How TV Shows Are Sabotaging Themselves (Video Essay)

[@HarboWholmes]

Remember to actually look at the upload date before you post the smartass Game of Thrones comment you're currently cooking up

[@adrak91]

HAHAHA yeh i was like wtf, then checking the date

[@MrChupacabra555]

You really should make a 'Game of Thrones' addendum, though. Also, what's up with the 'algorithm'? I must not be the only one who is suddenly getting this in their 'suggested' feed.

[@robertgalster6777]

Non of them were in purgatory. Jesus. The ending of lost is so simple to understand. They all died but at different times and they used their experiences and friendships to find each other in the afterlife. Its not ambiguous if you actually paid attention. Also the scifi element was always there. The smoke monster was introduced from the 1st season, time travel was shown in season 4 with Desmond. Lost ended at the right time and the ending left me in tears. It was great.

[@Citizen13]

@@robertgalster6777 meh, I didn’t like it.

[@Citizen13]

Poor GoT... was so great, and just... ugh

[@AvatarYoda]

Avatar: The Last Airbender did it right. It was intended for three seasons, ran for three seasons, was strong throughout, and had a great finale.

[@nik0kirin212]

Actually the ATLA was supposed to be 4 seasons (aka 4 books, one for each of the elements), but 4th was cancelled in the end, hence, the whole "wtf happened to Zuko's mother?!"

[@ig-8861]

@@nik0kirin212 There seems to be conflicting information on whether or not there was meant to be a fourth book. One would assume so based on the whole "Where is my mother" thing. But the creators themselves have come out and said. There was never going to be a fourth. Which is largely demonstrated in how well the series wraps up overall. Additionally, the Books being named after the elements directly related to what element Aang was learning at the time. Since he'd already learnt Air bending prior to the shows start. The absence of Air as a book title is also used to demonstrate how the Fire Nation wiped the Air Nomads off the face of the Earth.

[@florianweber6462]

@@nik0kirin212 If you are interested in this plot, there is a comic about it.

[@danielaardila5081]

I think Orphan Black did it right too. Each season felt closer and closer to and ending of the story, but slightly open. It was intended for 5 seasons and in the last one BBC dropped the show to be bought for Netflix (thankfully)

[@coyraig8332]

@@ig-8861 There's one big thing that makes me think there was supposed to be a book 4. Uncle Iroh went to the spirit world before the events of the series. This is a very big deal since the Avatar is the only other character to go there, at least until Korra. Speaking of Korra, they never explain why Iroh is in the spirit world or why Zuko is surprised.

[@starlimitz2]

Gravity Falls also had a perfect ending. As much as I wish it never ended, I'm really glad it did.

[@ivancruz5735]

Great show

[@dimitrified]

I feel like that about Bojack Horseman too

[@celsetialarchives5909]

I adore gravity falls but I believe if it had more seasons it would have gone down in quality tbh

[@Koel_Hellion]

Ending was alright but wouldn't say perfect tbh

[@IWorkInPixels]

I felt that way about The Good Place.

[@maxjax977]

CW is terrible for this, their shows start strong and fall apart after the first or second season.

[@bryanmanzo1162]

Oh my God yes!!! The CW has some amazing shows, but because they want them to keep going the story suffers so much, it's hardly the same show anymore. Arrow, Flash, The 100, and plenty others started great, but as time went on, things became stale, they lost what made them good. Honestly I think it's faster to name CW shows that ended at just the right moment and stayed good throughout. If any

[@polen7455]

So damn true 😔 The Flash S1&2 had pretty good storyline but 3 onwards, it was stretching out and recycling a lot of stories and episodes.

[@AmbienceOfficial]

Supernatural, anyone?

[@joe.a8361]

@@AmbienceOfficial my favourite show. Still good

[@TheRisingHeroz]

@@AmbienceOfficial when the brought in angels and demons I was like okay this could be good but after a while I lost a interest and miss the monster of the week stuff they had

[@ThatJohnKillion1970]

Sitcoms suffer this same fate. After the 3 or 5th season of "will there/won't they", it becomes nothing but engagements, weddings, and babies.

[@stevenclark5173]

I feel like that can work in cases like Frasier where the "will they" was more of a subplot of a supporting character and not the main focus.

[@nicolepiscopo6553]

Community had one of the best sitcom endings ever

[@sadsadtearsofaclown859]

*How I Met Your Mother entered the chat*

[@mayotango1317]

No with Married With Children.

[@RsMt1505]

@@sadsadtearsofaclown859 literally nothing hugely wrong with the show EXCEPT the last two episode

[@josueguillen4111]

Supernatural should’ve ended at season 5 after they defeat Lucifer. It would’ve been poetic for Dean to settle down with a family (the life Sam wanted) and Sam sacrificing himself to end the biggest supernatural threat to the world, the mission Dean had made for himself since the moment we met him. It’s poetic.

[@qwinlyn]

Funny story, that’s when it was originally written to end. Kripke had a five year story written out and even left the show after season five because he was done telling the story he wanted to tell. It’s why the next season where Sam comes back feels a bit clunky and less integrated with the stories we already know. Ruby was dead, Yelloweyes was defeated, their mother was avenged, and yet it kept going? I ended up leaving the show around that time frame and if you ignore everything post Lucifer it’s a very good ending.

[@frodofan0321]

they took everything about the season 5 finale that was good and reversed it for the actual finale. godawful... but it could be worse. if covid hadn't happened kansas (the band) would have been in the last episode. we really dodged a bullet there

[@mishamusha8233]

I hated season 5 ending and I’m glad it didn’t end there because I hate Lisa so goddamn much her and Dean’s relationship is forced

[@nerdadendem]

From a story telling perspective I completely agree. You can tell right away after season 5 that there is no longer a clear direction. Everything from season 1-5 feels like it’s laying the ground World for everything that happens in season five. As much as I’m a die hard supernatural fan and love the characters I can admit that I really dropped in narrative quality. (Still think the characters are worth the plot tho)

[@NeptuneNoire]

And they just kept retconning stuff over and over again, and forcing a relationship between Dean and Cas ... eh...

[@cebasm3861]

Stranger Things should have been an anthology series, where each season was it's own standalone sci-fi/horror inspired story 😩

[@andrewrivera190]

That’s what I thought it was going to be when a friend of mine explained to me the show and said there was going to be a season 2.

[@Jay-eb7ik]

They can easily make each season about a different number other than 11.

[@davidpowell7549]

At least the show isn't doomed to go on forever, they said only 5 seasons, quite a lot but at least the duffers actually planned an ending.

[@xboxpenguin8705]

i'm pretty sure it was supposed to be an anthology

[@Randomperson-zt3il]

It was supposed to be but they scrapped it

[@fpdarkness9062]

That particular Comment on Game of Thrones ending on a high has not aged well.

[@rikudoubapeck]

Was thinking of commenting the same thing

[@reck1224]

Or that lost is regarded as one of the worst endings in tv history. This guy is an amateur.

[@Pughausen]

I've never heard anyone say the lost ending isn't one of the worst in TV.

[@seanc9520]

Lost was shown at a time when there was no streaming. Had to wait,week by week,over a TV... Those who watch it then and loved it critic it the harshest. Just compare to GOT's ending. Those who loved it most,hate the ending most.

[@tristanneal9552]

@@reck1224 Lost IS regarded as one of the worst endings of all time. As someone who's never watching it, that's one of the only things I know about the show!

[@himanshisobti6937]

I think The Good Place had a good ending it didn't just give us the ending where the characters got everything they wanted 'to be in the good place' but showed us that even if you have everything you can imagine in the world you still don't have everything

[@stephjovi]

Agreed. It ended soon and it was good because they found a way to wrap it up and it was good. I loved the show

[@BiologicalClock]

The Good Place had an amazing ending. I've watched it through three times and ugly cry through Chidi's ocean monologue every time. The show really could not have gone on any longer than it did, so I'm glad they ended it at four seasons instead of trying to shove another season or two when the narrative couldn't sustain it.

[@charlietownsend2826]

@@BiologicalClock | Agreed. That show moved at a breakneck pace for me considering how much each season shifted the status quo of the characters so dramatically, especially considering that when you first get into it, you’re essentially excepting a funny sitcom (or at least I was). I was definitely hooked from beginning to end though. Definitely one of my favorite shows out there.

[@Woodkin007]

You didnt think it was funny how the only white male representation was either out of touch or evil?

[@stephjovi]

@@Woodkin007 I don't think that was completely on purpose. It's seemed more like the typical American TV show most characters are bright white the main cast gets a little more mix so more people can identify and to be pc enough. But the entire rest is pretty bright white and the two most important characters are too

[@natalierivera5276]

This is why I love limited series like The Queen's Gambit, cause they know that they're ending the story and not leading on the audience with a shitty cliffhanger so they're able to plan for it wrap everything up, and craft it beautifully.

[@nicholasbrassard3512]

Agreed, that was a good one!

[@ingolifs]

Yes, Beth Harmun is good, but can she defeat the DOUBLE RUSSIAN??? Stay tuned...

[@johncarter6519]

Absolutely! When it won at the Golden Globes I was shocked to hear it took forever to get developed, but then again not a lot of people cared about Chess before it, so it made sense.

[@i-am-mercurial]

Isn't season 2 in the works?

