Halide's New Process Zero - Computational-Free Photo Mode is a Retro Game-Changer

[@johncameron6289]

We’re slowly getting back to getting things right in the camera and then adding your own touches. Love it

[@Andyhutchinson]

Yea it's nice isn't it. :)

[@craigcarlson4022]

This feature is very appealing.

[@Andyhutchinson]

That it is.

[@slowbluesmaster]

Brilliant review. Computational 'reality' vs actual reality. I'll take the latter very time.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Cheers :)

[@dennisdragan1128]

Nicely presented… Worthwhile watching. I have the App and the Update: You’ve encouraged me to use it.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Cheers - definitely worth experimenting with. :)

[@tgjames011]

The Halide team explained more about how P0 works over on r/ShotWithHalide. The P0 is only applied to the HEIC/JPEG image. As you explained, they found a pipeline to completely rid the photo of any computational input from the camera software, then add their very minimal tweaking. They have stated before they love grain in photos. It makes the photo feel more authentic. The RAW data image is still just a regular RAW DNG. P0 is NOT applied to it. If you purchased the latest Halide version and have access to Image Labs, you can take the RAW image and tweak the exposure with P0 applied to it. If you just edit the photo in any editing app that can edit RAW images, you are just using the plain RAW image. There isn’t any P0 applied to it.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Thanks James. Does seem like I need to do an updated video for this app with this extra information. All seems a bit disingenuous on the part of the Halide team. :)

[@WilliamSmith-hf8um]

Long time Halide fan here. This process zero mode is basically a true RAW mode for the iPhone, Apple's "RAW" is not a true RAW at all, they're still doing computational processing. Every photographer should be using process zero mode

[@laptoprelaks]

i learnt about Apple LOG first before knowing abt the Process Zero... although one is video...i start to realize that the oversharpening is way too strong and whats making it easily identifieable as a smartphone pic lol.... i watched all the Apple LOG video those are really really different than the usual Proress in iphone 14 pro and below.... so yeah P0 all the way for street photography but capturing moments normal computational camera app

[@alexeydanilchenko434]

It was always there, just called RAW before. No idea why they renamed it and made the whole hoohaa about it. It was my main mode before this version anyway since ProRaw applies unremovable sharpening and noise reduction.

[@WilliamSmith-hf8um]

@@alexeydanilchenko434 do you mean in Halide? Because if we're talking about the Apple camera app, I only see ProRAW, I can't find a "RAW" mode or setting

[@Stone1108]

Nice one Andy, Totally on board with what you said here, Halide is up there now, I do use it on my iphone but use it more with this Fw update!!

[@Andyhutchinson]

Thanks mate - definitely worth using I reckon. :)

[@sviatblog]

I didn't tonice view and sub count before athcing the whole video... great work, Man! I love the way to structured everything and, overall, a great video!

[@Andyhutchinson]

Appreciate that mate - thankyou :)

[@marcrjacobs]

Great review, I'm switching today... thanks

[@Andyhutchinson]

Cheers Marc - let me know how you go. :)

[@WillNewcomb]

Haha! I thought you'd be one of the first to try out and review Process Zero. While I still have Halide on my iPhone12pm, I've moved over to Reeflex so I'm not sure I'll be playing with PZ. Blessings

[@Andyhutchinson]

It's been a bit quiet on the 'interesting app' front, so I was really pleased to see it announced! :)

[@ShootingAndReloading]

Agree on the destructive quality of phone computational photography! I use the 'Moment' app and it allows HEIF, TIFF, ProRAW and (proper) RAW.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Yea that's a nice app. Don't think it bypasses the quad bayer sensor in the iPhones though. :)

[@alanholden307]

Thanks. I'll give it a go. Can't get realistic colours on my sunsets, so let's see if it helps.

[@Andyhutchinson]

See how you go. :)

[@NikolasPrivitera24]

Finally!

[@ro4lol]

What camera on the tripod filming you on the beach Andy? Cheers love your channel

[@Andyhutchinson]

Thank-you - that was just my GoPro Hero 12 with the default film mode. :)

[@mytravellinfo]

The biggest issue is I was unable to use the Denoise option from Lightroom cause Adobe thinks it's a processed RAW but with Halie zero mode Adobe really accepts the RAW version of the DNG and it did allowed me to process the Denoise feature of the LRC .. AMAZING.

[@dwightbroemanphotosandart]

Good to know. I have had to go out to Topaz for this. Will give it a try!

[@Andyhutchinson]

That's a great tip - thanks.

[@dwightbroemanphotosandart]

Andy, you are the first to review. Good work! I have a question and it seems to be a sticking issue out on the Reddit forums. Is the PZ image the DNG file or the .jpg after the +/- exposure adjustment? I am hearing that the .DNG file is simply a RAW file as if you would have captured the photo in RAW. I am reading that we do not get the Process Zero image in the RAW file. We would have to make an exposure adjustment +/- in Halide which saves a .jpg file that includes the Process Zero effect if you will. I am going to reach out directly to Halide. Will advise after I hear back.

