How Chibnall Crafted His Greatest Ever Finale

[@HarboWholmes]

patreon go brr www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

[@RetroDragon217]

Hello Harbo, you know Chrisy boy crafted a good finale called exit wounds?

[@VuddyProductions]

HARBO IT'S BEEN A YEAR WHERE IS CHILDREN OF EARTH/!1//1?!/1/11/1//???!/?!/!/1?!/?!/!??/1?!

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

The Death's of Tosh and Owen (for the second time) still hit hard no matter how many times I rewatch it. Seeing them come to terms with their deaths is just heartbreaking, Tosh especially as she completely lets the tears flow. What works about their deaths is they aren’t then swept aside in following episodes they still have an influence over the series and their characters.

[@thejokestore6213]

I think I speak for all of us when I say that absolutely cannot wait for the children of earth review

[@leviroch]

The day Torchwood went from 'fun but darker dr who spinoff' to 'holy fucking shit this is actually amazing. . . '

[@alim.9801]

I think I speak for literally only myself when I say I hope there's a miracle day video bc I would looove to see that lol

[@Slowburn_-lk4oh]

Still waiting

[@thejokestore6213]

@@Slowburn_-lk4oh yep

[@CashelOConnolly]

Well we’re still waiting 🙄

[@bspink74]

The most brilliant/tragic part of Tosh and Owen’s deaths to me was that if they had been in each other’s places, they would have been perfectly fine. Tosh could’ve stopped the meltdown no problem, and the gunshot would’ve messed Owen up, but he would’ve still survived.

[@VeracityLH]

Oh wow.... I never thought of that. Presumably the shot wouldn't have even slowed Owen down--he didn't feel it when he sliced his hand. And if Tosh died at the nuclear station at least it would have been quicker, unlike Owen who had to slowly watch his body decompose. Had it not been for the Weevils, it would have been Tosh at the nuclear station. Wow.

[@izzyhuskison1630]

I've always thought about how if the two events didn't happen simultaneously they would of lived as well, if Tosh wasn't incapacitated she would of been there faster to tell Owen what to do in time and if Owen was there at the hub or he had stopped the meltdown he could walk tosh through how to save herself. Ive never thought about the if the roles were reversed

[@tehcraftydragon]

Tosh's death especially has always stayed with me ever since I first saw it. I remember seeing the effect of the light in her eyes fading out to nothing and I guess it just hit me as a really effective way to show that she was gone.

[@oricalu448]

Owen's death had the same impact for me, but for different reasons. The way he finally accepted his death, especially after his entire "dead" arc, was so perfect.

[@kyleoneill4619]

I remember Tosh and Owen's deaths having such a massive impact on me as a kid, because I think it was the first time I'd watched a show where more than one lead was just killed off with no chance of return. Chibnall really hit his peak here, huh? Also that brief clip we saw leaves me with one question, any chance of a Primeval recap series???

[@leviroch]

Fuck I love primeval. . . I can wholeheartedly blame that blonde chick for my taste in women. . .

[@Reirek]

“Because you’re breaking my heart” That line hurts so much

[@alternatethirteenth5594]

Honestly, I love Owen as a character but I also loved Tosh. And I knew the deaths were coming when I first watched it and yet... I was sad when they went, but what got me to start crying was the computer message from Tosh

[@user-jn1wm3tb8v]

Tosh is the only one I like. Also it's *you.*

[@alternatethirteenth5594]

@@user-jn1wm3tb8v It is!

[@VeracityLH]

I'd highly recommend the first 6 Torchwood novels, which take place during the same times as series 1 and 2. So much good Owen and Tosh in there. Twilight Streets also stars Bilis Manger. The first 3 novels are also available on audio with the actors narrating.

