the original Mario Bros.

[@twentyspires]

"he is clearly a being capable of logical reasoning, as established in donkey Kong jr math" is a great line

[@purpleninja102]

"... but it also requires me to say 'Donkey kong jr. is an unreliable narrator' out loud, which is the 2nd hardest claim to take seriously that i've made about donkey kong jr. in this video so far." Is also another great one. And I think it references the first line in it, which is even better.

[@mccookies3664]

@@purpleninja102 And of course, later on we get "Mario Bros. for the Game and Watch is a game about the exploitation of the working class under capitalism" which is an interesting concept

[@jackhaehl2033]

I had to pause the video for a bit because I just couldn't stop laughing

[@illdie314]

I cracked up at that one. I had almost forgotten about that game.

[@Tokmurok]

it got spoiled by the new KZbin comment placement. Thanks.

[@JohnaldV]

"Dont expect me to do anything like this ever again." Why would I subscribe to this agent of chaos if I expected anything at all?

[@RGC_animation]

lol

[@leaffinite2001]

Then he went and did it again! Mad man

[@Viscidsquare040]

Feels like BDG’s first Unraveled

[@Vegas242]

And then they did it a third time xD

[@alias_hallow]

Thank you for including the word "plethora" in this video, it means a lot

[@seabassthegamer6644]

Huh. I didn't notice that he said that. I've just kinda accepted "plethora" as a word now. Hmmmm

[@Mercure250]

I see what you did there

[@10thletter40]

And thank you Hallow for *fun* , it's a pleasure

[@the-letter_s]

i have achieved a laugh

[@sanzanderteio4392]

Carl?

[@treythesequel]

It is truly haunting to see yourself from the outside. But that is the experience of Donkey Kong Jr, a game where you are forced to confront the hollow shell that is Mario, a shell that you once inhabited. It disgusts you, now, to remember that you were Mario, and the taunting figure at the top of the screen is a grim reminder of your past. Now, Mario is a void made flesh, the agency bestowed upon all living creatures revoked from his body. Even Mario himself must confront his dark twin in the opening scene, but instead of rejecting him, as we do, Mario conspires alongside his ungodly doppelgänger. Truly unnerving stuff.

[@the-letter_s]

do the mario

[@ryankeenan4425]

Bing bing wahoo lets a go!

[@this_is_diamond_rot]

Stop.

[@loop5720]

669 likes ruiner me are, ooh yes mmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmm yes verry verry mhm yes!

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

@@the-letter_s r/comedyheaven

[@FinetalPies]

I think DK Jr. might be an unreliable narrator in the sense that he sees all humans as Marios, in the same way some old people view all video game consoles as Nintendos.

[@JamesSonOfBaboonzo]

Huh. That is an interesting take. Would explain the two Marios.

[@BagOfMagicFood]

Maybe they only dress the same as Mario, and they look totally different if you were to get a close look at their faces.

[@MoonwalkerWorshiper]

@@BagOfMagicFood Donkey Kong has bad eye-sight, that's why he just kicks off those barrels instead of actually aiming for Mario.

[@Sasparilla_]

all games are referred to as mario

[@mortimermcmirestinks]

That's a good fucking theory

[@marsdeat]

"As established in Donkey Kong Jr. Math" is a statement with immeasurable power... and they just skip right past it!

[@marsdeat]

Okay, I take it back - I hadn't yet got to "Donkey Kong, Jr. is an unreliable narrator", and that is somehow even MORE powerful.

[@kevinm5940]

@@marsdeat there's also 'Mario Bros. is a game about the exploitation of the working class under capitalism'

[@danatronics9039]

@@kevinm5940 Sure, but that's at least the main focus of the video, while DK Jr Math isn't given a second glance.

[@EebstertheGreat]

I was trying to find this video again and couldn't remember the name of the channel. I tried googling it for ten minutes fruitlessly, because I couldn't think of any unique keywords. (Like 90% of my results kept being the Gaming Historian.) But then I remembered this line and searched "as established in Donkey Kong Jr. Math." Sure enough, there was exactly one result, and it led me here.

[@jan_Eten]

@@EebstertheGreat good 4 u

[@irasponsibly]

my favourite type of video: looks like it could be a shitpost, is half hour doco

[@sideswipebl]

That's his entire aesthetic

[@paulcolour3030]

And also a shit post

[@ChrisLeeW00]

Genius with a touch of madness.

[@chroma.z]

w

[@ryrieee]

it's actually both

[@paperspock]

"Donkey Kong Jr. isn't just blindly attacking Mario, he is clearly a being capable of logical reasoning as established in Donkey Kong Jr. Math." Nearly fell off my chair.

[@nonamea9177]

Indeed

[@DialecticRed]

And the fact that he didn't even aknowledge it - it's just fact.

[@guaposneeze]

As a conlang, the original Mario Bros has a charmingly limited grapheme inventory. Luigi Up, Luigi Down, Mario Up, Mario Down, Game A, Game B, and Time. There is no conjugation or explicit verbs for the moving of packages, as they are implicit from the location of the character based on previously having been moved up and down. Unlike ideographic writing systems which use characters that represent abstract ideas, or alphabetic writing systems where the characters represent sounds, the characters in the language are actual characters named Mario and Luigi. Like the devanagari abjad writing system, there is a baseline independent of the actual characters but Mario Bros uses five baselines only two of which have a character at any given time. The multiple baselines are almost analogous to the lines of the notation for a music scale, though the phonemes don't consist of distinct tones based on position like a musical scale as they only include tonally undifferentiated 'beep' and 'long alarm beep.' The grammar consists of sentences of package transfers that accumulate in the top left of the writing area called the Truck. Compared to conlangs like Klingon, Mario Bros is quite simple, but it is extremely unlike English in construction which makes it as interesting to study as it is quick to learn.

[@safetymeasures167]

You deserve an Oscar

[@grillygrilly]

This should be pinned.

[@digilici951]

this infuriated me, thank you

[@oneproudukrainian2063]

@@xpehkto 'Харе' is used in day-to-day Russian with the same meaning

[@emblemblade9245]

STOP.

[@OtakuNoShitpost]

Might I offer that the remakes are concerned less about sanitizing the message and more about moving it to a more "Mario" setting? After all, a bottle factory is too "real" for the Mario setting being cultivated at that point, thus changing it to something more appropriate in universe led them to the cakes.

[@Frahamen]

"Too real" = sanitized You're point is distinction without a difference.

[@hb-robo]

moving the setting away from reality is the point of the sanitization. you’re less likely to ask questions about bosses and character motives and work exploitation if the game itself is about making cute little cakes in a forest instead of packaging commercial goods for distribution. additionally, your statement of “a more Mario setting” is indicative of that sanitization process working in the first place, as by that point they had disavowed Mario’s origin of New York City and his occupation as a plumber to completely abstract his character from any real-world implications of work or life.

[@OtakuNoShitpost]

@@hb-robo yes, because if he's from New York then the mushroom kingdom doesn't make as much sense. They more they put him in a fantasy land, the less he belongs in mundane reality. Thus, they had had their hands tied when it came time to return to mundane reality.

[@anlumo1]

@@OtakuNoShitpost But a level of Super Mario Odyssey happens in the “real world”…

[@OtakuNoShitpost]

@@anlumo1 which is why i specified that era with regard to the Mario setting

[@Phox-in-a-Box]

I legitimately thought Mario Bros. was _supposed_ to be a multiplayer game that _could_ be played single player. I honestly had no idea that it was the other way around.

[@Envy_May]

i thought that upon seeing it for the first time

[@endersteph]

Me too !

[@amfram]

I mean, it looks rather uncomfortable to play with two people. The left side is suited for a left hand, but in multiplayer you’d have to use your right hand or uncomfortably reach over your body

[@eloujtimereaver4504]

@@amfram It is meant to be played with your arm around the other person in a Mario Brotherly embrace.

[@tech6hutch]

@@eloujtimereaver4504 spooning?

