Hadith: Between Muslim Conviction & Western Criticism - Jonathan Brown

[@going2sleep]

Great conclusion subhanAllah. 29:20 "When Muslims have a skeptical or suspicious approach to Hadith it is because they have adopted a suspicious and skeptical approach to religion." "Do you really want a world full of God and Prophetic presence in it because if you do, and want to take on the wisdom of the Prophet then you take the mindset of those classical Muslim Scholars." We should all ask ourselves this question.

[@jigglefloyd]

+seif deiab Qur'anist detected: pointless arguments and trolling incoming

[@brucewayne-fz8hn]

+jigglefloyd so you believe apostates should be killed then? do you know one other organization that executes deserters? it's the mafia. seems like you folks have something in common.

[@brucewayne-fz8hn]

seif deiab actually they did write it down but later they burned those writings (maybe for good reason). then someone collected those sayings and well, welcome to 2015.

[@JoeMorreale1187]

+Seif Deiab the one that is deaf, dumb and blind is you and by a long way too. If the hadiths are not to be trusted then how comes for example dozens upon dozens of hadiths regarding the end times have all come to pass and continue to do so?? If chains of transmission and testimonial evidence which is superior to anything in recorded history is not to be trusted then NOTHING by comparison is or should be.... Your a clearcut joker .....

[@going2sleep]

Seif Deiab He references things based on Culture of the people. I can resonate with Yoda or Syfy movies like Matrix because it is what I grew up watching as a teenager. I could relate to them and simply clarifies the message. If you reject all Ahadith you reject the teachings of Islam and nullified your faith according to consensus of ALL credible Sunni Muslim Scholars. So you might want to check that out before it is too late.

[@abdallah2018]

The problem isnt "Western Criticism" or secular ideologys creating doubt. The problem is the rigid literalist attitude of muslim scholars who insist hadiths must be taken at their literal meaning even when they contradict sense, science and in some cases even the quran itself.

[@unhingedconnoisseur164]

both are problems IMO

[@Jay-NYC]

MashAllah. I just loved this lecture and the knowledge it offers. I just pray that all these modern day so-called quran only trendies, give this video a chance to reflect on themselves and how they view this important issue. Jazak Allahu Khairun to brother Brown. I love him as my brother in Islam.

[@Muslim604c]

Nice perspective. I learned a lot from this, Jazakallah Khair

[@essamjack]

Great lecture and I appreciate his advice at the end of his talk.

[@asadqaraxan]

thanks a lot for sharing this

[@makelovetothesound]

Subhan'Allah. thank you brother.

[@5eek3r0fknowl3dg3]

the sun doesnt have arms and legs so wont prostrate like a human, theyre doing sujood the way an inanimate object would

[@majdzakia7979]

very valuable lecture... thank you

[@KGS922]

because the scholars can understand them and increase our understanding of islam as the prophet spoke about it

[@abdelbaasit1]

Very important lecture!

[@TheMercifulAndJust]

Fantastic!

[@tremordrake1749]

13:00 -- important - Classical scholars also had a critical approach to hardith Classical Muslim Scholars going back to the 10th century --said exactly the same thing... ---regarding the sun prostrating to God hadith. They too were critical..and jurists especially were not naive to think every hadith is very correct.

[@AG-qo6oi]

30 minutes of chat to make this 1 point; anything you think is controversial contained in the hadiths is in fact figurative and has a deeper, positive meaning and if you interpret it negatively it is because you have another agenda or a negative person. Fair enough, but why so much of this ambiguity. Do we question the value of these texts as a standard teaching tool if it takes a genius to work out?

[@CLBOO6]

In my opinion, the hadiths are ambiguous because these are the words and account of manners of a mortal man, not a divine speech. The prophet is a mortal man and therefore it's just natural some or many of his words are somehow ambiguous to us, what's more, we are not living in his time and the language he used isn't native to our tongue neither it is similar to the arabic language of the present. In fact, there are many factors. Yet with all these language, culture, and time barriers, we still have access to hadiths and are still able to analyse the hadiths.

