Vanilla WoW 12 Years Later, WHY?! (Legacy, Nostalrius & Pristine) - [WoW Classic Part 1]

[@hibernian87]

"To this day my interest in World of Warcraft still remains strong but my interest to play the current version is utterly absent". I think you just described the entirety of the old player base.

[@Techt]

Vanilla was hard, slow and engaging. The world was alive and full of people. The quests forced you to wander the world and learn the lore. LfG started the WoW decay.

[@RoninDays]

Legacy servers are for casual shitters that are too pussy for Everquest or UO that want to seem "core", lmao. Wow was easy mode from day 1.

[@Logica1ity]

True, WoW was known as the lightweight MMO back in the day and largely mocked by those who stayed on the more hardcore games such as UO, EQ etc. However compared to what is currently on the market (and how the market has looked for the past few years) Vanilla WoW is certainly a hardcore experience - if only by virtue of having to grind so much. End of the day the game captured millions of people's imaginations and it was all in all a fantastic game so take your outdated MMO elitism and f off pls :)

[@RoninDays]

Logica1ity I'd be mad if I was a casual shitter too ;)

[@ponderoustomes9005]

+nakamine1713 Nobody cares about the games we love, especially the ones you mentioned..especially those...

[@jonnysongs]

Get a life noob. Vanilla and BC were the perfect mix between enough hardness to make rewards seem worth it, but not so much pointless hardness that you waste your life playing it.

[@Ivvyfay]

To add on to the social aspects of Vanilla, was the fact that you had to maintain a reputation if you wanted to get anywhere in the game. You couldn't just click a button and get thrown into a dungeon with a bunch of random people that you never have to interact with again. Since people had to spend hours putting a group together, then travel to the dungeon, and finally had to put actual effort into beating the dungeon, people were less likely to act like asshole and get themselves blacklisted from participating in those groups in the future. "Hey guys, I got a mage that wants to come." "What's his name?" "Sinnfull" " Don't invite that guy, he's an asshole, a ninja looter, and a scrub." "Alrighty then."

[@neglesaks]

Yep, that was truly a factor in Vanilla+BC. By Wrath before the DF, it was slowly falling apart because of the large inflow of people meant that keeping tabs on player reps was arduous on the minds and demanding on social touch of guildies, plus the appeal to casuals creeping into the game was complicit in this.

[@Ivvyfay]

neglesaks on the occasions that pugging one or two spots became necessary in Wrath, our raid leads had add-ons that kept track of blacklisted folks.

[@neglesaks]

Heather Yeager Interesting. Never heard of them tho. People keps tabs on the shitlisted peeps in the heads.

[@nispelsm]

Yes, I remember the days when your rep mattered. I'd put myself up as LFG, and within minutes would have someone asking me to join their group. Since my main was a DPS, getting invites that fast was a joy. Tanks and healers could get invites easily if they were halfway decent. but, for a DPS, you really had to earn it by knowing your class's capabilities, and by being a good teammate. I loved it when people I'd never grouped with before would invite me out of the blue, and tell me it was because they'd heard good things about me. Then Wrath came, and suddenly player skill and teamwork no longer mattered. Once dungeon teams were randomly picked by the system, all that mattered was who could steal the most loot during the dungeon. Oh, and your character was judged solely on the gear you had, not how good your were at your class. In Wrath, I got my tank alt character to max level, and had gathered the best gear you could get without doing heroic dungeons. I went into my first heroic as fully-prepared as the game allowed, and was promptly booted before the first pull because I only had blue gear and BoE epics. Every expansion after that, the player experience only got worse...

[@RaziyatheRavager]

Great video! I'll throw in my two copper to this discussion. I started on Nostalrius because I never experienced Vanilla. I began early WotLK, but I was always intrigued by BC content in particular, and while Vanilla content was interesting, I only saw scraps of it when I got Benediction on a level 80 priest, or did the AQ chain on a level 80 rogue, so I didn't quite understand the difficulty of the game. I remember leveling up back when I started, and Vanilla felt kind of aimless, old, unpolished. BC felt a lot better when I went through the portal for the first time, and twinked some characters at 70 and formed a 70 twink guild. Fast-forward to WoD. Tried to enjoy it, but my guild relocated to a new server and I didn't want to follow along, and many of my friends had quit. Tried to make some new ones, but people in general seemed really anti-social, so I decided I would quit. I'd give Nostalrius a try. I had already done everything on retail, after all: High-tier raiding and PvP, lots of RP, AH playing, pet battles, twinking, etc etc. I went into Nostalrius with mixed feelings. It was unfortunate that I had to go to a private server to play this version of the game, but Blizzard simply didn't offer it, and I figured it wouldn't hurt 'em if I just... took a look around. I heard a lot of things about Vanilla being unpolished, but Vanilla being awesome. I remember leveling up through Vanilla content and feeling like it did when I started. But I had never seen it the way it originally was, so I tried to go into it with both eyes open and no expectations. I loved every second of it. As you explained, the leveling process was extremely social, and I felt a true faction rivalry between the Alliance and the Horde because we ran into each-other all the time. I loved to hate those red team bastards. I don't care that it took a long time to level up; I was focused on the adventure, and that was great. Got my mount at 40 by AHing every cloth and green I found along the way, and grinding a *little* bit for the last ten gold. Finally reached 60, got into a raiding guild, became class leader for hunters. Hunted down demons all over the world for Rhok'delar. I was there to take down Ragnaros, slay Nefarian, and I lead a 20-man Onyxia that was successful on the first try, albeit with like five people left. We had one godly holy priest who got many innervates before our druids all went down and was loaded with mana potions. Saw old Alterac Valley and took part in an almost day-long game. Wrecked Hordies with engineering gadgets, sniped them from the top of Zul'gurub's statues with a couple of other hunter friends, summoned infernals and doomguards in Undercity and watched them slaughter lowbies passing through, and spent lots of time just chilling in Westfall with a friend and Stitches. And killing lowbies with Stitches. Never a dull moment, in other words. Always something to do, if I chose to do it. Was PvP bullshit? Maybe, but it was bullshit for everyone. A geared shadow priest could nearly one-shot me with a single SW:P but a rogue would never catch me, and a warrior could practically one-shot a shadow priest but a rogue would be able to take out a warlock before stuns even broke. That was fun. PvE? Everyone had their niche role, from ret paladins tanking whelps in the BWL suppression room to resto druids, though lackluster next to a holy priest, being capable of resurrecting dead folks or putting dragonkin to sleep. I even met a geared freaking Boomkin. A laughable raiding asset to bring under most circumstances. How the hell does that happen? I don't know, but he was living the dream. Maybe their guild's mages really wanted more spell crit... and man, kiting was fun as a hunter. When the shutdown was announced, I was really disappointed, but there was more than that. My guild and I were generally happy that we got to down Nefarian and all, and we had all made it to 60... most of us had gotten to do something we really wanted to do, like one of our mages made it to rank 10 in PvP, I got Rhok'delar under the real, original Vanilla circumstances at level 60, one of our warriors got Teebu's sword which looks like a fiery lightsaber (and was worth a crapton of gold as a BoE epic), a friend of mine got her epic mount... but what of the others? One of our guildies had only just made it to 60 when the shutdown was announced, and was looking forward to raiding. I talked to some other people who were so close to 60, yet never made it, and even some really low-levels, like 10-20 who had plans on how they were going to level up and what guilds they were aspired to join. A lot of love went around in the final days of Nostalrius... old enemies or rivals met the end together, as friends. Thousands of people crowded around Ironforge and Orgrimmar and cried out together, a mix of many emotions. Anger at or disappointment with Blizzard, adoration for the Nostalrius team for everything they did for us... I spoke with some GMs, some of whom had been keeping an eye on my threads on the Nost forums. My threads! They even let me see GM island! I was flattered. Overjoyed beyond words to have been a part of this experience. No nostalgia, no delusion about it; Nostalrius boasted a huge international community that fostered real relationships in a highly social, competitive environment, all with gameplay with great replay value, well-defined class identities and relatively few crashes and little lag, considering the population. Personally, I would be okay with not going back, after everything I've done... but I *wish* others got to be a part of this experience before the end. I love this game, and Nostalrius took that love to new heights. I feel like I understand the roots of this game more than ever, and I never could have imagined I was missing out on so much. I have no doubts that *some* people wouldn't like Vanilla, but for me, and many others... it was hugely enjoyable. Assuming Blizzard fixes the technical issues I heard happened in the real Vanilla - server crashes very often, huge lag in certain places, etc. - it could be for others as well. I was Raziya, level 60 night elf hunter. Thanks for reading.

