Hasselblad X1D: Bold, Beautiful, Flawed, Fixable (Episode 3, "The X1D Has Me Thinking")

[@davidf2281]

This is a frickin' brilliant visual essay with beautifully clear reasoning. For me the key phrase here was, "...the shifting balance between physical and computational correction." I believe that is the crux along with the fact that, like audio hardware before it, commodity optical hardware is reaching the point where it exceeds the ability of an average human (myself included) to differentiate. At that stage it becomes about UX and not much else. Soon enough we won't be able to fetishize the hardware anymore; we'll all just have to get on with taking photographs instead. Imagine!

[@3BMEP]

First: thanks so much. Second: wonderful turn of a phrase ("Soon enough we won't be able to fetishize the hardware anymore; we'll all just have to get on with taking photographs instead. Imagine!"). Welcome to the discourse!

[@stephenscharf6293]

Good comments, David. Actually, I think we've "been there" with respect to the hardware for a while now. Honestly, we all know that none of the embarassment of riches we "suffer" from that comprises the hardware we have available today is going to truly make us better photographers. I'm not going to become a better photographer if I rush right out and buy the Sony A7III, for goodness sakes. Becoming a better photographer comes down to vision, conceptualization, creativity, planning, discipline and technical understanding. I attended a day long seminar last June in San Francisco with Art Wolfe; he presented an incredible array of breathtaking work and tied it together conceptually with great modern artists. Yet, the only questions he got the *entire time* were questions like whether he going to buy the Sony A9, and if not, why not? Or, or how could he still possibly be using that old, outdated Canon 5DIII? Or, did he use a circular polarizer on that last shot? He tried repeatedly to tell them it DID NOT MATTER, what was important was a knowledge of ART and VISION, but they just did not GET IT. AT ALL. Sigh....

[@3BMEP]

Stephen Scharf I love our KZbin community!

[@davidf2281]

I'm sure psychologists must have a term for the cognitive blindness that happens in the gap between ability in a given discipline and the money spent on the tools to accomplish it. I've found it liberating finally to accept that, here in 2018, it's been _decades_ since any camera or lens has been available that does not exceed my ability to use it. All the kit is better than I am -- better than almost everyone -- and there's no point in buying more. The realization that new gear *cannot improve your photography* is both humbling and pivotal. It feels like a kind of Zen-like release; a mandate just to be able to go out and take photographs instead. I wish there was a simple way to enable more folk to experience it.

[@3BMEP]

davidf2281 Did I already write “I love our KZbin community?” Yes, I did. :)

[@RickMentore]

Mesmerizing lecture. Your delivery style is a lost art. This camera satisfies a strange need in me, the need to have something unique and unobtainable by almost all. I am gonna get one!

[@angelah6357]

Did you get one?

[@diordrama]

I think you're the first person on youtube talking about cameras and photography who actually knows what they are talking about!

[@3BMEP]

Bo Dez Well - There are a number of exceptional folks on KZbin, but you made my day anyway. Thank you! :)

[@eandrade672]

Great series... finally..”i feel” an unbiased review by planting the seed of the pros and cons and letting the viewer answer the question with great reaserch ... bravo

[@3BMEP]

Edwin Andrade So happy you enjoyed it!

[@Gudsland]

Unbelievably good! You sir are crazy for making these videos available for free! But thx I bought my x1d 4116 for the image quality and off-course for the enjoyment of good things in life.

[@TimothyGordon]

Thank you so much for your thorough, useful, and constructively critical immersion in this camera. I have been debating with myself, watching reviews and couldn’t put my finger on why this camera didn’t thrill me when I demo’d it. Your channel and insights have me coming back and trusting you. Thanks!

[@3BMEP]

Timothy Gordon Golden rule - I try to create things that I would invest the time to watch myself. I’m happy you found it helpful!

[@bowl0noodles]

Wonderful segment and I would agree the X1D is a very important camera to Hasselblad.

[@sukmoopark3661]

Thanks a lot to your informative lectures which inspire me to look at X1D very carefully. I bought a second hand one around 3,000 dollars and happy to have it. Right price to enjoy. You are right!

[@justwhenithought]

You are a Product Manager disguised as a photographer. You have superbly articulated the raison d'etre of this camera, which to me is much more interesting than the standard camera reviews.

[@3BMEP]

Alai Na Thank you, man!

