Hearthstone Experiments: Weasel Tunneler (Strange Interactions)

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[@DisguisedToast]

Alright, see you guys in 6 months. 3 if I get out early for Good Behavior.

[@deimantuxs]

Don't joke like that !

[@kadelarson1766]

Disguised Toast 1 If you can weasel your way out sooner.

[@bencarroll8203]

Disguised Toast what happens when most lurker kills it? When lurker dies which side does it end up on

[@skurai2503]

Bring lotion with you my love, or else your toast may not stay the same after 3 or 6 months

[@Vile_Oreo]

Wait what?

[@bakublader1999]

should we test this card? nah, people won't play it anyways.

[@yeast7485]

Behomie the first day of msg every opponent i Faced played a Weasel deck.

[@Vaalferatus]

Shadowverse.

[@dikdikabdul7953]

Vaalferatus lol

[@Kyomatsu]

In case you have read this comment on reddit before...

[@gabrieltaveira]

GREEN GAMERVAK played gwent beta today, still pretty shitty

[@emreavci3355]

Just purify it, bug fixed.

[@Mofriese]

we all knew purify would come in handy at some point.

[@songhunter93]

hahahahaha

[@uknownada]

This is the buggiest card ever put into Hearthstone.

[@FeamT]

If only we had a minion that was capable of destroying such Insects...

[@uknownada]

Feam T We shouldn't use it too soon.

[@FuriosoDrummer]

Or swatting them.

[@colinrussell2857]

uknownada BY FIRE BE PURGED

[@barokas.]

you haven't been around to see nozdormu in its prime then

[@silentcaay]

If there's one thing Blizzard is consistent about... it's being inconsistent.

[@Th3Sh1n1gam1]

Soon they're gonna be inconsistent about being inconsistent.

[@firefly5046]

Blizzard is consistent at putting huge dick on fans.

[@RickyMuzakki]

Huge dick of ben brode, love it

[@Izandaia]

The source of these dumb interactions is the fact that the card is physically (yeah yeah, the game is digital, shut up) put into your opponent's deck. This change of control is why everything goes screwy. What the ability should be is this: "Deathrattle: Shuffle a Weasel Tunneler into your opponent's deck." This will cause a friendly Weasel Tunneler dying to be treated as a friendly minion dying, and an enemy Weasel Tunneler dying to be treated as an enemy minion dying, as it should be. This will also make Baron Rivendale work right, as the interaction that most people are probably expecting there is that their opponent gets two Weasel Tunnelers in their deck, rather than the one Weasel just going back into its owner's deck. Baron Rivendale is supposed to make your minions with deathrattles better, not negate them. Plus, having the Weasel actually die instead of get shuffled into the opponent's deck will allow Soul of the Forest to work right.

[@sabaoz]

The weasel kept the Soul of the Forest Deathrattle while beeing shuffled into oponents deck. I wonder if it keeps other buffs as well - wich would be at least a small reason for the card to work this way, coming out in an expansion that has a lot of card-buffing going on.

[@Izandaia]

Keeping buffs defeats the whole purpose of the card though, which is to shuffle a bad card into your opponent's deck.

[@shadowmage661]

shuffle a 1 mana 10/10 into the opponent's deck would not seem like much of a punishment anymore lol if it were to work like that.

[@Inkilo]

Its from the order of deathrattles. The weasel's own deathrattle is the one written on the card when played so it is first to trigger the souls of the forest does not get a chance to go off because at that point the card is in the opponents deck and not dead. When it's deathrattle goes off it writes the deathrattle onto itself so that it is now after souls of the forest in the order of deathrattles causing the interaction seen.

[@Septimus_ii]

Yeah, your version would be much better and be much more intuitive

[@DammitSinged]

Khadgar Fireball Prank *(GONE WRONG)* HD [KILLS 3 ARABS] 2016

[@hundiini7427]

*GONE SEXUAL | GONE TOO FAR*

[@alpergumulu9547]

Just made my day xD

[@2011carp]

"looks like you cant weasel your way out of blizzard jail this time toast" -Brode

[@tipoima]

Just change the card to "put a Weasel into opponent's deck" simple, bug fixed, I get job in Blizzard

[@platogaren7484]

if they did this i could raptor my weazel without giving them my raptors!

[@karta1496324]

Nope! because you can fix it .So you can not work for blizzard

[@MrFairbanksak1]

Like, a 1/1 weasel with no effect, or a copy of the tunneling weasel? Maybe putting a copy of the weasel instead of the weasel directly going into your opponents deck would fix teh bugs. Or maybe just a 1/1 no effect minion would be less buggy.

[@ReptillianStrike]

but a 1/1 with no effect is boring

[@clearlypellucid]

They should just change the Deathrattle to put a COPY of Weasel Tunneler in your opponent's deck. All problems solved!

[@SuperRayman001]

Would lose the flavor of a weasel burying itself through the decks though.

[@JackofCookieJars]

It could still have that animation, and it would solve all of the problems.

[@AtomicBoo]

thats what I was thinking as well, Blizzard likes to over complicate stuff and break their own game

[@buttecake]

I like that it uses a unique mechanic, I just don't like the strange buggy behavior like the soul of the forrest interaction

[@MauranKilom]

They don't even need to mention that it's a different one. Would be marginally inconsistent, but arguably better than the mess we have now.

[@jaeusa160]

Of course it's bugged. Why even playtest anything they program for basic functionality... Almost every possible interaction with this card is broken. Almost all of them! I mean, that's basic bleeping playtesting! Where is ANY amount of quality control here?!?!! You SHOULD pitchfork Blizzard because this is a product of EXISTING year-old+ bugs and they STILL release the card.

