HD M8 Oil Sumping : Fuel Moto 124 S&S 475 Cam : Man O' War Motorsprocket

[@dodge33445]

She sounds so good! I bet it feels good knowing you have went through it and not only made it your OWN, but made it so much tougher !

[@shooter-vx7xy]

I'd feel better knowing I didn't waste $30k on a bike that needed $10k of repairs right from the jump.

[@RGHD912]

@@shooter-vx7xy You’ll always need upgrades on stock bike unless you prefer stock. Ie. suspension, tires , exhaust and on and on.

[@tommiller8714]

Nice job; great choice of aftermarket parts. Well done!

[@chevyon37s]

Killer looking bike! That’s gotta be my favorite Harley OEM color! Sorry you had to deal with the M8 growing pains, but now you have an awesome bike!

[@harleysabatino8050]

U no that baby's running good in that cold weather with all u done to it she's a beast

[@freedom6919741]

Just did a case up build with Timken bearing conversion and the same crank as you have. Went with the Zippers 472 cam. Also had the Baker Grudge Box installed. Blew 3rd gear out of the stock transmission. That will probably be your next modification. Made 132hp 145 ftlbs. Was hoping for more but the bike feels awesome.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I agree. I’m afraid that will be next. But at least I know what to install if it blows.

[@williamdavis922]

The bike sounds really nice, I bet the power difference is going to be night and day!!

[@harryhowell5644]

Had to replace my oil pump 2017 ultra limited at 43k. Bit the bullet did all S&S parts with HD torque cam. Bike is smooth and runs strong. Took mine to a local shop they do alot of these kits. For the price I couldn't beat it.

[@jasoncarboni3682]

Very nice job. I have T Man Performance in North Carolina doing a full motor build on mine right now. I will also be getting the Darkhorse Crank in mine. I can't wait to get it back. I am very excited.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

That's going to be a great machine! Hope all goes smooth.

[@ACADLOU]

Bike sounds awesome. Thanks for sharing. I’ve got the identical bike.

[@walcrow7319]

My 2 cents. If you've not done it yet, get either the Horsepower Inc external breather kit OR the DK Custom Products kit. Get those cylinder gases from going back into the throttle body via those EPA rubber hoses. Your piston tops will thank you.

[@RGHD912]

Great info I have one on my bike!

[@SQUID_Road_Glide]

Thank you kindly for sharing your adventures. I know, my copious use of Navy inspired colorful metaphors in every sentence would have rendered my video attempt unintelligible. Thank you also for being a cool guy. I am currently having a modified Stage II done because although I am not as mechanically inclined, I do contend that I can build a better Fat Boy than Harley. Your experience is why a straight Stage II was inadequate for me. I added; S&S cam plate, pump, chain tensioner, lifters and tappet cuffs to my Wood 22XE with a cam bearing, and pushrods. The Stage I is from Trask Performance but I included their Check M8 and external breather. I purchased the bike October 2021 with 166 miles. I requested everything my mechanic takes off for inspection. With 1700 miles it had oil in the air cleaner, frosting on the lifters, and who knows what else I didn’t find. I will change my clutch and compensator this time next year. You may want to consider moving in that direction brother. 2020 Fat Boy 🦅 of a 🪶 🪨2-gether

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Sounds like you’re doing it right. Hope it lasts a long time for you!

[@wesleyrichards7802]

Thanks for the info. I currently ride a 20 street glide , and installed the following. S&S 464C, with pump and cam plate. Man-o-war comp., fuel dipstick. Rekluse clutch, power vision tuner But really thinking of changing the crank to a Man-o-war. Due to the run out of my current crank being at .005" boarder lining i know. Thinking of either sending the lower end to either skunkworks or Man-O-War. Both of them are great builders

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Sounds like you have a great setup, but that crank is a little close to the edge. I really like Kevin, and love his videos. If you're going to send out your case, I would recommend Darkhorse because they are a one stop shop for everything related to your case and crank. Whatever it needs they can do it, and they have done it a thousand times before. I like to think about the crank runout as an indicator to how long your engine will last. The smaller your runout, the longer and more reliable your bike will be. Even though .005" is within limits, it's still going to wear out your pump fairly quick. My goal is to go 100k+ on this bike, so I wanted max reliability within reason and my budget.