[@bhaagyam307]

Obeying it's Creator's duty is in itself Prostration.Metaphorically doing your destined /ordained task is Islam

[@JDVmusicSound]

Cool to hear a Muslim scholar start a speech with a Star Wars joke and a cool, calm, intelligent demenear throughout. Times are changing. We don’t need bearded mullahs yelling at us.

[@metanoiaepoch380]

sharing

[@NishanthSalahudeen]

to me, what he said is... believe first and then study hadith to find reinforcement to that belief. if it is not obviously so, then find an indirect way of finding what you want to find as a believer. if you still cant, then perhaps you can either consider yourself to be not knowledgeable enough and give up or else as a last option if it is very very obvious, then this particular hadith report might be wrong. This would mean that potentially a wrong/false hadith which leaves a few doors open to be creatively reinterpreted to prevent it from being an absolute killer, will live on within the religious life while potentially restricting the believers life/thought unnecessarily. it might add inconveniences or injustice in this life. But it also makes sure that any available true hadith will not be lost due to misunderstanding. So the first part is the price to pay for the second part. It is basically an effort to make sure that you dont accidentally make a right into wrong, but you might make a wrong into right. So err on the safe side. Like the speaker said, this approach is chosen due to the conviction that, missing out on a correct hadith has real consequences. Clearly, faith first before study. Not the western rational idea of starting investigation with suspicion. True unless proven wrong vs false unless proven right. Hadith (basically history which directly dictates human life) should be analysed in the same way as analysis of regular history (which doesnt directly dictate human life) or not is a question worth pondering. eg: hypothetically if using the modern or classical analysis of a hadith, we wrongly understand that the prophet said that all black dogs are devils, then there could be a real impact that people would go around actually killing all black dogs. But if the same methods of analysis and acceptance finds that president Nixon said that black dogs are devils, then .... thats OK because it is just nixon's opinion, a curious story and there is no real impact on life. I think there lies the significance of the approach, how loose should we be in letting false things into life vs leaving correct things out. To a believer, this world may be not so important, so the potential wrong impact on this world from his mistake might be taken lightly as compared to the potential impact on afterlife. God knows what is the right path! I am tempted to take the other side,... to take what I absolutely think to be correct(it might still be wrong) and then pray for forgiveness if we made a mistake due to the god given imperfection. He would be benevolent enough to understand and might even appreciate the intention.

[@MaliBritIndi01]

Nishanth Salahudeen So what you're saying is that we should believe first and ask questions later? isn't that blind faith? Obviously, you should first study and understand something before you believe in it. You can't run before you can walk in order to run you must first LEARN how to walk. This law applied to everything even religion.

[@marlogue53]

If you are a Muslim it's cosy and comfortable to declare the incomprehensible as figurative speech. But this can be seen as akin to the child who simply doesn't want to grow up.

[@voiceforjusticeandproporti5543]

Hmm ... there is some truth to that. But I think you've missed the message of this talk. I don't agree with everything he's said ... but his message is more to do with how our own bias effects the lens we view the Hadith and Islam through. is it really a problem with islam or a problem of the lens?

[@mjzeb]

Correction: Fez Singers of Morrocco.

[@mjzeb]

I believe its from the Zaytuna College Recording of the Fez Brothers of Morrocco reciting the Burdah.

[@MargaritoDiaz-q3r]

Its people that make claims like the coran has no contradiction and makes the most sense that make people question that claim and investigate it because every one wants to know if such claims are true

[@jubzfree]

Please someone tell me, what's the name of the qari saying bismillah right at the beginning.

[@muhammadasadtashfeen9694]

can anyone tell me what is the point he made about javed ahmad ghamdi towards the end of the video?

