and vengeance. You face at the end the one player in the Chess game, Simon Keyes!

[@AlicornLiaTv]

I love this analysis

[@samukogames]

plus blaise sees sebastian as his pawn haha

[@ligamo]

@@samukogames that one pawn that protects the king at all times

[@ZE.brigitte]

@@ligamo Maybe the pawn who will become the Queen Atleast, was supposed to

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

@@ZE.brigitte wouldnt that be patricia roland?

[@YvngXero]

I'm glad for what Simon brought to the series. Most final villains like Gant, Alba, the Phantom, are guys who are "untouchable" for one reason or another. That's scary in its own right, but Simon was just a methodical sociopath who was betrayed by his best friend, his family, and the law. That hits home for Edgeworth especially who was betrayed by his mentor, had no real father, and lost sight of the relationship between law and truth. He was an amazing final boss because he wasn't this extremely powerful guy, he just got lucky and had the patience and will for revenge.

[@majidoujaa5592]

In fact if not for him, the untouchable corrupt PIC chairman/former chief prosecutor would have never been caught

[@pkmntrainerred4247]

He was untouchable not because of power, but because of his 10000000 IQ impostor strats. Trully refreshing.

[@NeonNights6675]

To think he would’ve gotten away with it had Lotta not accidentally taken a picture and Regina not spill the beans about Simon darted off with it just makes him so much of a better villain as well.

[@dbat978]

I really like the idea that what made Dahlia untouchable was just literally being dead

[@Julian-nu4bx]

Agreed. We had already gotten the "person in a position of authority who uses their status to become untouchable" a few times with guys like Von Karma, Gant, and Alba, so when Blaise Debeste came along, even though i thought he was a funny character, i was kind of dreading the idea that we were going to get *another* final boss using that trope. Thankfully they subverted that trope with Simon. Brilliant twist.

[@Zyphon]

This is a huge moment in the game, where Edgeworth defeats a criminal mastermind by talking to him

[@windowdev]

Yes. But taking him down was a but pain in the ass :/ But it felt so satisfying taking him down and seeing his breakdown.

[@YourMom-lm2vk]

Wow, Zyphon funny seeing you here

[@homierobot]

E

[@crypt5129]

Didn’t expect to see you here

[@gibraltar4841]

@@windowdev Quercus Alba was way less satisfying to break down than Simon (at least to me) and if my memory serves me correctly (my mind could very well be playing tricks on myself as I haven't played the first Investigations game in forever) you had to break down so many of his testimonies to the point where it became a bit boring and tedious

[@StealthAngel667]

This game just really tries to make you hate circuses huh.

[@toprak3479]

JFA does that too.

[@LilacShowers]

+Shroud3d It just made me hate journalists c:

[@Magikarpador]

+Noah Grimberg Gamergate didn't do that already?

[@pengie-gw2lu]

As if the song in JFA didn't manage well enough already.

[@semireese]

I guess Capcom has a berry big problem with circuses

[@theivoryguy2476]

Only Ace Attorney could make someone opening their eyes so shocking.

[@Riobjection]

Yeah..really

[@ceresco_]

First wocky's dad now this guy

[@galegopaulista4564]

@@ceresco_ actually the first was Mimi Miney, although Wocky's dad did shock me more. I didn't even realize the shadows were actually eyebrows. Edit: wait, I just realized the first one to do it was actually Frank Sahwit.

[@ihaetschool3361]

dual destinies one ups this imo only ace attorney can make a change in expression terrifying

[@toxinrazor6489]

@Qwertee 7581 but he didn’t look that menacing

[@TheAzulmagia]

I knew the guy in the red hood was going to end up being the Joker.

[@Banaerz]

+CheesyGranola DUDE. I never realized that. It's brilliant is what it is.

[@topnotchshinobi]

Bonus points for Ray mocking Simon with a "Why so serious?" reference, too. :)

[@mohanad-z7513]

He wasn't only the joker, he was the entire freaking Circus.

[@fatuusdottore]

Simon knew we live in a society.

[@WednesdayMan]

Simon wasn't really the bad guy, he saw problems that existed and made an effort to make the world a better place by removing the problems himself it was clear that the law wasn't going to do anything unless he made them do something, in the end Simon was right, "we do live in a society".

[@lopesdoria]

You know what I most love about how Capcom made this last villian? He only reveals himself when disguised as a clown, so if you happen to accidentally see an image of his true form (like I did), you still would not know that it is Simon Keyes.

[@e3v4nn37]

I had the exact same experience, I'm so happy that I didn't get one of the best twists in the series exposed to me like that

[@twosoup3252]

The same thing happened to me for Matt Engarde. I had seen a picture of his true self before but couldn't even tell it was the same person based off of how wildly different he looked

[@Riobjection]

@@e3v4nn37 y'all are really lucky TuT I knew it was him before I even played the game because of spoilers so I didn't even have the surprise ;u;

[@Valetravelgames]

i saw his true form before seeing the game so when i've seen his makeup i was like "wait"

[@dhruvavikas1632]

@@Valetravelgames OBJECTION! evidence show that you go to meet simon only after you deduce that he is the mastermind and when you meet him after that you see his clown makeup for the first time So u would already know he is the culprit even before seeing him in makeup

[@julianfan5794]

That moment you got to the fingerprint section and you realize..... You don’t have a microphone “Hah! Looks like you won’t be able to convict me! All part of my plan!”

[@lain7758]

RIP. That's Nintendo, putting an end to game piracy since Earthbound Giygas

[@fatuusdottore]

hahahahahah, true. 😂😂😂 I found a way around it tho.