[@cloenobody]

i love that take on dk jr, but i think an important detail as long as you are treating the story as non-literal is that its possible its goal is to create empathy for the donkey kong family, and marios characterization is just a side effect of that. the end result can be seeing both protagonists' stories without necessarily making one of them as dubious as "morally grey" imo

[@cloenobody]

woah. thats some real stuff! youre totally right in terms of what this says for donkey kong - knowing this does make me ask "how did he get here?" though especially knowing the rest of the modern history establishing dk and company as more friendly than foe. (another interesting role to note is how in some mario party games dk acts as as equal but opposite role to bowser for example) given sr.'s role in captivity in donkey kong jr. it is entirely plausible his actions in the original were a response to having already been in captivity. if this were the case his actions misguided judgments clouded by anger and the emotional turmoil of an experience - or more logically a panicked attempt to evade fate. when you combine this story with the knowledge of other titles such as Mario Bros. for the Game & Watch, seeing the brothers work in a factory in a world un-distinct from our own, one might even infer that the original donkey kong stories were indeed *both* the kongs acting on conscious sentimental actions AND the marios of the story trying to tackle what they perceived as escaped animals, non-sentient and posing danger to their loved ones. if that is the case, this conflict could be resolved simply by an event which causes "humans/marios" to realize the animals' intelligence. something like this would be what causes their world to deviate drastically from our own, and would lead to differences like their factory now including bowser!

[@SuperFroakie82]

There are a couple more games that I think are crucial to understanding the story here, starting with Donkey Kong Circus. I write very long, so this comment is very very long. DK Circus is commonly interpreted as the beginning of the Mario and Donkey Kong story, although I don't think it's been officially stated. However, I'll still be running with that interpretation as it seems to fit best with the sequence of events we know. Donkey Kong Circus features Donkey Kong juggling pineapples and dodging falling fire all while balancing on top of a barrel, presumably as part of a circus act. He is very clearly distressed by this and is probably being forced to do this against his will, being seen as a random, unintelligent circus animal rather than the logical being we know he is. Mario meanwhile, is off to the side, and laughs when DK fails by dropping a fruit or touching the fire. Matpat covered this game in one of his theories, and interpreted the events here as Mario being the one who is forcing DK to do these horrible things, leading to this being a very popular interpretation. However, all that is shown in game is Mario standing off to the side, so it's also possible that he's just watching. It does get a little muddied though, as Miyamoto has stated that DK is Mario's escaped pet in the original Donkey Kong. Now I'm going to be getting into speculation. Of course, it paints Mario in a bad light to be laughing at the misfortune of DK like this, but he most likely saw him as just a simple animal, and if he wasn't actually involved in the circus himself, then he's not really any worse then say, people watching actual people being hurt in fail compilations or something. It's not totally morally good, but it's certainly not evil. As for the pet thing, it is possible that Mario bought DK after DK Circus, maybe even to save him from the cruel circus after feeling bad, although he still kept him in captivity judging by how he's described as having "escaped" (also how did he afford to buy a giant gorilla, whether he got it from the circus or not? He's a random plumber/carpenter/factory worker). I'm also going to point out that the girders and oil drums from Donkey Kong are seen as decorations and the source of the falling fire respectively, which seems very weird given that it's supposed to be a circus, but maybe the construction site Mario works at is just located around and above the circus, causing the oil drums to drop fire onto the performance. Mario is just seen watching from a random girder, so he was probably just working and saw the circus happening from the construction site. Well anyways, that's what happens in DK Circus, which is followed by DK escaping from Mario and kidnapping his girlfriend like we all know, likely with an added grudge by DK against Mario for laughing at him in the circus. Then, DK Jr. happens, and Mario and his mysterious clone are putting DK in a cage in the jungle and taking him to the city for some reason. I would guess that DK escaped after the events of Donkey Kong, and Mario is trying to re-capture him since he's been shown to be potentially dangerous. The next game that is very important to this whole story is DK 94. You might think that this is just a gameboy port of Donkey Kong, but it is very much not. The first 4 levels are basically a remake of Donkey Kong, but after that things go completely differently. Mario doesn't save Pauline there, DK actually gets away again and you run around chasing him all around the world with DK Jr helping him. But at the end, Mario and DK make up and become friends, likely because of Mario realizing that he isn't just a normal gorilla just like Clover said. And then their friendship is further shown in stuff like Donkey Kong Hockey and such.

[@cloenobody]

YES!!!!!

[@hangfire5944]

I just found out lex luthors secret cake stash! TAKE HIM TO THE FEDS

[@Luigicat11]

@Dane Ballew There's another layer to this you haven't considered: If the modern Mario is not the same person as the classic Jumpman, then it's a distinct possibility that the modern Pauline is herself a different person from the classic Pauline. This is substantiated by a key difference in their designs: Hair color. Classic Pauline is blonde, like Princess Peach, while modern Pauline is brunette, like the Mario Brothers and Jumpman. Guess which one is genetically dominant. It is possible, nay probable, that the Pauline we see in Mario vs. Donkey Kong and onwards is not Mario's love interest, nor is she his mother, but the oft-theorized (and just-as-oft mocked due to the overflow of poorly-made OCs claiming the title) third Mario sibling.

[@kaitthenoscoper]

oh my god i just realised something what if Donkey Kong Jr. is actually red-green colourblind and the two Marios that seem to appear in the cutscene are actually Mario and Luigi

[@reillywalker195]

If that was the case, though, the foliage Donkey Kong Junior sees wouldn't be green to him. Maybe what we're actually seeing is Mario and either Luigi or a doppelganger dressed in identical clothing-perhaps the idea being they're in uniform working together.

[@zyaicob]

I think this is valid and you can even get around the issue of the trees being green by realising that DKJR is an ape and trees are the most natural part of his environment so even if him seeing them as a green distinguishable from red doesn't make sense, the trees being green is likely supposed to represent their relative normalcy to him, while lumping all humans together as Marios, especially given the stories his father probably told him (leaving out the part where he kidnapped a human that wasn't a Mario) represents the limitations of the schema through which he understands the novel phenomenon of humans, and the immediate trauma of the situations in which he encounters humans can easily hinder the process by which that schema would naturally expand to accommodate different kinds of humans.

[@scrappedmetal]

when you said "mario's motivations are" i was totally expecting what you said next to be a list of consonants

[@jslice6137]

mːə ɹːə wːə wow, that’s an interesting consonant inventory!

[@kitsovereign4127]

Great analysis; loved the DKJr segment. I always figured that the cakes were a deliberate change, but that the less bleak and anti-capitalist tone was just due to goofily converting the characters to Mario ones. The boss is mean and antagonistic, so he becomes Bowser; the truck driver also wears overalls and a cap, so he becomes Wario. DK Jr gets to keep Mario in a villainous role because the closest modern-day analog to Bad Mario is still just Mario. It's hard for me to feel to feel like the changes are trying to hide something when the "original" games are also presented alongside them for context.

[@10thletter40]

Ahh I see, so it is not a conspiracy then :[) phew

[@chatboss000]

Well, One could argue that providing a side-by-side comparison alters the framing to a certain degree. Because you're not just comparing the old to the new per se, but also the new to the old.Ex: Mario and Luigi have being reduced to nondescript black blob-people in the classic version, not as a portrayal of capitalism but maybe because technology was worse back in the day. The framing does not hide anything because both are still there to be interpreted, but it performs sleight of hand - the gorilla walking through a room of people passing a ball around.

[@theabirde]

.

[@miimiiandco]

It would be kinda odd to see the return of hit character "Truck Driver from Mario Bros. Game and Watch", so Wario was put there instead.