[@NykowPalalum]

Same thing happened with Scaled Nightmare when it was released. It pisses me off how they don't even test the card because they know it will never be played in tournament.

[@shadowmage661]

also it is not like they are releasing a ridiculous amount of expansions or cards per expansion. Nor are most of the cards something that needs to be tested. 20 or so iterations of the buff a card in hand type can all be tested at once. There are the general statted minions that don't need testing from a bug standpoint and then there are the few strange new cards that should be tested at least to a satisfactory degree. The fact that they made the same mistake as what they did with entomb and djinn means they probably just added some sort of exception fix for entomb, assuming they even fixed it, rather than fix the root of the problem.

[@aithne99]

Everything would be fixed if Entomb-like effects worked by shuffling a copy into your deck, similarly to Gang Up. It's really easy to code it, actually, and I believe Malorne was once changed to this behavior. Or the other way around. However, copying would present a whole new set of bugs.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Why in hell do you cry? That's just a shit card which is known only because it's buged. Bug is almost a good thing for this card XD

[@jaeusa160]

At least Scaled Nightmare was ALMOST different from an existing effect (Blessed Champion), almost. This Weasel is basically Alpha Testing put on live servers, riddled with existing bugs they already didn't fix. Almost every interaction the Weasel has is broken, almost ALL of them, as though NONE of them were tested at all! That's just SO lazy! Bugs happen, but there's no excuse for THIS many EXISTING bugs on 1 card.

[@gamingtime9716]

Only change the soul of the forest interaction. All others make sense

[@pinny0101]

no, only the rivendare one makes any sense for how the card text explains it.

[@gamingtime9716]

To me, I'm fine with odd rules as long as they are consistent. Having a minion's allegiance based on decks and not graveyards is fine, as long as it is consistent. With Weasel Tunneler and Djinni it is. However, that Soul of the Forest has no other interaction like it, so no rule can be made,

[@jacksonsteal7082]

Master Yi From Dota The Cult Master interactions make no sense.

[@f00pers]

they don't really make sense in how the card is supposed to work. you can reasonable explain why it happens, but that doesn't mean it should. the card is just a useless meme right now, because any interactions that make it strong just backfire.

[@camjnz]

I agree with you, and I think the interaction with Soul of the Forest is a bug in soul of the forest, because it works fine with Explorer's Hat. It may not be the most intuitive thing, but it is consistent, in a similar way to if you cast evolve and get a Wild Pyromancer, he will deal 1 damage to everything. It isn't intuitive but it is consistent.

[@CesarDaSalad]

... and that was the last time anyone put a Weasel Tunnel in their deck.

[@doombybbr]

except if you could give it negative effects it would turn into something awesome.

[@L0LWTF1337]

When we ever want some cool Mill cards that put stuff into the enemy deck, then we need a simple rule: Everything needs to be a copy. It's not to fucking hard to make weasel put a copy of itself into the deck. Then all the weird interaction fall of since the card on the board is not the same as the one that's put into the deck.

[@kollegahsterin]

I think Weasel should just act like any other minion without that "counts as your opponents minion while still visually on your side" bullcrap. Finish all the interactions while it's still on your side and treat it 100% as your minion, then shuffle it into your opponents deck, THEN treat it 100% as an opponent's minion. This makes the rules more consistent and transparent and easier for new players to learn.

[@TheDisarminghinkle]

I mean, obviously, that's what they WANTED to have happen. Sometimes, programming gets weird. The issue is that they try to keep the programming as generic as possible so as to allow future interactions between cards that don't exist yet. The trouble as it appears to me is that they haven't actually made a function for "shuffling a minion into the opponent's deck". Instead, they just use the "shuffle a minion into your own deck" function by just changing the minion's alignment. And, since there's already a function for changing alignments, that's much more efficient. The more functions you add, the more clunky programming gets, and the harder it becomes to add to it down the road. For a game like Hearthstone, that's bad news.

[@leetri]

Looks like they should rewrite the code so it's easier to add cards that actually work the way they should then. Blizzard is one of if not the largest games company out there, so there's no excuse for their game to have tons of janky, buggy features. Not even the smallest of indie card games have cards this buggy.

[@frodothedodo]

I think these interactions definitely should've been tested and discovered long before release. Even if they fix it, it won't excuse Blizzard's negligence for testing cards

[@elijahg.1891]

Maybe they WANTED it to be like that.

[@CompleteAnimation]

I think they should make a Disguised Toast card for Hearthstone.

[@The0x6]

Battlecry: Give this card a random bug.

[@Warclam]

You mean like SI:7 Agent?

[@ObakeOnna]

It should be a minion called Disguised Toast that says the line: "Ha! SI:7 agent." when played.

[@flambergciou7565]

Should be Battlecry: Discover a bug. Deathrattle: Shuffle this minion into Blizzard jail.

[@Felixr2]

Nah, it should be a spell called Lights Out, and would be 0 mana with the effect "disguise your toast"

[@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa]

If you build bugs Toast will find them.

[@MultiEpicnezz]

There is a bug on my toast!

[@Pendulumnew1]

Blizzard is more like, "There is a toast on my bug!"

[@nritsch]

"Now what happens if you reincarnate a weasel?"

[@watchyourprofanity8708]

i really want jank deck where your opponents deck is eventually filled with 300 weasels.

[@jhonnylee6685]

max cards are 60 sry bruh

[@watchyourprofanity8708]

Jhonny Lee -;

[@alexislejossec5768]

Jhonny Lee mq

[@piewarrior4357]

Disguised Toast whats your favorite Card from msg?

[@DisguisedToast]

Patches The Pirate, because I like games that ends before Turn 5.

[@aa-nf2ip]

Yeah sure, we know you. You like roping till turn 20.