[@fatuusdottore]

lain lmao

[@raid9913]

@@fatuusdottore I emulated the input audio to get past this section

[@AE86FTS]

I use Desmume which has the option to set a microphone hotkey

[@silverdays7]

this was the first game of the series where i felt personally betrayed when i found out who the mastermind was. it was legitimately painful. it really was a 'WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE YOU?' moment

[@Riobjection]

I'm pretty sad I've been spoiled on who it was. I kind of want to know this feeling

[@Valetravelgames]

nowaynowaynowaynowaynoway!

[@blackknightjack3850]

Keyes was a much better twist villain than Fulbright, but I was hurt more by Fulbright because I actually liked him as a character. Sure Gumshoe is a loveable dope, but Fulbright was a lovable dope who LARPed as the most stereotypical good guy out there.

[@Nehfarius]

@@blackknightjack3850 RIP Bobby Fulbright. In justice we trust.

[@jessequeen4550]

@@blackknightjack3850 I absolutely despised Fullbright, so I had no emotion taking him down. Though tbh Dual Destinies didn’t really get much out of me in it’s entirety

[@helmerdekker2517]

What's funny is that if we listened to Debeste he would've been caught wayyyy earlier

[@rainbowthedragoncat6768]

Sebastian is Debeste

[@tochopals4931]

That's right all but neither Blaise, nor Patricia and that body double would've been caught so I think its a good thing

[@helmerdekker2517]

@@tochopals4931 fair enough

[@davidholmgren8156]

@@tochopals4931 true but on the other hand Jill Crane who seemed to be a good citizen was murdered so upsides and downsides

[@tochopals4931]

@@davidholmgren8156 yeah. Long story short: It was necessary to carry story

[@tastethepainbow]

I can't wait until new fans finally get to experience the best damn villain Ace Attorney has to offer now that AAI2 is releasing internationally after all these years.

[@davepanpa5787]

The only looming question now... What will his localised name be?

[@ThatObjectionGuy]

it was something like Manny Plater but I forgor​@@davepanpa5787

[@ocarinaofdread]

completely agree!

[@ThatObjectionGuy]

@@ocarinaofdread hello apollo

[@murpaderp8461]

If only they aped the fan translation.

[@adnaP_esreveR]

It takes two Simon's to prove that looks can indeed be very, very misleading.

[@emmanuelerebella9773]

Reverse Panda wait are you on reddit?

[@bookofgrimoire9193]

And one dahlia

[@gabrielsilverio2294]

With a pinch of Quercus Alba.

[@user-bj5ki6sr6c]

@@gabrielsilverio2294 and a side of Fulbright

[@qwiikry699]

Two tablespoons of Matt Engarde

[@davefood635]

My friendship ended with the enemy who was above the law. The man who masterminded the game is my new friend.

[@theguywhoruinsthejoke9027]

And by all accounts, he succeeded. Knightley’s dead. Blaise, Roland, and Gustavia are all behind bars. And now, he’s in safety with the man who saved him all those years ago.

[@escopeto7849]

You forgot that he personally axed the body double, which he can easily claim self defense thereof. He won. He just didn't get the satisfaction of being undiscovered.

[@eldritchskye2608]

@@escopeto7849he probably got more satisfaction from people finding him out and knowing that people are aware of his “justified” crime

[@anishthefish2439]

Did simon ever realize that Knightley didn't do anything wrong and that Gustavia was actually his father and not Knightley's?

[@mineralnoodles]

@@anishthefish2439 well knightley literally killed a man and about the latter part yeah he did edgeworth told him

[@gaalxystar1873]

​@@escopeto7849 Not only that he saved an entire country and saved Courtney and John. Simon knew the body double is going to kill them when Courtney and John doesn't even know he's a fake.

[@Kisarez]

I was especially happy that the end sequences of the game didn't exist of the villain just asking 'Where's your evidence' multiple times, or like in Alba's case, 'is that enough? can I leave now?' There was some serious interaction here and Simon came across as truly sharp and on top of the game, even when he was alone in the room with more than enough capable people around him ready to assist Edgeworth. Simon was very convincing.

[@HyLion]

What I like about Simon's confrontation is the fact that what did him in was the only moment he had to get his own hands dirty. Every other part of his plan was carefully crafted in order to not leave incriminatory evidence behind, the only thing that gets him is the part he didnt plan.

[@shantaeisbae]

@mohamed zayan the body double's murder. Though very well covered up, that was the reason edgeworth had any evidence of his crimes, and so, could be prosecuted in a real court. He will never be prosecuted for any other crime. (Unless he admits to them, out of guilt?)

[@bulbaa2241]

But don't you do the same thing with shiva in the first game where you present the same evidence multiple times in a row to Simone (this kind of ruined him for me)

[@OneManCast]

@@shantaeisbae Heck, he may not even serve any time if he were to have a good lawyer. Gun self-defense laws, particularly when we're supposed to buy it being in America, would get him lenient sentencing.

[@IceBlueLugia]

⁠@@OneManCastHe kidnapped John, drugged Kay, and stole the president’s gun. Those are all felonies in the US. Not to mention, even if it was self-defense, there’s no way someone who killed a foreign leader would be allowed to get away without some kind of sentence

[@francisco2974]

"Hmph. It's about time you went back to being a mere *c l o w n"*

[@user-jd4eb6xl7y]

"A fitting end to you pitiful jester's act"

[@captainblue5096]

The closest we’ll get to “You’re not a clown, you’re the entire circus.”

