Intel is FINALLY Doing Something Different

[@HardwareCanucks]

Out Full Review (as promised) is LIVE: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eamkfndsnpqXjMU

[@abhijitnalani]

Love the review !! Thank you!! if possible please post a comparison with Apple's M chips as well :))

[@mariopenulli1395]

Can't wait!

[@HardwareCanucks]

@@abhijitnalani Done

[@eduardobarreto5555]

Knowing little of the newest naming scheme made me think that the "Lunar Lake 200V" in the thumbnail was referring to a CPU running at 200 volts lol.

[@Metamine0]

To be fair to you, computer part naming schemes have gotten WAY too convoluted

[@A-BYTE64]

@@Metamine0 it is all about psychology sadly

[@dqskatt]

@@Metamine0 I think everyone should copy Apple or Nvidia (except their VRAM snake oil BS). They are so much better than what we have from Intel AMD and Qualcomm (look at you X1E-84-100 X1E-80-100 X1E-78-100)

[@DavidsKanal]

@@dqskatt Bro, the "Ti Super" naming they got going on this time is hella confusing. Only Apple's naming scheme is dead-simple, and that's perhaps because they don't have many chips.

[@dqskatt]

@@DavidsKanal Ti is just mean better chip with significant difference, Super mean mid-generation refresh. It is simple as that people even non-tech-savvy, know that more letter mean better Also forgot to include AMD GPU naming Scheme is also great except for some outlier like 7900GRE (they're just faster 7800XT)

[@maridaudran]

This was the first video that actually explained the new Intel numbering scheme in a way that is easily understandable. Thank you. A+

[@HardwareCanucks]

Thanks!

[@leonxus2701]

thats why i gave it a like, normally i dont do it.

[@RobloxianX]

RTX 3050 speed iGPUs are real. Absolutely nuts

[@A-BYTE64]

still pointless

[@handlemonium]

Don't worry, RX 6650XT class performance fueled by 266.66 GB/s of RAM bandwidth via a quad-channel 256-bit bus is coming next year 😉

[@RobloxianX]

@@A-BYTE64 they use way less power than a dedicated GPU, imagine this inside of a MacBook pro wannabe laptop

[@GlobalWave1]

It’s about time Intel catches up. I can’t wait to see what the iGPU of the M4 max looks like. I wonder what Strix Halo will look like next year. 😅

[@handlemonium]

@@RobloxianX Well a Quadro RTX 4000 SFF only draws 70 watts so a similarly performant iGPU paired with a 35-45W CPU the total TDP could be as low as 105-115 watts. The Macbook Pro 14 M3 Max peaks out at 101W and the Pro 16 at 145W so the upcoming Strix Halo APUs from AMD will probably draw wattage right in between the Pro 14 and Pro 16.

[@slimjimjimslim5923]

The most important change is intel using tsmc for lunar lake and actually showing the power benefit

[@dqskatt]

Intel is always ahead of AMD in ultra light mobile chip games, Battery life or anything, Now that they're using smaller node and architecture change, everything will be significantly better.

[@A-BYTE64]

@@dqskatt who cares, perfomrance is all that matters

[@handlemonium]

Is Alder Lake on an Intel Foundries node?

[@dqskatt]

​@@A-BYTE64 @handlemoniu Intel use TSMC since Meteor lake (14th gen mobile) for performance, they are claiming they are faster than AMD 890M iGPU while using less power. I heard they are 15% faster than old generation, but the selling point of this generation is insane efficiency and battery life

[@yuvrajsingh099]

​@@dqskattAMD 8800Hs was giving better life when compared to last gen Intel.

[@DragonKingGaav]

Ebert looks different.

[@HardwareCanucks]

Haha. We're sharing laptop coverage right now because there's just an insane amount of stuff coming out. Never seen it this crazy...

[@04_ruizatanedy24]

@@HardwareCanucksyeah while the cooling market is stale af 😢

[@e21big]

@@DragonKingGaav That's what cold, hard Canadian climate did to your skin tone

[@SuperMachead1]

The biggest change is that intel isn’t making the chips anymore…TSMC is…

[@green_block]

This is the first time in a long time when x86 beats ARM so comprehensively in power efficiency benchmark while also retaining the performance advantages. Lunar Lake might push Qualcomm ARM chips out the market. Better performance, better efficiency, similar price point, and most importantly software compatibility- Lunar Lake beats ARM in all aspects.

[@M1710]

This feels very much like a Centrino moment for Intel, if anyone remember?

[@Arkan_Fadhila]

this is what intel always claim in their presentation. they claim AI PC as centrion moment for intel

[@tanker242]

​@@Arkan_Fadhilano... You read it wrong... He is talking about CentrINO... So like 20 years ago they had nice low powered chips that people liked. I think this was during the core 2 duo area like mid/late 2000s.