[@SHARPxOix69]

I never thought that a 1 mana 1/1 will break the game

[@foxmulder8955]

it didnt, the 1/2 is a much stronger card

[@ubelmensch]

Disguised Toast Don't lie to me your favorite is Madam Goya you furry lover

[@BloodMoonFT]

Got 2 of these golden bastards from 14 packs #feelsbad

[@kosmikme]

PreX' BloodMoon you have a better chance at getting a legendary than a golden epic #FeelsBadMan

[@k-master973]

PreX' BloodMoon I feel ya man. I got two Genzo, The Shark. I guess we both got 800 dust at least

[@H34db34ng]

PreX' BloodMoon 800 dust ... so actually feel good

[@Evellence]

Well thats good for you! Because if they change this card you can disenchant it for full price

[@somehungrypersonwhowantsfo8544]

its only if they nerf the card. The card is purely a "fun" card and doesn't limit game design like master of disguise. Changing how specific mechanics work won't warrant a full dust refund.

[@The97gtrs]

This card is so broken. Like literally glitchy as shit. And all they needed to do is say "Shuffle aTunneler of this minion into your opponent's deck."

[@emikochan13]

The code isn't derived from the card text lol

[@The97gtrs]

The code is extremely similar. My assumption is they have one team to come up with ideas/text and another to code things (and even if they don't the concept is the same). If you change the text of the card and approach it from a new perspective (the one I describe) the glitch would instantly be solved. Instead of putting "this" card into your opponent's deck, you are putting in a new card, meaning no issues arise.

[@mrawesome2utb]

I guess "Deathrattle: Shuffle a Weasel Tunneler into your opponent's deck" would be the easy way to fix it... though it's kind of an underwhelming card in that case.

[@The97gtrs]

mrawesome2utb wasn't the whole point of the card to be something you can fill your opponent's deck with to fuck with their draws? That would mean that having Baron puts two copies of it in the opponent's deck. That fulfills the card's purpose perfectly. And if it's supposed to be a "chaotic, fun, exciting" card then it should be a legendary and it duplicates itself in the opponent's deck or something like that.

[@mrawesome2utb]

I guess I have been contaminated by the value meta...

[@Flourish38]

For adding deathrattles to it (like explorers hat), they could maybe have a rule where the weasel death rattle always triggers last? That would solve those problems at least.

[@_pj7346]

This would fix all inconsitencies. Unless you consider the Baron interaction to be an inconsistency.

[@Flourish38]

tylerme14 I don't think it would fix the moat lurker one.

[@klony1280]

It's probably a subroutine that says something like "Make this minion an enemys' Minion" - and after that does the rest of the deathrattles. If you could change this line sufficiently, it would be fixed forever. So before anything happens in the deathrattle, it transfers the minion to the other player. If you open up the possibility of doing this in a later state, or just directly effect an enemy minion (why ever in the world this is not possible I do not understand), you could probably solve it. Also, interactions with the Mechatronthingy that is a boss on Tavern Brawl would be fun. (Although this particular mob is a minion on the enemys' field in your turn and therefor would not have those problems.)

[@simio4760]

You're doing their job for free.

[@TUNDRA2529]

He gets paid by KZbin.

[@simio4760]

Clay Norrbin well played

[@TUNDRA2529]

***** He is making at least $3000 a month. Hardly chump change for making hearthstone videos. He also probably makes a good $5000 or more from Twitch. In total he probably would lose money going on a Hearthstone debugger payroll. Trump has said a typical well known Hearthstone streamer is making >$100,000 a year.

[@hugoichristianus]

He's playing a game?

[@d0718]

Who else didn't realise that LoE was as long as 1 year ago!!

[@protivoush]

Exactly the same. I was like "Wait wut"

[@berndarndt9924]

Thats bc we all are früstrated of the aggro/face meta decks.

[@watson498]

Dmitry L I was honestly surprised. This year has gone by really fast

[@tyjoshty9984]

Dmitry L i did not lol

[@davidholczreiter2700]

Dmitry L

[@jeroenverschaeve3090]

I don't mind this at all, just a funny card behaving in a funny way.

[@JimFaindel]

Whenever Ben Brode laughs a priest cries.

[@ricarleite]

Let me fix this card for Blizzard: 1 Mana 2/1 Deathrattle: add a 1/1 Weasel Tunneler to your oponent's deck.

[@Watchit1337]

Regarding the soul of the forest interaction, perhaps when you give the weasel the summon 2/2 treant deathrattle, it's qued to occour after it's original deathrattle, so when the original weasel deathrattle occurs it's already alive in your opponents deck. Once there it's given it's deathrattle back, but this time it's qued after the summon 2/2 treant deathrattle. Weasel has deathrattle 1: tunnel > give Weasel soul of forest deathrattle Weasel has deathrattle 1: tunnel, deathrattle 2: soul of the forest > Weasel dies, deathrattle 1 triggers and is sent to the enemy deck Weasel has deathrattle 1: soul of the forest > Soul of the forest doesn't trigger because Weasel is in the enemy deck before it could trigger > Weasel is given it's original deathrattle again as if it has been resummoned Weasel has deathrattle 1: soul of the forest, deahtrattle 2: tunnel > Weasel is resummoned and dies, deathrattle 1 triggers summoning the treant, deathrattle 2 triggers tunneling the weasel

[@Yagizino]

i think the weasel should shuffle itself to chat Kappa

[@Abyssic1]

what a buggy mess. all that can't be intended

[@lothrazar]

im surprised they did not catch any of these crazy things during their testing

[@WrathOfMega]

I'm surprised enough people have caught these for it to be known already.