[@DarkheroNateX]

Makes you wonder, if it weren't for this guys involvement, would Blaise ever have been caught?

[@mrmiffmiff]

Probably not. And that's why he did nothing wrong.

[@deme7272]

+mrmiffmiff Really the only major things that he legally did wrong were the two kidnappings. Him killing the fake president would have been justified self defense (as he was shot at first) and wouldn't have been considered illegal.

[@JakeAndKyra]

Uh, no, he could have easily flied away. Landing a balloon on someone like that is at the end of the day, nothing but murder. Not legally justifiable at all. If it was, do you think Simon would have gone to all that trouble to hide the fact?

[@mrmiffmiff]

JakeAnd Kyra Ah yes, the school of legal thought that says you should always try to run away before you fight back. This isn't Britain, and humans can't easily control their fight/flight instincts. In America, if you're shot at, you can fight back, no holds barred.

[@pengie-gw2lu]

Americans can be stupid like that. Myself included.

[@Ozzieapologist]

The best thing about this reveal is, in my opinion, that we defended this guy in a previous case. We helped this funny, goofy and seemingly harmless man clear his name from a crime he didn’t actually commit...only to find out that he orchestrated everything that happened during the game and that includes (indirectly) the aformentioned crime

[@xanderbuil0073]

Like engarde

[@Ozzieapologist]

@@xanderbuil0073 Well yes, but I think in Simon’s case it’s even worse: we find out that Matt is a villain just in time to expose him, while in Simon’s case we find out long after we cleared his name without knowing he was the mastermind all along.

[@xanderbuil0073]

@@Ozzieapologist igs

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

thats what happens when prosecutor edgeworth plays defense theres a reason why edgeworth is the chess player, and wright is the poker player...

[@stoneslab]

Honestly, if we just didn't stop Sebast- *Eustace* from charging Simon, the rest of the game wouldn't have happened. Edgeworth (probably) wouldn't stick with Ra- Eddie and learn about Gregory's last case, and that means that he wouldn't get in a lot of trouble from the PIC and that means he wouldn't have any reason to be involved with the final case at all. It's weird how that all works

[@jen-dz8bq]

One of the best villains of the series. I couldn't help but feel so bad for him as his story continued... he could've used his "talent" in so many different areas and it hurts that no one was by his side except for - ironically - a serial killer.

[@Jombi-d3g]

He only killed one guy though and in self defense

[@justsomegirlwithamustache9052]

@@Jombi-d3g Still you can’t excuse the fact he kidnapped 2 people.

[@Jombi-d3g]

@@justsomegirlwithamustache9052 true but when you are a mastermind working from shadows, there are some drastic steps you have to take

[@justsomegirlwithamustache9052]

@@Jombi-d3g He had good intentions, but executed them horribly in the worst way possible.

[@corjonbett]

@@justsomegirlwithamustache9052 He had bad intentions all along. He wanted to hurt the people who had hurt him., But he repaid psychological abuse with death, which is not proportionate in any way. The only reason anyone MIGHT feel sorry for him, was that the people he wanted to target were all HORRIBLE people. (Rosie Ringer was collateral damage, he'd honestly hoped she would kill Excelsius!)

[@peppercat1887]

The entire game is a moral dilemma. Had Simon been found guilty in the knightley case, the truth would have been buried. Edgeworth bailing out Simon kept the murders going but also brought out the truth. What is the price to reach the truth?

[@Nitosa]

There is also something that Simon said, that because of him Edgeworth found the crimes of Blaze and Pratisha.

[@masterspark9880]

All the villains got caught or died in the end and no one that I care about died. I don’t see how it would’ve been better if Simon was found guilty that early

[@girosvaldodeskate2214]

@@masterspark9880 jill crane would live, until he discovered debeste secret on her on and died, so he just killed one inocent that would be killed in some uears (well there is rooke but that was all knightley's fault)

[@yumeyumedi]

not only that, he also helped to get the corrupted law come to light by arresting blaise, and helping them so even solve the 12 years old case which was hauting the clan lang, that makes you think, was simon really the bad one?

[@sensennsen]

the price? order

[@feenievonkarma7516]

Ya know, after the incident with the bug phone call, I thought the culprit was Nicole Swift. She reacted so violently to Key shouting at the bug, I thought it was her that planted it... XD

[@thepinkcoin1512]

good point

[@julianfan5794]

and the inside of her sweater WAS red, as we learnt from the 1st case, so i was like GOT EM, and then i was proven wrong

[@Heli-draws]

I tought she was the culprit too,but after that Dogen explained his backstory I knew that it had to be Simon

[@dsjgfxxkhrx4050]

it was debunked as soon as you took her recorder

[@insertgoodname4987]

I thought it was Blaise y'know he says y'know.

[@Sjors_]

I'll be honest, I did *not* see this one coming. This series has been fairly rigid about one thing so far; once a person is confirmed to be good and innocent in one case, they'll be good and innocent in all cases from then on. Not this time. That's partly why I never saw Dual Destinies' twist coming either.

[@Ze33roX]

Matt Engarde? :]

[@Sjors_]

Ze33roX Matt appears in one case only. And the fact that de Killer was covering for him made it obvious he wasn't innocent.

[@raymondshields7764]

Kapteindood A good rule of thumb is that if you are threatened to get a certain a verdict, they are indeed the opposite.

[@mattok101digitaltamer9]

@@raymondshields7764 Hello Ray

[@wellalrightthen3920]

Godot?