[@jmorgovsky]

Just finished your 3 XID episodes. Well done, sir and thanks. I own the XID and gone through 3 ( or is it 4?) firmware updates so far. My relationship to the camera has been ambivalent and for a while I avoided it. From the start I see it as beautiful, groundbreaking camera that is a pleasure to handle. But having gone back to it now with a determination to embrace what it is rather than rebel against what it is not, your three episodes validated many of the issues that have grated on me. The auto focus and auto exposure operations (for example) simply did not work as I expected and wanted ( a Nikonista for 50 years). But recently I learned about the manual focus assist feature and - bang! - the problem is resolved in a way that takes me back to the excellent diagonal split sliding center circle of the Nikkormat FT viewfinder. As you say, ...more control. Anyway, thanks very much for the thoughtful and well delivered programs.

[@3BMEP]

Truly, my pleasure. Nikkormat FT!!! Split image focusing screens! Those were the days. And weren't, too. Welcome to the conversation.

[@baxtermarrison5361]

I think digital medium format is less relevant now when compared to the film days. The increase in sensor size is not that significant, particularly with the Pentax 645Z, Fujifilm GFX and the Hasselblad XD1. I I use the Pentax with a modest selection of glass, five primes and a couple of zooms. Yes, the Pentax lens design is older, but I think better for it. Low element count primes as an example. When trying out the Hassie I found the software to be buggy and the gals not that impressive when stopped down. It was the glass that informed my decision as the camera is by no means perfect. I think Fujifilm have the right idea. I would love to see Hassie produce a 6x6 digital back for the V system. Now that would be worth adding to my bag of tricks. I still use the V system now and again. You are right to point out that the Hassie is a first generation camera but I can't help thinking it's too little too late.

[@JuanLopez-oz9kh]

You are the only Professor (LOL) in KZbin (reviewer) that i sit and listing. Your lectures are educating and eye opening and not just about gear sniffing. I must give credit to the G9 for been about 80% to 90% to the quality of the H1D. Don't get me wrong, they are not at the same class or in the same market, but it makes me wonder was possible by lower price market camera for market share vs a boutique camera system.

[@3BMEP]

Juan Lopez Thanks for joining the conversation - and thank you for the kind words!

[@3BMEP]

Good insight! Thanks for weighing in!

[@dallasthomas5489]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I really enjoyed this series and will watch your other videos, keep up the great work.

[@stephenscharf6293]

Another really great video, Hugh, very well considered and presented. You discussed some very good points, the most interesting of which I found to be around where the place for medium format is today, with the multitude of offerings in other formats. I would love for you to get the Fujifilm GFX50S for a spell and compare and contrast the two camera systems. The Fuji GF system has had considerably more rapid scaling and availability of 3rd party support from companies like Cambo, ProFoto, Broncolor, Godox, and well as a multitude of adapter manufacturers. As you know, these are key tools and systems for professional adoption. Cheers, Stephen

[@roberttoscano2716]

Thank you for the Part Three of the first generation of the X1D, I just purchased the X1D II. I enjoy your Videos, and find you very similar to Jeff Goldblum, have you ever met?

[@3BMEP]

I get that a lot. 😊 Not intentional, haven’t met him, think he’s a wonderful actor.

[@peterzpictstube]

Good point on the tilting viewfinder. I used to have Canon Camcorder A1Digital Hi8 that only had a viewfinder but could twist the focus ring on it all the way to allow you to see the screen enlarged from a distance. That type of tech might do the wait level shooting thing without the glare.

[@MDRFoto]

the only way Hasselblad is going anywhere is if DJI decides they only want to use their optics technology for their drones. And to agree with you, the X1D is completely frustrating! When I put it up against my GFX, I found it beautiful with great IQ but horrible usability. Thank you for this episode. As someone who delves into youtube videos himself, the one take preserntation is amazing. Bravo!

[@fstop95]

I snapped up an X1D on a killer Black Friday deal (used rental body). I couldn't sell my a7rll fast enough. Being able to use my fleet of V lenses, along with the 45mm native lens (I also picked up on a used deal), I have a camera that brings me great joy to shoot. I love my D850 and DF but shooting the camera is just plain different. The files are so nice, and the MF look is noticeable. Perfect for everything? Not a chance, but it doesn't have to be. It slows me down, and I just plain love holding it and shooting with it.