[@_pj7346]

+WrathOfMega People like playing with weird interactions, and that's a way that many bugs get discovered. But in the case of this card, some of its inconsistencies could be found through normal gameplay, b/c it can be summoned with various effects randomly. Or discovered.

[@Voidmager]

How? They have made it blatantly obvious they don't test shit in this game.

[@electronsympathy]

I think the easy fix is to make the deathrattle work as if it said: "Deathrattle: Shuffle a copy of Weasel Tunneler into your opponent's deck." This would make it so your Weasel still dies on your side of the board and all the interactions normalize, with the exception of Resurrection effects, which may now fish up a Weasel. But that's not such a bad deal, as it can be seen as an all-class soft-counter to Resurrect decks like Hex and Polymorph. And one janky interaction is better than a handful of niche interactions like the ones you've shown us, Toasty. Also, that would open up the chance at the "Weasel-Lockdown" combo for rogue. By using Shadowstep, Brann, and Raptors to turn one dead Weasel into a deck full of weasels.

[@MrMbc77]

Seems like the hearthstone team needs some better programmers. Over a year and they can't fix these obvious broken interactions and even continue to release cards that have the same problems.

[@Bordey]

What happens if you stack the deathrattles with Brann + Riverdare + Raptor? Both Player A and Player B have Brann and Baron Riverdare on board. Player A (rogue) play Weasel Tunneler, and then plays Unearthed Raptor, targeting the Weasel; it now has 2x weasel deathrattle. Player A play another Unearthed Raptor, targeting his own raptor this time. The newer Raptor now copies the deathrattles twice, meaning it has 4x weasel deathrattle. Player A uses Shadowstep on old Raptor, then plays it targeting the new Raptor, which has 8x deathrattles. He plays his second Shadowstep on the older raptor and then replays it, and now it has 16x Weasel Deathrattles. Player B may assist by returning the old Raptors back into Player A's hand with Saps or Kidnappers, and Player A may also use Brewmasters and Ferrymen to replay older raptors, potentially allowing a Raptor to gain 32x, 64x, 128x, or even 256x Weasel deathreattles due to Brann doubling the number of deathrattles gained each time. When the players are done with this, one of them plays Moat Lurker on the Raptor with the highest amount of deathrattles on it. Brann causes the Moat Lurker to kill the raptor twice (2x 256 deathrattles = 512 deathrattles triggered) and also gain the deathrattles twice over; The Moat Lurker now has 1024 deathrattles on it. Now, the other player plays his Moat Lurker on the opposing Lurker, and both players keep doing this until they either run out of cards to grow the combo, or until they crash the game. This would work with other deathrattles as well, but I think Weasel Tunneler's deathrattle is among the more interesting when it comes to seeing how the game decides to act out.

[@MultiFrogfrogfrog]

I mean they could have just made the card read "Shuffle a Weasel Tunneler into your opponents deck" instead of "shuffle this minion" and than it would create copies and these would not have happened. Oh well, lets be honest, these will pretty much never come up and the card is really bad, although a fun idea

[@martl8615]

Problem solved!

[@volbla]

Yeah? That would solve these issues, but i wonder if there was a reason to put the "this minion" on it. The only interaction i can come up with where that would be (intentionally) relevant is if you Unearthed Raptor the Weasel. Then the Raptor would be shuffled into the enemy deck instead of another Weasel. ... But that is a bad combo anyways, so maybe it should just be "shuffle a Weasel".

[@charcharmunr]

Or, even more simply, just "shuffle a copy of this minion". I mean, the only other comparable effects are Malorne, Anub'arak and the Skeletal Knight, which have weird interactions with Deathrattles too. Malorne + Rivendare, for example, only returns one Malorne, because the Deathrattle isn't "Shuffle Malorne into your deck", it's "Shuffle this minion into your deck", and triggering it twice is a meaningless thing in that case. It's just the weasel is even buggier because it ALSO changes owner.

[@gogolegends3]

Frog It's for Zombeast one year latter Kappa

[@xnick_uy]

I think that every player would expect the effect to be "*Deathrattle*: Shuffle _a copy_ of this minion into your opponent's deck." Also, about Entomb, what every player would expect is "Choose an enemy minion. _Remove it from the game_ and shuffle a copy of it into your deck." I think that if the cards worked somehow like that, it would more accurately represent everyone's expectations and predictions.

[@obersin1]

This card is a cute concept (filling your opponents deck with 1/1s), but will never see play as it's never worth wasting a card spot in a deck.

[@Taskuli12]

Obersin Hearthstone Animations and its mind as well be shit draw for yourself so its just fun card

[@duckgamer7095]

Surprise! In Kobolds and Catacombs... weasel priest.

[@RaganorWminecraft]

I think that a simple change in a code (and in the card text ofc) would make it work properly. What I mean by that is just changing from "Shuffle this minion into your opponent's deck" to "Shuffle a copy of this minion into your opponent's deck"

[@theplaneshifter803]

I think I understand why Soul of The Forest behave that way, and you should have tested with Infest and other effects that give minions deathrattles. I believe it is because if deathrattle ordering. Soul of the Forest is the second deathrattle and by that time the minion is not dead anymore. But when played again, Soul of The Forest becomes it's first deathrattle, triggering first. Now, I am not saying this is how it should work, I am just saying I understand how the coding behind it is working. A question: how does Unearthed Raptor behaves if copying Tunneling Weasel? What if Brann is involved too?

[@junamboqcg2369]

Unearthed Raptor will get shuffled into the opponent's deck. I'm not 100% sure on the Brann, but my money says that it works out the same way as the Baron Rivendare interaction.