[@Ajwontpay]

I'm not sure your analysis of the remakes is particularly fair. The switch to cakes makes more sense interpreted as a kid friendly maneuver than a conscientious move away from the factory - barrels generally don't carry the same imagery/metaphor as bottles do in relation to alcohol (see: barrels as storage for milk or butter; Being outside is obviously different -- and definitely more divorced from the factory. I don't think the lack of a physical boss reprimand is an indication of the sanitization of the game, however - look at the color of the "miss" head at roughly 24:59. going a second back , that is Wario's color scheme and notably, red is a color that can exist in the sky. Why does that matter? I suspect simply that they've changed the boss to be Wario. Clearly the first remake is depicting Wario as the greedy capitalist - he winces when product is lost. The second remake is harder -- I think your analysis partially fails when you assume that Wario is a coworker - obviously this is more of a stretch but it is reasonable to read Wario not necessarily as a full-on "boss" but as a representation of the taking of labor - i.e. he extracts value from the system without putting value you in. Like a typical middleman, he produces nothing (he doesn't produce the cake). Here he isn't necessarily a boss but another cog in the system producing similar problems.

[@10thletter40]

And as an addition Wario delivers these goods while taking all the credit, meanwhile providing no help in the general situation that exists, this situation mainly being Bowser. I do think Bowser was brushed over much too quickly as he is something that exists only to mess with the workers being taken advantage of. He has near immediate power and he does not even stop the entire factory but reverses direction of productivity. Bowser may not be the boss, yet he definitely is some powerful negative entity within that not even middle of the pack Wario wants to deal with in his greed. Think about it this way- Wario is quite greedy and complains when something goes awry, he does not want to do much of the dirty work, fine, but it seems out of character for any of them to leave Bowser like this. Wario didn't order a take down of Bowser at any point? It must be because he(Bowser) symbolizes something important! In my opinion, I see Bowser as a troublesome boss that threatens them on a daily basis of their jobs unrelentingly; during this time he does not realize that he is a flaw in the system himself and is actually discouraging productivity by his aggressive ways. [I think both points made here were great and I hope I contributed!]

[@gormster]

My guess for the switch to cakes is much more straightforward: the game boy screen simply didn’t have the resolution for crates of bottles to be legible. The shapes on the G&W LCD screens could be made as fine as any printed artwork - the bottles are clearly distinguishable by shape alone. The cakes in the original remake are much lower fidelity, and need a ton of colour to be even vaguely recognisable. The GBA version could have perhaps gone back to bottles, but it’s still a challenge to squeeze something that complex into so few pixels.

[@dasgettopikachu7878]

yes

[@timverma]

Drivers are not "extracting value without putting value in" they are a key component in the creation of value. Cake or bottles in say Milwaukee only have value outside of Milwaukee if it can be delivered, similar to how a pile of sand isn't a window until someone makes it into glass, a product isn't valuable until someone can deliver it. Otherwise your analysis is great.

[@jojbenedoot7459]

@@timverma I think OP is reading Wario as capitalist instead of Wario as coworker

[@genuineangusbeef8697]

I was expecting a video on Mario Bros, the game with the pipes and flies and that got ported to every Mario advance game. I got messages on the exploitation of workers under capitalism being linked a few casual steps away from Donkey Kong Jr Math

[@Metroyeti17]

It really do be like that

[@genuineangusbeef8697]

8:05 I need this timestamp 9:45 this one too

[@MrCmon113]

There's no indication that it's a capitalist factory. As we speak people are forced to work in China and North Korea. Actually forced by the government, not "forced" by circumstance.

[@thuslyandfurthermore]

"donkey kong jr is an unreliable narrator is the second hardest claim to take seriously i made about donkey kong jr in this video" i can't

[@MariaNicolae]

Nice profile picture ;)

[@RichConnerGMN]

oh hi timestoppa and i agree, nice pfp

[@RichConnerGMN]

@@MariaNicolae pretty sure i've been commenting "nice pfp" on comments where the poster has a pride flag in their profile pic for a year because of this reply

[@thuslyandfurthermore]

@smelly paws hell yeah nothing we can't do you're right

[@fatgods2921]

Just an absolutely bizarre turn of events in this thread. This is what makes KZbin comments so special.

[@KamilDrakari]

I'm glad you included the all-important Donkey Kong Jr. Math in your investigation into the character and motivations of Mario.

[@HiddenDragon555]

I think the original game was made from the perspective of "factory work is harsh and unfair" but not in a Marxist framing of it. What I mean is that this game doesn't directly say anything about capitalism or what social structure led Mario and Luigi into the position their in now. For all we know they might be in feudalist society (in some weird alternative universe where it share space with cars and automatic machines) or in the Soviet Union or some other system I don't have the imagination to consider. This is however based off looking at the gameplay alone, if there is a manual somewhere that says that the game is set in Boston, that would tell us that they are packing bottles under capitalism. To put it another way, "factory work is harsh and unfair" is a message that is blatant a part of the text, but "this is an inevitable fact of life" or "this is something that needs to be changed" are judgements you bring from your own perspective and the game makes as much sense with both views.

[@gnostechnician]

That's a good point that I didn't consider. While I imagine the authorial intent was that they work for money as it is a game made by late 20th century (Japanese? American?) businesspeople, that's not part of the work and is something we're projecting.

[@iosefka7774]

Factories and industrialisation are intimately intertwined with capitalism. That is all the evidence we need.

[@gnostechnician]

@@iosefka7774 They definitely are, and it is far from a stretch to assume that overworked factory workers are being worked for money. It is, in fact, the most straightforward interpretation by far, and almost certainly that of the authors. But using solely the information provided by the game, it is entirely consistent to read their unfair treatment as being at the hands of an authority not based on capitalism. Unlikely in the real world context! But consistent with the work.

[@iosefka7774]

@@gnostechnician Using only what is given by the game, you cannot make an analysis. Any statements about the text will amount to nothing more than "there were flashing colours and moving objects".

[@gnostechnician]

@@iosefka7774 Alright, that's fair in a strict sense. In the same way, I need external info (the english language and confidence in the alphabet to represent it) to understand your message. I suppose textual analysis requires a qualifier of "...assuming that the things I have percieved represent what I believe they do." At that point one could make arguments about how can we be sure that we're percieving anything at all and not vividly hallucinating, but I'm no philosopher.

[@ExtremeBirdTypography]

"Please don't expect me to do anything like this ever again," he says, as he scrawls out the beginnings of a deep-dive into the nuances and discrepancies in every 'Super Mario' game which won't see completion until over a year later.

[@supermakermatic2111]

It's not like Nintendo would go out of their way to avoid an explicitly anti-capitalist game, there are AT LEAST two Nintendo games with very open anti-capitalist themes: Mother 3, and Freshly-Picked: Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland. Neither of those games were released in America (and even without the themes they'd be hopeless there, one's a sequel to a game nobody brought upon it's initial release while the other one stars a character universally hated by western players.) through the latter did get an English localisation for the UK. Neither are particularly subtle either, with M3 depicting a small post-apocalyptic town torn apart by the introduction of money and "Happy Boxes", useless televisions that only remind the owner how "worthwhile" their purchase was, and TRR depicting a money god who lures people in with the idea of eternal riches and glory so he can turn them into slaves.

[@SteamEngine-yz6yy]

Universally hated?! We all love Tingle! Everyone loves Tingle! Tingle is the only god worth worshiping!

[@daredaemon8878]

Tingle may be universally hated in North America but Europe is more or less ambivalent about him. (Which is why Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland did get a European release.)

[@MichaelSotoCE]

What about the pikmin series? Aren't they a bit anti capitalist?

[@bobboberson8297]

@@MichaelSotoCE Pikmin 1 doesn't really say much about capitalism, it's about surviving in an alien land. Pikmin 2 is about a company in debt, although the game is also clearly critical of instant loan companies. So still doesn't really say much about capitalism. Pikmin 3 I guess criticizes over consumption of resources but that's not inherently anti capitalist (you can over consume under any economic system). I suppose you could say they criticize greed, although in pikmin 2 you get rewarded for your greed in the end by becoming rich (golden ship, etc.)

[@MsDestroyer900]

I mean to be fair, there is much to be desired in America's hyper capitalist society. But let's just leave it at that..

[@spectrelex3051]

you could've considered the japanese work ethic, including karoshi (overwork death) when considering how much they work. it could be the reason why they work until they fail, instead of taking more breaks.