[@criztu]

that's Communism you're describing.

[@RaziyatheRavager]

wut?

[@RaziyatheRavager]

***** *gives a brutal hug with explosions and hellspawn and stuff like that*

[@Deak32]

A long read but worth it. Really good description of a vanilla experience. Sounded just like you described the original. It was an awesome game. The best really.

[@RaziyatheRavager]

Deak32 Considering that I went in distrustful of private servers, with mixed expectations, and no friends joining me for the try, I struck fuckin' gold with Nostalrius. Thanks for reading, mate.

[@trens]

Wow is a massively multiplayer online singleplayer game.

[@bobbykotick1163]

MSO

[@itchydez]

Ted Mills - Truth, dude. Played Legion not long back for a month and it was...strange. No one spoke or interacted.

[@richard2mitchell]

What are you talking about you have all the elite wanted quest that you have to group fo....oh nm that removed them

[@GravitySpec]

Great job with this video! You really touched on many of the reasons my friends and I frequently talked about when this subject comes up. It's that social engagement and shared drudgery that we all felt was such a rewarding experience. Thanks for making this.

[@wadeking4054]

I play on Kronos. I'm loving it. I get annoyed at the little things, like 1 graveyard per zone, expensive but required class training, getting into a dungeon (mobs in front of entrance) being harder than the actual dungeon, waiting for quest items to respawn for 5 minutes, a few quests give bad directions, imbalanced classes etc. But I realize the good side to these things (except for the imbalanced classes and poor quest text). However, the overall feel of the game is better. I have 8 people on my level 17's friends list. I feel like I'm getting slightly better every level with new spell ranks and talents. I'm actually exploring to look for chests and rares to get gear because leveling is oddly paced and hard. I actually use my professions while leveling for gear. I'm constantly partying up because of the harder quests. People don't ignore you when you ask a question in chat. People are willing to help with quests they already finished because farming is still a decent source of xp and it gives them a future ally or friend in the world. I actually read quest text now. WoW was an MMORPG back then. Now it is a co-op 3rd person action fantasy game (which can still be some at times).

[@mekabar77]

Welcome back and great analysis! Looking forward to more content from you.

[@iamsmilingjack]

Ive watched many video's about the subject. Yours is the best and most thought through video on the matter. Well done, Haas. Finally a person that understands, that Nostalgia was a small part of the private server experience.

[@cythixx]

People always think it's nostalgia, it's like someone says something, and everyone believes it. I've watched Ace ventura 1&2, old star wars episodes 4,5,6 so many times, I mean if it was just nostalgia, why would I keep watching it over and over again. If you could say a small part of it is nostalgia, it would be 1-2%. I mean i've played WoW for 11 years now, and I played on nostalrius for over a year, 14 months to be exact, if it was just nostalgia, I doubt I'd play for over a year, and have 2 level 60 characters, epic mounts, MC and BWL geared character, working on raid gear on my alt etc. Farmed over 5k gold. We need more people like HaasGaming, to tell everyone it's not nostalgia. If WoW would stop developemnt now, and in lets say, 15 years people would look back and think "Damn I wanna play Cataclysm, Mists of Pandara, Warlords of Draenor, Legion." THAT would be nostalgia. This is different, WoW from Vanilla till end of WotLK was the last time an MMO game existed. Now MMO is an ancient history, no MMO games exist out there. WoW WoD/Legion is an single player FaceBook game you play via launcher. You can't even call it WoW 2.0, because that would mean WoW wouls still be an MMORPG, which it is not currently, it's a failure. My dog could come up with better ideas for WoW than Blizzard. Man I don't know why I post long comments sometimes. :P

[@ChichiNaka]

Great video but to anyone turned off of private servers by this just understand hes mostly talking about the first few months of release, playing in the middle of 2005 as a 12 year old playing her first MMO I had no issues making gold for my mount, spells/gear upgrades at appropriate times. All this is magnified now with private servers, the experience is much better in the exact same game now, the addon Vanilla Guide will keep you in the right zones on the right quests, there's still a lot of slow traveling the world and using CC if you pull more mobs than you can handle but I've spent the last 2 years of WoD on a private server with my boyfriend and our three friends and it's still the most fun play experience I've had with my group of friends ever. Scholomance and Stratholme will never get old for me, even if I'm not into the dull Vanilla raids.

[@haasgaming]

Addons, something I didn't touch upon, are definitely a big increase in making the entire experience far, far more enjoyable and if Blizzard does decide to go with Legacy servers they'll help a ton in making it better no doubt. (Personally I really can't go through old content without at least the quest addons, for instance)

[@robs9980]

I don't remember it being any faster mid 2005. But I was leveling as a priest, so what do I know.

[@ChichiNaka]

Rob S All I know is it took me 16 days played to get my first ever level 60, 9 days to get my second 60 and only 5 days played to get my first sixty on both Kronos and Nostalrius

[@robs9980]

Chiyori Nakanishi Hmmm, that actually doesn't sound too far off. Did you PVP a bunch too? I spent a lot of times in BGs and respeccing when I was leveling (as I got bored as hell playing holy priest ALL the time).

[@ChichiNaka]

Rob S enough time to get the AB speed boost boots at 28/38/48 and enough time to get 30 of each pvp badge to get the black war tiger

[@fwenny]

welcome back sir. miss your content.

[@charlsssoooo]

i havent played wow since BC, and that part about not needing cc for instances is baffling to me, when I played you lived and died by your groups ability to cc the mobs of enemies in an instance

[@haasgaming]

For sure, I have a ton of fond memories of the struggle instances like Shattered Halls brought in BC. Sapping/polymorphing/banishing the right target, possibly even vanishing to quick shot if things got out of hand, properly focusing on the right target, kiting certain adds, evasion tanking, interrupting dangerous spells etc. were all commonplace.

[@sanderhansen7036]

To best honest that was mostly because people were bad. We played on Nostalrius and Instances were MUCH easier than they used to be, simply because people understood the game now. We didn't at all need to use cc or advanced tactics through most of the dungeons... We never made it to the end-game dungeons though, I'm sure it would have become necessary by then.

[@charlsssoooo]

Sander Hansen Well you are right, on the entry level dungeons you really don't need cc or advanced tactics. They are there to teach you the game. I would say it was after UBRS and DM that the training wheels came off and you needed to have an idea of what you where doing. If you were clearing anything after those without advanced tactics then I am impressed.

[@sanderhansen7036]

Cryptico I did not get to that point, I only got to around level 40, I think 38 or something like that.. I'm just saying, the instances are a lot easier than they were back then... Because back then people were very new to the genrer ^^

[@merccc1]

Not really a grind. If you run out of quests in one zone, you travel to another. That is GREAT, that promote traveling and viewing the terrain and it feels more like a adventure than just following a line of quests up to 60... Also promoted communication and encounters with others. Just soo much awesome. Slower was better really. I remember soo many encounter that were soo much fun. Running into enemy faction, getting small skirmishes going, calling for back up, running into friends that were leveling in the same area or grinding for something special there, and sooooooooo much more. These things are possible to some extent now, but not near as more, or as full. Flying mounts alone killed most of this.

[@alphonsbretagne8468]

I remember the whole guild showed up to help a member-in-spe, which was a rl friend of one of our members, just for questing. He tried an elite quest with random groups several times and they failed. Than he asked for help his friend and impulsively we all went there. He was so excited! Such things are, what I missed most later on before I finally quit WoW.

[@steve69man420ayylmao]

TricksyKitsune i dont want to level for about 5 months (due to limited time) just to start the end game, grind that for a few months. modern wow is more friendly to people like myself with not alot of time. i can just play 1 lfr raid a day and get geared. while in vanilla i have to find a group for a dungeon, travel there, do it and that alone would be so timeconsuming

[@Phyrexious]

(Also played hardcore vanilla and burning crusade back in the days. I recently re-made a lvl 20 character to get a Hearthstone reward.) The dungeon finder is such a double edged blade. Yes the old system was pretty crappy, people spamming "LFG!!!1" in the main chat. Sometimes it took you *hours* to find a good group before you even started. I can understand when you only have 2 or so hours to play, you don't want to waste that doing nothing. But it's exactly that difficulty that made a successful run all the more interesting. Right now, on the few new dungeon runs I went, no one in the group even bothered to say hi. No one cared except for the xp and rewards. My sample size is small but it was so sad to see. The idea to instantly teleport to the other side of the world and fight with people you've never met... Ugh. :x It completely removed the social aspect. Something you didn't mention in the video, what I personally hated as well, was the joining of multiple server populations. In the WoW that I grew up with you picked a server and that was the group of people you had to deal with. Just like in smaller towns you'll start to know people more personally. With the combined populations for battlegrounds, my own world server felt cheap and less special. I understand why they would do it, it makes sense, but these small changes do add up. And lastly, flying mounts. Yuck. It's one of those things: they sound *amazing* for you yourself. But if everyone has it, it loses that appeal and does more harm than good. World PvP became small, empty and meaningless. No more fear from the other faction. Overall I think flying mounts were the biggest offender for me personally.

