¢heap 420H¢ vs $uper$teel MagnaCut?! 33 cents on a buck? Benchmade Dacian vs. Gerber Strongarm Camp!

[@CuttingBoardRx]

I actually think Gerber has a hit here: modular sheath system, decent blade geometry, 15° edge, and solid ergonomics. Feel free to disagree, ask questions, and share your thoughts!

[@richardhenry1969]

@@CuttingBoardRx I believe at $50-65 it would be a great knife at $90 420hc to many much better knives. Especially Spanish makers. As far as sheaths go I like it. I've learned how to make my own kydex so sheaths are as important as they used to be. Especially because I'm lefthanded very few knife companies seem to care.

[@bigglock5478]

I carried the original Gerber strongarm through almost my full 4 year enlistment as an infantryman in the USMC. Never let me down. This new camp version certainly looks interesting, albeit for different purposes

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@bigglock5478 Appreciate your service! Did you carry it on the plate carrier, pack or on the extension in the back?

[@igorchernetsky239]

Great content as always! I’ve noticed that Magnacut is not in list of your favorites steels,maybe I’m wrong… In one of your previous videos you’ve mentioned that your favorite steel was s45vn.Could you explain why and do you have an opinion on Bark River Classic Drop Point Hunter knife in s45vn?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Thank you so much for the contribution! I did not answer your question yet because it will be featured in my video soon!

[@michaelwaldeck7081]

Good to see someone doing a review and knows their stuff.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@michaelwaldeck7081 Glad you liked it! Thanks for subscribing!

[@KawikaLee408]

i thinned out my strongarm and put a convex edge on it. i filed down the guards and end of the handle to make it much more ergonomic for camping and wood processing tasks. i wasnt thrilled with it before and now i love it. one of my best featherstickers and i can food prep with it pretty well. glad i picked it up when it was cheaper. this camp version looks cool but i like mine better.

[@richardhenry1969]

I'd really like to see magnacut compared to 14c28n. I personally believe 14c28n is a better choice for a outdoor hard use blade.

[@boostfrog]

I think as an all around EDC folder steel, Magnacut is the way to go. But I 100% agree, for outdoor hard use 14c28n is as close to perfect as it gets. A bit more edge retention would be nice, but its easy enough to sharpen in the field that its worth the tradeoff.

[@Aaron-pb5xy]

You never know the heat treatment when it comes from China.

[@richardhenry1969]

@@Aaron-pb5xy don't know it from America either. The big difference being is American blades cost almost twice as much. Most American companies have been caught with bad heat treatment or less the optimal. Benchmade m4,3v,magncut, CRK he claimed he left his s35vn 58 because it was easier to sharpen. The one company always known for good heat treatment is spyderco. I don't understand why at their price they can't Rockwell a knife. Puma always came with a Rockwell inspection. When a company says 58-60 how do you know you don't have a blade 57? Big difference between 58 and 60 in most steels. 3 points is a lot.

[@MrCaissed]

@@richardhenry1969 that steel and 12 cr are what razor blades are made from! I recut the bevels on a lot of my knives and what a difference and they hold a sharp edge longer…

[@MrCaissed]

@@richardhenry1969 usually some companies put 60 HRC +/- .02 so the range could be as low as 58 and as high as 62 HRC. Its done that way to entice you or if checked like CBRx does with a tester you can usually find it all over unless tempered properly

[@papatechie]

Another excellent video!! Don’t forget the Gerber Terracraft, which while not modular, was an attempt to fill the size gap of the Principle minus the scandi grind.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@papatechie I’ll check it out! Thanks for subscribing!

[@erinsquirkychannel501]

What's the name of the 1st smaller knife that u said is good for scput carry

[@kevz9364]

Great Video. I have had great and bad examples of various steels and appreciate your testing/thoughts on the subject. I use a knife often in my work and appreciate a balanced knife steel. I have grown to appreciate a knife that sharpens well, holds an edge, and has good toughness. All that, as you point out, often comes down to heat treatment. Of course, along with geometry.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@kevz9364 Wise words! Unfortunately the industry cannot exist without hooking (mostly) men on hype de jour, hence the new bells and whistles have to come to light as frequently as marketers can conjure up some new reason.