[@Factszz]

Matter is very simple that when Prophet passed away; what he left behind in written form? 1- Complete Noble Quran written by Scribes under his supervision & Divine Supervision. 2- A register in which names of his about 1500 Companions were written. 3- Did he leave any his sunna or hadiths behind in written form? NO NO Biggggg No. why? Because Quran is the best hadith of Allah 39:23 & Quran is also the only authentic hadith of Prophet 69:40-48 as Quranic Wahi was uttered by sacred lips of Prophet. 4- In 7th Centuries, Millennia Zoroastrian empire was crushed by Muslims and Persian felt deep humiliation. They planned to harm Islam and Muslims. They prepared Pseudo Imams like Bukhari and Others & gave then duty to fabricate lies 300 years after the death of Prophet and later they labeled that lies as hadith and sunna of Prophet. It is matter of common sense that if Hadith and sunna were part of Islam; Prophet could had set up another panel of Scribes to write down his hadith and Sunna like was done for Quran. But Did he? No NO and Biggg No. There is tons of multiple historical evidence that it was crime to preach or possess even any true real hadith of Prophet in the time of Prophet and 4 Guided Caliphs. Caliphs in fact collected all hadiths from people and burned them. 5- All 6 books called Sihae Sitta are authored by no any Arab from Madina Mecca Egypt or Syria but all from the Zoroastrian Imams of defeated Zoroastrian Persia. Their hadith Books are heap of lies, that lies contradict Quranic laws & are an insult of common human intelligence. For example, People have fever when Hell Boils & Woman is equal to dog and monkey and Quran is eaten by Goat and Prophet did intercourse during mensuration etc. There is tons and tons of Crap in these Satantic Books of hadiths that Persian Forged to split one Umma into sects and to distort Islam and to send blindly following Jaahil Muslims astray and that what is happened. All Muslims must Google following line and read that page fully: "Some so called Hadiths that every educated Muslim on this planet must read" *To Sump Up:* *Whole Islam is contained in Quran and what is not in Quran is NOT PART OF ISLAM at all.* *Books of Hadiths and Sunna are Satanic innovation. Up to year 722 A.D, Hadith and Sunna used to have no any legal status in Islam & Islamic Courts. It was Criminal Imam Shafi (Paul of Islam) who was father of that Satanic innovations of Hadith and Sunna.* *As Per verse **5:44** of Quran, Sharia laws can only be made from Quran and who do not do so are Kaafirs. Therefore all who make sharia laws from these Satanic innovations of Hadiths and Sunna are Kaafirs.* *Obeying the messenger is in upholding Quran, the whole Quran, and nothing but Quran*

[@Factszz]