[@or1on89]

@@tanker242I actually hated Centrino…they were super-slow…

[@SweBeach2023]

@@tanker242 It was launched with the Pentium M brand, so the predecessor to the Core Duo and Core 2 Duo. It was also a major step up in regard to battery efficiency since the CPU was built almost from the ground up for mobile use, it wasn't just a slightly lower clocked desktop CPU.

[@M1710]

​@@or1on89 They were anything but slow. The Pentium M was considerably more energy efficient than the top Pentium 4 yet performing on par or better in many cases. Lunar Lake seems to be almost the same here. Of course the Meteo Lake and even Raptor Lake will outperform this in multi-threaded apps, but this is where Arrow Lake comes in as they are based on the same P and E core but with more of everything. Just like first gen i7 was based on Banias (Pentium M).

[@rimlatv]

Happy to see Intel back on top of it's game. Looks like it's finally worth it to upgrade coming from a 3-5 years old Laptop with the new Lunar Lake CPUs.

[@TheSpiritof76]

This is so cool, this is EXACTLY the direction I wanted laptops to go I know I'm asking for much but I wish the GPU was a bit stronger but other than that I am actually considering buying a laptop for the first time in my life (if the claims are actually true)

[@Arkan_Fadhila]

unfortunately i guess intel can't add more juice to gpu due to lack of memory bandwith from ram. i wonder if using LPDDR5T will help intel add another performance to the gpu but i guess it came too late for intel to consider it

[@Zeni-th.]

The GPU is quite good, pulls more than 60 fps in cyberpunk at medium settings. It's better than any other igpu out there

[@ohmygosh6176]

I am fine with SOC where RAM, CPU, GPU and storage is bundled together, as long as the following requirements are met. 1. Two m.2 slots supporting nvme gen 5 2. Battery is replaceable. 3. There is also a 32gb and 128gb ram version available.

[@HardwareCanucks]

I'll add one: larger battery capacity due to space savings and lower pricing.

[@Arkan_Fadhila]

128gb ram would be interesting, however lunar lake design can't utilize it because of lack of performance to begin with

[@kartikpintu]

128?? What you gonna use that for? Ultrabooks are not made for blender /davinci. Remember, unused ram is wasted ram

[@peejae082004]

@@HardwareCanucks how was the always on/standby battery life?

[@mrbobgamingmemes9558]

I dont see use case for cpu like this with more than 32 gb of ram except on after effects which wont smash your cpu and gpu that much but will eat your ram like crazy

[@ItsNicolau]

These breakdown videos are incredible, thank you for explain the new generations and new architectures is such an easy to understand way!

[@HardwareCanucks]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed.

[@jrob5184]

Let's hope they don't charge apple prices for more ram.

[@HardwareCanucks]

The Aura Edition (Ultra 7 258V) costs $180 more for 32GB and a 1TB (vs 512GB) SSD. Not bad at all IMO

[@reiniermoreno1653]

​@@HardwareCanucksbut the base price?

[@dd07871]

Let's hope it doesn't start at 4GB.

[@Zeni-th.]

lowest end has 16 gigs​@@dd07871

[@HwL01]

Nah it is not something Windows laptops do, usually prices are reasonable (Not USD200 for 8GB of extra ram etc)

[@lexkoal8657]

200V looks very interesting. They the priorities right. Performance, efficiency, GPU, clear naming, no gimped versions of the chip. Kinda reminds me Ryzen 4000 with a little bit of M1. Hope it's not too expensive.

[@abrarwiryawan]

6 -> 16GB, 8 -> 32GB. who would have thought

[@aadidev3589]

Thank you for clarifying the naming scheme. It was little confusing

[@handlemonium]

Core Ultra is actually kinda growing on me. Hopefully they bring back the Royal Core architecture Jim Keller had jump started cooking up under the hood for 2030 instead of sticking to BIG.little

[@Swarailiaball]

@@handlemonium same here. when core ultra first launched, i completely opposed to the naming scheme but now i feel like its not that bad. atleast its better than what ever amd has with their ryzen AI hx 9's 🤣

[@handlemonium]

@@Swarailiaball Yeah even "Ryzen 9 370HAI" is better 👋

[@e21big]

100 percent with you - bring back USB-A, _double it_ , I can run both external mouse and keyboard off my old Zenbook laptop (which is just 1.2 kg), there's no excuse to put just one on in a new system. 2 USB-A, 2 USB-C that do display output and charge should be the standard across the industry.

[@dqskatt]

I think 2 USB A is enough for everyone, But I think I want more USB-C like 3 or 4. My keyboard come with USB-C cable and USB C2A adaptor. The mouse is detachable USB C2A cable, so changing them is quite easy. The only 2 things in my desk that isn't USB-C is my old Micro USB 2018 Wacom tablet, and my 2016 webcam that is half broken 1 USB-A and 3 USB-C is sweet spot for Me

[@dqskatt]

And remember since 2023 everything must come with detachable USB-C2C, So all USB A port will soon fall under obscurity. Maybe usage for very old external storage? Or very old hardware that will soon be replaced?

