HARMONIC ATHEIST - Andrew Jasko: Reclaiming our identity after religious indoctrination

[@PeterLarsenJr]

I am going through deconstruction right now. This is very helpful. I think the key for evangelism is to make sure that we all believe in original sin. If you take away the belief in original sin, evangelism quickly breaks down. And people begin to think rationally. And that’s when the church is in trouble, when people start thinking rationally.

[@monus782]

That's what collapsed my faith in Catholicism (its own doctrinal documents make it clear that its entire theology relies on that doctrine being true, otherwise there's no need to baptize babies for starters) and Christianity as a whole soon followed after, this was mostly after realizing that if an Adam we all came from never existed in any form there's no Fall and hence no Original Sin and if that's the case what did Jesus die for in the first place? To me it's all a house of cards and maybe this is one of the reasons why many Christians are hostile towards science (this was the case with many of my former church friends) and we have the creationist movement in the first place.

[@Ronnymikkonen2686]

Great listen to honest things. I'm working with the same issues. Thanks.

[@eyeswideopenapril]

Tim and Andrew, all I can say to this is thank you. The straight talk cutting through all the real ‘prey like’ tactics we NEED to see about the Christian message. The trauma that results is real and freedom is a journey out that I hope for each listener.

[@iw9338]

I often wonder if all that teaching set some of us up for abusive relationship 😮

[@darlene9065]

Thank you. This helped me to realize that I have been a "deconverted loner" for decades. The christian view of sexuality was my main path out of the delusion. I went through a lot of pain to open up to and fully accept my sexuality. My family realized (unapprovingly) that I didn't attend church. But I have been afraid of sharing how I truly feel toward religion out of the fear of steering others toward hell. Its one thing to choose the direction of possible hell for myself, but a whole other choice to lead others down the path to possible hell. You have helped me see that most of my psychological and emotional problems are very intertwined with my early indoctrination of hell and the rules that kept me in a confused hidden darkness.

[@bellezavudd]

Glad to hear youve made such realizations. It gets better the further you get away from the past indoctrination.

[@alexandraparadela9548]

I loved this video also, there is so much to relate to. Freedom from god is amazing. I agree with "when you know the truth, the truth will set you free" it's the REAL truth. Thank you so much for bringing such wonderful people on you channel, you are so awesome. I hope you are doing well

[@chamomiletea9562]

Two brilliant minds discussing crucial topics related to leaving Christianity and trusting our own hearts and minds during the journey forward. Thank you. This was so rich and meaningful.

[@lifetogether4782]

I am still trying to work out what I believe spiritually, but I One hundred percent agree that dogma is the problem.

[@frankomeara8912]

This gentleman comes across as intelligent, sincere, balanced, honest, conscious of his qualifications and eager to use them to liberate people from the shackles of religion. More power to him. I, a former Catholic priest and professsor of Theology (St Michael's College, Winooski, Vt), try to do my bit as an atheist by publishing a blog (blindfaithblindfolly.wordpress.com). Andrew and other readers may find it interesting.

[@johnjohnson1657]

Just a great guest and I appreciate you having him on your show. Brought some great insight for me...kudos.

[@gardellc2814]

It's so interesting to hear the stories of other former Christians. My entire family, going back generations, are Baptist ministers and even missionaries. I have a lonely journey to deconstruction, so I value hearing these personal accounts. I have to admit, I miss the potlucks.

[@Larry30102]

I would imagine that most who leave Christianity experience some loneliness. The Christian community is a strong force.

[@hnybee113]

I have recently started working with Andrew. Wow!! He is an awesome therapist. So intuitive... If you are struggling with deconstruction and trauma. Please reach out to him! Thank you Harmonic Atheist.

[@Gigislaps]

Love the long form videos personally as I’m a deconstructing stay at home mom who is really bored haha 😂

[@Made4more1432]

Same! Really helps the days go by and learn something too!

[@Gigislaps]

@@Made4more1432 yes!!! Glad to meet you here!

[@dreamzofhorses]

I’m working from home but take frequent “breaks” mostly doing chores, caring for my granddaughter or driving an hour to my office to get mail … I enjoy the thorough deep dives and can relate to many of the deconstruction stories and often learn a lot from Tim’s videos. Many interesting interviewees!

[@summerbiby1496]

Andrew, I was in Heaven's Gates Hell's Flames every year it was at my church. I HATED the way they took salvation cards, like we were just racking up numbers. I remember thinking it was amazing at first, but year after year, it started to change how I felt about this fear of hell and how that being the motivation for Salvation was....well, Fucked up!