[@DarkheroNateX]

This guy jumped up past Damon Gant in my favorite ace attorney villains

[@GeonXP89]

He's my favorite as well, because he's the first one I didn't suspect from the beginning, and when you think about it, what he did wasn't completely wrong. He had bad people kill each other just by misleading them, and the only man he killed was fooling an entire country, if not the whole world. Well, he had Kay falsely accused, and Jill Crane was killed as well, but hey. Nobody's perfect. Second place goes to Manfred von Karma, unless you consider Godot as a villain.

[@gamingsource5343]

@@GeonXP89 to be honest, the guy Rooke was risking his life for was a murderous douchebag. So it was karma that the body double lost his two most capable bodyguards.

[@girosvaldodeskate2214]

@@gamingsource5343 he thought he was risking his life to a great good president, so he didn't deserve to die at all

[@sensennsen]

"Well done, everyone." Send shivers down my spine.

[@gaalxystar1873]

Scary part about that quote he did acutally win.

[@rbxless]

I loved it in this case when Simon said "If you want to take me down, you're willing to take THIS much risk!" *highlights half of the penalty bar* And Edgeworth can BREAK THE FOURTH WALL and measure. EXACTLY THIS MUCH RISK.

[@4r96]

A 10/10 game. I just replayed it and it caught me completely off guard a second time after forgetting who the Mastermind was. Ace Attorney never fails. NOW FUCKING MAKE INVESTIGATIONS 3 OR I'LL MAKE IT MYSELF.

[@majidoujaa5592]

Edgeworth's story was wrapped up nicely ... but if we can somehow get Sebastian Debeste investigations ...

[@Riobjection]

Majid Oujaa Yes, please, Debeste investigations when? :c

[@Officewaffle]

Sadly the team who made aai2 disbanded, so that's probably not going to happen.

[@OPequeNiNo1]

What is kinda sad, is that Simon was truly gifted intellect wise.

[@justreadberserkd1021]

A bad enviroment and soil can ruin even the prettiest flower i guess

[@chaz8230]

Probably the best AA villain ever. Simon Keyes the madlad.

[@doopliss6052]

The fact that this theme is a remix of the IS-7 incident theme proves how great the attention to detail in this game is

[@Estra_Estra]

OH *F U C K*

[@gaalxystar1873]

Holy shit some of us didn't realized it just now. Great catch

[@ijnh9336]

The forst part sounds like it

[@McJizo]

in game hes not as hard and tricky as deadly as other boss (damon gants one hit game over got me) and alba's too long and tiring. but simon keyes involvement and orchestration of almost all the the AA:I2 cases is quite a masterpiece no other ace attorney final boss shown. he's like a chess master who is able to use every moment to his advantage and quickly adjust to setbacks

[@All_Powerful_God_Enel]

His laughing animation is sooo goooood!

[@gamingsource5343]

like father like son. another common point that edgeworth forgot to mention

[@johnathanjjohnsoniii8019]

It's absurd how well it all fit together. Simon's minor relationship to Knightley abruptly tied him to the case, making him the only possible suspect, and then the more you looked into it the more it made perfect sense. What a brilliant reveal.

[@tadeogomez7303]

Impressive how much a man can change with just a hair do-over.

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

and by opening their eyes

[@masterelia3259]

No way anyone someone can "predict" this early on. i jokingly said "haha what if it was simon" and then the dots connected. Such a fun memory.

[@howisthis8849]

literally me but wifh Fulbright, i was like "yo what if its Fulbright" and then when the reveal happened i laughed for 5 minutes straight unlike Fulbright, there were actual hints about Simon being evil before the reveal though

[@rat-kun]

​@@howisthis8849what hints were there that simon was evil?

[@xord6286]

@@howisthis8849Fulbright actually did have hints they're just not obvious on a first playthrough -whenever he clenches his fist you see a mark on his hand, which is the scar Athena gave him -in case 2 Jinxie Tenma screams and calls him a ghost, while this can be seen as a joke, it also not foreshadows his identity as a PHANTOM but also that the real Bobby Fulbright is dead

[@ObsessiveReaderLuv]

okay but this is one of the best character themes in the entire series

[@MisterFael]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH...Just kidding! I thought i really had won at that time.

[@Sjors_]

I personally didn't buy it for a second. We haven't even presented solid proof at that point. :P

[@raymondshields7764]

I'm pretty sure the point of that was to make fun of how the culprit always started screaming after they were defeated.

[@VVayVVard]

That's what happens when you talk to one of the guards outside of the court in Case 5.

[@girosvaldodeskate2214]

Considering the lame breakdown of the tree man i really was thinking bad final breakdowns were a aai mark

[@serv3534]

@@girosvaldodeskate2214 Exactly, dude just shrivels up in defeat,literally

[@onanar965]

I knew it ! The true mastermind is the Balloon !

[@CzalSerafino]

No you ignorant swine it was obviously the bellboy

[@thaggartxsoo]

All lies! It was clearly the proto badger.

[@supersonicfan6406]

Overruled! It was Sawit's hair!

[@yaworskiremixstudio4337]

Overruling overruled! It was the Judge from original series, that is the true mastermind of it all!

[@THUMBASS]

Yaworski Remix Studio OVERRULED! it was The stepladder!

[@Somethin5041]

Me, seeing Simon Keyes for the first time: Ah look at this guy, so sweet and seems like a good character. He's not going to appear in any more cases, is he? Then he turns out to be the final boss.