[@joshualuigi220]

An immense issue with this analysis is that it takes a very "western" view of the game. The entire game is infused with japanese DNA, down to Mario and Luigi profusely bowing when reprimanded by their boss.

[@Scornfull]

His analysis is just a basic Marxist view of capitalism with zero substance

[@Scornfull]

@@joshualuigi220 ikr the economy and culture of Japan and the US is almost perfect polar opposites so to apply western ideals to Japanese culture inherently makes no sense and makes him sound like he's reaching heavily for a conclusion to fit his own bias even if there is no evidence to support it

[@JESUSWASAJUGGALO]

@@joshualuigi220 how is class analysis antithetical to "japanese DNA"? japan has had large radical socialist & workers' movements at several points throughout its modern history, especially during the postwar era. they even have a literal communist party represented in parliament to this day.

[@kargaroc386]

@@joshualuigi220 As if they were kneeling before a god-king, pleading for divine mercy.

[@SnoFitzroy]

I heard "The elegance of world war one" and was VERY confused until I remembered how "world 1-1" is pronounced lol

[@Soredli]

@smelly paws I agree its cringe but if he redraws the eyes it would be more better but also don't be rude.

[@olipolygon]

when are we gonna see mario's origins fighting in the great war

[@olipolygon]

@smelly paws you just really don't like pride flags, do you?

[@olipolygon]

@smelly paws oh, you're one of *those* people. yeah okay, have fun twisting the words of God to justify your bigotry. meanwhile, i'm going to continue to spend my time doing my best to be a decent human being. goodnight

[@Soredli]

@@olipolygon pride flags are bad, in fact every flag is terrible.

[@jamiee7367]

Me at 12am: "It's getting real late. I should be going to bed." * Sees jan Misali posted a new video *: "I stand corrected."

[@coltonbates629]

Lol im in the exact same situation

[@twentyspires]

just did exactly the same thing

[@Flowtail]

'just submitted a really big assignment for school, time for bed' Jan misali: here's that mario bros video I teased in the hangman v me: **clickclickclickclickclick**

[@dekucake]

"Don't ever expect me to do anything like this ever again" _Proceeds to make two seperate videos going down deeper and deeper rabbit holes trying to determine what games are considered Mario games, and we love him for it_

[@deryckchan]

I think you're entirely right in your analysis of Mario Bros' underlying "story". Conscious or not, the game's makers told the story of shachiku ("wage slavery") and karoshi ("overwork death"), two phenomena that were already prevalent in Japanese society at the time of its release, and the former of which continues as a central thread of Japanese society today. The game's makers did not provide any critique of it, but rather simply presented the social phenomenon as it really was. ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A4%BE%E7%95%9C en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi

[@relo999]

Except he paints it with a heavy socialist coating, seeing as there is no indication of capitalism. And Mario is outright shown as anything but working class in most games at that point in time (Unless hunting and keeping captive Gorilla is a particular working class thing to do. If anything that fits more in colonial ruling class behaviour). I think a much fairer interpretation would simply be showing the issues of overworking (not so much Karoshi, seeing as they don't suffer physically from it).

[@thekeyandthegate4093]

@@relo999 I don't know if it's a particularly socialist coating necessarily, but I agree that capitalism is not implied by the game under any real pretense, and as such, part of his argument is inherently flawed, as he fails to present any evidence that the narrative is indicative of a capitalist system. It would be just as fair to argue that the game is about the exploitation of the proletariat under socialism.

[@relo999]

@@thekeyandthegate4093 Well in my experience socialists tend to coat everything with either a heavy coating of "anti-rich", "Anti-employer" or "anti-capitalist" more often than not going out of their way, law of 5's style, to come to such a conclusion. Which happens here in this video. If you want to interpret it as some deep narrative art piece and not some piece of interactive art that had a simple understandable imagery painted over it to make it easier to understand and far less abstract. The best you can get is some message about overworking or some message about if you work to hard you make mistakes. Certainly not some faux deep social commentary about the state of capitalism.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

@@thekeyandthegate4093 _> It would be just as fair to argue that the game is about the exploitation of the proletariat under socialism._ Where is the strike button on the controller?

[@Scornfull]

the part he got wrong is thinking that it was capitalism's fault when it was more of a cultural issue

[@Scrogan]

I think there’s some possible reading to be done into the fact that the pace/difficulty continually increases. Assuming this is a selfish machination of the factory manager is certainly one valid view, but perhaps instead it’s a representation of the passing of years and years, and that these low-wage workers are finding their ageing bodies more and more unable to keep up with the actually unchanging pace of their work. Both are consistent with the game’s pace being the pace observed by the player character(s), and both paint somewhat bad pictures of the management of these factories, alluding towards exploitative labour. But second view can also have something for young unskilled workers to learn from, that remaining working unskilled labour jobs without avenues for promotion is a road that doesn’t end well. Because as you said, the canonical ending is that the workers are unable to keep up and are eventually fired, after potentially a relatively long time playing the game. Similar to the fate of the aged protagonist of Death of a Salesman, though that isn’t exactly a manual labour job.

[@NoodleJab]

damn bro that's some heady shit. I like that analysis

[@godminnette2]

The Mario Bros. Game 'n Watch game being about the exploitation of workers under capitalism isn't the video I expected from jan, but it's one I needed.

[@vasilivros4166]

Tho I honestly think that the interpretation falls flat if you consider the points to represent wage. He uses the argument that points in donkey kong jr aren't money, and in general points only represent an abstract concept in games but this line of reasoning misses that Mario Bros ISN'T Donkey Kong or other games. If we allow just taking other pieces of media and pick and choose the meaning between them then any interpretation could sound valid. Also, isn't it arbitrary that he sees the fact that the game only ends when the player loses as something that has literary meaning, but not points, despite the fact that both are equally abstract concepts that come from the fact that it's a video game? Additionally, if we consider the points to be merely abstracts then what about the figure that yells at Mario and Luigi when they screw up? Why do we interpret that as a boss if it's fine to just hand wave the points as an "abstract"? That figure just as well could be their other coworker who works off screen or literally anyone. All we know is that someone gets pissed when the bros screw up. This video is really lacking in consistency in many places just to try and see more meaning in old af simple game. Sure, you can try interpreting a thing like that, but what's the point of you're not consistent in your logic?

[@batatagan9087]

@@vasilivros4166 I disagree. First, not only is it implicit that it was indeed the boss or some sort of overseer by his role in the game, the instructions booklet (readable at 15:03 ) explicitly refers to him as the foreman. Also, your critique of his conclusion about the scoring system completely ignores the time he spent making a point about Papers,Please, and besides, DK jr and DK are in the same franchise as MB, and Nintendo Wiki claims MB is a direct successor to DK ( nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Mario_Bros._(Game_%26_Watch) ), so it's completely fair to compare the meaning and purpose the mechanic has in MB to its meaning and purpose in these games. Furthermore, your point about the significance of the game over being the only ending failing when compared to DK or being held at the same scrutiny as the scoring system ignores the entire rant beginning at 20:38 . (sorry for the bad english btw)

[@jojbenedoot7459]

@@vasilivros4166 don't forget that the Mario franchise makes a distinction between currency (coins) and points

[@russellemerine3159]

Sorry to tell you, but "jan" just means "person" in toki pona, his favorite conlang.

[@godminnette2]

@@russellemerine3159 I actually know; I've seen all of conlang critic. I wasn't really thinking when I wrote the comment, more focused on being quick and witty late at night when the video went up then anything else.