[@MrPerfectBob]

Other very good ones I've seen are: The Band of Brothers The Pacific Fargo Chernobyl The People V. O.J. Simpson Unbelievable The Bodyguard Please suggest me some more good ones

[@someone-lk8qz]

Fleabag was a really good comedy show and many people wanted to see more but I'm glad that it ended. The ending was meaningful and great

[@iunderstanphotography2780]

excellent series

[@shrimptastic7975]

they ended it at the perfect time and i've been thinking about it ever since it did. perfect conclusion to the series and i love how they tied in a running gag in a way that made me laugh through my tears

[@andyespinozam]

Dark is another example of closure, such a great ending. They also made the 3 seasons, just as planned. Such a gem.

[@rubybowen6805]

I love the ending of Dark so much, definitely one of my favourite shows.

[@killpioo2]

6 feet under, maybe not the most original but I was so happy most of the characters got a good ending. I really enjoyed it

[@rubybowen6805]

@@killpioo2 I love the ending of Six Feet Under!

[@prussiangreen6940]

absolutely loved it, it's perfect

[@hellodumplings8564]

I personally think the ending was overdone and by that point the writers didn’t know what more “mindfucks” to add and they just straight up shot some bullshit from their ass.

[@waywardbard]

April 2019: "Lost has the worst ending of all time." Literally The Next Month: [GAME OF THRONES has entered the chat] November 2020: [SUPERNATURAL has entered the chat]

[@theswedishdude1]

did supernatural finally end? i stopped watching the show like a decade ago

[@seanc9520]

I stopped around 2 seasons. Did know it continued but actually never bothered to check. It's like being running for10 years? I think. Did the cast finally grow too old?

[@readhistory2023]

@@seanc9520 It ran for 14 years and both stars have talked about returning aleady despite both having moved on to new shows. The actor who played Sam is doing a reboot of Walker Texas Ranger and the actor who played Dean has a role in The Boys. Being old isn't a issue for that show. Bobby Singer, named after one of the shows producers, was one of the most popular side characters and he played their substitute father for many seasons and he was his late 50's while filming.

[@dallasisgood]

Come on. Supernatural wasn't that bad. The last episode is incredibly lame and Dean & Sam are massively OOC but episode 19 was a great ending. I plan on pretending that 19 was the last episode and that episode 20 was fan fiction.

[@danielwinch2986]

Supernatural ended perfectly....at the end of season 5. It then limped on for another 10 years.

[@andrewmanchiraju8005]

I know this video came out before Game of Thrones’s ending, so with the benefit of hindsight I can say that GoT’s finale has the opposite problem, that being that the show should have had 13 seasons not 8 with the last 2 shortened.

[@nbucwa6621]

Yeah. The difference being that G.O.T had source material to follow and they(the sh0wrunners) cut it off in the middle.

[@futurestoryteller]

Despite the childish rumors I get the distinct feeling that the showrunners wanted to end the show quickly simply because stretching it out would have given them more chances to screw it up. People seem to forget how despised Season 5 of the show was, especially for being slow and "pointless," peoples' reaction to Dorne in particular probably didn't give them much confidence to be really deep in the narrative without Martin's guidance.

[@donkeysunited]

@@futurestoryteller I agree. The last season had the feeling of "end this show now so we can move on with our careers" - specifically D&D moving to Star Wars. They sabotaged the closure of GoT to secure lucrative deals with Lucasfilm and later Netflix while disappointing millions of fans and even the character actors themselves. They got out and moved on before we all found out how weak they are when they had to write their own material on a show that was deeper than they could ever hope to be.

[@futurestoryteller]

@@donkeysunited That is almost literally the opposite of what I just said. I understood the backlash to Season 5, but nothing in it led me to conclude that they could not have stuck the landing with more time. I'm saying the reason they didn't give themselves more time is because people wouldn't stop whining.

[@donkeysunited]

@@futurestoryteller You said the reason they didn't give it more time was because it would give them more chances to screw it up.

[@bassstuffidk19]

i think Netflix's Dark is a brilliant example of a show that knew when to end. A 3 season story written by a married couple that did everything brilliantly

[@bassstuffidk19]

@DSB i dont think thats reason at all to not watch, the 2nd season is just as good if not better than the 1st

[@supatroopa6320]

@DSB I 10/10 recommend you watch Season 2, it’s in my opinion, the best season.

[@crocodileman94]

I disagree. The first two seasons were brilliant, but the third one felt like they didn't know how to tie up all loose ends and finish all character arcs in just one season. I'd go into more detail, but that would be spoiler territory.

[@bassstuffidk19]

@@crocodileman94 i agree to some extent, i did feel that it was weaker than the first 2 seasons,, but felt that it tied up ends well enough for me to not have any actual problems with it

[@jackgoodall6865]

@@crocodileman94 it’s a mystery you don’t need every answer

[@travconnelly]

For those worried about it, this video is about how shows end, so look out for MAJOR SPOILERS for the following shows in these sections. The spoilers come up quick and without warning, so you won’t be able to pause in time unless you know they are coming. Intro (tons of random clips): 0:00 Lost: 1:24 Pretty Little Liars (Lost mentioned once, opinion mentioned with no spoiler): 3:02 The Walking Dead (no real spoilers here, just opinions): 4:33 Random scenes from many movies/shows with no real spoilers: 5:24 Lost: 5:56 Breaking Bad/Sopranos: 6:58 Sopranos: 7:09 Lost mentioned suddenly with spoiler: 8:21 Breaking Bad: 8:30 Random scenes: 9:38 Pretty Little Liars: 10:01 Orange is the New Black/Stranger Things, implied spoilers for Glow/Supernatural: 11:30 Breaking Bad, very sudden spoiler: 13:19 Orange/Strange/Glow/Supernatural: 13:29 Black Mirror/American Horror Story (opinions/scenes only): 14:42 Random Clips(Another Breaking Bad and Lost spoiler included in the clips): 15:29 Every movie/show mentioned or shown even once: Oz, Stranger Things, Sopranos, Pretty Little Liars, Game of Thrones, Lost, Better Call Saul, American Gods, The Last Kingdom, Supernatural, Breaking Bad, Glow, Sons of Anarchy, Prison Break, Preacher, Doctor Who, The Good Place, Orange is the New Black, The Walking Dead, The Thing (1982), Shawshank Redemption (1994), The IT Crowd, Sense8, The Italian Job (1969), M*A*S*H, Star Trek: The Original Series, Star Trek: The Next Generation, The Expanse, The Good Place, The Thick of It

[@sg-qi7np]

i hope your phone charger works from every angle

[@aayushkhatiwada8341]

@Harbo Wholmes pin this comment so people don't get spoiled out of the blue

[@noodledoodle1356]

Thanks :')

[@FlatOnHisFace]

Agreed. Deserves a pin.

[@nicholasbrassard3512]

Breaking bad spoiled T.T figured it'd end that way, but still xD

[@Runner_in_the_dark]

This is kind of why I like the idea of HBO doing more mini series like Band of Brothers, The Pacific, Generation Kill and most recently with Chernobyl.

[@WasimSaleem]

Uhh, those are based on real events. Can't exactly go on forever.

[@YariAzQuran]

The Night Of was actually really good (had its flaws, but still very memorable to me)

[@ramblingrenegade6346]

@@WasimSaleem I think that's the point. They're dramatisations of actual events and thus you have a story you can fit within 5 to 10 episodes. You wanna try artificially expand the story with fictional events added in, you're gonna have to do a great job of it like the final episode of Chernobyl did, otherwise people will know you're pulling shit out your ass to drag it out

[@jackrutledgegoembel5896]

@@ramblingrenegade6346 I'm sure they could still manage to do that, but you're right, it'd be more obvious.

[@IntrusiveThot420]

@@WasimSaleem idk why your comment made me laugh, but like, isn't history constantly ongoing?

[@juliamoriarty1918]

realized this came out before the game of thrones finale and im-

[@Brindlebrother]

i'm sorry that you're-

[@jasper24601]

did you get eaten by a demon while writing th-

[@MsLilly200]

Is this like a Candlejack thing or somet-

[@RobinK]

You guys hearing those gunshots? I think there's a sniper out th-

[@andrelima4125]

well..arguably GoT was going worse since they ran out of books but sure

[@emmaporter8160]

The real tragedy with shows running to long is that it ties up the cast and crew, and prevents them from working on anything else.

[@2adamast]

The tragedy of the cast of The Big Bang Theory nevertheless made me envious

[@dotty6970]

to be fair they could just not sign the contract an do something else.

[@wasd____]

@@dotty6970 Why would they do that when 'something else' probably won't pay as much because it's unproven (and therefore probably lower budgeted) and won't guarantee viewership like an established series would?

[@dotty6970]

@@wasd____ i mean I'm not saying they should I'm just saying they could.

[@dirkmaes3786]

​@@dotty6970 Not really, a young actor can't just get the rare opportunity of a leading role and then jeopardize the whole series by walking away because they think it's artistically beneath them to play the same character for ten years. There's a lot more riding on a series than one actors ego. They are working with a lot of people who need to rely on that income and whether the show becomes a long term success provides them job security. If an actor walks away from a successful show too soon, they will be vilified as that one pretentious asshole who thought they knew better than the producers; the guy who screwed over the director and the writers who gave him this one in a lifetime opportunity. And they basically let down everyone who they worked with on that series and wanted to continue. Nobody would feel like that actor has earned their stripes to be featured in a Hollywood production and nobody would ever risk giving them another leading role in something else. Once they walk out their career is over.

