Harley-Davidson Sportster XL1200CA v Triumph Bonneville Speedmaster

After 40,000 miles on my Sportster (and 500 on my Speedmaster), it's time to put these bikes up against each other.

[@someguitarguy.]

Very nice vid. Also enjoyed your Sportster history series. I currently ride a 2002 883R. Love the carb and solid mounts, not to mention the look and feel. TWD

[@jasonrose6562]

Loved your video. It’s true. People get all defensive with their stock bike making 150hp and it’s 150mph+ capability. That’s great if you live near the autobahn. In America, our speeds are slow. Here’s what it comes down to and you hit the nail on the head, what “experience” are you after? I bought a Sporty 1200T. Raised it up in back and did slightly louder slipons with a tune. It’s perfect for cruising. I’ve owned Suzukis, Triumphs and Hondas. The Sporty is in a league of it’s own for experience. Just as a classic UJM is and a classic Ducati. It all comes down to what you prefer. As long as people are riding safe and enjoying the ride, that’s all anyone can ask for.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Jason - I loved my Sportster (2016 XL1200C). I raised the rear suspension too (320mm, though I wish I'd gone to 340mm). I couldn't aford exhaust - but would have loved to! I was certainly 'enjoying the ride', but with no electronics, I decided to change. Speedmaster is a whole new world, and I love it. But I do miss the Sportster and, dare I say it, the Harley-ness. Cheers, Chris

[@namduran]

Great video. Thanks for sharing. I look forward to hearing about the upgrades you mention and whether they work…

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Nigel - thanks for the positve comment. I was going to blank an 'update' video 'cos I figured no-one would care. But you have swayed me! I'll sort a video out this week. Cheers Nigel, Chris

[@Ian-bq7gp]

I love the 961 norton. I remember riding the original norton commando 750 fastback. I loved the torque, the handling and exhaust note which was better than my BSA A10. I do believe a good late secondhand Norton 961 is a bargain, beautiful paint, finish and a basic simple bike. Ive never had any bike put a smile on my face like the norton. Just beautiful and there are very few bikes with the same character or handling. I grew up with bikes like the yamaha XS2 which did tankslapers on bends but it had a 750 big bore kit on it and the 1970s kawasaki z650 wasnt much better but its motor was indestructable. Like the GS1000, 750 i absolutely hammered them especially in Australia where i did 260 miles in under 3 hours two up. Great times and sadly those days are way way way back in the 1980s. The days of army greens, german paratrooper boots and an old leather jacket and cheap skid lid.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Ian - I must have missed this yesterday. Nice to hear from you again! I too had a Z650, and loved it. I never found the handling to be bad though, pretty much perfect (for 1980). But thinking back to the awful helmets of the day...! As you say, price can be everything when you're 18. Never had boots from a German paratrooper though. Cool! Cheers, Chris

[@dhc8guru]

Nice video. Now they only put the Revolution Max engine in the Sportster lineup. The two bikes are probably almost identical in specs now except the Sportster puts out 90 HP but still only has one front disc brake. So, kiss away your favorite feature of the low end torque and potato sound. The Rev max engine sounds very similar to the 1200 Bonnie engine.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Guru - thank you for the video compliment. I asked at the local dealer if the Rev Max bikes sell well, and he said they did. Still, I've only seen three Rev Max bikes out in the wild in the couple of years since release. (Perhaps all the owners don't ride them much?) Either way, I've not been able to get close to hear a Rev Max engine and compare it. It would be an interesting excersise as I love the Speedmaster sound! Cheers, and thanks again, Chris

[@wilko527]

I like both the Sportster and the Speedmaster. Having owned the Sportster xl1200n in 2007. I've since had quite a few bikes, the last one being BMWs latest boxer, the R1250R. An awesome bike. Yet nothing comes close to the feeling you get riding the Sportster, just makes you smile. The BMW had loads more power on paper 136HP, but I swear the sportster felt quicker with only half the HP with that instant delivery. I've not ridden the Triumph yet. But looks-wise they nailed it.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Well, I'm not keen on sports bikes, but I agree with the rest of what you say. The Speedmaster is a real 'handsome bike'. As for the Sportster power, one guy had a Sportster and a Ducati V-twin Panagle: he said that in first gear, the Sportster was faster. Fancy! Cheers, Chris

[@raybrensike42]

@@chrisoftheot6272 There is a big difference between a long stroke, low rpm motor and one that makes horsepower by spinning a short stroke motor with high rpm's. They are too different animals. The Sportster should be faster off the line than anything else, right off of idle. Nothing else should even come close to its acceleration at low rpm. Off of idle it is the fast one, but as soon as the rpm's get above 3,000, that begins to change. So where do I like to ride? I do my riding at lower rpm. Others like to be the first one to the end of the 1/4 mile. Others like the low rpm grunt. It seems we don't' get both out of the same bike. I would like to see some roll-on tests with a Sportster and a Speed Master side by side starting off at 500 rpms in each of the gears. Which one is faster up until when? That's not really how we ride. However, it might be revealing, and it might help many of us understand the difference between motors and their design.