[@3BMEP]

Barry Howell delighted for you - enjoy!

[@IanWilkinson]

Once again the voice of reason, critical insight and cautious optimism, delivered in an entertaining manner - smoothly and convincingly: a welcome alternative to all the other hypesters.

[@3BMEP]

Thanks, Ian!

[@alanplatt888]

2023, You're apreasel and opinion of the X1D is so very much appreciated.........................!!

[@Uracas2012]

great info and superbly delivered... Thank you!

[@jeanpierreguaron9222]

I think the whole industry is metamorphosing, at present. The vast majority of "photography" is now being done on smart phones. There is a residue of "photographers" who don't want to go down that path - or, if they do, they still want to have "cameras". There has been a layer under-pinning the major manufacturers, of low price, low margin, high turnover "pocket" cameras, and that market has shrunk enormously under pressure from the smart phones. It now seems that the industry must re-focus itself, and concentrate more on "high end" cameras. Not necessarily enormously expensive (or enormous) - but taking their users to a realm outside the realm of smart phones. Hasselblad has been re-focusing, and is to be applauded by reaching out to a wider market. In the meantime, there is another problem for them. Several other major manufacturers have joined in and started producing medium format cameras. In a "shrinking market"? I can't help but wonder at this one. A new line like this is not that easy - it calls for a new range of lenses and all sorts of other extras - and at least one other manufacturer has already experienced failure for reasons like that, with the introduction of a new camera. Lurking in the background is a quiet revolution with sensors - I suspect arguments about how many MP is "enough" will wither & die, in a short while, because of the astounding leaps in pixel numbers that are already in the pipeline. And if I have any views to offer them, I think one idea that they should ALL give serious consideration is to stop flooding the market with so many different camera bodies and other accessories - and start making better ones. Stop fronting the market with something they want to "sell" - and start asking the market what it wants to "buy". Stop trying to product a "one size fits all" solution by creating yet another camera with zillions of features so that NOBODY will ever want all of them. Cut the associated development and production costs by making something that a large enough number of photographers WILL want. An example is contained in your clip - the viewfinder on the X1D - now that I know I can have one, I want an articulated screen as well as a decent "look through" viewfinder. A FULLY articulated screen. If I want to photograph the ceiling of a cathedral, I scarcely want to lie down to do it . . . and shooting on a tripod under those conditions, without an articulated screen, is beyond me. Was it too much to expect, that this cam might have one? - or the Nikon D810? - or even worse, the D850, since it was released so much later than the D810? That's a much more basic and useful "addition" than the ability to take movies on these cameras, or image shifting, or the ability to edit in camera, or to WiFi the photos to my computer at home. So why can't I at least have that much? It makes my head hurt, trying to see the future for an industry which is important to me, but which is facing a shrinking market share and ignoring basics of its market. BTW - hadn't come across Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions till someone referred me to this clip. I am overwhelmed - it's a superb production! And I've instantly become a subscriber!

[@3BMEP]

First: welcome to the 3BMEP. community! And thanks for joining the conversation. You make many good points. But stay tuned - my Fuji GFX50s review coming tomorrow!

[@ericpmoss]

Your sigh at 5:56 earns a 'thumbs up' for being the best "people ain't gettin it' analysis yet. BTW, I'm excited by the X1D because for me, it's the first digital Mamiya 7, at least superficially.

[@3BMEP]

eric moss Great point about the Mamiya. And thanks for the encouragement!

[@iangillett1817]

Captivating. Beautiful informative presentation. Thank you!

[@3BMEP]

Ian Gillett Sol glad you enjoyed it!

[@waynehadley1999]

Great videos, great delivery and content! Hasselblad/DJI need to hire you as their Product Manager, love your ideas as to the direction they should take the X1D.

[@3BMEP]

Wayne Hadley 😊🙏🏻

[@hendrikmintarno]

I have to agree with most of your critics on X1D, what hasselblad need now is to modify their LCD into tiltable one (waist level view) and some degree of control with manual focus (more accurate focus peaking with mechanical focus lens). I have skme more inputs for them, but hey i guess its the same complaints that other people has with X1D (faster operation, less bug, etc). love your video!

[@3BMEP]

Hendrik Mintarno Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@peterwillstein198]

Bravo ...captivating, insightful and thoroughly memorizing. Peter

[@3BMEP]

Peter Willstein Happy that you enjoyed it!