[@Slowp0w]

I'm surprised the Dexter ending was not mentioned - "let's keep him alive as a lumberjack so we can revive the series 8 years later"

[@Nighthawkinlight]

Dexter is the only show I've watched in its entirety, except for the last episode. The second to last was so horrendously bad I couldn't stomach watching another.

[@chosjokolate9014]

Dexter is one of my favorite shows ever, but I've never watched past season 4. That's where I felt it naturally ended for me and I've only heard bad things about the following seasons. But that way I still have only positive feelings towards the show

[@AmbyJeans]

@@Nighthawkinlight you did yourself a favor. As awful as the last season was, the last episode.... it was beyond awful. The show should have ended after the 4th or 5th season.

[@TangoNevada]

I have no idea why, but Dexter is extremely overrated. My only conclusion is a lot of people secretly want to kill other people. it seems like people find some kind of thrill in both the killing and getting away with it. That being said, I liked the show, but it did go about 1 or 2 seasons too long.

[@jinisteffani8035]

YES.. I mentioned it ...the worse... stupidest ending of all time I think...

[@agrumpymonkey5800]

Mr. Robot is another good example of how to end a series. Only 4 seasons, but each is connected and most loose ends are tired up, with a very satisfactory emotional ending. Mr. Robot is very focused with the way it tells the story through Elliot’s perspective. That’s what tv shows need, a focus on how they tell the story

[@DroogyParade]

It also helped that Esmail Wrote Mr. Robot as a movie first. He had the whole story already planned out.

[@ReaperShackal]

@@DroogyParade It has its share of problems though. Mainly that, imo, s2 and s3 have some real fluff to go through.

[@EB-bl6cc]

@@ReaperShackal I agree. People praise mr robot as this pinnacle of TV but, while good, it does have some issues and I'd put it a tier or two behind the Breaking Bads/etc. of the world

[@TangoNevada]

Mr. Robot was one of the best shows ever. A pinnacle of Television far above any other cable TV show. It Started and Ended Perfectly. It didn't go on too long and told the story it intended to tell and ended well before it was worn out.

[@damazywlodarczyk]

my god this is the stupidest series ever

[@violetlavi2207]

I always felt like Stranger Things should’ve ended after the first season, actually. The second wasn’t...terrible? But I feel like everything was pretty well wrapped up in the first season’s finale, and the small cliffhanger could very well function in the same way as the Sopranos’ finale

[@ericlayton8888]

Imo should’ve continued with the anthology idea - different town, different characters, different story. But with a concurrent “Misadventures of Henderson & Harrington” spin-off show

[@violetlavi2207]

@@ericlayton8888 YES I WOULD’VE LOVED AN ANTHOLOGY! Different setting and cast for each season!

[@slayertakim1]

@@ericlayton8888 the anthology setting could have let the series explore other aspects of horror. Imagine a stranger things season based around the slasher achetype

[@leedolan8876]

second season is my favorite season tbh just skip the goth filler episode

[@marisp2588]

they literally fight the same monster every single time it just looks slightly different

[@bleepbloop101010101]

Breaking Bad ended on a high note because the showrunner didn't want it to fade into obscurity (he worked on X-Files and wanted to avoid that). I think that's the main reason why it went that way. The final season even had a different number of episodes so they could finish it the way they wanted on their terms. I have a ton of respect for them for doing that. I notice a lot of really promising shows get cancelled after 2 seasons (usually after getting their time slots messed with by the network) on an unintentional cliffhanger, and it hurts. I wish good shows weren't killed prematurely or kept around long after they've died.

[@Ckoz2829]

As someone who’s watching The X-Files now (my sister and I are on season 8), I can say that the monster of the week and character specific episodes help the pacing immensely. If it were just the alien conspiracy episodes back to back, I probably would have given up after season 2 lol. And as far as season 8 goes (which everyone says is the where the series goes downhill) I’m actually enjoying it. I like Doggett, I like Reyes, I like that Skinner is getting more screen time, Moulder came back, Scully is starting to take up Moulder’s mantle while he was gone. I know it’s not for everyone, but my sister and I are loving the post Moulder seasons. Of course we still have one more season, a movie, and two reboot seasons to watch, so we’ll see what happens.

[@bigstepper4125]

So you're anti-abortion and anit-Necrophilia, then

[@Ckoz2829]

@@bigstepper4125 I don’t get it.

[@SteveBakerIsHere]

The idea to tell the complete story, have it end properly when it needs to - and THEN, if the network demands it - you add spin-offs with whatever characters worked best. Better Call Saul - and the movie-length "what happened to Jessie?" are PERFECT examples of that. We always wanted to know how the heck Saul and Mike got to where they were - because that's unspecified in the original series. If the show had not still had a great audience at the end - then Walter's death was enough. But they left themselves a CLEAR opening to at least one or two spin-offs...and if they're clever, the spin-offs can add more characters and the spin-offs can have spin-offs of their own...expanding into an entire universe of loosely interconnected shows within the same genre. StarTrek does this. StarWars does this. Audiences are mostly OK with it. Better Call Saul is (in my opinion) actually a better show than Breaking Bad...in one respect because you know where it will end as it dovetails into the original series. The ending of that show is pre-ordained...and they telegraphed the ending with the shots of Saul working at the Cinnebon...and left open a way to do more as we see that his cover is not perfectly maintained. Game of Thrones was an odder problem. The story was already laid out from the books...but for some reason the series had to be curtailed and we ended up with the horribly botched ending. That's always going to be a problem when a show has to be cancelled before the natural end...and I'm not sure what can be done about that other than to have contracts that guarantee the show reaching that natural end no matter what. That's probably optimistic.

[@bigstepper4125]

@@Ckoz2829 Nevermind. Bad joke

[@killjoy_ao4653]

I think that Brooklyn 99 is beginning to suffer from this issue

[@astoldbynickgerr]

Yeah. Did season 7 feel off for you?

[@killjoy_ao4653]

@@astoldbynickgerr it just felt too clean and sauvé, y'know ? i liked it when it was kinda scruffy

[@juliamoriarty1918]

seasons 6 and 7 are def not my favorites. im gonna watch season 8, but still

[@jackbradford4796]

I think 99 just keeps getting better but I have a feeling the show will have a bad ending

[@Scarlett90]

It's ending with S8

[@flxutist7071]

Over the Garden Wall is an amazing miniseries on CN. It has a story to tell, tells it, and that’s it

[@user-uy1rg8td1v]

True. But Over the Garden Wall is a pretty simple story.

[@larsg.2492]

@@user-uy1rg8td1v Well, the source material is 700 years old, and the adaptation is far from simple, at least in my eyes.

[@tawhidpranto3862]

For this reason, I love True Detective first season so much. Everything got resolved in the first season which can be considered as the greatest opening season of any show of all time.

[@Beboroni]

Harvey said it best...” You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain “

[@cybercop0083]

Don't come here with some Harvey Weinstein garbage!! That potato-prune can just sod off!!

[@bobsandwich3431]

Harvey Weinstein American icon

[@madmatzac]

Harvey Dent, wanker

[@cybercop0083]

@@madmatzac Hey!!!! Language???

[@eemu252]

@ Johnny Jockster I’m pretty sure he’s referencing Harvey Dent from Batman

[@Punkandcannonballer]

To be honest, Stranger Things should have ended after the first season.

[@Punkandcannonballer]

@@martasorangeberry you're certainly welcome to think so.

[@benjenkins2241]

It should of been a anthology series.

[@Punkandcannonballer]

@@benjenkins2241 I think that was the original plan.

[@benjenkins2241]

@@Punkandcannonballer They should of sticked to it.

[@ericlayton8888]

@@benjenkins2241 they didn’t stick to it because they realised that the characters were more compelling to the majority of viewers than the actual premise - I agree that it should’ve wrapped up after season one BUT I love Steve Robin so in my ideal world there’d be a comedy spinoff from season one called The Adventures of Steve & Friends alongside Stranger Things working as an anthology series

[@greenmario3011]

There is a reality in which Supernatural is remembered as a wonderful 5 season show

[@mishamusha8233]

No

[@Ultr4l0f]

Haha, aint that The truth. If memory serves it was actualy planned as 3 seasons. The demon-lord they face was supposed to be Satan, but it was such a hit that they tweaked it. But they did a great job in making the five seasons. Partially because The narrative could be padded by the monster of the week episodes. But it realy got worse and worse. And worse. Had it been 5 seasons I would e rewatched it twice by now. Now my wife saw all seasons and I kinda glanced at the TV for 4 seasons and watched the final 2 episodes to know how it ended.

[@AmbyJeans]

It got redundant, but never dull

[@maksimgamuvka4975]

Maybe in the Spanish dub

[@thechancan5254]

I live in that reality and I refuse to leave.

[@theanimev4567]

*How will it end" One piece: we don't do endings here

[@Noblemile2]

Berserk: B Ö Ā Ţ

[@amanzeihedioha]

@@Noblemile2 Rest in Peace, Miura-sensei🥲

[@mavsworld1733]

From the start One Piece has had the end goal mapped out for us. Each arc takes the reader closer to that end goal. Further each arc has nice endings. There are plenty manga that overstretch the original planned out story and fail for it. Bleach and Naruto being prime examples.