[@toddoverby5538]

@@apgapcruiser2687 I love Kevin too but I think he uses Darkhorse. Not sure.

[@georgemacconnell]

I got a 2018 and it was just a fun factor for me i did s&s 124 powerpack and my local shop A AND A cycles did an awesome job getting 135/145 out of it now, did not do as much as you did, but I love the sound and power. Like most others i just wish they came from factory that way. Next bike cause i'm a heavy guy maybe an Indian or something else, but i'm going to enjoy my road glide for now, Thanks for sharing

[@johnmacias01]

It’s awesome that Harley helped you out, I hope it wasn’t to much out of pocket for ya!

[@TheLoneWolf_andCoyote]

I appreciate your honesty in the video I was contemplating maybe buying a Roadglide special with a 114 but it looks to me that the Milwaukee 8 is even a bigger can of worms than the 03' and newer 'non timken' twin cams. I think I'll play it safe and keep my old Evolution powered bikes and keep on keeping on.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

If you compare the internals of the M8 to the twin cams, there really isn't much of a difference. There are new issues rising because of the amount of power that the new M8's can produce. It's just like if you dropped a 454 into a Toyota Corrolla. You're going to have problems. Same kind of thing is happening with these M8's. More power is producing more wear, faster, presenting more frequent issues. Can't deny the reliability of the EVO's though. Really nice engine.

[@tommymonzon5824]

ApGap Cruiser are you kidding me? 10,000 and already you have those internal marks! The HDMC should be ashamed of this. But they aren't. In the 2021 roll out, it's all about the new paint schemes.

[@shooter-vx7xy]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Except a 454 and Corolla were never meant to go together. The M8 and your Road Glide were. I'm not a huge Harley basher (I own an Ultra Limited) but it amazes me when people have to do stuff like this at 10k miles, find the things you found and then shrug and say, "Oh well!"

[@ripper-wrench]

The engine sound great. Good work Sir.

[@harleysabatino8050]

I want to go with s & s true daul mufflers on my twin cam love the looks and sounds of those pipes

[@mohawkdriver4155]

Killer build. Great vid.

[@harleydave2316]

Great parts and its done right! Awesome job.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thanks!

[@johnriley1964]

Great video. Looking forward to hearing how you like everything that you did to the motor. As I’m looking at doing similar upgrades in the future to my rgs. 👍

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thank you. I will definitely do a full review when I get some more miles on her.

[@MrBfordyoung]

That’s an awesome dealership that did that

[@Sn0wdawgz]

Nice setup. Sounds fantastic 👍

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thanks! 👍

[@toddoverby5538]

Great Video. I see all of these people putting in cam plates and pumps and they say you have to be at 5 thou or less but never tell you what you have to do if its more. Well, it's alot. Congrats on the build. Darkhorse is the best at what they do. Had my TC done there. Great people. Beautiful place you have there as well. Little O

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thank you! It’s too bad that Harley tolerances don’t keep the crank at less of a runout. Would save a lot of people a ton of money.

[@josevalencia5145]

Sweet build.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thank you!

[@timdavis8154]

Sweet Road Glide.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thank you Tim!

[@capecodbiker9902]

Very nice bike 🔥🔥🔥

[@pmaint1]

Good video. A flywheel with 6 thousandths runout is way too much and Harley should've picked up the tab for most of this work, except for the aftermarket parts of course. But that is uneceptable qc.

[@dwight072]

Liiks like a great build.

[@toneysnowwpimppn3842]

That baby is absolutely stunning. The whole snowfall and the barn made.net a fan boy. That breather is what I been looking for. What brand

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Glad you like it! It’s an S&S stealth air cleaner.

[@rickbiggers4096]

Great Video Good Job

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thanks!