[@STADATS]

I absolutely adore the last scene or so of this episode. I think the video message does a good job of taking what could be really stale in the whole "dead person leaves behind one final message, giving everyone closure" trope, because not everyone has closure after this. It doesn't feel like a video someone recorded after they died. There's a disconnect between Tosh being kind of chipper and everyone else being absolutely heartbroken. It makes the scene feel so much more real and so much more heartbreaking. I also love when the remaining members of the torchwood team have to do one final log out for Tosh and Owen. It's a really small thing, but it perfectly captures that feeling of losing someone and viewing everything from around the time of their death as some final moment. Like looking back at an old text and knowing you'll never get another text from that person. It's something so small but perfectly captures my feelings from every time I've ever lost someone. When Chibnall is good, he is so damn good

[@Shay96]

Basically, Chibnall can write some amazing drama, so long as he's not given free reign.

[@booradley8895]

Broadchurch was an amazing drama which consisted of no syfy which might explain it

[@Ben-vf5gk]

He *did* have free reign here. He was Head Writer and Co-producer of Torchwood. Even on Dr Who he had free reign, RTD has said he never edited Chibnall's scripts. He left Torchwood S2 pretty much in Chibnall's hands.

[@Billy_Hughes]

No it's when he dosent have an agenda

[@Ben-vf5gk]

@@Billy_Hughes Can you tell me what Chibnall's agenda is supposed to be? Cause between Rosa and Spyfall Part 2 I think any message he could trying to get across is extremely muddled.

[@sierra1513]

@@Ben-vf5gk these types will see a woman of colour on the street and think the road has some kind of nefarious agenda

[@stevenhale2935]

When they box up the personal effects of owen and tosh, the glasses, the lab coat, and Tosh's video sign off are all so heartbreaking and utterly fantastic at the same time

[@VeracityLH]

There's a scene in one of the TW novels where Tosh is spotted at the Hub late one night. I can't remember which team member overhears her....something about a toaster... Such a small thing but it made me cry.

[@johannvongenerico9487]

Small thing, but it's pretty decent casting for Grey, him and Jack do look like siblings

[@ibtunesoriginals2629]

He was a terrible actor though tbh

[@jordanclark4635]

@@ibtunesoriginals2629 yeah, great look alike, shit actor

[@Silver-rx1mh]

@@jordanclark4635 With a semi dubbed voice. lol

[@jeckjeck3119]

Season 2 finale shattered my hearts. Season 3 finale burned my soul to ash.

[@MyBelovedGhostAndMe]

Season 4 finale reduced me to dust after 2 and 3 and because I loved esther

[@thedeliveryboy6178]

I cannot wait to see your reviews on Children of Earth, especially your opinions on the jaw dropping moments in the final two parts.

[@gusmackenzie2361]

I wonder if Harbo is going to record all the Children of Earth reviews at once and split their release over five days, because that’s what the series did

[@BEE-oz7yd]

Eait was the whole thing really aired in only 5 days?!

[@markmellor4822]

Something I don’t see anyone mention is that jack freezes grey in the base, but in s3 that base is destroyed so by that assumption is grey actually dead now ?

[@PathsUnwritten]

*I can't get past the fact that Jack's brother looks like a walking sofa cushion.*

[@SkyPerson]

Oh my god you’re so right

[@lovemarlee]

I've literally never been able to watch Tosh and Owen die without crying. Even when watching reaction videos for this episode. Today I thought that, since you were talking over most of the clips that I would be fine, but then you put in "because you're breaking my heart" and I lost it.

[@stevenhale2935]

Same, it's horrendous and the aftermath makes it so real and depressing and almost mundanely routine when set against the backdrop of all the previous torchwood members presented in Fragments

[@VeracityLH]

In the TW novels it's revealed that Tosh is the only operative ever given a public funeral. Owen's body was not retrievable, so Jack honoured them by burying Tosh publicly rather than freeze her in the vaults. Esther got a funeral in MD but the Hub and its vaults were long gone by then.

[@Silver-rx1mh]

God I adored Captain John, beautifully played by the always charismatic James Marsters. Glad he got a little shout out in Who further down the line.

[@takebackconstantinople82]

Where?