[@haasgaming]

Ha, in regards to flying mounts... I remember when they were announced and the general excitement people had. As someone who predominantly loved wPvP in vanilla, I was far more skeptical myself even back then. Now, you didn't get a flying mount until the very, very end of the BC content so it didn't feel as much of an issue. Blizzard's stance on limiting flying in WoD, for instance, is something I was really happy with and I hope they continue.

[@Phyrexious]

Aye, the world PvP was quite exciting in vanilla! Chasing down alliance scum on an epic 100% horse while most were still mucking about with a 60% inbred. Priceless. (and bonus points for making a bubbleboy go back to mummy. j/k ;) I'm curious, how did they limit it the flying in WoD? And how was that received? I guess it means they at least saw a problem with flying mounts as well. Another thing to do back in the days was raiding major cities as rogues. Big group of friends, sneaking in, causing chaos... So much fun! One of those activities that was awesome to do, but also a great example that needed fixing. Where to draw the line of this handholding... How much suffering of others is worth the enjoyment of some? :) It's not an easy problem. The stealth guards added in however were an easy fix. I guess at some point when you streamline everything too much and cater to the lowest denominator, you'll end up with a bland game, where everyone wins. My joy that day by raiding the ironforge bank with a group of rogues was directly related to the 'suffering' of (owning) others. Remove the latter and you remove the former. Without evil there is no good, yadayada andsoforth...

[@haasgaming]

IIRC, flying in Draenor (no changes to the rest of the world) in Warlords of Draenor wasn't at all available until patch 6.2 which was about half a year after release I believe. At that point, anyone that got a specific exploration achievement which took a bit of time could learn flying. From what I remember the reception was, at least with the vocal people, very negative but credit where credit's due Blizzard stuck with that plan and I think in Legion they'll be doing the same.

[@iPostiPodiEatiYuri]

i really like your comment

[@Blackadder75]

You are welcome to raid the Ironforge bank any day, but HANDS OFF AUCTIONEER LYMPKIN! it was easy to avoid enemy invaders , ok maybe they would catch you off guard one time while you were in pvp mode, but I wouldn;t call that extreme suffering, it was rare and if you didn;t like it, just go to SW or pause for 10 minutes and play your bank alt (who would be immune from pvp anyway)

[@Luke-oe8fe]

If you began playing in PreBC, and have your nostalgia glasses appropriately seated, most of these "problems" actually added mystique and desirability to the game. I will never forget my first level 40 character, my first kodo mount which I had to grind thunder bluff rep for. Took me over 2 months from starting to get to that point Nor will I forget finally reaching cap and scouring the AH for BOE blues as I leveled my professions. Sure the game pacing and design has "improved," but is this necessarily for the better? I sense that WoW has become the ARPG of MMOs, where everything is expected to be fast paced and if you can't complete at least a level or two within a sitting then you've wasted your time. Meanwhile, we've completely stripped the game of necessary social interaction. People have always complained about having to clear whole continents without a mount to get to the next quest hub, but they did it anyways ultimately because they found it rewarding. The sense of discovery and adrenaline running through stranglethorn vale as a level 20 alliance stripped of his gear to prevent durability damage, surrounded by ?? mobs and players is an experience unmatched in any other mmo and will never be seen in WoW as we know it today. It may have not been so then, but it was that way for a reason. It made the world more engaging. Zones weren't just there to convey you to the next quest hub, they were stages upon which you built lasting memories of hardship, comradery and triumph. Ultimately what we have here is a divide in game philosophy; should reward be granted for player participation or player persistence?

[@haasgaming]

Big apologies for the lack of content over the last... well numerous months. I had a bunch of review, guides and whatnot planned (e.g. Darkest Dungeon, XCOM 2, PoE Awakening etc) but due to a series of really crappy real life events all of that had to be delayed to the point where they all felt irrelevant for me to even finish. Yes this is a bit of an odd one to start again with too, I suppose, but it's a topic that I'm highly interested in and wanted to get my thoughts out on. Again, sorry, I plan on getting back into the swing of things starting this video!

[@detectivelizard9532]

No worries man, as long as everything is all good! We're glad you're back.

[@urbium]

+Detective Lizard Very, VERY glad you're back and all is good (or at least not terrible). You're one of the only trusted reviewers on all of KZbin and your input has been sorely missed. I still want to know what you think of Fallout 4...

[@KorkutUstaoglu]

I would like to answer you with a vanilla chat saying.. irl>wow 10x

[@ruiptaurus33]

all the best, bro!

[@Godswole]

LOL you are still trying to discourage people to play vanilla. that's hilarious.

[@troller4jesus]

I am currently playing Vanilla on Kronos, and another toon on Warmane WoTLK. The vanilla is awesome and challenging and I love it. I'm loving WoTLK because of the end-game and the dailies as well. I would happily pay Blizz for access to both in an official/certified capacity, but their loss I guess.

[@Hope-kf1nl]

Blizzard does have classic realms.

[@cugamer8862]

For me, what really sums this up is the last shot where the narrator opens his inventory. Four 30 slot bags plus his sixteen slot backpack. I remember being in my mid 30s in Vanilla and getting a quest which could yield a 14 slot bag. For this quest I had to travel to three different zones between both continents. It took a lot of time but the reward was worth it. Not just the larger container, but the sense that I had completed something really cool. All that travel reminded me that I was in a real world, not a tiny box where I could get a quest, take five steps, do something then hand it back in. I would go back to Warcraft if it was a World again, but Blizzard dropped the world part. Shame, but I'll always have the memories.

[@ganasde65]

what people miss is the sandbox feel. We made our own fun. When you saw someone, they were from your server. Our screens weren't overly cluttered or decorated, it had a simple look and feel. Questing was hard, but rewarding. You couldn't click a button and get grouped with strangers, socialization was encouraged and required. there was an actual sense of danger, especially on a pvp server. Managing your mana was a must, as was utilizing everything in your toolkit

[@DenaInWyo]

I'm glad to see another person with the opinion that the screens are overly cluttered. It's a pain in the ass and irritating. I miss big, open spaces like Westfall. It's like they've gotten overly ambitious with their design..and then add insult to injury by not letting you fly and getting a lay of the land. I don't want to fight the very landscape itself.

[@jl6723]

i played a vanilla server with my friends and i had an amazing time, it was tough and difficult, some times certain objectives refused to happen on collection quests, finding characters was sometimes difficult, but what made the experience so fun was that me and my friends were given challenges that we forced together, yelling at eachother and then going onto our next objective was funny as hell and overall, even though no one else was really on the server we got an experience as we ran away from a group of 3 mobs, a level or 2 below us

[@swantonic5574]

Good points haas, it's nice to see someone dispel the instant argument, "It was nostalgia only". The points you made are some of the core reasons why things were better to me. Particularly the difficulty and the social element being necessary. I noticed this sort of thing even in the span of vanilla: I thought Battlegrounds were kind of disruptive to the immersive world I was in, as they sucked up the majority of players and put them into a system rather than a breathing world to pvp in. Before battlegrounds every boat into the Barrens seemed to be flooded with an alliance raid which brewed over the past hour in iron forge by someone shouting for help. Then expansion after expansion it became more like that, and less immersive. I personally liked TBC the best I think. After that, and especially after WOTLK, it became more like the trend today of catering to the majority. I think it might have had to do with Activision possibly. In any case things, even games in general, MMOs every one I try, is all just a "progressive system" trap to keep leveling new characters, keep believing you've actually achieved something with achievements spamming you ... it all just feels like hot air, and then you have someone tell you you're only nostalgic? Pssh. Feels more like I just enjoyed being in something that felt more real, and it also felt like the developers were less about money and more passionate.