[@pigeonboie5899]

I actually think your analysis makes a lot of sense, especially in the context of Japanese worker relations. Where high productivity and long hours are essentially standard expectation (more so than in other places)

[@nutritionalyeast7978]

that's exactly what I thought. Some comments here pointing out that it's technically possible for it to be depicting a factory under some other political system, but like, I'm fairly sure the target audiences are mainly japanese and americans and both countries are notorious for stressful labour conditions, I think that's enough reason to say it's specifically about capitalism

[@Scornfull]

@@nutritionalyeast7978 but it really isn't, you can work people like this under any system but the actual meaning was of Japanese culture how there is so much social pressure to work hard and not ask for pay raises. Japan has the problem of deflation because people are so cheap there and work so hard that everything isn't worth that much you really should watch a video on Japanese culture and economics instead of pushing your western views onto it

[@jessecooper5900]

"Dont expect me to do anything like this ever again." PLEASE DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS AGAIN XD

[@Tesseract_King]

From August 2021: they just did something like this again!

[@trolololo720]

During the premiere of "Hangman is a weird game" Misali, upon being asked why he doesn't use capital letters, responded that he is not a capitalist. I am now convinced this was a direct foreshadowing of this video.

[@yanstein8464]

based

[@skyemegakitty]

Miyamoto has said in the past that he loved the cartoon Popeye. In the cartoon Popeye, each of the characters fills a different role depending on the episode. Sometimes Bluto is a rich railroad baron, sometimes he is a sea captain, and Popeye and Olive Oil change their roles in a much similar way. Miyamoto recognized the utility in this and pictured doing something similar with his own characters to create a "virtual acting troupe". I think Donkey Kong Jr. is the last true vestige of this idea we got before Miyamoto gave up on it. Yes we have Mario Kart and Mario Tennis and Mario Party, but none of those interface with the characters to create a narrative that conflicts with the other games. To all appearances, the characters are having fun rather than actually playing a different character.

[@Hewer86]

The "troupe of actors" thing is from an interview in which Miyamoto said it in response to a question about Mario Tennis

[@dainess2919]

This is an excellent video. I only have one major thing to point out: a company wouldn't necessairly refuse to publish a piece of work that criticizes the system they profit from. Many of them do it regularly, btw - most major anti-capitalist work you see is produced/funded by media conglomerates. The critique by itself is at best harmless and at worse it's a boon to the perpetuation oh the system by internalizing the opposition.

[@Scornfull]

they want a revolt because in the end they want to be the ones in power of a socialist state

[@MrCmon113]

That makes no sense whatsoever. "Internalizing" what? When I publish a piece of media complaining about "capitalism", that's one more piece of media like that. It's not taking away what's already out there.

[@dainess2919]

@@MrCmon113 I've literally seen this video like 2 years ago so I don't remember a lot of it, but, um, "internalizing" the opposition that is. If I publish a critical piece about a magazine in that same magazine, I'm actually giving that magazine the credibility of being a valid vehicle of public discourse insofar my criticisms. Compare that with distributing a pamphlet about such a magazine - this act doesn't necessairly contains by itself any tacit validation of the magazine. Of course, it's not slightly realistic to expect any media procution of today to exist outside the economic system of capitalism, but that was not the point. Jan makes it seem like a media work criticizing the system would be ostracized by those who profit, but those who profit are actually very willing to internalize these criticisms because the very act of it's veiculation on mainstream media validates the system itself more than anything. Most work that is truly revolutionary and that truly wishes to demolish a system usually are distributed in a very marginal way - think about the punk scene, zines, etc. I guess if you really went bonkers and gave a batshit really controversial idea to US conservatism (because that's where the money usually comes from) maybe you would get blacklisted/arrested. I don't know, making a Mormon historical movie whose morals were "it's legitimate to murder every christian" in a very explicit way. But I'd be willing to bet you could pass associated with a name with enough clout (idk Nolan just to throw a name out there). And even if you were blacklisted this would be a great indicator of the difference between a threatening criticism and just harmless ones.

[@spiderstheythem]

until you said "technically you could play this game with 2 players" i had kinda assumed that playing with 2 players *was* the intended mode of play

[@MoonwalkerWorshiper]

The intention was ingenuity, the ability for kids to choose for themselves if they wanna share the game.

[@billyweed835]

I think Bowser is meant to be the boss in the remakes. Watching over and interfering with the machine to make things harder. Makes sense, since he's the boss in the games he appears in, in the sense of the "guy you fight".

[@etepeteseat7424]

One thing that was missed out, though I'm not certain exactly what effect it ought to have on your analysis: in Donkey Kong, Jumpman (Mario) wasn't just some guy whose girlfriend was taken, but DK's circus keeper, and DK took Pauline after escaping from Jumpman's confinement. Hence why, in DK Jr., Mario has DK caged and is attempting to prevent his release-aside from any justifiable concerns about safety resulting from DK's release, it's also literally Mario's job to keep DK captive. Potentially Jumpman may have instigated DK's escape and kidnapping of Pauline by mistreating him, but regardless, it's likely that it's just part of a loosely-cobbled together set of character motivations derived from the King Kong reference underlying the character framing. That, of course, is essentially just an interesting choice made to preserve the essence of the Popeye-Olive-Bluto rivalry dynamic, but it's an interesting thing to analyze on its own, and could have implications for trying to interpret all canon Mario games as connected. In any case, this was really fun and interesting, and as a philosopher, I fully support your decision to analyze a Game-and-Watch game. Never let 'em tell you you're overthinking! XD;

[@bongo50_]

This video was so interesting. I consider myself a huge mario fan with a large knowledge of mario’s history, yet much of what was brought up here was new to me.

[@Respectable_Username]

I see the Mario Bros. Game & Watch game as a metaphor for developer crunch. The same set of people are expected to do increasingly more work to reach arbitrary deadlines set by the Boss, but the harder work is only rewarded with more work to do. I can see this being the explicit theme the creator intended, and Nintendo removing it from later games so they didn't look like a shitty place to work.

[@MoonwalkerWorshiper]

Nintendo did a makeover to all their games to fit little kids rather than the more all-encompassing theme of "hard work" which would appeal to everyone. Mario actually doing some work would make him a sympathetic hero as oppose to the generic cookie-cutter good for nothing "yahoo" babbling plastic toy.

[@Sasparilla_]

yeah you're right this game is more than a social statement, it's a cry for help they at nintendo are just like the mario bros, constantly trying to fit the act of fitting a massive game into 40 kb into however many months

[@zyaicob]

Genuinely the realest and best reading of the text

[@_pitako]

You didn't say the best part of that tumblr post in part 5: "It's all spiders in the bathroom to him. He's equally terrified of everything, and that makes him invincible"

[@DefinitivNichtSascha]

11:48 "[Luigi]'s equally terrified of everything, and that makes him invincible." It also makes him unfathomably brave, braver than Mario, I'd argue. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather acting despite the presence of fear." and this describes Luigi well. When he's in action, he's always scared, whereas Mario often show no signs of fear. So often times, Mario isn't brave, he's fearless. And I think that's what Luigi would like to be instead of brave, even though courage is by no means a lesser virtue.

[@dayveo]

"Donkey Kong Jr is an unreliable narrator." Love this analysis

[@pbjwizard]

When nobody was looking, Lex Luthor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.

[@kappagrapes]

"please don't expect me to do anything like this ever again" - that's fair and valid but also this is one of the most delightful video game analyses I've ever watched and I hope you get inspired to do another one someday

[@JacobRy]

"As such the mario franchise needs no introduction" Chapter title : *I N T R O D U C T I O N*

[@connorconnor1631]

"the mario franchise needs no introduction" -the section named introduction

[@juanpablograjalescanseco28]

This vídeo is sooo well put together. Despite your unassuming presentation, you have a real knack for storytelling. It shows in all your videos. You're great!

[@mrsteamie4196]

"Don't expect me to do anything like this again" "Uh... *how many* super Mario games are there?"

[@prettyokiguess8369]

Time to ask the real question: What about yoshi's safari?

[@picotrains8064]

That is the creation myth of the Mario Universe.

[@tarastargaze3833]

"Don't expect me to do anything like this ever again." He would go on to make a video about Mario games under a more general umbrella a year later.

[@lazula]

Regarding the speed at which they work increasing, they could be paid piece-wages rather than time-wages and thus be pressured to overwork themselves just to get a wage comparable to a standard time-wage.