[@e21big]

@@dqskatt That's for wired peripheral though, realistically I think it's more likely for people to move to wireless and most wireless adapters for 2.4 GHz is still USB-A

[@dqskatt]

@@e21bigI mean no one use wireless mouse and plug straight to port with no extension? no? those extensions are Detachable C2A cable. Even if you do not use an extension that is why at least, 1 USB A must stay I mean the keyboard started to put USB C2C just recently it will take like a year to Mice wireless receiver to adapt to USBC And also those 8khz,4khz dongles are USB C and It becomes small, very affordable and the norm nowdays.

[@e21big]

@@dqskatt Why use extension adapter if you can plug the adapter straight to the USB port? Beside those are finicky, more often than not they just don't register the plug-in peripheral or just one of them instead of two. I also can't imagine wireless peripheral adapter being made with USB-C. Just look at them, they are already extremely tiny even with USB-A port, I doubt they can compact everything to USB-C size

[@high-captain-BaLrog]

good editing, calmly presented collated information, can't wait for arrow lake HX line-up, you guys stand above innumerable other reviewers across the world, well done!

[@tomasradacovsky7227]

This info is out since 3rd of september and you release a video on it 19 days later. I expected a review at this point, not just reading marketing materials.

[@HardwareCanucks]

Reviews are being released on Tuesday. This is a backgrounder as we clearly pointed out.

[@tedzards509]

It is compiled very neatly, and I don't see the issue with covering older information in general. Especially as this is a primer for the release and embargo lift.

[@chinesesparrows]

I prefer a well organized backgrounder with informed thoughts/highlights 2 days before the full review than half a month between

[@naga2015kk]

THIS BRINGS back memory of the days when INTEL flatly stated ITS IMPOSSIBLE to transition to X64 bit instructions and AMD says Hold my Beeer. Competition is the ONLY WAY forward. Let a company monopolize the market and you get stagnation.

[@attilastevekopias]

I'm curious to see how this new architecture with high power efficiency and the integrated RAM will affect the rest of the market. I'm a data professional, and I have 64GB in my current laptop, since there are situations when if you can't load stuff into memory in a single batch, you can't work in it at all. Currently, most of the laptops offering this amount of RAM are beefy ones, coming with strong CPUs and strong GPUs, thus weighing like a brick, with short battery life. I don't need a strong CPU or GPU, that was never a bottleneck (worst case: scripts run a bit longer, but they still run), but I would be happy to spend a workday without charging. The new Lunar Lake would be ideal if I could get it with 64GB of RAM. That's not going to happen since that's not the purpose of LL, and that's fine. But I hope this extreme power efficiency approach will spread out, and we either get a future architecture (in a year or two) that is similar to LL but with separate RAM, or the regular CPUs will have a lower minimum power consumption. Most of the time, we are using the same Windows, browser, word, gmail, youtube regardless of whether we are on a thin&light or on a stronger laptop, and if they can be used perfectly with very low power consumption in a thin&light, a bigger laptop should be able to do that as well, and only consume more power when there's actually more computational power needed (gaming, ai training, etc).

[@kokesjohn]

Ebert you have presented the best, most accurate, and explained Lunar Lake so so so well. Thank you. I hope you will MORE hardware canucks video in the future 💯👋👋👋👌✌👍🙏😇😁🤗

[@TheBadFred]

My biggest gripe with "Wintel" is Windows 11. I wish I could go back to Windows 7. Linux has also unfinished business: X11 or Wayland, Sound on Linux, commercial software for Linux (Affinity for Linux would be nice). ARM on Windows is better than before but nothing in comparison to Apple, because Microsoft never fully committed to ARM and it seems that most of the people care less about AI than Microsoft thought.

[@charleswidmore5458]

every single version of windows gets crappier

[@dragonmaster1500]

Given how it seems like the power consumption of their 13/14th gen chips has been what was biting them in the arse the most (microcode issue and manufacturing defects aside), it kind of makes sense that their focusing their resources on increasing the power efficiency of their new CPUs. And, to be frank, with thin and light laptops you probably won't be using them for tasks more strenuous than music or photo editing, which even my 2012 macbook air can still do just fine. I do wonder what their new Desktop and workstation laptop chips are going to look like when those come out though. Edit: On the IO side of things, the two main IO ports that I look for when buying a laptop are USB-A and SD/MicroSD card reader. As someone who values using an actual camera for photography, as well as someone who does drone photography and GIS map creation having the correct port to offload my files is rather important in a laptop. Things like USB-C and HDMI ports are nice to have, but I consider those to be bonus features rather than necessary. I'm still miffed that my desktop doesn't have an SD port and I didn't buy a motherboard with an extra IO port, so I had to buy an external card reader -_-

[@redstormpopcorn]

9:40 There's about a half-millimeter height difference in the spec for HDMI and USB-A ports. Having one but not the other is just insane.