[@larzhillbot1443]

@@dianestafford6968 be your own Saviour ,free your mind critical thinking skills are a must

[@larzhillbot1443]

@@dianestafford6968 BS Cult theology i was NOT born in Sin nor am i a sinner your theology is crap and save your self the time of responding back even thou thats impossible for you mind controlled Fundamentalists

[@larzhillbot1443]

@@dianestafford6968 CULT

[@larzhillbot1443]

@@dianestafford6968 A heaven full of fundamentalist s would be HELL lol

[@larzhillbot1443]

@@dianestafford6968 Diane give it up You will never winn me over to your Cult

[@ntvrthmn]

This was one of the best I've seen/heard.

[@denisestarr2314]

Going to a hell fire assembly of God church in the early 70s has tramitized me to this day , Fear of going to hell ! I am detransitioning, I believe in a creator , liveing a subsistence lifestyle, i call my religon , I walk the woodland path . But I am done with Christianity. But I am not an atheist.

[@cdzlink7115]

I left the church, but have not found any counselor that could help me with this. Most counselors are Christian or some other belief system.

[@Gigislaps]

Bro... i watched heavens gates and hell’s flames over and over because I sat through play practice because of my dads small small role in it... I forgot that I was afraid of sleep, etc as well.

[@summerbiby1496]

I know I'm a "comment as I watch" person, but I relate to everything Andrew is sharing. Very much the same brand of christianity I was in.

[@dreamzofhorses]

I love Northern California but live in So Cal. I hope to retire in the Santa Barbara area. California has many beautiful places to explore, many things to do and very diverse people, food, geography… Was born here but lived in PA, VA and visited many other places, but California will always be my home.

[@enaroos4608]

Fantastic talk on RTS. Thanks to both of you for this informative talk.

[@liz3511]

Fascinating. Thank you both. The abuse angle isn't something I had thought about before but it rings very true.

[@liz3511]

And by the way I have huge respect for your courage and integrity in not pretending to believe something you don't believe. I'm sure that hasn't been an easy path to walk.

[@donaldhawkins5209]

Everyone. Should experience mdma at least once you will never forget it its. A very profound experience of acceptance and love of all things

[@1948DavidB]

Our cultural inclination has been, not entirely incorrectly, that by PREparation we can avoid many problems. BUT, we haven't avoided this one. There is a sense that the grief never ends, of course. For me the same "flight from truth" of our entire culture we are now experiencing. My current cultural grief is causing a REsurfacing of the grief that the same forces that tore apart my life, personally, is now destroying everything else. Hearing from you all is very comforting and authenticating. MAN is NOT a TRUTH LOVING animal. I was ndver the WunderKind i,n the WunderSociety that our entire culture told me I was in, even after leaving the church.

[@monus782]

I was a devout/fundamentalist Catholic (the kind that still does the Mass in Latin) and one thing that I noticed is that it's obsessed with the afterlife and for many the only thing that really matters is doing whatever it takes to go to heaven. Which might partly explain why my own deconversion was more traumatic than I initially thought, my Catholic identity shaped my lifestyle and personality while giving me a purpose and when my faith collapsed all of that was gone soon after so at my worst I felt I had nothing left to live for and nothing left to look forward to. At the same time however my endless cycle of shame I had for most of my life, by having a high sex drive, ended because I figured I was going to hell anyways for rejecting core doctrines like Original Sin so I feel lucky on this regard (before that I sometimes wished that I was born ace or with no sex drive in part because I really thought I was meant to be a priest or monk, for this I sometimes feel that I missed out on developing a healthy sex life). Two years later I'm doing better but recently realized that there's still a huge void of purpose and identity in my life so I still don't know what to do with myself or what are my dreams and goals besides becoming a writer, I always appreciate when there's resources like this one. For the most part I'm an atheist at this point but I might be a "cultural" Catholic in some way as it's just me keeping some cultural practices and symbols I grew up with, it's part of rebuilding my identity without the faith and it's much easier to act that way than saying I don't believe in a god to the remaining believers in my life. I stopped calling myself a Christian when I rejected the Resurrection narrative and realizing that I had strayed too far away from the mainstream when it comes to theology, by that point even the Episcopalians looked to be pretty conservative in comparison as they don't usually dare to go that far and that's when I ditched the whole religion so nowadays I'm just with the Unitarians and Humanists and the former are probably the only reason why I still consider myself to be religious in some form.

[@lifetogether4782]

“Coming to Jesus through leaving Jesus” couldn’t have said it better

[@trilithon108]

My parents were more humanist and so I didn't have the quilt baggage of Christianity and early went into Eastern mysticism (read the Gospels at 20 but it was lore as could be say something out of an ancient Hindu text). Samadhi (Bliss, perfect Happiness) was my interest and the attainment of that State attracted me. Inspiring were the living and deceased - Ramana Mahashi, Adi Da Samraj, Eckart Tolle, Bhagavan Nityananda, Adya Shanti. Namaste.