[@graw4868]

Great video, thanks. Harley or Triumph. I've got the Street Twin atm but often think of which to go for next.

[@omarsalgado9715]

Actually, FI Sportsters run about 19/23 km per litre, depending on traffic conditions and throttle use. So, a 17 litre tank should go a 323 km minimum range in total consumption. Reserve light always turns on when 2/3 capacity is consumed.

[@carlsitler9071]

I had to sell my Fat Boy in 2018 but I recovered and now I'm on a Triumph America. Due to my custom backrest, the Bonneville is more comfortable. That being said, I'm selling it to get my friend's mint 1200 Sportster Low with Screaming Eagle stage one and pipes.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Carl - glad you've 'recovered' mate. I've never ridden the air-cooled America/Speedmaster but I reckon selling yours to get the Sportster is brave. Good luck to ya! (Longer shocks & Russel Cycle Products seat are, surely, a must?!) Cheers, Chris

[@christianmaravelias231]

Thanks! I completely agree. The Sportster is the only opportunity to ride and own a (relatively) new bike that works perfectly but still rides like a piece of history. The vibrations, the sounds, the torque, the man-made machine like character is one of a kind. Moto Guzzi was once like that - now its only Harley Davidson - and regrettably only the big ones since the real sportster is gone.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Hi Christian - yes, the Sportster is one-of-a-kind. And now it's gone... Ooooh, don't get me started on that one! How could the genius that is Jochen Zeitz make such a horrible decision? Well, I guess that's why he's a gazzilionaire CEO, and I'm... not. Sigh! Cheers, Chris

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

The EVO Sportsters have hydraulic valve adjustment and belt drive.All you have to do is change the fluids and filter in 30 minutes in my driveway. Speedmaster has a chain drive and a engine that requires expensive dealer service. You never have to mess with the valves. Belts last 100,000 + miles. Chains require lots of maintenance. Then you have the cost of replacing all the parts. Constantly. Handling in a country that has slow painted on the roads. God look at all the buttons on the handlebar.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Hi Frank - Yep, belt drive is just one of the many upgrades & conversions I'd love to be able to afford on my Speedmaster. Still, I have to say that the Speedmaster is a better motorcycle than the Sportster - as it should be - but it doesn't stop me missing my Sportster. One day, I'd love to build my own Sportster - but not today! Cheers, Chris

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

@@chrisoftheot6272 I have had my Sportster for 25 years and 400,000 miles on the original engine and 37 back tires and 17 front ones and 3 belts in 25 years. Your bike may be faster and better handling but it is disposable. My Sportster is rebuidlable forever ♾️. I have had my Triumph Tr-6 with a hard tail and magneto for 40 years. Reliable and dependable transportation. At 50 years old replaced the camshafts and the sludge trap was almost full. Now she is good for another 50 years. Commuted with both of them for years. When the electronics start to fail they will be too expensive to replace. All you guys complain about major services costing so much. My TR-6 is easy to work on. Valve adjustment and oil changes are simple to do. My home state of Florida is bigger than England. Riders here put tens of thousands of miles on our motorcycles. I put 250,000 miles on my CX500 in 10 years.All of my Honda's died from cam chain breaking and causing catastrophic engine failure. Gear drive like my Sportster and my Triumph last forever. My Sportster has outlasted all of my Honda's put together. I just had the carburetor cleaned for the first time in 25 years. Vintage motorcycles are rebuidable forever. They were never meant to be disposable. They are quality machines. Today's motorcycles are a collection of government regulations on 2 wheels. Today's motorcycles are like margarine pretending to be butter 🧈.

[@mattgoodmangoodmanlawnmowi2454]

Matt’s dad here. 1200cc & less than 100 hp. Glad I bought an 02 Daytona 955i with a stage 1 tune runs close to twice that. Stock it’s just under150 horsepower. One of the best bikes ever.

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@robertmiller5607]

I had a Sportster, the Iron 1200 and the 3gallon peanut tank was my biggest complaint the ride was rough but it’s still not a hard tail. The mustang tour seat helped loads. Hands down my favorite I’ve owned out of 14 different bikes. I’m getting a 2018 speed master this spring 🤩 these do sound beautiful it won’t sound as good as my sporty did but I’m content.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Wow, 14 bikes is quite a haul. I loved my Sportster (obviously), but when I tried the 48 I HATED the tiny tank. Really stupid. And the shocks on Sportsters are dreadful, but longer Hagons helped a huge amount there. Glad you're getting a Speedmaster. When I first tested one, I remember come back to the dealer saying, "It's a different world to a Sportster!" Comfort, engine, sound, braking, handling, handling & handling were so much better. (The sound is superb!) Enjoy it Robert :-) Cheers, Chris

[@johnanderson9735]

