Perfect Dolby Atmos and Subwoofer Balance Using REW Averages!

[@christiandickey]

This method has proven to myself that this is far superior to the old 90 degree method.... Night and day difference 💯 👍 thank you so much for your efforts brother 👍

[@hdmoviesource]

I'm glad it helped. I now only use 90 degrees when calibrating a subwoofer. But, for speakers, 0 degrees sounds good.

[@marcharshaw8184]

I have been into home theater now for 25 years, and since Atmos has been here, I’ve only heard 2 people say what you are saying about channel balance, or hard averages. You and another youtuber. You are a little easier to understand. Great job, I am now a subscriber !!! Thank you Sir !

[@hdmoviesource]

Thank you Marc, I appreciate it. Who's the other KZbinr?

[@marcharshaw8184]

OCA, He's really good, But really deep ! I just received the Spears and Muncil disc., so I can do averaging in RTA, but I would like to know your exact setting in REW, because I like that video so much. Do you have a primer of sorts, that I could use to get similar results ? ( I mean I want my computer screen to look the same) And do I need to have the Harman Target curve loaded in REW ? This is the first time I've ever reached out to anyone on this topic.

[@hdmoviesource]

If you want, you can download my saved preferences for REW. You click on preferences and load my file. This will get everything to load, like my REW. drive.google.com/file/d/1pZLVySGTQwdYwsVbss5stvkg6c108MSh/view?usp=sharing

[@marcharshaw8184]

You sir, are definitely my new best friend. You have inspired me to want to share my home theater journey. Thanks again for sharing your insight.

[@marcharshaw8184]

I figured out how to use the Audyssey One app, but I can't figure out how to get your file loaded in REW preferences. Could I still use this with Audyssey One ? Thanks Do I have to change the file format ?? @@hdmoviesource

[@joentell]

I agree that pointing the mic and using the 0° calibration is a superior method. Another thing you may want to experiment with is using sweeps for level matching. You can use the sweeps from SACT. From there, I've found that changing the levels to match 2 octaves centered at 2kHz for main speakers gives me the best perceptual balance. The reason for 2kHz is its the specific frequency we can best localize due to the width between our ears. I've tried 1kHz and it wasn't as good. You can find the difference by aligning the measurements in REW and seeing how much gain you have to add or remove to get them to align. The next step above this method which I found gives even better results is a binaural level match where the mic is placed on the side of the head and the speakers on the left are measured with the mic placed on the left of the head. Same method for the right. Center is tricky, but pick the ear thats closest. My finding is we use the loudest signal going to the ear closest to the source to determine the overall volume. The boundary effect and shadowing of the head on the mic affect the levels a surprising amount.

[@TheReverendSlim]

I toyed with a quickie version of the binaural level match over the weekend where I did three positions in MultEQ-X (Center, left ear, right ear) then used the detected levels for the speakers on each side (i.e. left side speakers from the left ear position and vice versa) with the center channel level manually averaged between left and right ear. It gave very good results using precise trims. Of course, that's for people just using MultEQ-X's measurements and not doing more advanced EQ, but the point is that I think there's definitely merit to biasing the levels that way rather than from a central mic position. I did this in combination with my delay biasing method and got great results from it!

[@hdmoviesource]

Interesting Joe. I might try the 2Khz. Interestingly enough, I've been using full-range pink noise on SACT, and I think it might be better than limited pink noise. Do you know of any binaural mics that you can connect and use with REW?

[@hdmoviesource]

Interesting, Slim. What do you use for binaural measurements, and does it work with REW?

[@TheReverendSlim]

@@hdmoviesource I just marked where my ears are on the seat back with masking tape and then put the mic at each position.

[@hdmoviesource]

Yes, for me, it's 20 inches. What I do now is measure the mic height for every speaker pair and make sure, even with the angle pointed to the speaker, that they are 20 inches from the seat in height.

[@danmaier2077]

Thank you Carl, as always great video! Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹 ❤

[@hdmoviesource]

My pleasure! Thank you Dan I appreciate it all the comments.

[@cheekster777]

Thank you Carl.

[@hdmoviesource]

Thank you, Cheekster, as always. Much appreciated!

[@cheekster777]

@@hdmoviesource 👊🏻

[@hdmoviesource]

👍

[@mikeortiz2139]

Excellent video. I wonder if it's possible to get precise trims altering the filter levels to make them line up with the Harman Curve at 75 db. I really appreciate the great detail in these videos. Thank you!

[@hdmoviesource]

That's actually a great idea. I might try that. I can use the Harmon Curve as my reference. I might try that.

[@mikeortiz2139]

@@hdmoviesource Glad you think so.

[@hdmoviesource]

It won't actually change anything, but I could use it as a reference, that's for sure Mike.

[@pb24dagrk]

Hi Carl, great video. Can you clarify the point you made about the clipping and the -10 vs -8 vs Reference. I wasn't quite clear if you were referring to the SW trims within the AVR or with your master volume MV. How loud (MV) do you typically listen when you want to enjoy? I heard that Tenet has intentional clipping within the soundmix (part of Nolan's preference to make it sound harsh and impactful).