[@silverflight01]

Now THAT'S a plot twist

[@sikisikiamimis]

That's why you should never google any character until you beat the game

[@lieutenant8968]

@@sikisikiamimis exactly

[@vi5133]

There's just something so bittersweet about the melody contrasting with the classic evil sounding tune in the background. You can just feel the hurt he's gone through and how it all really HAS warped his mind into thinking that what he was doing was his only way to feel happy with himself. Even if he built his life on that misunderstanding, it just made it worse when he found out the truth and kept pushing on anyways. Because he had already crossed the point of no return and living with those regrets is more painful than just pretending you still have it all under control. He may have been a complete asshole by the end, but I honestly couldn't ever bring myself to hate him... he's so pitiable and you can see it

[@gaalxystar1873]

Your right about that. Despite his terrible actions he actually saved an entire Country and manage to get Edgeworth to do all of that dirty work for him to take down the corrupt people

[@voxel9470]

One thing i do think the game argued was that like the ends didn’t justify the means; that thing john marsh said after he was offered to slay dogen

[@johnathanjjohnsoniii8019]

I voiced this entire confrontation aloud for fun and voicing Simon was delightful. It really gave a perfect sense of how he thought and felt.

[@HyLion]

Voicing Simon is so fun. Every time I watch an AAI2 LP I always voice his lines and it's always a great experience

[@smashssf2_ssbc15]

You did that too? Amazing.

[@Greener221]

Still completely WTF over the whole twist.

[@Greener221]

Flaviu Val Except De Killer's presence from the beginning made everything suspicious. Besides, that was an isolated incident.

[@feenievonkarma7516]

Flaviu Val the whole thing reminded me of Matt Engarde! The unassuming person who you defended, his involvement with Shelly De Killer... Kinda weird.

[@SuperScotchify]

Matt Engarde was obvious (but still a kickass villain), and as for the sympathetic defendant thing, that would make sense if this were a Phoenix Wright game, but this is a bit different since there's only really a handful of defendants in the game, so it would be a little weird. All that aside, I still never suspected Simon one bit.

[@maverickhunterstupidiocy7779]

Obligatory “the entire circus” joke here

[@vincentsimbol7251]

He was playing chess without ever moving any of the goddamn pieces. Have you ever seen anyone do that? No. No you haven't.

[@roshipower]

So...did anyone else only come to the final conclusion over who the mastermind was by looking at who was the same age as Knightley?

[@SuperScotchify]

Simon did also say that Knightley was a close friend of his.

[@SparkShiny]

TheFlyingCule For me it was the other way round. I was spoilt that Simon was the mastermind, but when I saw that they were the same age, I figured out that the two missing sons from the IS-7 incident were Simon and Knightley.

[@feenievonkarma7516]

Kind of... I saw *one* other comment that only said about 'three wise monkeys spoiler lol', prolly no more content than that, and it was enough for me to think of who it could have been. :/ oh well, I couldn't have imagined it'd end up so badass XD

[@farhaanraja7994]

I only figured it out when I realised how much emphasis they put on the fact that Dover and Gustavia's children were never found, so I knew one was going to be important. Knightley and Keyes had been friends since they were little, were the same age and one was dead sooo

[@SalvageET]

I checked the people with age gap of 20-25 since Dogen's acolyte was a kid 12 years ago. So after eliminating other suspects, I was left with Nicole and Simon. Thinking Nicole has been watching Edgeworth since case 1, I thought she was the mastermind but after seeing that title of this song was "Man who masterminds the game", I went with Simon lol

[@reynet5543]

Phoenix: "Oh my God, Edgeworth, did this stupid circus give you PTSD too?

[@jazzymcdurf2019]

Gotta say, this music really captures the evil clown theme well.

[@KBird204]

like father, like son: both badass antagonists

[@jeepercreepers9]

I was unfortunately spoiled on who the mastermind was, but I could at least get the satisfaction of seeing how each case's unresolved plot points were tied together through him. The "truth" De Killer managed to figure out in case 1, the possibility of a connection between Knightly and Dogen in case 2, the missing kids in case 3, and the motives and Kay's kidnapping in case 4, all tied together by a single person that was presented as mearly a one off case 2 character

[@tobysceptiman7058]

Same, I got spoiled and already knew Simeon, what I didn’t know was that he was the final boss of the game, I realized when he went scot-free on case 2

[@Arthalmia]

I figured out that the mastermind was likely to be him thanks to the missing kids open plot in case 3. There was no other pair of characters whose ages could fit the description. Yet I kept doubting my own intuition for the following 2 cases because holy crap that twist was so good

[@invaderyellow1906]

me: "wait there's someone REALLY behind everything? wonder who." game: "remember Simon Keyes?"

[@paddythelegend1671]

There's a detail before Simon reveals himself where there's a monkey on his head and he moves his arms around while the monkey pulls on his hair, like Ratatoullie. Knowing AA I was fully expecting the monkey to have been behind it all using Simon as a puppet

[@chestnut1563]

I love how in the beginning, it sounds evil, rogue and intimidating. But the middle part screams "Look what you made me do" or "You forced me to do this!"

[@ajisaputra-nii6279]

It is what we called trauma

[@Edgypoo]

a somehow laytonesque "final boss battle theme"

[@Nehfarius]

Simon may be going up against bad guys, and he DID help bring some seriously nasty people down...but that doesn't mean he's not a bad guy himself.

[@majidoujaa5592]

He's a victim himself. But his actions lead to Jill Crane's murder abd the kidnapping of both Kay and John, and of course pinning his own crime on John and smuggling the weapon that killed Knightley.