[@charlieb.4273]

I love the idea, and I don’t use that word lightly, of a modular system - again. Switchable backs. Maybe a 24mp starter back then a 59mp or then a 100mp step up. A dedicated video back that lets on grow into 4K, 8k or 16k when that comes out - all while using the same system glass. I am a dedicated V system user, and currently push over 10 sometimes 20 plus rolls of 120 film through the system a month. The ability to have three different film backs is key to me. The interchangeable view system is also important. I would like to move into digital, particularly for color - yet with the rapid turnover of systems and technology, where does one jump into the market. What I would hope to come out of hasselblad is a system I could get into and stay. A system worthy of passing down to my children that would retain its artistic merit. My camera is 50 years old, and nothing does MF film nearly as well. Can anyone say that about any, even 10 year old, digital camera? The Leica M-P might make the cut, but we will have to wait a decade to find out. Great video. Thank you again. Charlie

[@ratadeldesierto760]

Amazing as always!

[@TheFatamorgana46]

Bought the camera, thanks for the video. A game-changer, I re-shot many scenarios / people at a four day fair. The previous camera being the Leica M240 with the 50mm f1.4. The X1-D with the 90mm is astonishing, simply another level entirely, the Leica is no slouch and that series of 10 images had me in the Sony Short List / Professional Portraiture with the set in 2018 after all.

[@3BMEP]

Their glass is fantabulous, and the X1D feels great in the hand. So glad you enjoy it!

[@TheFatamorgana46]

@@3BMEP Yes, struggled initially, but that's because I tried accessing things through the screen, I prefer M focus at times (Leica M coming out in me!). What makes the difference for me is flash sync' all the way to 1/2000th whilst at f3.2 - f4. This gives me the look I have crafted out for my portraiture. The Taylor Wessing / NPG portrait prize competition closes in 12hrs, so away I must go to select my winning six images! Thanks again.

[@AlainSTO]

I love a LOT about the X1D. But truth be told, I'm getting the next one, whether that's an X2D or an X1d-100c with the upcoming Sony sensor. It's the fine tuning of things like the EVF, the weird shutter, lack of remote shutter, and more modern memory card slot that will ultimately make me drop money. I don't care about video; I'm not buying this thing even remotely thinking of using it.

[@3BMEP]

Totally understand. Excited to see what you'll do with it!

[@RickMentore]

It would be cool if they remove video from the next model, hopefully making it less pricey.

[@3BMEP]

I really think that's a great idea. Instead of modularity based on emulsion or finder or winder, modularity on stills vs video1

[@1dbjack]

Not sure what Hasselblad has in store for us and hopefully Photokina will reveal a few welcome surprises. A Leica level EVF would be nice. If it articulated even better. A faster autofocus and perhaps a slightly higher frame rate would be nice. 4K video? Maybe. 1080p that is usable would be nice. Or frankly giving up on video altogether... my preference. A 100MP sensor would be interesting but I am not sure what that would do without the other things. I desperately want to pull the trigger and purchase one of these beauties but it needs to become a little more usable for street photography for me. Anyway, call it the X2D or whatever, this is a great first effort and I can't wait to see the follow on version(s).

[@mwolfer1]

All X1D affiliate links lead to the Sony A7III. Coincidence? I think not! ;-)

[@3BMEP]

OH NOOOOOOO!!!! Will fix immediately. Thanks for the heads up!!

[@hansformat]

Another great discussion.

[@markb.3166]

This was great. Agree with others (well......one other person, lol) that this should be a stills camera with little to no regard for video. I'm not buying a medium format camera to do video.

[@cristianperotti9412]

Your level of speech is astounding! You should be a professor (if you are not already). I have a question for you. Regardless of money, if you had to pick and buy one of these cameras, which one would you buy? The X1D or the Fuji Gfx?

[@3BMEP]

Cristian Perotti Thanks! My father was the professor - I never rise above teaching assistant. :) to my great surprise, I found the Fuji more enjoyable to use, love the simulations, and loved the glass. I also appreciate the optional EVF tilt adapter available for the Fuji. Did you see my Fuji review?