[@amphibdriver1]

I would not lose any oil in my 107, 114, or when I made my 114- inch into a 128 build if I rode at a steady speed 70 mph or less but my 107, 114, and my 128 all lost oil through the intake if I ran at a steady speed of 75-85 mph. I have a Rivera oil pump and backing plate, Dark Horse Man O War engine sprocket, Rivera vented dipstick, Fuel Moto RTX two into one exhaust, Cycle Rama 483 cam, dyno-tuned Power Vision, Screaming Eagle, Ventilator Extreme air cleaner, DK Customs head breathers, and catch can, Fuel Moto 128 build with 11.2 pistons. S&S lifter, and lifter blocks, S&S adjustable push-rods, HPI 58 throttle body and HPI billet manifold. 136 Hp and 140 torque from 3,250 to 4,850.

[@lenjames]

I have a 2019 RK Special..I dread riding the bike. It only has 4200 miles and I smell burning oil. The only thing I like about the bike is the color... Twisted Cherry. I usually ride my Twin Cam bikes most days.

[@AshHol01]

Hey that was a great video. So to your crank run out. My crank when it got the bike to a reputable Harley-Davidson dealer was .10 and they won’t warranty it until it’s .12!! So I had to have everything but I was told that the Timkin bearing conversation actually weakens the case because of so much metal being machined out? Hit me up on a PM.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

That sucks. .10 is a lot! I wish HD would cover stuff like that. You do need to drill some holes to do the conversion, but I can’t imagine how it could weaken it enough to cause issues. Darkhorse Crankworks would be good people to talk to if you’re really worried about it. Harley used to have Timken bearings stock, but they changed to the current setup to save cost.

[@jamessouthworth1699]

I thought they fixed it the run out after the twin cam 88. Harley is still having these crank run-out issues?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I heard they got too many claims for runout and increased the service limit to .012". That's why they wouldn't fix mine under warranty.

[@jamessouthworth1699]

@@apgapcruiser2687 That's low down of them. It's also why they won't be seeing me at the dealership buying a new bike. I've fixed my share of issues with my bike that should have never left the factory like the tensioner shoes, cam bearings, chassis stabilizers. I'm still not happy with the fact my bike has no Timken bearings on the crank and a pressed-together crankshaft that is known to develop issues. The crank run out has been a major issue for Harley big twins at least 20 years. I can't believe they haven't fixed that by now. (My bike is a 2003) They need to change for the better and not just introduce more paint schemes and louder stereos if they want to keep people like me as a customer.

[@harleysabatino8050]

So dark horse welded flywheels and re. Pressed the cases ?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Yes sir. They blueprinted the whole bottom end.

[@-MrRichBiker1967]

Nice vid, good job. i want to hear when its hot as hell???? always sounds good cold!!!!!!!!

[@kennwoodruff]

What were the symptoms that it was showing besides the really oily throttle body that you would suspect that it was sumping?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I was feeling like the bike would run hot when it felt like it, regardless of the outside temp. I was also noticing some power loss when I worked the engine, either riding two-up, going up a steep hill or running wide open throttle. All these symptoms were pretty mild, so I questioned whether I was dreaming them up, but I knew my motorcycle well enough to know something was starting to happen.

[@jasong546]

Can you tell me what seat model that is? Really beautiful road glide, I hope you are still enjoying it!

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thank you! The seat was custom done by Mean City Cycles. They used my stock seat pan.

[@Itsme-mx5tl]

Can I ask why you chose FM over zippers, S&S or T-Man performance? Since I am shopping around for this same 124/127" kit for M8 engine.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

A lot of it was because of their customer service and I could buy almost everything I needed from one place. They always picked up the phone when I called and responded to my emails quickly. Also, the cylinders that they sell are S&S, which is the brand I wanted to go with.

[@Itsme-mx5tl]

@@apgapcruiser2687 thanks! I think I am going to go with my T-Man performance. They bore out the original liner and install a new one that's .30" longer so the piston doesn't rock at the bottom of the stroke. As long as your happy that a that counts!