[@sagebeasley3303]

I had an interesting interaction in the tavern brawl with this fella. I had the getaway kodo secret, and my opponent had a buffed-from-hand weasel on board. When I killed his weasel, it put the buffed weasel card directly into my hand. I thought it was interesting that it kept the buff, and I wasn't sure why.

[@oletramekaf5603]

The guy from "Catch me if you can" was hired by the FBI. Why hasn't Toast been hired by Blizzard yet?!?!

[@TheKGecko]

I'd imagine the deathrattles are actually activated by order place: because weasel tunneler was summoned first with it's own deathrattle, then having another deathrattle placed upon it, the weasel shuffles itself before activating it's deathratttle. The reason it would activate the second time is probably due to the game not keeping track of the order of the deathrattles after it is placed in the deck. Maybe do an experiment with Malorne?

[@ThelastArchdemon47]

the card is still 100 dust use it for better card like purify

[@telephonedude]

So why does Rivendare even proc the Weasel twice? It says *your* minions trigger their deathrattles twice, and with it changing allegiance... I feel like effects like Rivendare's and Djinni's should be resolved using the board state at the time the event took place. For example: You Entomb an enemy minion > Djinni's effect checks the spell's target *at the time of casting* > doesn't proc. This is a change. Weasel dies > gets shuffled into opponent's deck > other deathrattles trigger in order (because he still "died") > Rivendare checks Weasel's allegiance *at the time of dying* > shuffles him into the *Weasel's opponent at the time of dying*, resulting in just a simple reshuffle for your opponent > other deathrattles trigger in order once more. Regardless, I think to preserve the "spirit of the card" (only half-joking here) by far the easiest and clearest solution would have been a card text like "When this minion has 0 health, instead of dying, shuffle it into your opponent's deck." That way it's perfectly clear what's going on, and it's still a scurrying little weasel. Alternatively: "When this minion has 0 health, trigger all of this minion's Deathrattle effects. Then shuffle it into your opponent's deck."

[@KieranLehaneJ]

it ltierally felt like a couple of months ago that league of explorers was released

[@morphoose923]

Kieran Lehane to me it kinda felt more than a year by now lol

[@EvlNinjadude]

I think the Soul of the Forest interaction happened because the minion has deathrattles that trigger in order. Attaching the "summon treant" deathrattle puts it at the end of the queue, meaning that it doesn't trigger and remains attached to the Tunneler as it gets shuffled into the deck. When it is played again, it gains its new shuffling deathrattle, but Soul of the Forest is now the first deathrattle to trigger and summons a treant before the shuffling. Anyone agree/disagree?

[@jamesklimt]

Already putting the reddit headshots of Ben Brode to good use, I see.

[@Csedoo]

The card deathrattle text (and mechanic) should be changed to: "Deathrattle: shuffle a COPY of this minion into your opponents deck."

[@88Nieznany88]

baron rivendare should shuffle 2 useless shits into opponent deck.

[@Raktoner]

That soul of the forest one cannot possibly be the intended interaction

[@LastSider]

How long are the Skype calls in Blizzard jail?

[@GarrettFehon]

The reason for the Soul of the Forest interaction is the time-stamping on the deathrattles. When you play the weasel the first time, its deathrattle to shuffle in gets time stamped, and then when you play Soul of the Forest, it gets a second deathrattle with a later timestamp. Then when the weasel dies, the first deathrattle resolves, putting it into your opponent's deck before the second deathrattle occurs, which is still time-stamped on the Weasel Tunneler. Then when your opponent plays it, the shuffle-in deathrattle gets a later timestamp than the Soul of the Forest, and when it dies they get a 2/2 before it gets shuffled into your deck. It's kind of like the stack from MtG but in the opposite order.

[@gentlemanjoker1777]

all i know is that if blizz doesn't do anything we know for sure they're a bunch of weasels kappa

[@ryusorata]

they could simply change it to "put a copy of this minion..." cause the card now states "put this minion" thats why so many crazy interactions

[@felipecejas9313]

I ONLY HEARD GO RIOT TO BLIZZARD

[@thatguycommented746]

When weasel dies it has a 1% chance to add a deathwing to your hand

[@aarOuOn]

Testers too expensive for small indie company. lul

[@HandsomeGamerGuy]

It's a Joke.

[@klony1280]

5:33 So much value! PogChamp

[@jaloveast1k]

80 lvl of inconsistancy

[@The0x6]

So can he battle the inconsistent Lich King ?

[@thewatcherinthecloud]

allied with the inconsistent Tirion Fordring. Technically, we're at hearthstone's 4 expansion, so the level of inconsistuncy should be 90

[@panosxatz4600]

The soul of the forest interaction does actually make sense.I'd say that the game has a queue for deathrattles and they activate in a first come first serve order.So when you use the soul of the forest on this Weasel,the effect of the card becomes its second deathrattle.So when it dies the first one activates,shuffling it into your opponents deck,but the second one cannnot because the shuffle mechanic works like Entomb,and thus does not trigger any more deathrattle effects.Reminder that the effect of the card states that the same minion is shuffled into the deck,not a copuy so the secondary deathrattle remains. When it is played again the first deathrattle in the queue is the one of the soul of the forest,since it existed before the card was even played and then the actualt deathrattle of the card gets in the queue as the card is placed on the board.So when it is destroyed once again,the queue activates the first deathrattle which is the soul of the forest and then the card's original one,shuffling it into the opponents deck.

[@DinoBat]

when this is the only non rare you pull after 20 packs.

[@hyperistica]

Steven Xie So every other card is rare in those 20 packs? That's *rarer* than a golden legendary!

[@DinoBat]

Shengsong Gao definitely what I meant :^)

[@Kyomatsu]

That's impossible cause you get at least 1 epic in 10 packs.