hezbollahnyc -Allah has called the Quran "Tibyaanan li Kulli Shaiyin" (16:89)". This means it explains everything. We have read each line of ur comments. Appears, U are an ignorant and ur comments *CLEARLY SHOW* that U have never read and understood each verse of whole Quran otherwise U will not post this crap here. Let, first of all, you Jaahil understand each verse of whole Quran and then debate with us. We love to debate but We do not waste time with Jaahil idiots. and also read fully this page bit.ly/zZRwbz to educate urself. "And We have revealed the Book to you which has clear explanation of everything, and a guidance, mercy and good news for those who submit." (Qur'an 16:89) As the verse states, the Qur'an explains all matters - it is not the other way round where other books have to explain the Qur'an - a false notion many people have come to believe. Allah states the Qur'an is complete, fully detailed and elaborate: “Shall I then seek a Judge other than Allah? When it is He Who has revealed to you the Book fully detailed?” (Qur'an 6:114) "We have brought them a Scripture - We have explained it on the basis of knowledge - as guidance and mercy for those who believe." (Qur’an 7:52) “This is how We explain Our revelations in various ways.” (Qur’an 6:105) "See how We explain the revelations, perhaps they may comprehend." (Qur'an 6:65) "It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think." (Qur’an 10:24) In verse 10:15, Allah says "When Our Messages are conveyed to them in all clarity, those who hope not that they are destined to meet with Us, (want to strike a deal with the Messenger). They say, "Bring us a Qur'an other than this or make some changes in it." Say (O Prophet), "It is not conceivable that I would alter it myself. I only follow what is revealed to me. I cannot disobey my Lord, for I fear the retribution of a Mighty Day." (Note: It is crystal Clear from this verse 10:15 again that when Allah/Quran talks about Wahi/Revelations, it is wahi of Quran only. Also read 69:40-47 & 72:1 & also read Sura Abasa to reconfirm this point. So It is very clear that Imam Shafi was the biggest Criminal of Islam who first time equated Quranic Wahi with so called Hadiths--> Hearsay & Gossip of hypocrites and general public & Persian Zoroastrian Imams) . O Prophet, Say:........I but follow what Wahi is revealed to me (Wahi of Quran)............Please refer to verses: 6:50 & 7:203, 46:9. 10:15, 10:109, 13:130, 18:110, 20:114, 75:16, 21:108, 29:45, 38:29, 38:70, 39:27, 39:55, 39:65, 41:6, 42:7, 42:52, 72:1 ----------- Verse 39:23 says Quran is Ahsan Hadith of Allah Verse 69:40-49 say, Inna Hu Qoulan Rasool un Karim. It is utterance of Prophet. So Quran is only authentic Hadith (utterance) of Prophet Too bcaz Quranic Wahi was spoken by prophet. *If Hadith and sunna were part of Islam, Prophet could have set up another panel of Scribes to write down his hadith under his supervision, as was done for Quran. But did he? No. He forbade to write his hadith and 4 guided caliphs placed ban on hadiths. See link below for Proof. It were Criminal Persian Zoroastrian Imams who forged millions of hadiths 250 years after the death of Prophet.* It was Crime to possess or preach any hadith in the time of Prophet and 4 Guided Caliphs. 4 Caliphs collected all hadiths and burned them & they also banned all hadiths. *Read U son of Abu Jahal full Proof here* justpaste.it/g4ep

[@shafiqifs]

Factszz Most of the Hadith contradicts Qur'an and nobody seems to be concerned since last twelve hundred years. I am not saying Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) has said anything contradictory to Qur'an but these so-called scholars like Bhukari, Muslim, Tirmidhi & Nishai etc. have corrupted Islam by reporting fabricated Hadith which otherwise was banned to be written. I appreciate the courage of Mr. Israr Ahmad Khan who has written a book "The Authentication of Hadith: Redefining Criteria" about this issue.

[@shafiqifs]

Factszz Well said. You are absolutely right.

[@Factszz]

Thank U brother There are very few people like U who have ability to make distinction between Haq and Baatil

[@CaptainKidd315]

+Factszz And how exactly do you know the Prophet had a panel of scribes? How do you know there was a register of 1500 companions? Where is your evidence? Where is your evidence for any of the other absurd claims you have made that these hadith were fabricated by the Persian Empire and Bukhari wrote hadith 300 years later? I know this is a year old but if you ever bother reading this, I dare you to actually prove any of these claims. I know you cannot because you are talking out of your backside.

[@nahidsharin]

i don't understand why this borther (dr. jonathan) doesn't send peace and blessing to prophet Muhammad when he takes prophet's name.........

[@siran424]

brian lacte mohammad is a pedophile ...

[@jahangiro]

What use is Hadith if its meanings are so cryptic and convoluted.

[@hylianlegends]

Most are not cryptic and convoluted. 99% are straight forward. But 99% of Muslims focus on the 1% that are convoluted.

[@abdelbaasit1]

(4:20)

[@tigerfoo563]

Inshallah Muslims will stop committing shirk and abandon ridiculous statements like "Bukhari is the second most authentic book after the Quran" putting the Quran as the head of some sort of pyramid scheme, sharing space with other sources of religious legislation. No one is a partner with Allah, but unfortunately Muslims have made the prophet a partner. This is EXACTLY what the prophet came to stop. The Quran holds true Islam, not manmade books. Part of the reason why we reject the Bible as authentic scripture is because its canons were selected by men. But we do the same with Hadith...