[@queenkleeopatra7156]

Shows with a great ending: - Avatar -The Wire - Six feet under -Malcolm in the middle - Breaking bad -Dark

[@LostInWorld-7320]

The Shield

[@Dawn11180]

The good place!

[@Epscylon]

Hannibal.

[@thedrinkinggamemaker9749]

Miami Vice

[@ZaccoOfficial]

- Better Call Saul (hopefully)

[@joskimengstrom2853]

Plz no sequel to the Queen's gambit...

[@Jay-eb7ik]

The rook's shuffle.

[@sofiavillabroilo4767]

It probably won't happen, given that it's a miniseries and they typically have a definite ending

[@SafirAksel]

It's a limited series, so there will be never a second "season"

[@joskimengstrom2853]

@@SafirAksel Nobody mentioned a "season".

[@teacherbecca526]

Agreed. Or Fleabag

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

HIMYM: we had a plot outline for 2 seasons but we went for 9. We changed the starting premise completly by making it clear that 2 of our characters are never meant to be in a relationship with each other only to ignore all of that development and throw the 2 realtionships we build up for the last seasons out of the window so we can go back and use the filming material we made 7 years ago.

[@LEFT4BASS]

For real. So much character development went out the window so fast as they tried to force Ted and Robin back together.

[@theotherLewbowski]

We??

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

@@theotherLewbowski Imagine the showrunners saying this.

[@nightowl8477]

Stranger Things ends perfectly in Season 1 tho. If you remove the obligatory cliffhanger of Will seeing the Upside-down, it's much more satisfying than anything is Season 2. As many have said, the show became a lot less strange with a lot more things. It became a teen soap opera (as if we didn't have enough of those on Netflix.)

[@lorddorogoth]

I disagree. While it did have some teen drama elements, so did season one. Also, the rest of the show stayed kinda creepy. I can see why someoned would be upset that they took the original very simple plot and made it bigger with some noticeable repetitions, but its not a teen drama.

[@MarieAnne.]

@@lorddorogoth I disagree. In the first season, we have 3 distinct groups: the adults, the teenagers, and the children. In the second season, the children are becoming teenagers, and we now have a two-fold increase in teenage drama.

[@lorddorogoth]

@@MarieAnne. I have changed my mind now and I agree with you.

[@llevin222]

While I understand that idea, I think moving season two to the side and comparing season one and season three is a much better analysis. We have the teenage drama aspect of it, but in a newer way, it isn't "I am a teen and constantly wanting to have sex with others" or anything like that, It is some younger teens figuring out how to be themselves (El). Robin's inclusion in the show as being a gay character for a show set in the 1980s will be really interesting to see how that plays out. Also, I think the creep factor has lowered in the show in terms of jump scares and big bad "unknowns" which I am fine with personally (I hate jump scares so quite biased). I think the later seasons focus on building the teens up, and while that is for a slightly different audience, that doesn't mean that the later two seasons aren't beloved and are still very popular. IDK, I just really like what they did with Eleven and Max's friendship, Robin and Steve, and Mike and Will. Season 3 might not have been the strongest plot-wise, but character-wise, I don't think the story would have been satisfying if it had ended in season one.

[@llevin222]

I think it just comes down to which is more important to the viewer, character development or plot. I have always been more of a character development person myself but that might be where we differ.

[@drake000666]

This is why I turned to Korean and Japanese TV shows, they often do a set number of episodes and they have what you can see is a beginning, middle and end and they do not try and tack on more or just keep it going till you want to kill the cast :)

[@mmaantj]

Love alarm season 2 🤧🤧

[@will_of_europa]

Similarly this is why I cannot stand never ending shounens. Most people who start them fall in love up until about episode 70-100 when it becomes clear the show only exists at that point to pad viewer time and make money. I think One Piece is on 700 something? I refuse to watch anything over 80 episodes. 50 is great and 25 is a good sweet spot. Shows also have a similar inverse issue where they plan for 30+ but then get told to cram it all into 25 episodes.

[@sahanwickramarachchi1505]

@@will_of_europa One Piece guy has it all planned out tho like everything links together and it only gets better. The first half of OP led up to the war of the best in ep 500 and the build up was worth it. Its a huge and really well developed world. It just has bad pacing because it has so many characters and so many linking plots but once its over it will be amazing to binge watch/read.

[@whathell6t]

@@sahanwickramarachchi1505 Actually! He's referring to Tokusatsu media. Mainly the Kamen Rider franchise and Ultraman franchise which is divide into the Showa, Heisei, and Reiwa.

[@jasonquigley2633]

Absolutely agree. I mostly watch kdrama these days.

[@andrewjames5910]

Every time you showed a clip of Glow it was like you stabbed me in the heart. They set up an amazing season 4 and Netflix pulled the plug. The premature cancellation of shows really annoys me. Rather than give a show a chance to finish properly we get an incomplete arc whereas other shows drag on indefinitely.

[@Noblemile2]

And then when they asked if they could at least finish it with a movie or something Netflix was like "lmao nah"

[@adisonlandon9883]

Glow was one of my favorite shows. Ugh!

[@JulianJohnJunior]

@Edmonton Man What are you on about? Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling was a real thing. It didn't come from My Name is Earl.

[@EnitVal]

You should really look into and talk about a new trend in TV show endings. Both the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and Supernatural end with protagonists accepting death in borderline suicidal ways, while the show frames it as a good thing. It’s depressing , unsatisfying, and dangerous to viewers.

[@Lunabyes]

Sabrina didn't accept death in a suicidal way at all. She had to sacrifice herself to save the universe, and she wasn't even sure if she would actually die. She didn't die because she wanted to, or because she had accepted it, she died as a consequence for saving the entire universe she fucked up in the first place. She wasn't accepting death, she was accepting responsibility.

[@inferiorinferno8859]

@@Lunabyes I agreed. I'll admit, I'm not a fan of reboots andd havent wattched Chilling Adventures, but the ending you describe reminds me of the finale of the Valentina Hellebel bookseries which is a book series about a teenage witch called Valentina, it's a Dutch children's horror series with a similar demographic as R.L Stine. She also doesn't want to die, but she is only a newbie witch who doesn't has a full coven yet, etc, and taking down this ancient god whom her coven accidentally released, it's just too much for her.

[@PapaphobiaPictures]

@@Lunabyes but Nick who literally killed himself to be with her...

[@TopTwom]

Supernatural's ending really was depressing. They effecively remove a controlling, abusive person from thier lives only to almost immediately die because without that abuser they aren't "special" anymore. I mean... wow.

[@PapaphobiaPictures]

@@TopTwom I hated Supernatural's ending. It was SO bad

[@braveasanoun5732]

The Good Place imo is the perfect ending. What's at the end? Who knows, but go when it's you're time and be kind before you do.

[@BiologicalClock]

That show ended as perfectly as it possibly could have. It closed at the very point it would have started to overstay its welcome, and was JUST bittersweet enough to make viewers tear up, while still providing a positive and satisfying conclusion.

[@braveasanoun5732]

@@BiologicalClock I agree. There's very, very few shows that I think are genuinely perfect, but The Good Place is. I wouldn't change a single thing.

[@inferiorinferno8859]

Considering that awful Winx reboot going on, I am going to talk about the OG cartoon, and how that show was also only meant to last for 3 seasons (and the quality definitely dropped going on with S4).

[@jackochainsaw]

Just thank the Gods they haven't made bad adaptions of Mask, Ulysses 31, Galaxy Rangers or Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors (yet).

[@pedrovinicius9753]

You mean amazing Reboot*

[@ceve]

Never saw the live action reboot but I agree about the drop of quality in and after S4. But rewatching the first three seasons I realised the writing in them wasn't as good as I remembered. I wish they could do a proper animated reboot but well

[@betulla96]

@@pedrovinicius9753 Nope, it's horrible

[@hylke45]

This video in a nutshell: You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

[@ender7278]

I'm glad you recognized the value of Stranger Things Season 2. So many people say it should've ended with Season 1 and that bugs me because Season 2 feels like a natural continuation and conclusion to Season 1.

[@bradbowers963]

"Dexter" should have ended after 4 seasons but dragged on for 4 more to an awful finale. A season 9 revival is coming out. The original showrunner is returning to "fix" the ending. We'll have to wait and see.

[@crimsonmask3819]

Dexter's last season started with a lot of clues that Dexter was dying, probably drowning, and in a sort of purgatory (heading for a _closure_ ending). But then, midway, it seems that some folks with a bunch of visual ideas they'd been hanging on to since the beginning took the reins and we got what we got. I've seen a fairly involved theory about Lost's final season having been hacked up and reconfigured in a similar way. Sometimes the nature of production, with hundreds of people, relationships, and contracts involved, just doesn't allow things to go through cleanly.

[@maxmillar2723]

Yeah I couldn't finish it, it was interesting for a bit but couldn't really continue from the start of season 7

[@juniorthethird08]

Rita’s death would have been the perfect ending. It had a feeling of finality. The ultimate punishment for his character.

[@maxmillar2723]

@@juniorthethird08 Definitely

[@GraysonJStedmanjr]

I actually stopped watching after season 4. Watched every episode from the very first religiously up till then. After Rita died I felt the story had been told and just didn't bother continuing. So in my mind the story ended well.

[@danielwinch2986]

After Lost aired, networks tried different projects to find the next "mystery" series for audiences to obsess over (Flashforward, Revolution, Manifest) but have so far been unable to capture that lightning in a bottle.