[@mtggeeksgaming5064]

Ok so I play both live and private servers but the heirloom comment is wrong. It allows you to level faster and no have to take a long ass time as end game takes forever. It still take 2-3 days to level in play time.

[@mikeykm1993]

As someone who didn't start playing until TBC I would love to be able to play vanilla just to see what exactly it was like because people talk about it so much and id like to be able to join the discussion.

[@OrcBit]

Nice video :) I see a lot of valid points, can't wait to see where all this goes. Hopefully we will get Legacy servers!

[@CALISUPERSPORT]

Are you me?? You nailed every single one of my points regarding leveling now vs then, which is one of my biggest gripe with live.

[@wwecollin]

I started playing wow @ the cataclysm launch. I played cata, mop, wod and even Legion. But vanilla wow has been my main game and my best wow experience for over 2 years now. Without the nostalgia.

[@jim5140]

Very well done video

[@noyakin3064]

Honestly, the biggest reason i would love to see an official legacy server is as a brand new player (literally started last week) to WoW i would love to experience all of the lore, story and such from vanilla which has been changed completely with cataclysm....

[@sebastienroux1790]

This is what makes private servers fun as well. There are bugs that makes it more challenging that makes you work together to be able to complete the content.

[@seigmyrethegamer4584]

I am not sure if I should play a private server. They can be shutdown and I don't know the risks. One side says something and another says they are lying, and I am not sure who is right.

[@avengingfox6863]

Nailed it, the leveling experience, the journey of playing the game as a guy starting in rags to perhaps one day the guy who slays the dragon is the core of vanilla WoW. Really, it's the core of all traditional MMORPGs: the journey is of far greater value than the destination. That doesn't mean end game content should be shallow, but what modern day WoW players don't understand is that the later iterations of WoW changed the focus of the game from the journey of leveling and meeting people into the match making LFD/LFR grind experience. WoW's decline comes from deviating much too far from its traditional MMORPG roots: a game hard enough that it pushes you to meet others, a slower leveling experience that increases the odds of meeting other people, bonding experiences in the form of difficult group focused gameplay that forges friendships, de-emphasis on your character being the chosen one / hero type that makes you feel like a simple cog in the system instead of the main character of a single player game, and forcing you to move through tiers of end game content so that there is always something for people of all skill levels to work on. That is the foundation of an MMORPG. That's why WoW is not really an MMORPG anymore. It is literally an MMORPG, but the essence of what it is to be an MMORPG has been lost on the altar of accessibility to casual players.

[@jadayaindigo7696]

7:15 "seemingly outdated, horribly slow grind" - let me tell you something there you young whippersnapper! - have you ever had to stop, examine your surroundings, assess the enemies involved, check the tools / consumables and skills you have available and think to yourself... "Now how am i going to do this" while lvling in any expansion past Wrath? Vanilla lvling was like an openworld Skyrim fighting giants and the environment lvling...and ... we will never have that back

[@loser-nobody]

I've always felt mesmerized by the massive world whenever I come back to WoW and have to learn to play again without the immediate muscle-memory and all my keybinds doing most of the work. "Wait, what's my flying mount keybound to? -- ah w/e I'll just walk it's not far... oh hey, when did that herbalism shop get there?..." "Why hello, Kor'geld, *'Lok'tar Ogar'* - and all that.. Listen, I need something but I can't seem to recall where I placed my Thundering Onyx Cloud Serpent - you understand.. Anyway, you wouldn't happen to have a - oh you do! Wonderful! I'd much rather give you the 10 gold you ask for this item than walk a few blocks to the bank where I swear I have more stashed away! Either that or they're -err on my other body.. nvm.." *You can't help but adventure when you are forced to interact with the world!*

[@williambranch7970]

Thank you for mentioning Daybreak and P1999! It's a key aspect to this discussion that everyone glazes over, the similarities between P1999 and Nostalrius are there, and should be accounted for in how the two companies, Blizzard and Daybreak, handled the situations.

[@wach9191]

I have not played MMO games for years. Could anyone tell me what is the point of levels if you reach max in no time?

[@KHRification]

There really isn't one. If you reach max lvl too fast you pretty much skipped the best part of the game.

[@1TotalJabroni]

Not only has leveling lost meaning, all sense of accomplishment has as well. The game has been "streamlined" so drastically that you literally don't have to change gear or leave a main city to level from 15-90. Even 90-100 is easily done casually in a few days. Obviously there is still a learning curve for new players, but the game has lost all charm. It is purely about endgame, which itself is watered down with the Raid Finder. The game is still challenging if you want to take on the hardest content, but mostly because there is a startling lack of caring/skilled players because the game doesn't require you to care or be skilled.

[@j4kfr05t5]

+Jake Ridgeway In any game that has levels, leveling was never and never will be the best part of a game.

[@renberisha6093]

I started WoW during cata, so I never had any experience with any older versions, except doing trial accounts from my cousins Wrath of the Lich King box. And, I must say, after playing from cata to WoD, I decided on playing some private servers, both with friends and without, and even though some private servers can be buggy as heck, I still really love playing them. More fun then I have ever had with both MoP and WoD.... If legacy servers were released, it wouldn't be because of nostalgia, but because the play style and game style is just totally better.

[@carstennielsen6031]

I mean. Havent most of us run with a Night Elf all the way across Wetlands, dying multiple times just to get to Westfall? Or was it just me?

[@smashingkebab5863]

Great video Hass!

[@CanielDonrad]

you hit the nail on the head man

[@WastedOne111]

Used to be so much fun. You really had to stick together back then.

[@monkeyking9863]

well said, glad to see someone making a video like this that is not a complete petty rant just screaming "wow sucks now give us back our nostalgia"

[@cromwelltheconqueror3430]

Hey hours of wiping on Sunwell is fun you Wrath Baby. Getting dagger skill as a warrior for tempest keep was great. And also I loved doing the Kharazan attunement on all my Alts.

[@monkeyking9863]

Cromwell the Conqueror and? i loved getting skill up as well and get a group of friends together and wiping for hrs is lots of fun. but thats not the point these people bitch and cry about things they have romanticized and say the current game sucks but have not plaied in 5 years

[@cromwelltheconqueror3430]

Joseph Wroblewski Ok wiping to learn the mechanics is fun, but wiping because I don't have shadow resist gear is not fun.

[@Dguteae4]

Then get your fucking resist gear you scrub lol :D

[@keithcostello1388]

I can tell you put effort into this video. Good job.

[@patricknelson1471]

what graphics card you have ? the game looks smooth and amazing

[@watchthe1369]

The number of times I ended up farming stuff instead of questing to level and amount you had to farm was down right nasty.

[@haasgaming]

Be sure to save up for that level 40 mount!

[@kensg]

that was an excellent commentary thank you very much

[@vwlssnvwls3262]

The first time I remember feeling cheated out of the experience that I loved WoW for was when BC came out and suddenly rare and epic items were basically handed to you on a platter. From that point on it seemed like anytime Blizzard made a change it took away from the gratification I would get for working so hard. Achievements helped with this for a while, and I was always proud of how many points I had, and the hard achievements I had acquired. But once again Blizzard made changes and suddenly achievements were just a joke. This is why I want Vanilla back. I want to work for my achievements and gears and levels. If I wanted an easy experience with all this thrown at me for doing nothing... I would play Diablo.

[@PTCHNL]

I never played vanilla, but it seems that It was more immersive and you were engaged with the world.

[@Bruh-pd2cx]

Loved the video!

[@PresidentJ]

Are there any good WOTLK private servers? That was my favorite expansion

[@MrOpetr]

Molten?

[@ZunaZurugi]

called today warmane.

[@trickpa80]

Warmane - Lordaeron Blizzlike

[@Togglevolt]

I'm playing on Dalaran-wow and enjoying it :) We are currently raiding Ulduar and will soon begin with Trial of the crusader

[@ImDerpAsHell]

warmane is an amazing server

[@LiliaSahanova]

Its great to see that so many people here, still can afford to spend hours upon hours grinding for recipe at the same spot.

[@Vandalia1998]

I cheacked it out a month before they shut down. It was very grindy and slow and i only got to lv 20. I wanted to see if there was any story and lore back then. And there was i did enjoy the Druid getting swim form quest chain.

