Hard Support Tier List | Dota 2 7.37d

[@ZQuixotix]

Some heroes I forgot on this list/you have asked about: - Tinker = C Tier. A lot of pubs won't give you the proper space to get farmed the way you want to. Still good in the late game and at the style he brings - Bounty Hunter = C Tier. He keeps getting buffed, I think you can make him work with a more aggressive team comp. Similar to Tinker, I don't think you'll get the ideal draft to make him work as a 5 very often - Magnus = D Tier. You have to be really good with Skewer. Empower to enable teammates is not as good as it used to be. Magnus specialists will be fine - Nyx Assassin = D Tier. Very weak laning stage, no option for creep dragging and very punishing to roam from safe lane - Sniper = D Tier. Scattershot nerf hurt the value of support Sniper a lot. Still playable as pos 4, but quite weak for a pos 5

[@SFTaYZa]

Don't know how you forgot medusa

[@krazed0451]

Nyx surely has to be a C, his potential to take the large creep from a pull camp with his second spell is very handy, and for some reason people love to focus the pesky Nyx who has high armour. He's a constant threat to squishy supports and trades well. I'm not sure why you think he can't creep drag, this sounds like a you issue, learn the hero. Source: 86.4% WR after 22 games on Nyx this patch.

[@jeffe2267]

Have you tried Abaddon lately?

[@apex9806]

Any thoughts on Bloodseeker support? His kit is actually insane when percieved from a support perspective.

[@beneaththeveil]

Your service in forcing Act IV out is invaluable, Zac. Thank you

[@TheLegendofLeo]

I played Lich last night for the first time in years because of you. What a beast of a hero. He’s way more fun now than at any point in his history.

[@bestiaalfin1061]

U literally doesnt have to care abt mana once lane breaks out,and ur slows are extremely overbuffed,feels like enemies are rooted.

[@enBT]

Especially after you get aghs upgrade its so strong gazing 3 heroes at once and then ulting them

[@Jebu911]

Sacrificer lich was my guilty pleasure back when it worked. It just instantly made you win your lane

[@PsychoMachado]

@@Jebu911 Lich and Enigma were able to do it. Just constantly deny the ranged creep so the enemy has less xp and gold.

[@lordparthurnaax]

Lich is my go-to hero whenever I'm in a losing streak. Papa lich never disappoints

[@Trash_G0lem]

I would put pugna higher on pub games, cause the lower you go, the rarer people buy dispels for your w, healing reduction item for your r, and often just ignore the ward whole teamfight, which makes you tankiest fing hero on the map.

[@JewTube001]

Yeah, I'd say he's more or less a pub stomper in guardian-crusader games. People just don't counter him there he's not so advanced a crusader wouldn't be able to play him.

[@nobeledgar6289]

another fun fact about lich is that there's another cheese build i tend to have high success before is building phylactery on lich + lvl 10 left talent which makes your skill 1 nukes harder it's been a while though since i last played that build, i think it was around when my mmr was still archon 4-5 ish in the 2.8k-3k and i'm aware that it's sort of a greedy build but it nukes so good the earlier you can get the phylactery so i'd say it's kinda strong mainly in lower bracket i've opted from building that strictly because i've been playing less lich and when i do play lich i now usually tend to play around like solar/glimmer instead as i play in a 5 man party and team items in the previous letter patch was sort of the broken item so yeah

[@willocoptor]

“In low tiers X is good because players don’t buy counter item Y” - ZQ meanwhile in my low tier pubs theres 5 players first item rushing Y

[@wuhu0]

Probably they're farming item y slow as fuck

[@milansvancara]

Yeah when coaching I also love when in some games there is no detection whatsoever and in others they buy gem min 15 and pile 20 dusts in inventory lul

[@NeW_WhiSKeY]

They watch him too😂🙌🏻

[@Arcticp75]

Can we get Jupiter back on the analysis desk? Some insightful pub points, truly a cat of the people.

[@subschool5]

i propose that every episode Jupiter gets a brief analysis segment 13:00

[@jakevoytko]

I came in here to say "Thank you for sacrificing yourself and summoning the next patch," and see that you already addressed it in the intro. Thank you for your service 🫡

[@fdajax5107]

A true support

[@adhirf]

Thanks for this updated tier list, maybe the next video could be Phoenix guide because i want to try to learn it by myself but i don't have the knowledge for it.

[@nicocastillo2099]

I just finished watching your Lich video and you dropped this another video. Awesome stuff man!

[@jaxjax5489]

Thank you for the video

[@JewTube001]

Lich is just so versatile, he's got everything and if you level your skills in the right order and buy the right items you'll be useful in EVERY match. Only issue I have with him is that in some situations death charge can be super annoying, like trying to do rosh early. Every now and then I'll need to TP to base just to get mana. It's worth it though.

[@fajitas4every1]

ET has been my climbing hero over the last year. I enjoy playing him pos 4 though. The impact he has by scouting with Spirit and nailing clutch stomps makes him fun to play over and over IMO. I am a current pos5 Silencer enjoyer. Just had a 9 game win streak end last week. Global will never be bad, getting int steal from across the map is nice. Ancient 3.