[@marufbepary100]

I'm in the market for a laptop and this seems to be the perfect SoC powering it. I would like something to be able to do some AI workloads on the go. Obviously I will still have something for serious at home but this could be great if Intel is to be believed. I hope there is a new Yoga 9 powered by this soon as I am really liking that laptop.

[@SCEzeric]

I keep wondering if you (intel, apple, etc) could just have a tiered memory setup, like the old days of an SSD and HDD. You get that cheap substantial upgradability while having the super fast on-die memory.

[@Dominus_Potatus]

I mean... it would be hard but I like the concept. The problem with computer hardware is you follow the lowest performance one. If you have 2 kits of 2x8 GB RAM, usually your computer can run it okay as long as your XMP setting is set at the worst of both. In case of the laptop... on-die Memory has significantly higher frequency than any memory module, maybe CAMM2 could solve... but seeing how Intel offers on-die memory... we know that it might be the end of any laptop.

[@e21big]

It's not about the performance but powerful efficiency. Having a modular memory will cost you power, regardless of whether you end up using them or not (unless you include a manual switch to toggle that on and off)

[@SCEzeric]

@@Dominus_Potatus oh yeah, I forgot about that. RAM is a bit finicky with speed and timing across multiple dimms. You would have to seperate them in some way to run at different speeds which sounds complicated. CAMM2 could help, but I'm guess the end of upgradeable Laptop memory is near as well and I hate it for... Anti-corporate reasons.

[@SCEzeric]

@@e21big also true, and very important in laptops, but we know this is coming to "devices formally known as desktops" at some point just for the control it gives manufacturers. An alternative would be great in that case. Again I agree on laptops though.

[@yensteel]

It`s too difficult to put something faster than ram and similar to cache as something upgradable. I've thought about it before, to use the other side of the socket, but it's gonna be marginally better than ram.

[@IvoPavlik]

Finally, Intel! Took you a while.

[@alanmay7929]

they just had to work TSMC

[@jadusiv]

I want a lunar lake pc to replace my nvidia shield. Seems like it will make an amazing mini pc for a television. I’ll also be able to run steam on it and play the majority of non aaa games. Best media pc ever. Can’t wait until we see these come out in some small, quiet little boxes.

[@HardwareCanucks]

Something we didn't have time to really cover is the upgraded media engine. VVC encode is a big deal

[@Son37Lumiere]

I got a Minisforum UM773 lite I'm using as an HTPC, about $330 after storage and ram. The 7735HS and 680m is overkill for 4k 60 HDR. I also use it for streaming AAA games from my main PC running steam.

[@MaheerKibria]

So this might be a hot take but I don’t really feel like I need type A ports on my laptop. I don’t want a spider web of cables on my desk. I want to run one cable from my laptop to a a hub or KVM and have everything connected to that. Which is weird since I love the extra ports on my desktop and always feel like Motherboard manufacturers skimp on USB. But on a laptop It doesn’t bother me.

[@jelipebands1700]

Based on all the apus I have used 16gigs of shared ram is not enough. I wish they had started with 24gigs of ram and had the 32gig option

[@mrbobgamingmemes9558]

Yeah, no matter what laptop you make usb type A should be there, regardless the segment. Whats the point of super light and portable laptop if you forced to rely on dongle thats reduce portability anyway ?

[@mtadc1545]

SCREW USB A. Everyone needs to adapt to USBC. I’m sick of PC cases still only having at most just ONE Type C port.

[@mariopenulli1395]

Finally someone says it!

[@KeyT3ch]

x86 is back! Can't believe they wrecked ARM in battery life and power efficiency, all while having higher performance

[@riba2233]

Arm is heavily overhyped

[@high-captain-BaLrog]

Well it's an SoC approach to a semi conductor which doesn't need to emulate anything, give it time, i hope open source architectures overtake all of them

[@ricky4673]

​@@high-captain-BaLrogOpen Source has some issues. Many dollars spent to make programs run more efficiently on a given hardware chip. Who is going to spend that money if the chip does not have a multi billion dollar company behind it?

[@high-captain-BaLrog]

@@ricky4673 an enterprising nation who wants to create a semiconductor history of their own? Heck why doesn't the new iron curtain do it? Haha it's a passing thought anyway

[@A-BYTE64]

@@riba2233 yes

[@uganda7230]

Intel should cut down on PR like this and actually deliver on the ground

[@SitWithAnkit]

Intel has always delivered. They only exception is gamers.

[@dqskatt]

If only people still riding intel like 2018 or like they do to AMD nowadays. Intel show us, it consumes like 20w less than AMD and consume 5-10w less than Snapdragon X Elite while still being faster than both.

[@high-captain-BaLrog]

But this is just an explainer video, they (reviewers) aren't singing praises yet just implying that the marketing numbers from Intel seem legit

[@dqskatt]

It not like I hated AMD, If only they actually produce enough to meet the consumer demand instead of focusing their resource on data centre. AMD laptop is good on theory, but availability isn't it, AMD supply chain issue new like fail to meet Vendor like ASUS and Lenovo always popup every month.