[@ecnetsixe]

the examples you give describe the nature of the adventure in original azeroth. it HIGHLY incentivize leveling partner/permagroups. going around by yourself required high mastery of your spell set and a bit of good luck! still you had to dodge the more powerful enemies and quests so a leveling buddy was always always preferable! it was a charming adventure with a vibrant expansive world requiring you to wander and drink in all of the detail, from enemies to environment. then there was the dungeon gameplay which was an extension of that charm but with teamplay. if they brought that back with all the enhancements with specs being playabale and ability/ranks no longer broken (as it is today in the game just with no adventurous charm) it would be a 10/10 mmo experience

[@111imagine111]

The main reason i miss old WoW is simply playing with people.

[@prkchpsnaplsaws2322]

So are you saying that nobody should want to play Vanilla, because Vanilla required you to actually play? If you don't want to play Vanilla - then don't play. To make the argument that "nboody wants to play it" is simply disingenuous. The dozens of private servers (nostalrius being the largest) is proof of that. If Blizzard wants to make some money off of old players, they should look at erecting a single, true, vanilla server. Otherwise, they should back off. People are sick of what WoW has become. This is what happens when you take lead designers & writers off of your cash cow, and insert entry-level kiddies in their place, putting it on auto-pilot.

[@haasgaming]

"So are you saying that nobody should want to play Vanilla, because Vanilla required you to actually play? If you don't want to play Vanilla - then don't play." Is this aimed at me? Because that's not at all what I'm saying. "To make the argument that "nboody wants to play it" is simply disingenuous. The dozens of private servers (nostalrius being the largest) is proof of that." Which I mention as an example in this very video, yeah. I'd hope that, at the end of this video, it at least is pretty clear why a large number of people are in fact interested (myself included) in a vanilla experience. But there are always multiple sides to an argument, and vanilla is - like everything - flawed. But as flawed as it may be, it's a beloved experience that is certainly different. I guess your comment may also have been a reply to someone else in which case ignore what I said. Else I'll assume you made this comment based on the first few minutes of the video rather than the entirety of it.

[@MrTirien]

He didn't look at the entire video i guess.

[@zacharybennett8463]

Did you actually watch the video, or did you just read the title?

[@Ecliptor.]

looks like you didnt watch the video at all, because that's clearly not what he said

[@skroot7975]

lol, that's like the opposite of what he said... kek

[@neglesaks]

Good discussion, thanks. Upped.

[@MarcusLeonard307]

It's not so much about nostalgia. You spoke very well about the reasons why we all play. Just plain more basic fun

[@RaiderDave42069]

I patiently await the results of Nost/Blizz meeting. I realize that when we do get official Vanilla servers, it's not gonna be overnight. Luckily all my time playing Vanilla has allowed me to hone my patience skill to max levels.

[@Tavroxx]

Very nice comment. Actually I never played WoW and just started it. It feels great but yeah, starting zones are just really empty... Do you think it's worth playing the game for a new player ?

[@Venomousse]

Must say, I agree with pretty much everything here. It is obvious that WoW has had many quality of life upgrades, resulting in significantly smoother and better paced gameplay. You no longer have to run for 30 minutes(!!!) to get to your corpse if you die in the Barrens. You no longer have zero inventory slots as a warlock due to having to hoard soul shards. You no longer have to group up just to complete a simple kill quest. You no longer have to spend all day getting a group together to complete a dungeon. But with all those quality of life changes, some core things were lost. The social aspect of the game took a huge hit. Add all the cross realm play and it's a very different experience than before. Actually talking to random people is these days rare, when it used to be necessary. People just stand in queues.

[@eno2870]

I think he had the answer to "why" when he reached his description of Cataclysm and said "then, for whatever reason, my interest faded rapidly." That's why.

[@dennispresiloski3964]

On point review. All the "pain in the ass" features of Vanilla created community.

[@TurpDotNet]

The game was a challenge, it rewarded you with all those hard worked hours questing and you had a wonderful feeling once you achieved your goals in the game. Dungeons & Raids you had to work together with the people on your realm. The community was very good as well in those days. Cross-realm play has killed this off. Also with leveling being slow and challenging you actually explored and looked at each zone more. I used to spend hours exploring areas.

[@cromwelltheconqueror3430]

As much fun as watching numbers go up is, I prefer Cata and beyond as their endgame required knowing the fights and having skill not just a high item level and resistance for the appropriate damage. Also Tibermaw rep can go back to the Old Gods prisons where it belongs along with Apexis Dailies.

[@barrywhittingham6154]

I think a lot of the decline since WotLK has to do with basic level design. From the very start you were almost forced to team up for content - the caves is the starter zones are a good example. Those spiders in the Night Elf start area, for example, particularly the boss one were nigh-on impossible to solo with starting greys and whites.Beyond that, each zone seemed to have two major and one minor questlines. Each of the major ones culminated in either a group quest for rare loot or lead into a dungeon, again requiring a group. Now it's all a single linear questline. There's no exploring. No backtracking. No travelling.You had to hunt around for all the quests in any particular dungeon across multiple zones. Now they're all *given* to you at the start.You're right. Instant gratification destroyed the WoW community. It's now an RPG, not an MMORPG.

[@RazanaArcclaw]

so wait you skipped WotLK and MoP? why do you still play if you havent played full time since BC?

[@Relbl]

The thing is that in live WoW Legion it takes 10% of the work to get to maybe 90% of the content, ie if I ripped a new toon within 2 game days I'd have that toon to 110 with an ilvl in the 850s and all that. But the grind from 850 to maybe 890 now would take months, or so much effort for tiny incremental improvements. Vanilla was different in that you could make difference making improvements with effort and co-ordination that gave lots of satisfaction - your example of the Whirlwind Axe being a perfect representation. OMG it was such a pain in the arse, but if you worked super hard and could get it at lvl 33 or 34 then you'd have an incredible weapon that would likely last you to lvl 50 and you'd be sooooo happy. The closest thing now would be to get a legendary from your first WQ daily satchel (and even then it might one not suited for your spec) But in all honesty, I would love the option of Vanilla servers but I can't imagine abandoning live for it completely. Right now I'm setting up all classes to be 840-850 so if 7.1.5 really screws things up I can pick up a new class and roll with that one. But I miss my old school druid, I miss aggro being a thing, I miss mana meaning something, I miss healers really making a difference. Teh feelz R reel

[@feywinterfox9630]

the only thing I never hear anyone talk about when one this subject is the overall change to a lot of classes. From classic wow up to say up to BC classes for the most part where like any other MMO when an expansion came out. You got higher levels to gain and new spells to use. (well all but the Pally who keep seeing a lot of change over all first), then suddenly you starting have the very way over all a class worked change to the point where it might as well be a new class in some cases. Lets take a look at Warlocks, at the start this was a debuff/pet class, when you where a Demon Lock the whole idea is you had much stronger pets, be it tanking, dps, control, it was much stronger then the other two specs. Then it was changed to not so much have stronger pets but for YOU to be a demon now, now again it's changing again come Legion into a class that spams large number of pets that only last for so long. I mean if you where a fan of the strong pet class you lost that when they made it so you where now a demon, and if you loved being a demon, that is gonna be gone now too! Look at Hunters, come Legion if you where in love with the way and style of Survival hunters, which has changed a lot over the years but none more so then now, you will be a Melee class come Legion, Yeah you always hear from the people who never played a hunter but that sounds good cause it's no longer range, or hunters who played another spec and like the idea of something new in a duel spec. What you hardly see is those who loved the spec before this big change...well you kind of did, they where the ones changing classes or quitting. I remember playing a Rogue back in Vanilla WoW. I am a big into leveling a character person so I was no pro PvP rogue or Raider Rogue, but I enjoyed it! I remember back then getting to level 20, getting class quest and all, and by the time it was said and done having a took belt of skills for some fun times! Now leveling a Rogue, a lot of the stuff you used to get comes much later or you don't get it at all depending on your spec. Most of this is made up by throwing on leveling gear and blasting threw stuff with little to no care, so not the same. Looking at Legion it feels like that tool belt has went from having tools taken here and there to just having the whole thing taken and put on a high shelf I can't reach and being told to take these 5 skills and enjoy! So yeah I can see how a lot of people would love to go back to how a lot of things used to be, the real question is at what point do we start from if they did?

[@E92M3]

vanilla and TBC are the only 2 versions of WoW. TBC would of been better without flyibg mounts

[@sain223]

So you hated Warth?

[@E92M3]

+sain223 honestly i loved wrath. sadly they made lfg queues at the end of wrath which sadly reflects badly on the whole xpack for me :(

[@sain223]

Xan Millar Fair enough

[@cromwelltheconqueror3430]

Yeah do you remember what Helfire Peninsula was like at launch, you needed flying just to not get ganked. Also I feel very immersed in Storm Peaks with flying, also world PvP sucks that's why Ashran failed and why doing the For the ... is so boring. I bet you enjoy grinding to High Warlord.