[@RieveB777]

Literally finished S2 last night. Torchwood's first 2 series genuinely compete with a fair few of the revived era's series, its just so good imo

[@RieveB777]

Also, how did Chibnall go from this to S11 and 12🤣

[@oricalu448]

@@RieveB777 just you wait until you watch children of earth. It genuinely might be better than season 1 & 2, maybe even any doctor who season.

[@RieveB777]

@@oricalu448 I did today. Personally I think the show lost a bit of it's signature vibe without Owen and Toshiko, but I still really liked it. Without spoiling it, how's S4?

[@oricalu448]

@@RieveB777 dont expect much. I personally quite liked it, but it is definitely flawed and widely regarded as not great.

[@adammyers7383]

Just a thought: with the whole John Barrowman of it all now, it might be interesting to bring back James Marsters instead.

[@Silver-rx1mh]

Ditto! lol

[@redjirachi1]

I should probably point out that either Owen Harper is dead for real and is sent back into the void, or he's still conscious as dust which is basically a void anyway. How he kept any dignity is beyond me

[@jessica23claire]

When I watched this episode, I knew what was coming at the end with Tosh and Owen and I STILL cried consistently for the last 5 minutes of the episode, and just wept through the credits.

[@CashelOConnolly]

“STOP IT!” “WHY SHOULD I!?!” “ BECAUSE YOU’RE BREAKING MY HEART!” 😔😔😔😔😔😢

[@fire_phoenix04]

No one: Big finish production: hey remember that one character who was kinda important but not really and you’ve probably forgotten about, yea, well here’s a multi part audio drama on them

[@alim.9801]

The absolute mad lads

[@Ben-vf5gk]

One thing that bothers me about End of Time is that when watching 10 having a rage out before doing the right thing and getting in the radiation chamber, I can't help thinking "hold on, this is basically Owen's death." One of the few instances someone has borrowed from Chibnall's playbook rather than the other way around.

[@merlin8046]

Thank you for saving my dinner from getting cold while I'm searching for something to watch

[@bloodyneptune]

I found your videos when I was recommended your review of Smith and Jones, and watched everyone since. Im always super excited when one shows up. But literally just now I realized I hadn't gone back and watched the DW ones for series 1-2. I have _so_ much to watch now lol

[@Tortoiz07]

Makes you wonder why Chibnal doesn't make something like this for Doctor Who

[@julieeverett7442]

because Chibby like Moffatt should never fly solo, they write stories under the guidance of another, on their own they write crap!

[@MyBelovedGhostAndMe]

@@julieeverett7442 I disagree. I love moffat. His ideas were very interesting but chibnall? Stick to singles or two partners under another director....

[@AiRsTrIkExXzZ]

When I first saw this episode it was so sad I actually cried since my 2 most favourite characters in torchwood died :(

[@HiperPivociarz]

I want a Harbo Review of the Lady Christina series.

[@MrHJW1995]

Come on son, when are we getting the Children of Earth review?

[@GreenBoxStudio1]

I love these videos and Torchwood, but that dig at the Expanse and Primeval was completely unjustified 😂😂😂

[@peterstark3666]

When you realize the next video will be about Children of Earth.

[@henryg4377]

Ah yes, that infamous Lady Christina series.

[@drneotech7254]

Why not make a series about a one of companion of an already disliked episode

[@HiperPivociarz]

I have a question: Why do you hate the "someone has to die" trope? I feel like it's a good way to have the heroes save the die, but still keep a sense of loss, and change.

[@aionicthunder]

I know why I do, but I doubt Harbo has the same aversion to death in media that I do. If I had to guess why I think Harbo might not like it, I'd probably guess it's so commonplace that it can take him out of the story, especially when it feels contrived

[@HiperPivociarz]

​@@aionicthunder I have the same feeling, and I agree. Sometimes it feels less like a natural outcome of the event, and more like "Damn, I need to write a character death to add stakes" I am afraid that I am guilty of it, cause my story literally states blatantly that in my universe cheating death requires a sacrifice, "Life for a life" is a repeated phrase. SO i feel like I am contriving a lot of deaths by literally stating "Someone has to die"

[@Ben-vf5gk]

@@HiperPivociarz It's the cheapest trick in the book. It's telling that the best thing Classic Dr who could to create character drama was kill characters off (not knocking classic who, it's just that it wasn't the best at character drama). While it can be effective, sometimes appropriate, relying on character deaths without exploring other ways to do drama is less than ideal.