[@DinoBat]

Kyo where the fuck did you read that?

[@Atlas980299]

Its just like you always get 1 legendary in 40 packs.

[@Hexamore1994]

Wouldnt the easiest change be to change the text to "Shuffle a COPY of this card into your opponents deck." Less flavor but more consistent

[@josephcole8102]

when the green border appears after killing an enemy weasel, could you quickly drag it to attack?

[@Halobbrine]

corgirino kripparino no the border was there because he drew the same weasel that he killed so the game was saying that he could play it.

[@Halobbrine]

DesireAndDream thats what i said...

[@deriver]

At the time, your comment wasn't loaded for me because I was watching the video and didn't reload the page before commenting

[@CarpeGuitarrem]

It's the same thing that happens when you Shadowstep a minion.

[@boynedmaster]

if your apm is high enough you can

[@ParkerMan0]

The weasel with the treant interaction: For this explanation we will need to assume that a card only gains the deathrattle the card text says after it is put into play. Deathrattles activate in the order they were placed on the minion, so using soul of the forest on the weasel is AFTER playing the weasel, so the order is Weasel deathrattle->Treant, however, since its first deathrattle puts it into the deck, the second one can't trigger. The weasel is now in the deck with the soul of the forest deathrattle, so when it's played it will gain the weasel deathrattle, this time, the order is Treant->Weasel deathrattle, so when it dies it summons the treant and then it goes into your opponent's deck.

[@Sweetfunkyjesus]

They should just change it to read "add a copy of Weasel Tunneler to your opponent's deck". There. Done.

[@TheBreathless24]

Yea its not like changing the card text, it will change the effect to whatever you write.....They have to change the entire code behind it, which obviously isn't as simple as you might think.

[@DoABarrelRol1l]

I think there are already cards that add 'this card' to your deck.So basically do that rather than trying at this particular weasel to their deck. Which is what I think is happening in the case with the 2/2 treant death rattle ability staying on even after shoving him into a deck.

[@amulshah77]

My opinion on what I would like some of these interactions to be: 1. Baron Rivendare - 2 copies of the weasel get shuffled into your opponent's deck 2. Explorer's Hat on your weasel -You get the hat back 3. Soul of the Forest - The 2/2 treant gets summoned to your side when your weasel dies 4. Reincarnate and Moat Lurker - The weasel gets summoned to the same side that it died on 5. Cult master and backroom bouncer - They should not trigger if you kill an opponent's weasel

[@gurugamma4904]

I may not be able to join the Q&A Toast, but I have a nagging question, so I'll put it here to be safe: how does Sergeant Sally interact with Inner Rage? Does she hit your opponent's board for 1 or for 3? This might have actual applications in a midrange warrior deck, but I don't yet own Sally so I can't test it myself.

[@junamboqcg2369]

Usually, when you kill a minion with inner rage, you see the buffed attack pop up before the "death" animation, so my guess would be that she hits for 3.

[@gurugamma4904]

Junambo QCG Yeah that was my thought, but I haven't seen anyone try it yet and everyone knows how inconsistent the Brode Code is.

[@junamboqcg2369]

True, I'd like to test it out myself, but I don't have that card either, so I can only speculate.

[@PaganW]

I do have the card and tested it for you. It hits the enemy minions for 3, which was kinda expected. Same with Cruel Taskmaster. So there might be potential using it as aoe in midrange.

[@gurugamma4904]

PaiganW Blessings to you, champion.

[@beaumains1969]

I think that these issues all stem from the deathrattle actually moving the card, if it read "shuffle a copy of this card into your opponent's deck" all these problems would go away, although it would subtract from the flavor of the card

[@snarf1851]

So the card is just poorly scripted.

[@Begeru]

The Soul of the Forest interaction is the strangest out of all of these. Entomb-ing a minion removes all buffs from it, but Weasel seems to have different coding. Also strange that the "summon a treant" effect is not "written" on the card. It also reminds me of how you could bounce an Unearthed Raptor to your hand, and when you resummon it keeps all deathrattles it previously acquired. Even though that other buffs are always lost when you bounce a minion back.

[@ShynyMagikarp]

I don't think the Soul of the Forest one is really that weird. Think about it like this. Deathrattles trigger in order played right? Just think about one person playing a sylvanas after the opponent played a sylvanas. Soul of the Forest doesn't trigger on your own weasel because t's own deathrattle triggers before soul of the forest deathrattle can. That being said, the cult master + hat interactions do not seem right to me whatsoever

[@frickckYTwhatswrongwmyusername]

Then the hat interaction makes no sense.

[@odedkhazon8542]

Actually, it makes a lot of sense when you think about it like this: The minion dies -> deathrattle triggers -> minion active effects detect death and determine whether it is friendly or not -> they trigger. So when the weasel dies, he is then moved to your deck, only AFTER this happens your minions that relate to minion death activate, and at this point the weasel is friendly, and so they detect his death (only know, because their process goes after the weasel's effects), and then they activate. The same idea works for entomb, when you entomb a minion, first the spell starts (the point where counterspell goes off), and then it does its effect, and only THEN do minions that interact with spell casting detect the thing relevant to them and activate/don't activate.

[@bajlajs2137]

But buffs doesn't stay once minion goes of the board and In this logic, Weasel deathrattle when killed on enemy side is again 1st to procc and the tree shouldn't apear

[@odedkhazon8542]

Baj Lajs However at this point the tree deathrattle is already part of the card, and no longer something that proccs after, it is now a part of the main deathrattle, instead of being a seperate effect, which is why that stays logical.

[@ShynyMagikarp]

Blue Banana You're right. Did I say it did make sense?

