Hardcore Hardtail Grouptest | Mountain Bike Rider

[@ronaldomac566]

Time for an updated version of hardcore hardtails for 2019, so many good hardtails out there................

[@frankymilad5071]

Ronaldo Mac agree. I need help deciding on a 2019- 2020

[@danzielcempron2589]

Da bomb sentinel?

[@010MACS]

Loving my 905. Picked one up from my local shop and it’s given me a great confidence boost over the anthem I used to have. Love its looks too!

[@luukvdpoel1839]

Please do this test Again for 2019 early

[@isaacbrooks5999]

2020!

[@wolfmtb57]

Hardtails for the win!!!!!!

[@reneberndt7476]

Missing the Ragley Bluepig

[@RideAlongside]

That intro was priceless! Hot water infused with leaves and talking about the weather! Hahaha

[@Dogboy73]

Love, love, love my Norco Torrent 7.1 ;-) He, he, he. Puts a smile on my boat race :D

[@chm1701]

Danny is a great video personality, so props to you for a clear and well put together video MBR. As far as the hardtails are concerned, you mention that the wider rubber makes sense on a hardtail, but that’s surely more to do with harder ground (ish), rather than full-on mud? I can’t really see them being much cop in super muddy areas, although I am willing to test that theory. However, as a 29er rider, a larger wheel with nice wider tyres and 120mm fork, I think would be nice - although a change to a mud tyre for the deep mud I experience during winter would be beneficial. I’m also steering towards a steel hardtail, as I find aluminium frames quite harsh to ride. Yes, a good alloy frame and bad steel frame can be had, but you can only make an aluminium frame so comfy without having to rely on high volume tyres and comfy grips to take the sting away. Anyway, a new Cotic sounds like a possibility, depending on their rear axle design and cable routing.

[@MBRmagazine]

Thanks Chris. Credit mainly to Alan Muldoon for the bike test itself. Yes, you are right, 2.8in tyres are not as happy in certain wet, muddy conditions as regular tyres, but there are more aggressive tread patterns that are pretty good now. The Minion DHF for example. Also the Magic Mary in 2.6in. In fact 2.6in will probably end up as the new normal for this, and other, reasons.

[@s2korpionic]

?? Having a larger contact patch would prevent the bike from sinking into the mud, so larger tires makes MORE sense on muddy ground (there's a limit of course, fat bikes win here).

[@anthonykelly6619]

not true I'm afraid, I own a fat bike among a normal bike, the fact that big tyres float means that instead of biting into the mud and gripping, the tyres will coast along the top, my fatty is particularly sketchy on steep corners in the mud where it wants to "coast" off the edge as if you had hit black ice!

[@cornishcactus]

Looks at 400 quid Talon 3, it's ok, I still like you.

[@piotrlobacz]

Whyte strikes 10/10 again! I am Whyte proud owning two whyte bikes. They are amazing.

[@th_js]

It's Finland's 100 year indepence day!! 🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮PERKELE

[@NallePu83]

Gratulerer

[@themagicillusions]

Tomi Saaranen VITTU

[@ftrujillomunizaga]

Viva Chile con puré!

[@tomsharpe8181]

I get that these were only British brands but will you do a shoutout with other brands bikes like Commencal and kona’

[@raupenimmersatt6906]

Tom Sharpe dont forget the PP Shan!

[@thatguythatdoesstuff7448]

I have the Commencal Meta AM HT Origin (2018). What a great bike for the money.

[@jonthomas8487]

And the Santa Cruz Chameleon

[@extrastrong2008]

dartmoor hornet!!

[@jarifauti4586]

Merida Big.trail 500 (2018) :)

[@jamesroberts7906]

Love when biking magazines test hardtails, why oh why is it the same bikes every year, there are so many other hardtails out there. Yes I was going to go for a the nuke proof but the bird zero won just on the equipments.

[@L4This]

Would like a review of merida big trail :). But an awsome test hardtail in't dead!