I have had a 2012 Sportster 1200 it was definitely fun to ride, but extremely hot added to a hot summer day. I’m on the way to getting a Speedmaster, the looks, the torque I felt during the test ride was awesome. This will be my 1st Triumph.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning John - hey, glad you're taking the plunge! The Speedmaster really is on a different level to the Sportster (though not for engine heat, sadly). And, even though it's heavier, the Speedmaster feels lighter: wonderful! It's also my first Triumph. I shall always love my Sportster, but I need the electrics & handling. I'm gettin' on see... Cheers, Chris

[@user-ps5dc5gh6b]

Enjoyed your analysis. Have a 2021 SM after getting off a 2018 Ultra. I’d rate the HD a little more comfortable, but not by much. Have also had a Sportster, Deluxe, and Road King. While I loved my Triumphs (T100s, Bobber, and 2020 Thunderbird) in the past, I still miss the sounds and vibrations of Harleys.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon User - yes, I understand the 'missing the sounds and vibrations of Harleys'. I miss my Sportster - especially the rhythm of the engine. It's low-reving, irrelgular cycle is almost intoxicating! So, even though the Speedmaster is a better bike (and I love it), I STILL miss the Sportster! Cheers, Chris

[@rileyreynolds2663]

Where did you get the handlebars on the sportster?

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Riley - they were Khrome Werks Stretch Heritage Bar: 300043, but they don't make them anymore. Sorry mate. Chris

[@rileyreynolds2663]

@@chrisoftheot6272 thanks man. Too bad they discontinued. Pretty neat with a lot of pull back.

[@BigAl53750]

Later model Sportys don’t thrill me at all I’m afraid. Sorry. I’ll take my ’97 (with a Hammer 1275 kit and 2-1 system) over the later models for many reasons. The weight for a start, too many tech gizmos for a second, and the fact that they look all bunched-up and plumpy. The fact that the ’97 weighs at least FIFTY kilos less than the later ones makes a world of difference in many ways, especially braking. The brakes on my 97 work just fine, and in combination with the massive amount of engine braking available with the 10:1 compression ratio added to the flywheels you mention, means that it will stop very smartly indeed, if you need it to. I upgraded the shocks to 14” Progressives a long while back and the ground clearance is better than my mate’s Jota (which pisses him off no end!). I like the twisties on my Sporty, where I just park the gearlever in second and just roll on and roll off the throttle as needed. 2nd gear is good for up to 100kph (60mph) without over revving it and on tight, twisting mountain roads, that is quite fast enough thanks very much! In the 50 years since I started riding, I have never owned a bike that I love as much as this one. As a Triumph man from way back, I NEVER thoght I’d be saying anything like that, but it’s true. Oh, one thing I found after the upgrade was that the MPG figures improved significantly. I now get at least 4.5Litres/100km, or roughly 60mpg, riding it as described above. The best thing about the Hammer upgrade though, is that the Carillo pistons they have specially made for their kits, are as perfectly balanced as you can get and that makes the bike MUCH smoother than the factory 1200’s, which use heavier jugs and not so well made as these. I remember hearing that the 1200’s have a rev limiter on them because of the higher weight pistons, but I’m not sure about that, but I have ridden the 1200’s and the first thing I noticed was that they vibrate a lot more than the 883’s. Both bikes used the exact same bottom end, which is as bulletproof as you could want and that makes it easier to do the conversion. I did a lot of research into the various upgrades available and for my money, Hammer Performance is the best around. I like the Triumphs, but the new ones just don’t FEEL right, without the long-stroke lowdown torque of the early ones. That Sporty has that, in spades!

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Al - well, I've never heard anyone ever say that late model Sportsters 'look all bunched-up and plumpy'! Wow - like a nice pillow? Fancy! I'm going to have to go over pictures now, just to see what you're getting at. Also, I hadn't realised that a 1997 Sportster was 50kg (100lbs+) lighter than later models. Fifty kilos?! That's got to make the world of difference to the handling - one day, I've got to test a rigid mounted Evo Sportster. The suspension was dreadful for ever: I too upgraded (even before I took delivery), but I think I went to 320mm, about 12.5", which was not enough. Your 14"/355mm would have been better - though I'd have gone Hagon here in Britain, not Progressive. But that torque you mention: I miss it still. My Speedmaster is a fab bike, and I wouldn't swap back to a Sportster unless I could get RDRS working - I'll suffer the weight gain in that case. But the wonderful, grunty torque - only the Harleys seem to offer it. I am sad to have lost it! Cheers, Chris

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

My 883 solid mount Sportster don't vibrate parts off or parts cracking. My buddies 80 ci Sportster vibrates like a paint mixer.