[@E92M3]

Cromwell the Conqueror the grind to grunt.

[@reee0plb465]

Man... I can't wait for Blizzard to release legacy servers. A thing you didn't mention is the fact that the content pre max level was completely relevant back in the days, your adventure began at level 1. Now all the content is at max level.

[@kmdsubs3148]

It's worth mentioning that in Cata, the dungeons were extremely hard and required mechanics to be followed. And the result of that experiment was A LOT of people complaining. So they listened, MoP dungeons were ridiculously easy. Now we have mythic dungeons. Which might have been one of the best non-raid additions to the game. If you're group wasn't OP with HFC gear, it was a real challenge, CC was necessary because either tanks couldn't take a large pull or the healers couldn't keep up. I think Blizzard's overall goal now is to create an environment that works for all players. If you enjoy mythic dungeons/raids/challenge modes ... you can do that and have no obligation to use LFG/LFR. It's completely ignorable. If you're a causal that wants to experience content on your own time, and not really put in too many hours, well, you can do that to and still feel a sense of progression. I don't begrudge Blizzard for changing the game to what it is today. I'm actually thankful for the most part because there is nothing stopping me from enjoying the game like I did 10 years ago. I've met quite a few people out in the world before flying was introduced. I joined a raiding guild and leveled through Heroic HFC and everything that I thought was stupid, I just ingored and was perfectly happy (well except for the lack of content, that sucked). But why is that so hard for so many people?

[@SkitiDamone]

Are there any good TBC servers? I didn't play vanilla but I LOVED TBC and I want to experience that again.

[@Mysteriio007]

Excalibur Wow

[@kogoderonius7635]

I missed your videos Haas. Glad your back :). On the subject i totally agree and think that many ppl that scream for the nerfs etc. dont really want it actually. They just THINK they want it. A consequence of having it all i suppose. We feel good about ourselves when we struggle and overcome. Having things handed to us might feel good right at that moment but lacks value in the long run.

[@haasgaming]

It's a hard thing to evaluate considering how much the general philosophy of the game has changed. Currently as Legion is still in beta you will occasionally run into the rare boss that is a huge obstacle (and I suspect will be tuned to be much easier as it's literally a cakewalk the entire dungeon except for 1 boss somewhere in the middle that suddenly is really tough), which immediately creates conversion in the party - that up until that point is mostly quiet. The issue is that people are so unused to difficulty in those scenarios now, resulting in most of them immediately quitting after the first or second group wipe. For Blizzard to introduce a lot of difficulty in the leveling/normal dungeon content now... I suspect will clash too much with the modern philosophies of the game. That said, it is a major factor why I personally always preferred the older expansions and why I still had a blast doing dungeons during the early days of Cataclysm where I constantly had to talk to other group members regarding tactics of bosses and painstakingly had to learn which trash mobs to CC and which not. It's certainly something I've missed in the game ever since and one of the major downsides I currently see in WoD and Legion (granted, I skipped out on MoP so I can't comment on the state of the leveling difficulty there).

[@robs9980]

Also, wiping in Vanilla didn't mean the tank/healer left right away. It took a lot to get kicked (technically couldn't) or to have someone quit as any amount of time spent in a dungeon was an investment. You'd wipe and wipe until it was 100% certain your group couldn't clear the content or trash started respawning.

[@kogoderonius7635]

Rob S Yeah. It was fun and felt much more exciting. Hard but rewarding like most good things in life.

[@lavafoxx]

Summary of Blizz’s public stance: 1. Blizz does not believe there are enough people interested in utilizing this idea long term to justify the various costs necessary to bring it about. 2. Blizz feels this idea is counter to the nature of MMO’s; non-progression equates to stagnation and eventual boredom. 3. The original game code does not exist in that form anymore. All the old data has been replaced, with the newer data which was not saved (archived) for later reuse. It was over-written and destroyed. “There is no switch to flip on the realms to roll back years of patches and changes…” In keeping with the sentiment in expressed in #2, above, it’s gone, never to return. Even if it were “recoverable” by other means it would still require lengthy and expensive rewrite. 4. They have no plans or desire to recreate the original version from scratch. They refer to the notion of attempting to do so as “a logistical nightmare,”… and in keeping with their stance in #1, above the time, money and resources required are prohibitive and unjustified. To paraphrase it all: “Too much cost, too little interest and it’s not what the game is about… we’re not doing it.” Proponents are adamant it is a good thing and continue to post it (in various forms), sometimes multiple times a day despite heavy resistance. Analogies: Those who argue for “Classic”, “Vanilla”, “Old Content”, “Old Style”, “Realm Specific”, “Locked Progression”, “Throwback”, “Retro”, “Premium” (or any other variant thereof) servers frequently fail to put real thought into their idea. Consider how this would work in similar situations in other venues. The movie industry: “The earliest days of film were so much better; we really had fun and such a sense of adventure. We really had to work at understanding what was going on and those that couldn’t read the subtitles were just bad. We want special theaters that play only silent films (Vanilla), those were so awesome and we miss them so much. For those that want black and white “talkies” (BC) we can maybe have some that do those too, but no further. Technicolor (WotLK) is where the studios went wrong and this fancy Bullet-Time fx (Cata) junk is just taking the whole thing in the wrong direction…Blizz, fix it now! Give us our silent films back!” The auto industry: We want our Model-T’s back (Vanilla)… Henry Ford’s stuff was so awesome (blah, blah)…We could support maybe the Mustang (BC), but no further (blah, blah)… Datsun’s 280Z (WotLK) is where it all went wrong (blah, blah)…Chrysler Minivans (Cata) are just too bad to deal with (blah, blah)… Proponents are asking either for (a) regression to the past where things were not better than they are now…and want to drag everyone else in the game with them… or (b) the ability to segregate themselves from everyone else so they can indulge in their nostalgia. Not only does the majority of the player base not want that, neither does Blizz. Not enough people want it to justify the costs of doing it and… most importantly… it goes against the progressive vision the company -- and players -- have for the game as a whole. You will have no better chance of getting Blizz to do this than you would convincing the movie industry to revert to silent or even black and white only films or the auto industry to revert to producing nothing but cars like the Model-T or Edsel. Blizzard specific references on the issue: They were going to, long ago… We were at one time internally discussing the possibility fairly seriously, but the long term interest in continued play on them couldn't justify the extremely large amount of development and support resources it would take to implement and maintain them. We'd effectively be developing and supporting two different games. Drysc (CM), Feb 21, 2008 blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/6...lassic-servers We occasionally see requests for us to open pre-TBC realms, or classic realms if you prefer. Lately there have also been requests for pre-WotLK realms, and I am sure that once the next expansion pack is released there will be requests for pre-Cataclysm realms as well. We have answered these requests quite a few times now saying that we have no plans to open such realms, and this is still the case today. We have no plans to open classic realms or limited expansion content realms, and you should not expect to see the opening of such realms with the launch of Cataclysm either. We realize that some of you feel that the classic game was more fun than the current game, and as a result would like to revel in nostalgia; the developers however prefer to keep the game moving forward as they want the game to continuously evolve and progress. Vaneras (CM), Nov 28, 2009 blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...igional-realms We have no plans of making pre-TBC realms. This goes against the very nature of an MMO and would be a logistical nightmare. There's no switch to flip on the realms to roll back years of patches and changes, and we don't intend to invent one so that a very small minority of players can play what we feel would be an inferior cousin of the World of Warcraft of today. Zarhym (CM), April 27, 2010 blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...the-wow-killer Question: The whole topic of classic servers has been popping up on the forums, always on yours - I assume with the release of Cataclysm there's this huge wave of nostalgia here because you can't play in the old world anymore. Is this something you might consider doing after the Cataclysm launch? Chilton: Currently, my answer would be probably not. The reason I say that is because any massively multiplayer game that has pretty much ever existed and has ever done any expansions has always gotten the nostalgia of, "Oh God, wouldn't it be great if we could have classic servers!" and more than anything else that generally proves to be nostalgia. In most cases - in almost all cases - the way it ends up playing out is that the game wasn't as good back then as people remember it being and then when those servers become available, they go play there for a little bit and quickly remember that it wasn’t quite as good as what they remembered in their minds and they don’t play there anymore and you set up all these servers and you dedicated all this hardware to it and it really doesn't get much use. So, for me, the historical lesson is that it's not a very good idea to do *laughs* - it's a great idea to talk about. Tom Chilton (lead game designer), Aug 20, 2010 www.wowhead.com/news=166540/e...tails-and-more (approx. half way down page) twitter.com/ghostcrawler/sta...81503165054976 Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street, Dec 31, 2012 Additionally, read this player post that might remind you of some of what you “miss” about Vanilla WoW: us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1718715?page=1 WowInsider has a similar negative view: May 2, 2012 wow.joystiq.com/2012/05/02/5-...one/#continued Also ? us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0659727?page=2 I work for a software company with corporate customers. Each of them has rather more invested in equipment than a PC gamer, and they like paying for upgrades even less. Our products have been advancing technologically over time in a gradual fashion, so as not to lose the customers with the oldest equipment. However, things like operating system support and hardware version support are outside our control--which means we have to keep slowly advancing the requirements, and adjust existing code to match. Over time that means stuff eventually falls off the list of what we can support, because our code, gradually upgraded as it is, starts to require OS or hardware features the oldest equipment can't support. We couldn't turn the clock back ten years, or probably even five, if we wanted to. Blizz is no doubt in the same pickle. They've changed their database structure, upgraded the graphics, and likely done a lot of more subtle stuff over the last seven years that makes it fundamentally impossible to support Vanilla code, even assuming that code still exists in pristine form somewhere. Therefore: what the Vanilla crowd is actually asking for is the development of new code to duplicate old code. That's not easy or cheap, and is going to compete directly for resources with development of current content. There would have to be a monumental ground surge of interest to make it feasible, an order of magnitude greater than what has ever been exhibited on the forums. TLDR: That's not how software works. From the EU forums, Feb 23, 2011 eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1751857331 MMOChampion poll about whether Blizz should have such servers: (June 19, 2012) www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...a-or-BC-server It's a line Blizzard has drawn from way back when, yet suggestions or requests for classic realms continue to pop up on the forums. Let me tell you here and now... don't bother. Blizzard will eventually just lock your thread or delete it entirely simply because it's not in their best interests to provide such a service. wow.joystiq.com/2009/03/13/no...realms-really/ Mar 13, 2009 Finally: Here’s a link to a past post dedicated to a deeper discussion of the idea. Please read it all the way through ? it is very thorough. us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0659727?page=1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnnSknmNfpqGZrM i.imgur.com/Xw1Dx.gif