[@toddoverby5538]

@@Itsme-mx5tl I did mine at TMan last year. 2001 twin cam 88 converted to a 107. Had Tman do the factory heads and jugs, also used the 590 gear drive cams. They also gave me all the recommendations for components to use with my combination which helped out a ton. I had Darkhorse do the complete bottom end with a new Man o War crank assembly. Andrew at Darkhorse is the best. The only issue I had with TMan was the stickout on the piston was a bit too much and I had to use a slightly larger gasket than the one they sent me. But it worked out. Just make sure you check it. I really wanted to and Tman felt I could do the work myself and I did but I have to say it was not as easy as I thought it would be or as easy as he seemed to think it would be for me. Spent a ton of money but it paid off with 120 HP and 124 Tq. I also really enjoyed the process. There is nothing like telling people you did it yourself. Good luck with your project man and enjoy it. Little O

[@goodboyringo9716]

Did you replace the plastic lifter stops with alum S&S ?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Yes I did. Hate to see plastic parts in an engine.

[@SQUID_Road_Glide]

Subscribed

[@derrellrodriguez6340]

What’s the Cush drive you went with?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Alloy Art from Revzilla

[@andrescott534]

Great video and very nice build. What is the fix if your cam run out if too much? I have a 2017 RGS and will be replacing the stock oil pump and cam plate with Fueling along with a new cam and cam kit. Thanks.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Awesome plan! Feuling makes some good stuff. I’m assuming you mean pinion shaft runout. There are a few ways to take care of it, but you need to fix or replace the crankshaft. Darkhorse Crankworks is pretty much the gold standard for doing this. What I ended up doing, was sending them my whole case and crankshaft. They go through and inspect everything, then fix what is needed. If the crank is too bad to fix they have replacement crankshafts as well. I would recommend doing the same thing if you have too much runout.

[@andrescott534]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Yes, thank you for the correction and I appreciate the advice. I guess we will see how much work is needed when I replace the cam and other components.

[@picamiolos1000]

Hi Apgap Cruiser great video,how do you like the air filter?Any oil going to the intake now?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I really like the looks of the air filter. The bolts and housing still allow oil to vent into the air filter, but since I have the Feuling vented dipstick I doubt much will be getting in there. I plan on putting a few thousand miles and doing an inspection again to see how it goes, but right now it's a little too soon to tell. If I find oil is still getting in there, I will change the intake or do a little modification.

[@picamiolos1000]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Thx for the info pal ride safe.

[@roncoburn7771]

Dealer made out on the Darkhorse set up

[@thakery5720]

I assume that after rebuilding the crank and bearings etc that you went to gear drive cams as well. It is shocking to see that H-D are just throwing together engines in such a shoddy way. My twin cam lasted 65k miles on the original crank with 8 thou runout measured when I first changed the camshafts. It went out to 103" from the original 96" and bigger cams (S&S585) to give a good boost. An engine builder told me that CVO heads were better and so I found a set and along with S&S 640GE cams and bored out CVO cylinders - now 113 - it makes over 130 bhp/ftlbs. I had the crank refurbished with new big end rollers on the original crankpin, trued and welded the crank and a few other upgrades. All the trouble you had with the 'new' M8 means this 61-year-old wil not be buying a 'shoddy-built' M8 - I am not going through all that again !

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I didn’t go with great drive. I thought about it for a while but decided not to. I know setting up gear lash can be finicky and if it’s not right it can be noisy. Since the chain drive is cheaper and has been fairly reliable I stayed with it. It’s sad to hear so many people having similar issues. Sorry you had the same trouble.

[@thakery5720]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Thanks for your sympathy but my runout stayed at 8 thou no matter what I did or how many miles so I was lucky. I was a little concerned about setting the lash but everything was perfect first time - no noise at all. I am using very high lift cams and heavy valve springs are needed - gear drive is better as it provides more accurate valve timing and there are no tensioners to be worried about.

[@tommymonzon5824]

How much did it cost to fix what Harley Davidson built. I have a 2014 with 46,000 miles. Not looking forward of spending thousands to correct. And I really would like to know how much money I am looking at to spend.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Depends on what you need to fix when you get in there. Darkhorse charges $800 to balance and rework your crank. A new oil pump from harley is about $150, but a camplate and pump kit from S&S is $750 so it depends on what route you want to take and what needs to be replaced. Every engine is different.