[@bobbyshaddoe3004]

Its not an easy thing to do. Because on the one hand you dont want the mystery to be solved too soon... But you dont wanna drag it out to the point where it tries the audiences patience. In addition the pay off has to be worth the build up.

[@cyberneticbutterfly8506]

After Lost aired directors all wanted to tell the disgusting "human story" and this beame the goto talking point for directors. Those of us who like adventure, mystery, etc watch shows for ideas not the "human story" AKA melodrama with a mystery skin/fantasy skin/sci fi skin. We tolerate the human story but we watch it in spite of it not because of it.

[@arthurpendragon8192]

Did you forget about Fringe?

[@danielwinch2986]

@@arthurpendragon8192 No I consider that to be more like X-Files than the other shows mentioned.

[@EB-bl6cc]

Flashforward was pretty good honestly (not Lost good, but well above average for sure) just didn't get ratings unfortunately. Much much better than the other 2 you mentioned

[@DoctorDex]

The way you segued from the zombie metaphor to The Walking Dead brought a tear to my eye.

[@celticryouma]

Orphan Black is a great example of a show that did right by its creators. Planned for five seasons, ran for five seasons, and its ending just ... *chef's kiss*

[@CourtTV.]

Spinoff is on its way.(asian remake too)

[@TreVader1378]

And game of thrones was the very example of how not to end a show, and to end it terribly awfully badly.

[@loxodoncyclotis1823]

If anything GoT had the opposite problem. It would have taken at least 9-10 full-length seasons to bring the show to a satisfying conclusion, but Benioff and Weiss decided they'd had enough and tried to wrap it up with a short run of action-packed episodes, getting rid of everything that made it great in the process.

[@TreVader1378]

@@loxodoncyclotis1823 also if you look at season 8, it only had 6 episodes, and 3 of them were set up episodes, maybe even 4.

[@JulianJohnJunior]

Benioff and Weiss only wanted to adapt the Red Wedding. Seriously, that is why they wanted to make it into a TV show. Not because they loved the books and characters. They literally wanted to have an iconic moment for TV and that's it. Game of Thrones would've been better if Bryan Cogman took over the reigns and ran the show after D&D had what they wanted.

[@SourRobo8364]

I'm eternally grateful the way Breaking Bad ended. Each season got better and better with a fantastic ending.

[@neutrallynonsensical3477]

Same for me with Bojack Horseman, it ended so perfectly

[@jdg9825]

I always found Lost's finale satisfying tbh, but ig it helps that I binged it all after it came out and didn't have to wait 6 years.

[@MarieAnne.]

I've noticed that on average, people who binge the show seem to be generally more satisfied with the ending than those of us who watched it as it came out. Personally, I wasn't sure of the ending at first, but I've grown to love it. I think part of it is that when you spend a long time getting to the end, you form very strong opinions on how the show should go, and become very attached to the theories you've formed.

[@MrGreaves]

Me too! Can’t lie

[@tylermacready7199]

People still think the ending was "it was purgatory the whole time" and I always get enraged because that's just flatly incorrect

[@MrGreaves]

@@tylermacready7199 exactly. My friend who hasn’t even watched the show thinks it ended with “they were dead the whole time”. Which just plainly isn’t how it ended at all. I mean Christian Shepherd literally says “the most important part of your LIVES” when explaining everything at the end.. come on guys :/

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

I watched Lost over the course of six seasons and I loved the ending. By season 2, I knew full-well that they were never going to answer all of the questions they brought up, so I wasn't disappointed by that. Throughout the run of the show, I cared about the characters and found the storylines interesting and compelling (regardless of how crazy things got!) For me, the finale was deeply satisfying and moving.

[@trickyricky4731]

I recently finished watching Blackadder and it had a fantastic series finale. I don't think anyone expected a comedy series to have such a dark ending

[@bharatkrishna7082]

Yup, It was a good way to go out.

[@thomasdee1980]

Blackadder was very smart as each series was self contained and they essentially rebooted it with each new season. The only downside with the ending of Blackadder goes forth is that they realised they could never top it and so felt doing any more series would cheapen it which is a bit of a shame as everyone wanted more. Of course, ending it when everyone wants more is the dream

[@onlyrevolutions2010]

I loved the ending of Mad Men. They didn't try to make you think Don had really changed after his journey. In the end, he did find something spiritual, but of course he found a way to commercialize and exploit it. But...that's Don, and you're kind of happy that he was able to come back with such an iconic ad. It's the only happy ending that character could have possibly found.

[@sierra750]

Came here looking to see if someone had mentioned Mad Men

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

That's if he did. It's not 100% confirmed he's the one who comes up with "I'd like to teach the world to sing".

[@Tigerwolf102onYoutube]

The Truman Show explores the question of “how is it going to end,” very well

[@thephantomdiver]

The GOT comments were as expected. 😂 To be fair to Harbo Wholmes, I don't think any of us thought that show as gonna some how destroy its entire reputation in such a short span of episodes.

[@jonweman6128]

Do you really think GoT was still good at the end of S7?

[@RedFloyd469]

I had expected Disney princess story level of writing, after the farce that was season 7. With none of the main good guys dying, the bad guys getting a cliché end, more "pirate fuckboy that is nothing like book Euron" and a whole BUNCH of plot armor and some more female empowerment pandering. What we got was all that, except all of the clichés were turned into "subversions" that weren't clever, contradicted the source material, ruined character development arcs, ruined character personalities to the point of unrecognizability, and an ending that was laughably stupid, rather than satisfying. Let's just say GOT season 8 EXCEEDED my expectations of it being bad. It straight up took a big ol' dump on everything the show had once stood for. Seasons 5-8 aren't canon anyway. I treat everything from season 1-4 as golden, save for some moments, and everything after that as fanfiction. It's the only way not to be too disappointed with it.

[@adamboczek4880]

To be fair, GoT started going steadily downhill after season 4, which was still good but already showed signs of what was about to come. Dumb and Dumber are hacks, it's as simple as that.

[@tommunist10]

Upon rewatching GoT, it was never really good; it just has high production values, attractive actors, and a fleshed out world. It was always absolutely filled to the brim with tropes, and it was clearly meant for teenaged boys for the first five or so seasons and teenaged girls for the last 3.

[@jonweman6128]

@@tommunist10 Oh no, I absolutely disagree about S1-4. Characters like Tyrion or Stannis do you think they were cliche??? There was a certain amount of cheese (especially with nudity) but it also had a plot where characters acted logically from the point of view of each one and consequences were believable, thanks to following mostly GRRM:s books - how many Hollywood movies and big budget series can you say that the plot really holds up to scrutinity in this way? It had some great dialogue with tons of memorable phrases, some of it, surprisingly, original to the series. Even in S5-6 it had some good parts, but the drop in quality was really steep. Meanwhile production values in S1 at least were not actually that high, you can tell in the Battle of the Blackwater that they don't quite have the budget for something of that scale.

[@RonniePoleCasper]

ah shit, theres gonna be a season 2 of queens gambit isnt it

[@carlosmarcelovellosowendt4598]

Now, she's gonna have to play 3D Chess with aliens in order to stop them from invading Earth.

[@jerinjoseph596]

@@carlosmarcelovellosowendt4598 oh wait that's enders game 😅

[@biz0unc3]

Oh you people are actually this dumb.

[@nicholasbrassard3512]

It was a limited series..even distegarding that, she won the world championship. How the hell could they even top that? O.o

[@niamhha9014]

My pre-teen self was obsessed with Pretty Little Liars. I’ve always hated it when twist villains are introduced in the last episode (especially in a mystery show). There was no point in us trying to figure out who A was then. Also, the family trees got so messed up by the end. I lost track of how many characters were secretly related. Remember when CeCe turned out to be Alison’s sister (and she knowingly dated her brother)... but oh wait, she’s actually Spencer’s sister who’s mum is actually Alisons’s mums secret twin sister who also gave birth to Spencer AND her secret twin, the final A.

[@Rougarou99]

Not to mention the fact that the villains ended up being either so mundane that they did not arouse suspicion because there was no logical reason to be suspicious, like CeCe, were sympathetic to the point that villainy is a complete subversion or even betrayal of their characters like Mary Drake, or were just people who no one suspected because they literally did not exist before their reveal, apart from too subtle to notice "clues" like Alex Drake. Also, it never made sense how Rosewood had so many recently abandoned factories and plants for such a heavily white-collar, on-the-rise small town.

[@527398]

@@Rougarou99 СеСе makes no sense, because she clearly wasn't intended to be A in the first place. There were a lot of rumors about who A is, and, apparently, fans made the right guesses... which led to the mess we have (they had to change it to make us go "wow, I could've never guessed!"). And I didn't even bother with the time leap, as this whole plotline is useless and excessive.

[@LordZontar]

"Was there anything Lost didn't do?" Yep. An episode where the characters come out of the jungle and we hear a voice yelling "Skipper! Professor!"

[@anajulia509]

Pll was my teenager's bigest addiction and gosh.... it got bad so fast. I remebered most of the fans just wanted it to end already but NOOOO lest give them another season even if they dont want or need

[@AngstyRat]

I feel like discussions about the number of seasons in a TV show can go one of two ways, either "This show was so good it deserved a million more seasons 😭" or "Ugh, this show should have stopped after the first 5 episodes, the story just drags on from there 😒" and honestly it's just exhausting.