[@LouisWinthorpe622]

You mentioned the Ragley Marley in the Orange Crush segment, which only made it more conspicuous by it's absence. Funny how the 905 doesn't have that super low, sloped top tube, with the seat tube brace, thing going on, like a lot of the other companies going for the 'hardcore hardtail' thing, with their designs, have but, at the same time, you say that the 905 has the most progressive geometry in the test and wins it overall. Wonder why they're all doing the low top tube/ brace thing then? It reminds me of 'jump bike' geometry from the early 2000's onwards. 26" wheeled, trials bikes, geometry, too. Maybe it's that creeping into trail bikes for lower center of gravity, stability, agility and controlability in the air.??

[@mikieson]

loving my 2017 GT Pantera Comp..great budget hardtail..

[@gethinrogers7937]

mikieson can it do jumps and trail

[@olivervantil1834]

No P7?

[@davidmaskew]

Yes I agree but, isn't it way more expensive. Think the point of thess shootouts is to use similar price point bikes. Cotic Soul would be my choice to put up against P7.

[@jpg6482]

love my P7!

[@misteraxeman2680]

What mudguard is that on the Nukeproof?

[@richarde1355]

I have a Nukeproof Scout -nice bike! Downside so far: lack of customer service.I have a 2015, and the stock 32T front chainring mated to an 11-36 cassette. Makes it tough to get up steep stuff. I've sent some inquiries to Nukeproof asking a few questions, such as if my stock bike components could handle, say, an 11-42T cassette without modifications, and so far no response. I received an automatic computer response acknowledging receipt of the email, but after a week and a half, so I know the email got ot the right inbox, but no response from a real person.On the flip side, I have several other major brand bikes, and over the last year I've sent an email each to Specialized and Kona bikes with some questions, and in each time both companies have responded completely and thoroughly within 24 hours. Kona even had me call them to clarify a couple of things. So, for Nukeproof - nice product, but so far customer service is lacking. I recently re-sent the original email as a follow-up, and hoping to hear from someone. Fingers crossed!

[@rardrian9250]

where is dartmoor hornet??

[@sam.raycars]

got the 909 2019 and it's a great bike

[@shanewatson9010]

Love this style of bike,and will be buying one soon hopefully.Can get a Nukeproof delivered to Australia for $2250 but after checking on prices here for the Whyte 905 they are asking $3000, any reason why so much dearer as they are same price in UK.

[@ageng.raditya]

Dartmoor!!!

[@35_wikugalihpamungkas73]

Wiih ada bang ageng raditya

[@shanemb3]

Having a hard time deciding between Whyte 901/905 or a Norco Fluid HT+. Specialized Fuze 27.5+ and the Santa Cruz chameleon 27.5+ are contenders too. I like the Marley bikes but they don't offer anything in a larger tire. Not really looking for a DH HT.

[@jtkyber]

What did you end up buying? I was between the 2019 Whyte 905 and 2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon R+. I just ordered the Whyte but I am afraid that the frame will be too large and chunky and that it won't be as fun to ride as the Chameleon.

[@papi96]

I wonder how the Scout 290 Comp would compare? Put some 29 x 2.6" or 2.5" WT tires on it, and it might be best of the bunch!

[@harrybenson9339]

You say the Orange's 44mm headtube makes it easy to fit an angle adjust headset to slacken it out but I cannot seem to find such a headset that fits a 44m straight headtube. any help would be much appreciated?

[@bikesbeardsbeers94]

I'm in the market for an upgrade come this spring. Been looking at full sussers but something like this might be even better. Love that Orange Crush, but am seriously looking at a Commencal Meta AM.

[@jackom8418]

What did you get in the end mate? I’m looking at either a scout comp £1500 or similar priced full sus.

[@kuyabebsvlog785]

You forgot Dartmoor Hornet 😬

[@keithkenny5227]

Whats the new orange clockwork evo like compared to the crush. They look really similar

[@tyronharding647]

Nice video! Will you be doing anything on the 2018 voodoo bizango?

[@Johnroberts2013]

In the Ragley Blue Pig review, I quote “It may be one of the best Hardtails we’ve ever tested” and yet it wasn’t in this?

[@MBRmagazine]

Good point, but where possible we try not to put the same bikes in a test two years running if they haven't changed significantly. At the moment, Ragley doesn't have a 2018 model.

[@Johnroberts2013]

Mountain Bike Rider Ah ok, that’s understandable.