[@tommymonzon5824]

Watching this video & others with similar issues, why would I buy another HD.......... The HDMC continues with their sales decreasing & putting all the blame to the younger riders not purchasing a HD. Rally HDMC???

[@mymm6327]

Have an opportunity to get a "good deal" on an Ultra from a fam member that works for a HD dealer but man....watching these videos including Baxters I am afraid....not so much of the $ but whether any work will fix this problem....According to Kevin there are multiple possible causes and I actually can't see how will it end!

[@cornbread8246]

Why did you go with the 475 over the 465 cam?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I wanted the torque to come later in the rpm range. The 465 is very low, which is what most Harley owners like. I prefer torque that builds as the RPM climb. Just a preference thing. I do think that the 465 would have been smoother because it’s a lower lift cam.

[@Pdogsniper1]

What was the total cost of all of this?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I will be going over that in my next video.

[@fogit4668]

$35,000 for a new bike. $12,000 to fix everything that was done wrong by the factory.

[@prosedi17]

its the american way,reason they say north americans have money to spend

[@arthurmanderson4892]

#TRUTH

[@goodboyringo9716]

The people keep buying them and Harley keep building junk.

[@kevincraig8257]

@@prosedi17 that's just it most of us don't have money to blow that engine should come right from the factory no excuses the 2021 cvo roadglide sits at 48000 dollars

[@doubletap1headshot]

That’s Harley Davidson! Plus, the EPA doesn’t help! Anyone that has a Milwaukee 8, get the trask vented transmission cover kit, T-man head breathers, S&S roller rockers, S&S or fueling oil pumps and get you cranks pinned and wielded or buy a dark horse crank and your bike will be bullet proof. It’s unfortunate that we spend money for a product that we have to fix right. Stock sucks. Aaron, Nick, Jamie and Master Mike will build you a bullet proof bike. They will be building mine soon

[@timothyschmid6891]

What state are you from. Beautiful location

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Vermont. Summertime is amazing here!

[@harleysabatino8050]

U have some money rapped up in that baby better than it came off the floor almost a hundred grand later but it's a great feeling knowing it's done rite

[@125saito]

I was curious if you considered the Red Shift 468 cam before you went with the S&S 475?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I did actually. I almost purchased the 468. Both cams are very similar, but I liked the 475 sound better and since, S&S also make cam plates and oil pumps, they can be bought as a kit and save money.

[@125saito]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Understandable Thanks.

[@ihateemael]

thx for the vid. re smooth shifts what oils did they use? Mine clunks a lot.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I am using Bel-ray mineral oil, but I think it's more than just the oil that made the difference for me. I have the Hayden primary chain tensioner and Man O' War motorsprocket in there. I think they all work together to make it super smooth.

[@richardanderson4916]

How did you solve the intake problem of hot, oily residue being sucked into the air intake?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I reduced the amount, by installing the Feuling vented dipstick. I still wanted the vent to be in the air cleaner because it helps create a little vacuum and that helps seal the rings better. I’ll leave it as is unless someone comes out with a better product.

[@MacRides1]

So how much of that was covered under warranty? I'm doing s&s cam, pump añd plate next week so hopefully it's good.bc I'm at the same milage as you were. I would love to do that lower work that you did but that's a lot a coin and hoping the new pump eliminates any bad sumping that could cause a problem .

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I was pretty dissatisfied with what they covered, but at least I got something. They covered the cylinders and piston rings.

[@raydelfa1125]

How many miles were on your bike when you did this??

[@apgapcruiser2687]

About 10,000

[@keithommart4388]

I’m in the same boat motor is dumping oil out of the Breather just sad lots of stuff going on so everything from the crankshaft up and out is getting replaced almost everything is fueling I wish they where done with the 3 valve heads because I would shit can the stock heads as well I’m pretty disappointed in Harley right now after 35 years of ownership the m8 is the first motor I have had to completely rebuild my I add I only have 4,000 miles on my 2018

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I feel your pain. I’m excited to see those three valve heads. They sound cool. Hope your build goes smoothly.