[@789know]

@@dqskatt Also AMD doesn't seems to care too much about caring about Laptop OEM demand. They focus more on data center and desktop market at least from some report I heard.

[@r.k.vignesh7832]

There's barely any difference between the lowest version of the Core 7 stack and the flagship Core 9, other than the higher minimum TDP.

[@HardwareCanucks]

Yeah. It really is quite confusing, especially when you consider most laptops using these will be housing the Ultra 7 256V / 258V.

[@drewnewby]

Great overview, I think the biggest news is what probably won't be emphasized in Intel's materials, the move to TSMCs 3nm node. My understanding is flagship 288V is faster than the HX 370 only in single core, so the reviews should be interesting.

[@ContraVsGigi]

I think that 268V is also faster in single core.

[@drewnewby]

@FlorinArjocu The point being only in single core, so either would be a hard sell.

[@ContraVsGigi]

@@drewnewby A very light, 1 kilo laptop, will not be used for heavy processing tasks in 99% of the cases. Most regular use is single core and at that, it is leading (except M4).

[@drewnewby]

@FlorinArjocu I'm well aware of the use case, and no even those tasks are not single core. Background processes at idle are single core, not application use. Where do people come up with these ideas...

[@mimo5383]

That top gaming chip will be super interesting to see in mini desktop and hand held gaming PC's. I see no point to upgradable system memory and the space savings will lead to much smaller NUC style desktop PC's. Fascinating time to be alive.

[@TheBigBazzy]

So happy to see Intel coming strong. I have 2 laptops with the gen 1 ultra chips and they are pretty good so far. But we need MORE. I wouldn't be surprised if even Apple goes back to Intel at some point.

[@worldtownfc]

Intel's last stand is here. A solid successor to Meteor Lake, Lunar Lake looks like serious progress for low-power laptops against Apple, AMD, and Qualcomm. By the end of Q2 2024, Intel sold 15 million plus Meteor Lake CPUs, which Lunar Lake needs to surpass to keep Intel alive. By the end of the year, Arrow Lake for desktop is Intel's golden opportunity to deliver efficiency and performance wins, and Battle Mage graphics cards have to be somewhat profitable and deliver the best value to gamers for Intel to salvage their consumer GPU division. Intel is walking a fine line between life or death as the vultures are flying above them with Qualcomm and other tech giants rumored to be interested in acquiring them.

[@innosanto]

Meteor lake is also very good chip imo.

[@JohnSmithisnotme]

Windows gaming consoles will be great next year

[@TotallyNotEvil910]

So, just get the 258V and don't think too hard about it? Full-fat cache and GPU, most of the clock speed, 32 GB of RAM.

[@mariopenulli1395]

Yes, most laptops come with the 258V (or the 16GB version).

[@hofweb]

But can I screenshare in a Zoom meeting without the fans ramping up.

[@mrbobgamingmemes9558]

Cpu like this should not make the laptop sound like jet fighter when you do screenshare on zoom. Unless the laptop brand have crappy cooling or 💩 tier thermal paste .in most case it is the paste

[@hofweb]

@@mrbobgamingmemes9558 That is literally the problem with Intel Evo products. They rarely have proper thermal management. Also, Zoom is terribly resource-intensive compared to other products in the space.

[@brads2041]

For the love of god, I hope the soldered memory is dual channel, if that still exists

[@HardwareCanucks]

Dual rank, dual channel

[@frikynikkid]

Havent seen Dimitry for a minute. Hope hes is doing well.

[@mraei]

Lunar Lake efficiency advantage is in large part the result of using a better process node than Amd and Qualcomm

[@saurabhg5890]

So for someone interested in a solid business laptop with capabilities to run those STEM applications as well, would you recommend to still opt for the Meteor Lake H series vs these Lunar Lake ones?

[@ContraVsGigi]

Lunar or, if you need multicore, Arrow Lake, but in 2-3 months. I would not go for a temporary band-aid, these new architectures are much much better.

[@saurabhg5890]

​@@ContraVsGigibut he does mention at 9:00 that the CPUs on Lunar Lake are thread deficient. And the comparison at 4:55 also shows that they operate in lower power than the H series.

[@ContraVsGigi]

@@saurabhg5890 I agree, but if he needs strong multicore, this is not it., see the numbers, he will be better with AMD and even better with Arrow Lake in ~December. For anything else, sure.

[@12100F]

5:24... but you forgot to mention Arrow Lake-U, which is a Meteor Lake-U refresh with the CPU tile on Intel 3 instead of Intel 4. That's going to overlap confusingly with Lunar Lake a lot.

[@HardwareCanucks]

From our understanding Arrow Lake U won't be rolled into the laptop market.