[@hdmoviesource]

You got it, pb24. So, when listening to Tenet and -8 on a Denon receiver's main volume, it will clip. Now this clips with a single subout, I'm not sure if it clips when using two subouts. But remember, it's an analog RCA out, so it can only go to 2 volts before clipping. This is why I want to upgrade to the flagship Denon receiver because they have XLR outs that can go to 4 volts, hopefully. But, I don't know if it's true XLR output, so I'll have to see. I've heard that to get to true reference volume, you need to lower the subchannel by -7.5 dB. But, as I said, I just use -10 dB for enough overhead. I replayed Tenet, and it sounds perfect at -6 db on the receiver, no clipping. Perfectly smooth. If you want to listen at high volumes on a Denon I strongly believe you should lower the sub volume by on the Denon by at least 7.5db, and then put the volume back in the subwoofer. It sounds so much better.

[@pb24dagrk]

@hdmoviesource OK great, thanks. That makes perfect sense. I have a Denon A110 avr (anniversary version but it's essentially an 8500HA). I watched all your videos but this was something I never quite knew how to gauge balancing output signal vs maximizing sub amp gains. I don't think I listen loud enough anyways, I'm more on the -15 MV range. My sw trim I'm avr was at -5 and my PB4000 volume was -10. Per what you said, I decreased my AVR to -10 and increased my subwoofer to -5 instead. Thanks again.

[@hdmoviesource]

Nice, that way you know you'll never clip now. Tenet now sounds perfect. Did you remeasure your subs, might just wanna check the levels.

[@chebrubin]

But all Atmos in ceiling speakers are concerntric for the most part right? Like the tweeter is mounted or hanged in the epicenter of the woofer? Isn't Techno no Dad doing this near field broomstick microphone capture near the speaker REW collection process? Is that very different than the UMIK microphone fixed in the sweet spot chair?

[@hdmoviesource]

Yeah, that's different, They're using a new app that's in beta right now, that can measure nearfield and MLP to give you an idea of the response of the room.

[@cafiveohsrockbandremix9254]

Hi Carl, great video! Just out of curiosity, what volume level did you have your receiver when playing these test tones? I'm guessing maybe around -25.0 dB bsed on the returned SPLs from pink noise. I suppose it doesn't matter a whole lot while using this method though.

[@hdmoviesource]

For this demo, I purposely did it low. It may have been -18. However, when I measure for real, I make sure my receiver is set to -0 dB if I'm using the Spears and Munsil 4K disc. Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit has higher levels; I think it's +8 dB or +10 dB louder. Generally speaking, just take a quick SPL measure to see if you're in the ballpark for 75 dB, then it doesn't really matter what you use.

[@gavinwright1256]

Hi Carl. I have just finished installing my first home theatre setup but was not happy with the AVR's Audyssey calibration which led me to your videos. I have just purchased a UMIK-1 and Audysseu MultEQ-x license and was wondering if there was another way to play the pink noise as i dont have a blueray player or should i wait to invest in one to do the level calibrations? Thanks from Australia.

[@hdmoviesource]

REW can play pink noise, but you're limited to 8 channels. You could calibrate the Atmos channels on an uncalibrated channel first, and then port those calibrations to the correct channels.

[@cush86-thfc]

I have some upfiring atmos speakers. How would you balance for those? As I’m assuming pointing at the speaker wouldn’t work. I also can’t remove the grill on my surrounds so I can’t actually see where the tweeter but could take an educated guess

[@hdmoviesource]

Hmm, I'm not 100% sure. But, I would think using a 90-degree file and pointing the mic straight up would be the best idea. In MultEQ-X they have a target curve for up-firing speakers. So, I'd calibrate to your target curve first, then apply the up-firing fix in Audyssey.

[@cafiveohsrockbandremix9254]

I’m kind of confused about this with setting subwoofer levels since the LFE channel has +10 dB already added into it. On the spears & munsil disc, is the sub pink noise recorded at 40 dbfs and the speakers 30 dbfs?

[@hdmoviesource]

Yes, they do this so you measure 75 db from the subs and the mains.

[@jothefrenchcanadian]

I was trying to do this with rew , but my rta average result is 20 to 25db lower than the actual reading in the top right of the screen , do you have an idea what would cause that ? i try on 2 different computer using umik1 and rew v5.30 .

[@hdmoviesource]

Click the RTA options, then click appearance. Make sure Adjust RTA Levels is checked Jo.

[@AsadAbbasi00]

How would you do this for line array speakers which have 2 or more tweeters? Point to the center of the tweeters?

[@hdmoviesource]

I would point them all to the tweeter.

[@cush86-thfc]

Do you also EQ at 0 degree or just for trim levels?

[@hdmoviesource]

I've been going back and forth with 0 degrees, and 90 to be honest. I think on depends the use case.

[@matthews5669]

Does AVR volume matter at all for this test? Probably not as long as you use the same volume for each speaker right?

[@hdmoviesource]

I would quickly set the first speaker to 75db and then never change the volume. As long as the volume is the same for each speaker, that is the most important thing.