[@jaybd9329]

Hey Chris, great video. I have a 2016 Sportster 1200T and it is a torque monster. I upgraded my seat w/backrest, pipes, and went to forward controls and now it’s perfect. Yesterday I went to Triumph store and saw a new Speedmaster and what a good looking bike, and the stock sound was nice. Sounds like you didn’t like the bars or the seat? Did you end up changing them? I agree a windshield is a must.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Jay - thank you for complimenting my video. Yes, I did change the seat & bars, although I do love the beach bars (see my 'Handlebars' video.) The seat was okay, but not wide enough for my lardy buttocks - my 'Releasing It's Full Potential' video describes all that malarkey. As for the screen, I can't manage without one in the Winter, although in the Summer, with a really good backrest, it's okay (sometimes) without. I looked at a 1200T as well, but it was too much money for me back in 2018. If I'd had the dosh, I'd have gone for it because the bags & screen are so good. I guess I'll never stop loving the Sportster... Cheers, Chris

[@raybrensike42]

A lot of the specification information out there is inaccurate. Many times, motorcycle manufactures make subtle changes that affect horsepower and whoever is writing up the specs seems to assume nothing has changed. I bought a Harley XLCH in '79 and I had to run premium gas because they raised the compression that year. Then, they went back to a thicker head gasket. It did make a few horsepower difference. In '85 I bought a K100 RT, and that year had "the hot cam" that gave it 2 more horsepower from what I gathered by reading the specs. Sometimes it was listed as 92 hp, but if you look at the specs now, you likely won't see that given, so there is some difference in spec information out there.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Evening Ray - yes, there is a lot of rubbish spoken (and written) about specs. All I can do is go with the most 'reputable', or perhaps the majority vote if there's a discrpancy. In the end, nearly all specifications need to be taken with pinch of salt, as you imply. Cheers, Chris

[@sebag.8441]

👍

[@donaldelder540]

Can I ask, did you test ride the triumph before you bought it, If you did why did you buy it? You seem very unhappy with the triumph.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Donald - I didn't test ride this Speedmaster 'cos it was in Scotland and I'm in the South West of England. However, I did go do Bridge Motorcycles in Exeter and had around 45 minutes on a 2018 Speedmaster. (The only significant difference I could detect was the exhaust sound - better on the new bikes.) I'm not 'unhappy' with the Speedmaster - far from it. In terms of 'grin factor', the Triumph looses some laughter-lines as it's not as comfy as I need it to be. However, next week it's going for the service & upgrades, which will nail that (re: "releasing it's full potential"). As it happens, last week I went to Barnstaple and, as I was over 500 miles, I rode the A361 back to the M5 - it was so nearly run-in, I couldn't resist... That ride was the first time I felt the love, proper love; just pure, riding love. I wasn't fussing with the gears to keep the revs down & varied, I was just riding. It was wonderful. With the seat, bars, footrests (& even a screen), the bike will be perfect for me. I've never had to run-in anything before: it's pretty tedious. But now that it's sorted - oh, Baby! Cheers Donald, Chris

[@colingoldthorpe5918]

I’m on the fence with the speed master it’s just the wrong size for me @ 6ft. I bought a T120 gold line edition. But I kept my triumph Trophy for long haul touring .

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Colin - yes, I have to agree about the bike size: it is a 'compact' bike. I've just got a Russel Cycle Products seat which I asked them to let me sit as far back as possible. I think I may have over two more inches of leg-room now (so much, in fact, that I can barely reach the handlebars now!) I have some risers being fitted which should gain me 5" of pull-back; and some further forward footrests & (chunky) bracet for, maybe, 4" of more legroom. I'm about to test the seat so we'll see how much it makes a difference on legroom. Still, the Bonneville Goldline is a sweet bike. I've sat on one at the dealer's and it felt very comfortable (I'm about 5' 11"). Cheers, Chris

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@danield831]

Nice detailed comparison. Really enjoyed it. I own a 2018 Triumph Bonneville T120 (1200cc) and hands down it's a far better engineered, better handling, and more sophisticated than any Sportster I've ridden including the one I used to own. I I don't mean to knit-pick here but how do you figure (in your comparison) that the Sportster "wins" in the seat heigh department??!! Absolutely not true. It's all relative and subjective based on the riders height. I always felt cramped on my Sportsters riding position whereas on my Bonnie it's suits me fine. So my friend, I beg to differ on that point but overall a great video, Thanks!!

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Fair point about the seat height Daniel. (I was simply going for 'lowest' - which, I agree, is subjective.) However, I've sat on the T120/T100 many times and it is a very comfortable workspace. In a review, on chap said it was "the most comfortable bike he'd ever ridden". If I could manage without a backrest & extended controls, I'd have gone for a T120... (Although I'm loving my Speedmaster.) Cheers, Chris

[@robclarke7602]

Hi Chris, Excellent video. Thank you for putting it together. I'm curious to see a Speedmaster (which I think is a great looking bike) with the new HD Sportster S.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Rob - thanks for kind words. Yes, the Speedmaster is a looker: I call it 'handsome'. It's a great bike all round. As for comparing the S model to the Speedmaster, it's not something I'll be doing. I sat on the S model and the seat was crazy uncomfortable and, even at standstill, the suspension was, erm, minimal. Anyway, I don't like it, so I'm biased. But if it works for you, go for it (even though a Speedmaster is better :-).) Cheers, Chris