[@Andyhutchinson]

All I can tell you is that I made no exposure adjustments to force a JPEG save. The RAW (DNG) is all that I used for this comparison and it is 12megapixels, as the developer said, because it's not using the quad bayer array to quadruple the pixel count up to 48megapixels.

[@dwightbroemanphotosandart]

@@Andyhutchinson Sounds good. I asked Halide and will reply with their response here when I get it. Thank you!

[@dwightbroemanphotosandart]

I am quoting the Halide Team's response: The PZ is not the .DNG file. "The P-0 image is the JPG / HEIC. You don’t have to make an adjustment to get Process Zero if you have ’save HEIC / JPG’ enabled (check that ‘Advanced Settings’ submenu if you tap ‘raw’ in the viewfinder."

[@josephmyers6947]

@@Andyhutchinsonyou have been able to get a bayer raw 12mp for years w/ halide. Not Proraw, raw. It’s the whole reason I’ve had the app for years - easy real raw. P0 does nothing to this raw file, it applies a “development” algorithm like Lightroom does - but one the halide guys made with the intention of mimicking real photos, not semantic hdr like apple does both with heic pics and to a lesser extent proraw files.

[@Andyhutchinson]

@josephmyers6947 @DwightsPhotoandArt thanks both - appreciate the info :)

[@lexmilo]

Great video! I just wondering is Process Zero is not the same as taking RAW on Lightroom Mobile?

[@sviatblog]

Just wanted to write the same comment. Lightroom mobile has great option to shoot dng and, though heavy, in a great quality, much better than stock iPhone. Less forgiving in low light but a lot more flexible anyway.

[@Andyhutchinson]

No definitely not. The big deal with this is that the Halide team found a way to skip the quad bayer array in the iPhone which is how you got those huge 48megapixel files as normal. The RAW files from this app are standard 12megapixels. Halide's always had the same RAW that you get with LR Mobile, Process Zero is different.

[@sviatblog]

@@Andyhutchinson would love to see a comparison, if you are interested in doing such a video!

[@josephmyers6947]

There is a misunderstanding here - Process zero does not affect the raw file. Process zero is only the jpeg/heic file which halide creates from the raw file. In Lightroom you are using the same raw file that halide (and other apps) have offered for years.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Thanks mate. I'm going to do a follow-up to address all this. Can't say I'm happy with the way the Halide team sold this feature to the public. :)

[@josephmyers6947]

@@AndyhutchinsonAgreed. The developed jpeg/heic with minimal processing is still cool, but the marketing has really confused this.

[@alexeydanilchenko434]

It is not new in Halide - this setting was always there but it was called simply RAW and not ProRaw to distinguish Apple processed raw from real raw. Now they just renamed it. It is also the only mode supported in non Pro iPhones without ProRaw and was supported there for years

[@Andyhutchinson]

It's different to the old RAW. That said it's also not as useful as intended.

[@mardymarvin8441]

I thought the apple DNG was basically a raw file but you had to have an application that knew how to read it correctly as it was the newer DNG file standard so you can turn off the auto smoothing and things like that but still get the advantage of using all the relevant lenses like the fusion camera.

[@siggiingvars]

I am in the process of getting my old color negatives to digital and I am using HALIDE and Iphone 13. What is the easiest way to invert photos from negative to normal positive color? I am a novice and new to photography; all advice is much appreciated.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Pretty much any decent photo editor will allow you to invert the photo. You can even do it in the Preview app built into MacOS - there are some videos about accomplishing this here on KZbin (not my videos - other people's).

[@c.augustin]

This "Process Zero" mode looks like the simple RAW (saving a DNG) of many other photo apps (I'm using ProCam at the moment)! Nothing special, just a DNG which can be developed with any decent RAW converter. I use it since … I don't know how long. The iPhone 4S was pre-DNG, the next one I bought could provide DNGs. The 4S had decent JPEGs (with minimal processing and rather natural looking results), but after that I was horrified by the JPEGs I got out of it (might've been the first SE). The DNGs give a much better idea of what the iPhone sensor is capable of (quite good resolution and dynamic range, and the new AI denoise of Adobe Camera Raw works wonders on these files). Not nearly on m43 levels, but still very useful. The current hi-res sensor in the latest iPhones I have no experience with.

[@Andyhutchinson]

No, it goes beyond that. It fully bypasses the quad bayer sensor responsible for the 48megapixel resolution on the main camera. This means images shot in this mode are only 12megapixels big.

[@Skullizer]

The RAW photos of the ProCamera app on my iPhone 15 Pro main cam are max 12MP too.