[@futurestoryteller]

I think this is a big part of my issue with this video. It's natural for just about any show to lose viewership as it progresses, people very quickly say "I think we can all agree it's not as interesting as it used to be." Like, I think we can all agree that your average person has a short attention span, the fact that a lot of people did or do anything does not make it an objective truth. There are people on here pointing out that ending Stranger Things on Season 2 seems fairly arbitrary when you consider that it had a similarly conclusive ending in Season 1. Outside of exploring minute details you're really just talking about how long you're willing to tolerate the expectations the show has put upon itself. I mean, despite its philosophical moral dilemma premise Sopranos had so much contempt for closure and traditional story structure that it's almost more about nothing than Seinfeld is, but it was on for 86 episodes. If a show can meander so much that it's basically part of the aesthetic, and then end with one of the most controversial cliffhangers of all time and still be called a masterpiece by internet essayists with unearned confidence, for an ending that's biggest selling point is "nothing happens" it's kind of suspect to narrow the hazily defined problem down to TV shows simply "overstaying their welcome" I guess I'm forced to say I'm not trashing the ending of The Sopranos. I'm just saying it's hilarious to see people with the benefit of hindsight, heap all of this praise onto the the ending and uncritically examine how that decision relates to the rest of the show, and how that relates to the rest of the argument. Sopranos went on for "six" seasons without going "Maybe we should put Carmela's head in a box" Gotham couldn't even go one season without that kind of crap every ten minutes.

[@luciferriding2762]

@@futurestoryteller "I think we can all agree that your average person has a short attention span" almost posted exactly the same thing myself. Also hindsight is always hilarious in these situations, especially when you tie it up with how mob mentality popular culture seems to be about what is good and what is bad and what is too long/just long enough. It's all arbitrary. I fight people constantly about Heroes, for example. It is far from popular to say you like more than one season of that show, because EVERYONE watched it, and then 90% of people quit watching it and had to make up a reason why that was more profound than "people told me some other show is good so I'm watching that instead". It just wasn't fashionable to keep watching and being invested in it, and so it becomes this popular - the cult experience - to as you put it "narrowly define the problem as "the show overstayed its welcome"". Just like the Sopranos ending, or the Lost one, there's a cultish hindsight of unsubstantiated opinion applied to it, and most of it by people who never watched the rest of the show, or tuned in only for the finale.

[@futurestoryteller]

@@luciferriding2762 Well, I hate to arbitrarily disagree with someone who went out of their way to agree with me, but people definitely didn't arbitrarily quit watching Heroes. I don't know if you were around when it was on, but nothing gets as big as that was and just kicks the bucket all of a sudden, for no real reason. Or because it's "fashionable." You know, it's like an undisputed Heavyweight champion: it's theirs to lose. Don't get me wrong fans who were ready to jump ship early didn't help matters any, but the show had way bigger problems than overstaying its welcome and they absolutely blew themselves up. I followed the production of that show religously at the time, not in hindsight, and their biggest problem as far as I can tell was listening to "fan input" this was in the early reign of social media. I can't say if anybody has learned their lesson on this but: the fandom is not a focus group, and catering to them will just make your show bland, or spastic, you can't make a perfect show, so you have to let people complain about it. As far as their storytelling missteps, they did much better with Heroes Reborn, but by then they had lost too much good will. People really were biased against it by then.

[@luciferriding2762]

@@futurestoryteller No you're 100% correct, they listened to fan input to the point of the creator even believing it himself. (I did watch it as it came out, and have watched it many, many times since). At the time it was super experimental with the way it interacted with fans, building up expectations, dropping in hints and easter eggs, but there were other issues in production too, some actors feeling overlooked and getting shitty, and Ventimiglia's relationship with Panettiere blew up in their faces--hell, that fucked up things plenty cause they had to plan things so the two of them would never/rarely be in scenes together. It was a clusterfuck of epic proportions. BUT that said, the quality of many aspects of the show itself, the rhythm of its storytelling/reveals and much of the plotline, though harassed by those issues, did play out nicely in retrospect. Season 3 (and 3.5) and 4 have some really solid stuff going on, and much of it is WAY better than a lot of the trash they put on TV these days, it's just nobody saw it or will ever see it, because the general rule of thumb for anyone checking the series out is "just watch season 1". (which is to say, I still don't think I'm disagreeing at all, what I meant was that a show overstaying its welcome is *never* the only issue at stake. Fans jumping ship early can be an element, creators drinking their own coolaid etc. etc. all kinds of shit goes down)

[@futurestoryteller]

@@luciferriding2762 I don't remember finding much to like in Season 3. Their biggest problems seemed to be with character consistency, which Season 3 was worst at, and is something Bryan Fuller is a self professed obsessive about, and he exited the show fairly early on to pursue other projects. Later when he reappeared for a single episode he flat out said in an interview that he didn't recognize the characters anymore, and then peaced-out immediately. This is a sin largely so unforgivable to me that I generally agree with the sentiment that the only Season worth watching (for sure) is the first one.

[@gerizanocz3388]

Stranger Things didn't even needed the 2nd season. The first one was perfect in itself.

[@skydreamer4225]

True

[@stupidcomment6571]

@charmind Season 2 was pretty good but you are actually the first person i hear that liked S3...

[@ShadowMuppetX]

​@charmind I wouldn't feel bad. One of the first bits of wisdom I was given in my acting/playwriting education was that one can never really know what will resonate with an audience of individuals. There are semi-proven metrics that can tell you that a certain thing will please a large audience, but once you get down to the personal level, people resonate with things for different reasons. You like season 3 because it resonated with you in a way that it didn't for others. That's great. You should like what you like because the reasons you like it are ultimately personal and somewhat out of your control. Your unique personal experience primed you to relate to season three in a way that is uniquely you and you should embrace or even try to understand that rather than feeling self-conscious about it.

[@ShadowMuppetX]

TLDR: Everybody likes things that most people don't because we've all got individual experiences that cause us to relate to different things for different reasons.

[@Ckoz2829]

@charmind Don’t feel bad for liking something. To each their own, ya know?

[@stevebruns1833]

Almost forgot: Babylon 5! One of the first serial dramas, conceived as a 5-year story from the get-go, and they managed to stick the landing.

[@fredhurst2528]

B5's fate was in the air during season 4, what was supposed to happen in S5 was actually condensed into the end of S4 (the battle for Earth.) Many fans, myself included, feel season 5 was good, but not on the same level as the rest of the series.

[@stevedowdy1]

I dunno, I'd put Babylon 5 into the 'gone on too long' category. Due to the network dicking about they wrapped up all the main plot lines at the end of season 4 and could have just ended there, but were then pushed into a fifth season that, watching it again now, just feels tacked on to appease the accountants.

[@ZlothZloth]

@@stevedowdy1 Actually, there's some good stuff in the 5th season. It lets the story explore what happens AFTER the big, emotional conclusion instead of just "and they lived happily ever after." The Day of the Dead was a great episode, too. It's definitely winding down, though, while the examples above tried to go bigger and just ended up looking stupid. (And then B5 hit us with the final episode... holy... that's probably what @Steve Bruns is talking about.)

[@stevedowdy1]

@@ZlothZloth I'm not saying S5 is necessarily bad, just unnecessary in the sense that the show wouldn't feel unresolved if it had ended at S4. In some ways I think the biggest problem with S5 is that it is just one season, so storylines that could have been developed into big dramatic arcs like we had in S1-4 are swiftly resolved in the space of a few episodes. I tend to think the show either went on too long (S5 being unnecessary) or ended too soon (S5 should have been S5-7).

[@wanderinghistorian]

YES! Babylon 5 remains the high-watermark of what I believe a good sci-fi show should be. That was so solid start to finish!

[@kylewollman2239]

This is how I felt with Westworld. I didn't watch the 2nd or 3rd seasons because I felt that the first season ending was so satisfying I didn't want to ruin it.

[@mrbreede]

Breaking bad knew to the T how many seasons and episodes it was going to use. Proof 62 episodes are the atomic number of Samarium, an element that is commonly used to treat lung cancer.

[@nutbastard]

Ok, but if it had ended at 60, that'd be Neodymium, aka MAGNETS, and a similar interpretation of the significance of 60 - about themes of attraction and repulsion - could be made. It could also be interpreted as a nod to the fact that while Walt is the main character, it's just as much Jesse's story.

[@svenleeuwen]

The ending of The Sopranos made me remember a discussion that Tony and Bobby had while fishing where Bobby's greatest fear is being gunned down when he least expects it. Being shot from behind and everything ends without even having the time to even realize it.

[@iSaraSeantae]

It was supposed to ;)

[@Xarfax321]

Yeah, that is my theory of what happened in the sopranos. Tony looked up, BOOM, he's dead.

[@SHallAdiag]

How do you feel about this video now that season three of Stranger Things has aired.

[@HarboWholmes]

I still stand by it. I liked Season 3 (more than Season 2) but it was completely unnecessary, in my mind. It was mostly just a weird amalgamation of the first two seasons, I don't know. It just felt like it wasn't really needed

[@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102]

@@HarboWholmes Season 3 honestly jumped the shark for me.

[@st_z0na]

@@HarboWholmes I think that season 2 has a great ending but I also think that because of it’s success and because it is great, Netflix reaps it

[@tardisglitch547]

@@HarboWholmes how do you feel now that stranger things may be getting at least 5 seasons.

[@futurestoryteller]

@@HarboWholmes Nobody bothers to explain what is ever "needed" by a TV show.