[@sidstovell2177]

So simple and healthy. I follow Buddhist philosophy. So simple, so healthy. Loving kindness and compassion towards all sentient beings. I listen to Tim's videos and feel so fortunate that I didn't live under the God he and his guests describe. Best wishes to you and all.

[@summerbiby1496]

Oh sweet, I've been in his group on FB for a little while!!! 🥰🥰🥰

[@BeccaYoley]

Very good interview!

[@larzhillbot1443]

Awesome talking points Even thou i was never really a Christian so to speak I lost so many friends to Fundamentalist youth groups back in my high school years early 70s they had a click in my School i was tricked in to attending a meeting that was my first turn off to Christianity.

[@iw9338]

Excellent thanks very much 😮😅

[@spaceghost8995]

At the 20:00 mark he talks about predatory evangelism. Sounds like a late night TV infomercial that convinces you that you need to buy something that you never heard of and didn't even realize that you needed it!

[@lemsip207]

I look back and realise how much bait and switch and double binds I was subjected to. Even when I did the right thing I was still criticised for it. Then years after walking away from Christianity I would still encounter evangelical and fundamentalist Christians in the secular world who would label me with bogus psychiatric diagnoses for even doing the right things such as washing my tent, sleeping bag and sleeping mat when I returned from a camping trip (cleaning obsession) and taking a sick pet to the vet (Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy). If I didn't do these things most likely I would have been given different labels by the same people. "Oh, you don't take care of yourself/pet/home." So it's like I haven't really left fundagelical Christianity even though I don't attend church services or belong to para church organisations. The fundagelicals are infiltrating the secular world and at the same time telling other people in their churches not to do the same. I would encounter the same people I saw at church in dance workshops or supermarkets and they gave me hateful looks for daring to be out in the world. The only difference now is that I can read up on secular psychology and how abusers work and don't have to kid myself that Christians are always good and nice people.

[@queendivine3044]

Hello to this fellow it is a task and inner work and walking away that needs to take place in order to reclaim you identity after religious indoctrination. I was being attacked to be holy or I was going to die and go to hell. Talking about religious trauma and the abuse that they do to you mentally because your not turning to holiness and living the way they attacking you to live. I feel so much better not going to church and reading the Bible and practicing on being a yielded vessel of holiness and following Jesus or I'm walking or headed to the fire of hell. I watched one of video on this channel where a lady speaker came on and said their is so much more clean, clear air light and love outside of Christainity and ect. Another weight off my shoulder sort to say. After what I was being sent through I realized that people in Christainity or faith based religion even Yah is not my family just people who live differently and while they live differently than others they believe anyone who isn't in agreement and walking like they do are deserving of hell or attacks until they turn their life around and live such a way that they are living. I tell you another thing I have met some people who do not do that to others and act that way towards others who are people who believe in God yet we are told that they are not Christains themselves real Christains. That they was apart of them and amoungst but came from amoungst them be not walking and living like them. Basically they are fake Christains playing church but not living like those in the church. Well I'm here to tell you I'm not apart of the body of Christ and I'm thankful for that exit plan. To be honest I have seen amd heard of so many people who in that belief system that is so judgemental. I have also moved to place another state where it like a bigger fresh breath of air when people live how they live are who they are yet aren't throwing the Bible and the word of God upside they're head telling them to take the Bible and read it so they can no longer live as if they are on milk now they need meat to be this Christ like Christains so you can prove to others that you are a child of God. I'm not his child or his daughter I'm a free person and I love me regardless of the opinions of those in Christainity has to say about me. Nothing is wrong or evil about me. More importantly because I'm no longer a Christain I'm not a stray either I'm a free person.

[@spaceghost8995]

IDK man right away this guy is talking about yoga and meditation and "other forms of spirituality". I wonder if he can define WHAT a spirit is. I still smell WOO. I will listen for a bit and see where it goes.

[@bellezavudd]

Yoga is a physical exercise practice for the body, as meditation is for the mind. There are plenty of practices nowadays that are not associated with "spirituality".

[@lemsip207]

Anyone who leaves Christianity and deconstructs can choose not to go down the sceptic atheist route. So what you call 'woo' is OK to them. I had to put up with yoga, medication and crystals being forbidden in evangelical Christianity. I don't need to have it forbidden in the ex Christian world as well.

[@bmoe4609]

Yoga n meditation is not spirituality. Maybe if ur buddhist or praying to an entity. But i do yoga n it simply is a workout, challege, stretches, at most music n nature help u connect and relax more. Meditation isnt spritual either i meditate to myself n relieve my stress by breathing.