[@MrCaissed]

Cardboard onion rings are delicious! I have been changing the sharpened angles on some of my knives. Mostly the 14c 28n and nitro V from 20 degrees to 17 degrees and even though it’s considered a budget steel changing the angle made the knife (s) perform like more expensive steels. Can that be done on all steels I think not. High carbon steels I think would chip. What does CBRx say??!! Great information as always!

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@MrCaissed I would go with what Dr. Darrin Thomas recommends: go as acute as your sharpener and skills allow, then work your way up if it chips or rolls. Always easier to go from acute to obtuse than the other way around.

[@MrCaissed]

@@CuttingBoardRx I’m assuming that if I need to change it I could put a micro bevel on to get my edge back or is that a bad thing. I only got to my second year of engineering when the company I was working for laid the entire company off I was working 4 hrs and in school 4 hrs in the same building and suddenly with 2 kids and the college and funding disappearing I wasn’t able too finish. Regrets I have a few! 😂

[@TheDemocultis]

Take your 14c to 15 degrees if you want a laser beam. It's also tough enough as long as you're not prying or doing ridiculous things with it 😊

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@TheDemocultis Pretty sure I have done all of the above. And I agree, it’s a decent steel. And so is 12C27N in many situations. Thanks for subscribing!

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@MrCaissed Micro bevel doesn’t hurt the edge stability. In fact, theoretically it actually may improve it. Think of convex grind as an infinite number of blended bevels 😉

[@mattstrader8956]

Thanks for the education

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Thanks for subscribing!

[@dongkhamet1351]

I'm not sure about when stabbing, but I have the clear impression that chopping on the soft, punky areas of sere Oak is actually harder on the edge than chopping into a well-seasoned part. The punky wood fibres don't shear cleanly; they bunch and twist, putting the edge under correspondingly bunchy, twisty stresses until it then mooshes into the harder layers with all that stress in tow. I rolled an edge yesterday doing just such chopping so this notion is fresh in mind. Any thoughts, please?

[@Yuzuki1337]

I just carved a walking stick a few days ago and the fibrous outer layers wore my edge out like crazy - touched it up afterwards and the carving of the core went without dulling my knife as badly so I'm inclined to agree.

[@dongkhamet1351]

@@Yuzuki1337 right on! But do you suppose that the punky layers might also work better at snapping the point off a knife than the well-seasoned part? I do wonder. I mean, obviously not if you were just stabbing through punky wood alone, but in nature the punky layers are usually backed up by hard stuff: so with one stab the blade penetrates the hard layers with a similar force, but first the blade is getting tangled up in all that fibrous mess. To really test this scientifically would be beyond my reach right now but I might make some experiment or other for my channel which I hereby shill to you.

[@Yuzuki1337]

@@dongkhamet1351 Good question! I've never really managed to badly chip, roll or bend my edges on wood alone but the theory that the uneven surfaces and bigger variety in hardness would apply more irregular force on the edge and as such wear it out worse does seem sound in my mind. I subbed to your channel and am looking forward to see if you can figure something out! :)

[@dongkhamet1351]

@@Yuzuki1337 thank you for this comment - I think it is an excellent explanation of the matter. Thanks also for your subscription!

[@charlesh6519]

It falls upon the knife manufacturer! The proper information about heat treating magnacut is out there and has been from the beginning. Until customers start holding companies accountable on proper heat treat instead of the unboxing experience then nothing is going to change!

[@NonScientificBladeTesting]

Bingo!

[@scdub]

Agreed

[@richardkev3077]

I’d much rather have a properly made Buck with outdated stainless steel than an incorrectly heat treated Magnacut blade.