[@KIRSTYnotKRISTY_]

I CANNOT wait for you to review Children of Earth! 🙌🏻

[@msredfox]

I won't lie, when Tosh and Owen died, I was tearing up, this episode was masterfully made

[@ItsConnor]

Yooo that one clip just made realize how much I would for you to review primeval

[@LabradorIndependent]

14:38 jesus i didn't come hear to cry Harbo

[@AspectRatioYT]

I've never met anyone who has seen Fresh Meat. The fact you used it in a video essays has me lining and commenting thirty seconds in. I genuinely love your work and yousingle Handley reignited my love for d who. I used to be die hard but the Clara leaves and returns BS and then an average season 10 I gave up. Recently rewatched and genuinely enjoyed the whole run including season 10s monk storyline

[@fiadhearthpony6177]

Here's some nice fridge horror for y'all So Owens in that state of living death and his entire body has been basically cooked by nuclear waste, is he still y'know, aware? Like he can't feel pain but like is he basically just stuck inside his head?

[@mrdr0161]

No he just died

[@jacksonsweat712]

He would've been completely incinerated and turned to dust, so he would be basically brain dead. Probably like what was happening in Miracle Day

[@scantopup2226]

is it still murder if the victim is already dead?

[@lazulenoc6863]

I got here in just 2 minutes! I really do hope Chibnall learns from his Doctor Who mistakes.

[@tildah4095]

Im so excited to see your review of children of earth, it's my favourite torchwood season

[@mr.fandango6223]

My one issue is how bad of an actor they got for Gray. The writing for him isn’t bad, it’s just his incredibly wooden performance.

[@mrdr0161]

I think that's the point. He's cold and sadistic. He doesn't feel emotions. He doesn't care for anything or anyone

[@Silver-rx1mh]

@@mrdr0161 Nah, I think It's because although he looked the part but imo his performance was weak. If you listen to the sound track I believe Barrowman's voice was overlaid with his to make him sound better and beef it all up.

[@LSvlogging]

You know you gotta review primeval now right since you've clipped it

[@matthewbray764]

I love this episode possibly favourite torchwood episode. I think season 2 is the best season of torchwood like you I believe from out of the rain is the worst of season. Its been some time since I watched season 3 and 4 but as I recall I was not a fan of the different format where they focus on one larger plot instead of loosly connecting it together, the doctor who universe works in a non linear narrative for example I got into the war master big finish dramas and the first box set is his last one before the events of utopia, looking forward to the reviews of the next season.

[@patriksjorgensen]

Can't Wait To Hear Him Talk About Children of Earth. XD

[@dr.zoidberg8778]

That video of Tosh Jesus that's sad

[@Sh00sx]

I loved this episode and the video essay just makes it way better

[@samwitherington8202]

Captain John is great. Probably because hes Spike from Buffy.

[@Silver-rx1mh]

Or 'Rift Spike' as as some of the fanbase back then called him. LOL Seriously I thought JM put in a wonderful performance as per.

[@callumjohnston35]

Will you ever review children of earth? Would love to see your thoughts of it compared to the rest of the series

[@jdg9825]

Always think about how grey explodes in children of earth day one lol

[@nightowl8477]

15:54 nah, Russell never touched a line of any of Chris's scripts. And the initial ideas and concept were Chris's too. It's all Chris, and it's all great.

[@HarboWholmes]

Not necessarily. Richard Stokes was Chibnall's producer for TW S1&2 and Broadchurch S1&2. He's the factor that differentiates Chibnall's good stuff from his weaker stuff (Broadchurch S3 and Doctor Who S11&12), so I'm certain he would have been involved in some aspect

[@dylanringproductions160]

Do you plan to do individual episode reviews for Children of Earth, or just one long video of the season as a whole?