[@cristianperotti9412]

Thank you for answering me. Well, first of all, if you follow on your father´s footsteps, it would be great. IT is very pleasant to hear you, and it is so good to listen to in depth reviews with real content. I found your channel yesterday and already subscribed :) Secondly, yes, I saw the Fuji Review, that´s the reason of my question. I am currently saving money and I haven´t decided what to get yet. Those 2 are my final contestants :) I once considered the Pentax 645Z, but then I discarded the option. Thank you for your answer again, It really does help toward my decision :) Cheers!

[@theovanantwerpen]

hai dude, what champoo and hair strengthener do you use?

[@acidsnow5915]

Very interesting. Thanks for your insight. Doesnt make my choice eadier if i should get on or nor

[@3BMEP]

ACID SNOW what do you shoot, and what do you shoot with now?

[@TheCooliodad]

Very good report. From a commercial perspective, Hasselblad, just like Leica needs brand their names on phones (now the relationship with Leica and Huawei). /Dr. P. Munther

[@3BMEP]

They're working with Motorola on just that!

[@villagranvicent]

Indeed, the difference in image quality between a 50mp medium format digital camera and let's say a Sony A7Rii/iii with top glass is not that big, but the price difference in 2019 is not that big either.

[@AndySnap]

Another aspect to the story is, I think, that Hasselblad haven't managed to market themselves as THE high end camera system, in the way the Leica have been so excellent in doing for their brand. Hasselblad are tainted somewhat with the Pentax brush, that of a once mighty brand (for those of a certain age...) that has slipped almost over the horizon, despite excellent products. The X1D deserves to find it's place as a tool for great images, and Hasselblad as a company also, but the whole brand needs a lift too.

[@3BMEP]

Andrew Higgins Solid points - thanks for chiming in!

[@MartinCHorowitz]

Be fair the G9 to H1D comparison used a pixelshift merge which required multiple shots. That only works because everything was perfectly static. If you had compared them in a situation like a lnadscape where a leaf could move a little bit or a wave was hitting a beach, only the H1d could have caught the shot. People wanting to perform that trick MF cameras have done sequential scan for a long time. In fact the original color photos were done that way with RGB filters. In the g9s case the process is automated and the RGB are mixed between shots in a bayer fiilter pattern. I will admit that many Product shots will be under the static controlled conditions.

[@3BMEP]

Martin Horowitz agreed!

[@paristo]

I hope you would start to call the 35mm aka "Full Frame" with its true name from now on, the "Small Format" ;)

[@jaimeduncan6167]

I will say that the H is as important, it was the camera that allow medium format to survive the digital era. Yes phase one eventually created a camera , but it was years. Even so, the close future could prove you right. And it seems to be the case

[@3BMEP]

Jaime Duncan good point!

[@yahya2700]

Ok something is really really off in this Why is your X1D images only 3096x4128 that’s only 13mp wtf

[@yahya2700]

You made this so unfair

[@byebyebeano8616]

Brilliant

[@3BMEP]

:)

[@yoakh515]

hi there.. I have a small comment.. I like to photograph people.. the 500c is perfect for this as you can talk to the subject without looking like robot cyclops. The 500c has a waist level viewfinder. talking to the subject helps evaporate tension, builds connection.. you are not hiding behind the camera.. other than the quality of the glass etc.. this is what defined medium format.. I never understood why you would want a prism finder on a blad.. Nikon etc do that sort of thing.. but why do away with a waist level finder?? it's an assault on the creative process.. it's ignoring blad's own history.. I contacted them and asked.. 'will you be bringing out a hotshoe waist level viewfinder for the x1d'.. they said no!! I would have bought one.. imagine it.. to once again have the lightness in you hand of the original film blad on location rather than the digital bricks we use in the studio.. ahhh, that was therapeutic :)

[@adrianpocea2287]

I love you videos beyond words, but since when , on the video side, A7riii looks stunning, meanwhile the GH5s just "punches above it's weight"? The 10 bit, 400 mbps, All-I, 4:2:2, Cinema 4k, 4k60p, dual native iso is with the later, not the first one

[@3BMEP]

Adrian Pocea Great question. I meant in the specific context of low light performance in those clips. Forget the specs - what do YOU see in the street videos (to be fair, this was IPB, not all intra, straight out of the camera, no log).