[@toadofsteel]

So as far as I can tell, the mechanics of the deathrattle are: 1) Switch to your side of the board. 2) Shuffle into deck. I feel as though the mechanical interaction should be "Deathrattle: Shuffle a copy of this minion into your opponent's deck", which is consistent with how Entomb works (Destroy target minion, shuffle a copy into your deck), as well as Doomcaller for C'Thun. If that were how the deathrattle is resolved: -Baron would shuffle 2 copies of Weasel into opponent's deck. -Soul of the Forest would trigger on death of the weasel. -N'Zoth would resummon a weasel that died on your side of the board, but not your opponent's. -Djinni's would actually shuffle into your opponent's deck (then again, the interaction with entomb was never fixed either).

[@seifenopa4706]

What happens with the unearthed Raptor interaction?

[@Kirby950]

Basti0108 nothing I believe

[@truthboom]

shuffle the raptor lol

[@seifenopa4706]

Blast King Only if the cardtext works exactly how it's written and we all know that's not always the case

[@Dredbot-hm7fr]

It actually shuffles the raptor in your opponents deck. If you add a baron rivendare, it will shuffle The raptor back into your deck.

[@Thariorn]

Whiles till having all Deathrattles? Man, that's some next level Deathrattlestacking right there

[@HoorenSan]

I'm not behaving strange, you are all not capable of my amazing abilities and can't comprehend my mindgames

[@gubaguy]

Jesus christ, its not that hard to properly program a game blizzard... Take 30 seconds, download MTGO, watch a few of those games, keeping in mind they have THOUSANDS of interactions that all work exactly how they are suppsoed to, and you only have a couple hundred.

[@martl8615]

MTGO is considered to be one of the most bug-ridden programs ever written. Please don't have Blizzard copy that...

[@gubaguy]

Bug ridden, but most of the cards work as intended, and when they dont, they get disabled in a timely manner to be fixed, and now they typically have sets fully tested before release to avoid huge bugs liek this. Theres no reason for a company that makes PC games to have such huge issues, there are inconsistencies everywhere that could be fixed with a single line of text, but naw, jsut dont be bothered to FIX THE PROBLEMS, jsut keep raking in the cash and bricking the game.

[@marsovac]

I play both and can say MTGO is far more buggy even in card interactions. They usually disable cards to fix them but it takes time. I prefer having a card with weird interactions if it doesn't break the game.

[@16SKB]

Seems like giving it a Dreadsteed treatment would fix it, so changing the text to:shuffle a Weasel Tunneler into your opponents deck

[@ketsen1171]

Weasel is just a meme card, who cares

[@jessicapatnode7103]

I think the soul of the forest interaction can make sense if you think about it right. It's about order. So the first go around, it dies and the first deathrattle on it gets priority (ie it's natural dr), so it goes in the deck. Once it's in the deck though, it stops checking deathrattles (similar to how a transform effect works), and ignores soul. Second go around, the soul dr was put on before the natural dr (on play), so it triggers. Why it's maintained after being thrown in the deck is anyone's guess, but I seem to recall Toast finding similar (weird) interactions before.

[@hubologist]

they are small indie company dont push them too hard..

[@ButNotMyWife]

hubologist Ben Brode is my daddy

[@frankbauerful]

They should just call it Burrowing Bug instead and they'll be able to deflect all complaints with:"It's an intentional bug."

[@Straddllw]

Why isn't this guy working for Blizzard?

[@Superbeamcz]

99 photo :D

[@CrimsonDude_]

Holy fuck... this is the first troll-image that actually made me question if that was real or not.

[@Broockle]

It's cause of images like yours that I got into the habit of swatting flies off my computer with my mouse first before actually using my hand xD

[@WaxxyOne]

My 2 cents: Weasel Tunneler's deathrattle effect only happens when he actually dies, which means he does actually die as confirmed by his triggering abilities from other minions such as Cult Master. To me, it would make more sense if everything that happens to him on death (other than his deathrattle) were to trigger first, while the board is in a logical state, and then after all that stuff has happened, his deathrattle puts him in your opponent's deck. So here's what would happen in that case with all the interactions in the video: Baron Rivendare: The 2 copies of the deathrattle trigger at the same time, but wait until all of the other on-death effects finish to execute. The result is two Tunnelers being shuffled into your opponent's deck. Explorer's Hat: The Hat deathrattle triggers while Tunneler is still yours, so it returns to your own hand. Soul of the Forest: The Soul deathrattle triggers first, and you get a Treant. The version shuffled into your opponent's deck is a normal Tunneler with no Soul effect on it (what happens now is clearly a bug) Reincarnate and Moat Lurker: The deathrattle shuffles a copy of Tunneler into your opponent's deck and the Tunneler later reappears where he was when he died (there's no reason he should become an enemy minion as that's not part of his deathrattle effect) Cult Master, Thermaplugg, etc: The minion should only count as a friendly death if he was on your side of the board when he died. Same thing goes for counting as an enemy death. Djinni: This really shouldn't work the way it does even if my change above is ignored -- Djinni's ability triggers when you CAST a spell, not when it finishes and takes effect. When you cast the spell, the Tunneler is CLEARLY an enemy minion, so Djinni's effect shouldn't trigger. Just because a result of the spell you cast is that the Tunneler dies, why should that cause the spell to be duplicated? It should already be way past the time for spell copying by that point. In my opinion these silly effects make an already pointless card even stupider. Oh and the deck display issue thing is clearly a bug and should be fixed.

[@alexanderbenkendorf688]

Toast go to work for blizzard QA team (srsly man)!