[@davitdavid7165]

Honestly like the naming scheme, hope amd and qualcomm take a hint. It does leave room for lower options though, i fear in 3 years we will have ultra cpus with 4 or 8 gigs and i dont like that

[@chiyolate]

Get rid of the 5,7,9, as it's already representated by the 2,3,5,6,8 behind the 2 (series) number.

[@curio78]

more Intel ad.. where are the laptops? its been a month after their "RELEASE"

[@ayohughes]

Finally, finally, finally it looks like Intel have realised at last that the thin and light segment requires an entirely different product philosophy to desktops or gaming/powerhouse laptops. Instead of the standard metrics of core counts and speed they realised that the OEM and the end user needs efficiency; low heat and better battery life. Additional performance has become superfluous - general/productivity users just don't need it but they do want quieter fans, cooler chassis, longer battery life and no drop in performance off mains power. Lunar Lake is the low heat, efficient SoC that newer, thinner & sleeker form factors from ASUS and also Dell's XPS Plus require. Hopefully Lenovo and HP and the others will follow suit as well and we get an equivalent leap in form factor design over the next couple of years. The Yoga family especially need a brand new look.

[@Elinzar]

Either bring usb A ports back, or include a dongle with a bunch of them

[@ole7736]

Regarding ports: XPS 13 with only one TB per side? Would've easily fitted two per.

[@Javadamutt]

I've been saying it since the M1 macbooks but nothing under £500 never mind £1000 should come with 8GB. I expect that with onboard memory that there should be cost savings and looking forward 16GB should be the minimal for £300-£700ish range. Certainly the £1000 range 32GB should be the standard

[@AgentZeroNine1]

RIP Windows/Linux on ARM. Also, let USB-A die already, jeez. Nothing new is shipping to utilize a USB-A port. Get yourself a dongle and call it a day. On laptops, we should have 2-4 USB4 ports, a 3.5mm headphone jack and a full sized SD card slot. If its a gaming laptop, a USB-C to Ethernet jack dongle should be included in the box.

[@mrbobgamingmemes9558]

Are you drunk or something ? .Dongle will reduce portability despite being light weight. 1,4 kg laptop is easier to carry fhan 1,2 kg ones that need 2 or more dongles. remember, lunar lake cpu is made for super portable thin and light laptop

[@innosanto]

Qualcomm has just started and has made a great first gen product.

[@junk3386]

IMHO, the "most controversial of everything" is to move the memory onto the chip so OEMs cannot expand the RAM to their liking anymore! Intel is going down the road with Apple... Most users don't care whether an ultra light notebook has hyperthreading or not since this is not a gaming laptop. Laptops of the past couple of years have more power on the go than the average Joe would ever need! My personal issue is indeed power consumption bc most of my laptops (of which I have more than 7) don't last throughout a 4+ hour Zoom meeting without charging.

[@HardwareCanucks]

I think there's a ton of benefits to it though. Space savings, lower latencies, OEMs being forced to default to 16GB minimum...and so on

[@dqskatt]

LPCAMM2/CAMM2 isn't norm yet so it's normal, Everyone doing this nowadays for the sake of saving space, efficiency. DIMM module we use on laptop and desktop is very old and outdated.

[@charleswidmore5458]

Rank 1 at 16gb and rank 2 at 32gb is fine but they need a rank 3 at 48gb and 4 at 64gb to make me want a laptop lack of memory makes open tabs, streaming music, watching videos and the other kinds of stuff I use a computer for suck. I also don't care for the tiny form factor. If I am going to use a laptop it is getting hooked to a giant monitor, speakers, a real mouse and a keyboard so plenty on ports too

[@moist_ointment]

Why is there a spiderweb of cables going into your laptop? The corporate world has long standardized around a USB-C dock at each deck for a single plug into the laptop. More than one cable into a laptop when working at a desk is jank

[@SeanLi-i7n]

One reason is that the design was hobbled by the poor fab as Intel kinda always wants to build chips in-house. Now Pat decided that that cannot go on so he let TSMC to make the Lunar lake compute-tile. The other thing is now Intel has the urgency to catch up - while it is fortunate that its Atom division finally grows mature to exceed in the efficiency game.

[@moist_ointment]

@@SeanLi-i7n I think you responded to the wrong comment. However, LNL being built on TSMC N3B was decided by Pat's predecessor. Intel prepaid for the wafers from TSMC 4 years ago. They *had* to use them because the CEO at time wasn't confident that Intel 3 would be ready in time. Intel moves back in house next year with Panther Lake on 18A

[@HardwareCanucks]

Because it can. ;)

[@charleswidmore5458]

@@HardwareCanucks what do they mean by the nps section of a cpu?

[@dgillies5420]

Just so we have the ground rules straight : Intel is currently #4 in laptop CPU technology. Qualcomm is #3. AMD is #2. Apple is #1. The market is taking some time to pull away from Intel which has flooded the market with garbage at firesale prices, but most people know better than to buy a current Intel laptop anywhere near MSRP ...