[@ashjcoronado]

Neat idea but this process is severely compromised so it’s not a real solution for me, for once you are restricted to shoot only in 12 mp with all the sensors and for the main one that leaves almost zero wiggle room for cropping and reframing in post, you also cannot use the virtual lens options of the 14/15/16 Pro series like the 28mm 35mm and 48mm and are only limited to the 3 native ones Apple offers, lastly you cannot do Portraits in this mode… having said that I just discovered this other app called “No Fusion” which addresses every single one of those gotchas and comes with the same minimally processed look to their HEIF + RAW shots, the app is also prettier and my opinion and you can purchase outright for like 10 dollars as opposed to 60 that Halide charges, no contest really.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Thanks - I'll check it out. I can see they say 'No sharpening' on the app store listing. Is there anything more substantial you've seen that says how they're bypassing the computational engine?

[@valentinrizvan1870]

Hi there. What beach is that if you don't mind me asking

[@Andyhutchinson]

That's Seven Mile Beach in South Coast NSW, Australia.

[@alfo6085]

How did the Halide images compare to the Apple Pro Raw images?

[@Andyhutchinson]

Pro-raw showed over-sharpening and edge degradation due to pixelisation but it wasn't as bad as the Apple Processed shots. Sample here is pro-raw (left) versus process zero (right) - share.cleanshot.com/ng0W99F6

[@dwightbroemanphotosandart]

If I am not mistaken, the RAW file is simply a raw file. I think we need to use the +/- exposure adjustment for correction to get the benefit of PZ. Unfortunately, this makes the .jpg/.heic file the only format that accepts the true PZ? I am trying to get to this video. Sorry if this was covered in it.

[@josephmyers6947]

@@dwightbroemanphotosandartyou are correct. This video is wrong - but it isn’t his fault, the Halide crew has been very unclear. If you go to their subreddit though, you can get the explanation.

[@dwightbroemanphotosandart]

@@josephmyers6947Jose, agree 100%. We all thought the same thing. So with P0, if we use the HEIC or .jpg, it is essentially a filter. We can work with the RAW file and do our own film filters in post. Thanks for replying.

[@anupammahato1]

is it supported on normal iphone 12? thanks

[@kevinbrumfield8007]

Please pardon my ignorance, but after reading the comments, I'm confused about where and how P0 is being applied. If you select the P0 RAW format, does that mean you just get a DNG off the sensor that bypasses the quad-bayer sensor? Also, if you select the Advanced Option to save an HEIC with RAWs, does that save an HEIC from the before-mentioned P0 DNG, or is this a separately processed HEIC image? Thanks for any clarification.

[@JackMc-em2mj]

I can tell you what I think I know based on my own testing and the comments of others here and elsewhere. No thanks are due Lux, the developers, who have provided much marketspeak and little light (pardon the pun). The Lux confusion cloud has been amplified by numerous uncritical online “news” writeups. To date, Andy seems to be the only experienced reviewer who has taken a closer look. Kudos to him. The only output of the Process Zero feature is either a 12 MP HEIC or JPEG file, generated in-app at export. The single-shot 12 MP DNG RAW files captured by Halide are not different from those captured by any number of other third-party camera apps. These are NOT linear DNG files, which I would have found far more interesting and useful for subsequent editing. As to the how question, Lux isn’t saying. Not known is whether the Process Zero demosaicing algorithm is something new new or just some tweaking of the Apple RAW engine. I suspect the latter. For 11.99 USD per year, Lux offers an update (Image Lab) where one can adjust the “exposure” of the exported HEIC or JPEG. It is not clear to me whether this adjustment biases the demosaicing algorithm itself or is something done in a subsequent step. Underwhelming.

[@josephmyers6947]

@@JackMc-em2mjthis is exactly it. The 12mp raw is a true bayer raw. This has been available on the iPhone with an app like Halide since the iPhone 8. There’s no ‘bypassing’ the 48 megapixel quad sensor… there’s no need to a 48 megapixel quad sensor is really 12 megapixels of binned data unless it’s being interpreted in a special way. Apple has always provided this 12 makeup pixel binned raw and it’s the same now as it always was. Halide did not change it and does not change it. What is new is they provide their own developing pipeline to provide a minimally corrected image with no AI. This is the jpeg/heic. This is P0. The descriptions by the Halide folks are either purposefully, vague or what I think is that they just weren’t clear in explaining.

[@mtlreiner]

Can anyone else report how Image Lab functions on their device? Lux documents that it should reprocess and replace the previous JPG/HEIC Process Zero image. If I do an edit with Image Lab, it doesn't replace the P0 JPG, but instead creates a new JPG, with a second JPG icon to the right of the original. If I do further edits, it only changes this new JPG. It seems as though the original P0 image is locked out.

[@alanhuntley55]

Whoop. The ProCamera app has had this functionality for years.

[@Andyhutchinson]

Nope. That's just RAW - Halide's had that for years too. With process zero it skips the quad bayer array on the iPhone sensor and all the upscaling and sharpening you get to shift to that 48megapixel size. You end up with a 12megapixel RAW instead that completely dodges the entire pre-processing pipeline. ProCamera doesn't do that, or LR Mobile or Moment.