[@tupp686]

You didn't mention the acronym shows NCIS and CSI with all their spin-off franchises. save us please

[@phabiorules]

Ah, I remember the C.S.I shows. It was funny because the series was interesting for creating a mystery show based on actual forensic science, then ended with C.S.I cyber where they had Tony stark level of technology.

[@Nukestarmaster]

I remember I used to like NCIS a lot, but eventually all the characters I liked were no longer part of the cast as the show just continued on.

[@actuallyjc]

How about all the 'Chicago' shows? Chicago PD, Fire, etc. It's like the producers were running out of ideas and went to a kindergarten during class about 'what i want to be when I grow up'

[@tupp686]

@@actuallyjc And the Boston ones, Boston Public went on forever then they cut Boston Legal short mid-series. I think David E. Kelley never knew when to call it quits.

[@theawesomebat1244]

@@tupp686 Not to mention the criticisms or disinterests towards the ‘Power’ spin-off, Star Wars spin-offs, Arrowverse spin-offs, Spongebob spin-offs, Dragon Ball sequels (GT & Super), etc. The Z in DBZ was supposed to mean, “last time”. Heck, CW had to cancel Katy Keene and Netflix had to cancel Sabrina (both of which were spin-offs to Riverdale).

[@LEFT4BASS]

I'm surprised he didn't mention Arrested Development. It might not have been a drama, but it's the best example of a show that had a perfect ending, then kept going.

[@mwimm4958]

Crazy Ex Girlfriend is one of the best ending I've ever seen. It introduces a plot twist that makes you rewatch the whole show adding so much and then completely finishes the story in the most satisfying way. The story is obviously planned from the beginning and I honestly cry thinking about how beautiful that episode is

[@ultinakeley1420]

That's what I was gonna post on a thread here about how CW shows run too long. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend was quality throughout and most of the songs live rent free in my head until the day I die.

[@micahkafka]

I’m not sure how Lost’s ending was ambiguous at all. The middle seasons bloated as they tried to drag it out, but I think the last seasons went exactly like they’d planned it to end.

[@dantodd3737]

"Where LOST tried to be overly clever and smart with its half-baked and ambiguous ending..." The dude simply doesn't know what he's talking about. That or he needs things soon feed to him.

[@majinstrings]

Yeah, LOST's ending was pretty straightforward...Christian pretty much explains it 10 minutes before it ends and yet a ton of people go "So, they were dead the whole time?" I don't understand how so many people are still confused by the ending...when it's over, there's still quite a few mysteries left unsolved but the ending isn't one of them...

[@AnnCooper33]

I don't think the ending was terrible. It made me cry, but I do have some issues with it. The first being that when the characters "cross over" they are only with the people they met on the plane/island and not the other important people in their lives who have died. This is satisfying for the viewer, but doesn't make much sense. The other issue I have is with all the loose ends and plot points that do not get resolved, which I think is just what happens when a show runs for too long. It becomes impossible to do, as is stated in this video.

[@kimberlyl3727]

this guy clearly didnt even watch lost lol

[@wbbigdave]

Let's not forget that Lost was plagued by the writers and artists strike.

[@ravennevermore8173]

This is why I respected "Spartacus" they went out on peek of their popularity, saying they don't want to go on for long time where the show became repetitive.

[@joshuaguenin9507]

didnt the star die?

[@EB-bl6cc]

@@joshuaguenin9507 he died after s1 (guy was soo good as Spartacus, and apparently was an amazing person by all accounts) to cancer or something, but they did 3 or 4 more seasons with a new guy who still did a fairly good job. The main issue with the new guy in my mind, at least initially, was how much less buff he was than the original guy. He gradually buffed up over his seasons, so by the end it wasn't so bad. Although any replacement would have been worse, simply because the original guy was great and it was always going to be jarring simply replacing the main character and acting like nothing happened lol

[@christianc.2664]

RIP Andy Whitfield. Died of Leukemia

[@ravennevermore8173]

@@joshuaguenin9507 He died from leukemia I think and they recastes him and it had two more seasons. They said they wanted to go on high note and not become repetitive. The prequel season of only few episodes was never planed, they basically made it so people don't lose interest in the show while Andy was getting treatments, however he did not survive. Apparently he was doing well and they planned to continue filming and then he died suddenly.

[@AdamJones-nn7fy]

The writers of stranger things established that stranger things would have a total of 4 seasons. Whether or not it should canonically, is up for debate.

[@tardisglitch547]

They’ve now said there’s gonna be at least 5 or 6

[@icantstopsparkling7450]

@@tardisglitch547 ffs, really? They don’t have anything left to explore

[@pedrovinicius9753]

@@icantstopsparkling7450 they have a lot

[@heromaxpower]

@@pedrovinicius9753 I can’t agree with this when the main monster of season 3 is the same as 2.

[@jonweman6128]

But originally they were not going to reuse the same protagonists every season, only set them in a shared universe with the Upside Down theme.

[@rx7495]

“Westworld” had a perfect ending after just season 1. Should have ended there. Everything after seems lacking in depth.

[@jeremiahsmith916]

Agreed. As soon as I realized the 2nd season is pulling the Ye Olde “Same thing but in an exotic setting” Trick I immediately felt a good chunk of my respect for the show vanishing. I only finished it because I was curious about Man In Black’s story.

[@pmpowalisz]

Strongly disagree, and Dolores is one favorite characters ever. Westworld seasons two an three was where she shined. Long hail the Robot Princess Breaker of Chains!

[@potatolover5436]

I agree. The second and third season could never live up to the first. The first season is one of the best created imo. But the rest ruined it for me :(

[@user-uy1rg8td1v]

The ending of season 1 Westworld didn't even begin to answer the many questions the show asked.

[@rx7495]

@@user-uy1rg8td1v I think it answered the important ones such as the nature of reality and our roles in it.

[@bliixa]

fleabag’s finale is one of my favourites ! it keeps you wanting more while also being cathartic and fulfilling as it is

[@melodyclark1944]

The best ending is if they can fulfill the title of the show. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was no longer the vampire slayer. House MD was no longer a doctor. Sabrina the Teenage Witch was grown up. Boy Meets World met the world.

[@medealkemy]

Yes ! The IT Crowd left the IT department, same with Parks and Rec. The kids from Fresh Meat graduated from uni. And one of my favourites : Ugly Betty is not "ugly" anymore and, more importantly, is her own boss. If How I met your mother had ended on the meet cute between Ted and Tracy, it would have had the same effect. But we all know how it panned out... (Also this shows that even for sitcoms, sticking the landing is hard)

[@frakkintoasterluvva7920]

How was Buffy not a Vampire Slayer?!

[@melodyclark1944]

@@frakkintoasterluvva7920 She was no longer "the" vampire slayer. "The" as in the only one.

[@frakkintoasterluvva7920]

@@melodyclark1944Definite article doesn't imply there is just onr, but OK, let's assume it does: So, you're saying the show should have changed its name after season 1?

[@ghostofdurruti]

I feel like Buffy is kind of a counterexample to a point this video makes... it shows that a series can "end" perfectly well midway through, keep going, and stay good. By my count there were at least four season finales of Buffy that would have worked as series finales--1, 3, 5, and of course the actual series finale, 7--and yet because the writers continued to have good ideas for stories to tell after the conclusions of each of these arcs, no real seasonal rot set in. I know people differ on which of these arcs is their favorite, and some people wish the show actually *had* ended with season 3 or 5, but there's nowhere near the general consensus that the show's quality dove at a particular point that exists with shows like Supernatural.

[@robmcclory5491]

it hurts how the dark crystal age of resistance was wrongly cancelled after one season. the story wasn't finished and will never have a televised conclusion. If you haven't seen the dark crystal age of resistance then omg you've got to its bloody amazing

[@jamesporter571]

I'm still salty about that, I waited all 2020 for S2's release date. Hopefully Netflix will open their eyes after the Winx disaster and give us the Garthim Wars

[@sebastianstroud-klein5332]

Why would I invest myself in a show that will never have a conclusion? I’m no masochist 😂

[@robmcclory5491]

@@sebastianstroud-klein5332 It has got a conclusion. age of resistance is a prequel. step 1 of 3. the movie is 3 and step 2 (although won't be shown on tv) will be explored in comics and novels. a must watch for any sci-fi/fantasy lover

[@jackochainsaw]

Problem is, with Dark Crystal age of resistance, it was a prequel. You know exactly where it will lead, you know that in the end there'll only be 2 gelflings left and most of the podlings will be dead. I liked it but I'm not a fan of prequels, I always feel like they diminish the overall lore. Case in point; the Kessel Run, It sounded amazing when you didn't know what it was, but was reduced to something very average when you got to it. Case in point; Nick Fury and how he lost his eye, but the less we say about Captain Marvel the better. No more prequels, only sequels, and even then, the fewer the better.

[@robmcclory5491]

@@jackochainsaw anyone who's seen age of resistance will tell you it enhances the source material not diminishes it. I beg you, it wont be a mistake

[@Gabriel87100]

Supernatural ended after Season 5 ended for me, I even made my friend watch it with me stopping on season 5, which is a pretty good closure and a bittersweet finale. I left it up to her to watch the newer seasons if she wished so and she didn't, because the story was *just fine* the way it was up until that point.