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@phildiegidio4658]

I have a 2014 CA. I agree completely with you on all items. I’m having a hard time with moving forward. At 73 years old, refinement is starting to be a concern. Brakes, suspension and handling are key now. With the EVO no longer in production, my CA has gone up in value. And as you know, the CA is a bit special. Time will tell. Most assuredly.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Phil - many thanks for the comment. I'm glad (& encouraged!) to see that you're still enjoying your Sportster at 73: I hope I'll be there too in a decade. As you so rightly note, priorities change massively with the passage of time and, for me, I had to make the swap from the Sportster. Sad, but required. I agree that the Sportster Custom - especially the A model - is the most wonderful. I'd love to have been able to keep mine. Since the EVO stock is rising nowadays, I'm sure you'll do well to hold on to yours. I do miss the Sportster still - even though the Speedmaster is a (much) better bike. Cheers Phil, Chris

[@phildiegidio4658]

@@chrisoftheot6272 Chris: you made a great choice. The Triumph Bonnie is legendary. And the refinements make it a nicer, and safer bike to ride. Our age concerns are justified. I live near the York, PA factory. In fact, I was part of the install team that put in the first computerized assembly line system at HD after the takeover from AMF back in the early 80’s. Lots of stories to tell. Anyway,that is when I got my taste for the Sportster. I got a chance to see them being built (by hand) and watched the techs work on them. The Sportster just fit right, for me anyway. 6’ 200 lbs. I was 71 when I finally got my first Sportster. A 2012 Custom. I traded it in a year later when the 2014 CA became available. I wasted no time. And now that the EVO is in the past, I know this bike will bring me a little profit. I am currently looking at the Honda Rebel 1100. For all the same reasons that you desired in the Bonnie. You did a nice job on the Sportster history. If it wasn’t for the Sportster, HD may have had a financially tougher time than it did. Enjoy your ride.

[@phildiegidio4658]

Chris…. By the way, my 2014 CA came with a Stage 1 system. What a difference from the stock 1200 in my 2012 Custom. Acceleration is easily 20% quicker. I had to get a Saddleman high back seat to keep my arse in place. I recommend it highly. Nuff said.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Phil - thank you for your kind words, they're much appreciated. (I looked at the Honda Rebel too - superb bike with amazing specs, especially the DCT version. Incredible.) I was stunned - and impressed! - to read that you were part of the 'upgrade' team for AMF/Harley back in the day. That must have been quite an experience - and, maybe, a bit of a priviledge? How did that go? I assume you were working for a sub-contractor? Where you a software guru, or a hardware install guru? I'd love to hear those stories! (If you'd like to share any, you can email my ChrisOfTheOT gmail account; I'll forward my private email, if you fancy sharing. This is history we're talking here, and you are a significant part of it! Now I'm just jealous...) Thanks for commenting Phil: awesome revelation! Cheers, Chris

[@phildiegidio4658]

@@chrisoftheot6272 Chris: I was a contractor working with a computer maintenance company. Hardware guy. At that time HD was only churning out 300 bikes a month. Everything was made at the York plant. Engines and Transmissions came from Milwaukee. What a difference it is now. Robotics everywhere. The plant is 5 times bigger than when I was there. I drove by it a few weeks ago. You should come over for the tour. Yeah, let me know how to stay in touch. Could be fun.

[@skyhill4279]

Nice video Chris but my question is, why did you sell your Sportster? I've owned my Ironhead since it was new in 1977 and won't part with it. Only mechanical changes I've made in all that time are Progressive suspension front and rear, got rid of Keihin carb for a new Bendix with adjustable main jet and a braided brake line and British Ferodo brake pads and shoe liners. I fitted Lester wheels and genuine centre stand also. I have other bikes including Evo big twins but love my XLH Ironhead Sportster. Looking forward to your next video. Stay safe!

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Thanks for the warm wishes Sky. To answer your question (why I sold the Sportster); it was because I want the electronics - traction/cruise/better ABS. I can't afford a Harley tourer, and they're too big for crowed roads, so it was the Speedmaster. And it's getting real good now it's run-in, and the mods are coming on line...! :-) Cheers Sky, Chris

[@skyhill4279]

@@chrisoftheot6272 Thanks for the reply Chris and I can understand about the price of big cruisers as they are well out of my price range. I've had to put lots of extra hours in at work over the years for the bikes I've got. I've never had a bike with ABS and traction control and wouldn't know what to do with it anyway, but I can understand why other riders would want it. Having said that, I do fancy the Pan America and am looking at it seriously. Nothing to do with it's electronics but everything to do with it's looks and riding style. Stay safe and keep the videos coming.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Sky - I'd love to have a classic bike but it'd have to be a second bike. But I can have 'the one and only', as Chesney Hawkes once said, so it's got to do everything. A lovely, old WL or U would be amazing - but I couldn't ride it all the time, for hundreds of miles at a go. (Even if that's what they did in the old days...) So the Speedmaster works really well as a one-size-fits-all. Must be nice to have an original ironhead Sportster though: and from new! Good on ya'. There's a fella' near me who bought a new Super Glide in 1977, and he still has it (plus a TC). He's been all over Europe on it too. I envy you both that! Cheers, Chris