[@davidmaskew]

I've just got a Whyte 905 and I'm loving it. Not ridden for a few years, things have changed tons and I have only ever really had hardtails other than a Giant atx 990 I owned obviously many many years ago . Before buying I did try a couple of full sus bikes which were a little more money but only to keep components at a similar level. I was happy to pay it if I felt I needed to. I liked them and was surprised how they didn't really feel much heavier but in the end I didn't feel they were for me/what I need but I'm not going to say never. On the 905 I was a bit worried about the 2.8" plus tyres at first but I really like them now and they definitely give a little extra grip and cushioning on the more lumpy stuff I encounter but can see them maybe being a bit of a drain on longer rides. I do love climbing on rougher stuff while in the saddle with them, they just wrap around stuff and grip, the larger diameter over my old 26" probably helps too. I guess for now I'm still more of a hardtail fan myself and to be honest I'm just enjoying being back in the saddle trying to stay the right way up with a grin on my face which for me at the end of the day is what is all about.

[@jtkyber]

How is the 2019 905 compared to the 2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon R+? Is the 905 worse at climbing or does the lightness make up for the slack head angle and longer chainstay length?

[@TaylorDanJ]

Where are the trails you're testing these on? They look sick!

[@kingrat738]

Those squiggly seat stays can go jump!!

[@boostaholic7116]

Been waiting for this review! I'm so tempted to get the 905! What size would you recommend for me I'm 5"10 tall???

[@joelawton123]

boostaholic 71 did you get one?

[@kristophercochran8105]

So what exactly is the difference between the Yari and the new revelation? They have the same damper according to rock shox’s website.

[@klescarbeau9757]

Can you do another video like this but with US brands because I don't think we can get these bikes.

[@matthewmcrae1104]

If you're going to put out a video comparing specs, you should probably get your facts straight. The orange has the slackest head angle, not the steepest, as was stated in the video. The crush as a head angle of 65 degrees, comparable to the scout, while the whyte has the steepest head angle of 65.5. And really to compare the top hardtail models from nukeproof and whyte agains the lowest model from orange seems a little biased. The P7 should have been in there instead of the crush. Bottom line, go ride all 3 and decide for yourself.

[@MBRmagazine]

Ah Matthew, sadly you make the rookie mistake of basing your argument on manufacturer's data, rather than real-world measurements. We weighed and measured all of these test bikes, as we do with every bike we test, and as usual they differed from the angles and dimensions quoted on the brand's websites. Not by much in this case, actually, but the real numbers as tested were: Nukeproof 64.2; Orange 64.7, Whyte 64.6. So nothing in it really, but the Nukeproof is the slackest. That doesn't mean to say that you couldn't walk into a shop and find a Nukeproof with a 65 head angle and a Whyte with 65.5, but those are the actual numbers on the bikes supplied to us. And regarding it not being a fair comparison, all three bikes cost within £1 of each other, so if that's not a level playing field, we don't know what is. What you are right about is that nothing beats going and riding all three then making a decision. Of course that might not always be possible, or you might ride all three in different locations, or you may just have a bad day on one of the bikes, just because you're having a bad day. But yes, always pays to test ride wherever possible.

[@matthewmcrae1104]

That's hilarious. To make a HUGE statement about the head angle of the orange bike being the steepest of them all and you measured it at 0.1 degrees steeper. I would argue that the error in your measurement greatly exceeds 0.1 degrees. With respect to the comparison, I agree that it would be a fair comparison if there was any mention of the price of these bikes either in the title or in the narration. I couldn't find a mention of the price in either. Don't get me wrong though, I love your videos. Keep up the great work. I've been researching my next bike and I'm partial to hardtails with this type of geometry.

[@MBRmagazine]

We mention that the Orange has the most fork travel, so assuming the same sag percentage, the Orange will also have the steepest dynamic head angle (at sag) and that difference will be greater than the 0.1 measured. Yes, small differences, but sometimes when bikes are this close, they are the ones that make the difference. Prices are at the end of the video, at 6:45. Glad you like the videos, though, after all that! ;-)

[@KlNGS0FA]

These bikes were designed with me in mind

[@bitumen83]

I really love aggressive hardtails BUT there is a catch, why would i pay 2200 eu for hardtail (Nukeproof scout on chain reaction) when i can but very good full sus for that or little more money... Like 2nd bike or winter bike ok hardtail is fine, but for 1st or only bike..hmmm

[@KristjanFarrugia]

Depends on your trail and what you enjoy doing on your bike ey :)

[@ItsLost]

you can ride the scout down some of the bigger jumps of whistler bike park just fine

[@silentknight3279]

Because some people just prefer hardtails

[@daddnsons7911]

How's does the vitus senteir vr stank up against these? Are these worth the extra £££?