[@zezus001]

i mean, he was a "victim" in all of this as well, but he did also instigate several murders, commit murder himself, and kidnap two teenagers in his form of "revenge".

[@shitpostmania6061]

Kinda like godot

[@OneManCast]

So did Winston Churchill. And FDR. And every soldier in WW2. I think you may want to go back to the drawing board on the morality scale assessment my guy. Good people use evil tactics to take down the wicked. For it is only force that the wicked acknowledge. The physical state of this world would be much different if grand speeches and tautologies were enough to convince evil.

[@Khazorin]

​@@OneManCast I don't think Churchill belongs in the list of 'good people'

[@seashroom6678]

easily the best villain in all of ace attorney

[@UnevenerGgc2]

Soon, a whole new generation of Ace Attorney players, both veteran and new will be able to hear this theme! Can’t wait for the localization

[@toxinrazor6489]

The reveal that Furio Tigre was the mastermind all along was such a twist

[@TheDiego908]

The two best cases in the series involve both Global Studios and Shelly de Killer Also, whatever happened with edgy-poo's number one fan?

[@TheDiego908]

Jordan Carothers Her age was never stated. For all we know, she may be 6.

[@Halfcupofcoffee]

+TheDiego908 We know she's at least over 20, if you press one of her statements in Farewell My Turnabout she said she stopped counting afrer she turned 20 XD

[@xord6286]

she's the true mastermind

[@ananini_ringleadernico]

@@beautifuldayxo Well, seeing as she was seen in Apollo Justice (which happens after Investigations 2);in one of the backgrounds (not 100% confirmed it's her, but apearance and maner of speech when you examin her are really similar), we can at least assume she was still arround

[@raid9913]

@@ananini_ringleadernico she was seen in AJ?When?

[@danielparish2000]

i think the real hero in this game is not Miles Edgeworth, but actually Detective Gumshoe

[@daydream5120]

You got that right, pal

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

"in this game"

[@DiegoHernandez-sb3fc]

ace detective dick gumshoe when ?

[@9k49]

Best culprit in the series. And the ‘best’ bit is that in his plan, we (Edgeworth / the player) are his biggest pawn. We’re the one that bought Knightley, Roland and Blaise to their doom

[@yumeyumedi]

i could write an essay about him but none of that could describe how much i loved this character and how sad he didn't come back again, like this whole game was so perfectly planned and made then for just to be dropped and never came back

[@shitpostmania6061]

Do write an essay.

[@yumeyumedi]

@@shitpostmania6061 i did write one but now i forgot and i kinda lost it 😭 i still remember vaguely when i started to ramble about him in whatsapp to my friends

[@shitpostmania6061]

@@yumeyumedi lol it's alright, would love to read an essay bout him tho.

[@mafuuya02]

Simon became my favorite character after he was revealed to be the mastermind... and a certain other character from an other ace attorney game was revealed to be the mastermind who i never expected it to be... and i played both of these games one after another, this series is truly testing my mental stability xD

[@whiskerypants1576]

Was it damon gant ancestor

[@mafuuya02]

@@whiskerypants1576 ... what? there was never any relation to SL-9 (i just made the 666th comment)

[@apollosdread]

-was the other one the phantom?

[@mafuuya02]

@@whiskerypants1576 oh my god were you talking about lord stronghart?

[@mafuuya02]

@@apollosdread yes!!

[@softtacos1]

You can hear the traditional silly clown music behind the darker motif as they compete to be the dominant melody. It's really very jarring, but fits Simon so well! A man that supposedly did good for the world using evil methods. Is this man evil or good? Honestly he's my favorite AA villain so far. Just an "ordinary" citizen with the persistence, keen, and luck to tie everyone who wronged him together into an incident, weaving an intricate case of deceit, murder, and crime. He holds power over Edgeworth, not because of some institutionally assigned power, but because the law itself was on his side. Edgeworth was used to being able to find the truth behind a crime and using it to convict the right criminals, but this time, the truth means nothing because the law itself says that nothing Simon did in particular was illegal. Hinting at a betrayal or deceit behind the scenes and baiting the right people to kill each other technically means that Simon never did get blood on his hands. Simon admitting to everything and Edgeworth not being able to do anything regardless of how much manipulation Simon admitted to was truly a "holy fuck are we really done for?" moment. In the end, did Simon really lose to Edgeworth? Since the president's body double fired at the balloon first, that charge could be, at its severest, a manslaughter. His two kidnappings hold relatively little punishment. He gets to be reunited with his mentor and father figure, Sirhan Dogen, in prison. In the end, Simon was truly the only player in the chess game. It was a perfect crime, truly, and this theme matches Simon perfectly.

[@OneManCast]

My assessment is Chaotic Neutral. His heart has a purity to it, but neither pure good nor pure evil. A madman's moral scale is intentionally dishonest. Usually because their madness distorts their understanding of good, evil, moral and immoral. His means on the other hand, are purely calculating on a level of "ends justifying the means" which is also neither good nor evil. Sure, used more often by sociopaths, particularly in pop culture, but also by leaders and politicians in times of war. Look at Winston Churchill. Did a lot of "ends justifying the means" but also simultaneously taking out two power hungry dictators. So Chaotic Neutral. Chaotic by method, neutral by insanity.

[@adumb3277]

People seem to be mentioning how he was easy to defeat in the end and I kind of just think that makes sense with his character. He’s kind like the Wizard of Oz where he ultimately doesn’t have any power himself so he delegates more influential and scary opponents to do his dirty work. That’s the only way his plan can even work.