[@lizzfrmhon]

We as the audience should not watch anymore when shows start to get crap. Let’s teach them to make good stories that start and end. As long as the stories are good we will watch for as long or short a time the story needs to be to be great. As evidenced by the recent Justice League Snyder’s cut. Sometimes longer is better, sometimes it’s not.

[@LEFT4BASS]

This is what I did with CW superhero shows. They all went from classics in season 1 to unwatchable by season 3 or 4.

[@legoboy-ox2kx]

Ending a popular show prematurely is even worse though. Limitless and Firefly are the epitome of this to me.

[@legoboy-ox2kx]

@@lordarcalinox8582 I haven't seen that one, but I'll watch it now!

[@akeleven]

No. Better to end when everybody still likes it then to watch it to send into binality.

[@squallofthedai]

@@akeleven: Only Firefly didn't end because people felt that it was a good stopping point, it was canceled. You'd be generally right, but the example doesn't fly.

[@neutrallynonsensical3477]

Hannibal too (possibly Mindhunter as well)

[@SteveBakerIsHere]

Firefly is an oddity because it was wildly popular - but within a too-small audience. The movie ending was OK-ish...it wrapped up the story - but everyone who loved it felt that it didn't need to be ended yet...it had MUCH more to say and explore.

[@vonspeedwagon1466]

I liked the ending of Community’s Ass Crack Bandit episode. Also the wholes mystery of who is the bandit with the ending showing all of the characters showing things that could kind of prove they are the bandit which leaves who the bandit is as a complete mystery that even the creators probably don’t know.

[@joshuaf4361]

Abed

[@vonspeedwagon1466]

@@joshuaf4361 nah, I don’t think that Abed is the acb

[@stephjovi]

This was made before the last season of GoT and the good place right? Because the good place is a good example for a great ending and GoT well we all know. I think even if you've never watched it you've heard people freak out about the ending

[@sepulpedro]

BoJack is one current reference on how to actually end a show masterfully

[@Arturo-Peredo]

Heroes, a TV Show I love, had that same problem of "Upping the ante" ever since Season 1 ended. And the show was actually meant to be an anthology series, changing every season, and every now and then you would see characters from past seasons. But instead they had the same characters scramble to stop a world-ending threat every season.

[@darcybhaiwala7057]

The Walking Dead is manageable if you watch seasons 6-8 on double speed. Season 9 (Angela Kang as showrunner replacing Scott Gimple), was quite enjoyable I have to admit, but I'm a completionist too so I have no choice. I have to give credit as well to Schitts' Creek to ending where it did.

[@keskonriks710]

Examples of shows that ended perfectly include: the good place, dark, doctor who and merlin

[@t.l3846]

How did doctor who?

[@keskonriks710]

It didn't. That's the whole point. The perfect ending for Doctor Who is no ending because Doctor Who shall never end

[@t.l3846]

@@keskonriks710 not really in the 80s it was extremely rough and then it got axed by the BBC and how it's going now with viewing figures, fandom and critical response it will get cancelled within 5 years and end just like McCoys era did. With a whimper.

[@keskonriks710]

@@t.l3846 it could happen, yes, but I hope it doesn't.

[@gryotharian]

....doctor who has not ended.

[@JediMasterGalaxies]

One of the best endings in TV show endings in history is legitimately just one word. “Bang” Followed by a cut to black and one phrase in text “you’re gonna carry that weight”

[@nutbastard]

See you space cowboy...

[@Hawksphantom]

Lmao you guys are the best

[@ryanclark3935]

After watching the series three times, I finally understood the Lost finale. And it's just about perfect. It's about redemption and the need for human connection. A brilliant message.

[@AnnahHinman]

Supernatural was a perfect example of this. It should have ended after the apocalypse. But it just went on and on and on and on

[@GwydionAE]

Fringe is an example of a show that really wasn't as successful as the higher ups wanted, but they still allowed it one last season to tie everything up, and it worked out so well. It's like the opposite of this, lol. Heroes, on the other hand, had a great first season that wrapped up nearly everything perfectly, but it was such a big hit, that it got stretched out to 4 seasons and a later added miniseries. I think the only reason it didn't go longer was because of how quickly and drastically the quality dropped after the easily self-contained first season (likely in part due to the writer's strike cutting season 2 short, admittedly).

[@skydreamer4225]

Same lol the series have so many potential tho

[@earltecson4847]

I wouldnt mind if Stranger Things was more of an anthology with different stories and characters every season

[@yarpen26]

Especially seeing as these kids can't possibly keep their childish charm for more than just a couple of seasons.

[@followthemoney1466]

Agreed...we know there are more children, they could use a variety of powers and locations to shake it up...and yeah, kids grow up fast

[@Mofapilot]

I liked all seasons so far, but they should end it now, after the group is split up.

[@salvaslicker]

Six Feet Under is hands down the prime example of masterful closure

[@weezeuse]

YES. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the video.

[@Alphabunsquad]

Leftovers ending is incredible. Damion lindleloff clearly learned from lost and didn’t push the show to far. Helped that it was just popular enough for them to control when it ended

[@GamerModz123]

I prefer the korean style of television. Most shows are designed like traditional stories with a beginning, middle, and end. They dont just praddle on.

[@TalysAlankil]

the mentions of game of thrones made me go "huh?" until i looked at the upload date

[@TLChivz]

I think that Prison Break is miles and away the worst example. I mean, end of Season 1....they break out of the Prison, the whole point and premise has been achieved. Then stretching stuff out for another 4 seasons? Sure, a few episodes of them on the run is fine, could have closed Season 2 with the an acquittal and bang, it's done. But another three seasons on top? Completely unjustified.

[@edgarnello9165]

Netflix shows feel like they could be a 2 hour movie with how much plot actually happens in 10 one hour episodes

[@josephn1000]

What was ambiguous about Lost’s ending? It was clearly established that after the characters died they met up in a purgatory so they could go to the afterlife together.

[@lilyduck4538]

This is honestly a huge reason I have all but abandoned american tv. I am a story person first, not a show person. I'm so tired of CONCEPT shows were it's all about 'a zombie doctor' or 'if lucifer an ok guy' and they push the concept to go for seasons and seasons when the STORY (if there ever was one) has died long ago. I mostly watch international stuff now, captions with full stories are still better then my language with nothing to say

[@moss_quartz]

exactly! supernatural has this problem as well, "two brothers who hunt monsters" just turned into 15 seasons of convoluted sub-plots.

[@lilyduck4538]

Yes, supernatural is a PRIME example because it's concept was good but the story has died 6 seasons ago and there is no possible way to give him higher stakes or a meaningful ending except by killing both of them. And that's just sad because it used to be one of my favorite shows.

[@ZZPikachu]

@@lilyduck4538 Supernatural was another show that was only planned to be five seasons and it really shows tbh

[@michaelkean5969]

Lucifer is still going strong tho gets better with every season.

[@actuallyjc]

Try Hannibal. It's on Netflix, only 3 seasons and I think the ending was really satisfying. It's a 'concept' show with a great storylinr.

[@BaloonBoy7]

Some of the best endings in Television (in My opinion obviously) are the good place, The It crowd and Star Trek Deep Space nine. They end with both full closure and minimal possibility of a retcon next series.

[@tom-tom2905]

Mr. Robot was able to pull off both versions of the ending. While being able to tie the main story up in a nice bow, there were also other things left unanswered and left up to interpretation.

[@Itaketoomanypics]

i loved everything on how they ended it

[@AlbertoFolres]

It is know my favourite ending, taking the throne from 6 Feet Under

[@699Kyle699]

Mr. Robot busts nut

[@laumay7364]

That show became so dark I never got to the ending. I just couldn't stand it anymore.

[@TheDeekins]

Mr Robot's ending immediately comes to mind as a masterclass in ending a much-loved series. Showrunners should take notes.

[@inkscratch]

The ending to Six Feet Under is still the most iconic of all time

[@baalirock8727]

Came here thinking this... but you can definitely make the argument that the show ran for a few Seasons too long. That ending is incredible... but they really could have ended at Season 4 or 5.

[@inkscratch]

@@baalirock8727 I agree, towards the end I started getting a little annoyed and things just felt rushed or out of character.

[@baalirock8727]

@@inkscratch The transformation of everyman to Jerk-ass Nate is not something I particularly enjoyed.

[@theDoctorwitTardis]

Season 3 of Stranger Things was an utter disappointemt. "Hey what if we had an evil group open up a portal to the upside-down and try to exploit it for their own ends?" "Haven't we done that already" "Yeah, but this time it's the Soviets, so it's completely different!"

[@jamesporter571]

"Also let's break up the power couple Eleven & Mike because boys are stupid!" "Hey that's a great idea, let's make all the boys in the show stupid!" "And let's not forget that sister subplot S2 had, oh wait! I mean we should forget that subplot!"

[@futurestoryteller]

You both realize that Stranger Things was a cut and paste pastiche of every 80's movie, and that every season follows in that tradition by being a cut and paste sequel pastiche of every 80's movie sequel. Soviets are the bad guys because Soviets have to be the bad guys eventually, just like Rocky IV. Making basically the same movie but bigger is the 80's movie mantra. It's like everybody embraced the nostalgia and then forgot what they were reminiscing about was actually like.

[@halloweenfriday]

That’s EXACTLY my problem with Season 3! It’s as if the Duffer Brothers have run out of new ideas.

[@autisticduck3071]

I personally expected it to be a connected universe with metal gear