[@skyhill4279]

@@chrisoftheot6272 Hi Chris, my mate has just refurbished his late 70's Superglide and it looks great. Even though my Ironhead is now a vintage motorcycle I don't see it that way. As I bought it new I'm the only person to have worked on it since the factory built it. I have stripped it down to it's component parts and rebuilt it. It starts and runs well and is in exceptional condition. As I keep the end float on the camshafts to the book the engine sounds quiet by Ironhead standards. Yes it's an AMF but as I've had it in bits I know it was put together well at the factory contrary to the rumours that abounded back then about the infighting between workers and AMF. I'll let you know if I go for a Pan America and I look forward to following you on your journey with the new Triumph. Hopefully you'll come back to the Harley-Davidson stable one day. Take care Chris, Kind regards, Sky.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Thanks for the good wishes Sky. Yes, I believe I'll get back to Harley one day (can't resist it!). I've always fancied a Flat Head... Meanwhile, the Speedmaster journey is only just begining: already, it's very different from my Harley journey. Cheers mate, Chris

[@kevincraig8257]

my wife has the same speedmaster and thats what I thought the exhaust cant be beat the bike is beautiful its a 2019 model year

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Kevin - obviously, I agree! (You look a little young to be married though Kev... Just sayin''). Cheers, Chris

[@kevincraig8257]

@@chrisoftheot6272 thats a photo of my grandson when he had leukemia

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Well, he looks incredibly sprightly for a young lad with leukemia. I trust he's fine now. Brave young fella' - I wish him all the best: God bless. Cheers, Chris

[@mattgoodmangoodmanlawnmowi2454]

He convinced himself he didn’t make a mistake selling the HD in only a quarter hour. Much of what he doesn’t like he is hoping will get better after breakin. I’d have kept looking. I think I’ll keep my Daytona 955i. -Matt’s dad

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@hogwylde]

Nice review with a shocking revelation at the end! I am in the same boat as you were except I'll be coming from a 1999 1200XLH Custom that I've own since new. I'm in the market for another bike and am currently doing my homework but I will not get rid of my Sporty regardless what I decide on! There are a few different bikes that have caught my eye and the SpeedMaster is one of them. Ride safe and enjoy that new bike!

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Wyldefella' - that's an interesting post there. Why are you leaving the Sportster fold after so long? (I assume the last 13 years or so have been happy on your Custom?) I'm interested to know which bikes you're looking at as I did a video when I was looking: I thought I'd looked at EVERYTHING! I am enjoying my Speedmaster, especially being more comfortable. Especially. But what are you looking at? Cheers, Chris

[@hogwylde]

@chrisoftheot6272 I would never leave my Sportster! I've owned her since new and she's never let me down in the 23 years I've owned her. I just want something new to add to the garage. I like the SpeedMaster, Street Twin, T120, Gold Wing (non tour), Road King and Heritage Classic. It's a wide range of bikes but realistically, I think I'm down to the Speedmaster and T120.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Sorry mate, I thought you meant you were selling your Sportster. (Poor assumption on my part.) For no sensible reason at all, I'm pleased you're keeping hold of it! Also, thank you for helping with the maths: 23 years, not 13. I fear I may be stuck in 2012... The list of bikes you're looking at is a great one. Having just moved from a 2016 Sportster to a new Speedmaster, I've got to say it's a great move. The most informative part of buying a new bike (for me) was the test ride: coming to a Speedmaster from a Sportster was like moving to a whole new world. It was so different initially that I was actually bewildered! I recomend a test - I expect either the T120 or Speedmaster will be an eye-opener: let me know how you get on, I'd be interested to hear your opinion. Cheers, Chris

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@quidestnunc9238]

@@hogwylde Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@alexmorgan3435]

Spends 3 minutes telling us why he doesn't like specs and stats then spends the rest of the video reading from a spec sheet comparing the stats of the two bikes. LoL. I am looking at getting the exact same Speedmaster 22 in same two tone black and white tank. Gorgeous looking bike. Re the torque. Your observations could well be because the bike is Euro 5 compliant meaning at low revs the bike is running very lean. Tecparts do a fuel booster plug which totally transforms the bike, but not sure if their unit is compatible with Euro 5 maybe only Euro 4 bikes. Also Tecparts say Triumph have put anti-tamper proof software on their ECU so you can't tweak the fueling. Also they do a high lift cam which apparently gives the SM at least another 10bhp and corresponding increase in torque and make the bike rev so much more easily. You can also get a decat pipe for the exhaust to make it more free flowing and the engine more responsive. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGnbhoJ3h7SmeMU You said you were planning to upgrade the seat? What seat have you gone for as although Triumph spec the bike with their 'comfort' seat I found it flippin uncomfortable. Corbin seats from the US are horrendously expensive one you've paid all the import duties, taxes and VAT so a no-no. but Sargent do aftermarket seats maybe it is one of these you're trying?