[@CashelOConnolly]

September 2022 still no review of children of earth

[@Bryan-on3uj]

I'm not really sure what to think of this finale bc although it definitely had some great bits, I couldn't really warm to Gray's character (not only bc of the actor, but also bc we haven't had enough time with him imo) + I can't wrap my mind around how Jack could be buried there for so long without it driving him completely insane

[@ChenShaham]

Chibnall is good with human villains and human drama isn't he?

[@user0237]

13:59 that better not have been a dig at Steven's death

[@AiRsTrIkExXzZ]

I’m watching each episode of doctor who and torchwood side by side and watching them at the same time they take place in the universe and I now have to watch this episode 😭😭😭

[@CashelOConnolly]

I hope you enjoyed it,I did. The only bad thing is Lachlan Nieboer (Gray) rotted and wooden performance

[@AiRsTrIkExXzZ]

@@CashelOConnolly I did enjoy and cry at when Owen and tosh died. I have to agree with you too that he was a bit bad

[@thelegendarydarkslayerneo7073]

I love watching these videos

[@jmace2424]

Captain John, or as I like to call him: Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[@jakdakthe5th681]

Due to the bomb (blowing up torchwood) of season 3 it means grey is dead

[@Mono_Nerd_Production]

Children of earth review better be cooking one day

[@spencerblake5713]

I live off your continual hatred of the lady Christina big finish audios

[@flowers4guns]

When are you going to do children of earth? I would love to hear your thoughts

[@tatianamelendez490]

And this is the series finale of Torchwood, as far as I'm concerned. Children of Earth and Miracle Day? I don't know them, are they a cheese? 🧀

[@nathanielfarkas746]

Children of Earth is some of the best doctor who content ever made and I’m praying series 13 being one story will be similar to children of earth

[@tatianamelendez490]

@@nathanielfarkas746 I'm glad so many people liked it, but I didn't. It in fact killed my enjoyment of the series and caused me to abandon it to this day. But hey, you do you, glad you enjoy it. It's just not for me.

[@cmenardmusic]

chibnail is excellent in drama despite his crappy scifi writing

[@laurenjcoates]

I'm actually so scared for you to get to children of earth. day 3 literally haunts me just to think about.

[@jmace2424]

Anyone else think of a car made of peanut butter and chocolate when he said “Reese’s car”? 🤗

[@jackcox6276]

Honestly, chibnalls work on Torchwood and broadchurch gives me faith that the next season of Dr who will wrap everything up nicely

[@VeracityLH]

Yeah, I was excited for him to take over DW based on his work on these two shows. I think he has proven now that there's a huge difference between being a writer, even a headwriter, and being showrunner. Chibnall can do one well, the other not so much.

[@tylerspencer-yates813]

Spoilers for the children of earth: Hold up when the Torchwood hub was blown up does that mean Gray was actually killed whilst in stasis?

[@Bobsmith-xq2pr]

I dont think so actually, according to the audiobooks that I've listened to so far, the hub goes much much deeper then the bomb ever went, and the hub eventually gets rebuilt on those roots.

[@stevenhale2935]

@@Bobsmith-xq2pr the hub got rebuilt? Noice

[@Bobsmith-xq2pr]

@@stevenhale2935 yeah you should listen to the audio books, they are really good

[@TheWiseCollector]

@@stevenhale2935 yh Jack and Gwen rebuild Torchwood

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Stubagful: "Billy, are you crying yet?" kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqPJc3qPmMyHh6M

[@ethant2051]

You showed us a 1 second clip of primeval. You know what you need to do now... :p

[@CashelOConnolly]

Doctor Who will never better this! 🔷💚

[@jmace2424]

I’m not gonna give chibnall credit for this episode because of this giant plot hole: He expects us to believe that someone with 1,800 years and unlimited lives would just stay buried that long? Captain Jack should have been out of that grave in a week.

