He Was Waitlisted with a 3.98 Science GPA and 510 MCAT | Application Renovation (S3 E5)

Let's review the application of a premed student with a great GPA (3.89 cGPA, 3.98 sGPA) and a solid MCAT score (510) who's been waitlisted after his interviews. What could he have done better with his application? And what can YOU learn from it?
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Our student this week has he gotten some med school interviews but hasn't been accepted at the time of this recording. He thinks the problems with his application may have been timing and not knowing how to convey his story.
We cover points like:
• What should you list as the hours for honors, awards, and recognitions on your med school application?
• Why he described some of his activities in a list format, and why I don't recommend it.
• What he specifically could've done to show more impact in his ECs.
• The points of negativity in his application that I definitely would have removed.
• When it makes sense to list your activities as medical/clinical, and when you shouldn't.
• Why a lot of his activity descriptions just aren't memorable.
• What he did wrong in the opening of his personal statement.
• Why I don't recommend writing much about the specialty you want to pursue in your personal statement.
• The massive mistake he made with his school list.
Watch more episodes of Application Renovation: applicationreno....

[@janem8331]

update: he got in!

[@farisalnahhas363]

REALLY! I'm so happy for him!!! He definitely deserves it!!!

[@matthewlee4834]

How do you know??

[@Bash2026]

Hopefully he’s not too put down by the harsh criticism, Dr. Gray’s intentions are the best. Props to him for putting his application out there.

[@Pete-da-peter]

If this guy met with a good advisor to review his application before submit it. He would have been a medical student right now

[@matthewlee4834]

100% agreed

[@Pete-da-peter]

@@matthewlee4834 a certain mistake he made. Even me who will apply to med school next year wouldn't make them

[@matthewlee4834]

​@@Pete-da-peter how did that work out for you? Did you ever get in?

[@ijusmix2585]

@@Pete-da-peterare you a med student now?

[@nicholashaynes3483]

As a premed myself, I can say that it seriously hurts when someone questions if you really want to be a doc. Dr. Gray really put this student through the ringer but I’m sure he’ll be very successful in future application cycles.

[@abtahitishad9454]

He seems like a really nice guy. Hope he finds luck this cycle or at least next cycle.

[@willthomas99]

This is crazy, a fellow Long Beach Health Scholar. My application is looking super similar so I appreciate this guy going on KZbin with his

[@yothamlazmy7754]

GO BRANDOOONNNNNNNNNNN!!! HOPEFULLY YOU GET IN SOON!! #CSULB #REPRESENT

[@adamalbright2020]

I think he focuses on the negativity bc his personal problems and depression led him to want to be a doctor. So it was a big deal to him, not just what he thought would look good

[@GlorWolf]

He has so much on his application!!! I barely have a third of those entries.. I'll never get in

[@EakEmk]

That is not true and he did not get in either.

[@Limitedonathios]

My friend has no publications, yet got into a T20 MD/PhD program where all of their peers had 3+ pubs. They had only 1 resesrch experience. They were nor disadvantaged in anyway. She got an interview and the school was impressed with the knowledge she had from this 1 project and how deeply she had researched to justify each step in her independent project. She came from a top teir undergrad (not a name that most would recognize), but at the same time most everyone came from mid-top tier undergrads, so that wasnt something special. My point is, comparison aint it bud

[@kimw12394]

@@Limitedonathios what project did she research ???

[@lilrabbitcuz]

One medical school that rejected me told me they had 16k applications this year. Just straight up, Everyone isn’t getting in.

[@berkeleygolfer]

I reached out to one of the DO schools i applied to last June. Apparently, they received 12k completed applications this year (which is around 35% more than they usually do). Also, I know one of the Adcom members at the school and they said over 1500 applications -- including many highly qualified applicants -- simply fell through the crack and were never screened, and their class is already full and are simply now interviewing these highly qualified people that fell through the crack for a spot on the waitlist. This Adcom friend of mine told me their school simply was not ready to handle such a large volume of apps this year, and that this same problem has been occurring at other schools as well.

[@janem8331]

he ended up getting in :)

[@adamalbright2020]

@@janem8331 how do you know

[@nc9036]

PLEASE don’t underestimate what’s just at the end about applying to OOS public schools. This guy could’ve doubled his interviews with a better school list, there’s great data out there on which schools are OOS friendly and which are not, don’t blindly follow GPA/MCAT averages! Props to this guy for putting himself out there, there’s definitely a lot for him to learn and us to learn from him. On top of the primary app, I think he likely continued his “negative to positive” vibe in interviews, which would’ve been a red flag. Best of luck to him in the future.