[@dariussonofjazzlin7433]

Does Jupiter do coaching?

[@OsomoMojoFreak]

I have good success with WD at 6k WEU. I play around sustain/utility though, I can't even remember the last time I got aghs as you'll rarely see situations where you'll get a game winning ult. I'd rather just win due to simply outsustaining the enemies while you toss in solid ults here and there. It's just far more consistent. Gameplay wise I go with the cask facet and level heal either on lvl 1 or 2 for trading in lane, then I'll max cask > maledict > voodoo restoration. I'll get the cheaper voodoo restoration at lvl 14 unless I absolutely need hp from the other talent, cask talent at 15. Item wise I'll always get arcane boots and wand (as it is very mana intensive - you'll chuck a lot of clarities and mangoes throughout a game at average as well in prolonged sieges for example), after that it differs a bit, but typically items like solar crest, greaves, holy locket, glimmer, force staff, etc. Need shard at some point, depending on enemy burst.

[@kwamebrownofficial]

You are one of my favorite Dota content creator. Thanks broski

[@Drizzle52693]

Tinker is by far the best supp in pub games IMO. Get a solar crest and just spam it with defensive matrix on your carry and they’re invincible. With March he can double stack camps and it’s also a very good lane spell that heals. Laser is great for spamming on enemy cores in fight. I double down every time I’m playing pos 1 and I have a tinker pos 5 and I almost always win

[@jtong622]

Can you make a video on how to think about counter picking when you see enemy heroes pick a few heroes?

[@SirClarkus]

A little late to the party, but you didn't really discuss Oracle at all, he just sorta jumped up to A tier. Any insight on why he's hardly ever picked in the pro scene?

[@dinoattack2]

How does DB support work? Every time I tried it, laning feels so bad because of her bad mana pool

[@DreamOnDamu]

wd with the split shot ult has been getting me pretty far as long as u get early picks and rotate often. Buy whatever first support item would be important first like a vessel or force and with enough picks your team can be farmed enough to fight anything while u get ready for aghs and e z win every fight unless they have a lot of stuns

[@renardor]

I love Abaddon right now. This hero is so good at my MMR (2.8k) . The heal he provides with locket is really good ! Just buy tranquil, locket and whatever you want and you're good to go. I'm still not sure about aghanim. I think it's more a "win more" item you get when your team is already winning, but i've yet to see a real impact it may have.

[@JuristPugilist]

How do you handle the mana issues when buying tranquil boots? I’ve always purchased arcane boots on abandon, often converting to guardian greaves after holy locket, which helps with mana. Abaddon isn’t much of a “spammer” but in a contested lane you do go oom just from protecting your carry.

[@JewTube001]

@@JuristPugilist pavise and a-lens give mana and they help you save people more. as pos5 i always build and play him like a backliner. the ult is just there to make it annoying for them to pick me off

[@kuamir573]

Treant is S tier pos 5 bro, with his shard he is basically riki that can walk in tree, bkb piercing ulti, strongest right click at level 1, his Q and W magic damage is strong AF if you level it first, with AVERAGE skilled team you can enter mid game winning and snow ball from there...

[@thekentmk]

Having great success with Grim the past 2 weeks, running at 27-7, currently on Crusader 4. This rank on SEA takes long at times to end, which gives me enough time to build aghs. With most SEA Crusader Pos 1 picking Jugg, Luna and SF, its great to have it late. Putting it with souldbind and with another core or scaling support, it just tips the scales during clash.

[@eclxys]

wait are u the grimstroke on match 7999033126 where i was weaver good stuff if yes

[@BadMuthaDro]

Thank you for beginning the update ritual

[@nate2sev]

Thanks for the list!

[@ZAN23966]

I love that shadow demon is getting more recognition

[@Twinsen764]

ZQ you should cover up the heroes you don't talk about until you are talking about it to make it a surprise. Also WHERE"S TINKER!

[@eclairitea]

no teasing pls

[@zerovolts19]

This is a good idea

[@JewTube001]

tinker got nerfed. he's very bad early so it's not really worth the risk of taking him in most matches

[@Twinsen764]

Im 17 and 3 with him in last 20 matches. That says otherwise. You just don't know how to play him.

[@zhontigue]

zquixotix dropped a tier list! patch tomorrow confrmed!

[@mario141230]

I don't see Lycan with Alpha Wolves plus aura item in the list :)

[@trontheallmighty9055]

I'm not a big pos5 rubick fan, I think he's way better as a pos4, but I think he's relatively well positioned just based off what heroes are very picked right now, you don't get a ton of heroes with spells that are just bad to steal, though neither underlord nor lesh are A tier right now so it's a little sad (icefrog double the numbers on invading force I want underlord to get picked)

[@ragberkotobuki41]

I`ve been playing Naga 5 since 2016. Fucking Glad she is back as a 5, with the same "E" skill as in the past (kinda). Im not a pro but in my bracket and in time I have to play I found a lot of success with naga, even with people who don`t know the hero and why is she 5

[@tevit7461]

I love the cat sm

[@pcxxy]

Please rate veno lower so she can get buffed harder 😂😂😂

[@jithinsurendran678]

Act 4 is up soon❤❤❤❤

[@NicholasWaldrop-x3g]

Pudge in D tier makes me feel like my wins are more worth it.