[@Blackadder75]

You car analogy is nonsense, but your movie industry analogy is somewhat viable. A lot of people prefer older classic movies and rather watch 'Once upon a time in the ... ' again instead of X-man 8 or Spiderman the umpteenth..... With cars there are objective improvements in safety, handling, economy, performance and eco-friendliness. you cannot argue that a T-Ford was betetr in any way, if you do you are just trolling. But you can argue that art (a videogame or a movie or a popsong ) was better in a previous era, because art is subjective, not objective

[@lavafoxx]

Blackadder75 you missed the point competly. good job.

[@DarrenG]

Classic cars can actually look better than a newer model. An example being the old school challenger's design being reused. Also, car shows are pretty much based off of this concept.

[@janherfs3063]

TL;DR: You think you do, but you don't

[@cythixx]

I read 5% of what you said, but what I did read is that you're against this. Because you think current wow is good. SO, let me tell you something, no one agrees with you. Current wow is GARBAGE. I've played WoW since vanilla. And I played on Nostalrius since almost launch till it was shut down. I can tell you it's not nostalgia, people wont be "bored" from it THAT easily. I mean it would be easier to be bored with Cata, MoP, WoD, legion and lets say, 3-4 more expansions after that in the same time you would get bored with Vanilla, and I'm assuming you test out all classes and features in from those expansion. Also you're saying "oh blizzard doesnt have the code blah blah." lol are you stupid or retarded? They have EVERYTHING from early beta in vanilla>legion. Do you think they just delete the old code? That is the stupidest thing I've read. They would never do that, if they were a small company with a f2p game since 2004 and still going, with like 500 people that play their game, sure they would. But the biggest gaming company in the world, just deletes their old code to save what, alittle space ? Ignorant. Sure it would take some time to set up etc, but they do not have to rewrite everything, cause they already OWN EVERYTHING. I promise you, if Blizzard wanted to get a 100% scripted vanilla server up and running next monday, they could do it easily. Also from what I've read here in the comments, you're comparing it to old films too? Well I have one answer for you. YOU CAN WATCH EVERY OLD FILM EVER MADE IF YOU WANT TO, AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WANT TO. I bought WoW Vanilla, I bought TBC, I bought WotLK, BUT I CANT FUCKING PLAY IT. I have the copies, but I can't play it, I own star wars episodes 4, 5,6 I can put them into my VHS and watch them again, BUT I CANT PLAY WOW VANILLA, TBC WOTLK. People are so stupid to even think these days, if you could get a computer to think for you and speak, you would, because you're so fucking stupid.

[@Other442]

U right my friend. Great vid.

[@Dazart]

Slam spam was my favorite thing as a low level warrior.

[@Lupinemancer87]

End of this year? I know August is still pretty far away but it's not the end of the year!

[@Erythrox21]

Good Video, keep it up!

[@xeroxzamg7503]

I started an acc today and got on one day on lvl 45( played relaxed with friends and dungeons) so.... We done some quests after dungeons got bored and we had to change our place to quest every 19 minutes cause we nearly one shot every mob

[@Achille12345]

Good thing Blizzard will finally make a classic server.

[@EndZiiel]

I think Vanilla servers will return after the backlash but it will be announced at blizzcon as a big thing.

[@behh5280]

good vid mate, you are tickling the soft spots of which i have had thoughts on for many years. the instant gratification system sucks!

[@blackyvertigo]

the legacy servers for eq and eq2 started out strong due to nostalgia, but once people realized how much of the older games was actually quite annoying they dropped off quick.

[@RationalOrc]

but will death knights and northrend be in classic? LoL I know, but the game would feel weird without the Lich King's presence to me. I started in WotLK, and that's my vanilla nostalgia.

[@ipvp4fun]

I joined in bc and almost all these elements were still part of the game but things were just better balanced and whatnot. why aren't bc or wrath servers a giant thing?

[@DenaInWyo]

I play on Warmane's Wrath server..love it. IMO the golden age of WoW and the perfect balance of quality of life improvements along with things still being a bit difficult.

[@TheJon]

I desperately miss how WoW used to be... Back then every small bit of progress used to mean something. Uncommon items were ACTUALLY uncommon, rare items were ACTUALLY rare, and ANY epic item had it's place where it would be useful for a long time. I remember clearly when my first Character (Hordenvos, a Human mage) hit Level 60. It was a true achievement even without a little popup telling me that it was. It took me 31 days of play time, incredible amounts of time learning as I grew, working for every step I moved forward... Back then the successes we earned felt like real life achievements. We worked HARD for our success and put effort into it. This has been eroded over time to where now if we have full epic gear we are currently absolutely trash in ANY worthwhile groups. Also nobody knows anyone, the social aspect is lost, gear levels no longer mean anything, levels are passed in hours (at the longest) and as such the content and lore is more of a tedious 'how fast can I skip the text' instead of "Oh wow I helped this faction improve the way of life for their families, I worked hard for this and I appreciate learning more about it"

[@zoggotv]

You have my Thumb, Master - EVERYTHING Right!

[@dontshowmynameffs6014]

WOW in 2016 is so different from the original vanilla wow they can be seen as two different games one of which can't be played anymore. So If anyone wants to play the original vanilla wow that they bought, with bwl to Nax raids and og level zones and quests etc etc... They can't, instead they are presented with a completely different game, If said game is better or not is purely left to opinions since they are so different they can't really be compared hence it is not so strange that some of us would like to play that other game.

[@Dguteae4]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[@1TotalJabroni]

I never played vanilla but would gladly try it and probably enjoy it for the reasons listed in this video. I will always love WoW but the game just doesn't do it for me anymore. I could see myself loving the heck out of WoW in its grindy, broken adolescence. Perhaps I will try that Kronos since I missed the boat on Nostalrius. :-)

[@ecnetsixe]

spot on. it's like comparing fallout 1's experience to fallout 3. you just can't compare them. i cannot stomach the gameplay in f3... it's too open and combat focused. f1 had some fun combat if you chose to spec for it to do it, and it had fun other ways of proceeding through if you wanted to be more clever and less direct.