[@Russianboyz95]

what do you mean by "negative to positive?"

[@nc9036]

@@Russianboyz95 the applicant mentions how he talks about how difficult or mundane (e.g. babysitting) clinical work can be, thinking he can come back and say wow I learned from these seemingly negative experiences, but it doesnt land. Better off just mentioning the positives of his experiences

[@matttiemann5454]

Just bought your books! Amazing so far!

[@Maddawg31415]

Glorified babysitting?? Oh Lord! I admit I would say that about a lot of things I did as an EMT and medic. But if Med school adcoms heard me say that, they’d have a freaking coronary! I’d save the descriptions of glorified babysitting for those evenings of storytelling at the bar and not in my Med school app. Then again, I’d be down to get a beer and share glorified babysitting stories!

[@matthewlee4834]

Given that he used quotation marks, I assume he meant that his friends were telling him that the volunteer work was like glorified babysitting. I don't think he himself was trying to say that

[@IMChessMD]

Dr. Gray, at around 17:55, you mention that he should have explained the connection of the activity to being a physician-“why?”. Is this something we should be doing often, because this seemed like an exception.

[@morenakoorie5621]

I think it’s more he was saying the experience reaffirmed his decision to be a doctor but didn’t explain why. So since he made the statement he should have explained it - not so much that he needs to include that connection.

[@burnt.norton]

currently a sophomore in highschool (i know.. gross). ultimately, i want to pursue medicine. i’m aware that i’m supposed to ‘take everything one step at a time,’ but i just can’t stop stressing about what my mcat scores will look like, and how i’ll get into med school..

[@jdlafa]

You have so many years. If you want to work on volunteering hours you can all through highschool, as well as Summers during college. You won't even be ready to sit for the MCAT untill you pretty much have all of your prerequisites. My advice? Take a non-stem degree. Choose your electives to be the science prerequisites. Get a good GPA in your major. Get an okay/above average GPA on your science GPA. Take a gap year to work as a scribe, or as a lab technician (you might get some bs night shift). It doesn't need to be step by step, but it needs to be relevant. The more important aspect of applications is relating your experiences to why you're a strong candidate.

[@Alex__Size]

Oh lord it's way too early to be worrying about MCAT. Right now, I'd focus on getting good grades and a good SAT so that you can go to a school that will give you good opportunities to succeed. Really, med schools don't care what kind of volunteering you do in high school. All your app building will be in college, so get involved early on when you're a freshman!

[@trevordavis3257]

My suggestion for you is to not watch videos like this that early. I do not mean it in a negative way because I love Dr. Gray's content and he's a great guy. There is no need to stress this early for you. I am applying this June. You have plenty of time. Enjoy your youth. Literally, take it a step at a time. Begin networking. Find physicians in your area. Look for clinical job experiences at your local hospitals/clinics. Focus on doing well in your ACT/SAT to get into a good school, or even the school you absolutely love. But for right now in our current state, enjoy high school. Spend time with friends. Join clubs. Do sports. Excercise. Do not wish your youth away. It felt like yesterday I was just starting high school and now I'm about to take the MCAT and apply to medical school. It's crazy. Again I can't stress it enough, Samuel. Enjoy your time while you have it. No need to stress about the MCAT. You're in high school. You'll be good and good luck on your journey bud. Thanks

[@tarashay5437]

You can apply to b/md programs or early assurance programs if you want so you don’t have to take the mcat

[@sophiepellerin5517]

Another thing that makes it look like he wants to fill out space is that instead of grouping all Honours/Awards/Recogntions and all Presentations together, he used multiple entries for each. Also, he really needs more clinical experience.

[@rizauddin2698]

I thought his hours were enough (if they were true). Lol I’m kinda concern Bc I’m only at 200 and I wanted to apply next June

[@You-dh1du]

@@rizauddin2698 That's enough. It's how you communicate those experiences that will matter most.

[@--076]

Screw that. Pretty much you have to tell them what they want to hear and not really show who you are. BS.