[@rilesg2977]

I have an 18 limited with sumping issues, stage 2 and just stumbled across this oil pump issue for m8 years 17-19. At what point would one suggest getting a new cam plate when upgrading the oil pump?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I’m sorry to hear you have the same problem. If it was me, I would always replace the cam plate with the oil pump. Keep in mind there could be other reasons your engine is sumping. Make sure to check your crank runout while you’re in there. If your runout is too much, you will just destroy the new parts you put in. A compression test is also an easy test that can tell you a lot.

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

Do you still use the Hayden Tensioner? I want one for my bike but cant find any M8 reviews

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Yeah, there isn’t much info out there about this tensioner. I had it recommended to me by Baker transmissions and another mechanic in Maine. It seems to work well. It’s nice to not have to open up the primary to adjust it all the time.

[@dodge33445]

What horsepower after your build?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

128 HP

[@dry509]

What year bike? Is it fixed in new bikes?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

2019. The crankshaft was within spec according to Harley Davidson, which is outrageous. They say .012 is the allowed limit for runout. Ask any engine shop and they will tell you that’s way too much. Harley hasn’t changed their limits so this could keep happening even with the new bikes.

[@robert30_mav62]

Great video, thanks for sharing. I'm in the middle of my 2018 M8 FM 124" build as well. Being January, I'm not in a super hurry. Just curious if you had to de-carbon the heads. Mine has 15,000 miles and the piston tops and heads * pistons had probly .020" buildup. Disgusting that Harley wouldn't offer a better solution (burning the oil mist) when you pay so much $$. Do you think the combo of the S&S OP and plate w/ the dip stick will solve the sumping. I drained 14oz from my sump yesterday. thx, Bob ps; lucky my pinion only has 0.0035" run-out.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

That’s cool! You’re going to love it. I did not have a lot of buildup on my pistons and heads. My engine was running lean and I only run non-ethanol fuel so that may have kept the buildup to a minimum. The 18’s had the less capable pumps so I’m sure it will improve a lot with the new S&S pieces. I wouldn’t run a big build without the Feuling dipstick. You should eliminate most, if not all sumping with that setup.

[@glencross4461]

Robert you still have to reroute head bolt breathers out of intake or you will still be sucking oil into the engine check DK Customs or Horsepower Incorporated!

[@tintshopnc5552]

what year is this bike? also is this mostly addressed in later models?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

2019. They have come out with a higher capacity oil pump, but they haven’t fixed their tolerances on the crankshaft and other components.

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

Wow... so you took pre-emptive action and found these issues at 10k miles! I have 13K miles on my M8 and have my fingers crossed that I don't need a *Darkhorse* build sooner than later. I am not a wrench, and am learning mostly from watching Kevin Baxter's videos. This 2019 FLHR is my first bike.... bought it 6 months ago with 170 miles on it. Now, out of warranty. _Fingers crossed._

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed to see what I saw. But, I noticed some power loss and excessive heat intermittently. I would recommend keeping an eye on your fluid levels and just pay attention to what the engine sounds and feels like. There’s a good chance you’ll hear something before the engine ever fails. You might be totally fine.

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Bought an IR heat gun to keep a check on the cylinder head temps. I must say that HD dissapoints me tremendously with all of the corners they have cut with the M8. I only know this from watching Kevin's videos. I shudder every time I think of the crank shaft bearing seated in aluminum! How much does it cost to rebuild an M8 properly?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

It really depends on how far you want to go. Darkhorse charges about $900 to correct an out of spec crankshaft. Timken bearings were $500. If you want a new cam, or big bore kit obviously that costs more. Labor will be the worst part if you’re having a shop do it.

[@dry509]

What is the original cause of your problem?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

The original cause was the crankshaft having too much runout.