[@patrickserrats6919]

So we coould say he is like a king..... *In chess*

[@Wampao]

God damnit we got chessed

[@Wampao]

@@yumeyumedi In other words, he mastered the art of mental chess

[@yumeyumedi]

@@Wampao exactly

[@No0neat]

GYA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA TAKE A GOOD LOOK EVERYBODY! UNABLE TO FIND A OPPONENT WORTHY OF MY GENIUS I WAS FORCED TO CREATE ONE BY MYSELF! NOW HERE I STAND, THE TRAGIC CLOW! edgeworth: Mr.Keyes.. you quoted luke atmey. Simon: shut up!

[@Halfcupofcoffee]

Best comment 2k16 10/10 must pineapple

[@mohammedani5142]

I still don't understand why knitley and luke atmey have the same hair style

[@thedarthvaderwhohasntbeenn4596]

@@mohammedani5142 same, the First time i saw Knightley i thought he had something to do with Atmey

[@mohammedani5142]

@@thedarthvaderwhohasntbeenn4596 it's shame that there's no connection between the two and I hope atmey will showed up because how awesome he was

[@gabrote42]

PFFFFFFFFFFF... that was really good

[@CoolDude-gn3we]

Each time I listen to this music, I see the mastermind’s evil grin...

[@Kickiusz]

I see acrobatic squirrels and a cat on a chipmunk on a pig serving as a handrest. Damn, AAI 2 had some creative character designs.

[@veryamusic]

I was kinda spoiled of the twist before reaching it, yet it was still so shocking to me

[@MaxMarriner]

I've always thought of Edgeworth as the Batman to Phoenix's Superman. I'm glad the developers also thought that way and made Edgeworth's greatest enemy an evil clown.

[@anone.mousse674]

Does that make Kay his Barbara Gordon?

[@MaxMarriner]

@@anone.mousse674 Yup, alongside his sidekick Dick Grayshoe

[@AlguienCualquieraDelMundo]

And Sebastian/Eustace is the adopted Robin

[@toumabyakuya]

@@MaxMarriner Wait, does that mean that poor Kay will be paralyzed down the line?

[@chanchunphang4781]

@@toumabyakuya She almost was, so... (a fall that could render someone completely amnesiac likely could've paralyzed her)

[@julien5189]

This is the coolest title ever to an ost

[@yoshimario40]

Did anyone get Phantom flashbacks (flashforwards?) when the Mastermind imitated Edgeworth's voice?

[@actiongamemaster5218]

Pikatostes salados The mastermind was using a bug to record Edgeworth's voice. He then used the correct voice lines for the correct time.

[@Failentin]

+ActionGameMaster52 No, while Miles' voice can be heard, Simon is doing his talking animation.

[@malucart]

That's Yamazaki copying himself yet again.

[@fatuusdottore]

I saw a lot of AAI2 in Dual Destinies, tbh. From the fake “Genius” Hugh O’Connor who wore Sebastian’s jacket (did Sebastian also go to Themis? Explains a lot lol) and was essentially bought the grades (just like Blaise manufactured Sebastian’s “The Best” nonsense), to the wrongful framing (of Kay in AAI2, and Athena in DD, they even share some of the same poses and have the traumatised look/memory loss) and of course the similarities between Fulbright and Keyes, who were each able to puppeteer both capable Prosecutors and entire systems. (Even the PIC thing with Blaise being at the top was reminiscent of the Dark Age of the Law, and of course the forged evidence though in AAI2’s case it was Simon who forged it. Blaise also reminded me a bit of Professor Means, though a decidedly more extreme version, since he wasn’t just willing to do everything it took to win, but also disappear people altogether.) Oh and I guess Edgeworth has also been a jailed prosecutor lmao, albeit briefly, when he went up against the PIC to protect Kay. The man was willing to risk it all in a figurative sense for Kay, and Simon Blackquill in a literal sense for Athena.

[@pack-gc9gt]

Hemlock.

[@marysmile1603]

Words cannot express how much I love Simon as a character. I really want to see him make a cameo in AA7, or at least be mentioned. Maybe a case that takes place in prison, where we get to see what he and Dogen have been getting up to over the last 9-10 years. Or maybe Simon is already out of prison by that point. Besides the kidnappings and the murder of the body double (which was in self-defense), they really can't have prosecuted him on anything else. I like to imagine him running into Phoenix and Athena (assuming Apollo is still in Kurain) and him casually mentioning that he was "an old client" of Edgeworth's. Later, Phoenix brings him up and Miles nearly has a heart-attack because his boyfriend met the literal Joker.

[@girosvaldodeskate2214]

Sadly capcom has a stupid no spoiler politic, which don't make sense if you are going to make a game with character development that has to be played in order to be trully great, the only exeption is the guy you know if evil when you open the first game

[@kittypeanut4102]

@@girosvaldodeskate2214 yeah :(

[@Officewaffle]

It's not outside the realms of possibility that Capcom retires the no spoiler rule but this specific scene won't happen unless aai2 gets localised. And I'm not exactly optimistic about that.

[@Bucketeer924]

@@girosvaldodeskate2214 this isn’t entirely true, the great ace attorney games don’t have this at all. great ace attorney 2 constantly references spoilers from great ace attorney 1, though this could be because they’re way more of one continuous narrative than any other set of games in the series

[@girosvaldodeskate2214]

@@Bucketeer924 maybe they do retire this stupid no spoiler of the previous game in our continuous story with character development in the future, but considering that great ace attorney 1 and 2 are much more conected, its not guaranted sadly

[@GPhoen1x]

My favorite villain in all ace attorney games. You can sympathize with him after all the hell he's been through. I can't wait to replay the game now that it's finally getting an official release outside of Japan.