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Alex - thanks for the reply. I went for a hugely expensive RCP seat - you can see it in my 'Releasing its Full Potential' video. Really nice and I'm glad I forked out. As you noted, the cams & booster plug are only compatable with the Bonnevilles up to about 2018 (not sure exactly). The TEC Bike Parts website says the anti-tamper software stops these tuning options - although the X-pipes seem to be okay, but I have no idea why. Also, I don't want a higher reving engine so I wouldn't go for those cams. (I would like a belt conversion and X-pipe though...) It's a great bike Alex, you'd not be disappointed. Cheers, Chris

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@mattgoodmangoodmanlawnmowi2454]

I like the comparison between these two bikes but sheeesh! Three minutes in and not one spec, but three minutes and running explaining why he doesn’t want to mislead us with data & specs. I feel like he’ll soon do a Jack Nicholson “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE SPECS!”, Colonel Nathan Jessup speech. Plus just tell us weight, seat height, riding position for both. Should be less than 3 minutes and then you can still do your “unquantifiable” factors. Other than that (“how was the play…”). it is good but I hope both bikes get off the line faster than that. /s/ Matt’s dad

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Matt's Dad, "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE SPECS!" That's a corker! I'm going to have to use that in a futre video. Cheers, Chris

[@richardsanders3567]

I’m puzzled You seem to praise the keyless ignition but later weren’t so happy as it scans constantly and flattened the battery Not great

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Richard - 'tiz true that the battery drain is a nuisance. I think it's feeble batteries that are to blame: even with a solar charger, mine didn't last long on the Sportster - but I just got the cheapest. My fault, I suppose... I do like keyless ignition and miss it on my Speedmaster: I keep forgetting to take the key out, and to take it to the bike when I go out in the morning. (This is more because the ignition is down the side of the bike, not in plain view on the dash, where I'm used to it.) Cheers, Chris

[@bruto94thewineracer3]

HI I have a Sportster and I maybe considering in the future to buy a Triumph Speedmaster or 6Bonneville T120 black but I will keep olso my Sportster , because with all the defects it is still one of the most iconic motorcycle impossibile to replicate in a new or more modern bike. Nice video follow me on my channel Bruto94 The WineRacer .

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Thanks Bruto - I'll look at your channel in a moment. And, I agree; the Sportster is unique, flawed perfection. I shall always love them, even though I have a Speedmaster now. (Like you, I'd like to be rich enough to have both bikes. One day!)

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@raybrensike42]

It seems to me that Harley lost its mind to short shock Sportsters like they did. A frame modification under the seat would have worked better along with whatever they would need to change under the seat to accommodate that, and then you could give it a real rear suspension. I ride a short-shocked Sportster, and although the majority of the bumps, though not real pleasant, are bearable. However, it's the 20% of the bumps beyond that, which really jar you bad, and that adds up to a rather horrible rear suspension. Another inch of travel and maybe they could have had a real suspension. I know I could like with a 1inch taller seat height, so it's longer shocks for me sometime in the future. Short-shocking a bike for a lower seat height, amounts to a hack job in my opinion. It's in violation of the rule function over form. Form should not have priority over function, except in a chopper man's world, I suppose. They didn't seem to care.

[@matoko123]

'The Speedmaster wins on fork rake, obviously'. Wins on handling maybe but if you like chopper/cruiser styling which NEEDS plenty of rake then the SM loses to the Harley on that point.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Matoko - for me, there is a clear distinction between 'criuser' and 'chopper'. For instance, modern Harley's don't go over 30-deg rake (from memory), and several 'cruisers' are only 28-deg. Even the old M8 Breakout was only 34-deg - which I don't think is enough to be called a 'chopper'? I think my point in the video was that a large fork rake is not required for cruiser, although it might be 'traditional'. Here in titchy-Blighty, a tight rake is better 'cos this is a 'crowded isle' - especially the roads. And, as you note, the Speedmaster's tighter rake really benefits the handling - I was stunned, in fact! Cheers, Chris

[@matoko123]

@@chrisoftheot6272 Thanks for your response, you do have a point. Now please help me with my dilemma. I'm the unenviable, or maybe enviable, position of having to choose between a 2018 Speedmaster and a Victory Judge. I currently ride a naked Bandit 1200 which I plan to keep. I don't tour or ride great distances. So what would you do? Make the same choice as you did with the SM and the Sportser?