[@kadimsilahtar]

Thank you for sharing this useful info. Bike sounds amazing. My questions are; have you noticed oil mist in the breather before or even after the vented dipstick? Were you runing the bike hard mostly 2 up, why do you think the crankshaft wear was more than the tolerance even at 10k miles? How the engine vibration is affected after the counter balance removal? I have the whole cam plate and oil pump set up with CR480 cam replaxement ready with a powervision PV2 tuner for my 17 ultra with just 4k miles on, therefore am concerned about the crankshaft wear. TIA.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

It's not so much crankshaft wear that you need to be worried about, it's whether it was manufactured well enough. Once a crankshaft is made it usually doesn't change much, especially within 4k miles. I recommend pulling your cam plate and measuring your pinion shaft runout. That is a good indicator on how the crankshaft is doing as a whole. If you see more than .005" I would have it fixed. Less than .003" is usually recommended on performance builds. I don't have enough miles on my build to really get a sense of how the breather and new intake is doing. I will be watching that next summer when I get the bike out again for sure. I live in a very mountainous area so I was working the engine often, but my wife and I are both under 150lbs so not a lot of weight on the bike. I ride probably 75% of the time by myself. I noticed the counterbalancer difference at idle, but once the RPM increased I didn't notice a difference. That being said, the bike is a completely different animal now, I'm still getting used to it. Once I get a few more miles, I will do another video on how the modifications changed my ride.

[@kadimsilahtar]

@@apgapcruiser2687 thank you sir once again, enjoy the beast's company 👍

[@apgapcruiser2687]

It's my understanding that the case is vented through the heads which then dumps into your intake. So, if you vent the case, you relieve a lot of excess pressure.

[@jerrymayberry9488]

What year is your bike

[@apgapcruiser2687]

2019

[@emeraldcitycarpenter]

Is the bike tuned❓Which tuner❓

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I had the bike professionally tuned by an experienced shop using a TTS Mastertune.

[@emeraldcitycarpenter]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Perfect!

[@freedom6919741]

@@apgapcruiser2687 what kind of power did it make ?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I will be showing the dyno sheet in my upcoming videos, but peak numbers were 128.5 hp at 5282 r.p.m. and 143.81 tq at 3442 r.p.m.

[@jspeerpls]

How much did thebottim end cost

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Depends on how far you want to go. Just to correct the crank it’s around $800. Timken bearing conversion is $500. Rods or other work is extra depending on which parts you want.

[@donschlegel1972]

Great Thanks what year is your bike ?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

2019

[@kennyhall2444]

What windshield r u running very nice build

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thank you! It is a Freedom Shields. They are thicker than most and I really like it. It doesn’t vibrate and shake like other more flimsy ones.

[@kennyhall2444]

Thanks what is the height

[@apgapcruiser2687]

12" Sport Touring

[@harleysabatino8050]

My compsator went bad on my 14 ultra at 6 thousand miles where I live in St Petersburg Florida is so massively overpopulated that I was unable to get the bike past second gear in town and they said that was the cause of that bike compensating sprocket going bad on me these bikes are made to run not chugg

[@johnliotta2583]

Why so much runout?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Just came that way from the factory. The way the machines must have made it.

[@YoursInYeshua]

Awesome video man! Very helpful tips that most don't know about. Do the Grand Nationals cause any droning and do they cause throttle body butterfly valve clap/chatter at all? Just liked and subbed :)

[@apgapcruiser2687]

Thank you! Sound is so hard to explain. I feel like the exhaust is very deep. You almost feel it, more than you hear it. I think even the stock exhaust can drone on if you ride long enough, so it's a little hard to answer your question. Personally I like the deeper sound and lower pitch to the exhaust because I feel it's less tiresome to the ear. I haven't done any long rides with it yet though, because I got the bike back right before snow and salt landed on the roads. In the spring I will get some footage on the motorcycle so you can hear a little better what it sounds like. As far as clatter, I haven't heard any yet but I will be listening for it when I ride some more.

[@YoursInYeshua]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Awesome thank you!

[@BobBob-fp5fn]

How much did all the darkhorse work cost? Thinking about doing all or some of the same things you did on the bottom end.

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I would recommend calling them for the most up to date pricing. They told me to balance and fix the crank would be about $800. Timken bearing upgrade is about $500. And of course if you want better cylinder studs, or connecting rods it will cost more. Depends on how far you want to go.

[@BobBob-fp5fn]

@@apgapcruiser2687 Thanks for the reply, Ill be sure to call them.