[@StyleGT]

play on Kronos 2 private server :)

[@sophiejones7727]

Thank you for this video as I think it gets to the heart of the complaints more than most other videos and places. And I think it brings up the possibility of a solution which could satisfy everyone: return the live game to these original ideas, but in an improved fashion. I too want more communication between players, and more world pvp. But I also want to play the live game: not some outdated old and buggy one. I don't want the game to create fake difficulty by overtuning mobs: I want the game to be actually difficult. And no, I don't actually like it when I receive a blue item from a quest. Those belong in dungeons Blizz. Which should involve personal responsibility, yes even for dps. Maybe I have to kick them. Maybe then they'll learn. Crowd control? sure. decursing and such? sure, just don't make it only the healers' job. The group finder is good: chat spam is extremely annoying. But the premade group finder thing is better: because you still have to physically travel to the location. The insta teleport to dungeons is not something I like because it breaks my immersion completely. But I see a way around it without removing it. Put elite guards at the entrances to dungeons, like in the old days, and make it so that you have to kill them once in order to unlock the teleport to the dungeon. But if they have rare drop chance items (as well as applicable crafting reagents), then people will want to farm them, at least a certain group of people. Those who just want to gear up and get on, can use the insta teleport they've unlocked. Those who want more world immersion can continue to lead groups to kill the guards.

[@aplaguedoctor406]

I'd totally go back to WoW if they made progress based servers. Start from Vanilla, release a new raid every few months, then go into TBC etc etc etc. I want the full ride again goddamnit

[@mlaurence08]

I want a MMO RPG; WoW today appeals to the single player audience. I rejoice when I see another player in the game, someone to play with and a person to know; but there's zero incentive to group.

[@plac1197]

Because it isn't the same game. The game was very different back then. It is very difficult to describe, but leveling felt meaningful, completing a dungeon or finally reaching Revered with a faction felt awesome. I played right through Vanilla to WotLK. I played some of Cataclysm but it felt dry and uninspired. I came back and played some of MoP, same thing happened. I tried coming back again for Legion. Same thing happened again! I have been watching streamers play on vanilla private servers because that is the game I want to play again. I haven't played on private servers because of personal reasons (mostly to do with the moral implications, but w/e that's just me). I am soooooo happy we are getting WoW Classic from Blizzard. I cannot wait to level my Priest!

[@icestrolo]

I would gladly sacrifice my holidays for a classic server as i did back when Nostalrius was still online. Took 3 Weeks off work and played the shit out of it. Like 16hrs a day, don't regret any minute of it except the moment when i heard the news about it's shut down !

[@cpudude30k]

great analysis and perspective on the subject I feel like especially with these last 2 expansions WoW has been treated less and less as a service by Blizzard. When MoP ended and now with Warlords, there is like 1 endgame patch for well over a year. It is inexcusable, and sure there is a lot of grindy stuff to do for rep and whatever else that just feels lazy though. They really need to step up, make the dev team bigger and really treat it like the service it should be, legacy servers would be a great start.

[@Minimeister317]

I personally would love to have a TBC private server, as it was my favorite expansion next to Wotlk.

[@bochlan]

I could not finish your video, stopped halfway and then this happened, k thx (vanilla) I had a lot of IRL friends whom we were all in friendly but quiet competition constantly trying to outdo the other, which was fun and encouraged more and more gameplay only on the occasion did we team up while questing- however as I got older I Tried out both NOS and FEENIX on a few occasions, I had only one IRL friend that tagged along- a different friend each time. Each time we quested together the entire time and got to higher levels faster, did nearly all quests (some were bugged) made more gold (also because we knew more about what we were doing this time round aka item knowledge quest knowledge and combining our professions) and overall had way more fun then trying to 'be the best' and solo everything thus the progression pace felt way less in what has been a tedious grind at times in past (yes we played x1 and x2 rates) possibly my main point vanilla was more socially encouraging When you look at retail now or just overall, the game caters more and more to casual/ solo players adding not only a instance que finder but then a raid one? (whats the point of a guild now? heirloom items and unlocks? that is great but it countered the actual NEED to socialize with other players) I have never done the "final boss" except in cata due to raid finder: it was boring, there was minimal chat, only the leaders of the group who felt they needed to guide would speak strats in a angry voice as it is expected everyone know this raid due to its ease and ease of access, and it was easy and not very rewarding, nor did i care for the loot Compare that experience with the planning and organization needed just to get 40 ppl online at the same time to do MC, gathering like a real force just to have a war breakout outside the gates(because vanilla encouraged use of the world not just teleportation allover automatically) coming together triumphant or retreating scared into the raid, the raid was massive and felt like a grand 'event' and the guilds progression even as an underdog would be somewhat renowned across the server, due to respect of its grand tasks and planning and organization and sync involved, and the loot! actually looked good and due to this respect of difficulty its like "omg that guys got fkn staff of dominance dayyyuuummmmm" "fuck that dude look at that warr with hand of rag!" "how do you even get that? it doesnt drop from a boss" the quest begins, not to mention other world pvp which was encouraged by quests ie the horde quest to summon someshit from the grave to kill everything in their town (dont see that in other xpacs, or atleast not to the same degree) the pace the movement the slow leveling was to give a sense of immersion, to take in your surroundings as you cross it, and to give a sense of satisfaction like you actually had to earn it for yourself- compare that to now, OP LEVELING MACHINES like you said, wheres the fun in that, they redid the old world which was good, but it felt abit like a big "fuck you" to past nostalgia (or the old devs)overall I say its not just the content its the overall experience, yes nostalgia is a factor, yes there is alot of things about vanilla thats not great, but as far as I am concerned there is even more things about retail that is not great like the fact that not everyone clears all progression in time for next expac, suddenly you have unfinished business as noone wants the old when the new its x10 better gear wise, privates are set to one PATCH, they may add/update/fix things however you can play as casual as you want really as there is no time frame deadline, FINAL MAIN POINT: MONEY how much have you spent on retail wow? it adds up, money is fkn everything these days, put it this way, you are paying for time in a virtual world, paying money is a commitment, because you have paid money your more and more inclined to play to "get your moneys worth" yes the money is needed for servers, but consider how much money blizzard has made from wow alone, I believe I have payed enough to cover my net usage on their servers 10x over. - long messy post for a long messy game

[@kevinswartz]

Would LOVE to go back to Vanilla WoW...

[@danexus1]

I think I'll pass on vanilla servers. didn't like vanilla wow that much. took me a year just to get one character to level 60. wasn't too interested in playing then along came burning crusade and I fell in love with the game. loves the dungeons and raids and the social aspect of the game. We were a few friends who always played. met through dungeons. We played for years progressing into heroics and raids. loved those times. still wow as it is today is okay in my opinion

[@Nagoragama]

I understand where you're coming from on the positives of Classic WoW, but a large portion of the players now are adults with jobs and family. We don't have time to spend hours looking for a group, hours completing it, and months leveling, where sessions often take hours at a time.

[@Dguteae4]

Then don't. Retail is the game for you.

[@Nloveru]

The way I explain it is that current WoW is a game whereas vanilla WoW was an actual world with all the hardships that come with that.

[@Danneleet]

I've always said when people complain that they should just chill and enjoy the game. The only change I have ever liked is the new world content and balance between classes and players to mobs.

[@Cptraktorn]

I've got 3 level 110's geared up now, I've done loads of mythic dungeons(which are a joke in difficulty) and I've made zero new friends ingame. On nostalrius I had made friends before I even got to level 20.... WoW is such a piece of shit now and the content isnt worth anything with normal and heroic raids being easy as heck.

[@anarchy254]

Lmfso let me guess you also have all legendary 8/8 in the nightmare and rank one in pvp not to forget have Mac out your keystone and have finish all of your af weapons

[@lopac5993]

traktorn if you think mythic dungeons are a joke in difficulity i wonder whats the highest level youve done...

[@beric0bartman]

All the difficulty in high lvls of M+ comes from cheap affixes that just bump up the numbers of your damage taken or lowers your healing taken, making it artificial difficutly that can just be bursted trough by getting higher ilvl.

[@lopac5993]

Finn TW That is so untrue that i doubt you ever did a mythic+. other than the +10 affixes all of them while varying in difficulity require you to change and adjust your playstyle accordingly. with bolstering you cant do big pulls or you will buff the mobs and wipe. if you are facing a pack with 1 big mob and a lot of lower health mobs you have to get the big mob down before you kill the small ones so his health wont be buffed as much