[@yamerojones]

Chromebooks have had hyperthreading disabled for a while now.

[@clwoni1414]

Great review. Which Laptop is he using, does anyone know ? Lenovo Logo is it the 9i ?

[@HardwareCanucks]

7i Aura Edition

[@clwoni1414]

@@HardwareCanucks Thanks so much!

[@TherconJair]

More competition is better: yes, but Intel has an iron fist on the laptop market, and that includes the manufacturers.

[@HardwareCanucks]

Which is perfectly OK since its not like AMD is even trying at this point. Their Strix Point APUs still aren't available in volume and supposedly they're double the price as Ryzen 8000 series.

[@TherconJair]

@@HardwareCanucks AMD has been trying, but they are up against two competitors who are both bigger and have bigger coffers. Intel has been trying to keep them out of the market and AMD likely decided that the return is not worth the outsided investment to break the wall that Intel built and rather focus on the server market where they were actually able to break in. TL;DR: de facto monopolies are bad and once they exist they are near impossible to break into for competitors.

[@or1on89]

@@HardwareCanucksStop sucking up. Between Intel and Nvidia we are living again a Pentium 4 situation where broken chips are being sold s the messiah. It’s ridiculous seeing you folks defending Intel this way…0 credibility.

[@_taho]

Who is asking for thinner and lighter laptops? Are the current ones with soldered memory not enough? The pursuit for faster and more efficient methods is admirable, but being thinner and lighter isn't one of them.

[@HardwareCanucks]

In this case it's thinner, lighter along with space savings that could lead to larger battery capacity, less expensive devices and more.

[@Noodles.FreeUkraine]

It's about having thin and light laptops that are also efficient.

[@MercuryCater]

I still think they should use 2nd Gen Ultrabook branding than Evo.

[@fernandomustachioso9737]

Sure, why not use -16 for 16gb and -32 for 32gb. Can't make it too clear.

[@isbestlizard]

I think lunar lake for thin and light but strix halo for mobile workstation is the way i'll be going

[@owen99412]

Arrow Lake-HX is better strix halo

[@ksenchy]

So for the next five years after this, they brute force voltages again so they win on benchmarks?

[@abhishekmaurya4665]

I am confused here, are they some high end thin and light or for productivity and browsing.

[@patrickmacmillan]

Both, why choose or limit yourself?

[@abhishekmaurya4665]

@@patrickmacmillan except you cannot, not enough core for multi threaded workload, also despite way better performance per watt cpu is still anemic, while still too expensive to be called above entry level or mid level, so weird product placement. But competition is good, Intel needs a win to keep amd on toes.

[@lycanthoss]

High end thin and light. It has decent performance, but will get easily outclassed by larger, beefier laptops. However it will have amazing battery life.

[@abhishekmaurya4665]

@@lycanthoss then I want to do some serious work, I would get that beefier laptop, if it's just ms office and browsing then there are far cheaper options here, I am just saying that Intel marketing is misleading us to buying something that this laptop is not.

[@nathanfranck5822]

Finally my intel stock portfolio has a chance

[@mr.nobody3862]

Better than macbook pro?

[@lamaistul]

I love this, great for business laptops of which I buy hundreds every year.

[@roccociccone597]

co pilot plus is literally a reason for me to avoid a laptop like the plague... Well actually... Windows makes me avoid a laptop like the plague.

[@VicharB]

Personally, I am looking forward to Zen 6 series for next upgrade. Hope it brings substantial upgrades to my current 7840U based EliteBook notebook.

[@high-captain-BaLrog]

Release date when?

[@dqskatt]

AMD laptop is good on theory, but availability isn't it, AMD supply chain issue new like fail to meet Vendor like ASUS and Lenovo always popup every month.

[@A-BYTE64]

maybe Zen 10

[@GameHEADtime]

What screen is that on your heat sink lol?

[@gailplatt1]

Ever since I was little I've been buying budget laptops every few years with new intel processors but the low budget 1s and they never get faster I literally just hold the power button on my laptop to turn it off because of constant crashes and stutters even though Thiers ram and the CPU is at 50 percent .intel have been the top dog for years and that made them not inovate or even try

[@MrAkaacer]

Its results are great but I'm a bit disappointed that they have to go the SoC route. Just another step in the destruction of real CPU innovation.

[@Marti77e]

The new naming is ok but when next gen is released they destroy it again.

[@niyazzmoithu20]

Wish the new laptops have latest Oculink/thunderbolt 5 port 😐.

[@Violet-ui]

what speakers are those on the desk in the background?

[@HardwareCanucks]

Edifier..can't remember the exact model but I bought them like 10 years ago.

[@GoofieNewfie]

Now if all the brands of windows laptops or x86 laptops would stop making plastic junk. New chips, aluminum chassis, lets go. I am not a fan of Macbooks, I have one for work, but you would have to be blind to not to see the differences between a Mac and another plastic not so fantastic hp, dell, Asus etc. Surface laptop 2 is really the only other quality chassis and it has its own issues. Yes I have one on those too.