[@NonScientificBladeTesting]

@@richardkev3077 exactly right

[@j.shorter4716]

Do you recommend the hardness tester you are using? Any downsides to it?

[@tgonzalez1983]

Won’t magnacut at 63+ hrc become less tough? Then break easier?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@tgonzalez1983 in the entire heat treat range MagnaCut is well below CruWear at the same hardness and both have similar mid-range edge retention. Corrosion resistance of MagnaCut is similar to LC200N but only below 62 HRC. It gets down to M390 levels above 62.

[@tgonzalez1983]

@@CuttingBoardRx I love cru wear. I have a spyderco with it and no rust issues.

[@tcw9240]

What was the HRC of the magnacut Dacian?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Your answer is in this video: What went wrong with Benchmade Dacian? Root cause identified. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2GwfZ2BYs2Bmc0

[@NZComfort]

I would like to echo the comments below. May we have a comparison video featuring 14c28n?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@NZComfort check out my videos about Fintiso brand knives in this playlist: Fintiso knives kzbin.info/aero/PLQk7wjytAnyks3U3NoNc_VdQ90JxM3pJ0 All of them are in 14C28N

[@ElJuIcE6o2]

Great video... thanks! What's your opinion on the Benchmade Fixed Adamas? I have the original Strongarm but recently purchased the Adamas.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Sorry that I didn’t respond yet! It’s because I’m planning to talk about this in an upcoming video.

[@KnivesAndPizza]

Awesome video

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for subscribing!

[@keithcon3505]

420hc is amazing for an abuse knife steel. It's a little softer than newer steels, but it is very tough. Yes, it needs th be sharpened a little more. O well, no big deal as it's very easy.

[@sloanNYC]

Even the inventor of Magnacut says it isn't meant for toughness, but rather to be the best well-rounded steel, for toughness he likes 14C28N and edge retention S90V. I honestly don't know why 420HC isn't used more than it is, given 1095 and it are both cheap. But for Magnacut he suggests 62-64 HRC for the best balance of edge retention and toughness.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@sloanNYC Actually, the absolute best comparison to MagnaCut in regards to toughness and hardness is CruWear. And LC200N in corrosion resistance. Honestly, most people buying MC would be equally well severed by coated CW blades. And divers need a serrated edge anyway, and LC and H2 serve that niche well.

[@sloanNYC]

@@CuttingBoardRx yeah, divers need more than MC for sure. Vanax is a great option too. I think of MC as an improved S35/45VN, or to your point, a stainless version of CruWear makes sense too. Curious though, why do I see much more 1095 instead of 420HC in outdoor fixed blades? Is it cost?

[@jimbusmaximus4624]

​@@sloanNYCI believe 420HC is more difficult to heat treat than 1095 and has slightly worse wear resistance. The major reason I'd guess is manufacturing cost, which involves a lot more than just the price of the stock.

[@kush662]

And yes I also agree, pommel on the knife also sucks, it only hurts my hand Everytime I would reach around the grab the blade.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Again, you are referring to the Original.

[@kush662]

@@CuttingBoardRx sorry about that. I do wonder, what is your opinion on glock knife as US armed forces standard knife? I seem to like it better, though it’s less corrosion resistant than 420hc and I value corrosion resistance quite a bit because of food prep.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@kush662 Concur. Glock M78 was my jeep knife until I went to use it and found plenty of rust on the edge. Czech army had a predecessor to the Glock that is made of 420C and comes with a clever saw and file attachments plus a fire rod all neatly stowed in the sheath. Mikov UTON 0007. It’s far from perfect but super neat for a militaria collector!

[@kush662]

@@CuttingBoardRx that is amazing, I’ll def check it out! I got another great idea for test, rusted edge vs non rusted stainless edge. I have a feeling DEEP! rust compromises edge. Cut test between the two would be amazing and informative. I would be curious about the results. Btw, my car knife was opinel stainless steel haha.