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Matoko - interesting dilema. It seems that our motorised bicycle needs are very different, so I imagine our choices should be too. I've never ridden a Victory, but reviews of the Judge suggest it is uncomfortable because of it's rear suspension. That would rule it out for me. (Plus it's out of production now.) Since I was looking for electrics like cruise control, I'd go with the Speedmaster over the Sportster, even now. (And my Speedmaster has spent nearly 25% of its life at the doctor's for warranty repairs: which is where it is now - again! 😠) That said, I'd like to try a Victory Judge as they look great - very 'Low Rider-esque'. Cheers, Chris

[@matoko123]

@@chrisoftheot6272 Thanks. Actually I'm coming down on the side of the Victory and you just edged me a bit closer :) The Victory and Indians share many similarities, bit of a bugger the holding company chose to shut the victory production .... or will be a bugger if I need parts. It does look great though. I've test ridden both and the SM was everything I thought it would be, it just isn't as exciting as the Judge and is perhaps not different enough from my Bandit. Sorry to hear about your SM troubles but lucky they're happening now under warranty. I thought they were pretty bullet proof. I wish you happy and safe riding :)

[@robertmatetich2898]

Well, I don't understand where you get the "hurty-hurty" comment since the Triumph won every comfort category in your review. Harley is notorious for making "kit" bikes. Nobody likes their Harley straight out of the box. You have to spend money to make it rideable. If you want a bike that combines the best of Triumph and Harley out of the box, look at Indian.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Robert - I hear what you're saying there, especially about Harleys being "kit bikes". However, in that sense, all bikes are "kit bikes" 'cos they require lots of modification to become 'just right', so-to-speak. Thus, I spent loads on my Sportster, and will now spend loads on my Speedmaster. That's (the biker's) life. Also, to say a stock Speedmaster is more comfortable than a stock Sportster, isn't really saying much! (Though it is true.) As for Indian (Scout) comfort: it's easily the best standard-trim I've ever tried. (Not counting the Harley tourers - too expensive for me.) I'd have happily gone to a Scout but, like the Sport Glide, there are no electronics: traction/cruise/slipper clutch, etc. That was the deal-breaker for me... Cheers, Chris

[@matoko123]

I'm in a dilemma here. i've got to choose between a 2018 Speedmaster and a 2014 Victory Judge. I can't sleep at nights ;) You obviously know about Indians, not dissimilar to Victorys, what do you think I should do. The SM is standard and the Judge has the loudest I ever heard and constantly 'pops' which I do like.

[@kellanhills1972]

Somewhat pointless comparison since nobody is cross shopping a speed master to a 2016 sportster. It’s more comparable to the sportster s or maybe a low rider or something.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Kellan - saying ' nobody is cross shopping a speed master to a 2016 sportster' is wrong because I've just done (2022), and I did it in 2018, when the Speedmaster was first released: The Sportster won in 2018 because it was cheaper, the Speedmaster wins today because it is a modern design and better equiped (and, I could afford it). I shall not comment on the S model. The gorgeous Low Rider starts at £18,500 in Britain (50% more than a Speedmaster & much bigger & heavier). Sorry, it's not directly comparable at all. Cheers for the comment though! Chris

[@kellanhills1972]

@@chrisoftheot6272 thanks for the reply. Like your content. I think here in the USA most people don’t compare a new triumph to an older Harley. I’m looking at the speed master and it kinda stands on its own. Maybe a Kawasaki 900 or something like that. Most people ride bigger displacement bikes here in the USA for whatever reason. But I’m looking at a smaller displacement bike myself. Fallen in love with some of the triumph and Japanese offerings for just riding around. How tall are you? I’m 6’3 and wonder if the speed master would be too small for me.

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Afternoon Kellan - thank you for your positive comments on my channel. :-) I think the primary reason for larger bikes in the US is the big, empty (!) roads that you are able to access, at least outside the city. Here, there's no such thing as an 'empty' road. (I remember my first ride after the first Covid lockdown here: it was like riding 40 years ago on a Saturday morning. It was almost eerie!) I'm just over 5'11" (or I used to be). The point you make about the Speedmaster being a tight fit for a strapping 6' 3" fellow like you is good. It would be tight. I felt like my knees were too high, so I bought some extended reach footrests and they help greatly. (Video to come in a few weeks.) Compared to Harley 'forward pegs', the Speedmaster's feel more like mids to me - or maybe, extended mids. The bike is great, but it needs extended reach pegs, for me, anyway. One guy said he bought a T120 'cos he was 6'+. It does make sense. I'd be interested to hear what you decide to get Kellan. Thanks again, Chris

[@quidestnunc9238]

Thunderbird (1600cc) or Thunderbird Storm (1700cc). Production began in 2009. More than 109 Fig Newtons worth of torque…and ground clearance superior to Every Other cruiser…and with a way comfortable saddle, Pardner !

[@winner1338]

You'll never know. I went from Aprilia Tuono V4 to this Speedmaster. I still make the comparison in my head.

[@garthbane2955]

Excessive heat is normal while running in,you shouldn't make videos if you don't know your subject matter

[@chrisoftheot6272]

Morning Garth - your point is fair enough, though you were somewhat judgmental making it. (I can't but help feel defensive!) I've done 8000 miles now, and it's still crazy-hot, as many owners report. Chris