[@mchevre]

"Spikey fire breathing turtle monster" lmao I feel like I've just now realized for the first time in my life how absurd Bowser actually is

[@leem4386]

i feel like this video is gonna be the next “a better way to count”. mitch, i’m so glad you’re starting to get the recognition you deserve.

[@RicardoMenson]

21:39 there are jobs where you are paid not per hour but per products made or customers served.

[@CastafioreOnYoutube]

Really none of us expected him to pull out the *Donkey Kong Jr. Math*

[@Quoise_]

i reaaaaly love the idea that donkey kong jr is an unreliable narrator and i’m going to believe that for the rest of my life

[@five_6_seven_8]

I like how we begin talking about the game at part 7

[@asdfghyter]

I have an extremely fringe theory: Bowser represents their boss in all of the Mario games and the whole game series outside of Game and Watch Mario Bros is just a fantasy of two overworked factory workers.

[@benservey9295]

Finally, someone discuses the lore implications of Donkey Kong Jr. Math

[@JamesSonOfBaboonzo]

21:35 There are jobs that pay by productivity/units moved rather than by wages. This is less common in the modern day, but it isn't unheard of. For example my father has worked seasonal jobs on farms where he harvested crops, and he was paid per bushel of crops that he harvested. As you might imagine, this caused the laborers that were brought on for the harvest to race against each other, and push for things to go faster. I have also found in my experience as a laborer that the coworkers of mine that believed that they would "get paid less by doing more", would tend to get really angry when myself and others who worked faster and were more productive got raises/bonuses/overtime opportunities while they got passed over. Effective bosses/employers tend to know that they should encourage productivity by rewarding it in a similar manner to a game dev rewarding desired player behaviours with points. In my opinion, rather than saying that the points that are very directly tied to the Mario Bros. labor are merely a gameplay contrivance, it makes more sense that points are a direct representation of earnings, thus making the goal of the Player and the Player Characters to be one and the same. Not gonna lie, it kinda sounds kinda like you chose your interpretation of points for this video just because it was the hotter take. Which is fair, and the arguments you made are internally sound, I just think that the more literal reading of the game fits better in some aspects.

[@relo999]

He's also assuming they are working under capitalism, which there is no indication of. As well as assume both Mario and Luigi are working class, yet Mario is shown being exactly the opposite at that point in history. (unless hunting and capturing Gorilla's is a particularly working class thing to do)

[@davidwuhrer6704]

@@relo999 Is animal control a working class job or not?

[@relo999]

@@davidwuhrer6704 Generally not, pest control is but dealing with dangerous animals or big animals isn't. Hunting gorilla's has always been extremely posh upper class.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

@@relo999 So if a gorilla breaks loose from the London Zoo, Prince Albert will have to go catch it?

[@relo999]

@@davidwuhrer6704 Well Donkey Kong isn't shown to live in London, more often than not the jungle. The jungle is where posh upperclass hunts exotic animals. Even the original Donkey Kong takes place in some unidentified construction site. And we don't know if Gorilla's are native to the area where that construction site it (though sequels suggest that they are). But to answer your question directly If they want to kill the Gorilla they'd hire big game hunters, which are mostly posh upper class people. And if they want to capture one alive you have some posh upper class big game hunters with tranq darts and probably some animal behaviour expert from som fancy uni.

[@rikkij]

i'm really really digging these analysis style video essays jan misali, keep it up! you have really insightful commentary on a lot of aspects of gameplay and mechanics, it definitely makes for a very interesting watch. it's also really good that you're expanding from just shitposting and conlang critic every few months lol.

[@bananacat3109]

1 year late but Secret Base already did MMA. It’s called “Fighting in the Age of Loneliness”

[@hongxiawang2049]

"Tic Tac Toe is a weird game"

[@kargaroc386]

In an alternate universe not that far from our own, there was a Super Popeye 64.

[@catoticneutral]

The idea that Wario is just one of Mario's coworkers at his short-lived cake/bottles packaging factory job actually kinda works. I mean, it explains why he looks similar, they're literally dressed to work at the same place.

[@MarcelloSevero]

Tiny note: Wages under capitalism are not intrinsically tied to working hours, but rather to the minimum cost required to keep a laborer at their job.

[@timothymclean]

They are only tied to working hours due to labor laws imposed by government regulation, one of the least capitalistic forces in our world. (In principle, anyways.)

[@MarcelloSevero]

@@timothymclean Nah dude, capitalism would collapse without minimal government regulation. Try avoiding mass strikes without a minimum wage.

[@timothymclean]

@@MarcelloSevero Pure anything would fail. But judging by how often workers went on strike before minimum wage laws and the like existed (sometimes, but it took a while before they started doing that), it seems your analysis is incomplete.

[@MarcelloSevero]

@@timothymclean I mean there are certainly plenty of capitalist states without minimum wages, but I know that for instance the American minimum wage was originally legislated in response to the Great Depression, which was the greatest crisis American capitalism has ever faced.

[@reillywalker195]

@@MarcelloSevero Nations with market economies that lack minimum wages also have strong labour laws, strong public sectors, and prevalent unionization, all of which take the place of the role minimum wages play in other jurisdictions. Some of them straddle the line between social democracy and democratic socialism. Norway may arguably be democratic socialist for two reasons: the Norwegian government's dominance over the nation's largest source of wealth, and right to roam legislation limiting the application of the concept of private property. Singapore may also seem like a capitalist paradise given its emphasis on economic freedom, yet the fact that a majority of its population lives in public housing and that its government maintains social programs much like other rich nations together make calling Singapore a wholly capitalist nation a false assertion.

[@NeonNobility]

the Mario Bros G&W remakes are so disorienting from all the camera movement each time you load a package on the truck

[@meraarts8136]

I’m now super excited because we still have that game and watch. My father bought it once randomly and now it turns out to be the first time Luigi ever appeared.

[@mccookies3664]

When I woke up this morning I didn't expect to watch jan Misali give an anticapitalist analysis of Mario Bros. for the Game and Watch, but I must say, I like it.

[@MrCmon113]

There's no indication that it's a capitalist factory. As we speak people are literally forced to work in China and North Korea.

[@lydiasteinebendiksen4269]

"Some of you may know the game I'm talking about, and seeing the length of the video may wonder how I'm gonna spend so long talking about it" Me: Autism? (Said from a place of love and relatability)

[@christiandevey3898]

When watching this video, I came to the conclusion that the factory and bottling/baking are an allegory for working in the video game industry

[@davidwuhrer6704]

Fits thematically with the Wario Shovelware Inc game.

[@martzlolxd]

I love how this analysis coincides perfectly with the start of the Mario movie. Very good analysis.

[@michaeldonodeo1693]

DK jr. was a take on mass incarceration based on someone's socioeconomic status and the effect it had on families

[@JamesSonOfBaboonzo]

YES! Oh my God I want to see a video essay on this now!

[@imfsresidentotaku9699]

It can’t be. That doesn’t make sense within the narrative. Donkey Kong wasn’t incarcerated based on his socioeconomic status, but his crimes in the first game.

[@imfsresidentotaku9699]

⁠​⁠@@JamesSonOfBaboonzoSo you want a video essay on an interpretation that is absolutely 100% NOT the story being told in Donkey Kong Jr. in any way shape or form.

[@JamesSonOfBaboonzo]

@@imfsresidentotaku9699 yeah that would be funny.

[@RyanJGaffney]

I think the cake is due to the fact that since SM64 Cakes have been something of a theme element for Mario. He likes cakes. This Recurs in Mario Party and New Super Mario Bros Wii . It's like, one of the 6 things we know about him.

[@grahamklimasewski3562]

god what I would do for some sort of outdoor cake making machine

[@davidwuhrer6704]

Cake making machines exist. They are usually not left outdoors though. Someone might steal them, and they are very expensive.

[@joniivee]

Holy heck this was excellent. I was fully expecting you to talk about the arcade game but this somehow ended up being even more interesting, especially bringing the remakes into it.