[@NonScientificBladeTesting]

Ah nice good to see some trigonometry here finally the engineering degree pays off😍

[@heavyweightsound]

Just lost a red flashlight like the magnetic one you have around your neck. Did you find mine? Jk😉 is that the Olight Imini? If I get a new one I'm going to keep it around my neck rather than on my keys. Good idea

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@heavyweightsound It’s mini 2. Click on video description, the links to them on Amazon are there.

[@heavyweightsound]

Ah... mine was battery powered. I guess those are obsolete now. Thanks for pointing that out. Didn't know this model existed😊

[@adadadad8251]

actually decent sparks from the choil

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@adadadad8251 Meh. Check out my video about Boker Vigtig vs Wild. Now that’s a bushcraft knife… 2x the price though. Easy mod anyway!

[@dongkhamet1351]

Ah but is that Buck 420HC sleeper-steel, or any of the inferior iterations? More specificity, please

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Gerber is the largest tool maker in the world, headquartered in Finland. I’m sure they have multiple suppliers for “not so rare” 420HC 🤣

[@The_RC_Guru]

Buck 420hc is a rip-off for their prices. Low end steel in an overpriced package.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

No idea how to answer this… 420HC IS THE CHEAPEST STAINLESS STEEL used by US manufacturers. Buck is not affiliated with Gerber. Buck makes knives that are of varying quality. Why are we discussing Buck anyway?

[@The_RC_Guru]

@@CuttingBoardRx because it looks like he’s one of the believers that buck sprinkles magic fairy dust on their 420hc that makes it special lol.

[@dongkhamet1351]

@@CuttingBoardRx Firstly, because I replied to the title of your video before I watched it ;D Also because as KZbin's premier independent scientific blade tester you might like to assess the widely held view that Buck's 420HC with the Paul Bos heat treatment is superior to other companies' 420HC: so much so that it exists within a category of its own.

[@georgespicer907]

All 420HC is tougher than all magnacut. If heat treated properly. I don't mean properly as you do. You are referring to a proper heat treat to mean targeting your preferred HRC. I mean proper as following the protocol, regardless of targeted HRC. And all magnacut is going to have better edge holding and be more stainless than the 420. Not better or worse just different

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@georgespicer907 I’m confused… You just restated my position on heat treat in its entirety. And yet, somehow, it feels like your intent is an argument? Are you agreeing to agree or disagreeing to disagree? Or do you imply that if one follows a protocol he may end up at a different hardness than that protocol specifies? Could you please lease clarify your point?

[@Mike-mi3yw]

The Dacian has a much more fragile tip than the gerber. Based on the geometry it’s not surprising it broke. But I’m not a benchmade or gerber fan either though and the strong arm is a good knife for the money.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@Mike-mi3yw Actually, the new Camp has a very similar blade geometry with full flat grind at the tip. Just like the Dacian. Apples to apples.

[@Mike-mi3yw]

I hear what your saying I think that the Dacian has a strange triangular shape making the point super pointy and not carrying material forward like the drop point of the strongarm. Just my opinion, but either way I’m probably never buying a benchmade again which has been my position for years now

[@powersww1reset]

Ice

[@scdub]

MagnaCut, like all other steels, should be researched and understood by the maker or manufacturer BEFORE they start making knives with it. MagnaCut never set out to be “greater” (to use your word) than other steels. Instead, as you said, it’s a balanced “Jack of all trades”. Spyderco seems to be making good use of it in folders - wouldn’t you agree?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@scdub I agree with your first point and with your second point I actually would disagree. Check out my videos on Spyderco Salt series. Bottom line: MagnaCut can be “adjusted” to be very CR as Spy does, but at a cost of giving up some edge retention. It can be “tuned” for edge retention to a decent level at the cost of corrosion resistance and toughness. What is the balance zone? 61.5 to 63 HRC is where all 3 properties give up some but not too much. Benchmade targets 60-62 HRC with +/- .5 so they are in that zone.