[@M80-Leviathan]

Can't wait for children of earth

[@jonahcox6672]

Lol kinda thought this episode was kinda bad. I thought Grey's rage against Jack was kind of extreme, Owen and Tosh's deaths a bit daft and the episode as a whole all over the place

[@doghat1619]

Grey is such a bad villain. He's basically a non-factor for the whole story until the last episode, where he shows up an is inexpiably evil and incredibly powerful/resourceful. I could maybe understand him just wanting to kill Jack for good, but to kill potentionally thousands with the damage he did to Cardiff? boring villain.

[@TheBS1000]

Big Finish created a series starring Michelle Ryan and Warren Brown's characters? Wtf

[@tardisnet9487]

Love this finale

[@chadamwilson8268]

The only part I didn't like was the whole thing with Jack and his brother. It felt like a very irrelevant part of the episode compared to John and Tosh and Owen's deaths

[@mingaubr1417]

To this day im still waiting for the children of earth review 😅

[@White.Rabbit.Productions]

I wasn't that happy with Exit Wounds. I'd probably give it an A or a B, but was not happy with Owen and Tosh's deaths. We'd only just really got to know them, their characters had only just developed only for them to be killed off. It seemed like a convenient way to avoid developing them further, as the writers probably didn't know what to do with them anymore (something Chibnall likes to do with Doctor Who too). It sounds like you're praising them being killed off Harbo, but I disagree with this. Another thing I really don't get is Gray as the villain. I just don't get his motivations at all. Yes ok he's mad at Jack, sure, but he has almost no reason to go after any of the rest of the Torchwood team, or even sending Cardiff into a nuclear meltdown. He was obviously able to separate Jack from the group but then he could easily just keep him captive in a torturous situation.

[@mrdr0161]

It's said the in the episode. He wants to destroy everything Jack loved.

[@White.Rabbit.Productions]

@@mrdr0161 Too melodramatic and far-fetched. "I hate you, so I'm going to destroy your hometown." Doesn't really make sense the more you say it in your head.

[@alim.9801]

CAN I GET A HELL YEAAH FOR PC ANDY

[@jackjordan5833]

This made me realise Chibnall is better at writing drama when he is free to delve into darker adult themes. When writing characters for or themes that aren’t edgy, grungy and dark the dialogue is always awful. Chibnall would make a great addition to a writers team but he’s just not a capable show runner.

[@Tyranniod]

Chibnall was so good in torchwood. He just can't write doctor who though.

[@doctorwhomst6459]

ngl... i completely forgot about this episode. i didnt know it was held in such high regard. i dont think i had even heard of it since i finished watching the series

[@CashelOConnolly]

Lachlan Nieboer who played Gray is a terrible actor. He’d be bad in an adult movie 🤣

[@isabellaearnhardt6380]

💙

[@abigailwildlife1322]

bro i'm literally crying at just you talking about this episode its so sad :(((( and don't get me started on children of earth i just avoid THAT episode all together

[@nevem5010]

👍

[@robalexander8065]

Chibnall and great don't belong in the same sentence.

[@mrdr0161]

And yet here we are

[@capnjackgallows3204]

Chinballs could write anything except the obituary of a show

[@connorchenery977]

and it all goes downhill from here. cant wait to see you rip into season 3 and especially 4 for how bad they are

[@ibtunesoriginals2629]

Season 3 bad? Lay off the Ketamine mate

[@mrdr0161]

I'm sorry?

[@connorchenery977]

Maybe I'm remembering season 3 differently, personally I didn't enjoy it but maybe it wasn't bad. Season 4 tho that was awful

[@ibtunesoriginals2629]

@@connorchenery977 yeah I think you should rewatch season 3, you must be misremembering 😂 but yeah, season 4 is non-canon to me

[@talkaboutnowt6644]

The more i realize how good some of Chibnall's Torchwood is the more pissed i get over how wank his Doctor Who is

[@leejohnstone894]

Chinall couldn't craft his way out of a paper bag

[@mrdr0161]

Except he can...

[@nonenone4461]

Lol....you should have done some better research. You capped off the motives involved, halfway through the episode. The rest is about how none of that was true.

[@katrinajohnson6780]

did you watch the entire video?