[@shizz3907]

Lol for a lot of people who want to be doctors, who they are are not who I’d want as my doctor. A presumptuous, socially awkward, narrow-minded person shouldn’t be a doc, and this guy came off like that in his app while he was just trying to be honest

[@rizauddin2698]

Is 500 clinical hours not enough?

[@alexiscortez7458]

I thought that was enough 🤕

[@Russianboyz95]

It definitely checks the proverbial box, but quality>quantity

[@BD-uo9po]

I think it was less not having enough hours, more that he did not make an impression out of it and potentially even hurt his application.

[@alrightuwin1398]

His name is blocked out so we can call him Rock Lee cuz of them eyebrows

[@macmackay2179]

is there a way a student can get an empty copy of this medical application form? (with the intent of trying to start writing early / get a sense of what it is etc)

[@kuse166]

Mcatbros

[@macmackay2179]

@@kuse166 thank you very much

[@claireworld_]

I think another part is that he is asian and unfortunately there are really high standards for them :/. It is sad because he seems really hard working. I’m sure he will get in!

[@catcho4868]

I definitely agree that it can be particularly hard when they compare individuals in the in the same race groups

[@matthewlee4834]

@C B Don't dismiss the hardships that Asian Americans have to go through. Just because there are Asians that get accepted into medical school doesn't mean schools treat them fairly. If you think we should "stick to reality," then all you need to do is simply look up the demographics of the applicants vs matriculants for med schools and look at their stats. This isn't something that should be a debate

[@xfga4531]

@@matthewlee4834 Newsflash... medical school is competitive. No matter your race.

[@Maddawg31415]

Probably plays a small role, but given what Dr. Gray pointed out, there’s plenty he could do to get in. Heck, interview season is wrapping up, but he still has a chance to get in between now and April

[@mc-kb9hj]

@C B Kindly speaking, data shows it's not as high as the 47% of hispanic/latino/spanish origin individuals who get in nor as high as the 45% of white people who get in. Once you obtain or until you obtain a 513.8 in combination with a 3.77 which is the stats that an average Asian matriculant has, then you can go ahead and say in reality, "it's not as hard or not harder" (: in comparison to 506.6 + 3.62 for different races or 503.8 + 3.54 for other races or 505.7+ 3.53 for another race. The stats-based data speaks for itself. Let's not ignore the fact that in Dr. Gray's own "Mission - Accepted Playlist," he interviews 5 URM who have had amazing cycles + 2 white people. I think that also speaks for itself. Again, I love affirmative action for the impact that it has for underserved communities and for the movement towards health equity but is it a coincidence that during this application cycle, of everyone I know who works at Stanford and has worked on COVID-19 studies and or COVID-19 vaccine trials (including myself)---there is only one individual who has gotten into a T20 school and she's URM with similar stats and almost exact same jobs to the rest of us who are ORM by race? We're so proud of her but also here to tell it as it is. And let's not discount the fact that as an ORM, low SES, with a parent who died from cancer, I still have less of a chance than some individuals do with similar stats. All the love to this video and to you @C B but let's just be honest here. Interestingly enough, affirmative action is primarily translatable to race for medical schools, as there is a standing requirement to report the diversity in terms of race. There is no existing reporting requirement in regards to diversity in SES for medical schools. People who are low SES, but check no other sort of "diversity" criteria that can be seen as a positive benefit to the school's reporting criteria, are going to have it hard if we also happen to be ORM. I mean, let's be real, a lot of low SES people aren't out here riding horses. I would read this paper: ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.90.8.1197ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.90.8.1197 And in relation to the movement in race and social justice and equity, Asian Americans + especially Asian Americans in medicine have been speaking loud and clear in support of BLM and speaking out against the racial discrimination that infiltrates our society. We do care. We just wish that those in the Asian American community who endure similar issues as a minority that exists as 5.6% of the United States population, that we are also seen and brought into the conversation with these systemic societal issues of different forms of violence and different forms of discrimination.

[@medicalmastery3554]

When did he submit, I’m submitting in July 😳

[@nikimohammadzadeh9409]

he submitted july 13

[@anniegibson8233]

My postbacc advisor suggested I enroll in Math 100/117(Pre-Calc) at a community college instead of 4-year university. Will medical schools frown upon those credits completed at community college?

[@starsnavigate]

No it won’t matter :)

[@devinwynn1299]

No issues with demographics. Yeah there is, he's Asian and White.