[@scdub]

Salt Magnacut still probably has better edge retention than 420 HC though right? And just not quite as tough. I’m fine that they favored toughness and CR personally for a “heavy use” “salt” knife. Anyway great videos bud - keep them coming!

[@kush662]

Gerber strong arm is a decent knife but I just hate the ergonomics and materials of the handle. Also Gerber needs to understand what fine print is haha. The giant font branding on the side knife makes me wonder if this knife was designed for 18 year old marines or 65 year old retired dads with poor vision. Everytime I pick one up it feels like I picked up my grandpa’s cell phone haha. Cmon Gerber be classy and let the design of the knife speak for itself. Amateurs.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

obviously you’re referring to the ORIGINAL Strongarm ant it’s large print lettering, because the new one has very discrete writing. The unbiased answer is: the original is being used by a couple NATO military outfits so it has to meet STANAG 2290 Specification, which requires the lettering to be of a certain size. The US equivalent of that Spec is MIL-STD-130.

[@kush662]

@@CuttingBoardRx oh thanks for info! Yes I meant the the original sorry. I actually didn’t think they were doing it because of mil spec. Something new I learned today!

[@Knivess0]

Is that AI generated art in your thumbnail?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@Knivess0 No! Sometimes I ask my 1st cousin and his brother in law to pose for the thumbnail.

[@grumpyuncle.]

All that wiggling is generating a lot of heat in the metal that defeats thinner tips. Certainly thicker is better, and some steels preform better than others at identical thickness. What I don't see on KZbin is anyone talking about how to do prying at a pace and depth that preserves the tip of the blade. Heat is a big part of blade failure when prying aggressively.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@grumpyuncle. Is this a trick question? Or are you just kidding?

[@grumpyuncle.]

@@CuttingBoardRx I was actually being serious (rare for me). The post was not meant to challenge your methods of testing. I enjoy your channel quite a bit. Rather I was thinking of the loads of videos of people rapidly digging a hole in 2x4s with the tip of their blade, as a survival technique. Almost inevitably they bend or snap the tip, and then often blame the manufacturer. As for my experience with metals. I am no engineer, but I know from some of my training in rigging that flexing steel creates heat, and during the time the steel is warmed up, it loses quite a bit of strength. I theorize based on that information, that rapid tip flexing would also weaken the thin tip.

[@grumpyuncle.]

Do you have any thoughts on heat influencing tip breakage? Again, I am no engineer, and I have not done any testing of my theory.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@grumpyuncle. Ok, I get it now, you are transferring your rigging expertise to the blade situation. Steel cables, chains and links, used in rigging, are subject to vibration that results from effects of wind on structures. Or, in case of trucking, from combined effect of road induced shocks and wind induced vibration. That type of vibration can produce frequencies of 10 Hz to 200 Hz, depending on situation and other factors. Hertz is times per second. So if you vibrate something 200 times per second, you can build up enough heat, mostly due friction between strands of wire, links etc, to reduce steel’s ability to remain elastic, leading to accelerated fatigue fracturing. My entire test of 25 strikes puts bending torque on the blade 100-150 times total, which is not enough time to build up enough heat to cause molecular level transformation. Great question, thanks!

[@grumpyuncle.]

​@@CuttingBoardRx Sometimes I struggle to process the realities of science while also protecting my inflated opinions :D Thank you for the reply and science-based information. Keep up the good work!

[@TheDemocultis]

Magnacut isn't the problem. Shit companies like Benchmade are. Test some Spyderco magnacut, big difference. That being said you're either I effectively trying to dog magnacut for some otherworldly reason. It certainly isn't pot, no slurring so it isn't alcohol. What are you on man?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@TheDemocultis Thanks for watching!

[@odie2763]

This is such a dump comparison.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Thanks for watching!

[@marklightner3538]

Agree. The Gerber is literally twice the knife at 1/3 of the cost

[@theunknownatheist3815]

Most fun math lesson ever! Geometry 📐 is awesome! 😂

[@CuttingBoardRx]

It really is! Everything in the world is ruled by it!