[@Jay-NYC]

Sorry, you are so wrong. Muslims do not make hadith as the Christians made their manmade books the essence of their faith. We are quite certain that the Quran is the ultimate guide to our faith. But we also are aware that the Prophet saw, was authorized to teach and explain the Book WA (and) al Hikmah. The second revelation by Allah swt that the Quran clearly states. But hadith rejecters would like to pretend that they are the same even though Allah differentiates them by using the word, WA (and). There is no other way to read this simple yet very important word. You can pretend all you want also. It will be on you when Allah swt asks why did you deny the obvious.

[@tigerfoo563]

You place the books of hadith next to the Quran. You believe that without the hadith, Islam is incomplete. But you will never say so out aloud. Your actions contradict your words. If you believe in taw heed, and that the authority of Allah cannot be shared with anyone, including any messenger, then you cannot take hadith as a source of religion.

[@Jay-NYC]

Timucin Tiger OK you so-called 'quran only' pretender. Since you claim that we; "believe that without the hadith, Islam is incomplete.", if I asked you a question relating to a Quranic ruling, you wouldn't need to go anywhere else but the Quran alone for the answer. Correct? With that said Allah swt says in Ayah 4:176 {They request from you a [legal] ruling. Say, "Allah gives you a ruling concerning one having neither descendants nor ascendants [as heirs]." If a man dies, leaving no child but [only] a sister, she will have half (1) of what he left. And he inherits from her if she [dies and] has no child. But if there are two sisters, they will have two-thirds (2) of what he left. If there are both brothers and sisters, the male will have the share of two females. Allah makes clear to you [His law], lest you go astray. And Allah is Knowing of all things} Now as per my # references (1) and (2), what is to be done with the 1/2 after the sister gets her share and the 1/3 after the 2 sisters get their share? Now remember, the answer, according to you, must come from the Quran alone and not any other book, not even other Ayat that do not relate to this particular ruling nor your 'understanding' or anyone elses. Otherwise, your actions will contradict YOUR words. And as for your; " the authority of Allah cannot be shared with anyone, including any messenger," claim: 4:91 {We have given you (O Muhammad) against them a clear authority} 4:153 {And We gave Moses a clear authority} 11:96 {And We did certainly send Moses with Our signs and a clear authority} 14:11 {It is not ours to bring you an authority EXCEPT by the Permission of Allah} 17:33 {We (Allah) have GIVEN his (the murdered) heir authority} 17:80 {And say (O Muhammad), "My Lord, cause me to enter a sound entrance and to exit a sound exit and GRANT me from Yourself a supporting authority."} 23:45 {Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron with Our signs and a clear authority} 28:35 {Allah said: "We will certainly strengthen thy arm through thy brother, and invest you both with authority} 44:19 {And [saying], "Be not haughty with Allah . Indeed, I (Musa) have come to you with clear authority} 51:38 {And in Moses [was a sign], when We sent him to Pharaoh with clear authority} I ask you, who should I believe in regards to this? You? Or Allah swt? These 10 Ayat not only prove you wrong, it proves you dont know nor understand the Quran alone at all. So I will leave you with just 2 words of advise and warning; 40:35 {Those who dispute concerning the signs of Allah without an authority having come to them - great is hatred [of them] in the sight of Allah and in the sight of those who have believed. Thus does Allah seal over every heart [belonging to] an arrogant tyrant} 40:56 {Indeed, those who dispute concerning the signs of Allah without [any] authority having come to them - there is not within their breasts except pride, [the extent of] which they cannot reach. So seek refuge in Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Seeing}

[@tigerfoo563]