[@seansmagee]

I actually really like the explanation that Donkey Kong, Jr. is an unreliable narrator; especially because it justifies the opening cutscene (which is definitely something that didn’t require justification, but I appreciate it nonetheless).

[@hahasamian8010]

21:28 I feel like this is very unfair and assumes the worst of a capitalist society. "Getting paid less to work more" is not inherent to capitalism, nor are wages being tied to how many hours you work and nothing else. You could say Mario and Luigi got a raise because they were hard workers, but you could also say they are in fact being paid for how much work they do (I don't think it's too hard to measure).

[@nonagon4266]

not quite. wages in an ideal capitalist system are decided by how much supply and demand there is for a certain job. therefore, your work could be incredibly hard, but as long as you are easily replaceable, your wage remains low. this actually makes the narrative even more interesting, in my opinion. mario and luigi are very clearly not replaceable, as shown by how fast and productive they can be. however, we still know mario as this happy go lucky character. it is possible that despite their hard work, their wages remain the same due to factory work being a low paying job on a macro level, and this is where exploitation comes into play. this also implies, however, that the mario universe has real world economics, which even if it isn't true, is fun to think about.

[@nonagon4266]

by the way, this exploitation isn't something I just randomly conceived of. this is something happening all over the real world today. to call upon my own personal experience, I work at a restaurant. since the start of the pandemic, we've been severely understaffed because of a shortage in workers. however, due to most of our sales coming from deliveries, the company didn't take a huge hit in revenue during the pandemic. theoretically, my coworkers and I should be getting paid a lot more than we were before the start of the pandemic, but unfortunately the truth is that employers will pay the lowest possible wage that they can get away with without stirring up anger. on second notice, this is something very applicable to this videos original analysis of mario bros.

[@hahasamian8010]

@@nonagon4266 I get that, I suppose. Thank you for offering your perspective! (I might have some thoughts later but IDK)

[@nonagon4266]

@@hahasamian8010 no problem. that being said I still take contention with this interpretation. (this is going to be long) while its valid as an interpretation, its not very interesting. the game itself doesn't give a critique of society, but merely gives us a simple setting, simple characters, and a simple objective. it doesn't show us what mario and luigi's lives are like outside of work, it doesn't tell us if their physical and emotional needs are being met, and it doesn't tell us what mario and luigi believe, and how their beliefs are affected by any broader ideology or culture around them. it doesn't even tell us what mario and luigi are doing this for. they could be doing it to survive, they could be doing it for a bit of extra money, who knows? however, even if you are to use this working class interpretation, what message does this give to the game? one might claim that this interpretation suggests that capitalism is a flawed system, which i would agree it is, but at this point we have already assumed so much about this game (mainly that it takes place in a capitalist society to begin with. for all we know, the 'boss' could be their democratically elected manager and mario and luigi could've voted to just keep working forever.) that this interpretation is a complete and total projection. its just not a deep enough game to take a stance, or more importantly, to question or critique anything. that's just my view tho, and im a complete idiot, so feel free to explain to me how and why I'm wrong.

[@hahasamian8010]

@@nonagon4266 It seems like the most obvious interpretation. You're right in that it's not very fleshed out, but just because it's simplistic doesn't mean it can't have a message I guess. It seems like it'd be best to play this for a few minutes and say "this says a lot about society" for laughs or something

[@plentyofpaper]

Why are there 2 Marios in Donkey Kong Jr? Clearly, one of them is Luigi. It was his first day at work, and the company only had one color of uniform at the time. Or possibly Donkey Kong Jr. was red/green colorblind.

[@alwayssleepy2476]

I just stumbled across this video when I was looking up Chris Pratt Mario memes but I’m glad I did. This was such a interesting analysis on the game and watch version of Mario bros. I know this video is from 2 years ago but great work 👍

[@somebodyhere3160]

“Mushrooms are drugs”

[@jqs.20]

now that's what i call a really bad joke

[@somebodyhere3160]

Juliet S indeed

[@10thletter40]

Psychedelics*

[@حَسن-م3ه9ظ]

"i have achived... COMEDY!"

[@Semicomedichare]

Okay I 100% need a shirt that says “as established in donkey Kong Jr math”

[@jaybee27D]

I feel very blueballed waiting 13 minutes only to have you analyze a different game than I anticipated. But that thesis sure made up for it.

[@eliotcamel7799]

Exploitation in a factory workplace, in which the machines get faster, and the workload becomes overwhelming: That used to be a common trope. I'm sure the original Mario bros. was at least inspired by it.

[@artemis_smith]

I could be wrong but I suspect the original trope itself has origins in the early industrial labor movement. The image of the beaten and overworked factory worker is an evocative image when arguing for worker's rights. The early labor movement was largely (though not exclusively) anti-capitalist.

[@VivitheBlossom]

I don't know why I never left this comment during the countless times I've watched the video already. I believe there is another interpretation for the disparity between Mario in Donkey Kong and Mario in Donkey Kong Jr. which fits with his establishment as a working class hero. Mario in DK Jr. is not motivated by love and heroism like in DK. He is most likely employed by whoever owns the circus that keeps Donkey Kong. It could be that his cruelty stems from a dislike for Donkey Kong for stealing Pauline. I think it's more alienated though. Mario, the hero who beat Donkey Kong, got the job of guarding his cage after DK was captured. Mario's uncharacteristic stoic and static behavior are the result of him not really liking the job. He needs the job to get by, but he may have a distaste for the animal cruelty and the fact that he isn't really producing any goods. What happens in DK Jr is done for circus entertainment, and Mario prefers to do productive and helpful labor. As a result he's just stoicly going through the motions that are required of him to get his paycheck and isn't more energetic, like in the arcade Mario Bros game.

[@ninjabunny9526]

I'm pretty sure that canonically speaking, the Mario and Donkey Kong in the original Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr are the father and grandfather respectively of the modern day Mario and Donkey Kong. We know for a fact that Cranky Kong is the original Donkey Kong, as is explained in the Donkey Kong Country series, so it would stand to reason that the Mario we see in every Mario game after Donkey Kong Jr is the son or even the grandson of the Mario from Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.

[@HBMmaster]

nah, in super mario odyssey pauline explicitly says that mario is the one who saved her from donkey kong

[@ninjabunny9526]

@@HBMmaster that is actually referencing the games in the Mario vs Donkey Kong series, where the two usually friendly individuals face off after Donkey Kong kidnaps Pauline, who is most likely the daughter or granddaughter of the original Pauline, or even possibly the current Mario's sister or cousin, and Mario has to rescue her/ use toy versions of himself to rescue her. It is usually shown in those games that the reason DK kidnaps Pauline isn't because of their former interactions in Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr, but rather because Pauline and Mario are more popular than him/ the toy versions of them are more popular than the toy versions of him.

[@HBMmaster]

is that what's most likely. is that legitimately the most likely interpretation of the text

[@ninjabunny9526]

@@HBMmaster well, we know about how old Mario canonically is, as in the Mario vs Wario comic series, Mario states that his childhood was about twenty years ago, which would put Mario somewhere from his twenties to thirties, yet Mario in the original Donkey Kong arcade and game and watch games was supposed to be middle aged, which he definitely looked like if you look at the cabinet art for the games. Not only that, but since we know that the original Donkey Kong grew old and was replaced as the Kong clan patriarch by his grandchild, we would have to assume that some time has passed, and since we know that the current Donkey Kong is two generations separated from the original, and that the average lifespan of apes is 30-60 years old depending on the specific species, we can be extremely charitable and say that only 15 years pass in-between the original Donkey Kong game and the new Donkey Kong being born. I've seen wikis and other sights get the current donkey kong's age as 25, but I don't know where that comes from, but nevertheless he is clearly a grown ape. So the idea that the original DK could grow old, DK Jr could also grow old, and that DK III could reach at least adulthood without Mario getting at least one gray hair, not to mention that by the time he'd met Wario and gone on a few adventures with him only have his childhood be about twenty years ago seems completely impossible to me.