[@atheistechoes9594]

I didnt really think.about it but yeah my identity was stolen you know how they say God didmt want to create robots well thats what christianity has done i almost gave up everything i loved to do cause i thought my hobbies of art and writing were evil

[@bellezavudd]

"they say"...all sorts of lies. All to control your life. Usually what "they say" is the opposite of whats sane.

[@atheistechoes9594]

@@bellezavudd So true my family is all about the lies they don't even like it when i bring up stuff about their bible.

[@bellezavudd]

Sorry to hear that. The best thing is to create as much space as posible between you and them. Independence isnt always easy but its better than having the lie turned on all the time.

[@atheistechoes9594]

@@bellezavudd i tend to stay in my room or take my dog out when they are present im very anti social i think that was because of spanking

[@bellezavudd]

@@atheistechoes9594 Well at least you have a mans best freind to love you. ! 🐕

[@FourWindAnimism]

Thank you both, so much! I feel so much affirmation hearing your words. I grew up a strict catholic, and I also vasilate between humanism and spirituality and mysticism, because it helps me see the world as more than just being human. It's so amazing to hear stories of others who have gone through the same complusions and fears, and stepped out on the other side to do something great with their experience!

[@FourWindAnimism]

@@Psalms-fr8yy probably, maybe a historical figure. A prophet? Maybe. A magician? Probably. A god? No.

[@FourWindAnimism]

@@Psalms-fr8yy Not to get all hypothetical and metaphysical, but I think I'm a prophet too. Anyone who speaks the truth to elevate humanity is a prophet. Tim and Andrew are also prophets in my eyes. That doesn't make any of us gods. Either that or we're all gods.

[@FourWindAnimism]

@@Psalms-fr8yy I don't believe I or anyone else is in need of saving. 🤷

[@FourWindAnimism]

@@Psalms-fr8yy No. I don't believe in the concept of "good" or "evil" either.

[@FourWindAnimism]

@@Psalms-fr8yy We all are.

[@swim610]

❤

[@danielbielicky2972]

Do I understand correctly that ex-christian Andrew recommends experiencing the alcohol, drugs and sex? (sorry I dont remember the exact time of the quote)

[@soniachambers6460]

Life lesson #867... Just because U share one thing, even a big thing, in common with someone else doesn't automatically mean they're on yr wavelength or you would get along. We're all not the same.

[@atheistechoes9594]

My family believes that the bible is completely literal

[@GonzalesLanguages]

If I am not guided by the law of Moses ten commandments

[@cdzlink7115]

Everything you dislike about Christianity is in Buddhism.

[@stefanheinzmann7319]

Atheism is the cleaner solution.

[@spaceghost8995]

I don't think there is a burning hellfire for eternity thing in Buddhism.

[@cdzlink7115]

@@spaceghost8995 They have a hell like place, but you are right, it is not eternal. Though there are many different beliefs among different types of buddhists.

[@cdzlink7115]

@@spaceghost8995 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism) Don't be lazy. Do the work.

[@soniachambers6460]

@@cdzlink7115 i read it, it was interesting. Never knew that. (Do I get a sticker?)😎 Kind of eternal if it can last for at least hundreds of millions of years😶🤯

[@northernpic]

Sadly not the best interview Tim….this guy seems still very mixed up and has embraced some kind of bizarre pseudo religious mysticism path….Wish him all the best but the fact he is counselling others is disturbing to say the least ….

[@lancewilber1119]

Its not indoctrination when you have a relationship with Jesus & the Holy Spirit guides you every moment while we are humbled at the foot of the cross.His love for us is never ending.

[@spaceghost8995]

You are a clear example of how indoctrination robs you of your rational mind. Asserting things you cannot know and closing your brain off to any possible contrary thought.

[@lancewilber1119]

@@spaceghost8995 Yes I am a clear example , thank you . From Holy Ghost to Space Ghost , peace out brother.

[@lemsip207]

What is it if it's not indoctrination, then? And even if the Holy Spirit did exist he wouldn't be guiding you all the way.

[@lancewilber1119]

@@lemsip207 He guides me as much as I let him .When I live in His will for me in a relationship with Jesus & I'm in the word& when I'm helping others that is when I am filled up inside like my cup runneth over .We may never see the same but it was good sharing my faith and hope with you .Have a Merry Christmas & sorry I couldn't resist .

[@debraallen63]

@@spaceghost8995 You channel name tells of your indoctrination as there is NO Outer Space. You're in the Scientism Religion and haven't even a Clue!! You're buying the Lies sold on the Tel-LIE-vision. Fairy Tales of Outer Space. Religions are all False but God is sure real and the historical, archeological proof of Jesus is there for all to See if they actually look. Television 📺 Programming your Life.