Brilliant. Another believer who quotes numerous ayaat to prove a false premise. When Allah says He has given authority to Moses or any other Prophet, it doesn't mean that Allah is violating tawheed. It doesn't mean that there is any other judge other than Allah. The Quran is clear that only Allah is the source of hukm. I know you will misinterpret many other ayaat as others have. Allah has given us humans authority over certain things, over some people, it doesn't mean that Allah has split a percentage of His authority with us. It isn;t 50% Allah, 50% prophet, or anyone else who Allah has given a position of authority. You either believe Allah has 100% authority and sovereignty, or not. If you genuinely believe Allah has given some of His authority to someone else, then you violate the absolute authority of Allah. As for your inheritance question, it is the same question as all others like you. For example: "how do you pray according to the Quran, how do you fast" etc etc. We can go through these questions all day if need be, I constantly used to answer them, but it doesn't address the root of the problem: do you believe that the Quran, the speech of Allah, is sufficient for you as a source of religion? Yes or no? If we threw away all the books of jumbled hadith (which if you believe in as a source of religion, then in principle you actually believe that Allah left part of his message in contradictory and weak fallible sayings, since the books of hadith aren't infallible, there are strong, weak, fabricated etc). That is the question. Yes or no? It's the one question you won't be able to answer clearly. If you say yes, you'll defeat your own position, because then you'll be forced to admit that you can throw away all other books as a source of religion. If you say no, that will be blasphemous by your own standards, but your actions will still continue to contradict your professed beliefs. You are tied up and strangled by your own warped logic. So, what is it? Once you give a straight answer to that, then I'd like you to answer this simple question: is there any other food that is haraam outside of those declared in 6:145? Do you believe so? If you do, (such as those mentioned in other sources), then say so. Allah says to bring a witness to testify that it is haraam. So if you believe there is any haraam food outside of 6:145, then say which food, and the witness (narrator of a hadith, name of a sheikh etc). Answers to just those two questions will tell me where you stand, then we can have a clear discussion.

[@Jay-NYC]

Timucin Tiger You wrote "quotes numerous ayaat to prove a false premise". What premise? I gave you the Ayat as they are. You are trying to say they mean something else. I know the authority granted the Prophets does not violate tawheed. That was my point. You just confirmed it. Thanks It is most contradictory of you to first write; "Allah has given us humans authority over certain things, over some people," and then write; "If you genuinely believe Allah has given some of His authority to someone else, then you violate the absolute authority of Allah." Please, make up your mind oh wise one. And talk about not being able to answer clearly. Boy! Whats brilliant is how you totally couldn't just provide me the answers to my questions related to 4:176. You just go on a tandem with your own "logic" and conjecture but produce nothing from the Quran alone as you preach. And then you have the sneaky audacity to present your own questions so to cunningly avoid mine. Not happening son. I initially told you, you need to provide the answers and not your logic/conjectures of the Ayah. The challenge was made by me not you. I think even you realize you have been put in a corner that you cant seem to find a way out and thats why your playing this word game of challenges. You have been exposed and you are a just a talker of Quran but cant provide Quran. I'm still waiting for the QURANIC proof of the answers, NOT yours. Lets go.

[@marlogue53]

This is like listening to a conversation among the dillusioned.

[@gulubdur]

"just interperate it metaphorically." how convenient.

[@abdullahk9606]

David Castle. What's wrong with that smarty? Don't you use metaphorical language??

[@robmckay5421]

Jonathan Brown says a lot but at the same time says nothing at all. He is full of waffle. Waffle, waffle, and more waffle.

[@5eek3r0fknowl3dg3]

so

[@invadazim4320]

I like waffles :)

[@5eek3r0fknowl3dg3]

i watched some more he covers other topics

[@voiceforjusticeandproporti5543]

What is your objection exactly? Can you point to something specific?

[@habibrahim88]

You look like a waffle

[@lettersandwordsandstuffs]

Dudes wrong and your book is evil

[@quranalone6034]

hadith is the greatest deception

[@TheGreenPillCoach7]

+Quran Alone You should seek forgiveness and return to Islam, because currently you are rejecting core tenants like embracing the Sunnah.

[@brucewayne-fz8hn]

+Fahim Faruk maybe u should just leave him alone. why does it bother you that he has freedom to choose what to believe in? Have you run out of apostates to kill and thieves to amputate and women to stone that you have nothing better to do?