[@lanceeeee1]

Guys I am now a better person I had a 0 chat behavior score for the better part of a year. I am now at 2,000 after 3 months of supporting in turbo. Is there any way to increase it faster? I’m trying to learn the support role as best as I can

[@GurneroMaelstrom]

2000 is extremely low. If you were actually a better person, it will be easy for you to get behavior and com score to 10k

[@maryclaris4762]

Just play with less talking on the mic. If you want to do something with the team, try saying why you wanted to do it. For example smoke gank, maybe like "all our ulti is up, lets smoke gank for a kill" or "Enemy don't have bkb / ult in cd, lets find a pick off." Tbh, just less talking and try thinking on how you can improve your game.

[@JewTube001]

i rage like 10% of the time and my behavior score is still over 10k. i think people with low behavior scores have some type of mental or personality disorder because you've really got to try to get it that low.

[@JewTube001]

@@maryclaris4762 assume that every game is winnable and if you have to criticize, save it for the post game chat.

[@maryclaris4762]

@@JewTube001 I tend not to involve myself in those rants after game. It's just a waste of time for me.

[@basketball2560]

Yo how come you never talk about Sand King ? That hero is all I know lol and I'm good with SK but it's the least talked about hero.

[@B0uff0s]

dunno about AA. I enjoy being annoying in my 2,5-3k pubs

[@peropero2307]

I haven't played entire summer, well more, about 6m... shadow and tusk are always at least a tier, you have good save, bkb piercing spell and a bit of cc. tusk is better IMHO, but it is way harder to execute, and he is more 4 then 5. so kids, learn ss 5 and tusk 4, and you can go 9k easy, is 9k still good....

[@peropero2307]

PS, before summer I have played lych... he was so fkn good... don't take that talent that basically just zones one enemy with ur ulty.

[@HosenMatzDeluXe]

Tinker?

[@Bergreen88]

I really don't understand how Enchantress gets a low win rate. You can literally play her without micro. Just don't control creeps, use W as a massive hero slow, and play her as an unkillable right clicker who does massive damage. Get like hurricane pike, shadow blade, parasma. You can just kill everyone that way.

[@GurneroMaelstrom]

She'll gets easily countered late game by Silver Edge making you waste BKB

[@Bergreen88]

@@GurneroMaelstrom if she has her own silver edge and hurricane pike, she's not just easily countered by another silver edge. But also don't forget sproink. She's just so hard to kill if you have any practice playing her.

[@lukaspts671]

when soft list i wait bro love it

[@brycetorian]

Where is visage?

[@OPequeNiNo1]

where is tinker

[@sHooIT]

usually im on point with my evaluation of the patch (as a lowly archon scrub) and my list is very similar with yours. but holy shit i fucked up this time lol. I thought pugna felt soo strong. I also thought tusk was very good still. And i played omniknight and wrote him off immediately as dog tier.

[@eclairitea]

Had a game where my SD kept saving enemies from my Sonic Wave with disruption lmao. definitely not a pub hero

[@simonepizza8600]

praise

[@adrianljx66]

Is it just me or tinker is forgotten already 😅

[@chrisbowerman988]

Tinker, BH, Nyx, Magnus, Sniper all missing!

[@thecrystalblue23]

Naga guide plz 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@kozhedub27]

tinker?

[@wallacepekeur687]

lol that intro

[@TheGlenn8]

Having a cat must be hard bro.

[@maryclaris4762]

It's not that hard. I have 6 cats at home and some at workplace. It's much more fun with them around.

[@JewTube001]

not for support players

[@maryclaris4762]

@@JewTube001 I once played a support and got called out as telling on how the core should play their hero when I told him to get back when he's solo farming and I saw three enemy walking towards him under vision. But when I don't say anything, he got killed, then complain why you didn't tell me there are enemies coming haha

[@Melteezy23]

stop Mentioning y'all tinker cuz tinker ain't post5, its a pos4 lol

[@lukaspts671]

good tier lost bro

[@brandyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

techies buff soon pls 🙏🙏🙏

[@rogenhamen]

Bring back TB support :(

[@auto1nfanticid3]

not having tinker is weird.

[@brobro1659]

harosh

[@budisuping8551]

No one wanna talk about BS support here? :(

[@TheAllForgiving]

lol putting silencer in despair come on i have like 70% win rate Silencer spammer in my opinion as long as you play the hero you play the most you gonna have bigger chance to win

[@JewTube001]

silencer doesn't do anything besides stand around for leech int from your team's kills and press R when a fight happens.