[@vengeanceiww2311]

Btw the soul of the forest interaction is on point as hell because it is the way it should be (such like 2 sylvanas) the first played deathrattle comes in first so he goes to the enemy's deck and this effect cannot let the second trigger (such as freezing trap and explosive trap if played in a correct order) so when the Weasel comes back the soul of the forest dr. is in play first so it will trigger it then goes to your deck. I think it seems weird but it is how it should be. Have a nice day if you read this whole text!

[@SmartThis]

explian the card please. why would it be good

[@rawovunlapin8201]

SmartThis by shuffling a weasel into your opponents deck it would make them more inconsistent, for each weasel in their deck there's a smaller chance they'd draw cards they'd actually want instead of a weasel.

[@usernamehyt]

when you discented it , you get dust , thats very good. I got a golden one and instant discented

[@scirrhia_kruden]

But weasels smell so nice. Why would you want to discent them?

[@6letterss]

Its to deliberately fill your opponents deck with shit if their deck is based on lategame or combo. Alot of non-shaman mid or late games end up with just drawing cards for you one "out", this gives them a less thin deck, a dead card. Of course, if you dont play it turn 1-2, its a dead card for you anyway

[@ghp0518]

One thing I can think of is ruining decks that rely on non duplicate cards (Reno decks) , but running 2 copies of this doesn't seem to justify this case. To be honest I don't even know why this card is epic quality.

[@imperiallarch7610]

I just understood why the Soul of the Forest one works and it blew my mind. Soul of the Forest has a special rule to ensure it triggers *after* the minion is removed from play, because if its effect resolved with the normal deathrattle timing the treants would be summoned before the dead minion was removed, and thus would often be lost to overfilling the board. The deathrattle triggers when Weasel dies, it waits for Weasel to be removed by the normal dead unit cleanup, but before that happens the Weasel is specially moved to the enemy deck by its other deathrattle. So the effect continues waiting until the Weasel dies a second time.

[@SarevokIX]

But why does it trigger the second time rather than just doing nothing like the first time.

[@adventure_skaut]

so this card kinda sucks

[@kurtlindner]

"so this card [still] kinda sucks"

[@tdc1237]

you forgot one, the unearthed raptor also has some interresting interactions

[@ModrunOfficial]

sponsored by skype lol skype is shit but ok u need money so its fine toast

[@KaelusVonSestiaf]

I think the Soul of the Forest interaction happens simply because of play order. You obviously play the weasel first, and then give it the soul of the forest deathrattle. The weasel's deathrattle was there first, so it triggers first, and since it is now a card and not a minion, soul of the forest doesn't trigger. BUT When you play the weasel a SECOND time, the soul of the forest death rattle was already there, it was there first. So it triggers first, and nothing stops the weasel's deathrattle from triggering.

[@Darkczarek]

I think that weasel counted as a friendly minion makes sense.

[@rickwoods5274]

It looks like "whenever a friendly minion dies" actually translates to "whenever a minion dies, if it IS friendly", and what it *should* translate to (IMO) is "whenever a minion dies, if it WAS friendly". Similarly, the phrase "cast a spell on a friendly minion" should refer to the owner at the time the spell was cast, not the owner at the time the effect is resolving (which "fixes" the Entomb/Djinni interaction). I can't possibly explain the Soul of the Forest interaction here, but it suffices to say that all deathrattle effects should queue at once, and the owner should be the player who owned the minion (in the battlefield, not in the graveyard). This also cleans up the Rivendare interaction. EDIT: Or do as another commenter suggests, and reword Tunneler's effect to "Deathrattle: Shuffle a copy of this card into your opponent's deck."

[@KaizokuChris_]

The interaction with soul of the forest is caused by the fact that the deathrattle of the minion goes into play first, which means the original deathrattle from the card would trigger first. When it's summoned by the opponent, the soul of the forest deathrattle is attached to the minion before the deathrattle of the card goes into play again, thus summoning the ent for your opponent

[@JetEriksen]

I can explain the soul of the forest one, basically it triggers weasels deathrattle first because i came into play first, but when the enemy has it the deathrattle works as intended because it was added before weasel was put onto the field.

[@okdmrz]

I have a possible reasoning about the soul of the forest interaction. Deathrattles occur in the order they are added to the minion: Weasel Tunneler is played, only has the tunneling deathrattle. When it dies with soul of the forest, it does first deathrattle, then it can't do any more of them because it is inside the deck. But it stores its remaining deathrattle. I believe this would also happen with ancestral spirit. When it is played again, it first has the soul of the forest, then tunneling deathrattle is added as the second deathrattle. So when it dies a second time, first soul of the forest is executed, then tunneling is executed so it goes into the other deck. Working as intended!

[@SyntheticaYT]

@Disguised Toast - I believe what's happening is that Entomb (and Weasel Tunneler) swap control of the minion first, then move it to the decks. Easy to test...have a Weasel Tunneler out, and have the opponent have a full board. I'm guessing when the Weasel dies, it's deathrattle won't trigger as the enemy's board is full and can't temporarily control it.

[@arrowbro]

Baron should shuffle 2 copies into your opponent's deck. Explorer's Hat should go back to your hand. Soul of the Forest should give you the treant, not your opponent. Reincarnate should leave it on the same side of the field it starts on, shuffling a copy into the opposing player's deck. Moat Lurker should resummon it on the side it started on. Cult Master & Co should treat it as friendly only when it's on your side, not the opponent's. Thermaplugg and the like should only treat it as an enemy when it's on the opponent's side.

[@Hogscraper]

The soul of the forest makes sense if you take Yogg into consideration. It seems like they want things to stop in their tracks if the instigator is removed from play. After the weasel's deathrattle fires its now considered in a deck and no longer dying so everything else just waits for the next death. It doesn't seem like a good mechanic, though, as nearly every use entails giving something to your opponent at your own expense.