[@ContraVsGigi]

All laptop makers have full Al chassis on the higher tier laptops.

[@L1ckdiznuts]

new video from hardware canucks just dropped* it's that guy 💀

[@Eternalozzie]

Do these use arc gpu or lower quality Intel ?

[@HardwareCanucks]

ARC with XE2

[@Zeni-th.]

New Xe2 arch, it will be used in battlemage

[@Shuttterbugg]

Ya but for desktop cpus hyperthreading gone is a huge problem..watch

[@HardwareCanucks]

Actually we'd welcome the death of hyperthreading for desktop gaming PCs.

[@kevinurben6005]

My office is fitted with power sockets so battery life is not so important for me.

[@CANEHURRICANE]

are these lunar lake cpus helpful and realistically usuable to ppl working with LLMs Locally?

[@GlobalWave1]

I’m guessing somewhat but this laptop is only limited to 32gb of ram so that’s the limiting factor, unlike the MacBook Pro 128gb.

[@HardwareCanucks]

Not until the NPU is further fleshed out feature and software wise. Though the GPU can easily run LLMs.

[@Zeni-th.]

RAM is gonna be your limiting factor, But the lms it can house in ram are gonna run fast.

[@bbzbabus]

how long do u think lunarlake gonna hit the market? im thinking on buying new laptop, coz my sis hoggin the macbook air every single day :")

[@HardwareCanucks]

A few laptops will be available in October with a whole lot more in November.

[@Dominus_Potatus]

So... for 2nd hand market in the future, you will have thinner, lighter, but not upgradeable RAM. 8GB was enough 10 years ago, 16 GB won't be enough 10 years later. So, 2nd hand market in the future will have a decent chip but held back by RAM capacity...

[@HardwareCanucks]

By and large, there wasn't a single thin and light laptop with upgradeable memory in the last 2 or so years.

[@patrickmacmillan]

You do know that for the last decade thin-and-light laptops have had soldered memory and sometimes WiFi chips too, right? No difference. Now it's on the CPU instead of the motherboard.

[@Dominus_Potatus]

ah... so it is for Ultrabook, why don't they just use the trademarked word. Understandable.

[@Zeni-th.]

Just buy a new laptop bruh, why r you waiting a whole decade

[@MichalBrat]

There are rumors about new AMD graphics drivers that are supposed to boos their HX-370 quite a bit... are you able to confirm, please?

[@HardwareCanucks]

We've heard nothing of the sort. The latest drivers we have actually regress performance in some games but improve overall stability in a few games.

[@MichalBrat]

@@HardwareCanucks Thanks! 👍

[@Joftar]

On one hand, i really want lunar lake to be as amazing as promissed, On the other, i really want windows on arm to succeed. Realistically both platforms can't coexist. Development will favor one, and the other be neglected

[@JayDee-b5u]

Would it be possible to add a controller to make external RAM a type of secondary memory? Or would it not be of much benefit? I have to think that for some applications it would help.

[@Noodles.FreeUkraine]

I wish I could give you five extra upvotes for demanding a USB-A requirement.

[@kaspersergej]

Please let USB-A die!

[@SuperRomanHoliday]

I feel hypnotised ...

[@gcardinal]

lol so basically 2 CPU chip's binned according to its capabilities and slapt on a larger package? it will indeed make production much cheaper

[@HardwareCanucks]

We're already seeing this in the laptop prices. The Slim 7i Aura Edition is launching for under $1300 with an OLED screen, 16GB & 512GB SSD. That will make it VERY hard for Qualcomm to compete.

[@gcardinal]

@@HardwareCanucks well it all depends if it will be able to run stable diffusion or LLM’s anything else isnt a selling point

[@乾淨核能]

wow memory inside CPU, now INTEL is gonig the apple route of unified memory?

[@harryp3804]

When is Arrow lake coming mate ??

[@HardwareCanucks]

Later this year on the desktop side, likely CES on the laptop side with (maybe) some early stuff before that in very late 2024.

[@Djneil777]

No hyper-threading.... 🤔

[@charleswidmore5458]

gotta makes some cuts somewhere to fit all the stuff on one chip. it seems to be a good compromise

[@JS-wl3gi]

Apple needed battery life, Intel is so late to the game when the competition is pretty good.

[@tonyk4447]

i thought arrow lake is only for desktop so arrow lake can be like raptor lake hx chips?

[@moist_ointment]

Arrow Lake is the main chip this gen. It'll be used in H series, HX, and desktop. LNL is a new category for Intel specifically focusing on sub 20W models. Laptops that want higher performance at 30+ watts should be arrow Lake. LNL perf/watt drops off above 20W

[@eric131313]

When we will be able to see real world benchs from reviewers, intel always sounds nice in slides 😂

[@HardwareCanucks]

Tuesday.