[@HBMmaster]

mario does have at least one gray hair actually, if you look really close at the super mario odyssey render

[@cryocat2866]

Great video, but as I feel like the points in this game do represent the amount of money the Mario Bros recieve, I have a different interpretation to the game. Sure, in the real world factory workers are paid per hour and not by the amount of work they do, but a) for stuff like farm work you do get more pay for more work you do (at least in the farm I'm going to be working on), and b) the player is rewarded for the more work they do and a higher productivity, making it more akin to a productivity based system over an hour based system. If this was the case where, say every minute you worked you got a set number of points I would agree with your claims, but as this isn't what happens I do interpret the points differently. As a result, under this interpretation I would say the the game is about lack of communication between the workers and the boss has a negative impact on everybody. For a seasoned player playing the early stages of the game (most prominent in Game A), then they would find the game boring as they're effectively waiting around for the packages to arrive. This doesn't benefit the player as they could be getting more points per unit of time they play the game, and it doesn't benefit the company as they're not transporting as many goods as they could do. Of course, after a certain period of time when the game is too fast, the player's probability of making an error increaces, which isn't good for the company (as they're more likely to have a damaged good) or the player (as they're more likely to lose the game). If it was possible for the machine to work at the rate of the player without going too fast, it would be mutually beneficial: the workers would get more points per minute than if it was too slow, and the company would minimise the risk of damaged goods, and this risk increaces if it becomes too fast. Of course, this being a G&W game, at some point the machine will either be too slow or too fast, which makes the game interesting but means the company isn't working to the best of its ability.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

What does the foreman represent? He is not resetting the machine's speed, he is chiding the workers.

[@Boney9551]

These half shitpost half actual video type videos deserve more credit, it takes a lot of skill to walk that fine line

[@adriandecker2698]

I got recommended the hangman video and love jan's videos! His commentary and editing skills are great. The conlang videos seem super interesting but a lot of the terminology goes way over my head, is there an introductory/terminology video he's made or someone else has made that'll make it easier to understand? (also I have no idea if you read your comments are not, if so sorry for referring to you in the third person!)

[@picotrains8064]

The KZbinr Xidnaf has a video series on the IPA that might help you in the phonology sections.

[@adriandecker2698]

@@picotrains8064 Thanks so much! I know a bit from my linguistics class but I only took intro and they only covered english IPA which was pretty basic.

[@picotrains8064]

@@adriandecker2698 No problem. I learned most of the ipa from good old Wikipedia, and just looked up the name of any grammar terminology he mentions in passing I was interested in.

[@cutecommie]

@@adriandecker2698 Being a former Wikipedia addict helps a lot with understanding linguistics videos.

[@biscuitsalive]

So the original “Mario Bros” game is basically reality for anyone working in a Amazon warehouse.

[@a_person5668]

Plot Twist: Wario doesn’t enter the Truck until all the cakes are loaded up and driving away with them all on his own. Before they all go in there, Wario is hiding down below. Is Wario stealing the cakes Mario and Luigi make?

[@MoonwalkerWorshiper]

Yes because every character in the modern Nintendo crap universe is selfish and greedy. Mario wants the cake for himself, as we all know he loves cake, and Wario is even more fat than him. They're all motivated by selfishness. Not like in the real original version where he package bottles for someone else to make society work. Those are probably water bottles because people can't drink tap water in the country he works in.

[@jacklesc3133]

With the Mario Movie coming out, it can be assumed Mario and Luigi's boss is Spike; and the reason why they quit in the movie could be the intense work conditions shown in Mario Bros.

[@TechnoEstate]

Mario isn't just an "empty slate." You don't need a curly mustache and an overall for that. He is an *_anti-hero,_* i.e., a character cast as the hero who usually wouldn't be considered fit for the task. E.g., a fat, Italian plumber -- and one with a mean heart at that (see Donkey Kong Jr.) Part of this anti-hero quality was later "outsourced" to the Nintendo character *_Wario_* to make Mario more "friendly" (i.e., actually more of an "empty slate").

[@reillywalker195]

Or perhaps Mario really isn't as mean as he appears to Junior. Perhaps what Mario was doing was taking Donkey Kong back to the jungle where he belonged and wouldn't cause more trouble, and Junior misunderstood what Mario's intentions actually were. Building on that, Junior freeing his father then set his father free to cause more trouble, namely the events of _Donkey Kong 3_ in which he attacks greenhouses-something Mario was quite plausibly trying to prevent by locking him up.

[@TechnoEstate]

@@reillywalker195 So something like a _dog catcher..._ which is... _usually not a very sympathetic character._ Sure, you can rationalize that he might be a "good guy who's just doing his job"... but... well... you have to _rationalize_ such first, which kinda does prove the broader point. :shrugs:

[@MoonwalkerWorshiper]

Mario started out as a working class hero, stressed out and confused but capable of legendary things, and then turned into a plastic commercial console/toy product. His anti-hero or hero qualities are just as meaningless as Charles Martinet shouting "yahoo" for him. But if you filter out the nonsense of "whatever happens in Nintendo is right" and look at the character with consistency, there is a potential good guy Mario and a potential bad guy Mario. Calling Mario a good guy and Wario a bad guy is, again, completely meaningless. The perspective seems to depend on the player not some objective narrative. Which means Mario IS an empty slate. Your own post just went circle.

[@imfsresidentotaku9699]

@@TechnoEstate We already saw the damage that Donkey Kong was doing in the original game, which is why Mario caught him to begin with. That's more than enough rationalization. And just because a dog catcher "is... usually not a very sympathetic character" doesn't mean that that's the case for all characters of that nature, so this is a nothing burger. You're just taking stereotypes too literally.

[@imfsresidentotaku9699]

That's a very loose definition of "anti-hero." An anti-hero is a main character in a narrative who may lack some conventional heroic qualities and attributes, such as idealism, courage, and morality, all of which Mario has. Saying that he has "a mean heart" in reference to Donkey Kong Jr. is ignoring the context of his actions, thus grossly misrepresenting them. The previous game clearly centers around Mario risking his life to stop a dangerous animal on a rampage and save his girlfriend.

[@bertfromseasamestreet]

"Donkey Kong Jr. is clearly a being of logical reasoning, as demonstrated in Donkey Kong Math." This is my favorite quote.

[@xinus2286]

This video is the real life representation of my sleep paralysis demons its impossible to fully comprehend but i also cant stop looking at it

[@Silver_Knee]

Welcome to the hbomberguy multiverse of serious lore analysis

[@thei9372]

EDIT: For clarity, I'm referring to Luigi I can't tell what's worse; your name being a double entendre that requires knowledge of two different languages to understand that your name is a reference to your lack of depth or the fact that your lack of depth is both an objective fact and intentional design to the point that your name's double meaning independently says more about your character than any other thing about you when you are first unveiled to the world.

[@picotrains8064]

Funny Toki Pono word

[@WishMakers]

This has got to be one of my favorite video essays of all time and I'm only halfway through.

[@andjohn]

Small mistake, Luigi wasn't named from the Japanese word Ruiji, he was named because it was a stereotypical italian name that matched well with mario. This is confirmed by interviews conducted with the developers.

[@pentalarclikesit822]

I have always like the idea that unlike other characters, Mario is an actor. He has all these starring roles, but especially before he got really "big," you can still go "Hey did you know he played the referee in Punch-Out?"

[@stiegmusic]

Regarding the scoring, I think there’s an argument to be made that-instead of representing wages-the score retirarnos wealth generated for the employer. This feels like a more straightforward reading to me; Mario and Luigi are being pushed harder and harder, generating more and more surplus value for the company, while their wages are stagnant.

[@reillywalker195]

Some workplaces offer performance bonuses or pay piece rates, as well. Piece rates are most common in farm work to my knowledge, though, so it could be that the players' score correlates to a performance bonus that the brothers want.

[@Raccoonbutch]

okay real shit the part where he enters his name in the high score thing scared the shit out of me, because i thought it was my computer doing some shit on its own