[@andyjame3937]

How long does it take to transform your body from fat to fit?

[@stefanoskam3578]

nice review but i prefer enduro or dh bikes!

[@chm1701]

stefanos kam. A hell of a lot of people ride hardtails this time of year. Also, they’re more affordable, so it makes sense to show some. Besides, it makes sense for a hardtail showcase at the mo, due to muddy conditions increasing suspension bearing wear, etc.

[@raupenimmersatt6906]

stefanos kam there are enduro hardtails as the PP Shan/ Commencal Meta HT. They absolutely rock

[@themountainsbros381]

Could you please do the same test including Kona , GT , Commencal?

[@HS-hr9pm]

Can u do a comparison between 1X Drivetrain....v/s....3X Drivetrain

[@christianseely9934]

British Bikes? Do they break constantly and have zero parts support? JK, looks good. I like a few of those brands.

[@jcmymtb1258]

Like the orange, where I sign?

[@hikebikeandrocknroll6169]

where are Ragley Mmmbop/Blue Pig and Ghost Asket?

[@imperialred]

No Stanton?!?!?!?

[@romiejohnbanares1184]

What about the santa cruz chameleon v7 2018? Please review it. Thanks alot.

[@StephenStylesGoesVanCamp]

Is it worth an extra £600-£800 over a bike for a grand ?? I very much doubt it is !

[@jaakko200987654321]

please help! does anybody know where i can get orange crush/nukeproof scout hangers? i live in finland

[@boringcyclingadventures]

Where is dartmoor primal or hornet?

[@bobv7522]

Missing the Bird AM Zero

[@SuperLitherland]

no cotic bfe !!!

[@dabullz2346]

I've researched the whyte and the nukeproof trying to pick one of the 2 and your test was very helpful but You should probably mention that the 905 is $700 more than the 905 so ask yourself. Is the 905 worth the price difference over the scout?

[@MBRmagazine]

In the UK they are the same price.

[@dabullz2346]

Mountain Bike Rider wow in the US the scout is 1650 and the 905 is 2300 guess I'm going woth the nukeproof

[@papi96]

Where are you getting the Nukeproof for $1,650? I'm looking at both bikes too. $1,650 I've only seen at chain reaction, plus $105 for shipping to the US. So that brings the difference down to $545. The US distributors have it for $1,900, so that's a $400 difference. Trying to decide if the whyte is worth the extra money too.

[@dabullz2346]

Duniesky Fernandez yeah chain reaction is the only place you can get the scout in the US from what I've seen. They have online coupon codes for $75 off or free shipping. The whyte I found at whyte bicycles US for 2299.00 but that doesn't include tax or shipping. I really want to go with the 905 but having never ridden or for that matter seen either in person I can only rely on the guys at gbn and from this video they say the scout "narrowly" missed the win. I'm 50 yrs old so the days of dropping off cliffs and big air are over lol. Which is why I still want an aggressive bike I'm having trouble. Justifying the price difference

[@papi96]

PECJR23 thanks for the info! I actually contacted two of the U.S. dealers for Nukeproof. One is NY and one in Oregon I think. But they came out to about $1,900. I'll have to look for the chain reaction coupon! Except the medium 275 Comp is sold out. Might consider the 290 Comp and put some 29x2.6" tires in it. I also looked at Whyte USA. The shipping is free for bikes over $2K. I don't think there's tax. At least for me in NY. I'm in my 40s and looking for a do it all bike. Just sold a full suspension 29er and probably sell my single speed/rigid 29er too. This will be my one bike. Good luck with the search!

[@reidlarson3417]

No honzo!?!?

[@bedsidecabinet1]

Why no steel?