[@adrianpocea2287]

Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions You showed like half a second images from a clip,Hugh. I have the GH5s, I am waiting for the A7iii( which they say is better than the A7r3 in low light) and I am going to compare them when it arrives. In my book there is no obsession over how awesome is a camera at 1 million iso. For me if a camera is clean at 6400 and usable at 12800 AND has all the features that I mentioned in GH5s, it is good enough.

[@3BMEP]

Adrian Pocea I agree with your conclusion!

[@adrianpocea2287]

Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions Plus, you know how awesome ergonomically the Panasonics are. Don't know, hope when A7iii arrives, it will be my first love story with Sony. Too many boxes checked there in order not to like it.

[@3BMEP]

Adrian Pocea And again: Agreed. Though for us, the issue is: who is going to get to an internal ND first, at what price, with what lag before their others do, too - and when we decide we simply cannot live without it. :)

[@manfrombkk]

Kudos for your hair stylist... he or she, or “hold that thought “ .... you.

[@boarini2003]

Your cadence and voice remind me of Jeff Goldblum.

[@gabesphoto]

I need a coke brake...!!! be back

[@gabesphoto]

Coca-Cola.....

[@PiotrPavlov]

👏👏👏

[@ParanoidFactoid]

I love your channel. Very simple talking head shit, but you light beautifully. You separate! Black shirt with black chairback and chiaroscuro for the face. With a second set of bluish lights for the background against posters for depth. Fuck man, you know how to take the simplest thing and make a beautiful image. And you know your shit on subject matter too. I think you have't broken out because you're not playing the clickbait title game. Totally sold on new sub.

[@3BMEP]

Paranoid Factoid Thank you so much for the encouragement.

[@ParanoidFactoid]

I'm 50. Used to have a darkroom as a kid. My dad was into helping his kid do projects. Shot both medium and 35mm. Had a lot of fun. So I have fond memories of real film. And I don't think digital approaches film for color reproduction yet. Even though we're transitioned and it's a done deal unless you're rich or working a project that really needs it. Also want to say, the GH5s is an amazing camera for the price. I think all of us would prefer full frame to m43. But the GH5s is a working man's camera. Cheap, effective, and with a booster and full frame lens, close enough to get the job done. 10 bit. And fits in tight spaces. Everyone thinks low light is about going outside at night and shooting in moonlight. No. It's about carrying your lighting gear anywhere and powering by battery. No more mains! At least, for the most part. If you need to simulate the sun on set, you'll need an HMI and juice. But for on-location? All the high-end gear will go low resolution / high light sensitivity with dual gain. Love your channel. Love your aesthetic. And eloquence. Keep doing what you're doing and talking about it. I'll (and many others) will listen. Do you really want to clickbait your way to an audience share who doesn't understand what you're after? Keep your niche dude. And keep shooting gorgeous imagery.

[@3BMEP]

Paranoid Factoid I think you’re spot-on, from the GH5s to packing light and more. Love that your dad supported you like that - as did mine. Glad to have you on board! And - not to worry: I can only be who I am.

[@mikewhiles4635]

Lovely but given that the camera has bombed and is now available for up to half price is it doomed? 😞😞😞

[@3BMEP]

Mike Whiles As I said, the difference between dMF and FF is much smaller than it was in the film days. But a lot can happen over the next 18 months.

[@mikewhiles4635]

True, mobile phones will inherent the world but not quite yet! Thanks for the reviews and thoughts. 😎😎😎

[@peterzpictstube]

Hold that thought.......grrr

[@250157andyw]

peterzpictstube The thoughts are the key & best bits - better to hold on to them than let them escape ;)

[@Dan.gibson.photographer]

A nice camera but affordable 😉🤪

[@mrmdpgh]

Now being sold at half price, makes one wonder.

[@3BMEP]

Mitchell Rothenberg Where are they selling for half price?

[@mrmdpgh]

Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions $2500 to 3000 in US but almost 50% in Europe. www.adorama.com/g/HasselbladPriceDrop

[@3BMEP]

Mitchell Rothenberg definitely less, but not close to half, no?

[@youngalwyn1124]

A thorough discussion of the Hasselblad X1D could have been accomplished in 10 - 15 minutes. Stretched any longer, and the real subject here becomes *you*, IMHO.

[@250157andyw]

Young Alwyn Hmm ... some of us appreciate thorough detail, well argued opinion ... and style :)

[@dunnymonster]

The X1D...style over substance?