[@Maneru5978]

I kind of wished Maximillion Galactica had seen through a bit of Simon's fake persona and grown suspicious of him, joining the guys at the last part of the case. He had already been cornered by another shady person in the circus during the second game. Plus, he could use some of his magic tricks to peer into some of the stuff Simon was doing. It would have been badass for him. His motives could be worry about Regina and Acro's previous murder attempt. He would have grown smarter at detecting strange things.

[@DarkheroNateX]

They can actually put that clown line in the game now and i dont think I'll be ready.

[@sotasarushiro4420]

This theme fits me well for the villainous mastermind i am!

[@ZK16987]

Are you alive?

[@shitpostmania6061]

@@ZK16987 well what do you think?

[@ZK16987]

@@shitpostmania6061 Well they haven't changed their pfp in 10 years so I assume no. Or they just moved to a new account.

[@shitpostmania6061]

@@ZK16987 or they dont wanna reply

[@ZK16987]

@@shitpostmania6061 Perhaps, but they still have the same pfp for 10 years.

[@Violo148]

spoiler alert: i kinda figured out that simon was the mastermind since the starting of chapter 5, when edgeworth still kept the is-7 case file as evidence, since i had figured out that both horace and simon were the missing children earlier then. but how evil simon looked like was totally unexpected. thumbs up for the final boss!

[@radiation8000]

God i loved Simon Keyes, he's such a great villian, hes so underrated

[@dollypartonfan]

Pre-ordered the game (despite having already played it) just to stare at this mf in HD.

[@ZeromusHarvey]

Just finished the game today. Simon keys. The clever translators hid two name puns behind one. You'd think his pun is the whole "siMON KEYs" because of the animals. But, well the one in charge is practically playing SIMON says with his pawns. He holds the KEYS the whole case.

[@pengie-gw2lu]

MIND = BLOWN

[@toprak3479]

Translators doing better name puns than developers. What a strange time we live in.

[@squish200]

simon says

[@bluetheblue4179]

wOAH

[@gamingsource5343]

@@whitegosht his facade is quite shy so it fits

[@blackknightjack3850]

Holy shit. I just realized the accordion in this. I just realized the accordion and the joke all the way back in The Imprisoned Turnabout about how Simon was more of an organ grinder than an animal tamer.

[@DreadedGhoul575]

The ultimate "You've been clowned/fooled." Theme.

[@chloebuggs]

the moment this music plays and simon had his matt engarde moment still gives me chills, the final case in this game is definitely up there as one of my favorites in the series

[@JosephSciola]

I just beat this game for the first time a few days ago. When Edgeworth said he knew who it was, I was confused, and then, seeing their profile, it clicked, and I could not believe it.

[@kaphel]

This is what i feel when i hack my save file of a video game.

[@CuriousGuy_]

I actually feel so sorry for Simon, to think that he lost his father because his best friend tied him up in their Car because of his father's orders... And he loved Gustavia too...

[@nightdog4183]

Him being the mastermind, that was the plot twist i didn't expect ngl.

[@Desilent49]

YOU MIGHT KNOW EVERYTHING I'M GOING TO DO BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP YOU SINCE I KNOW EVERYTHING YOU'RE GOING TO DO STRANGE ISN'T IT!? That's how I feel about the end of the game and the final "witness".

[@Valetravelgames]

Sonic reference?

[@Desilent49]

@@Valetravelgames always

[@nathanbreadboi9223]

THIS SONG SLAPS SO HARD! WHY DOES ACE ATTORNEY MUSIC ALWAYS SOUND SO GOOD!

[@zekromfury]

The shift in both tone and time signature from the beginning when it's 4/4 to the next part when it's 3/4... magnificent

[@silverflight01]

If you think a bit about Simon, his plan technically succeeded. He was able to get revenge on the perpetrators of the SS-5 AND Knightley. The only thing that prevented total succession was covering his tracks entirely, since Swift and Hart were able to prove his involvement in Double Huang's death, AND DeKiller figured out he purposefully got the wrong info and broke contract.

[@gaalxystar1873]

He also saved a country and saved Courtney and Josh. The best part is that he knows it more than anyone else

[@dimamatat5548]

A reminder that Simon Keyes is the only Ace Attorney villain who WON. The three people who ruined his life (Roland, Blaise, and the fake president) are either dead or imprisoned. Simon went to prison with a smile on his face.

[@shlokwaghela9560]

Uh.. Shelly De Killer anyone?

[@dimamatat5548]

@@shlokwaghela9560 Shelley has no long-term goal that we know of. Not to mention both times he tried to kill those who double-crossed him (Simon and Engarde), he failed.

[@AlguienCualquieraDelMundo]

He is not even a villain, is the text book definition of an antihero

[@tastethepainbow]

​@@AlguienCualquieraDelMundo I honestly disagree. Kidnapping children and sacrificing innocent people to bait someone into bringing down your enemy is pretty reprehensible, no matter what your excuse or past is. It just that it so happens that the group he's bringing down is much worse than he is, so he comes off as a lesser evil. He's less sympathetic and more pitiable.

[@catalyst539]

@@tastethepainbow *More sympathetic Sure he’s no Graydon (most sympathetic villain in this franchise) but still.