[@rikleferink]

Heavy

[@frazerward4827]

What was that intro all about lol

[@sha317]

should test the Kona Big Honzo Dl

[@monstermushroomcloud]

These bikes are made in England?

[@endyw76]

Can you please review the Trek Stash 9.7 2018

[@tokuchaan4693]

No love for Ragley? :(

[@MBRmagazine]

Not in this test, but several other Ragley video reviews elsewhere on the channel.

[@stefromfortworth]

No Ragley? Seriously?

[@samiadb8503]

No bluepig!!!

[@naethanparedes4469]

WHERE IS DARTMOOR!!?

[@daffvelos]

How bout trek marlin 7?

[@fuglstad_explores]

No dartmoor? Shame

[@Retrozobies22]

BTR? Kingdom bikes? SICK BIKE CO? Production privee? Cotic? They all make way more hard-core hardtails than these, yeah they're not all British brands but still why?

[@MBRmagazine]

Hi Ed, we'd love to have the time and resources to test all of the above bikes, but it's just not possible, so we have to make a decision based on what we think will be the most interesting, useful and informative bikes to test each issue. So we tend to gravitate towards the bigger brands as they will be what the largest audience will be considering buying.

[@kabaret3]

Stanton?

[@jonnyflanders1229]

Dat enduro gap

[@MBRmagazine]

Ha! We wondered how long before the first comment about that!

[@joeroche552]

All ali????

[@HellbrandGrimm]

No Ragley?

[@HellbrandGrimm]

Don't discard a brand because of one miss, had a Marin 29er I hated. then got the attack trail (one hell of a bike). The 2017 blue pig is low and slack. It's not a beginner/xc trail bike, but point it down hill it's beast! Demo it if you can. you'll like it.

[@hikebikeandrocknroll6169]

Could tell what kind of problems were there? I'm also think about buying a Marley.

[@jakem3327]

i thought nukeproof was german

[@aamgdp]

no bird

[@MIT2004]

The specialized Epic HT

[@ellocko2028]

Musik name?

[@ianholmquist8492]

Crap

[@leaphchausew7277]

Bird AM.

[@truantray]

These reviews...all I hear is a bunch of subjective marketing bullshit typical of bike magazines. 12 speed is a must in the real world,and some of these large volume 27.5+ bikes weigh north of 32 pounds. Heavy bikes with heavy wheels climb like shit.

[@mwinner101]

Orange bikes look homemade. Awful welding.

[@GRPABT1]

What a stupid review without the Meta Hardtail or the Honzo.

[@James-yy4vl]

What didn't you understand about "British brands"?

[@vaughandegrave9839]

Test the new p7 like if you agree

[@vaughandegrave9839]

I had a 2009 p7 with an upgraded fork (140mm fox float rl32) till very recently. I understand that the new bike is very different and looks to my eyes much better and more

[@vaughandegrave9839]

Suited to my needs. Accidentally sent that last one before I had finished it!

[@simonrano8072]

Worst than sponsored content : national pride content...

[@elementour]

No way could I justify 1800 quid on a hard tail

[@piotrlobacz]

Chris Graves shut up. I payed 2 grand for my 909. Best money ever spent.

[@mikedicke5505]

Chris Graves when it comes to bulletproof, I’d say money well spent!

[@SmokinMesa]

Yet people are prepared to spend 3k+ on a full

[@matthewkuhl79]

Hell, i have built 4 hardtails that cost over 3000!

[@Chris-qd3oz]

@@matthewkuhl79 my custom Hornet was over 3500 n its worth every penny!

[@VANDWELLINGPRO]

oh yeah, ALL British bikes! Why wouldn't you want to f****** include American bikes? If any bikes should be included there is none more than American bike in the first place. I lost all respect credibility with me you're completely biased

[@MBRmagazine]

For starters this test was themed around UK hardcore hardtails, as they have always been a very UK-centric category. Secondly, the Santa Cruz Chameleon is £200 more expensive than the bikes in this test here in the UK. Nothing against American brands and bikes, as you'll see if you check out some of our other videos (Megatower first ride, Yeti SB150 test, American Dream bikes test...)

[@joeroche552]

why no steel?

[@nataliekuhl7793]

Does anybody know what mudguard is on that Scout?

[@MBRmagazine]

Natalie Pitts it's from Soho bikes