[@freedom6919741]

@@BobBob-fp5fn mine was 2600 dollars for complete Darkhorse bottom end with the best rods and Timken bearing conversion.

[@tdog8507]

Thats alot of runout from the factory

[@RGHD912]

Hp/torque #

[@apgapcruiser2687]

128 HP and 143tq

[@RGHD912]

@@apgapcruiser2687 124 is a great choice, nice numbers. 💪🏽

[@brettfavre1875]

There good people at dark horse or hoban brothers whatever u want 2 call them... there my neighbor they stand behind all there work

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I agree! They always answered the phone and really seem to know what they are doing. I am very happy with what they did for me.

[@prosedi17]

the way harley should build,but then they can,t make money on upgrades

[@pmaint1]

But Harley didn't make any money on these upgrades S&S and other aftermarket companies did.

[@dondigiulio7338]

How much

[@apgapcruiser2687]

It's really hard to give out a number for my setup because: (1. Some work was covered under warranty) (2.I decided to install additional parts that aren't always necessary when doing a build like this) (3. I bought the parts over time, so figuring out the total in the end is a pain in the but). But for reference, Darkhorse usually charges around $800 to balance and correct a crankshaft and $500 for a Timken bearing upgrade.

[@omarcaban9917]

Disappointing REALLY !! HARLEY SHOULD OF JUST GIVES US BETTER QUALITY ALREADY

[@harleysabatino8050]

Funny how God works had that bearing wouldn't have broke you would have never seen them other issues before they're warranty ran out

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I am sure glad I found the other issues. Worked out in the end.

[@ccollins9981]

The amount of money you have to spend to stop an M8 from sumping.... something it shouldn't be doing from the factory....is fucking ridiculous. I'm on my fourth twin cam and their definitely will be a fifth.

[@BFG100K]

It’s just a disgrace that H-D only makes poor quality. I have a 48 my self. Not even the wheels were properly balanced when I picked it up. Front wheel bearings were binding due to incorrect mounting. Rod bearings knock from the factory. Brake light wire touched the drive belt and cut the isolation. These bikes might as well be made in China. At least you would expect them to be as crappy as they are.

[@clayfacundus482]

A damn shame to have to go through all that to have 35K bike to be right............ paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssss

[@roncoburn7771]

if you tour i would leave the balancer in you want weight the lighter you make the bottom end is no good for a harley the balancer takes away 1 hp thats it

[@jimyounger9490]

How can anyone from Harley feel good about their product ?? These bikes are pushing 30k , and ya have to rebuild the engine. Not an isolated incident by no means either !! Someone has to do the crank , someone else has to do the oil pump , cylinders need warranty after 10k miles. Basically to make an M8 run right , you need to completely rebuild the motor with aftermarket products and companies with better products than Harley. Oh boy , where can I get one !!

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I couldn’t agree with you more. I don’t understand how they can make a product like this and still have a following.

[@pmaint1]

I guess I'll have to give Indian a serious look. I'm not dealing with this crap.

[@donaldmiller4366]

HD M8 is junk. $5K to fix HD's crappy quality control. Only in America!!

[@Sn0wdawgz]

Lol, okay

[@prosedi17]

since 2003 when they removed the timkin

[@Heavy69Metal]

What was the cost with darkhorse ect and timken and all

[@apgapcruiser2687]

The crank work was around $800 and the timken conversion was $500.

[@Heavy69Metal]

I have a 2018 Road Glide Special M8 107. I’m thinking of going to a 128 131 or 143. Question is. Will I have to buy a whole new crank/fly wheel or just different rods?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

If you want to change the stroke, you will have to change the crank. Different length rods won't change the stroke, they will just change where the piston rides in the cylinder. Depending on your kit, you might have to bore the case out as well. That's a big reason I went with the 124, because it required the least amount of modification to the bottom end.

[@RGHD912]

Go 124” can get 150/150 and with shorter stroke it will run great. Just my .02 safer build as well without splitting your cases

[@Heavy69Metal]

Where do you get the part for the rear wheel at and is there one for the front as well?

[@apgapcruiser2687]

I found mine on Revzilla. There’s no need for one in the front, just the rear.